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View Full Version : Birds of Prey (Batman / Catwoman's daughter) Premiers Today!



Tycho
10-09-2002, 02:07 AM
It's on 9pm here on WB - after Enterprise on UPN, and fortunately not opposite it.

It will be only a 1 hour show it seems - not a movie premier.

Check your local listings for WB Wednesday Night.

I barely watch TV: just Smallville and Enterprise - and the news or occasional science or political program.

I hope this new show sucks so I won't have to watch it!!!

But I suspect it is going to be awesome:


Batman has retired. Catwoman has lost all her 9 lives. She is murdered and Gotham's Dark Side only turns worse. One girl sets out to take revenge for her mother - and embrace the life of her father she never knew.

Finding her is Batgirl, a.k.a. Jessica Gordon (Sarah Gordon?) Shot and paralyzed by a new Joker, her brutal abuse and rape is even documented to send to her father. Nothing will stop the crimelords who let her live with her pain. But she lives with her knowledge and becomes the Oracle - reigning espionage upon their criminal organizations, and a new super-girl with a chip on her shoulder as her most deadliest weapon.

This just might be interesting. I don't watch chic-flicks like Charmed, Charlie's Angels, or the Gilmore Girls, and Jaina Solo might be the only lady-hero I'd step in front of a bullet for (amphistaff, whatever), but nostalgia for the Batman legend lives on in me, and this is too tempting.

Let's post our reviews here in just under 24 hours from now!

LTBasker
10-09-2002, 02:32 AM
It's Barbara Gordon that's Batgirl aka Oracle. ;)

I'm planning on watching it, just cause it's Batman related. Dunno if I'll keep watching it though, as Batman is said to not be in the comic series much so I'm guessing they'll probably carry that on through the series.

Some plus points I've heard:
Mark Hamill's doing the dubbed voice for the Joker as he does in the animated versions.
The guy playing Batman will be the guy from the OnStar commercials so we actually get to see how well he acts for something like this.
It's darker unlike Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.

Definitely catching the first episode though, still debating wether to tape it or not.

gibbspaulus
10-09-2002, 05:27 AM
I'm not a comic fan so the series premise was a new one to me. It sounds pretty exciting. Kind of 'Batman - TNG', but following on from Tim Burton, rather than Joel Schmuck.

No idea if any Brit Tv channel will show it yet, or when!

Geonosian
10-09-2002, 05:46 AM
Since when did Batman marry Catwomen???

Beast
10-09-2002, 05:57 AM
You don't have to be married to have kids. ;) Besides, it's just a new twist upon the old comic charecter of "The Huntress" In current DC continuity she is the daughter of a Mafia Crime Boss.

In the original pre-crisis universe of DC, she was the daughter of Batman and Catwoman. It appears they are following that aspect for the new series, but just as a basis. :)

BTW, did I mention before how much I hate my cable compnay cause I can't watch this. :mad: :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

El Chuxter
10-09-2002, 01:08 PM
I'll watch this show at least once, since the Birds of Prey comic has been a favorite of mine since it debuted, but I'm a bit wary of the show. It looks very different from a comic about Black Canary operating as a special agent for Oracle, with occasional help from Huntress, Catwoman, or Power Girl. (The comic's set in the present day.) I must admit I'm not a fan of Smallville (sorry, Tycho) or any other live-action superhero show outside the classic Flash series, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

What was wrong with the Huntress's comic origin? :confused:

The Overlord Returns
10-09-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by El Chuxter

What was wrong with the Huntress's comic origin? :confused:

They needed something to connect it to the public conscious. Batman lends auto recognition. Hence the Huntress being Batmans daughter again.

I guess WB didn't think ANYONE (geeky sexstarved fanboys) would watch a show about scantilly clad women fighting crime.

LTBasker
10-09-2002, 02:12 PM
Oh yeah, and Harley Quinzel will be a regular character on it, but I don't think she'll immediately turn into Harley Quinn.

Was never really a fan of Smallville because I just couldn't get into the current timeline of it, but this really looks promising. Maybe if it does well, WB will think more about making more Batman movies with Burton at the wheel.

smurfvader
10-09-2002, 03:47 PM
While I'll probably watch for a while (the new Twilight Zone opposite Enterprise has sucked so far) I'm really disappointed that they've decided to change Dinah (Black Canary) Lance's powers. Instead of a sonic cry it wil be touch telepathy. I hope that part of the show will change.
I watch Smallville and think it's okay the biggest problem with it is that it follows the same plot almost every week. Someone gets mutated by the Kryptonite, uses their power to commit crimes or do something bad and Clark then has to use his powers secretly so nobody knows he has these powers and everything works out in the end. My understanding is that BOP is by the same creators. And on a side note I liked Ashley Scott better as a blond:D

JIm

Tycho
10-09-2002, 05:48 PM
I agree that Smallville has to make some changes to keep its game going. But it slowly is:

Clark's naive trust of Lex is finally ebbing because of the Inquisitor reporter Roger Nixon.

Lana dumped her boyfriend and is now discretely pursuing Clark who she realizes she is in love with.

Chloe blew her chances with Clark unless she learns how to talk about her real feelings. All she speaks are denials there.

Lionell Luthor is blinded, perhaps permanently, but nevertheless going to be an integral part of the show this season as he's added to the permanent cast.

Dr. "Meteorite" Hamilton is either dead or turned into some kind of monster. The secret of there being a spaceship is out and rumors are flying that aliens landed in Smallville.

Pete, Clark's best friend, learned the secrets of Clark's powers and now, like the Kents, has to cover for his friend or face the consequences of Clark's discovery.

The best part of it is that Clark doesn't understand the whole thing himself just yet, and he's now re-opening questions he didn't want to ask: "who and what is he?" "what is his purpose?"

Anyway, this is a BoP thread, so enough about Smallville, but I think the show is going to have some twists this season that people are going to fret about if they miss them!

Eventually Clark and Lex will become bitter enemies. That will surely happen long before the show is over!

Smallville is and WILL only get MORE awesome!

It's great you've tried it. Now try keeping up with it! You'll get as hooked as I am! Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!

JediTricks
10-09-2002, 05:49 PM
This thing looks like a cross between Cleopatra 2525 and Mutant X, but I'll watch its 70-minute premiere tonight... with a big bucket of skepticism. :D It's a good thing Junkyard Wars is repeated at 12am though or I'd probably not bother with Birds of Prey - if it turns out to be ok, then WB needs to fire whomever is in charge of the promotions for this show.

RooJay
10-09-2002, 08:14 PM
Sadly, I missed the premier. So what's the word? What'd I miss? Anyone care to fill me in? I'm a HUGE fan of the Birds of Prey comic - Chuck Dixon (Birds of Prey's original writer) is the most unerrated writer in comics!

