PDA

View Full Version : Obi Wan's Vanishing Act



stillakid
10-02-2002, 12:26 PM
This has probably come up before, and I apologize profusely for repeating it if it has, but I was just watching ANH the other day and was wondering if there is an explanation somewhere for why Obi Wan disappears so quickly?

We saw Yoda slowly fade away, and the "fate" of Anakin's body, as I've heard it 'round town, is unclear (he did vanish, he didn't:confused: )

Anyhow, from what we do know about Yoda fading away, what is the explanation for Obi Wan not being sliced in half and falling to the floor first, before vanishing into thin air? Did he disappear at the moment of impact, mid-slice, or on the way down?

Beast
10-02-2002, 12:54 PM
The reason that Yoda faded away so slowly was because he was dieing of old age. Not getting cut in half by a friggen lightsaber. :happy: :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Exhaust Port
10-02-2002, 01:00 PM
I remember GL mentioning that the vanishing act and why Qui Gon didn't are suppose to be addressed before the conclusion of Ep. III. The article where I read this was right after TPM and seemed to imply that it would be answered in AOTC but obviously that didn't happen. I hope he don't forget for Ep III.

Beast
10-02-2002, 01:06 PM
Exhaust Port, I recall that article also. What was said was the reason some Jedi can maintain their presence after they die would be hinted at in AOTC's. That hint was Qui-Gon's shouting to Anakin, before he slaughters the Tusken's.

Going by the book, Yoda heard it and was confused as to how he's hearing Qui-Gon when he's one with the force. So that will likely lead to how Yoda learns and instructs Obi-Wan how to do the vanishing act. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
10-02-2002, 01:55 PM
I think, just like Ponda Baba's bloody arm on the floor, Lucas hadn't really worked out all the mechanics of lightsabers back then. Plus having a person flop to the floor in two pieces and then vanish would have rocketed the rating to R in 1977. Too gory and graphic for the movie back then.

A lot of these continuity glitches have to do with the real world process of making films and the fact that, despite what he says, Lucas didn't have everything planned out in his head back in 1973.

Pendo
10-02-2002, 03:15 PM
Obi-Wan didn't drop to the ground and dissapear slowly because they didn't have the technology to make it look right back then :rolleyes:.

Really I think it has to do with the speed of death. Obi-Wan's death would have been sudden, he was sliced quickly and would be no way for him to still live, so his body dissapeared quickly.
Yoda on the other hand died much slower than Obi-Wan thus his dissapearing act is slower.

PENDO!

jjreason
10-02-2002, 03:19 PM
But his spin doctors have certainly earned their "No Prize"s as a result....

(Info note for non-Marvel fans: No Prizes go to folks who a) identify continuity glitches in the comics and b) who provide a plausible explanation for the glitch!). JJB must have about 2000 of these things from LFL by now. :D

Oh, of course....the TOPIC....*ahem* I think that as soon as a Jedi gives himself up to the force as Obi Wan did, he becomes ethereal. I imagine Ben's fade as taking about as long as Yoda's did......the saber could be explained as passing through Ben's spirit form as opposed to an empty robe. Either that or he REALLY gave himself up to the force (maybe in the midst of all that he had to use the spirit-world Jedi little boys room....). Mind you, I could stand to watch that scene again, it's been nearly a month. :eek: !

thespar
10-02-2002, 03:55 PM
i guess the deal is if they die suddely ie Qui-Gon they do not vanish when they died by old age or by become one with the force they vansih

Exhaust Port
10-02-2002, 05:24 PM
Didn't 'Ol Ben die quickly?

rynobot
10-02-2002, 05:44 PM
I think a good way to ecribe the dissapering act in E3 is when Windu gets cut down Obi-Wan is there and wittneses it and Windu dissapears. Obi either finishes off the guy who killed Mace or runs away and ends up asking Yoda about it. Then Yoda can teach Obi-Wan about the trick.

derek
10-02-2002, 10:55 PM
i posted this on the old forums, but that text is gone, so i'll try to rehash my disappearing jedi theory:

i think the ultimate motive of a jedi is to become one with the force, that is, to attain sprit form. i think, based on what we have seen on film, there are 2 ways to become "one with the force".

