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Darkross
09-18-2002, 11:01 AM
When Vader is speaking to Luke in ROTJ and replies to Luke's becconing to come with him...

Vader says: "Obi-Wan once thought as you do...YOU DON'T KNOW the power of the DARKSIDE...I MUST OBEY my master!"

What exactly is Vader telling Luke? Does the Darkside command so much of Vader that he cannot go betray his Master? Does the Emperor have a stronghold on Vader? Can someone explain this????

The Overlord Returns
09-18-2002, 12:01 PM
Clearly not, as Vader ends up tossing the emperor to his doom.

El Chuxter
09-18-2002, 12:14 PM
The line serves mainly to illustrate the conflict within Vader. He clearly feels a connection to his son--having let him survive after Bespin and, around the time of this line, admiring his lightsaber. But he's been trained to obey Palpatine without question (possibly due to the trend for Sith Apprentices to betray their Masters).

I think Luke's response ("Then my father truly is dead") is what makes the conflict apparent to Vader. Before that line, it's there but he isn't aware of it. But Luke's somewhat callous reply hits Vader like a ton of bricks, making him aware that he is no longer the young Jedi Knight he once was, but an unquestioning agent of evil (a la Darth Maul).

mini-rock
09-18-2002, 02:45 PM
Right after Luke says that line, and is taken away by the Stormtroopers, Vader turns around obviously hurt by Luke's remark.

Jayspawn
09-19-2002, 10:33 AM
El Chuxter said it all.

Thats true. "Then my Farth is truely dead." That line get Vader and the audience thinking. It also seems apparent to me that Vader is still thinking about that in the Emperor's thrown room. I think that scene is one of my favorite in 'Jedi'.

Pendo
09-19-2002, 05:35 PM
I heard that Vader's "I must obey my master" line is being changed for the Archival Edition.
It will now say "I must obey the crab!"

hehehehe, a Monkey Maker. :D

PENDO!

chewie
09-19-2002, 10:11 PM
Vader went to the dark side and killed lots of people in his rage. The Rebels would treat Vader as we treat war criminals.

I think the turn to the dark side happens once a murder is commited using the force. And as such, the law of man/aliens will still haunt a force user regardless of whether they use their power for good from there on out. Which is why Vader felt it was too late for him.

Darkross
09-20-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by chewie
Vader went to the dark side and killed lots of people in his rage. The Rebels would treat Vader as we treat war criminals.

I think the turn to the dark side happens once a murder is commited using the force. And as such, the law of man/aliens will still haunt a force user regardless of whether they use their power for good from there on out. Which is why Vader felt it was too late for him.

Interesting take on this quote...however...does that mean that Anakin turned to the darkside in EPISODE II when he slaughtered the Tusken Raiders? Or did he have to use the force to defeat them?

The Overlord Returns
09-20-2002, 11:06 AM
I assume by murder you mean innocents?

Because if you don't....that would make every jedi at the battle of geonosis a murderer (save yoda), and Luke skywalker would also be a murderer.

chewie
09-21-2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Darkross


Interesting take on this quote...however...does that mean that Anakin turned to the darkside in EPISODE II when he slaughtered the Tusken Raiders? Or did he have to use the force to defeat them?
This wasn't quite the same as killing other sentient life forms. Cliegg and Anakin surmise them as animals. Apparently everybody else does as well. No real "crime" was committed in the slaughter. And on a near lawless planet governed by the Hutts, real sentient creature murder probably goes unnoticed by everyone.

Anakin definitely used the force to kill the Tuskens. He would never have been able to sneak into camp otherwise. And nobody would call him to justice for this infraction. If it wasn't his turn to the dark side, it definitely was a large beginning.

chewie
09-21-2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I assume by murder you mean innocents?

Because if you don't....that would make every jedi at the battle of geonosis a murderer (save yoda), and Luke skywalker would also be a murderer.

Luke and the other Jedi killed out of self defense. Not murder.

Dark Lord Kakorotto
09-29-2002, 02:26 PM
Vader's lines in question represented his conflicting emotions. He doesn't want to take the blame. He blames the dark side. Finally he gives up and releases him grip on the dark side therefore ending his prolonged life but saving his prosperity

Yoda-Wan
11-05-2002, 09:58 PM
That is by far the best scene, not just in ROTJ, but in a Star Wars movie to date. It reflects the deeper side of Star Wars, the spiritual side if you will.

I think that one line about Obeying his master showed the brainwashing that the Dark Side has. He's so brainwashed, he doesn't understand, or accept what he truely wants to do. I think he shows that his real weakness is his son. Think about in ESB, Vader didn't try to get Luke to try and join he and the Emperor, he wanted Luke to join him and destroy the Emperor.

I always took the whole Line...."You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I must Obey my master" as one thought as opposed to 2. Almost as a giving up or pleading line. As in "The Dark Side has such a hold on me, I have no choice but to obey"

JON9000
11-06-2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Darkross
Vader says: "Obi-Wan once thought as you do...YOU DON'T KNOW the power of the DARKSIDE...I MUST OBEY my master!"

What exactly is Vader telling Luke? Does the Darkside command so much of Vader that he cannot go betray his Master? Does the Emperor have a stronghold on Vader? Can someone explain this????

I think Vader and the Emperor use their powers to keep each other alive. I think proof lies in the statement made by Anakin in AOTC- "I will learn to keep people from dying." If they both have that mutualistic relationship going, it would explain a lot!

gibbspaulus
11-07-2002, 10:29 AM
Yoda-wan sums it up perfectly - it goes even better if you substitute the words Dark Side with a class A drug.

Or another re-definition is

"it's so powerful, I can't fight it, I HAVE to obey to save my self"

Yoda-Wan
11-10-2002, 08:15 PM
this is your brain, this is your brain on the dark side........

Your exactly right gibb. Most people take drugs because they think it gives them something they're missing. But quickly it overtakes them.

The same witht he darkside. Anankin so far seems to be occupied with prominence and power. That is not the way of the Jedi, that is the way of the Sith. They want domination and control and quaking at the sight of them. That more than likely appealed to Anakin who wants to follow his heart.

But once in, he cant get out. It has him. How many times has drug attics said, "I can't stop, it's too late for me."

JON9000
03-13-2005, 07:36 PM
I think Vader and the Emperor use their powers to keep each other alive. I think proof lies in the statement made by Anakin in AOTC- "I will learn to keep people from dying." If they both have that mutualistic relationship going, it would explain a lot!

I am convinced, after watching the 60 minutes footage, that this is the power that the Jedi cannot teach.

Slicker
03-13-2005, 07:46 PM
Hence why Yoda would say "Strong am I with the force, but not that strong" when Luke says that he can't die. I've long thought that Palpy and to a lesser extent Vader are both kept alive by the Dark Side.

darthvyn
03-15-2005, 04:34 PM
Hence why Yoda would say "Strong am I with the force, but not that strong" when Luke says that he can't die. I've long thought that Palpy and to a lesser extent Vader are both kept alive by the Dark Side.

but at the same time, they are prematurely decaying. i mean, look at the emperor: he looks like they dug up a corpse and put a big black robe on him! i also seem to remember hearing as much in an interview with GLu, either on tv or in a magazine. he says that the dark side is a powerful energy, so powerful that it in fact corrupts the organic tissues of the sith.