Master Goeweins
10-09-2002, 10:07 PM
Okay, I just watched it and............. I don't know.
Some of it was decent, but other parts were decididley melodramatic. They all looked good, but the acting was a bit stiff. I say, give it a half season to learn itself, and it could be pretty cool..... as long as they don't play top 10 Michelle Branch songs at the endings. I am going to watch it again at least to see Harley... she was here, but not in costume. Next week's episode looks a little more exciting. I like Batman being gone, but I kind of wanted more Joker.. oh well.

As long as they cut the Top 10 music plugs and beef up the adventure, I will give it a small chance. But, honestly.... I think I will lose interest.

Eternal Padawan
10-10-2002, 12:40 AM
"Turds of Prey" is more like it. Who's the chimp writing this overly glib and sacastic dialogue? It tries to be witty and fresh and comes off as biting and defensive. Especially Helena's whenever shes making googly eyes at the cop. (Where's Commish Gordon?) And the plot was about as interesting as cat litter. I see this getting pulled inside of two months, but what do I know? I thought xXx was crappola in a sack and it made millions. I guess the TV viewing public has a little less taste than little ol' moi...

Dina Meyer looked hot in the Batgirl costume though...rrrrowlll ! :D

JediTricks
10-10-2002, 02:13 AM
Ugh, it felt exactly as I feared, 75% Mutant X to 25% Cleo 2525. The guy who acted as the Joker looked ridiculous. This show was a visual eyesore all around though, even the CG city didn't line up in many shots. Even low-rent Alfred didn't hold my interest, and I still don't like Dina Meyer.

Patient Zero
10-10-2002, 10:24 AM
Did anyone besides me notice the blatent similarities to Charmed? Three 'Sister' like girls (the long haired cutesy one, the 'thinker', and the more rough/rebelious one that gets slightly romantic with a cop who wants to believe in the supernatural) that attempt to help people.

The difference: I can watch Charmed if nothing else is on, but I don't think I will bother watching BOP again.

El Chuxter
10-10-2002, 11:53 AM
I thought it was a mixed bag, though more on the okay-to-good side of the spectrum. (Of course, I went in with absolutely zero expectations, and don't watch any of the other shows that some of you have compared it to.)

First the bad:

1) The music was horrible! Half the time Mark Snow (X-Files, right?) sounded like he was trying to ape Elfman's score from Batman, though with odd effects (most annoyingly the stupid cat roar) mixed in. The pop music was lousy for the most part, and even when a decent song was used (Michelle Branch's was the only one, IMHO), it was sorely misplaced in this show. The ad for upcoming CD's immediately after the show didn't help, either.

2) A lot of the dialogue was terrible, and there were some major holes that should've been cleared up. Like did the Joker get arrested or killed on the night he crippled Babs (different characters said different things, and he doesn't seem to be in Arkham)? That's a serious point, and plays pretty heavily on Harley's motivations. Also, why is this city suddenly"New Gotham"?

3) The CG was unnecessary. I don't know what was worse, the clocktower animation, the city, or Huntress' eyes.

4) Too many references to Batman without an actual Batman appearance. It's fine if he doesn't show up, but don't mention him every line if that's not the case.

5) The retirement of Batman is completely out of character, considering that the reason is far different from the one given in Batman Beyond (which fits better with the Bat).

6) Some of the acting was absolutely terrible, mostly from the actress playing Huntress. Dr Quinzel also has several acting classes to attend before the inevitable season (or series) finale appearance of Harley Quinn as such. And why in God's name would they not have Mark Hamill play the Joker if they're paying for his voice talents?

Now the good:

1) This has got to be the cutest cast of any TV show I've watched in a long time--even moreso than the Powerpuff Girls. :D

2) Visually, this matched the BOP comic almost perfectly. The clocktower (in static shots), Oracle in a tank top at the supercomputer, the nice amalgam of Huntress and Black Canary costumes for Helena.

3) Oracle was perfect, except for the completely random schoolteacher bit that was thrown out early on and seemingly dropped. As Barbara, Batgirl, and Oracle, she was everything I could've hoped for.

4) Mark Hamill as the Joker, if only the voice. He completely blows away Cesar Romero and Jack Nicholson, both of whom did excellent jobs for their adaptations.

Yeah, it looks like I saw more bad than good, but that's what I went in looking for. I'll give this show a chance.

Completely random question: if they don't stick to the "everybody they fight works for Harley" dealio, wouldn't Mr Zzaszz be the perfect villain for this show?

LTBasker
10-10-2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by El Chuxter
5) The retirement of Batman is completely out of character, considering that the reason is far different from the one given in Batman Beyond (which fits better with the Bat).


Well actually Batman Beyond is not official canon to the Batman uni according to the people who worked on the animated shows. Neither is Birds of Prey actually, it runs off of it's own continuity appearantly kinda like how the Spider-Man movies is running off it's own continuity. (mostly due to licenses for characters of Spider-man and of course time constraints on the movies) but I think like Smallville they just wanted to give it it's own edge and such for it so the adverage viewer can find it interesting instead of having to be a die-hard fan to get into it.

El Chuxter
10-10-2002, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
Well actually Batman Beyond is not official canon to the Batman uni according to the people who worked on the animated shows. Neither is Birds of Prey actually, it runs off of it's own continuity appearantly kinda like how the Spider-Man movies is running off it's own continuity.

Yeah, but they're both building on the future of an iconic character who's been pretty consistenly portrayed in most media ventures (Batman & Robin and the 60s TV show notwithstanding). In BB, it's believable that Batman gets so disgusted by his use of a gun that he forces himself into retirement. But Batman has always been so driven that I found him retiring in response to a violent spree by the Joker a tad out of character.

Tycho
10-10-2002, 04:39 PM
I liked the show. I'll be watching, giving this a chance - and I was the one here trying to not like it.

The Joker, as I picked up on it, also retired, leaving town. Batman couldn't bring himself to kill him, Barbara said.

His criminal organization smashed, and his failure to turn Batman to murder (by making him crazy enough to kill him for what he did to Barbara and Selena Kyle (Helena's mom for those of you who don't know Catwoman's real name), Joker was defeated, but not put in Arkham or 6 feet under ground.

The girls in the cast are definitely cute. I don't watch Gilmore Girls, but Barbara had the motherly feel to her character like the mother on the previously mentioned show (I've caught some of it waiting for Smallville to come on).

Smallville uses the same format, the pop-chart Top 10 songs, and advertises the WB's record selling labels or online music sources after each show. Save for the very last part - about where you can buy the music, this kind of thing was going on since Miami Vice first started using that format in the '80's. That was not a teen show, but teen audiences were drawn to both these new shows, and Miami Vice which was like another spring board for Phil Collins' career (not that I didn't enjoy every minute of that)...

"But I was there, and I saw what you did...
I saw it with my own two eyes.
So you can wipe off that grin
- I know where you've been.
It's all in a pack of lies!"

