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View Full Version : The Two Towers and Return of the King **SPOILERS!!!**



bigbarada
08-19-2002, 11:39 AM
Just wanted to discuss some things with people who have read the books without ruining it for anyone trying to avoid spoilers.

First off, some shocking news (to me at least); I've just heard that the Shelob's Lair sequence has been moved to ROTK, so it won't be the climax of TTT like I thought it would. At first I was a little disappointed, but the more I think about it the more comfortable I am with the idea.

Think about all the stuff that TTT has to cover: intros of Gollum, Eomer, Faramir, Theoden, Treebeard, Wormtongue and Eowyn; the Ents marching on Isenguard (which I've heard has been filmed but no one knows yet if it will be in the final cut); the Window on the West and Forbidden Pool scenes; Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli's hunt for Merry and Pippin; all this and a 50 minute battle at Helm's Deep. So I am pretty sure that PJ made the right decision with Shelob's Lair.

Now for some ideas about ROTK: How do you suppose PJ will handle the entire Scouring of the Shire plotline? Once Gollum dies with the Ring and the Hobbits head home, do you think the movie will immediately cut to Frodo and Bilbo's journey West with Gandalf and Elrond? Or will we see Saruman's destruction of the Shire out of spite, like in the book? I'm pretty sure we will see it in some respect, unless PJ plans to rewrite Saruman's death completely (remember he is stabbed by Wormtongue while in the Shire).

Well, that's all for now, if anyone is interested in joining the LOTR toy and movie discussion at www.lordoftheringsguide.com , I go by the name Son of Gloin in the forums there.

One last thing, for anyone wondering if the Oliphaunts would make it into the film, well here is a pic of a dead one (look at the size of that thing!):

hango fett
08-19-2002, 02:29 PM
sounds sweet! i can't wait for both of them!
h

robman71
08-19-2002, 03:45 PM
I am still disappointed with the whole Shelob in ROTK (I think that the cliffhanger thing would generate a lot of excitement for the next movie). I would like to see the whole crowing of Aragorn, marriage of Aragorn and Arwen, the Funeral of Theoden, of and the Scouring of the Shire. If the battle of Helms Deep is 50 minutes in TTT, then how long will the battle of the Pelonor Fields run in ROTK.

JON9000
08-19-2002, 03:57 PM
I think we will definitely see the scouring of the Shire. Although it might be a little anti- climatic after the destruction of the ring. It gives you an idea how far the Hobbits have come over their journey, how much they have grown. I do not remember TT all that well, I remember thinking that the parts with Sam and Frodo were not quite as exciting as the others. I think Sam and Frodo, without the Shelob scene, will be relegated to the back burner. I am a bit concerned with how well Treebeard will come out in CGI. He's a tree- how do you make it move naturally?

bigbarada
08-19-2002, 04:00 PM
I think PJ was a little nervous about "killing off" Frodo at the end of the second movie then showing that it was all a mistake in the third movie. Some people would see it as a cheap ploy. Of course, he could have shown Sam taking the Ring and the Orcs running off with Frodo's body and mentioning something about him being in a coma, not dead, then roll with the end credits. That would be cool, yet incredibly frustrating.:)

I still can't figure out how TTT will end without Shelob though. The battle at Helm's Deep takes place more or less in the middle of the story, because they still have to deal with Saruman after the fall of Isenguard and get the Palintir. Maybe it will end with Gandalf and Pippin riding to Minas Tirith while Sam and Frodo are being led to Cirith Ungol by Gollum. Seems kind of anticlimatic though. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

bigbarada
08-19-2002, 04:22 PM
Here's a pic that proves that, if nothing else, scenes taking place after the destruction of the Ring were filmed. This is Sam with his daughter (presumably a few years after they return to the Shire).

bigbarada
08-19-2002, 04:25 PM
Here's a pic of Merry swearing his allegiance to King Theoden, just before the battle of Pellinor fields, IIRC. This was actually in one of the early trailers for FOTR.

robman71
08-19-2002, 04:26 PM
It is good to know that at least PJ has given some thought to following the ending of the story as faithful to the book. I really hate when a movie or a book ends right after the action climax and there are all these loose ends to tie up. I always thought that the end of LOTR was extremely well written in tying up all the loose ends.

