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Darkross
09-11-2002, 11:36 AM
Ok...I need a (hand) on this one....:D

So we all know that at the end of ROTJ that the Emperor bids Luke to join him by destroying his father Darth Vader. During that moment...Luke looks at his hand and realizes that he now has his fathers hand RIGHT? Well answer me this...if Anakin lost most of his right arm in AOTC...how would Luke get his father's hand in ROTJ? And if he got his father's hand in ROTJ...then which hand did he get? Anakin's hand from 20 years ago...or the mechanical one he just cut off of Vader?

Pendo
09-11-2002, 11:42 AM
I think you have misunderstood this scene. Luke did not get his father's hand. The reason why Luke looks at his hand like thast is because he has just realised a few things. First, he is turning mechanical like Vader did, hence Luke's mechanical hand. Second, Luke has just realised that he used his anger against Vader and got his revenge for cutting off his hand. Luke can see that he is slowly turning into Vader. But Luke doesn't give up to the darkside as vader would have in that situation.
Vader's hand does NOT attatch itself to Luke :crazed:, and you can see vader carrying his hand a bit later on.

PENDO!

Darkross
09-11-2002, 11:50 AM
Ok...I've always believed...well at least for the past 15 years or so...that Luke got Vader's hand at the end of ROTJ. I guess I never looked at it from the standpoint of Luke realizing that he was slowly turning into Vader....but I did consider that he used his anger to get revenge for Vader cutting off his hand. I always assumed that Luke got Vader's hand at the end of ROTJ, as it was a gift from the Emperor (showing-off his POWER to Luke by giving him something no-one else could) as he bid Luke to join him.

Who else out there thinks / thought that Luke got Vader's hand at the end of ROTJ?

The Overlord Returns
09-11-2002, 12:24 PM
so the emperor, at the end of rotj, gave luke vaders hand, eventhough vader tossed the emperor down the damn shaft?

Is that what you're saying? Or do you mean at the end of ESB?

Either way.....what Pendo said is the exact way the scene goes down. Luke realizes, when he sees that his fathers hand is as false and mechanical as his, that he is becoming vader, and turning to the darkside....at this moment, he refuses the dark side....and returns to the light.

El Chuxter
09-11-2002, 01:05 PM
There's a line in (I believe) the ROTJ Storybook that says something to the effect of "Luke looked at his father and then at his own mechanical hand. 'I'm turning into him,' he thought."

evenflow
09-11-2002, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
I think you have misunderstood this scene. :crazed:
PENDO!

Exactly.

Lord Malakite
09-11-2002, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
I think you have misunderstood this scene. Luke did not get his father's hand. The reason why Luke looks at his hand like thast is because he has just realised a few things. First, he is turning mechanical like Vader did, hence Luke's mechanical hand. Second, Luke has just realised that he used his anger against Vader and got his revenge for cutting off his hand. Luke can see that he is slowly turning into Vader. But Luke doesn't give up to the darkside as vader would have in that situation.
Vader's hand does NOT attatch itself to Luke :crazed:, and you can see vader carrying his hand a bit later on.

PENDO!

Actually, I don't think his anger was caused by loosing his hand, but more by what Vader said. He said that he was going to turn his sister, Leia to the darkside if he wouldn't join. The fear of loosing her lead to his anger. His anger fed his his hate of Vader. That hate caused him to strike down Vader, thus leading to the suffering of his father.

Rogue II
09-11-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by El Chuxter
There's a line in (I believe) the ROTJ Storybook that says something to the effect of "Luke looked at his father and then at his own mechanical hand. 'I'm turning into him,' he thought."
That's what I always thought.

I've been many times in the past, but, didn't Vader's hand an lightsaber fall down the shaft? Vader was leaning against the railing when Luke cut his hand off.

I think I'll watch ROTJ again this weekend and really pay close attention to that scene.

mini-rock
09-11-2002, 09:04 PM
I believe it did fall down the shaft, since no where in that scene do we see Vader pick it up. I'm gonna have to watch it this weekend.

edit - Just watched it and you can clearly see the hand fall on the shaft side of the rail, not land on the platform next to Vader.

Pendo
09-12-2002, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Lord_Malakite

Originally posted by Pendo
I think you have misunderstood this scene. Luke did not get his father's hand. The reason why Luke looks at his hand like thast is because he has just realised a few things. First, he is turning mechanical like Vader did, hence Luke's mechanical hand. Second, Luke has just realised that he used his anger against Vader and got his revenge for cutting off his hand. Luke can see that he is slowly turning into Vader. But Luke doesn't give up to the darkside as vader would have in that situation.
Vader's hand does NOT attatch itself to Luke , and you can see vader carrying his hand a bit later on.

PENDO!

Actually, I don't think his anger was caused by loosing his hand, but more by what Vader said. He said that he was going to turn his sister, Leia to the darkside if he wouldn't join. The fear of loosing her lead to his anger. His anger fed his his hate of Vader. That hate caused him to strike down Vader, thus leading to the suffering of his father.

I agree that the fear of loosing Leia was what caused Luke to be angry. I just didn't word it very well, I'm crap at English :rolleyes:.

PENDO!

The Overlord Returns
09-12-2002, 12:41 PM
The hand fell down the shaft....you can see it falling as luke grabs on to the weather vane.

And yes, Luke got angry at the proposed threat to his sister....

Vader played him like a harp...