Sonny Crockett, good cop turned bad, having witnessed the murder of his partner, loads his gun, strolling down a white sands Caribbean beach. There the drug lord who caused so much pain and death sits, free from United States prosecution.

"And I can feel it calling in the air tonight - hold on.
And I've been waiting for this moment all my life! - Hold on."

The criminal says he's free from prosecution and has diplomatic immunity. Sonny can't arrest him and retry him for crimes he'd be acquitted of.

'That's right,' Sonny says. The drug lord sees the cold look in his eyes and says he can't hurt him - he's a cop. He swore an oath. He begins to panic looking for his body guards. They're no where to be seen as Sonny calmly empties a bullet out of his gun and straight through the head of the crime boss.

"Can you feel it coming in the air tonght - hold on...."

The music fades, and red blood drips on white sands, and somewhere along a lonely, private beach, a cop walks away from paradise, and heads back to a world that much more uncertain...

This was the TV movie that started it all. There's nothing wrong with the format, as long as the music choice is appropriate!

I don't know if BoP can ever live up to the melodrama that was found in a show like Miami Vice, this is geared for a younger, teen, and chic audience. However, BoP was good in its own right.
The psycho-babble ending with the violence occuring in the minds of the characters, and not the real show, was a cheap-gratuitous way to show Batgirl in action, but not a really exciting way to end the pilot episode. I think instead, they could have shown more of Batgirl in flashbacks in other episodes, versus making a way-too Star Trek type of ending for this show.

Still, I'm going to give "Gilmore's Action Girls In Hell" some more viewing chances this season. It's got me interested, but it doesn't hook me quite as much as Smallville, or empathizing with male lead characters and villains would.

Finally, what's Dina's deal (the character)? She gets on a bus and just KNOWS these ladies are in New Gotham and not Metropolis, or anywhere else?

Oh - and the Smallville characters' crossovers might be used as gimmicks to draw viewers - though as far as I understand it, this show, BoP takes place maybe 20 years AFTER Smallville's current timeline. Highlights of a cross-over might be seeing Tom Welling in the Superman costume for a BoP episode, or seeing Mike Rosenbaum play an older, evil Lex Luthor. Does anyone know if they film BoP up in Canada where they shoot Smallville?

How about my timeline informaton? Is that correct? If Helena went to Smallville, or Dina was seen on the show, would they be like under 10 years old, and some kind of witness to something happening on the Smallville show?

Just a thought - and probably a bad idea. But oh well. It's the DC universe.

JediTricks
10-10-2002, 08:04 PM
I bet they didn't originally have Mark Hamill for the Joker's voice, they had the actor himself voice the lines and then the powers that be decided it'd be a bigger draw to have Hamill redo the voice.

Dryanta
10-10-2002, 09:49 PM
Hey guys.
My two cents is a little late.I just watched the show on tape.
First I have been a huge Bat fan for thirty years so be patient with my reaction to this show.
Terrible on more points than good.
I liked the look of Gotham better than any of the crappy movies.
Not the graphics but the style and feel of the city.
Babs is right on ,couldn't be better.And Alfred was cool.Also the Huntress origin or at least her parentage is a great homage to the golden age of DC.But the Huntress herself is terrible.SHe is another Jason Todd and some of us know what happened to him ;)
Meta human???!!!Oh great.Nice out fit.One stray bullet and the shows over.She's been court ordered to see Harley and yet the detective will have no clue who she is right?There's a mug shot out there.A recent one at that!!Snide punk.Hardly worthy of either the Huntress name or Catwomans daughter.Not to mention The Batman.
Why in the world would they bother to call the other girl Dinah Lance.She has nothing in common with Black Canary,who by the way isn't even blonde.
The Joker was a horrid joke.The voice yes,the actor,makeup all of it was terrible.
The same for Cat woman.Long blonde hair? whAt the &^#$ was that?
Batman wins the final fight and yet the Joker still manages to kill Selina and shoot Babs?Every time The batman was declared the winner Joker was a bloody lump not up for much of anything for a long time.Or he disapeared or was presumed dead.Never just left to run around a few more days.
Bruce Wayne ,the greatest detective in the world is "clueless" about Catwoman having a daughter.Let alone it's his kid.Give me a break!!!
Please, if Ibn comes up think about the situation before you try and compare the two.:)
And to top it all off he just Goes away?Yeah right!!!He trains from the age of eight 'til 25 to do nothing but fight a war against crime and just one day says" well I guess I'll go on saBATical" oh please,someone some where write this stuff with respect for the Characters!!!
Where are the " others" Batman has taken under his wing.Nightwing?,Robin?The also just left and went on to work in the corporate world right?Please.
The bad guy was a sad attempt at the scarecrow.Why bother?
Now the really bad news,I'll still watch it.For twp reasons.Maybe we'll actually get to " the Man" on TV again.As he should be shown.And maybe ,just maybe,the writers will smarten up.

How's that for a come back post.Thanks for starting this one Tycho and Hey BTW.
I have some ideas about what I'd like to see happen with the story line.Any body all that interested in heariong them?:)

Tycho
10-11-2002, 01:48 AM
Go for it, Dryanta!

That's what this thread is for - plus us casual fans might learn something from the die-hards.

No, this isn't Batman, but we're getting closer to the day that it is!

Adam
10-11-2002, 03:40 AM
I was going to avoid this show.. but if I can sit through another craptacular episode of Transformers:Armada, I can give BoP a shot.. at least just to hear Hammil's Joker again.

JediTricks
10-11-2002, 05:09 AM
BTW, I noticed tonight 2 things when I accidentally flipped the tape on:

- They're using that awful Joel Schumacher batsuit, the one with the nipples (that was his huge "contribution" to the Batman lore);
- Harley is being played by Sloane Peterson, Ferris Bueller's girlfriend!!! What kind of weird casting is that?!? Mia Sara ruined her career doing so many of those destined-for-Cinemax films between Ferris and Timecop that it's hard to believe ANYBODY would give her a job these days - is this level of casting a sign that WB has no faith in the show, or do they have faith in Ms. Sara's acting talent (hidden and somewhat feeble-looking as it may be)?

... come to think of it, it's almost got to be the former, much more of the prime casting also seems almost completely unbankable - Helena was the most annoying character on Dark Angel's last season, Asha; Rachel Skarsten, the 17-year-old who plays Dinah/Black Canary, has almost no prior career at all including her beginnings in Canada (this according to IMDB anyway); and 2 of the other leads (Oracle - Dina Meyer who somehow is in the upcoming Trek film, and Mr Pitt... er, I mean Alfred - Ian Abercrombie) have film credits that read like they're straight out of the "how to be a B-movie actor" handbook. And get this, Mia Sara replaced Sherilyn Fenn as Harleen Quinzel - Ms. Fenn basically wrote the aforementioned handbook! With that casting, it seems like the producers were trying to bury this show.