JON9000
08-20-2002, 06:42 PM
I wonder if they will tell the unabridged story of how Gollum/Smeagol came to possess the ring. I always thought it was an interesting story and would like to see a flashback.

bigbarada
08-20-2002, 07:57 PM
Well, Toy Biz has plans to make action figures of Smeagol and his companion in a two-pack. So I guess that is about as close to proof as we can get that the true story of how Gollum got the Ring will be shown in the movie.

bigbarada
08-20-2002, 11:59 PM
Here's even better proof that we will see Smeagol and Deagol's story.:cool:

bigbarada
08-21-2002, 12:01 AM
Here's a close-up of Smeagol. I found these on the LordoftheRingsGuide forums.

JesusFreak
08-21-2002, 12:33 AM
Great Pics Bigb, I think shelob in ROTK will work out good since PJ said that in TTT the scenes with frodo and the scenes with the others will go back and forth instead of being split. I bet that one of the last scenes will be when Gandalf breaks Sarumans staff and everything, not a frodo and sam scene.

BTW I registered at the lotr guide under the name "Satoshi"

Beast
08-21-2002, 12:38 AM
Cool pics BIgB. I had been trying to avoid spoilers, but it ended up not really mattering after all. Plus just like Star Wars I was getting ravenous for info so I had to. I held out longer then I thought I could.

I was thinking of signing up for LOTR'sguide.com as well, but I suck at coming up with good names. Takes me ages to figure out one that I want. And then usually they are taken. :p :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
08-21-2002, 01:07 AM
More cool stuff:

Eomer with Wormtongue

bigbarada
08-21-2002, 01:09 AM
Frodo and Sam captured by Gondorians.

bigbarada
08-21-2002, 01:10 AM
Gandalf the White

bigbarada
08-21-2002, 01:12 AM
And Ugluk the Uruk Hai captain

JesusFreak
08-21-2002, 04:18 PM
Kinda off-topic but have you seen the extended fotr dvd box when it's opened, looks sweet doesnt it? :D

Beast
08-21-2002, 04:24 PM
Nice new picture of the 4-disc DVD set, JesusFreak. Feel free to post a link to the attachment in the LOTR's DVD thread. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JesusFreak
08-21-2002, 04:27 PM
I can't get into that thread, whenever I try to go to the main movies: other forum I get an error message, so I bookmarked this topic so I can get into it

Beast
08-21-2002, 04:39 PM
That's weird. Well, I'll post a link and give you credit for the picture. Just for the people that won't check this thread because of spoilers. Again, thanks for the picture. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

hango fett
08-21-2002, 08:30 PM
awsome pics, big b and jesusfreak. thanks! can't wait for TTT!
h

scruffziller
08-22-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by bigbarada
Gandalf the White

AH IT'S HIPPIE TREELOVING DOOKU!!!!!!!!
LOOK AT THAT WHITE WOODEN LIGHTSABER!!!!!!:D

It is funny to show FOTR to someone who has never even heard of this story. THey get so diappointed when they find out throwing the ring into the volcano doesn't come till later in the other movies.

Hey burping after injesting Cod liver pills tastes like I am smelling paint thinner????:sur: :confused:

Geonosian
08-23-2002, 07:17 AM
TTT will be sooo AWESOME!!
Helms deep 50 mins long WOW!!

bigbarada
08-23-2002, 11:18 AM
My dad was a little disappointed that we didn't see the Ring destroyed in FOTR also, scruffziller. I had to explain to him that the Ring wouldn't be destroyed until the third movie (my dad is a history movie buff; so, like me, he likes to know the outcome of any movie before he watches it).

Glad to see you're back Geonosian. Always hate to lose a fellow LOTR fan on these forums.:cool:

Here's a pic of Eowyn in front of the keep at Edoras:

Geonosian
08-23-2002, 07:29 PM
Thanks BigB.
Iam very looking forward to seeing the Ents martch and kill orcs!!

bigbarada
08-23-2002, 11:17 PM
From what I have heard so far, we most likely will not actually see the Ents attacking Isenguard. I think we will just see them marching towards it and then it will cut to another scene. I don't think there were too many orcs to kill for the Ents, since Saruman had them all commited to attacking Helm's Deep. I'll have to scan through the book again to see, though.

