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View Full Version : "Hit and Miss"- what's NOT working in AOTC



JEDIpartner
09-26-2001, 08:43 AM
Everyday, like religion, I log onto the internet and read some of the stuff on <theforce.net> before heading over here to Sir Steve's Guide. There's usually not too much going on there other than some random spoiler news and updates. Sometimes those spoilers and notes are pretty interesting. Someone posted an article entitled "Hit and Miss". It talked about some of the things that are and AREN'T working for AOTC. It was said that the fight scenes are great, but the love story is contrived and laughable. I have included a link to this story for those who would like to read this and put a post up regarding this news.

http://www.theforce.net/episode2/index.html#12413

Some of this information gives me cause to worry... considering the love story is one of the key elements to the future of Anakin and Padme- not to mention Luke and Leia!!

Please read and let's discuss!!!

Rollo Tomassi
09-26-2001, 08:53 AM
It seems to me the relationship between ObiWan and Anakin is abrasive, even after 10 years. In the OT, Ben always said they were good friends, but from what I've seen and read, these two have an antagonistic relationship of scolding teacher and petulent student. Whether this turns out to be a "hit" or a "miss" remains to be seen...

bigbarada
09-26-2001, 09:18 AM
I kind of expect the Anakin/Padme relationship to be about as realistic as an episode of Dawson's Creek, thus it's not the area of the film I'm most interested in. It'll probably appeal to more pre-teen girls than anyone else. I just want to see these fight scenes this guy is describing. Plus, the political intrigue stuff will be really cool if it's at least as good as TPM. GL seems to know his history, since you can see parallels to real world events in all his films. However, his people skills are somewhat lacking, which explains the bland characters in his latest films.

JEDIpartner
09-26-2001, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
...I just want to see these fight scenes this guy is describing. Plus, the political intrigue stuff will be really cool if it's at least as good as TPM. GL seems to know his history, since you can see parallels to real world events in all his films.

I completely agree with you about the fight scenes. I'm sure the staging and choreography is going to be nothing less than stellar! I also agree with you about the political intrigue stuff. I know a lot of my friends didn't get the whole trade embargo angle of TPM. I told them all... look- conflicts usually arise out of things such as trade embargoes and it makes perfect sense for a politician such as Palpatine to get a foothold in such a situation. a year later, when the video came out... they agree with me. :D

So, yes... I, too, am looking forward to the political angle. I just hope the characters aren't as colourless this time around!! (praying):(

Jargo
09-26-2001, 01:59 PM
conflicts usually arise out of things such as trade embargoes

Look at the first world war, started because someone owed someone else a bundle of telegraph poles or something equally turgid and pathetic. My worry is that the dialogue will be as confounding as TPM and not be intelligable to twelve year olds. Cuz Lucas makes these movies for twelve year olds right? Okay then. So what the hell was all that Palpatine dialogue about in TPM? How many twelve year olds could fathom that yawn making mouthful? Cool for adults who have some point of reference but twelve year olds? Nah, don't think so George. Who cares about the love story anyway? A sulking Jedi cultist with a vegetable fetish.... sorry couldn't resist that one - I mean the whole point is to cut to the chase and get into the saber battles and shoot outs. That's what folk want out of star wars, with a few nifty links to the OT that aren't trite and contrived like the starfighter to destroyer link thing. Like I've said many times before there's no logic in basing the aircraft carrier on the aircraft it carries. Would the Navy have a ship based on an F-15 fighter plane? No they wouldn't. Stoopid stoopid stoopid design thinking. But then again, the entire thinking behind all the science and technology of star wars is stoopid and would never work in the real world. Anyway back to the point - Every star wars film has had bad sections and vignettes of cringe making awfulness that have had critics reaching for the vitriol pens. So why should this movie be any different? Relying so heavily on CGI can only have some drawbacks despite the freedom it gives the film maker and his financiers. Giving second rate actors nothing to act against for the whole shoot is like asking for wooden performances at the outset. Stilted dialogue only makes things seem even more lacklustre. But what are these films anyway, Performance driven pieces or effects driven pieces? Does the performance matter anymore in this high expectancy audience age? All folk really want is a gun a cool ship and a fight to the death with a chick thrown in for good measure. That in a nutshell is the root of most films these days and as such that is why most films suck. The only thing that seperates a star wars from other films is the attention to background detail and design. Oh and the brand name.
Not that I'm saying I don't like star wars, rather that I'm just trying to be realistic and subjective (note 'TRYING' to be ) Maybe there are a lot of you who will disagree wildly but hey, it's just an opinion and you can always just stick me in your ignore list if you disagree to the point of exception. :)

