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View Full Version : If you were extremely rich how would help people out ?



DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 09:57 AM
Lets say you had the money that Bill Gates had , how would you help others out ? Would you help others start up their own business or donate money to the poor. Would spread the wealth or would you hoard it all to yourself ?


I would help others out by funding them to start their own business and donate to the poor.

For the life of me I can't understand how big wigs can hold their heads up while all kinds of people are at rock bottom and they have the power to change it. Any thoughts anyone ?

LTBasker
07-05-2002, 10:18 AM
I'd make it where they had to release a Windows of REAL quality or their butts would be in jail without bail for Computer Fraud. :happy:

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 10:22 AM
I know what your saying there LTBasker, a windows version that works and doesn't hide stuff so the Gov and Bill can know what your up to in secret.

Now back to the topic what would you do if you had billions of dollars ? To help others out that is.

JetsAndHeels
07-05-2002, 10:25 AM
I think the first thing I would do is pay off my parents' house for them. They still have a house payment and I know its a pain for them. Then I would donate some to my church.
Then I would try to help out a few of my friends who I know would definately need the help.
I then would pay off some miscellaneous things, like my college loans, credit cards, etc.
Then I would enjoy some for myself!!

stillakid
07-05-2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by brandon
Lets say you had the money that Bill Gates had , how would you help others out ? Would you help others start up their own business or donate money to the poor. Would spread the wealth or would you hoard it all to yourself ?


I would help others out by funding them to start their own business and donate to the poor.

For the life of me I can't understand how big wigs can hold their heads up while all kinds of people are at rock bottom and they have the power to change it. Any thoughts anyone ?

Somehow, I don't know how exactly, I'd start with teachers. They simply aren't paid enough in relation to their importance in society.

What was Will Smith's deal for MIBII? Something like $20 million up front with like 20% of the first 2 weeks...for about 3 months work. That's not exactly right but you get the idea. I get it, it's a capitalist society and he helps make other people get rich, but for cryin' out loud.

When we start paying teachers a wage that allows them into a higher tax bracket instead of hovering near poverty levels (at least at entry level), then I think we'd see some very real positive effects in society.

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by JangoFett96
I think the first thing I would do is pay off my parents' house for them. They still have a house payment and I know its a pain for them. Then I would donate some to my church.
Then I would try to help out a few of my friends who I know would definately need the help.
I then would pay off some miscellaneous things, like my college loans, credit cards, etc.
Then I would enjoy some for myself!!

That's all good stuff JangoFett96, but I'm talking about billions of dollars not one million or two million. What would you do to help out the unfortunate people out there.

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by stillakid


Somehow, I don't know how exactly, I'd start with teachers. They simply aren't paid enough in relation to their importance in society.

What was Will Smith's deal for MIBII? Something like $20 million up front with like 20% of the first 2 weeks...for about 3 months work. That's not exactly right but you get the idea. I get it, it's a capitalist society and he helps make other people get rich, but for cryin' out loud.

When we start paying teachers a wage that allows them into a higher tax bracket instead of hovering near poverty levels (at least at entry level), then I think we'd see some very real positive effects in society.

Very nicely said stillakid, but you have billions of dollars and the power to make changes to help others out. The poor and unfortunate, people with good ideas and no money to fund them etc. What would you do ?

JetsAndHeels
07-05-2002, 10:43 AM
Allright Brandon, I see your point. What would I do with billions and billions of dollars....
First of all, I agree with what Stillakid mentioned about how our teachers do not get the pay they deserve. Our society has shown that it places more value on entertainment purposes than for education. Look at what the average proffessional ballplayer makes nowadays. Millions and millions of dollars are invested on just one player for one team. Think about what that could do for our educators and our schools. I would definately try to help out somewhere in this aspect.
Have you ever heard of Habitat for Humanity? This program helps build homes for underprivileged families. I would give a nice donation to this organization, so more people could have homes rather than live on the street. I feel this could help many, many people all around.
I am sure there are more things that I could think of, but they are not coming to me right now. Once I think of them I will post.

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 10:59 AM
That's what I'm looking for JangoFett96, building homes for underprivileged families and helping teachers, those are great ideas.

stormie
07-05-2002, 11:14 AM
I've always thought that if I had a ton of money, I'd want to give it to the Humane Society and other such animal rescue organizations. Maybe even start a new organization that takes care of all the mistreated, cast-off, and rescued animals.

