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scruffziller
06-13-2002, 04:59 PM
Now this is no thread to bash the special effects of the OT. But just to somewhat point out the inconsistencies for the sake of.
I noticed that when Leia is shooting the Stormtroopers on the bridge up above them the sound effect is that of a gun from a western. Plus if you notice at the end of the first scene of Obi and Dart dueling, Obi does this swirling action with his lightsaber and the blade seems to disappear!!! Plus the point where Luke shoots the controls to the blast door that blocks off Vader from coming through, his lightsaber blade is more of the whiteish blue that his original was that Luke was carrying!! List more if you gotem!!!

JediTricks
06-14-2002, 01:52 AM
As for the gun sound effect, that wasn't in the original version, it was a normal blaster sound effect. Dunno why they changed it for the SE.

As for Obi-Wan's saber fizzling out, I always noticed that as a kid, apparently the saber blades in that film were rods with reflective tape on them that was originally supposed to be the ONLY effect, however Lucas didn't like how it looked and had the saber blades rotoscoped (drawn animation over normal film) in. However, I think they didn't rotoscope that scene and what we're seeing is the reflective tape.

It's this same rotoscoping that I think was missed on Vader's saber during that later scene, but it could simply be no color in the rotoscoping. The blade when Luke is saber training on the Falcon is also white.

Another FX goof is when Luke first turns on his saber, it's a cut-edit where I think they had Mark Hamill stand still while they swapped the "off" saber prop with the "on" version with the rod in it. It's close, but he hops over like half an inch.

Another is when Obi-Wan is by a door on the Death Star that opens. Since the doors on the set were opened much slower in the film, it was sped up by having some of the frames removed - but one of those frames is where Alec Guiness starts to blink. So in the film, we don't see Obi-Wan close his eyes during a blink, but we see him OPEN them!

bigbarada
06-14-2002, 10:23 AM
Geez and I thought I was picky with special effects.:eek:

I used to always think that Obi-Wan's saber "fizzling out" was a result of his "powers growing weak." Of course, the prequels have proven that one wrong.

During the Rebel Hangar scene in ROTJ, just before the big battle, you see that crappy matte painting of all the ships in the hangar and two techinicians walking up to an A-Wing. Well, if you look closely you'll notice that they don't have any feet! I guess ILM misaligned the live action with the matte painting slightly.

Oh yeah, the sound effect change on Leia's blaster was supposed to indicate that her blaster was set on full power. If you look closely, you can see her fiddling with the settings just before and just after those "shotgun blasts." JT, is right though, that sound effect didn't exist in the original version of Star Wars.

stillakid
06-14-2002, 10:33 AM
Beware of Tycho. He suddenly doesn't allow any critique of the movies like this. We might corrupt the "young viewers" here. :rolleyes:

For the most part, I think they fixed a lot of the original fx that didn't come off as hoped.

Of course, the Rancor matte lines are still there but the blue screen shots of Luke standing in front of the Rancor bother me a little more. He looks 3D but the background image looks too much like a rear projection.

But any of the older fx aren't so much "goofs" as limitations of the technology at that time, so it's hard to be critical of them. They did their best with what they had...and invented!

lunchymeatball
06-14-2002, 10:38 AM
I agree stillakid and have thought this for a while.I was surprised that the rancor went untouched when the other fx were tweaked. I would have thought that a digitally inserted rancor would have looked far far better.
Also another thing thing that could have been re vamped was the executor diving into the death star, the ship is immense but the explosion flames look way too big. Maybe a touch up like the two death star explosions would sort that out.

lunchymeatball
06-14-2002, 10:44 AM
Sorry that has got me thinking, if something the size of the executor crashed into the death star, wouldn't the death star get a bit dented:confused:

I imagine it might be a little heavy and would probably create quite a hole, all the damage happens to the executor.

stillakid
06-14-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by lunchymeatball
Sorry that has got me thinking, if something the size of the executor crashed into the death star, wouldn't the death star get a bit dented:confused:

I imagine it might be a little heavy and would probably create quite a hole, all the damage happens to the executor.

I just took a quick look at the Ship Size Comparisons in Star Wars Chronicles. The Executor is quite small next to the Death Star, so while it would indeed create quite a bit of localized damage, it doesn't appear that the structural integrity of the battle station would be compromised beyond the immediate area. But then again, what do I know? :rolleyes:

lunchymeatball
06-14-2002, 10:55 AM
What I mean is that it just explodes on the surface and doesn't appear to be carried by momentum into the death star.
I am just doing this on memory, so I could be wrong.