JEDIpartner
09-26-2001, 03:07 PM
Now why would we do that Jargo? I, for one, am getting quite fond of your periodic rants! :rolleyes: :p :D

INDIANA
09-26-2001, 06:35 PM
I personally don't think Lucas is a "polished" writer. He admits that a lot of the basics in his storyline come from the Joseph Campbell "Power of Myth" areas....he has the basics of GREAT storytelling down pat.....BUT.....in fine detail areas such as in-depth character development and the intricascies(?) of a love story.....well...."I love you!"....."I know"....may be the best we can hope for. He was probably smart to bring in a co-writer, but , really, who the hell is actually going to have any balls to tell him "that really sucks". Obviously no one did with the title!!!
I agree with the report....we will see GREAT action and GREAT special effects...as long as we're not looking for details we won't be disappointed.

bigbarada
09-26-2001, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by INDIANA
.....BUT.....in fine detail areas such as in-depth character development and the intricascies(?) of a love story.....well...."I love you!"....."I know"....may be the best we can hope for.

Actually, Harrison Ford made up the "I know" part on the set. Kirschner wasn't happy with the scripted response of "I love you, too" and asked Ford to come up with something more Han Solo-ish in response. But I understand what you're trying to say, INDIANA.

INDIANA
09-27-2001, 07:45 AM
"I love you, too."

This just, unfortunately, justifies my point even more......

bigbarada
09-27-2001, 08:58 AM
I think we need Irvin Kirshner back. He wasn't afraid to shake things up and change stuff he didn't like. Plus, he said in an Insider interview that he would love to direct another Star Wars film.

JediTricks
09-27-2001, 10:21 AM
I thought WW1 was started over the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand of Austria, which was brought about by a large amount of socio-economic problems of the 19th century in Europe.

Anyway, there are a ton of bells and sirens going off in my head right now all saying "I have a very bad feeling about this!"

Jargo
09-27-2001, 01:57 PM
Really, they assasinated the Archduke? Well who'da thunk it... :) I meant WWII not WWI. DOH! No matter, it's all water under the bridge now. Just a few thousand dead folk or somethin'..... Didn't someone drop a big city obliteratin' bomb sometime round then? Maybe that was just in a movie I saw...... Fact and fiction, fact and fiction. Funny how the two get so mixed up via Hollywood and Blockbuster video rentals......

What was the point of this thread again? Oh yeah. Big turkies at the box office time again. Seems strange to me that this 'preview' of AOTC that was posted at TFN contradicts completely what the official sources are saying about Hayden and Natalie 'sizzling' on screen together. Although this contradiction was more concerned with dialogue than actions or emotions. So who cares about the dialogue when there's two young hotties gettin' it on for all to watch? I know I won't be listenin' to what they say to each other.
It also seems like all the stars are jumping on the bandwagon in dissin' star wars and Lucas. Anthony daniels saying how he doesn't like Jar Jar and thinks the whole saga has been over commercialised. Hmmm, shouldn't he be working to publicise this film and foster good will toward it? Shouldn't he and Ewan McGregor be saying good things about a movie that is gonna make them money? If the rats are leaving the ship it doesn't bode well for episode three. Are these people going to be so sick of star wars we will get some sad and tired and lazy film that acts as the segue into the OT? Food for thought, food for thought....

bigbarada
09-27-2001, 06:31 PM
Why are these people so worried about the love story portion of EP2? I think we should all look back at two other "laughable and contrived" love stories from the past:

Romeo and Juliet (the Shakespearean play, not the Leo movie)
Titanic (crappy love story=biggest box office success of all time)

At least Star Wars will have some cool fight scenes and peachy-keen aliens to distract us from the romantic side. (Well, Titanic did have that little side-story thing with the boat; but you get the idea.) So just sit down, shut up and enjoy the movie!:p

Utinni
09-27-2001, 07:38 PM
"turgid" Good word use.