This show feels like it's half way to *shudder* Roger Corman's "Black Scorpion" to me. Smallville may have some things that aren't perfect, but at least it took its characters, situations, audience, and cinematic approaches all seriously from the beginning - I see none of that in Birds of Prey.

Dryanta
10-11-2002, 08:38 AM
Morning all,
The "B" casting doesn't surprise me any considering the direction they seem to have taken with the characters.At least they didn't do what they did with the Flash 10+ years ago.Put it up against shows like Cosby and the Simpsons.That was a sure sign of damning something before it even had a chance.
For those who don't know anything about the comics continuity,The Batman does have a son he knows nothing about.His mother is Talia,Ras Al ghul's daughter.Ras Al Ghul is an Global enviromental terrorist who been working secretly for hundreds of years to cull the human population and become the ruler of the planet.He has mapped regenerative "Lazarus Pits" around the globe.If he enters one of these chemical filled pits he regenerates and is young again.Hence the idea he is almopst immortal.
Now here is my idea for a direction of the show that woould cover over some of the major holes they've made for themselves.
The night of the final Batman/Joker battle Batman confirms everything he has suspected.The Joker has been being used all the time By Ras to distract the worlds greatest detective from discovering the workings of Ras.He then doesn't leave Gotham because of being weary or slightly mad,but to go after the much larger Global threat of Al Ghul.Only Taking Nightwing with him and leaving Gotham in the hands of BatGirl.Not unprotected at all.But at the same time not telling anyone but Alfred of the true deal so as not to endanger them.
The relationship with Talia will Happen as Batman pursues Ras for 8 years.But he would have had a relationship with Talia about five years earlier.Hence the pregnacy.Playboy Bruce Wayne and all that.She was on a mission to scout out this Batman for Her father.They fall for each other Blah Blah.
Now what they could do is Have Bats show up in Gotham with Nightwing and a new Robin in tow. During the final fight with Al Ghul they Both end up in the Lazarus pit.Only a young rejuvinated Bruce Wayne makes it out.This part of the story is directly from a recent Batman/Superman Generations series DC put out.
Anyway with the global threat taken care of Batman can return to New Gotham and go back to taking care of her.
Well,he gets back finds the daughter he never knew.She's mad at him.He's trying to make it up to her,She's jealous of Both Dick Greyson and of course The "son" Robin.Battle of the sexes time."He likes his son better than me.How could have not known about me."Alfred knew where he was and never told him.Because Alfred ,knowing what had happened to Salina and Babs didn't want to run the risk of Ras finding out Bats has a daughter.Ras wouldn't move against IBn because he is his Grandson,but Helana would be a very clear target.
See what they would get a very clear way to spin off Batman,Nightwing,and Robin into a real series that we all could enjoy and let this crap flounder.Use it a s a lead in to a real series.
They would have multiple Father /child frictions going.Alfred/Bruce,"you should have told me about her" Huntress/Batman " you like Him better than Me"
Nightwing/Batman"I need to be on my own out from under your shadow"
Batman/Robin"keep an eye on your sister.She has no idea what she's doing"(More friction,heh heh.)
Babs/Nightwing"Hey I remember you" romance there.
Well too much soap opera stuff? Alot of the elemants of this are straight from the comics.I think it would work if Warner Bros would let DC handle their own.They have a lot a really good writers on the payroll.Use them where they could do some good.What do you guys think? let's bash this around a bit.:)

scruffziller
10-11-2002, 08:59 AM
Next week's eps looks much better. Thank God...... they got Alfred on there to add some testosterone to the mix quite a bit too much estrogen flowing there. But I do like chicks in tight leather, that is a plus with me.:D :crazed:

JediTricks
10-11-2002, 04:36 PM
Dryanta, I think this show's audience wouldn't be able to handle all of that, it seems too complex for TV. Plus, do you really want Ras to be "the first meta-human"? :D I think Batman's canon needs to be abandoned for this show, strip this down to the basic Batman elements and go off in a new direction for itself (though not as broadly as it's already done).

QLD
10-11-2002, 06:31 PM
hmmmm....I just can't bring myself to watch this show. I have never heard of this character, and well....it doesn't sound all that interesting.

RooJay
10-12-2002, 01:39 AM
Did Dina Meyer wear the mask as Batgirl or not? That's my major question right now! All the photos I've seen of her in the costume don't include the mask. Please tell me she did.

By the way Dryanta, not to get nitpicky, but Black Canary is most certainly blond. It's her alter ego that is not.

Tycho
10-12-2002, 02:18 AM
Yes, she wore the Batgirl mask.

Dryanta's idea is seriously cool! They SHOULD hire someone like him, a real fan, to handle the writing on this show!

Nice job, D!

Dryanta
10-12-2002, 10:48 PM
Hey all,
Roojay,since when is Dinah Lance a Blonde?Both her and her mother the original wore Blonde wigs.She dyes her hair now?
I don't read BOP comic so I really don't know.She was always a Brunette.
Thanks tycho.
Jt It is very complicated I agree.But So are shows like Star Trek,And even some of the story lines in Wrestling from what I remember are pretty complex.They need to do something to get the hook set.People get tired of just beat the bad guy week after week.And My hope would be to Get a Batman series spun off from this loser while they could.Huntress could get by a truck(I officially volunteer to Drive it) for all I care.But Oracle would have to be part of the new series. I refuse to refer to the other girl as Dinah Lance.;)

darthvyn
10-13-2002, 12:42 PM
nice work dryanta!

can't say that i've been a huge batman fan, spider-man is my dude, but i do know a lot of the comic continuity, and i am a major fan of the animated series...

ra's al ghul is one of the best villains ever created, because he's working for a noble goal, just through any means necessary - the restoration of earth to it's natural un(humanly)altered state, with the unfortunate side effect of virtually destroying the human way of life, and therefore destroying mankind...

i think it would be awesome to use this character in something like what you posed. it's too bad - we had a great animated series - in my opinion, bruce timm and paul dini should be involved in ANY comic book project that is transferred to another medium. they just know how to translate comicbookese to the mainstream!

the spider-man movie was amazing. the first batman i really dug. the second one i really dug. i'm not even going to comment on the other two batman movies.

while marvel seems to have their head finally out of the sand, dc (with the evidence posed in that awful leaked superman script...) still doesn't seem to get it. some of marvel's best books right now are being written by movie (kevin smith) and tv (j. micheal straczynski) or novel (brian micheal bendis) writers.... THAT LOVE THE CHARACTERS!!! not people that "have a new vision" for the characters, not people that "want to bring the character in a new direction" or "throw away all the history, and get to the root of the character" or any other things that idiotic people say when they don't know anything about what they're writing about...

the forumla is a bit complicated, but i think it's working in a lot of different ways right now - it has to be true to the characters, accessible to new readers/viewers, AND different and intriguing enough to keep BOTH interested. i think the main problem comes from the fact that there is a lot of back story to all these characters, and a big, albeit slowly shrinking, fanbase that's been around for a long time. this long-term fanbase demands of the creative team "surprise me - but don't change a thing."

