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great gatzby
06-27-2002, 11:19 AM
Who out there thinks that the Lord of the Rings toy line could be the "next" Star Wars line? I've been reading a lot of articles lately that are starting to compare the 2.

-JediMaster-Yoda-
06-27-2002, 12:46 PM
star wars rules!
lords of the rings drools!
some reason i dont like lord of the rings i dont think is cool i never read the books but Star Wars is way better and better toys! to me anyway...

OriginalBryGuy
06-27-2002, 12:53 PM
ROTR figures are cool, but big, and slightly more then star wars. I don't think they'll have as big of an impact. There's also less characters to make...

pthfnder89
06-27-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by great gatzby
Who out there thinks that the Lord of the Rings toy line could be the "next" Star Wars line? I've been reading a lot of articles lately that are starting to compare the 2.

Nope, not a chance. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE ToyBizs Lord of the Rings toys but they won't be bigger than Star Wars.

Even the latest LOTR figures aren't really selling too well. And it took almost a year for the third wave to hit the shelves. The next wave will hopefully be out by August.

They just don't have the same fanbase behind them. LOTR obviously has plenty of fans of the books and movies, but not the toys. They need kids and toy collectors to keep their line going.

Whereas Star Wars toys are a totally different animal. There are millions of people who got into collecting Star Wars toys back with the vintage line and have been doing that for nearly twenty years. ToyBiz doesn't have that kind of history.

Jonna
06-27-2002, 12:58 PM
I have seen the LOTR toys and they seem really boring and drab compared to the SW stuff.

pthfnder89
06-27-2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Jonna
I have seen the LOTR toys and they seem really boring and drab compared to the SW stuff.

Actually they are very detailed and they have some great accessories. Of course they also have lots of gimmicks that only work about 1/3 of the time. Toy Biz is really bad about that, even worse than Hasbro. Their Xmen the Movie toy line was totally destoryed by useless gimmicks that didn't work.

Thankfully most of the ones in the ToyBiz lines aren't that bad and some of them actually work well.:)

bigbarada
06-27-2002, 01:22 PM
The LOTR figures are great; but too big for me to amass a huge collection.

I have a history with Star Wars toys that goes back 24 years, that's not going away anytime soon.

DarthBrandon
06-27-2002, 01:24 PM
No comparison, Star Wars kicks butt, while LOTR's is just left behind in Star Wars dust. Just my opinion on the matter.

2-1B
06-27-2002, 01:28 PM
That's a good point about LOTR not having as many characters to do. :)

JEDIpartner
06-27-2002, 01:31 PM
LOTR is on discount everywhere around here. I didn't really see much change in inventory during the peak. Tey still have most of the same figures, looking all tattered and whatnot on the pegs. There is no way. Ask the retailers.

Beast
06-27-2002, 03:02 PM
I don't care much about the toy line, but I did like the movie. Can't wait for Two Towers. I am trying to track 1 figure down, from the LOTR's line, and can't find the darn thing. I'm a huge Christopher Lee fan, and want to pick up the Saruman figure. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Darth Shifty
06-27-2002, 03:08 PM
I just saw the Saruman fig here in Boulder, Jar Jar. I'm sure it's still there. I can grab it for you if you'd like.

A'Sharad Hett
06-27-2002, 04:02 PM
There are alot of characters in the Tolkien universe, I'm sure if the line took off they would probably make figures for The Hobbit and maybe even get into The Silmarillian, which has thousands of characters. Its just that they are almost always an elf, a dwarf, a hobbit or a human, there aren't as many crazy lookin and unique characters to keep it going. I really enjoy the figures, I have the whole fellowship and a few others, but I doubt I would expand into other, less "mainstream" characters if it were to keep going.

pthfnder89
06-27-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
I don't care much about the toy line, but I did like the movie. Can't wait for Two Towers. I am trying to track 1 figure down, from the LOTR's line, and can't find the darn thing. I'm a huge Christopher Lee fan, and want to pick up the Saruman figure. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

The toy line really is one of the best ones out right now in my opinion JarJar. But if you aren't a big fan of the books then I can understand that they are pretty expensive to collect, at about $8-$9 a pop.