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by stormie
I've always thought that if I had a ton of money, I'd want to give it to the Humane Society and other such animal rescue organizations. Maybe even start a new organization that takes care of all the mistreated, cast-off, and rescued animals.

That's good and all stormie, but what about the other billions you have ?

SWAFMAN
07-05-2002, 12:04 PM
habitat for humanity is a great cause! excellent idea, Jango!!

just off the top of my head, one thought would be to maybe create a fund that would match, dollar for dollar, people's own contributions to their retirement savings or their savings for their kids' education. that way, it wouldn't really be charity, but an added reward to those willing to work for themselves.

perhaps, in cases where someone has been working steadily for a long, long time, but for very low wages, and still sacrificed so they could save some small amount for their, or their kids' future, rather than just match their amount, I would add some fantastic additional amount (7+ figures) - again, as a reward for them working so hard to get by in life, not just a handout.

stormie
07-05-2002, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by brandon
That's good and all stormie, but what about the other billions you have ?

Well, I'd give it all to these organizations (as it would take billions to effectively work). But I now see the title of this thread is "...how to help people..." so for people, I'd probably want to help fund research into finding cures for mental illness.

stillakid
07-05-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by brandon


Very nicely said stillakid, but you have billions of dollars and the power to make changes to help others out. The poor and unfortunate, people with good ideas and no money to fund them etc. What would you do ?

Yeah, it would take billions to pay all the (worthy) teachers what they're worth. A lot of those people who have the potential to be the best teachers don't even bother because the money is so poor. You have to put the dollars out there first to attract the best. The sheer numbers of teachers would more than chew up billions, in addition to updating facilities and educational materials across the board. The money is clearly out there, but "society" puts more value on spending for entertainment purposes than for education. Beyond a pure handout, it will take a wholesale change of priorities on everyone's part until "things" appear to get better.

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by stillakid


The money is clearly out there, but "society" puts more value on spending for entertainment purposes than for education. Beyond a pure handout, it will take a wholesale change of priorities on everyone's part until "things" appear to get better.

Yeah I hear ya there, but if we don't go to the hockey, baseball, basketball games, movies etc. I think that would put a stop to all these outrageous salaries right. Never understood how someone who shoots hoops, bats a ball, shoots a put, acts in a movie,get more money than hard working individuals. Huge ????????? of morals and priorities in society today.

stillakid
07-05-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by brandon


Yeah I hear ya there, but if we don't go to the hockey, baseball, basketball games, movies etc. I think that would put a stop to all these outrageous salaries right. Never understood how someone who shoots hoops, bats a ball, shoots a put, acts in a movie,get more money than hard working individuals. Huge ????????? of morals and priorities in society today.

Well, look at it this way for a second. Your question assumes that "I" have a billion extra dollars lying around that I'd want to redistribute back to the people I got it from.

How did I get it? I'd have to get it from "you guys." How? Either through investments or by doing some job that I'm probably being overpaid for (what job is worth a salary that allows a person to stash away a billion dollars? Maybe there is one out there that I don't know about.)

So anyway, there are two limitations on my getting silly rich: 1) there is a fairly limited amount of wealth that is distributed among all the people out there, and 2) I can't just walk into your home and take your share of it outright. I need to do something to convince you to give me your share. Either, invest in your doing something that will earn me back a percentage of your profit or go out and do something myself that is equally (if not more) lucractive than just collecting on your labor.

In this society, people like to be entertained. Sports, movies, stripclubs, etc. Each of those activities is relatively inexpensive per person but it is the sheer volume of people who drop their small share into the pot that makes it add up.