Darkross
06-14-2002, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
Of course, the Rancor matte lines are still there but the blue screen shots of Luke standing in front of the Rancor bother me a little more. He looks 3D but the background image looks too much like a rear projection.

This still bothers me too...but what bugs me more is on the SE widescreen video for ESB they talk about the matt lines and the trouble they had with the Hoth scene...and they refer to the RANCOR scene in ROTJ...but they never fixed it in ROTJ SE. That's what really bugs me!

stillakid
06-14-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by lunchymeatball
What I mean is that it just explodes on the surface and doesn't appear to be carried by momentum into the death star.
I am just doing this on memory, so I could be wrong.

I believe that the shot cuts away shortly after the fireball envelopes the ship. So for an instant, the ship is obscured as well as any sense of it's forward motion. Then we cut away to Ackbar I believe without seeing the damage through to it's end.

For an "enhanced" redo of that shot, it would be pretty cool if we saw the Executor break apart just like that Federation Trade Ship did at the end of TPM. But that's just gravy and would be a gratuitous lingering on an fx shot like Lucas used to be against. :)

bigbarada
06-14-2002, 11:42 AM
Ever notice how far away the battle seems to be taking place in the Emperor's throne room? Then when you look at the battle from the outside the Death Star is almost right in the middle of things? If the Executor was damaged that far away from the DS2, then I think Endor's gravity would have much more influence on it than the Death Star's.

The more I think about it the more I realize that the Special Effects, flawed as they were, are much more impressive to watch than anything seen in the prequels. Just knowing how much was required to make one ship look like it was flying through space in those days, makes the ROTJ final battle one of the most impressive effects sequences I've ever seen.

With the prequels, everything is so easy now with CG that just having a pretty effects shot is no longer all that impressive or interesting.

stillakid
06-14-2002, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
The more I think about it the more I realize that the Special Effects, flawed as they were, are much more impressive to watch than anything seen in the prequels. Just knowing how much was required to make one ship look like it was flying through space in those days, makes the ROTJ final battle one of the most impressive effects sequences I've ever seen.

With the prequels, everything is so easy now with CG that just having a pretty effects shot is no longer all that impressive or interesting.


I was thinking about that the other day in regards to Citizen Kane and Contact. The shot in CK that "flies through the skylight" was one of those classic "how'd they do that?" shots at the time.

Since then, tons of movies have a shot like that. Specifically in Contact, the camera really appears to go backward through a window as they added reflections and such to the "glass." But somehow, it isn't as impressive a shot anymore, knowing just how simply it can be done nowadays.

A large part of the fun of movies for me is/was seeing a seemingly "impossible" shot and trying to figure out how they pulled it off. The newer films don't spark that kind of curiousity as the answer is usually the inevitable "CG." Oh well. :)

bigbarada
06-14-2002, 12:58 PM
Now that nothing is impossible for movie studios when it come to effects, I guess that means that movies will once again be graded on the quality of their story and performances and the strength of the writer's vision.

scruffziller
06-14-2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Geez and I thought I was picky with special effects.:eek:

I used to always think that Obi-Wan's saber "fizzling out" was a result of his "powers growing weak." Of course, the prequels have proven that one wrong.

During the Rebel Hangar scene in ROTJ, just before the big battle, you see that crappy matte painting of all the ships in the hangar and two techinicians walking up to an A-Wing. Well, if you look closely you'll notice that they don't have any feet! I guess ILM misaligned the live action with the matte painting slightly.

Oh yeah, the sound effect change on Leia's blaster was supposed to indicate that her blaster was set on full power. If you look closely, you can see her fiddling with the settings just before and just after those "shotgun blasts." JT, is right though, that sound effect didn't exist in the original version of Star Wars.
You know what I thought the exact same thing, his powers are getting weak. It's weird how us SW geeks think all alike:D Thanx for the extra easter egg hunt and clarifications.:)

scruffziller
06-14-2002, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
Beware of Tycho. He suddenly doesn't allow any critique of the movies like this. We might corrupt the "young viewers" here. :rolleyes:

For the most part, I think they fixed a lot of the original fx that didn't come off as hoped.

Of course, the Rancor matte lines are still there but the blue screen shots of Luke standing in front of the Rancor bother me a little more. He looks 3D but the background image looks too much like a rear projection.

But any of the older fx aren't so much "goofs" as limitations of the technology at that time, so it's hard to be critical of them. They did their best with what they had...and invented!
I understand and I am not trying to say anything to belittle, it's just funny stuff. Kind of like when we were playing old Nintendo games and we were able to do things that we could do that were not suppose to happen, like in a a baseball game, the players should not have been able to walk out into the audience and walk all over them or Mario get stuck in a wall.