The Saruman/Christopher Lee figure is widely considered to be the single best figure in the whole line. It's an amazing likeness. :) Good luck on picking one up, and if you can't find one locally, let me know and I'd be happy to get one from my local KB. They still have a few.



Originally posted by JEDIPartnr
LOTR is on discount everywhere around here. I didn't really see much change in inventory during the peak. Tey still have most of the same figures, looking all tattered and whatnot on the pegs.


Damn, they haven't been discounted at all in my area, and I've been waiting for the so I can pick up a few extra Orcs. How much are they going for where you are JEDIPartnr?

Beast
06-27-2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
The toy line really is one of the best ones out right now in my opinion JarJar. But if you aren't a big fan of the books then I can understand that they are pretty expensive to collect, at about $8-$9 a pop.

The Saruman/Christopher Lee figure is widely considered to be the single best figure in the whole line. It's an amazing likeness. :) Good luck on picking one up, and if you can't find one locally, let me know and I'd be happy to get one from my local KB. They still have a few.
I like the line also, but Star Wars takes up alot of my extra cash, not to mention my DVD obsession. If they actually go on clerance, I may start picking some of them up, and work on collecting them. I wouldn't know if I'm a big fan of the books or not, since I have never read them. *Ducks flying bricks*

I meant for years to get around to it, but it seems that I kept putting it off. Then when they started talking about making movies, I wanted to avoid reading the books, until after I saw the movies. I am glad so far I did, because I had read the first 4 Harry Potter books, before seeing the movie, and it wasn't as good, as if I had walked in knowing nothing.

As for the offers to pick me up a Saruman, that would be very cool. I am gonna look around 1 more time in the next couple days at my local stores. If they still don't have one, I will contact one of you guys, about picking me up on. Thanks guys, appreciate the assistance. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

LTBasker
06-27-2002, 08:26 PM
AOTC was very good, especially when compared to TPM, however LOTR2 while it can't compare to SW, is looking quite awesome and does have a very strong chance at beating AOTC from not having that much of a chance to do as greatly as it could've due to being released to a lesser amount of threaters, and already getting pulled from some theaters now. So LOTR2 might have that as an advantage over AOTC.

Wolfwood319
06-27-2002, 08:46 PM
While both the LOTR books and movie(s) are the best things to be put into print and on film, respectively, SW caters more towards the fanbase that would be interested in action figures. Even though I personally like the LOTR figures more than the SW figs.

SW figs have just been much more predominant in recent years than LOTR in general.

great gatzby
06-28-2002, 04:29 PM
Yeah, but what about the property itself. Do you see it having the longevity that SW has? Especially if they go back and make the Hobbit?

As far as the toy line I definately see that there are not enough charecters and that they are too big.

Jonna
06-28-2002, 04:37 PM
You know, I still have not seen LOTR. I would like to, but just not to the point where I go out of my way. I'll just catch it on video.

wedgeA
06-29-2002, 05:32 AM
I prefer the SW toy line simply because of cost, variety, and the smaller size make collecting much easier, however, Toy Biz has done a solid job on the line, its just not something I want to drop $$ on.

As for the films LOTR:FOTR hands down beats any SW since Empire and ANH. I could easily argue for LOTR to win a best pic Oscar. As much as I love SW, I can't say it deserves a best pic award with a straight face.

QLD
06-29-2002, 12:28 PM
I love LOTR. But I think price, and the fact that I TRY to focus on on just SW figures, straying not too often. For some reason I wasn't impressed by the LOTR figs, even though I wanted to be.

Wolfwood319
06-29-2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by great gatzby
Yeah, but what about the property itself. Do you see it having the longevity that SW has? Especially if they go back and make the Hobbit?

As far as the toy line I definately see that there are not enough charecters and that they are too big.