Han's response to "I love you." was "Just remember that 'cause I'll be back." thank god Harry changed it.

I seem to remember, Harrison being disgruntled about the OT and his performance in ROJ is reflective of this. I hope we don't see the same kind of performance from Ewan in Episode III. I hope he has a better work ethic and turns in a magnificent performance in III despite what he might think is hokum.

Who dropped a bomb where?

bigbarada
09-29-2001, 12:50 AM
Well, at least no one can say that fans' expectations of Ep2 were too high; since many here seem to think the movie is going to suck. Which begs the question: If you have such low expectations for the movie, then why are you here?

Me, I think this will be the best movie of 2002, no matter how crappy it is!;)

GNT
09-29-2001, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Well, at least no one can say that fans' expectations of Ep2 were too high; since many here seem to think the movie is going to suck. Which begs the question: If you have such low expectations for the movie, then why are you here?

Me, I think this will be the best movie of 2002, no matter how crappy it is!;)

I think Attack Of The Clones is going to rock,probably the best movie of the lot :) Yes really, It could be up there with "The Empire Strikes Back".

Eternal Padawan
09-29-2001, 09:32 AM
I think our expectations for Episode 1 were way too high, and our expectations for this one have been tempered by E1's letdown. So when we walk out of E2, we will be pleasantly suprised by how good it really was.

JediTricks
09-29-2001, 12:22 PM
I'm here because we don't have an Ep 2 moderator yet.

Jargo
09-29-2001, 02:31 PM
I'm here because I can be. I'm here because I offer a black to your white and a red to your yellow. I'm here because I care about what Lucas is doing to the story I grew up with and don't much want to see him screw things up because he feels he has to finish it. I'd rather he didn't bother if he can't do it justice. I'm here because if all anyone ever said here was positive it would be the most sacharin of glee clubs going and would rot your teeth with sweetness and mutual appreciation ickyness. I'm here because my outrageous opinions temper that sacharin pukedom and give more than one dimension to the discussion. What's your excuse?

bigbarada
09-29-2001, 03:19 PM
I'm here cuz I want to be spoiled!:D

GNT
09-30-2001, 12:23 AM
If you need a Ep 2 moderator you know where to look ;) :D

Eternal Padawan
09-30-2001, 12:50 AM
I'm here because the SirStevesGuide to Tales of the Gold Monkey forums aren't up and running yet....:rolleyes:

JEDIpartner
10-01-2001, 10:52 AM
Oooh...! Stephen Collins... post STAR TREK: tmp and pre 7th HEAVEN... classic... :rolleyes:

What have I started here??? :eek:

Fulit
10-01-2001, 10:56 AM
The supposed return of battledroids and the Nemoidians isn't working for me. I know they're necessary, it just seems boring, the way it seemed boring to me about the Death Star 2. (another Death Star? How original!)

Jargo
10-02-2001, 03:38 PM
I was rather hoping for some more battle droid humour. "Cover me" "Roger roger." Classic lines! If this rumour of 3PO using a blaster is true I won't be happy. It's a weak idea to use 3PO this way and smacks of those early marvel comics and the crap stories they had in them. But I'm really starting to lose interest in the prequels and the story. I listened to the score of Jedi today and knew where each piece of music fitted the filn without looking at the CD sleeve. And I've only seen Jedi a handful of times over the years. I listen to the ep1 score and I haven't got the foggiest where I am because there are no memorable moments from the movie. I suspect that ep2 will be the same.

INDIANA
10-03-2001, 06:55 PM
I watched the Special Edition of RTJ today including the documentary in the begining.

For better or worse, however we feel, as the documentary said this is George's vision, not anyone elses. He has the money and power to do WHATEVER he wants. If EII sucks....think he won't do EIII? I think the ONLY person he is trying to make happy is himself. He is making the movies for himself and he'll damn well do whatever he pleases.

We all have our own ideas about what should happen, who we like and who we don't, whether Padme turns out to be Mon Mothma or dies, George really doesn't care.

Has Lucas ever done anything to appease the fans OR get thier input? How long did we complain when Hasblow was screwing up the POTF line and LFL did nothing?

We are pawns......