Dryanta
10-13-2002, 06:54 PM
thank you Darthvyn,
You made all the points I would like to make.I have to be honest,I haven't liked any of the Bat films.But I'm much more of a hard core fan than the general ticket buying public.
I agree that the Back story for a character that has been around since 1939 is incredibly important.And that is the exact reason IMO that it needs to be respected and presented.It would take time to slowly incorporate even half of my suggestions but they would be worth it.
Also with the success of both the C.S.I. shows,they could have a Batman series that spent most of each episode utilizing the skills of the worlds greatest detective.All the while still having him be one of the worlds greatest fighters ever,and the family troubles that could spin off from BOP.Wishfull thinking I guess.
And I agree,Marvel is doing it right so far,Time Warner needs to wake up and make movies that will appeal to BOTH the general Public and the fans.If done right,the first will become the Latter.
And I agree the animated series was great.Respect was given to the characters and it showed in the quality of the show.The animated series was great enough to actually contribute to the comics( imagine that) with Harley Quinn.That should speak volumes to the powers that be at Time Warner.Let Fans write comic character Movie scripts..Let movie writers go make romantic comedies.

RooJay
10-14-2002, 01:32 PM
What I said was that the Black Canary has always been blonde; you are correct that Dinah Lance is a natural brunette though (there is a distinction there! ;) ). Although, if I'm not mistaken, the character has been a dyed blonde lately.

I'd also like to point out that I think that what Warner's really needs to do is to start making movies that appeal to SOMEONE!

Don't make me start having to defend my beloved DC though! They can't help it that their parent company is run by a committee of mentally handicapped chimps.

Most die hard Marvel fans I've ever talked to just flat out refuse to give DC a try, but just in case Id like to recommend a few DC books to anyone interested:

Birds of Prey (there's a reason they decided to make a television series about it. Whether you like that show or not, the book is definitely worth a look!)
The Flash
Green Arrow (also written by film writer Kevin Smith until just recently - and much better than his Daredevil run, I might add! Currently very capably written by award winning novelist Brad Meltzer!)
JSA (a book created by, occasionally written by, and guided by filmwriter David Goyer - who certainly cares for the characters and especially their history)
JLA (dare I say that Joe Kelly's run on this book has been even better and offered up more character development than Grant Morrison's? One issue in particular that shouldn't be missed by comics fans would be the Batman/ Plastic Man team up in #65!)
Legion
Batman, Detective Comics, and Gotham Knights (c'mon - it's Batman! Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee start their run next month; I'm sure it's not be missed!)
Catwoman
Hawkman (you want a writer who cares about a character's history? Imagine someone who cares enough about a character like Hawkman to not only acknowledge each convoluted detail about his history, but who is not afraid to use it to tell some damned good stories!)
anything by Chuck Dixon (the most underrated writer in the biz!)
Fables (I can't recommend this one enough!)
anything by Alan Moore through Wildstorm (naturally!)
anything by Brian Azzarello (especially 100 Bullets!)

Dryanta
10-14-2002, 06:40 PM
I agree with all your recomendations Roojay.It is too bad the way things are run at DC.It's been screwed up since Warner Bro. bought them(or however that whole thing happened.

smurfvader
10-15-2002, 06:40 PM
I missed 1/2 the show, but from what I saw it was LAME! This is how I would change it. First Get rid of Helena's powers and just have her be athletic and nubile...er I mean nimble.:D Second get rid of the blond girl as Dinah and bring in the blond chick from Mutant X. That show can't be around for much linger so she should start looking for another job soon.
This way we could have Oracle and Black Canary as mentors to Helena. That's all I can think of for now, but I'll probably have more after the next episode.

Dinah Lance has started to dye her hair, in fact I think she started doing it at the beginning of the comic.

I also think they (DC) have decided that the Son of Demon GN (in which Batman has a son with Talia) is now considered an Elseworlds story and not an in continuity story.

JIm

JediTricks
10-17-2002, 05:04 PM
Oh man, I gave it another shot last night because I was feeling generous and was rewarded with even more putridity! Why is it that they go to such great lengths to show us the CG city of New Gotham over and over yet the CG buildings aren't interesting to look at? And the writing makes me want to start pulling teeth, Huntress only trusts Dinah after the kid conks a baddy on the back of the head with a batarang - seems like they've already given this stranger the keys to the whole batcave based on knowing almost nothing about her or her true motives! Oh, and they had to go the extra mile with all that "brotherhood of vigilante crimefighters" syrup by naming various Robins even though one of 'em died trying to fight outside the system.

darthvyn
10-17-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by RooJay
I'd also like to point out that I think that what Warner's really needs to do is to start making movies that appeal to SOMEONE!

THAT's funny!


Originally posted by RooJay
Don't make me start having to defend my beloved DC though! They can't help it that their parent company is run by a committee of mentally handicapped chimps.

Most die hard Marvel fans I've ever talked to just flat out refuse to give DC a try, but just in case Id like to recommend a few DC books to anyone interested:

Green Arrow (also written by film writer Kevin Smith until just recently - and much better than his Daredevil run, I might add! Currently very capably written by award winning novelist Brad Meltzer!)

Fables (I can't recommend this one enough!)


i'm totally there on these two... however, even though i love spidey, for the most part i follow creators, not characters. i followed kevin smith from daredevil to green arrow. still read both of those, although with bendis on daredevil i defy you NOT to read it... he's done amazing things with this character. i have read superman, batman, and vertigo titles in the past. superman got to be too much, EVERY WEEK a new story that takes place in the same continuity - it just made me mad that i HAD to pick up every superman book to get the whole story. batman was during the whole knightfall thing - it was interesting, but it turned out to have the same effect on the fans as the "spider-clone" debacle *SHUDDER*

i love preacher. there's nothing too exciting coming out of vertigo right now, except for fables (it is vertigo, right?). please, point something out to prove me wrong, i love that whole feel to that imprint... and would love to pick up a good new book...

i read nightwing until issue 50, cuz i didn't like the new creative team (see? :D )

right now i just think marvel has a really good stable of creators on the correct books, and characters i'm interested in. except for igor kordey. i don't understand how this guy got in the building. he's awful.

dc might be getting their business-sense act together finally, though. the evidence being their recent pulling of merchandising rights from hasbro, and giving limited rights to mattel - and giving dc direct the main rights. mattel is only getting rights to do images of the characters outside of the comic medium, meaning movie, animated, and misc rights... could be a good sign!