Well, let's see here;

LOTR has been around a lot longer than SW, and they've been making LOTR toys for decades. Its just that most LOTR toys have always been marketed towards collectors and fans. And there are many MANY more characters in LOTR (and middle earth) than there are in Star Wars. But since they're all relatively human or human-looking, a vast toy line won't work because so many of the characters look similar.

Interest in LOTR has always been more of an underground thing (up until the movies came out at least) whereas since Star Wars is relatively newer, and was a movie first, its more main stream.

I personally think that LOTR will have a constant fan base for many more decades, while after SW3 comes out, new interest in SW will die off rather quick. Think of what the Star Wars fan base was like in the late 80's to early 90's. That's what I picture the Star Wars franchise to be in the future. Whereas LOTR will always have more of an underground, but higher sophisticated fanbase, as it has now.

JediTricks
06-30-2002, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Wolfwood319
LOTR has been around a lot longer than SW, and they've been making LOTR toys for decades.LOTR is only 23 years older than SW, not really THAT long in the scheme of fantasy entertainment (for example, Star Trek is 11 years older than SW and the movie 2001:A Space Odyssey is only 9 years older than SW). And I believe the first LOTR toy line came out 2 years after Star Wars and was a HUGE flop (they were based on the Ralph Bakshi LOTR animated film from '78). Then there were no toys until only a couple years ago with the somewhat popular LOTR toys from Toy Vault.

Wolfwood319
06-30-2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
LOTR is only 23 years older than SW, not really THAT long in the scheme of fantasy entertainment (for example, Star Trek is 11 years older than SW and the movie 2001:A Space Odyssey is only 9 years older than SW). And I believe the first LOTR toy line came out 2 years after Star Wars and was a HUGE flop (they were based on the Ralph Bakshi LOTR animated film from '78). Then there were no toys until only a couple years ago with the somewhat popular LOTR toys from Toy Vault.

So, what's your point? Everything I said was true. LOTR has been around since before I was born, Star Wars hasn't, so for me, LOTR has been around a lot longer than Star Wars. 23 years in this era is rather a long time. The actual concept of fantasy entertainment really didn't start until LOTR and Lewis' Narina, anyway.

bigbarada
06-30-2002, 11:57 PM
If you count The Hobbit into the LOTR picture, then the story was around 40 years before SW. The Hobbit was published in 1937, it took Tolkien 17 years to write the sequel because of a minor, little inconvenience called WW2.

When it comes to toys, I will pick Star Wars simply because the LOTR toys are too big and expensive for me. I prefer the little metal miniatures for fantasy characters anyway.

However, when it comes to movies I will take LOTR over ANY SW film anyday of the week and twice on Saturday!;) I've been waiting my whole life to see a well made fantasy film and LOTR has thus far pulled that off brilliantly and beyond what I ever imagined!

mrhat
07-01-2002, 12:26 AM
Toy Biz's LOTR toys are rather cool, very good likenesses, considerable acuralation (sp?) and some cool accessories, Ill be the first to tell you i DO have 4 LOTR toys (Saruman, Gandalf, Ringwraith, and ringwraith with horse) But my star Wars toys would beet them about 150 to one each (havent had time to count them all yet just a rough estimate) true LOTR has been around longer than SW they are all great books believe me, but in terms of movies, LOTR was really really good, i enjoyed star wars more but that is simply due to me being a huge fan, they are all good movies *except that piece of drabble called episode 1* I will see The Two Towers probobly opening day, like i saw Star Wars the opening day. Just my 2 cents

great gatzby
07-01-2002, 08:37 AM
Wolfwood,

You said that a vast LOTR toy line wouldn't work because there are too many human or human like characters but what about Star Wars? Most of the main characters are human and have been re-done over and over again with different outfits. I don't think that's the problem. The biggest problem is size and the amount of figures Toy Biz has released.

