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DarthBrandon
07-21-2002, 07:36 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed before, if it has then please merge it accordingly.

Did anyone notice that the music (score) in Harry Potter is strikingly similar to the original Star Wars trilogy? I noticed this the first time I seen it, and got into an argument with my friend about it. The score is done by John Williams I told him, and sure enough after the film was over, the credits posted John Williams name. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed this?

master jedi
07-21-2002, 07:45 PM
Well everything else from Harry Potter is stolen from other things so why not the music.

DarthBrandon
07-21-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by master jedi
Well everything else from Harry Potter is stolen from other things so why not the music.

Yes this is true, but did you notice this also ?

jjreason
07-21-2002, 08:01 PM
Similarities abound in Williams work. You can tell he did the scores for Superman and Indiana Jones as well, his music just has that sound. In EpII he uses some themes from other works - most notably was when Dooku's on his speeder. The music "resembles" the Wicked Witch's theme from Wizard of Oz! I think it's just his way of paying homage to things that influenced him. Also, he may "hear" flying in a specific way (weird, artistic thought I know - sorry) when he's writing music, that would explain similarities between those types of scenes scoring.
I don't REALLY know of course, just some thoughts.....



JJREASON! Sorry, Pendo, I've been dying to do that....

DarthBrandon
07-21-2002, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by jjreason
[B]Similarities abound in Williams work. You can tell he did the scores for Superman and Indiana Jones as well, his music just has that sound. In EpII he uses some themes from other works - most notably was when Dooku's on his speeder. The music "resembles" the Wicked Witch's theme from Wizard of Oz! I think it's just his way of paying homage to things that influenced him. Also, he may "hear" flying in a specific way (weird, artistic thought I know - sorry) when he's writing music, that would explain similarities between those types of scenes scoring.
I don't REALLY know of course, just some thoughts.....
(B]

Yeah but it's the exact same score, just a little slower than the S.W. one. If I was Lucas I would really be P.O. big time.

DeadEye
07-21-2002, 08:50 PM
Yeah, Williams recycles a lot of his music. Some music in AOTC was similar to scores in The Lost World and even Minority Report! :D

Jargo
07-22-2002, 08:34 AM
There's only so many combinations of notes and musical phrases that a composer can use. Somewhere down the line everything sounds like everything else. Every musician has a sound or style that is identifiably theirs. It's a way of advertising that it was them who dod the work. Call it a calling card to the industry.

Some of the greatest composers became great simply by recycling one theme for their whole career. Michael Nyman who did the score for The Piano starring Sam Neill and Holly Hunter and Anna Paquim(sp?) has made his career out of using one phrase borrowed from a Chopin piano concerto. Yet each of his scores while remaining true to his work sound so different. He reworks the phrase so many times and in so many subtle and clever ways that it remains fresh.
John Williams has had a long and distinguished career and deserves a break if he sometimes re-uses a phrase here or a trill there. At the end of the day the point of the music is to either underpin the tension or accentuate the passion and emotion of a film. Williams knows just how to do this perfectly to evoke the feelingsin an audience that a director wants. Unfortunately when the director is George Lucas and he cuts and pastes the movie all over the place at the last minute it renders the work Williams did useless and nonsensical. I wondered why the scores for TPM and AOTC didn't quite work and it's basically because Lucas hacked it to pieces in the edit.
Anyway. If you want to liste to another composer who re-uses their own music all the time try Ennio Moricconi(sp?) or John Barry.
Danny Elfman... they all do it. It's no big thing.

And you actually went to see harry Potter? You're braver than i thought...

mabudonicus
07-22-2002, 10:22 AM
What about danny elfman? Did anyone else notice that the music from "spiderman" was the exact same "theme" as that of Batman?? I swear, I kept forgetting which hero was in the film whenever the music swelled up...

DarthBrandon
07-22-2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by EMPEROR JARGO
And you actually went to see harry Potter? You're braver than i thought...

I had no choice, my son wanted to see it, so I rented it for him. I won't lie and say I didn't watch it, I did, and for a kids movie I thought it sucked big time. Hey, but what do I know the little fellow loved it.

Pendo
07-22-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by jjreason
JJREASON! Sorry, Pendo, I've been dying to do that....

It's fun isn't it :D! Well it IS at first but it gets a bit annoying after 666 posts and having to do it on every one!

I like the music to Harry Potter. haven't got round to buying the soundtrack yet but the music does grow on you. JW recycles alot of his music and he has his own uniqe style of performing it.
In Episode II I keep hearing the theme from Hook in Across the Stars, I keep expection to see Peter Pan flying through Coruscant!

I also noticed the Batman/Spider-Man them of Danny Elfman, I thought I was seeing the wrong film at first!

And brandon what do you mean "I thought it sucked big time" I thought it was a really good film and I enjoyed every second of it!

Here comes another one:
PENDO!

Jedi Knightrider
07-22-2002, 11:30 AM
See, the thing is, it's hard to ba a recognizable composer without sticking to certain music styles, progressions, and feelings.

Do you say, "Vincent Van Gogh sucks. All his paintings have the same feeling to the brush stroke."