the first involves self sacrifice, as seen by obi-wan, in episode 4. he gave his life so that luke and the others could escape. he's automatically admitted to "jedi heaven".:)

the second involves yoda dying of old age. after living a lifetime devoting himself to others, teaching them the ways of the jedi, as he dies, he becomes one with the force as his reward for a life of faithful service.

the question of anakin actually disappearing will probably be answered when lucas reworks that scene for the DVD's. i bet we will see anakin fade away, but untill then, we can't say for sure if he did or not.

for the same reasons obi-wan and yoda do disappears upon death(self sacrifice), qui-gon and the numerous fallen jedi in the arena battle don't. i think the reason qui-gon didn't become one with the force is because he didn't sacrifice himself, he was just killed. i think if mace dies in the next film, he too, shouldn't disappear.

of course, lucas has said the "story" invovling disappearing jedi will be revealed in the prequil films, so i guess we'll know for sure in a few years, but based on what we've seen, i think my "self sacrifice" theory is sound, but lucas could simply reveal it as a trick the jedi learn, but i hope not.:)

as for why obi-wan did immediately vanish, i, like others mentioned, also believe that was done because of limits in technology and rating worries if a man is sliced in 2.

chewie
10-02-2002, 11:49 PM
As humans live much shorter lifespans than whatever species Yoda is, humans fade much quicker. Yoda's very long life meant a long fade out. :)

thespar
10-03-2002, 04:42 PM
derek i also agree with that was the point i was trying make on my last post.

mini-rock
10-04-2002, 08:13 PM
Good explanation derek. I can see GL adding more Jedi to the end of ROTJ for the Archival Editions though.:)

Beast
10-04-2002, 08:22 PM
Not going by what Lucas has said in the past about the vanishing act, Mini-rock. I think it's mentioned in the E1 audio commentary, and will likely be mentioned in the E2 one. He's also mentioned it a few other places, but I don't have them handy.

At the time of the prequels, no Jedi have vanished or manifested after becoming one with the force. Yoda's supposed to learn and teach Obi-Wan how to, after learning it. Yoda probably learns it trying to determine how Qui-Gon manifests himself vocally in E2, and whatever his role has to do with E3. But he's supposed to be in it, according to Lucas. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

mini-rock
10-05-2002, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Not going by what Lucas has said in the past about the vanishing act, Mini-rock. I think it's mentioned in the E1 audio commentary, and will likely be mentioned in the E2 one. He's also mentioned it a few other places, but I don't have them handy.

At the time of the prequels, no Jedi have vanished or manifested after becoming one with the force. Yoda's supposed to learn and teach Obi-Wan how to, after learning it. Yoda probably learns it trying to determine how Qui-Gon manifests himself vocally in E2, and whatever his role has to do with E3. But he's supposed to be in it, according to Lucas. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Also, Obi-Wan didn't show up as a "ghost" until ESB, but we did hear him several times in ANH after Vader struck him down.

Personally I'd like to see Mace, Ki-Adi, and Qui-Gon added to the ROTJ AE.

darthvyn
10-06-2002, 03:51 PM
first off, lets try to keep the ep. III spoilers out of this forum, please...


anyway...


Originally posted by derek


i think the ultimate motive of a jedi is to become one with the force, that is, to attain sprit form. i think, based on what we have seen on film, there are 2 ways to become "one with the force".

the first involves self sacrifice, as seen by obi-wan, in episode 4. he gave his life so that luke and the others could escape. he's automatically admitted to "jedi heaven".:)

the second involves yoda dying of old age. after living a lifetime devoting himself to others, teaching them the ways of the jedi, as he dies, he becomes one with the force as his reward for a life of faithful service.

the question of anakin actually disappearing will probably be answered when lucas reworks that scene for the DVD's. i bet we will see anakin fade away, but untill then, we can't say for sure if he did or not.

for the same reasons obi-wan and yoda do disappears upon death(self sacrifice), qui-gon and the numerous fallen jedi in the arena battle don't. i think the reason qui-gon didn't become one with the force is because he didn't sacrifice himself, he was just killed. i think if mace dies in the next film, he too, shouldn't disappear.

of course, lucas has said the "story" invovling disappearing jedi will be revealed in the prequil films, so i guess we'll know for sure in a few years, but based on what we've seen, i think my "self sacrifice" theory is sound, but lucas could simply reveal it as a trick the jedi learn, but i hope not.:)


i agree fully, but have some stuff to add...

i don't think it JUST has to do with sacrifice, but with fate - accepting, or trying to change it...

yoda succumbs to old age - he accepts that he has to die. "strong am i in the force - but not that strong."

the real answer lies in the two that face their fate in battle...

both qui-gon in TPM and ben in ANH hint at their demise -

TPM

anakin: you can't kill a jedi

qui-gon: oh, i wish that were so...