Pendo
09-12-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
The hand fell down the shaft....you can see it falling as luke grabs on to the weather vane.

You DO know we're talking about ROTJ, right? We're talking about Vader's hand. Vader's hand doesn't fall down the shaft because he picks it up and starts carying it. They when he picks up the Emperor and throws him down the shaft he drops his hand, which you can clearly see on a container when he's leaning against them. I'll try and find a pic somewhere.

PENDO!

The Overlord Returns
09-12-2002, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Pendo


You DO know we're talking about ROTJ, right? We're talking about Vader's hand. Vader's hand doesn't fall down the shaft because he picks it up and starts carying it. They when he picks up the Emperor and throws him down the shaft he drops his hand, which you can clearly see on a container when he's leaning against them. I'll try and find a pic somewhere.

PENDO!

WHAT!!

I am going to have to see that puic...as I don't recall ANYTHING like that at all....

I assumed someone mistakenly thought Vader held on to Lukes hand.......

which ofcourse, also, did not happen.

Pendo
09-12-2002, 01:49 PM
Ok you can't see the hand on this picture, but if you look closely on this scene of the movie you will clearly see Vader's hand.

PENDO!

Beast
09-12-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
The hand fell down the shaft....you can see it falling as luke grabs on to the weather vane.
Just a quick comment about this post. What you see falling when Luke grabs the weather vane is not Luke's hand. It's a piece of the weather vane that got broken off when Luke hit it and grabbed hold. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

The Overlord Returns
09-12-2002, 02:16 PM
hmm...always assumed it was the hand....

Beast
09-12-2002, 02:29 PM
Nope, I think that StarWars.com's "Ask the Jedi Council" even addressed it at one time. Plus if you have a high quality copy of the film, like the Laserdiscs you can tell that it's just a piece of the weather vane. The hand and lightsaber became a plot point in the EU also. Not sure if you like or dislike the EU or not, but here you go, a quick re-cap.

In the Timothy Zhan EU novel, "Star Wars: The Last Command", they expanded on Luke's missing hand. Vader has his Nogri guards search Cloud City. They end up finding Luke's hand still clutching his lightsaber in one of the smelting areas, like where Chewie found C-3PO.

Vader presents the hand to Palpatine along with the saber and he keeps it, even though Vader wanted it as a trophy. Plus I'm sure that he wanted his old lightsaber as a memento. Sometime after the Battle of Endor, Luke faces a clone of himself named Luuke that is using his father's lightsaber. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

mini-rock
09-12-2002, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
Ok you can't see the hand on this picture, but if you look closely on this scene of the movie you will clearly see Vader's hand.

PENDO!

Are you sure? I just watched this scene about 40 times, and I still can't see Vaders hand.:confused: Can you pin point the exact location of his hand in this scene?

Pendo
09-12-2002, 03:02 PM
Try looking a bit further on (about 20 seconds) when Vader's breathing isn't too good, and Luke walks up to him. You can clearly see the hand on the containers.

PENDO!

The Overlord Returns
09-12-2002, 03:08 PM
yes...I remember the whole Luuke thing......


well.....I guess there's always room for new SW knowledge!

Pendo
09-12-2002, 03:31 PM
Ok, now I feel stupid. I've just watched the scene to confirm that his hand is there, and what I thought was his hand isn't :rolleyes:. I feel so stupid :(. I'm sorry everybody :(.

...anyway...

:frus:

PENDO!

Beast
09-12-2002, 03:49 PM
It's ok Pendo. We all make mistakes, trust me. People's minds can play tricks on them with movies. That's why some people claim to this day to have seen the Luke/Biggs scenes in ANH at some point. Even though it has never been a part of the film presentation. And that has even been confirmed by Lucasfilm. :)

More intresting is that people claim that they remeber Leatherface spiking that woman on the hook in Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and seeing the hook go in her back. Yet in actuality the camera switches positions right as he's about to hook her and you see her reacting to getting hung on the hook. :)

It also happened with Hannibal and the brain scene. People claim that they actually saw Hannibal cut into Krendler's brain and remove a piece, then toss it into the pan to cook. Yet in reality, as soon as Dr. Lector goes to make the cut the camera changes to a different position and you never see the cut made. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Pendo
09-12-2002, 03:52 PM
...or like me claiming to have see a load of scenes in TPM that no other person has :rolleyes:. I DID SEE THEM!!! HONEST!!! :D

PENDO!

Rogue II
09-12-2002, 04:36 PM
I'm wrong all of the time Pendo.

So, Vader's hand falls down the shaft?

Pendo
09-12-2002, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Rogue II
So, Vader's hand falls down the shaft?

I persume so! It makes more sense than it magically flying over to the containers :rolleyes:.

PENDO!

The Overlord Returns
09-12-2002, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Rogue II
I'm wrong all of the time Pendo.

So, Vader's hand falls down the shaft?

Yep....just after the scene where Luke kills the emperor ;)

mini-rock
09-12-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns


Yep....just after the scene where Luke kills the emperor ;)

But Luke DID kill the Emperor!! RIGHT?!:crazed:

No biggie Pendo, glad we got it cleared up. :)

Dark Lord Kakorotto
09-29-2002, 03:31 PM
ummmmmm...Luke looks at HIS mechanical hand and has a realization. He's taking his father's place at the emperor's side. He lashed out with his anger and hatred and thus defeating Vader. his hand reminds him of his recent failure and strenghthens him.