Mandalorian Candidat
07-01-2002, 03:55 PM
I don't know about a toy line for LOTR being around longer than that for SW, but I will say that there will never be a figure line more popular than SW unless you throw in GI Joe and Barbie, which have been around for ages. No LOTR will ever be as popular as that of SW as far as toys or merchandise goes. Maybe there's a fan base wider for LOTR than for SW, but the SW line has been a hit since its inception. LOTR was released in much smaller quantities than SW with less figures and no playsets.

When LOTR the movie was first released, it was an instant hit, but where were the displays in the stores for merchandise? I never saw more than 6 pegs of LOTR ever at any toy store. In contrast, during a non-SW release year there were tons of different POTJ or POTF2 figures and with new ones always coming in.

Plus how many times have you gone into a place like TRU and seen 4-5 SW collectors rifling through the pegs while tumbleweeds blow through the LOTR aisle?

Wolfwood319
07-01-2002, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by great gatzby
Wolfwood,

You said that a vast LOTR toy line wouldn't work because there are too many human or human like characters but what about Star Wars? Most of the main characters are human and have been re-done over and over again with different outfits. I don't think that's the problem. The biggest problem is size and the amount of figures Toy Biz has released.

Agreed, but I was talking in terms of a "general market" toy line, not a collector's line. Unless Toybiz did the "batman trick" and started making figures like "Jungle Attack Gandalf," and "Hydro blast Gimli," there just isn't enough ''general interest'' for a long-term LOTR figure line (like SW), IMO. I'd personally love a full-blown line, but its just not likely to happen in the scale that Star Wars is in.

As for the Star Wars line always been a hit...

Remember the figures that came out between '87-'94? Thought so. The interest and demand just wasn't there. After ROTJ, interest dropped off sharply (in terms of General Public interest), and even in 95' they weren't sure the new line would work. I'm sure the same it'll be the same situation come 5-6 years from now. After SW3, the interest will dropp off considerably again, and only the hardcore fans (like those who frequent sites like these) will really care anymore.

jjreason
07-01-2002, 11:18 PM
It would be very hard for LOTR to catch up in terms of sheer numbers of collectors. I can't imagine the most popular figure from LOTR, whoever it may be, has sold 10% of the units of the worst selling SAGA figure. IF the toys were similar in size and price, they may have had more luck catching kids doing comparison shopping.
Hasbro now (and Kenner before them) has succeeded so resoundingly in breeding completism in it's collectors, it's hard to imagine any other line competing. The "collect them all!!!!!!!!!" mindset has overtaken us worse than any other toy collecting group that I know of. Maybe the hotwheels guys can compete. The common threads are lower unit cost, many different and unique units, and the addition of lower run exclusives or short prints that drive the frenzy. LOTR may have a couple of these bases covered, but they're still too big and too expensive to compete.

JediTricks
07-02-2002, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Wolfwood319
So, what's your point? Besides the fact that there "they've been making LOTR toys for decades" is inaccurate? ;) My other point was that compared to HG Wells' and Jules Verne's bigger genre works - which are over 100 years old - 23 years isn't all that long. I think fantasy entertainment has been around a lot longer than LOTR and Narnia (which are basically the same era, Tolkien and Lewis were even contemporaries, co-workers, and friends), even Mark Twain wrote a little fantasy.


Originally posted by bigbarada
If you count The Hobbit into the LOTR picture, then the story was around 40 years before SW. The Hobbit was published in 1937, it took Tolkien 17 years to write the sequel because of a minor, little inconvenience called WW2. I don't count the Hobbit, the flavor is vastly different since it was created as a children's story with a different flavor and feel. I have heard Tolkien created it by telling a story for his own kids that he would build. Plus, another reason I wouldn't count it is that it took nearly an entire generation to get them out to the public... hmm, where else have I heard of that though? :D

I've been told Tolkien took so long to write LOTR because he was meticulous about every single detail being perfect, stuff like word usage and historical background he would spend months on.

One question BB, aren't you the person who doesn't like the Force aspects of Star Wars and the lightsabers?


ManCan, perhaps you could edit your statement to "there will never be a licensed figure line more popular than SW", since part of the longevity of Barbie, Hot Wheels, and GI Joe is the fact that Mattel and Hasbro don't have to pay licensing fees on those lines which allows them greater marketing risks.

jjreason
07-02-2002, 02:51 AM
The topic here is a bit of a bummer. I would hate to have to choose one at the expense of missing out on the other. ALL the movies, books and toys from these two entities are great. You really can't go wrong here.

Beast
07-02-2002, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
I've been told Tolkien took so long to write LOTR because he was meticulous about every single detail being perfect, stuff like word usage and historical background he would spend months on.
JediTricks, I have to recommend to you, and anyone else curious about the real truth about why it took him so long to write LOTR, and also where Tolkien got his insperation for certain things, pick up the DVD of the National Geograhic Special, Beyond the Lord of the Rings. Its avaliable now, or you can get a special extended version in the 5 disc extended special box set of FOTR in November. :)

It tells the story of Tolkien's life, his growing up in small farming community like the shire, his service in the war, and pretty much everything you ever wanted to know about him. There are some interviews from the cast, especially Christopher Lee. Christopher Lee personally knew Tolkien, and from what I understand, actually helped on the set, with some of the pronunciations of the languages. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JediTricks
07-02-2002, 03:01 AM
JJB, so was what I heard wrong, right, what? Is there a point to your advertisement of this DVD beyond "learn more by clicking here"? Not trying to be rude, but I'm no more informed now than I was when I read the article that contained that information I mentioned about Tolkien's meticulousness being the cause and an encyclopedia listing that confirmed it.

Beast
07-02-2002, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
JJB, so was what I heard wrong, right, what? Is there a point to your advertisement of this DVD beyond "learn more by clicking here"? Not trying to be rude, but I'm no more informed now than I was when I read the article that contained that information I mentioned about Tolkien's meticulousness being the cause and an encyclopedia listing that confirmed it.
Well, it's not quite as simple as those sources that you are talking about made it out to be. It was alot more then him just being meticulous and detailed. Like the fact that the Nazi's were bombing London at the time he was writing, and that his own son was in the war at the time. It's not an advertisment, I'm just saying that if you wanted to know more about Tolkien that it was a really good information source. Pardon me for pointing out how intresting and in depth the DVD is about his life, and where alot of the themes of Lord of the Rings is from. Sorry, didn't to upset you so much for recommending somthing. I thought that was somthing ok to do, since you do it alot yourself. :p :rolleyes:

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JediTricks
07-02-2002, 03:27 AM
"Well, it's not quite as simple as those sources that you are talking about made it out to be."

Why didn't you say that in the first place? :D You had information pertinent to the statement you were quoting and you could have shared even a little of it with us, but instead you simply suggested we go buy a DVD without any reason beyond "you'll learn about this guy" - not even, "you'll learn about this guy and why it isn't nearly as simple as what you heard JT". I was a bit frustrated because by quoting my statement, you seemed to be saying that statement wasn't accurate, but I wanted to know why I wasn't accurate even with a hint of an explanation. I didn't want to have to go spend my time looking for and then watching hours and hours of a DVD that may or may not have something to do with my comment simply based on what I thought you MAY have been hinting at in here.

Beast
07-02-2002, 03:33 AM
Oh ok, no problems JT. I thought you were slapping me upside the head for trying to be an infomercial. I was just trying to say that the sources that stated that info, was greatly simplyfing the story around the books. I'll watch the DVD again tonight, and take some notes and actually post some info about it tommorow. Again sorry, it wasn't meant as an advertisment. Just a source for more info. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

pthfnder89
07-02-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

JediTricks, I have to recommend to you, and anyone else curious about the real truth about why it took him so long to write LOTR, and also where Tolkien got his insperation for certain things, pick up the DVD of the National Geograhic Special, Beyond the Lord of the Rings. Its avaliable now, or you can get a special extended version in the 5 disc extended special box set of FOTR in November. :)


JarJar- Do you mean that the NG Documentary included in the boxed set is an extended version? Or do you just mean that the documentary is included with the extended cut of the LOTR film?