NO! You recognize it as a Van Gogh BECAUSE of his stroke. The same way you recognize a Danny Elfman theme because of the chord progression.

JKR! (couldn't resist.)

DarthBrandon
07-22-2002, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
And brandon what do you mean "I thought it sucked big time" I thought it was a really good film and I enjoyed every second of it!

Here comes another one:
PENDO!

Just my own opinion on the movie itself, there was no originality to it what so ever, just seemed to me that I've seen that movie a hundred times before in others films. Just plain didn't like it, my son did though and that's all that counts for me.

QLD
07-22-2002, 12:13 PM
Pendo, why don't you just add that to your signature line?

pthfnder89
07-22-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by EMPEROR JARGO
John Williams has had a long and distinguished career and deserves a break if he sometimes re-uses a phrase here or a trill there. At the end of the day the point of the music is to either underpin the tension or accentuate the passion and emotion of a film. Williams knows just how to do this perfectly to evoke the feelingsin an audience that a director wants.

Exactly Jargo. Each composer has a very distinctive style, as do almost any type of artist you can think of. for example, the last four or five films of Ridley Scott have all used VERY similar camera techniques; filters and masks on the camera that he likes. Gladiator and Black Hawk Down were both VERY obviously shot by the same person, but they were also wonderful and completely individual films in their own rights.

I myself didn't hear any resemblence whatsoever between the HP score and ANH but that's just me. I did really like the main theme to HP though; it captured the magical and slightly silly world of Harry Potter just perfectly.


Originally posted by EMPEROR JARGO
And you actually went to see harry Potter? You're braver than i thought...


It actually wasn't that bad, although I wouldn't go so far as to say it was very good either. On the one hand, Chris Columbus managed to stay absolutely true to virtually every tiny detail of the Harry Potter universe, even moreso than Lord Of The Rings, which is saying a lot.

And I have honestly NEVER seen a novel-based movie that was more perfectly cast.

On the other hand, Columbus just isn't a good director and the resulting movie was very.... emotionless I guess is the right word. I never hated it, but I never felt very involved while watching it either.

I have higher hopes for the sequel, which they've continued the great casting by adding Kenneth Branaugh as Prof. Lockhart.

El Chuxter
07-22-2002, 02:06 PM
I noticed there were similarities, but I wouldn't say they were the same. I think Across the Stars is closer to themes from Hook than the HP&TSS theme was to the CT music.

Like someone (I'm too lazy to go back and check who) said, the composers have a certain style that is recognizable. Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Superman, ET, Hook, Jaws, Close Encounters, AI, Jurassic Park--let's face it, if you were to mix any non-vocal themes from any of these movies on one mix CD, it'd be difficult to tell it wasn't the soundtrack from just one movie. It doesn't bother me. You could mix and match bits of Beethoven symphonies the same way.

Mandalorian Candidat
07-22-2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by El Chuxter
I noticed there were similarities, but I wouldn't say they were the same. I think Across the Stars is closer to themes from Hook than the HP&TSS theme was to the CT music.


I was just about to throw my $0.02 about the Hook/ATS connection. The first time I heard it I just wanted to vomit. I hated Hook and this made me feel that EP2 would not bode well for me before I saw it.

I really love JW's stuff. I just bought the Skywalker Symphony and Raiders soundtrack CD's last Friday and was thrilled. However it seems that he's been scoring up a storm lately. I hope he takes a long break before EP3 so he doesn't get rushed into producing another ATS flop or just scores half a movie and recycles the rest of the music from a previous release.

DarthBrandon
07-22-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89
I myself didn't hear any resemblence whatsoever between the HP score and ANH but that's just me. I did really like the main theme to HP though; it captured the magical and slightly silly world of Harry Potter just perfectly.





It's the Vader or Imperial march I'm talking about.

pthfnder89
07-22-2002, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by brandon


It's the Vader or Imperial march I'm talking about.

Oh, I gotcha now.

JON9000
07-22-2002, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by pthfnder89


the last four or five films of Ridley Scott have all used VERY similar camera techniques; filters and masks on the camera that he likes. Gladiator and Black Hawk Down were both VERY obviously shot by the same person, but they were also wonderful and completely individual films in their own rights.



And it is a blatant rip off of "Saving Private Ryan." Perhaps the cinematography is done by the same person, but I doubt it.

As for John Williams, say what you want about his newer stuff, but he is an icon. And while some of his more bombastic stuff might seem to rehash, his more subtle themes are full of character.

The theme for the Jawas is a great example!

scruffziller
07-23-2002, 04:28 AM
I don't know I will have to watch it again and listen closely. I vaguely remeber something sounding similar. I also recall hearing them play it at Wal Mart for the advertising of the DVD release and when I heard it, I think I remembered thinking it was Star Wars....

Pendo
07-23-2002, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
Pendo, why don't you just add that to your signature line?

That would be too easy ;).

PENDO!

pthfnder89
07-23-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by JON9000
And it is a blatant rip off of "Saving Private Ryan." Perhaps the cinematography is done by the same person, but I doubt it.


True, the cinematography obviously takes a lot of it's influence from Saving Private Ryan, particularly during the fight sequences.

But both of those movies are still very, very good in their own right:)