Tycho
10-18-2002, 02:22 AM
I liked the latest episode of Birds of Prey with the waterboy.

The Huntress in the sauna was my favorite part, of course.

However, this "GilmoreGirls Gone Darkside" will get old. I'm just a little bit more for watching next week's, as I am for trying not to.

Smallville is going somewhere: you know Clark is learning to become Superman.

Is Birds of Prey going to go anywhere?

scruffziller
10-18-2002, 09:00 AM
It seems to be getting better. I hope we will see Harley Quinn in her costume soon.

LTBasker
10-18-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
Is Birds of Prey going to go anywhere?

Oh yeah I think so, but it will take a little more than 2 episodes. ;)
Also remember Smallville is less complex than this story, theres an even bigger backstory for this that some people just may not get and of course the only recognizable character in it is Alfred and partially Barbara but Superman is alot more well known than them.

I know what you mean from the Gilmore Girls stuff though, seems too much like they're taking their usual teen series and trying to mix it in with this, which they really should not and hopefully they'll learn that. Actually a little bit of it reminds me of *cringe* Buffy. I heard theres gonna be some more changes to it though, hopefully they'll get to doing it alot better.

The second episode I don't think was as good as the pilot since it did have a few inconsentencies to it, but still a good episode, if the show's gonna get better in each episode then I hope this has a good long run. :) I just really hope they don't do the Smallville freak of the week or overuse the Harleen showering her Harley side or overuse the Joker issue.

Tycho
11-14-2002, 06:26 AM
I liked seeing Black Canary the other week, and tonight's episode was also pretty good.

Dinah's trying too hard, IMO.

LTBasker
11-14-2002, 02:09 PM
Yeah, last night they really improved on Dinah a little but the girl still needs acting lessons. She just seems to draw blanks when she's trying to do certain parts and is like an overgrown baby in some of them. She really needs to work on the way her face looks.. When's trying to do serious lines her face just goes dull and the longer the camera concentrates on it, it just looks like it's bubbling up...

Theres a not very strong rumor going around that BoP may not be picked up for season two...

smurfvader
11-14-2002, 03:44 PM
I really didn't care for the Black Canary episode. They changed her name (Carol? How many superheroes have the name Carol?)
and although Lori Loughlin is attractive, she doesn't have the toughness that I'd expect from the character. And what was with her breathing in before she screams? That's a good way to let your enemty's know your about to attack. Does anyone else believe the character is dead? doesn't Mia Sara look like Tea Leoni?

JIm

Tycho
11-14-2002, 04:59 PM
I don't believe Black Canary is dead. I just think she used that explosion to abandon her daughter again - or because she believed that Barbara could train her better.

I like the hard-edge that Reese is portraying. His new partner must've been badly burned. They didn't go into that at all...

James Boba Fettfield
11-19-2002, 01:58 PM
I just read that the WB has cancelled any more episodes of this show, and decided to pick up the FOX sitcom Grounded For Life.

http://www.superherohype.com/cgi-bin/news/fullnews.cgi?newsid1037712080,2146,

Tycho
11-19-2002, 02:20 PM
That sucks! I was really getting to like this show. I thought later episodes were actually BETTER than the premier.

I am looking forward to Dinah's character developing, seeing how Barbara lives on with her disability (her romance with Wade), and seeing if Helena and Reese finally get together and make a crime-fighting team together.

I know some people in this thread predicted it would go, but I hoped for the better - and even eventual appearances by Joker and Batman himself!

They had the right cast, the right writers, the right concept idea - what the heck?

They need to give it a chance. True it went up against the new Twilight Zone, but some people will be attracted to a totally recurring cast, which Birds' competitor cannot provide. I'm not even sure who that guy that hosts the Twilight Zone is. I change the channel from UPN after Enterprise (to then watch Birds).

I truly hope it's not over, and / or another station will pick the show up.

LTBasker
11-19-2002, 03:18 PM
From what I heard it's just that WB is waiting to see how well this week's episode does.

I really hope it doesn't get cancelled, the series has a lot of problems acting, direction and writing wise but if they got in a better team, got the girl who plays Dinah some acting lessons and got Paul Dini for the writing then the series would ROCK. Heck, I don't want to see it cancelled just because Dina Meyer is awesome, not just as Barb Gordon but rather just alone her acting in this is great.

They need to put it on Tuesdays with Smallville that way they can have a two hour Superhero timeslot, that's sure to attract viewers.

Tycho
11-21-2002, 03:17 AM
Tonight's episode with DarkStrike was really good!

Next week Batman himself will be on the show, and Barbara will reunite with him as Batgirl!

The show is too cool - and DarkStrike knows who Huntress is, and also who Harley Quinn is, and if she cuts a deal with him and gets him out of Arkham - then he could rat them all out of the Clock Tower.

Was DarkStrike a real "Batman character?"

That stuff about the stalker guy, what was his name? Was he a part of the lore, too?

Meanwhile, at a Comic Convention in Los Angeles on Sunday, I have a chance to meet The Huntress. Helena Kyle (I hate to admit it, but I don't know her name in real life) will be the special guest at this show. It's always fun to look at the Star Wars stuff they have early, so I think I'll go and check her uh.... I mean the show, out!

LTBasker
11-21-2002, 09:12 AM
I don't know if Darkstrike was a real character but on first promos they said he was an ally from Batman's past but then they said in the episode that he worked with Black Canary when he was younger. When the episode info was first released his name was said to be "Nightstrike" which could mean they ripped him off of Dick Grayson and his Nightwing character. I think they should've done a Nightwing story instead...

The episode wasn't that bad but it really seemed like they took way too much from the Green Goblin/Norman Osborn stuff from the Spider-Man movie, including the mirrior bit. (Pulled off rather poorly..)

The CGI that was used for Huntress running across the rooftops was really bad and not only that, but reused from a previous episode. The music that was used for the fight sequence was also cringeable.

Anyways, theres possibly still a chance for BoP to not get canceled, if the rest of the episodes prove themselves then it probably won't get canceled, and also another network may pick it up. We could only hope Fox would since WB's getting Grounded for Life from them, and Fox treated Batman: The Animated Series really well. :)

JediTricks
11-21-2002, 10:56 PM
I totally forgot it was on last night.

Tycho
11-24-2002, 01:18 PM
The show's officially over. I was going to drive up to L.A. to meet The Huntress at this sci-fi convention they have every month, but I went on their website and found this article that confirms it. (http://www.comicbookscifi.com/program1.html#birds)

I've clicked on this link a few times - mostly to stare at Huntress and Dinah, longingly - and I'm not sure that the show's being cancelled was the reason. I just felt bad and I'm sure the acresses must feel upset over this. It's too bad they didn't make a convention appearance anyway. I don't like it when people have to feel bad. I would have gladly taken the ladies home with me and offered them my consolation. :)

I'm sure I could have been very nice to them.