Ultimately, what you're asking for is what the Republican's call Trickle Down economics. The theory is that if you give the rich people enough breaks to earn as much money as possible, they will turn around and "trickle" it back down to benefit the very people that they took it from in the first place. Another name for this is Communism. Simply put, consolidate the wealth, then redistribute it to the masses. In theory, it's probably the most fair system ever dreamed up. In reality, it has never worked...ever. Why? Because the money/power never gets redistributed. Once "they" have it, "they" have no interest in giving it up. I mean, who would? Once you're rich and looking out the gates at the rest of us, what would compel you to give it all up just to be one of the lowly masses?

jjreason
07-05-2002, 02:15 PM
I would set myself up as a charitable organization, and allow people to make application for whatever funds they felt they needed for anything. People in need for medical treatments, people in bankruptcy due to job loss, people with good business ideas, people wanting money for school, all welcome to apply. All reasonable requests granted. I would however, expect some contact from all parties in the future letting me know how things had worked out.
I was very proud of ex-Chicago Bear Richard Dent for buying a couple of buildings in Chicago, renovating them, and giving the apartments away to people who needed a better place to live in order to get their lives sorted out. With all that money, you could provide so much shelter and food it would be amazing. In these instances I would try to staff the buildings with medical personnel to treat the new people coming in for any ailments, with food prep staff so that they could deal with whatever problems they had (drugs, debt, etc) on a full stomach, and I would try to staff it with people who could help them find a career path or training they'd need to become self sufficient. Grant them a year of living all expenses paid, try to get them trained and off drugs and send them out and see how they do. I really think that there are thousands of people in Canadian and US cities that could use a break like this to get on the right foot for once. So many people start in such big holes, I'd like to help them get out.
I would donate a lot of money to starting up programs to educate people, especially kids, about the dangers of drugs and alcohol. Im no teetotaller, but I think kids need info so that they can at least make informed decisions about abusable substances. As a cop I can relate to the argument that it's very hard to fight the war against drugs by battling the suppliers only. We really need to eliminate the demand for drugs before we can solve this terrible problem.
Nike, Microsoft, heck all of corporate America - it really is time to give more than a little back.
I'd also like to point out that there are so many other countries in the world that need this money as badly as we do. After trying to help at home, it would be nice to see if I could reach out globally and help as well.

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by stillakid


Well, look at it this way for a second. Your question assumes that "I" have a billion extra dollars lying around that I'd want to redistribute back to the people I got it from.

You have billions of dollars stillakid, lets say 600 billion, your Bill Gates and your tired of seeing people starving in your country and living on the streets, addicted to drugs etc. You decide to keep one billion out 600 billion for yourself and give the rest to fund things and help people out. So now you have 599 billion to dish out. What do you do ? I know in reality it would never happen, but this is a hypothetical question that needs a good hypothetical response. I know this would never work in todays society, cause everybody is out for themselves and power is hard to give up, but if you were in that situation what would you do ?
Never mind how you got silly rich, the question is you have 599 billion dollars to dish to help people and why you chose where to give the money.

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by jjreason
I would set myself up as a charitable organization, and allow people to make application for whatever funds they felt they needed for anything. People in need for medical treatments, people in bankruptcy due to job loss, people with good business ideas, people wanting money for school, all welcome to apply. All reasonable requests granted. I would however, expect some contact from all parties in the future letting me know how things had worked out.
I was very proud of ex-Chicago Bear Richard Dent for buying a couple of buildings in Chicago, renovating them, and giving the apartments away to people who needed a better place to live in order to get their lives sorted out. With all that money, you could provide so much shelter and food it would be amazing. In these instances I would try to staff the buildings with medical personnel to treat the new people coming in for any ailments, with food prep staff so that they could deal with whatever problems they had (drugs, debt, etc) on a full stomach, and I would try to staff it with people who could help them find a career path or training they'd need to become self sufficient. Grant them a year of living all expenses paid, try to get them trained and off drugs and send them out and see how they do. I really think that there are thousands of people in Canadian and US cities that could use a break like this to get on the right foot for once. So many people start in such big holes, I'd like to help them get out.
I would donate a lot of money to starting up programs to educate people, especially kids, about the dangers of drugs and alcohol. Im no teetotaller, but I think kids need info so that they can at least make informed decisions about abusable substances. As a cop I can relate to the argument that it's very hard to fight the war against drugs by battling the suppliers only. We really need to eliminate the demand for drugs before we can solve this terrible problem.
Nike, Microsoft, heck all of corporate America - it really is time to give more than a little back.
I'd also like to point out that there are so many other countries in the world that need this money as badly as we do. After trying to help at home, it would be nice to see if I could reach out globally and help as well.

jjreason you seem to be thinking with the heart as you clearly made good points to where the money should go, and I can't agree with you more that big corporations should give more than just a little back. This would most likely eliminate world hunger and homeless people.Well said my friend.

stillakid
07-05-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by brandon


You have billions of dollars stillakid, lets say 600 billion, your Bill Gates and your tired of seeing people starving in your country and living on the streets, addicted to drugs etc. You decide to keep one billion out 600 billion for yourself and give the rest to fund things and help people out. So now you have 599 billion to dish out. What do you do ? I know in reality it would never happen, but this is a hypothetical question that needs a good hypothetical response. I know this would never work in todays society, cause everybody is out for themselves and power is hard to give up, but if you were in that situation what would you do ?
Never mind how you got silly rich, the question is you have 599 billion dollars to dish to help people and why you chose where to give the money.


Okay, according to:http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock



U.S. POPClock Projection

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 7/5/2002 at 4:00:10 PM EDT is 287,452,375

COMPONENT SETTINGS One birth every.................................. 8 seconds One death every.................................. 13 seconds One international migrant (net) every............ 29 seconds


600 billion divided by 287,452,375 is about $2087 per person. That's pretty fair if that's the goal. :)

Other than that, heck, where do you start? Schools, homes, food, medicine...?

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 03:34 PM
The bottom of your list is where it's at and lets not forget jjreason's idea of getting all the major corporations to give back way more than they give to the public, then it may work. You seem to know your stuff i'll give you that bro.

Lobito
07-05-2002, 03:50 PM
Good question...

Assuming i had almost unlimited money:

First of, i would make an analysis of the ppl that need immediate attention...for instance, all the poor countries that have no home, food or medical attention. I would buy and send food to all those ppl, i would build buildings on which everyone has a room and a bathroom (like a HUUUUGE motel), then i would build a hospital (for all the basic needs...). After that, i would hire the experienced ppl to build a huge farm on which they will teach the normal ppl how to keep up the work with the far, that way they can learn and start from there. Second i will build a school for all of them to educate themselves and start their quest to become independent.

I would do that to all the regions of the globe that need that kind of attention.

Hope that helps!!:)

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 04:03 PM
Sounds good Lobito, but what about the people from where you live, how would you help them. I guess I'm asking this cause I would help the people from my country first, and then move on to rest after I'm done with mine.

Lobito
07-05-2002, 04:08 PM
I know what u mean my friend, but thats a risk i would take, i know that there are ppl all around the world that needs more immediate attention than my countrymen...Of course i would help them, but in the scale of needs...after all we are all humans.;)

DarthBrandon
07-05-2002, 04:11 PM
Yes I see your point now Lobito, and it's a good one. There are many more PPL around the world that do need more help than ours do. Good point.

jjreason
07-05-2002, 04:45 PM
In all reality, it doesn't take all that much money to live a "rich" lifestyle. If we popped a million dollars cash into any one of our lives right now, we would be "rich". Imagine the wealth you're talking about, how far it would go. You could literally change the world. The problem, as always, would be the amount of greed you'd encounter - and from sources you wouldn't expect. One person couldn't divy up that much capital, you'd need to appoint a council to help, and a trustee group to monitor them, and a trustee-trustee group to monitor the trustees! Crikey, that's a big chunk of the money gone in just administration.....
Maybe the UN could jump on board and help the international portion of the money get placed in the right hands.
Not an easy homework assignment, Brandon, but one that would reap limitless reward.

Jason B
07-05-2002, 05:04 PM
Honestly, I would go help out the Jews. I would give them the money, and help them out in any and every way possible.

Jargo
07-05-2002, 05:29 PM
I'd keep it all for myself MWAHAHAHA...ha...... okay, it's not that kind of thread...........


I'd fund AIDS research and treatment. Especially in third world countries. I'd also fund reserach into the O gene that makes some people immune to AIDS and how to create a vaccine based on the O gene.

I'd open sports facilities of olympic quality for the common people and make them free to use. Can't have Olympic athletes without Olympic training facilities. How you gonna realise some peoples potential if you can't see them at their best?

I'd open swimming pools for dogs with arthritis and related complaints. With physiotherapists for them too. I've seen a lot of dogs suffer from a lack of facilities to help them cope with the pain of arthritis due to pet companies making the dog foods too rich and urging owners to overfeed the dogs. End result is a dog that suffers and an owner who can't afford the treatment to have the dogs joints repaired. having swimming pools would offer some alleviating therapy for the animals and allow owners to get some free complimentary 'medicine' for their pet.

I'd pay to have a rainforest replanted and for it to be policed by armed rangers. Anyone cutting down or damaging trees will be shot for trespassing on my property. If I own the trees planted on the land then you're commiting a crime against me by damaging them. There's a kind of logic to this but I haven't sat down and thoughjt about it like I very rarely do about anything. This is a spur of the moment post with about six seconds of consideration to each idea.

bigbarada
07-05-2002, 08:11 PM
For the world hunger issue, there are many countries (like Somalia in the 90s) that use starvation as a tool to keep the people under their boot. Thus I would first fund the largest spurt of military growth in history with the purpose of dismantling those governments. Then and only then would food and medicine reach those it really needs.

I agree with Jason B about helping the Jews out with their problems in the middle east. I wouldn't send military support, just billions of dollars and access to all the technological advancement we have here in the States to aid them in their war on terror.

Place a $50 billion bounty on Saddam Hussein's head. Then we will see how loyal his people really are.

I'd buy out every HMO and Medical Insurance Company and rearrange the rules for who gets coverage. (those who make over $50,000 per year are dropped immediately) The fact that insurance will pay for a nose job for a rich businesswoman; but not for a heart transplant for an inner city black kid is criminal.

Just the first thoughts off the top of my head.

derek
07-05-2002, 10:31 PM
1. the government has been throwing billions and billions at the "needy" since the 60's, and they have yet to end poverty.

2. how did the rich get wealthy off the backs of the poor if the poor have nothing? i've never understood that concept.:confused:

3. professional athletes, entertainers, and the guy who owns "windows" can demand high salaries because the skills or product they offer are unique. not just anyone can hit a baseball thrown 100 MPH or guarantee their film will generate 30 million on it's opening weekend.

4. teachers will be paid a better wage when parents decide their children deserve better. those same people who want to pay educators "what they are worth" are the same ones who support the failed public education system.

so, what would i do if i had billions?

i'd buy the rights to ayn rand's novels("atlas shrugged"," the fountainhead", "we the living" and "anthem") and make them into movies.

SWAFMAN
07-05-2002, 11:10 PM
(those who make over $50,000 per year are dropped immediately)

BigB, I agree that there is no need for extremely weathy people to draw benefits like social security. But dropping people from insurance plans who are paying their premiums the same as anyone else? I don't get that one. And $50K ????? I gotta tell you BigB, that's not very much money these days, especially if you have a kid (or three). There is NO WAY a family of three or four (2 adults + 1 or 2 kids), grossing or even netting $50K a year could afford basic living expenses plus even ONE major medical event without insurance.

Exhaust Port
07-06-2002, 12:18 PM
About teachers low salaries, here is what I came up with during a brief search. Remember, teachers work only 9 months a year and get every holiday off as well as some other large breaks (i.e. Spring Break) for a total of roughly 180 days a year of work. These numbers are for high school positions and I include the average salary for those districts that gave them. I also averaged out their salary for an entire year and placed that number in the ().

OH: $26,996 ($35,995)
MA: $27,000 ($36,000)
CA: $35,122 ($46,829)
MO: $27,891 ($37,188) Average: $40,772 ($54,362)
CO: $29,112 ($38,816) Average: $48,517 ($64,689)
MI: $30,000 ($40,000)

Average starting salary for these 6 districts: $29,353.50 school year

Not too bad for 9 months work to start in my opionion. Now before someone jumps all over me for posting this I am well aware of the need and importance of our nations teachers. Both my parents are professors and I have several friends that teach at the college level. Heck, even I have a couple years of college teaching under my belt. Now, what I did was year round and well below the numbers stated for starting in a high school sadly.

Should teachers get paid well? Sure but many people remember the numbers of the 80's when public teachers were paid dirt. Times have changed and teacher salaries are not too shabby. I'm looking at 3 years in my profession before I even reach a high school teachers starting salary and I have to work year round.


As for what I would do with billions of dollars: I would donate nearly all of it towards medical research. That would be something that would help people well after the money is gone. What if that money could lead to the cure for cancer? aids? or simple virus diseases? Boy, hundreds if not thousands of years later, humans would still be benefiting from that knowledge.