I really can't wait to see how the Ents turned out, myself.

JesusFreak
08-23-2002, 11:52 PM
As I recall it doesnt actually describe the ents fighting in the books. It just has them marching to isengard, could be wrong though

Geonosian
08-24-2002, 08:56 PM
I really hope we see some Ents kick orc butt!

bigbarada
08-24-2002, 09:32 PM
Sorry to break it to you, but don't count on it. The Ents advance on Isenguard after the orc legions march off to Helm's Deep. The few remaining scatter at the sight of the Ents. The Ents and Hourns scare the crap out of the orcs and the only weapons they have against them are axes and fire. Fire being the deadliest and most painful death for an Ent (one goes up in flames in the book, not sure if we will see it in the movie). Axes are pretty bad too, but it would take many, many axe blows to kill an Ent, and you can guarantee that anyone who hits an Ent with an axe once will never get a chance to swing a second time.:)

Geonosian
08-25-2002, 04:58 AM
True, do you think Quickbeam will get burnt and die?
What are Hourns?

bigbarada
08-25-2002, 12:40 PM
Beechbone is the name of the Ent who was set on fire, in the book.

The Huorns are a little harder to describe, so I will use Merry's description from the book:

"It was the Huorns, or so the Ents call them in "short language". Treebeard won't say much about them, but I think they are Ents that have become almost like trees, at least to look at. They stand here and there in the wood or under it's eaves, silent, watching endlessly over the trees; but deep in the darkest dales there are hundreds and hundreds of them, I believe.

"There is a great power in them, and they seem able to wrap themselves in shadow; it is difficult to see them moving. But they do. They can move very quickly, if they are angry. You stand still looking at the weather, maybe, or listening to the rustling of the wind, and then suddenly you find that you are in the middle of a wood with great groping trees all around you. They still have voices, and can speak with the Ents -- that is why they are called Huorns, Treebeard says -- but they have become queer and wild. Dangerous. I should be terrified of meeting them, if they were no true Ents about to look after them."

(I seriously hope the autocensor doesn't edit out the word q u e e r or replace it with 'fairy'. Back when this book was written, that word simply meant "strange.")

Anyways, I haven't really heard anything about the Huorns being in the movie at all, so I am not sure. A big group of them appears behind the orc armies at Helm's Deep and the orcs who run to them for cover from the Roharians are never seen again.

bigbarada
08-26-2002, 11:30 AM
Just found this at TORN (theonering.net) and thought I would pass it along. It is a list of all the known deviations from the book of TTT, along with a credibility rating and the source of the rumor.

http://www.tolkienonline.com/movies/changes_ttt.cfm

The bad news, according to these rumors: Saruman and Wormtongue die at the end of TTT, and the Scouring of the Shire is beginning to look like it will never happen in the movies. Also we will most likely see a detachment of Elves fighting at Helm's Deep and Arwen supposedly brings the reforged Narcil to Aragorn at the end of Helm's Deep. Oh yeah, no Huorns either.

There's much more so go check it out. Of course, there are major movie spoilers here that have nothing to do with the book either. So be warned.

JesusFreak
08-26-2002, 11:47 AM
Darn, if they die at the end of TTT, then there would be no real point of having the Scouring of the Shire. Though it would make a better overall movie if gthey died in this one. BTW great find BigB!

bigbarada
08-26-2002, 12:19 PM
I think TTT will be a more satisfying film if Saruman and Grima die at the end. This would also allow ROTK to focus solely on Sauron. Although it hurts the overall integrity of the series to stray so far from the books. But I do understand the cinematic necessity for something like this (more dynamic, more focused, more concise).

Oh well, PJ did say that this was going to be his version of LOTR, so changes like this should be expected. We will see how he handles it.

RooJay
08-26-2002, 06:56 PM
DUDE! I can't wait! I am so freaking out now since the DVD was released! I haven't been this excited about a serious of films since...well, STAR WARS!

The True Maul
08-26-2002, 07:55 PM
Thanks BigB for posting the pics!!! Can't wait to see the movie!!!:)

Geonosian
08-28-2002, 01:41 AM
No quickbeam!!!!!!!


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooOOoOoo!