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View Full Version : Who made a better Padawan? Who's the better Master?



Nebulaz
08-16-2002, 03:21 AM
Between EP1 Obi-Wan and EP2 Anakin.
Then, between EP1 Qui-Gon and EP2 Obi-Wan

Things to consider:

- Loyalty to master/padawan
- Connection with the living force
- Connection with unifying force
- Saber skills
- Combat readiness
- Temper
- Ethics with Jedi Order
- Responsiblities
- Self control in hostile situations
- Self control in friendly situations
- Relucences to new characters
- selfishness
- knowledge of the force

and if you have any other characteristics to consider tell us then give opinion.

I'll state my opinion later, after a few people post, i dont wanna spoil the water hole before any one dips in...

Pendo
08-16-2002, 06:40 AM
I think Obi-Wan was the better Padawan, he's not arrogant, selfish, or have an ego!
I think Qui-Gon was the better master because he didn't let Obi-Wan get like that, Obi-Wan should have done something earlier on to stop Anakin from getting like that but he never!

PENDO!

DeadEye
08-16-2002, 07:21 AM
Obi-Wan was the better apprentice and the better master. Qui-Gon wasn't good because of how Obi-Wan turned out, Obi-Wan was just a good kid. Remember, one of Qui-Gon's apprentices fell to the dark side. Obi-Wan did everything he could for Anakin--only Yoda could have kept him straight.

Darkross
08-16-2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by DeadEye
Obi-Wan was the better apprentice and the better master. Qui-Gon wasn't good because of how Obi-Wan turned out, Obi-Wan was just a good kid. Remember, one of Qui-Gon's apprentices fell to the dark side. Obi-Wan did everything he could for Anakin--only Yoda could have kept him straight.

Which apprentice was that? Are you referring to Anakin? I would hardly consider him Qui-Gon's apprentice...since the Jedi Council only gave Obi-Wan authorization to train him after Qui-Gon died...unless you consider his conversations with Anakin..."Be aware of the Living Force...trust your instincts!"

DeadEye
08-16-2002, 10:58 AM
According to EU, Xanatos was Qui-Gon's apprentice that fell to the dark side. Obi-Wan was his third one.

LTBasker
08-16-2002, 11:17 AM
I think this is only based on the movies though.

I'd say Obi-Wan was the better apprentice and Qui-Gon was the better master. Their relationship just seemed to be alot better than Obi-Wan and Anakin's and Qui-Gon seem to have more experiance than Obi-Wan got. Even if Obi-Wan had tried to stop Anakin from being so egotistical, it probably wouldn't of worked and wasn't really Obi-Wan's fault.

DeadEye
08-16-2002, 11:44 AM
Obi-Wan was certainly the best apprentice, but I think Obi-Wan was the better master. I mean, no master could really keep Anakin from falling. But Qui-Gon was a maverick, who disobeyed the Code and was not allowed onto the council. Obi-Wan followed the rules and did everything by the book, and would surely be on the council, had he ever become a Jedi Master.

LTBasker
08-16-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by DeadEye
Obi-Wan was certainly the best apprentice, but I think Obi-Wan was the better master. I mean, no master could really keep Anakin from falling. But Qui-Gon was a maverick, who disobeyed the Code and was not allowed onto the council. Obi-Wan followed the rules and did everything by the book, and would surely be on the council, had he ever become a Jedi Master.

True, but Obi-Wan looked up to him highly from what can be seen in Episode I, if his rogueness had truly made him a not-all-that-great master then I think Obi-Wan would have turned out quite differently. He was always making sure Obi-Wan's head was where it should have been and the council still had obvious respect for him even with his rebel side.

Nebulaz
08-16-2002, 04:01 PM
I too agree that obi wan was the better padawan and qui gon was the better master. As an apprentice, obi wan was disciplined and followed his masters orders whether he agreed with them or not. while anakin would shoot back at obi wan when there was a small sparring of words.