I would still like to donate money to some other causes but it would have to be constructive. I couldn't give money to a homeless person but I would give them a skill and a job. I couldn't give money to send food to a starving nation but I would establish farms or other economical resources that would end the hunger. What good is dropping medical supplies into a nation that has had it's hospitals destroyed? Sure, short-term lives maybe saved but what happens once the air-drops stop? I would love to rebuild the infrastructure of failing nations to get them back on their feet.

scruffziller
07-06-2002, 07:28 PM
I would give random people a thousand dollars but of course helping my friends and family out first. But the only problem is that if.............................YOU GIVE A MAN A FREE HOUSE AND HE'LL BUST OUT THE WINDOWS PUT HIS FAMILY ON FOOD STAMPs..............

Wooooof
07-07-2002, 12:39 AM
It's called exploiting the working class, derek. Just look at Enron for an example of how the rich can steal from the lower classes.

Take a history class and you will see that it is a pattern that has repeated itself throughout history. The "haves" taking from the "have-nots." The Industrial Revolution is another example. Factories moved into towns and made virtual slaves out of the people. Children as young as 8, would be forced to work 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week chained to their stations so they couldn't run away. That's how the rich feed off of the poor.

derek
07-07-2002, 03:09 AM
Wooooooooooooof,

actually i'm glad you brought up enron. it's a good example those who despise the wealthy use to further their cause.

but what really happened with enron? did ken laye and other big whigs actually steal or take from their lesser employees or investors? if you were to listen to almost any reporter or politician, one would believe enron executives were car jacking people and eating their children{thanks to mike tyson for that one:)}

actually if one were to get technical about it, the employees who lost their "life savings" actually lost nothing when enron's stock value crashed. the stock was artifically high, meaning what they lost was actually only on paper.

if i sold you a $1,000,000 check for $50 and you kept it in your wallet thinking you were set for life, but then when you went to cash it, you discovered it was worthless, you didn't really lose anything but your $50, just like the enron employees didn't really lose what we were told.:)

but wait you say, they did put some of thier own money in their 401K's and they lost that. well, you're right, but no one forced them to do this. that's the gamble one takes when they invest.

as for history classes, can you direct me to one whose professor isn't a socialist, and who will give reason and capitalism it's proper respect for leading the human race out of the dark ages?

anyway, getting back to the topic of discussion, no amount of money is going to solve the ills of the world, it will merely act as a band-aid when surgery is actually what's needed. our government has proven over and over that giving money away to our citizens or to other countries does not accomplish the desired goals, because 9 times out of ten, the problems a person has are caused by their own actions. only when people embrace reason, freedom and capitalism will the ills of war, disease, hunger, drug addiction, etc. become things of the past. but to those of you who advocate the redistribution of wealth, why not start with yourselves? you don't have to have billions of dollars to give away. start with selling everything you own or don't really need. i'm sure some crack addict with a gambling problem could use your extra cash more than you could. do you really need 2 of every figure?:crazed:

Exhaust Port
07-07-2002, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by derek

but wait you say, they did put some of thier own money in their 401K's and they lost that. well, you're right, but no one forced them to do this. that's the gamble one takes when they invest.


Actually, the majority of horror stories that came out of the Enron fall dealt with employees who invested heavily in the Enron employee stock purchase plan. I've always heard warnings of investing in your own company but some people had obviously not been told. "How can I pass up such a great deal?"

Others were a bit smarter with their 401k and diversified it through out the market and would have felt no punch as Enron fell. I feel sorry for all those employees having lost their jobs so dramatically but not for those that put all their money into one basket by investing only in Enron. That's just a bad move.

Anyone seen the Women of Enron issue of Playboy? :crazed:

derek
07-07-2002, 12:13 PM
you're correct exhaust port. i meant the "company stock thing" instead of a 401K.:)

i know people lost lots of money, "on paper", but i do recall average employees being interviewed who as they were exiting the building after the layoffs who were laughing because they said they "sold their enron stock at $80 per share".

SWAFMAN
07-07-2002, 02:35 PM
this is getting kinda off topic, but ExPort & derek, you're right that overvalued stocks may create an illusion of wealth to some investors or employees who purchase stock through their company's options, but as derek said, it's only an illusion if you fail to sell before the stock's price crashes.

We've had a big market correction over the last year, and with all the heightened scrutiny on corporate accounting practices, we're sure to find more dubious numbers and see some more corporations' stock prices drop.

Call that lost stock value an "on-paper" "correction" or a reality-check from the illusion of the stock's previous value, or call it whatever you want. But don't forget that a family just lost the college fund for their kids, or just went from being able to retire this year, to having to keep working another 5 - 10 years.

And that's not and illusion. It's a real, live, crappy reality.

Exhaust Port
07-07-2002, 03:35 PM
Betting your financial future on the stock market alone is too much of a risk in my opionion. Many families lost a lot, college funds and retirement, when Enron went belly-up. Enron's stock "correction" was just the tip of the iceberg of a long bumpy road as companies are scrutinized more closely. Properly diversifing that retirement or college fund will allow it to ride out the dips in the economy. I think that a lot of people are still holding on to the hope of a rebound to the market similar to the late 90's. They're just getting a harsh reality check that as quickly as stock value can rise it can fall.

For me, the stock market is just on paper. When it dives I think nothing of it in terms of people losing money, they're just numbers. It's almost no different than playing the lottery. The Enron folks who lost were under the impression that the stock value was bound to rise again (that was the industry trend for the last 10 years). They had portfolios worth $10,000's, why should they sell and lose some of that value? It's just poor investing. Some people played the game better than other as derek said and made out like bandits.

Emperor Howdy
07-08-2002, 02:54 AM
I would buy a large portion of land somewhere, perhaps several islands. I'd have underground laboratories with well-payed scientists perfecting the art of cloning. I then, of course, would construct a massive clone army, and a legendary arsenal of planes, tanks, and ships. The army would not be for attack, but solely to keep out any government attempting to interfere with the shananagans on my island(s). Finally, I'd bring in barges filled with women, contraband, and the surviving members of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Soundgarden, and the Beatles.....and live happily ever after.

stormie
07-08-2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by SWAFMAN
... overvalued stocks may create an illusion of wealth to some investors or employees who purchase stock through their company's options...

I thank my lucky stars (whatever that means) every day that I didn't "take advantage" of my old company's stock options...stock that was trading at ~$65 a share when I started, and is currently trading at ~$1.5. I guess I'm also lucky I don't work there any longer! :D
...stupid Internet companies...

Wooooof
07-08-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by derek
as for history classes, can you direct me to one whose professor isn't a socialist, and who will give reason and capitalism it's proper respect for leading the human race out of the dark ages?

I know plenty of historians and professors who aren't socialists. They are not hard to find, you just need to look.



only when people embrace reason, freedom and capitalism will the ills of war, disease, hunger, drug addiction, etc. become things of the past.

Nothing like good old-fashioned American arrogance.:rolleyes:
This, kids, is a perfect example of ethnocentrism, which is basically the belief that one's own society is far superior to all other societies and not simply a different way of doing things.


but to those of you who advocate the redistribution of wealth, why not start with yourselves? you don't have to have billions of dollars to give away. start with selling everything you own or don't really need. i'm sure some crack addict with a gambling problem could use your extra cash more than you could. do you really need 2 of every figure?:crazed:

I'm not talking about the working class driving themselves into poverty taking care of the dregs of society, I'm talking about the extremely rich (bourgeoisie) who exploit the poor and the destitute (proletariat). It's happened in the past, it's happening now and it will continue to happen for the duration of human history.

I know I am using terminology created by Carl Marx, but I do not believe in the viability of Marxism, communism or socialism as realistic ways to govern large populations as long as human beings are in charge.

derek
07-09-2002, 12:37 AM
wooof,

actually the philosophy of reason, freedom and capitalism i speak of is not an american concept. it was developed by a russian immigrant.:)

and it's not my mere opinion that this philosophy is superior to all others, it's actually what nature REQUIRES for man to survive and flourish.

EricRG
07-09-2002, 01:01 AM
1000 posts - nice job Derek.

I'm personally in favor of putting a ton of those billions into all sorts of scientific research. And also preservation of the environment.

Wooooof
07-09-2002, 11:12 AM
The other side of ethnocentric thought, the belief that one's way of doing things is somehow "natural" and all other ways are "unnatural."