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View Full Version : What was Luke's failure in the cave in ESB?



Obi-Wan-A-Bi
09-22-2002, 06:54 AM
What did yoda mean when he told luke "Remember your failure in the cave"? What was he suppose to do?

The Overlord Returns
09-22-2002, 02:12 PM
A: he failed in taking weapons in the first place.

B: He then let his fears get the better of him in the cave. He gave in to them.

I think....

Pendo
09-22-2002, 03:23 PM
...And he used his anger to defeat Vader.

PENDO!

187-Maul
09-22-2002, 03:27 PM
I agree on that anger thing too
Luke looked really angry when he sliced vaders head off

Obi-Wan-A-Bi
09-22-2002, 06:20 PM
Didn't Yoda have an angry look on his face when he was fighting Dooku?

Darth Sidious
09-22-2002, 08:41 PM
I thought he looked more serious than angry. He looked like he was concentrating hard. But I don't think he was angry.

stillakid
09-22-2002, 10:18 PM
I'm going to go with curtain C, Alex, and say "Fear." Luke was afraid. That's why he took his weapons with him in the first place. That's the emotion he clearly exhibited when the visage of Vader appeared from the shadows. Not only that, "Fear" is one of Yoda's mantra's concerning the Force from the Prequels to ESB. Fear. Fear. Fear. Luke said that he wouldn't be afraid. Yoda replied, "You will be...you will be." And poof! He was. He failed the test and saw his own face in the apparition of Vader. His own greatest enemy...was himself. That's the lesson of the cave.

Pendo
09-23-2002, 04:55 PM
Nice one stillakid :D. I think you have it spot on :).

I've never thought of his face being in Vader's mask meaning he was his own enemy :D. Certainly changed the way I watch that scene now :D.

PENDO!

jjreason
09-23-2002, 05:08 PM
I see Luke's face in the mask representative of two things:

1) If Luke were to face Vader at this point in his training, it would be his head lying lifeless on the ground in the end

2) forshadowing the revelation of Luke's genes being behind the mask as per the scene near the end of the film.

Either way, Luke's failure at the cave was multifaceted and complete. He took weapons in against Yoda's advice, he attacked the apparition as opposed to using the force to defend himself, and he displayed outward fear and aggression. Not very Jedi-like at all. Oh well, lesson well learned I guess.

Dark Lord Kakorotto
09-29-2002, 03:20 PM
Luke let his fear control him. He brought in his weapons and instead of facing his fear he lashed out with it and realized he was only fighting himself. Also the force is used for knowledge and defense, never for attack, and Luke drew his lightsaber first.

Obi-Wan-A-Bi
09-29-2002, 06:48 PM
Thanks for the replies! Those make a lot of sense.

tagmac
10-28-2002, 06:09 PM
I always thought it was showing a possible future, that if Luke continued to give in to his fear and anger, he would eventually turn to the Dark Side, like another Vader. These are certainly more interesting explanations.

Yoda-Wan
11-10-2002, 09:27 PM
you hit it tagma, that's what I always thought......

It was definately fear that was his failure. Remember that he told Yoda when he left "I've learned a lot since then..." and then when faced the real Vader, Vader said "you've learned to control your fear...." That is probably the first thing a Jedi must overcome.

And yes, I agree Yoda was pretty ticked at Dooku, but it's the control factor. Does Yoda fight Dooku out of anger? Does he channel that anger to fight him? No, he uses the force to do that. He does it out of self defense, maybe not just his defense, but Obi-Wan, Anakin.....The Republic. He's able to control the anger and not let in consume him...."As it did Obi-Wan's apprentice"