On the master side, qui gon gave obi wan lots of heads up on how he should be focused on the living force and telling him where his attention should be. gui gon would give obi wan instructions that would help him later as a knight while, obi wan as a master had his hands fulll reprimanding anakin and telling him that he'd get kick out of the jedi order for his actions.

darthvyn
08-17-2002, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker


True, but Obi-Wan looked up to him highly from what can be seen in Episode I, if his rogueness had truly made him a not-all-that-great master then I think Obi-Wan would have turned out quite differently. He was always making sure Obi-Wan's head was where it should have been and the council still had obvious respect for him even with his rebel side.

did he always make sure his head was in the right place? almost the OPENING LINE of the entire saga is qui-gon telling obi-wan to keep his concentration on the here and now, meaning obi-wan was sensing something other than that... elsewhere... elusive... the dark side! if qui-gon had let obi-wan feel more deeply into that feeling, they might have gotten some more insight into the machinations that were truly going on at that point in time.

still, i do feel that qui-gon was the better master, and that obi-wan was the better apprentice. obi-wan got stuck with a raw deal - he just became a jedi knight, and is thrust with the responsibility to train a boy who is headstrong and fearful, and already older than they would normally train a force adept. they were destined to fail as a master/apprentice team...

LTBasker
08-17-2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by darthvyn


did he always make sure his head was in the right place? almost the OPENING LINE of the entire saga is qui-gon telling obi-wan to keep his concentration on the here and now, meaning obi-wan was sensing something other than that... elsewhere... elusive... the dark side! if qui-gon had let obi-wan feel more deeply into that feeling, they might have gotten some more insight into the machinations that were truly going on at that point in time.

"I felt a great disturbance in the force... as if millions of voices had cried out and were suddenly silenced."

That was what he said about the Alderaan explosion, but instead of elaborating on it he dismissed it, probably because it could have just been something that he felt through the force which could've been anywhere in the universe, Qui-Gon in TPM most likely told him to keep his mind on what was going on because one, it was crucial that they talk to Nute and Rune about the whole situation, and two because it could've been anywhere and instead of elaborating on it when it could turn out that they could do nothing to help and possibly sacrifice the meeting from going into insight about it which could put a stop to what the Neimodians are up to. Plus there were plenty of other Jedi around, they most likely also thought that Jedi closer to it could've been more help.

dr_evazan22
08-18-2002, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by DeadEye
Obi-Wan followed the rules and did everything by the book, and would surely be on the council, had he ever become a Jedi Master.

Why didn't Obi ever become a Master? Was it b/c of what happened w/ Ani? There are some things you just can't control. Was it b/c the Council, if not all the Jedi, were wiped out?

I think that QJG was the better Master, just from what's been shown in E1 and E2. Obi was the better apprentice.

As for worst Master, that falls to Ani/DV in E4- "Once I was but the learner, now I am the Master!" Then Ani/DV took his Ginsu Saber and carved Obi in half.

DeadEye
08-18-2002, 08:49 AM
Obi-Wan didn't become a Master because his Padawan never made it to Knighthood.

patchiswelsh
08-18-2002, 12:57 PM
Obi-Wan was just cool as both

dr_evazan22
08-18-2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by DeadEye
Obi-Wan didn't become a Master because his Padawan never made it to Knighthood.

I've never heard of anything like this before... Is this something new? Obi was Ani's Master, whether Ani made it to Knighthood or not. Which at this point we don't know if that will happen or not.

I thought that attainment of a new level had something to do w/ the experiences that were built up.

Nebulaz
08-19-2002, 01:48 AM
For a Jedi Knight to reach the rankings of Jedi Master, the knight must have succeeded in training a padawan, which has become a Jedi Knight themselves. After the JK's padawan is a knight then the JK becomes a JM. Being a Jedi Master and a Master over an apprentice are two different titles. A JK is a master over a padawan, But is not a Jedi master until that padawan becomes a knight themselves. Understand? hopefully.

dr_evazan22
09-15-2002, 10:59 PM
From an article titled "Who's Who In The Jedi Order" is an entry for Saesee Tiin:

"... Tiin's master ... was slain 10 years before the Battle od Naboo, and Tiin was obsessed with using the Force to communicate with his dead master. He never trained an apprentice and rarely contributed to Council meetings, leading Mace Windu to privately question his value to that august body."

Another item of interest is the same article also states that Ki-Adi-Mundi achieved the level of Master by the time of AOTC. It's also worth noting that Ki was married and had kids (a concession made b/c of Cereans' low birth rate.

master jedi
09-16-2002, 03:20 PM
To help everybody make their decision on who the best master is just take one look at my avatar.