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View Full Version : Pass to five others -- DO NOT BUY AIR TIX W/AIRLINE W/NO LOCKED PILOT DOOR



erikbeckjord
09-26-2001, 02:36 PM
:mad:

pass this to five others.

If you fly, avoid any airline that has no locked pilot door, and do fly on those who do.

Loss of income will FORCE airlines to put locks
on pilots doors.

TELL FIVE, ADD TO LISTS, AND THE WHOLE WORLD WILL
KNOW IN THREE DAYS.

Erik Beckjord,MBA, SF,CA
security consultant.
415-974-4339

Eternal Padawan
09-26-2001, 03:37 PM
What good does a lock do if the pilot unlocks it to come and see why or who is slitting his flight attendant's throats with a box cutter?

Plus, the terrorists were also threatening with a bomb they may or may not have had. but who is going to bother leaving a door locked when they are just going to blow up the plane anyway?Remember, at this point, no one knew the plane's final destination. They thought it was a "normal" hijacking, not a suicide run. And if you thought it was a "normal" hijacking, you'd be more willing to comply seeing as how there's a better chance of surviving. Now that people know the terrorist might crash into a building, both the pilots AND the passengers might be more willing to gang rush the terrorists in order to prevent MORE people dying. At that point a lock becomes irrelevant.


I don't think I will forward this to anybody because a doorlock seems a kneejerk response to the problem. A terrorist shouldn't even get through airport security. Getting through the locked cockpit door would be #157 on the terrorist list of things to do. if he's already accomplished the other 156 and gotten to the locked door, then you've got problems regardless of whether the cockpit is locked or not.

El Chuxter
09-26-2001, 04:20 PM
So, uh, how do we know which airlines have locks and which don't? Are we supposed to call up the airline and say, "Hi, I'm wondering if your doors lock," and expect them to say, "Why, no, they don't."

And if I were to find out that an airplane lacked certain security features I'd consider minimal (like door locks), I don't think I need to be told not to fly with them. :)

The idea is a good one, but I agree with EP that the hijackers shouldn't be on the plane in the first place. I also expect the feds will step in sometime soon (if they haven't already) and require such locks in the very near future.

master jedi
09-26-2001, 04:46 PM
If you call up different airlines asking if they have locks on the doors they might consider you some sort of terrorist. I know I would.

If the doors do have locks don't you think the terrorists would find some way to pick the lock or break the door down?

Jedi Clint
09-26-2001, 04:59 PM
I'm certain there are ways of making the door to the cabin secure.

Mandalorian Candidat
09-27-2001, 10:30 AM
pass this to five others.

If you post on Internet forums, avoid any website that has no means to keep idiots from posting on them, and do frequent on those who do.

Loss of site hits will FORCE websites to put locks
on their user registrations.

TELL FIVE, ADD TO LISTS, AND THE WHOLE WORLD WILL
KNOW IN THREE DAYS.

Mandalorian Candidat,BFD, Orem,UT
SSG security consultant.
800-GET-BENT

SirSteve
09-27-2001, 02:05 PM
They need to make planes with NO access to the cockpit through the passenger end.

master jedi
09-27-2001, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by SirSteve
They need to make planes with NO access to the cockpit through the passenger end.

Interesting but the hijackers could communicate with the pilots somehow and make them fly somewhere else other than intended or they'll start to harm the passengers.

Jedi Clint
09-27-2001, 02:46 PM
Even if they could communicate with the pilots, the pilots would not fly the plane into a building because the hijackers are threatening to injure or kill passengers.

Utinni
09-27-2001, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by SirSteve
They need to make planes with NO access to the cockpit through the passenger end.

What if something happens (besides a terrorist incident) and the pilots need to get in to the main passenger area? or god forbid something happens to the pilots and a passenger (a doctor for instance) needs to get to the cockpit? So, everybody is screwed?

"Uhhhh..This is the captain speaking. I'm having a heart attack and the planes gonna crash, could somebody come up here and...never mind... see you all on on the other side...."

master jedi
09-27-2001, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Jedi Clint
Even if they could communicate with the pilots, the pilots would not fly the plane into a building because the hijackers are threatening to injure or kill passengers.

But hijackers aren't always going to fly into buildings. They might just want to hold the people for ransom. If they were planning to crash the plane they were gonna get killed anyway if the pilots didn't cooperate.

bigbarada
09-27-2001, 08:16 PM
It seems that what is happening to that once you are on a plane your life is secondary to people on the ground. Bush has given orders to Air Force Generals that if any plane appears to be threatening anybody on the ground then they are allowed to shoot it down. The passengers on the plane would just be written off as "acceptable losses." Does anyone else see the inherent problems in this? I don't want some 'yes-man' old fart, who has never known anything but military life, deciding which American citizens should be sacrificed for the greater good.

Kind of makes you want to swear off airplanes forever.

Jedi Clint
09-27-2001, 11:21 PM
If flying means that one must accept the possibility that they could be taken hostage, or be shot down if the plane they're on becomes a threat to civilians on the ground, then they can either accept those circumstances or take an alternative form of transportation. I am not sure who should decide whether to destroy a plane that is going to be used as a weapon of mass destruction similar to the way planes were used on Sept. 11th, but the reality of doing nothing to stop this from happening has cemented the need for open dialogue on the subject.

I don't know what protocol for dealing with a hijacker's demands dictates. There are people who make it their business to know.

There are also co-pilots who are capable of taking over if the pilot becomes incapacitated. I have seen no reason not to secure the door to the cabin.

It all comes down to increasing security at ground level in an effort to negate use of protocol once a plane is in the air.

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
09-29-2001, 10:40 AM
I think that locked secure cockpit doors, more air marshals, and an increased seizure in keychain knives, box cutters, toe-nail clippers, etc. may be somewhat effective, but terrorists as they always do, will find some new way to adapt to all these security changes. Whether it's having a remote controlled device that will take over the control of the planes (a scary thought, not sure if it could exist though), or something else, terrorists will find some new way.

The problem with these changes is that they are addressing the last breaches of security on September 11. Soon enough, these uncivilized people will find a new hole, exploit it, and then again we'll adapt. But we have to try to be a step ahead of the terrorists, however hard that may be, to prevent any more senseless tragedy.