James Boba Fettfield
11-25-2002, 10:19 AM
gothamclocktower.com reports.....

Series Finale Details!
Those of you who are worried that the show will end with many loose ends, worry no more: Birds of Prey is set to end with a 2-part finale which will wrap up many storylines and change the lives of the Birds forever.

At the current time, it is very likely that the 2-part finale will air as a special 2-hour movie.

For more details on upcoming Birds episodes, visit the GCT Birds spoilers page!

Before anyone takes this as definite confirmation things are over, one can assume that if the show were to, say, move to another network that they'd pick up from where this "finale" leaves off. Shows have filmed "final episodes" before to have last-minute reprieves in the past. (Magnum PI and La Femme Nikita among them).

The two-part Birds finale should be filming soon.

JediTricks
11-25-2002, 08:10 PM
I blame star Ashley Scott, slayer of pseudo-sci-fi programming. First the untimely demise of Dark Angel just after she joins the cast and now the death of BOP in its infancy; perhaps TV audiences hate her, or maybe it's just that awful haircut of hers. As for BOP, I'm not sorry to see it go, someone should have retooled it before it hit the airwaves - something good may have come out of it upon modifcation, but as it stood, this show really didn't do it for me.

Tycho
11-27-2002, 02:32 PM
Batman will be on Birds of Prey tonight in a 2 hour special!

OK, set your VCR's if you watch Enterprise because Birds of Prey has 2 episodes on tonight. One is called "Pilot" and I do not think it's a repeat of the first episode. The second one is called "Lady Shiva" or something (Shiva was a Hindu god in the Indiana Jones movie). In any case, the Huntress is supposed to come face to face with her father: Batman!

Birds of Prey starts at 8 tonight! (and for Trek fans, Enterprise is also a new episode that's on at the same time).

El Chuxter
11-27-2002, 02:58 PM
Lady Shiva? I might have to check that episode out. I haven't watched since the first ep, since it seemed useless to have a Bat-universe show with no Bat-villains, but Lady Shiva is a bona fide Bat-baddie! :)

LTBasker
11-27-2002, 02:59 PM
Actually I think the Pilot episode is the first repeat of the Pilot episode but it was about 3-5 minutes longer than an hour so they're just gonna cut it to fit an hour time slot. Lady Shiva is another character from the comics, I've never heard of her so it's all new news to me too. I think Shiva's supposed to be played by "Sung Hi Lee" or something, I'll check to make sure.

JediTricks
11-27-2002, 11:34 PM
GIST and TV Guide claim that "pilot" is a repeat, hence it's probably the pilot episode. It's on right now, but I'm afraid I couldn't be bothered to actually turn the tube on to find out. ;)

UPDATE - confirmed, it's the pilot. SUCKERS!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA! :D ;)

Tycho
11-28-2002, 01:16 AM
So much for Batman appearing on the show tonight...:rolleyes:

But the episode was excellent! I really like Lady Shiva.

The show gets better and they've cancelled it!

I wonder how many more episodes are already finished?

LTBasker
11-28-2002, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
So much for Batman appearing on the show tonight...:rolleyes:

But the episode was excellent! I really like Lady Shiva.

The show gets better and they've cancelled it!

I wonder how many more episodes are already finished?

Season 1 (and only 1) is 13 episodes long along with the 2 hour finale. So theres 4 episodes before the finale left.

Tycho
11-28-2002, 03:13 AM
That's a short season! Star Trek is normally 26 episodes for a season that starts in the Fall.

Is BoP shorter because it was cancelled, or did they only have 13 episodes planned anyway?

JediTricks
11-29-2002, 09:38 PM
13 eps is a standard network order if they're not sure they want a full season, 22 eps is a full season usually. Simpsons season 1 was only 13 eps.

Tycho
12-19-2002, 05:28 AM
Tonight's episode was really good. I wish this show was not cancelled!

Dinah finally proved she can act, too! She really did a nice job.

I saw it coming in the end, when Hawk was going to go back to his old ways. I was surprised and delighted that Reese slapped the cuffs on his old man and dragged him off to jail!

I like Reese's character. We got a lot of background on him in tonight's episode, too. I wished we'd also learned what made Hawk decide to be a bad guy in his younger days. I'm not a comics fan, so I'm not sure if this was a recurring villain that squared off with Black Cannary a lot, or not.

I still think Dinah's mom is alive.

I liked the action and the psychopathic killer who got "Han Solo'd" in the end of the episode. He was a great stalker dude!

"You have to make a decision. I hate people who are not deliberate!"

Good episode. Shame this series is in the can! Maybe it will get resurrected? Let me dream...

And Dina Meyer is a good actress - she was excellent in Star Trek Nemesis, too. You couldn't tell it was her, yet she made a Romulan Starship captain still seem like a very sexy woman.

And in spite of what other people say, I love Ashley Scott! :happy:

LTBasker
12-19-2002, 10:48 AM
Yeah it was ok, definitely one of the better episodes. Dinah's improving but the girl still needs a little more acting, she just didn't seem like she wanted revenge but just seemed more of a snob.

The ending was a good twist too, it gives ya the feeling that the whole episode was gonna be in vain and then he slaps the cuffs on him. :D

I wish they wouldn't use that CGI jumping Huntress footage though.. *cringes*

I'm hoping it'll get picked up by Fox or something, but it's unlikely.

JediTricks
12-19-2002, 06:37 PM
I totally forgot it was on.

Tycho
01-09-2003, 02:01 PM
I missed the double-episodes last night. Can anyone tell me what happened?

Patient Zero
01-09-2003, 02:13 PM
Wow! I can't believe that people are still watching this show; I completely forgot about it. I gave it the 3 episode try (the point at which I would start to get into a character) and it just did not hold any interest for me. Oh well!

stillakid
01-09-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
I missed the double-episodes last night. Can anyone tell me what happened?

The first episode was about a nerdy guy with one eye who exacted his revenge upon women by capturing Meta-chicks and forcing them to cat-fight in a cage. Of course, he lures Huntress down and drugs her, forcing her to fight. Dinah goes down to rescue her, but naturally gets captured as well. They are forced to fight each other.

Just in the nick of time, Oracle comes up with the antidote to the fight inducing drug and the cop guy, infiltrating the place as an audience member, gives Huntress the shot just before she kills Dinah.

During the commercial break, the captured girls kick the *** out of the little nerd.

