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Jek Porky 2002
06-22-2002, 06:45 AM
I know that with alot of people, ROTJ (apart from TPM) is thier worst star wars movie, I don't feel this way, I like it just as much, but the only thing that I do really, really hate, no loath, about it is the way that the Ewoks throw rocks at the Storm Troopers head and kill them, these suits are disigned to protect them from blaster fire to a certain extent, so why do rocks hurt them, what do you think?

bigbarada
06-22-2002, 12:03 PM
Some of those were pretty big rocks. I think if I was wearing a construction helmet and someone dropped a 20 pound rock on my head from 15 feet it would knock me unconscious. And keep in mind that just because those helmets can protect from blaster fire doesn't mean that they can withstand an impact. The protection from blaster fire is probably due to their finish and their ability to reflect light and probably has little to do with sturdy construction.

Besides they didn't really do so well against blaster fire anyway, so if they failed at what they were designed for then what makes you think they would excell at something they weren't designed for?

LTBasker
06-22-2002, 12:25 PM
The Stormtrooper armor seems to just be for intimidation and cheaply made since they rely on numbers to get a job done - not the protection of one "insignificant" minion.

Plus how do you know they weren't knocked out then used for the celebration banquet? :D Or given a nice long setence in a cell block...

Exhaust Port
06-22-2002, 07:30 PM
Well we know that the Stormtrooper helmet can withstand a blow from a door as in ANH. :)

LTBasker
06-22-2002, 07:46 PM
I dunno, did anyone spot a Frankenstien sized Stormtrooper with a dent in his helmet? :D

jjreason
06-23-2002, 08:11 AM
I don't feel that the whole Endor battle is portrayed just right. Seeing the Ewoks crush the speeder with the two logs is one of my all time favorite movie moments, but I agree about the rocks. I wish that GL would change this sequence a little, and make the Ewoks way more vicious. I saw an old trading card at one point with an Ewok lunging over a log at a biker scout with his dagger drawn. Perfect. The story with that card, however, was about the changed version that showed the same Ewok w/o the knife. I don't think GL wanted them portrayed as vicious killers for fear of scaring the kids away (after luring them in so well with Wicket). It would make more sense if they were attacking with a little more urgency. During that same sequence, I also thought the arrows appear to be coming in slow enough to catch. Maybe they'll speed them up for the next version, and possibly make a few stick instead of bouncing off like spitballs.

bigbarada
06-23-2002, 10:54 AM
From what I've read, GL supervised very closely the entire Endor battle, thus as is his style, it became nothing but one gag after another. The same style he originally used for the Death Star escape in ANH, but a very non-amused studio prompted him to edit out many of the "jokes." (for instance, whenever our band of heroes would come upon a group of Imperials they would put their weapons behind their backs and start whistling while looking up at the ceiling; thus the troopers would pass them on by and not pay them any notice, even though they were supposed to be searching for them:rolleyes: )

Of course, George didn't want the Ewoks to be portrayed too viciously in order to keep the kiddie feel; but I also think he was thinking about his career after Jedi and thought it would be much easier to market the Ewoks later if he kept them cute in the movie. However, now that there is no chance for marketability, I think they should dig out all those old Ewok and Imperial costumes and reshoot many sequences to make the battle seem a bit less contrived. I don't mind the arrows or rocks dropped from a distance or any of the ways used to take out the Speeder Bikes and AT-STs; but scenes where the Stormtroopers are shooting at our heroes and the Ewoks come up behind them tapping them with rocks on sticks and the Stormtroopers cry out in pain? Stuff like that has got to go.

DeadEye
06-23-2002, 12:56 PM
Or the simple fact that those little teddy bears defeated soldiers in unarmed hand-to-hand combat. :rolleyes:

bigbarada
06-23-2002, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by DeadEye
Or the simple fact that those little teddy bears defeated soldiers in unarmed hand-to-hand combat. :rolleyes:

But that was the whole point of the Ewok battle. To show how a primitive army could so utterly and totally defeat a technologically superior army. It's the same concept that GL explored when he co-wrote, with John Milius, the script which would eventually become Apocalypse Now. Of course, in the original drafts of Star Wars the Ewoks were originally supposed to be Wookies and I think that if GL hadn't have played up the cuteness factor the Ewoks victory wouldn't seem so unlikely. Technology doesn't automatically ensure a victory. That why we Americans had our butts handed to us in Korea, Vietnam and Somalia.

It's not the fact that the Ewoks were able to defeat the Imperials that bothers me, since history has shown that stuff like that really happens. It's the way it was shown onscreen that smacks more of promoting action figures than showing a realistic depiction of the battle.

darthvyn
06-23-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Of course, in the original drafts of Star Wars the Ewoks were originally supposed to be Wookies and I think that if GL hadn't have played up the cuteness factor the Ewoks victory wouldn't seem so unlikely.

i don't think the change from wookie to ewok was ALL marketing (although i do think it had a part in it...) i feel that it it was out of necessity that they had to change from very tall creatures to very short creatures. face it, there's a lot more "short" people in the world then there are "tall." also, wookies are already characterized as adept with technology, so the whole "non-tech defeating high-tech" idea was another reason to change it. if they had created a new furry race, not wookies, that were the same size as humans, it would have looked bad, so they went the other extreme and made them small.

bigbarada
06-23-2002, 06:40 PM
Oh don't get me wrong, I like the Ewok alien design. I just think it would have made for a more realistic final battle if we had more Teebos and less Wickets. Meaning, more fierce battle-hardened warriors and less wide-eyed teddy bears. Overall, though I thought the Ewoks tactics were pretty sound (lure the enemy into the forest and ambush them from a distance), but it was the way the battle was filmed with the violence toned down to nearly comic levels that hurt the credibility of the concept. That's all I was saying.:)

DeadEye
06-23-2002, 06:59 PM
We didn't get our butts handed to us in Somalia. Sure, we pulled out, but at least 100 times as many Somalis than Americans were killed.

LTBasker
06-23-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Oh don't get me wrong, I like the Ewok alien design. I just think it would have made for a more realistic final battle if we had more Teebos and less Wickets. Meaning, more fierce battle-hardened warriors and less wide-eyed teddy bears. Overall, though I thought the Ewoks tactics were pretty sound (lure the enemy into the forest and ambush them from a distance), but it was the way the battle was filmed with the violence toned down to nearly comic levels that hurt the credibility of the concept. That's all I was saying.:)

Well, overall, at least they weren't CGI. :happy:

Starfig873
06-23-2002, 08:52 PM
The rock thing isn't a problem at all IMO. And, well that's about all I have to contribute. :p

The 'woks should be CGI, then they can move their mouths better. ;)

Jacen Solo
07-18-2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
The protection from blaster fire is probably due to their finish and their ability to reflect light and probably has little to do with sturdy construction.

Besides they didn't really do so well against blaster fire anyway, so if they failed at what they were designed for then what makes you think they would excell at something they weren't designed for?

Stormtrooper armor was designed to protect against blasts from light arm blasters not heavy blasters, and designed only to deflect glancing shots, kinda like shrapnel, not direct hits.