ANH

luke: my uncle thought he might be dead...

ben: oh, he's not dead, at least not yet...

luke: so you know him?

ben: of course - he's me!



ben disappears because he has fulfilled his destiny, which was to make sure all the important characters were together to destroy the empire - he disabled the tractor beam, and that was his final necessary act. he actually LIFTS HIS SABER, in a gesture of acceptance and peace, and is cut down, dissapearing from "our" plane of existance.

qui-gon, against everyone's wishes decides to take on anakin as his second apprentice. when he meets his end in battle, it is with "unfinished business" - he didn't get to fulfill his new destiny, of training the boy. he tried to change his fate, and therefore fighting against the inevitable, he was not able to sublimate to the force.

Beast
10-06-2002, 03:59 PM
Liam Neeson's (Qui-Gon Jinn's) involvement in Episode III is not a spoiler, it's merely casting news that was announced months ago. Lucas and Neeson have both confirmed that the charecter does appear in some manner in E3.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

darthvyn
10-06-2002, 05:51 PM
and that's not a spoiler... how?

Beast
10-06-2002, 05:56 PM
It's not a spoiler, because it's casting news. Just like the fact that James Earl Jones has been cast to reprise the roll of Vader's voice isn't a spoiler. Casting news, and what happens in the movie with those charecters is two different things. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

2-1B
10-06-2002, 06:36 PM
I think casting news does amount to spoilers, many people don't want to know ANYTHING about the film . . . if someone went into AOTC with the "confirmed news" that Qui-Gon's voice would be heard, I'd say that's a pretty big spoiler.

Just because something is reported on the official website or by Lucas does not mean some fans do not want to know about it.

Beast
10-06-2002, 06:40 PM
Ah, but this isn't confirmed news of what Qui-Gon's roll in E3 is. Besides, JT and Steve have already said that cast news is not spoilers in their opinions. Spoilers typically involve the plot of a film, not who is cast in what roles. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

mini-rock
10-06-2002, 06:47 PM
Out of respect for the people who DO NOT want to know ANYTHING about EP3, I think casting confirmation or news should remain in the "spoilers" section. This is supposed to be a safe haven for those who want to stay spoiler free, and regardless of what we think aren't spoilers, we should respect this section and report any rumors, news, or confirmations in the spoilers section. My opinion of course. :)

2-1B
10-06-2002, 06:57 PM
casting news means revelation of characters, and characters affect the plot directly.

I disagree with JT and SirSteve. :)

darthvyn
10-07-2002, 10:13 AM
thanks caesar and mini-rock. the knowledge of the involvment of neeson and jones in the movie drastically alters the plot of the movie in my mind's eye, one that up 'til recently was on pure speculation. i'm not militant on my anti-spoiler stance - but to me casting news does constitute spoilers. it's not a HUGE spoiler, but i consider it a spoiler none the less. i understand that i am in a gross minority when it comes to not wanting to know things, but please respect my wishes. i actually looked away when i saw JEJ's name on the main page, but still put two and two together, unfortunately - stupid math!

Pendo
10-07-2002, 04:14 PM
Personally I don't see confirmed information to be a spoiler. I need something to wet my appetite :rolleyes:. It's the stuff that are rumors that I wont be reading. Why not just change the title of this thread so it says Minor Ep3 Spoilers?

PENDO!

mini-rock
10-07-2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
Why not just change the title of this thread so it says Minor Ep3 Spoilers?

PENDO!

Who are we to decide the degree of the spoiler for those who want to remain completely spoiler free? Perhaps since SS & JT do not think character confirmation is spoiler material, maybe the title of the thread should be changed to "OK. Just what we think aren't spoilers".

Like I said before I do not consider character confirmation spoiler material. And if I did see a spoiler I wouldn't dwell on it, and it would in no way lessen the experience for me. But this section is for people who WANT to remain spoiler free, and we have to consider any rumor or confirmed information a possible spoiler. My opinion of course.

IMO the JEJ thing on the front page should have read differently. :)

BTW, I think we are starting to go off topic here.