Episode II also dealt with nerd issues. (One of the writers was obviously dealing with some problems). Huntress is invited to her class reunion but she doesn't want to go. Old male classmates of hers congregate at the bar she works at and a few keep hitting on her. The ones that do wind up dead later that night. It turns out that it's one of the klutsy nerds from class who has this ability to vanish like a chameleon. He's harbored this unhealthy crush on her and is exacting his rage on the guys that are treating her badly. In a desperate attempt to fulfill his promise, "We will be together...no matter what!" he sets up a chemical bomb in the school lab and traps them both in the room "to die together." Somehow Oracle comes up with a way to "reveal" the guy so he can't keep vanishing from view and Dinah bursts in and sets off this light-thingie. The guy can't vanish anymore, becomes klutsy again, and Huntress kicks his ***. Just moments before the bomb goes off, she gets out of the room. The bomb is just a gas mixture which poisons him or something. They watch as his body turns to dust.

The other sub-plot to this was her relationship with the cop. The episode began with an interesting discussion about the nature of a "secret identity." Huntress claimed she had one and needed to keep her true name secret from everyone...including the cop. Dinah, being the sassy little blonde she is (grooowllll...purrr. :cool: ) insisted that Huntress had no secret identity because she didn't wear a mask or glasses or anything. Anywayyy, after some dodging throughout the episode, Huntress finally gave in and told the cop her real name as she began to realize that she really wanted him in a more...uh, romantic way.

:)

Tycho
01-09-2003, 04:33 PM
Dang, I'm sorry I missed that moment. How did Reese react when he learned Helena's real name? He can use his police clearance to look her up and learn all kinds of things, including tracking her to that bar she runs. (I think she owns it, with Wayne money she was given). Did they kiss - any true confessions about how they feel for each other?

I suspect that Jake will keep her secret from the other cops, but now he can ask her on a date, or know where to go to get drunk with her ;)

So Stillakid, you like little Dinah? Me too. I like Ashley Scott's sultriness too though.

I'm blonde, so I think opposites attract a lot, in my case, and I like brunettes often - though by chance I've mostly gone out with blondes or had them interested in me - and is it ever the guys' choice?

stillakid
01-09-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
Dang, I'm sorry I missed that moment. How did Reese react when he learned Helena's real name? He can use his police clearance to look her up and learn all kinds of things, including tracking her to that bar she runs. (I think she owns it, with Wayne money she was given). Did they kiss - any true confessions about how they feel for each other?

I suspect that Jake will keep her secret from the other cops, but now he can ask her on a date, or know where to go to get drunk with her ;)

So Stillakid, you like little Dinah? Me too. I like Ashley Scott's sultriness too though.

I'm blonde, so I think opposites attract a lot, in my case, and I like brunettes often - though by chance I've mostly gone out with blondes or had them interested in me - and is it ever the guys' choice?


I left out a few details to get to the chase, per se. :rolleyes: Reese walked into the bar where she works (while she was there) when he was investigating where the murder victims came from previous to the attacks. She dodged him there. Then, while at the reunion (because all the victims were in town for the reunion), Reese happened upon the fact that an alumni was a bartender over there. Some drunkard alumni guy gave Reese her name so Reese headed over the the obligatory yearbook to look her up. Wouldn't you know it?...picture not available. Then, at the end of the story, when she's really attracted to one of the hunky guys from her past, she see's Reese then decides that she'd rather "be with" Reese. He sees her and thinks that she's just there investigating the crime. She tells him that she found the guy and dealt with it. He tells her that he was on the track of an alumni that worked at the bar. She then confesses that the woman he's looking for is her.


And the blonde thing, yeah much to my brunette wife's chagrin. Don't ask...it's a long story.

LTBasker
01-09-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
Dang, I'm sorry I missed that moment. How did Reese react when he learned Helena's real name? He can use his police clearance to look her up and learn all kinds of things, including tracking her to that bar she runs. (I think she owns it, with Wayne money she was given). Did they kiss - any true confessions about how they feel for each other?

Actually since she never wears gloves, he could've run a search on her prints long ago, but he wouldn't even think of doing that. Not too be nice, but the thought just wouldn't cross his mind. ;) She doesn't own the bar, they had the owner character in Reunion. Nope, no real mushy lovey dovey scene. :cool: There was one funny part though, as a trap Helena said at the Clock tower that she needed someone to hit on her, and you can see Alfred start fidgeting in the background like he wants to be the one. :eek:

I only caught Reunion, but from what I've heard it was the better of the two anyways and Gladiatrix was more of just a chance to show women fighting women.

Tycho
01-10-2003, 05:11 AM
Yes, and show them rip their clothes off each other, spank each other, cry out, and moan, and...

It actually IS appealing, so inspite of my sarcasm, I would watch it and think it was the best episode of anything I ever saw... etc. etc. etc. until the next time Lana Lang sniffs a nicademus flower...


Meanwhile, thanks for the info guys. I wish this show would be renewed and continued! It's not that bad. Then they could have more of these lady-fight-night shows and...

Stillakid, we always want exactly what we don't have. he-he. That goes for me right now, too. See the previous paragraphs above :rolleyes:

stillakid
01-10-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
Yes, and show them rip their clothes off each other, spank each other, cry out, and moan, and...


Well, it would have been alot better on HBO....hey, wait just a sec....maybe they'll pick it up for next season! :cool:

LTBasker
01-10-2003, 03:45 PM
No if they did that they'd be MTV, and Batman's already been butchered enough with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, Birds of Prey being turned into a pathetic slut fest is definitely the last thing that would be needed. If that happened, Batman would probably be gone forever. :mad: If you want that type of crap then watch HBO late at night if you don't already, geez.

stillakid
01-10-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
No if they did that they'd be MTV, and Batman's already been butchered enough with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, Birds of Prey being turned into a pathetic slut fest is definitely the last thing that would be needed. If that happened, Batman would probably be gone forever. :mad: If you want that type of crap then watch HBO late at night if you don't already, geez.

Maybe, but it would beat the talk-fest that got the show cancelled in the first place. Women superheroes seems like a good idea until you realize that they sure do talk a lot.

Though I've never been a huge comicbook fan, as I see it, the concept of male superheroes has remained popular precisely because of their get-down-to-business vigilante nature. Cut the small talk and kick some arse.

What with the tight clothes and athletic bodies, it was only a matter of time until chick superheroes popped up...only their appeal wasn't the same, for obvious reasons.

So why not call a spade a spade, get the chicks in some tight spandex and make a movie? Why play the game that we all have Puritan ethics when we want to see hot women in a power position? I don't get it.

The Batman movie franchise fiasco came about primarily because a) WB put a "flamboyent" :rolleyes: director in charge who decided to express his own homosexual fantasies onscreen rather than be true to the Batman theme, and b) WB was more interested in selling toys than in telling good stories, by their own admission.

The entire Batman/superhero-onscreen situation would be far better if the powers that be would allow some real comic book fans at the franchise, much like the guys that do the animated series and Batman Beyond. They've got a good handle on what Batman should be. And I'm sure they could introduce the "girls" so that they gave (honest) viewers what they want to see ( a bit of T&A ) while not making it so gratuitous that it looks like a Hustler video shoot.

But, hey, that's just my opinion.

:)