JediTricks
06-15-2002, 03:59 AM
BB, are you sure the gun isn't just because they looped they original sound of the blank cartridge that was recorded on the set? It definitely is a blank because you can see a shell pop out and it IS a gun ;) and there's a lot of recoil, so I always thought it was "the wrong soundtrack". I'm gonna ask this one on the official site, I *gotta* know now. :D


The rancor bothers me not just because of the matte lines, but also the poor quality of the image compositing - Luke is a faded image while the Rancor is a clear image. This makes the compositing stand out like a sore thumb, lighting should ALWAYS match.

ROTJ seems really sloppy at times, when the TIE Fighters are flying towards the DS2 in the beginning, they just "popped" out of existence. Later, during the space battle, the TIE Interceptors flying towards the Falcon merely popped into existence this same way.

Strangely, all 3 of the CT suffers from a similar "pop" effect, whenever a scene wipes or cuts to a space shot, some of the foreground stars and lights on stuff like Star Destroyers aren't there for a quarter of a second, and then they pop in.

DeadEye
06-16-2002, 08:58 PM
Watch the little effects-change documentary on the ESB SE. They said how on the interior views of the snowspeeder cockpits, you could see the outside through the solid parts of the cockpit. They said they fixed it, but when you watch the movie you can still see the AT-AT's legs through the control panel!

scruffziller
06-17-2002, 12:10 PM
WELL WELL!!! It seems that the SE wasn't so special after all. Like in the commentary when Lucas says they removed the wheels from the speeder by fudgeing them out with vaseline on the lens and jokingly called it the force field and took that out. You would have thought he would have fixed the Obi Wan lightsaber scene as well but he didn't, he left that to our imagination as well.

JediTricks
06-17-2002, 05:03 PM
Oh yeah, absolutely, Star Wars is great yet not perfect, but the Special Editions ain't THAT special. :D The SE project originally started when Lucasfilm found out that the vaults storing the original prints of the trilogy were letting those prints age and decay - since these were the originals, Lucas decided to undergo a huge process to restore the prints to their original image quality before they were too far gone. Once in there, Lucas said to himself something like "I want to fix some of these things on ANH that bothered me and limited the film 17 years ago" and started monkeying with things like the landspeeder (which, IMO, the SEs cut off the bottom of too much in a few shots) and then Jabba and the others. Only once they were deep into this did they decide to also monkey around with ESB and ROTJ; even though those 2 really didn't have the same problems that ANH had, Lucas wanted to make them 'special' too.

So, what originally began as a process to salvage the films for future posterity eventually turned into a quest that had the OPPOSITE effect.

LTBasker
06-17-2002, 06:11 PM
One thing I don't get is if they had the money, then why did they use CGI to make Jabba for the SE, why not make the basic outline of it using CGI like what we saw in the SE, then use a green screen stage and make a puppet of a "younger" Jabba and re-enact the scene on there then use digital tech to make it look like Han still steps over the tail of the puppet? Jabba just didn't seem to look right in the SE of ANH.

JediTricks
06-17-2002, 07:03 PM
I think Lucas was just enamored with the computer technology of the time. :D

LTBasker
06-17-2002, 07:08 PM
More like addicted... ;)

Jedi Learner
06-18-2002, 04:27 PM
From what I understand, the sound effect of Leia's gun was in the original mono soundtrack of the film released in '77, but NOT in the stereo and subsequent home video mixes. When the SE was put together, Ben Burtt culled together sounds from all the mixes and the "bang" sound effect found its way back in there (just like the "close the blast doors" line, which has been absent from video for years).

Jay Pennington has put together a fantastic analysis of the overall changes (sound and otherwise) made to the SE's at his website:

http://www.jax-inter.net/users/datalore/starwars/

It's worth a look!

JediTricks
06-18-2002, 05:50 PM
I've got the stereo mixed THX tape and it's the blaster there, I'm told it's also the blaster on the laser disc, which is stereo too. So confusing, what is it about Lucas not being able to meet a deadline on time with SW movies? He did it with ANH, with Ep 1, and again with Ep 2.

That "close the blast doors" line is an enigma, the link you provided isn't 100% positive since it's in Spanish, but the line appears in the ANH script. However, in the Special Edition, it's clearly NOT the same stormtrooper saying "close the blast doors", and it sounds like it was recorded at a much later date with better equipment than the original "open the blast doors, open the blast doors!"

scruffziller
06-18-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
I've got the stereo mixed THX tape and it's the blaster there, I'm told it's also the blaster on the laser disc, which is stereo too. So confusing, what is it about Lucas not being able to meet a deadline on time with SW movies? He did it with ANH, with Ep 1, and again with Ep 2.

