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View Full Version : Who thinks Darth maul makes a better sith lord than Tyranus?



maulrat22
08-18-2002, 05:46 PM
I really like Tyranus, especially because of his back story, but i would have love for Maul to have been the the sith apprentice for the new trilogy like Vader was in the classic trilogy. I know a lot of people dont like Maul because he was overplayed so much but i would rather seen another battle between obi-wan and maul in episode II. So what do you think?

Beast
08-18-2002, 06:00 PM
Darth Maul is overrated. He was nothing more then a snarling pit bull villian. He had no depth or charecter, he was just Sidious' lackey. I'm glad they hacked him in half in E1, so we could have a more dignified, refiend, and elegent villian. Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus is a more Classic Sith Lord, he matches alot better with Palpatine and Vader in the OT, then Maul did. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

master jedi
08-18-2002, 08:29 PM
I agree with Jar Jar. Maul is overrated They concentrated too much on his lightsaber techniques(sp?) and we didn't really get to know him.
We got to know Dooku a lot better than Maul and Dooku seems wiser but has misconceptions about the Force andother such things.

Pendo
08-19-2002, 06:41 AM
Emperor JarJarbinks has it perfectly. Maul had no character in the movie at all, all he could do was swing that lightsaber around. Dooku has character, a back story, and is more of a classic villain. He is also like Vader, it's not all fighting like it was for Maul, but it was talking, taunting, and great skill with the force. Dooku was the better Sith by far.

PENDO!

scruffziller
08-19-2002, 07:22 AM
Maul is all about asthetics. The cool EVIL look is all he is.

Master Goeweins
08-19-2002, 10:24 AM
Tyranus is so much better. He is even a fallen Jedi, where Maul was bred and raised in captivity to be a Sith stoolie. Maybe not entirely true, but Dooku added class and intellect to his sword fighting abilities. Awesome!

bigbarada
08-19-2002, 10:27 AM
Maul doesn't have the foreboding presence of Vader or Dooku. He was just a prancing lackey.

Mandalorian Candidat
08-19-2002, 10:30 AM
maulrat22 is in the minority here. Tyrannus definitely has panache, while DM is a 2D hitman who should have "Sith Life" tatooed in red and black ink across his chest.

Tyrannus is a gentlemanly opponent with the deviousness so needed in a good villain. DM is solely a pit bull who was pimp slapped with ease by both Qui Gon and OB1.

JediTricks
08-19-2002, 10:46 PM
IMO, Maul was a thug while Tyranus was more. However, both could have been better Sith simply with more dialogue AND a little exposition on their backstory (we even get a little of that on Vader in ANH so it had precedence):

- Maul should be painfully obvious as to what I mean there;
- However, Tyranus I think could have benefitted from a little verbal discussion about who he was, how he didn't fit in with the Jedi, maybe a little more Tarkin-esque dialogue. I thought it was a bit strained that a Jedi as far along as Dooku would switch sides without almost any discussed reason. He could have been in the previous film as a generic Jedi in the temple who Qui-Gon introduced his padawan to on their way back to Naboo if they wanted to give it a little more reasoning as to why Dooku and Qui-Gon both chose the paths they did. But even just an AOTC line or 2 about why Dooku was never comfortable as a Jedi or felt limited by the Jedi code would have helped there a lot.

Beast
08-19-2002, 10:52 PM
Well, JT. Alot more of Tyranus' background was revealed in the Library scene with Jocastu Nu. And supposedly Lucas feels that it never should have been cut anyway, since it talked about Qui-Gon and also why Dooku left the order. Hopefully since Lucas has had second thoughts about the scene's deletion, it will end up restored to the film. It really deserves to be. :)

Not to mention I assume that we will learn more about why in Episode III, since Dooku is supposed to return in that one as well. Im relatively sure that it's not quite as cut and dried as what Dooku told Obi-Wan. Alot of them sound like half truths to me, like maybe he has designs on taking out Sidious and becoming the big boss.

We know that he didn't like how the Jedi were used as a resource by the Senate. And since the Jedi Council wasn't willing to change that arrangement, he probably got sick of them. Remeber if Qui-Gon passed on his ideals to Obi-Wan, it makes since that could be a possibility. His mistrust of politicians could come from Qui-Gon, who got it from Dooku. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
08-20-2002, 09:46 PM
They could have easily cut several minutes from the Coruscant Chase or the "Sound of Music" Naboo scenes to make room for Jocasta Nu's explanation of Dooku's history.

JediTricks
08-20-2002, 11:25 PM
Any time you can show people eating in an action/adventure film could be used for something more important. Showing people eating is the cinematic equivelent of putting someone on hold.

Mandalorian Candidat
08-21-2002, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Showing people eating is the cinematic equivelent of putting someone on hold.

Obviously you've never seen 9 1/2 Weeks. Whew, what a scene with those strawberries!

I agree with JJB, I think Tyrannus' character as well as Palpatine's dark side will be revealed more in EP3 to "complete the circle" as it were of explaining the hostility of the two Sith Lords toward the Jedi Order. We're just getting little nibbles from EP1 and 2 of the plot against the JO and the Republic.