I thought that the NG Special that is included in the boxed set was the exact one that is available in stores seperately.

Beast
07-02-2002, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
JarJar- Do you mean that the NG Documentary included in the boxed set is an extended version? Or do you just mean that the documentary is included with the extended cut of the LOTR film?

I thought that the NG Special that is included in the boxed set was the exact one that is available in stores seperately.
Yes, the ones that is included in the big 5 disc boxset of FOTR that comes with the Weta statues. It's supposed to be a longer cut of the version that is avaliable seprately. Now I have to take my older copy, and sell it on ebay. :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

pthfnder89
07-02-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

Yes, the ones that is included in the big 5 disc boxset of FOTR that comes with the Weta statues. It's supposed to be a longer cut of the version that is avaliable seprately. Now I have to take my older copy, and sell it on ebay. :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

That's excellent news. I held off getting it seperately because I knew it was going to be included in the Deluxe LOTR package, but I'm even more happy to hear it will be a longer version.:)

I'm too lazy to sell anything on Ebay so I know it would just sit around collecting dust when I got the new one.:D

Beast
07-02-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
I'm too lazy to sell anything on Ebay so I know it would just sit around collecting dust when I got the new one.:D
Yeah, I don't like selling stuff on Ebay really either. Maybe I'll just end up offering it up for trade to someone here, for a figure or two that I need. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JediTricks
07-03-2002, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Oh ok, no problems JT. I thought you were slapping me upside the head for trying to be an infomercial. I was just trying to say that the sources that stated that info, was greatly simplyfing the story around the books. I'll watch the DVD again tonight, and take some notes and actually post some info about it tommorow. Again sorry, it wasn't meant as an advertisment. Just a source for more info. :)Ah, gotcha. Sorry I wasn't clear enough the first time myself.

Wolfwood319
07-03-2002, 10:56 PM
Yea...errr...so get the DVD...I guess:rolleyes:

Anywho, as it stands right now, SW is King of the Mountain in terms of the 'ole action figure game. And they have been for some time now. Nothing else really comes close. (although I personally don't think its as big now as it was towards the end of POTF2 and beginning of E1.)

However, I think after SW3, things will change. I don't think they'll stop making SW figures for quite a while, but I think the direction of the lines itself will change. Hasbro may only release one wave of figures a year, and they may be drastically different from anything we see right now (think how the Spawn line is.)

I don't think the interest will be as great after the final film comes out, so Hasbro will turn the line a different direction.

The LOTR line will never compare to the Star Wars line we have now, in terms of abundance or market share, anyway.

bigbarada
07-03-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
One question BB, aren't you the person who doesn't like the Force aspects of Star Wars and the lightsabers?


Yep, that was me; but I don't mind the magic in LOTR. Hey, I never claimed to be consistent.;)

Question, is this a thread about the movies or the toys? It seems to be talking about the toys more than the movies.

JediTricks
07-04-2002, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Yep, that was me; but I don't mind the magic in LOTR. Hey, I never claimed to be consistent.;)

Question, is this a thread about the movies or the toys? It seems to be talking about the toys more than the movies. Never thought you were consistent BB, never thought you were. :D

I honestly don't know, it seems to have been started about toys, but ventures into both realms.

I think SW not only changed the toy industry forever, but also gave that same industry impossibly high hopes about other licensed toys. Once SW is done being "toyetic" after Ep 3, I think the industry will shift back to GI Joe again, maybe something like Gundam as well, but it'll flounder like the comic industry did after the bottom dropped out.

scruffziller
07-08-2002, 05:26 AM
Star Wars figs will never beat anything, well if they were done by McFarlane Toys then they would be unstoppable. As for the movies themselves (i'll probably be linched for saying this on a SW site), but I liked Fellowship of the Ring better than EPS1. If any comparison is due.