That "close the blast doors" line is an enigma, the link you provided isn't 100% positive since it's in Spanish, but the line appears in the ANH script. However, in the Special Edition, it's clearly NOT the same stormtrooper saying "close the blast doors", and it sounds like it was recorded at a much later date with better equipment than the original "open the blast doors, open the blast doors!"
SW is on LASER DISK??!!!:greedy:

Jedi Learner
06-19-2002, 01:46 PM
JT, the "blast doors" line appears with the exact same voice as the one heard in the SE on the "Story of Star Wars" LP released around '78 (which was put together with actual dialogue and sound effects from the movie). That means it had at least been recorded back then. I remember it distinctly because I listened to that record as a kid until I virtually wore it out, and when I saw the movie again on HBO in the early '80s, I was surprised that the "close the blast doors" line wasn't in there.

stillakid
06-19-2002, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Jedi Learner
JT, the "blast doors" line appears with the exact same voice as the one heard in the SE on the "Story of Star Wars" LP released around '78 (which was put together with actual dialogue and sound effects from the movie). That means it had at least been recorded back then. I remember it distinctly because I listened to that record as a kid until I virtually wore it out, and when I saw the movie again on HBO in the early '80s, I was surprised that the "close the blast doors" line wasn't in there.

Hmm, I just so happened to have that somewhere around here. I'll try to dig it out of the "archives" and give it a listen.

wedgeA
06-19-2002, 06:46 PM
I agree that the Rancor should have been upgraded, and why not correct the Emperor from ESB? Well, hopefully they'll work on it for the "ultimate editions"

scruffziller,
I am not sure if you're joking, but the OT has been released numerous times on the format, a couple of the releases (Definitive, SE) are some of the format's best offerings. With Lucas unabashed support of LD, one has to wonder why he hasn't embraced DVD, with at least a bare bones release until the saga is completed. Consider that the OT by my count, has about seven different releases on LD.

wedgeA
06-19-2002, 06:47 PM
Man, how long until I ditch the moisture farmer tag?!?!?!

scruffziller
06-19-2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by wedgeA
Man, how long until I ditch the moisture farmer tag?!?!?!
Until you reach 75 posts.

JediTricks
06-20-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Jedi Learner
JT, the "blast doors" line appears with the exact same voice as the one heard in the SE on the "Story of Star Wars" LP released around '78 (which was put together with actual dialogue and sound effects from the movie). That means it had at least been recorded back then. I remember it distinctly because I listened to that record as a kid until I virtually wore it out, and when I saw the movie again on HBO in the early '80s, I was surprised that the "close the blast doors" line wasn't in there. That's weird, the script makes it seem like they're supposed to be the same dude. Is it possible that the "close the blast doors" was done FOR the record and then ported over to the SE? I wanna find this album now... so strange, this is.

LTBasker
06-20-2002, 01:51 AM
Hmm... in all the copies I've had, I remember always laughing at the dude saying "Close the blast doors!" then him shouting "Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!" :D

bigbarada
06-20-2002, 12:23 PM
I always assumed the guy who said "close the blast doors" was a different person than the one who said "open the blast doors." It just makes more sense that way.

Just like the "That's impossible! Even for a computer!" guy was supposed to be Wedge in the script; but he is obviously a totally different person.

stillakid
06-20-2002, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
I always assumed the guy who said "close the blast doors" was a different person than the one who said "open the blast doors." It just makes more sense that way.

Just like the "That's impossible! Even for a computer!" guy was supposed to be Wedge in the script; but he is obviously a totally different person.

I agree totally with that. And, when do we get the action figure of "That's impossible"-guy? :)

bigbarada
06-20-2002, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by stillakid


I agree totally with that. And, when do we get the action figure of "That's impossible"-guy? :)

And they could name him "Tatsin Pozzbul" :rolleyes::D

jjreason
06-21-2002, 04:44 PM
I've been watching ESB quite a bit lately. One thing that gets me is the lightsabre ignition sound when Luke leaves the wampa cave. The blade was lit, he cuts off the arm, the arm falls, and it cuts to Luke climbing up the hill out of the cave. The saber ignition sound goes again but the sabre's been out the whole time. Weird.

notafinga
06-25-2002, 02:58 AM
And while they're correcting the visually awful Rancor scenes, how about fixing the stop-motion running Taun-Taun scenes, as well?

And also for the revamped editions, take the 'Greedo shooting first' garbage out of the Cantina forever.