JediTricks
08-22-2002, 01:01 AM
ManCan, I did preface it with "action/adventure" film. :D

I personally feel that the initial exposition should *probably* come in the same movie that has introduced the focus of said exposition. To do otherwise here would be like Luke blowing up the Death Star in ANH and then having Dodonna explain the battle plan in ESB.

Beast
08-22-2002, 01:06 AM
All I can say for that JediTricks is the following:

Vader: "No Luke, I am your father" ;) :D

Can you imagine how much less impact that ESB would have had if they would have explained everything in that film. Leaving some mystery or questions in a planned series of movies just makes it much better. A better example:

Obi-Wan: "That boy is our last hope"

Yoda: "No, there is another"

Why does everything always have to be tied up with a perfect little bow in each movie. Especially when there is a sequel coming. You have to leave questions for the audience. If Lucas revealed everything in E2, why bother with E3? :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mandalorian Candidat
08-22-2002, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
All I can say for that JediTricks is the following:

Vader: "No Luke, I am your father" ;) :D

Can you imagine how much less impact that ESB would have had if they would have explained everything in that film. Leaving some mystery or questions in a planned series of movies just makes it much better. A better example:

Obi-Wan: "That boy is our last hope"

Yoda: "No, there is another"

Why does everything always have to be tied up with a perfect little bow in each movie. Especially when there is a sequel coming. You have to leave questions for the audience. If Lucas revealed everything in E2, why bother with E3? :D


I have to admit that I was wanting more explanation at the end of EP1 about some of the relationships between the Sith and Jedi and why the heck did Palpatine need to specifically pick on Naboo and other questions. Now after seeing EP2 I can see how GLu has set everything up to be answered (or almost answered) in the last installment and I'm glad there were questions left unanswered from EP1.

However, if he leaves a lot of stuff hanging and doesn't wrap up some plot lines after EP3 I will be sorely disappointed.

Adam
08-22-2002, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Darth Maul is overrated. He was nothing more then a snarling pit bull villian. He had no depth or charecter, he was just Sidious' lackey. I'm glad they hacked him in half in E1, so we could have a more dignified, refiend, and elegent villian. Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus is a more Classic Sith Lord, he matches alot better with Palpatine and Vader in the OT, then Maul did. :)


I'm going to have to dissagree with you here JJB. You used the words dignified, refiend, and elegent to describe Dooku, which is true of course. But you put Vader and Palpatine in those same categories which just doesn't work out IMO.


Dooku: Very dignified. Sharp millitaryish ( in the SW universe anyway ) costume. Brown cape for a kind charismatic effect, a la LSilkySmooth (Lando). Unique, stylish lightsaber.

Vader: The man has buttons and knobs on his chest. He breaths through a creepy looking mask and makes a creepy noise doing it. And his cape isn't there to help his charisma.

Palpatine: Black robes. Wrinkles. Yello Eyes. Scary.

Maul: Black robes. Red Tattoed Face. Horns. Red Eyes. Scary.

So really, I think Maul is more like the sith of "old" than Dooku/Tyranus is. Vader/Palp seem to have a fear inducing image, which works for the Sith. Maul has that too. Dooku on the other hand, does not look like that, but then again, he was trying to gather support for his "cause" , not trying to scare people away. But from what we've seen of him so far, Maul seems to be more or a Sith then Dooku.

And while Dooku does have depth and character, he too is just Sidious's lackey. :)

JediTricks
08-22-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
All I can say for that JediTricks is the following:

Vader: "No Luke, I am your father" ;) :D

Can you imagine how much less impact that ESB would have had if they would have explained everything in that film. Leaving some mystery or questions in a planned series of movies just makes it much better. A better example:

Obi-Wan: "That boy is our last hope"

Yoda: "No, there is another"

Why does everything always have to be tied up with a perfect little bow in each movie. Especially when there is a sequel coming. You have to leave questions for the audience. If Lucas revealed everything in E2, why bother with E3? I'm not talking about everything, I'm talking about initial exposition of a character or event, the groundwork for Vader to surprise Luke with "I am your father" had to be laid in ANH, so your example doesn't hold water IMO. If Luke hadn't talked with Obi-Wan in ANH about his father being a big enigma in his life, Vader's statement in ESB would have been flat like Dr Evil's identical statement in Austin Powers 2 (as comedy, it works because it's a parody; but as a dramatic point, it's clear that it has no weight behind it, they even make a joke about THAT). Without exposition to support Maul, he'd just be a guy with a black and red face and a double-bladed lightsaber, he'd be a cinematic black hole.

Darth Tyranus is nearly context-free, he barely has the same level of canonical context as Maul and Maul was a blip! It's only through Tyranus' actions, and his and other supportive dialogue that we know anything about the character until the end of the film, and there's far too little of this exposition to support the character IMO. He could DEFINITELY have used more in the film he came in on, he's not as much a question mark as he is faint signpost. If he had less of the film's plot resting on his shoulders, I could probably excuse this, but he has a LOT.

KIDD
08-23-2002, 12:00 AM
i think maul is by far the better sith

Jayspawn
08-23-2002, 12:38 AM
I'm really a huge fan of Darth Tyranus/ Count Dooku. I really like Darth Maul, but he has a problem keeping himself together. But really, Dooku is really smart, he plans things. He seems to be evil without showing it.

Adam
08-23-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Jayspawn
I really like Darth Maul, but he has a problem keeping himself together.

:D :crazed: