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The 'Xir
10-19-2002, 01:43 PM
I haven't visited Sir Steves' site in awhile, and as I went back through the past 100days threads I didn't see any threads about this, although I'm sure it's been debated repeatedly, but I'd thought I'd ask it anyways...Which do you like better The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-19-2002, 02:26 PM
AOTC. TPM I like a lot, just AOTC had less boring talky **** and more good stuff. :)

Battle Droid
10-19-2002, 03:05 PM
AOTC.

mini-rock
10-19-2002, 03:39 PM
All my favs, but if I had to put them in any particular order:

AOTC
TPM

JesusFreak
10-19-2002, 03:42 PM
Attack of the Clones. It has less Jar Jar, and no annoying 9 year old Anakin. Plus digital Yoda ownz

Lord Tenebrous
10-19-2002, 04:48 PM
ANH and TESB are the only Star Wars movies that matter to me. Which leaves

TPM > ROTJ > AOTC


TPM is fairly stable, but ROTJ and AOTC just bounce back and forth between being kinda good and really bad. Ironically, the good rests solely on Ian. Twenty years ago or now, he has made Palpatine better than the material he's given.

Master Goeweins
10-20-2002, 12:01 AM
Oh man, ATOC all the way. I do like TPM a lot, but ATOC is so much heavier. But, I still think TPM establishes the settings and characters necessary for making ATOC so good.

Pendo
10-20-2002, 06:41 AM
AOTC is better. I liked TPM but AOTC has a stronger plot, a better Sith lord, better characters, and is more like the originals.

PENDO!

Exhaust Port
10-20-2002, 09:04 AM
TPM provided the background story for ATOC which provided all the action. I liked ATOC for that as well as starting the introduction of familar characters such as the Clonetroopers. I can't wait for III.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-20-2002, 03:18 PM
Umm . . . what the hell does "ATOC" stand for? As far as I'm concerned, it's not called "Attack the of Clones." :D

Exhaust Port
10-20-2002, 06:39 PM
Dang it! I guess my proof reading really sucked this morning. AOTC AOTC AOTC AOTC AOTC. I'll get it right eventually. ;)

Darth Vellner
10-20-2002, 08:20 PM
A O T C

187-Maul
10-21-2002, 02:48 PM
I have to wait until I've seen E2 a couple of more times on DVD when it's out but at the moment I have to say AOTC, and I think I will still keep to that after seeing it a couple of more times

Arrogant Arse
10-21-2002, 03:07 PM
AOTC over TPM, but ESB BY FAR over either I or II

The 'Xir
10-21-2002, 07:46 PM
I was hoping to let some other people post before adding my two cents, But I gotta diagree with Pendo. I like the story in TPM and I don't think there much of a story there in EPII. For one, there just can't be a story in the second act of a three act play or overall story, it just futhers it along. I mean there's no real conclussion, which is a neccesity for writting a story! now I Know you may say that's a cop out, but actually even when I was younger and I first saw Empire I didn't like it much then because it seemed slower and there wasn't as much action as in ANH, and because there's no real ending. Now I understand the middle acts use more and Empire is one of my Favs(although I really don't have one Favorite) and Obviously, EpII may grow on me in time.
But for now I like TPM much more! Oh, and don't get me wrong 'cause I do love AOTC, but I just remember how everyone bashed TPM, and I think there's much more wrong with AOTC then TPM and I don't hear half of the anti-sentiment as I did with TPM! For one, everyone complained about Jake Lloyds acting, I though it was fine for someone his age, but in AOTC, Aww GOD everyone had bad acting in that movie at some point! It was worse than anything Mark Hamill ever produced, especially Hayden and Natalie with there 'love' scenes, aww god it was painful. Their adventures together were probably the worst and slowed the movie down alot!
Also I thought overall the movie lacked alot of originality. I mean I know Lucas uses repeating themes in his or these movies(like music) and I even defend them or his use of them in TPM but come on that prison scene with Ben and Dooku, complete rip-off of 'Empire' and more sightings of bad acting, not to mention the final duel sucked, scene and lines, Oh why did he have to put a lightsaber in yoda's hands! Uugh!!! Although, I'll admit it doesn't look as bad as it could of. I thought they handeled it as best as they could but Yoda should still not have a lightsaber, at least not at 890 some odd years old! It was pretty funny though when he picked up his cane at the end of it! Speaking of that, that is the one thing that stood out to me was the humor, Although once again not original I thought it was used better in AOTC!
still my vote: The Phantom Menace(yes with Jar Jar) rules!

PS: I think I'm one of the few that actually gets(the point) of Jar Jar's Character, he's a perfect writing tool in TPM and for the overall story, and could have been used a little more in AOTC then he was but was still carried through well enough.

JON9000
10-21-2002, 10:19 PM
I think AOTC is a far superior film to TPM. Some it simply has to do with the actors themselves. Ewan McGregor seems to be a lot more comfortable with his role, and Hayden does fairly well in what are at best awkward scenes. I even think the CGI has noticably improved. But top to bottom AOTC is a tighter film, and actually builds suspense much more effectively. TPM just seems lightweight and juvenile to me in comparison. I dunno- something about AOTC just feels more Star Warsy, and it is difficult to quantify.

Chewtobacco
10-21-2002, 10:34 PM
Jon, I agree with everything you said and I'd like to add that the story is getting more interesting too. We knew so little about what the story was going to be for Ep 1 that when it came, it was a huge surprise and a little strange. Not what we expected. But with the addition of Ep 2, wow, things are starting to come together. By the time Ep 3 comes out, it'll all make sense why Ep 1 is still a good film.

TheDarthVader
10-21-2002, 10:34 PM
Lets just say I am a huge Star Wars fan and I never made it to the theater to see TPM. I saw AOTC twice in the movie theater. I was much more excited (for some reason) about AOTC than I ever was about TPM. Just my opinion...( I do own TPM on DVD now though and it is good).

otisdodge
10-27-2002, 02:11 AM
Attack of the Clones is 100x better than Episode I. I think that the plot is so much more cohesive. TPM is too drawn out, and goes too many places. I'm the first to admit that there is plenty of bad acting (esp. love scenes) in Ep II, but in the first movie, half of Tatooine and a good part of the rest should never have left the cutting room (except maybe on the DVD). Here's to wishing George would let go of directing... Oh, and that there were a few more movies.

stillakid
10-27-2002, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by The 'Xir
I was hoping to let some other people post before adding my two cents, But I gotta diagree with Pendo. I like the story in TPM and I don't think there much of a story there in EPII. For one, there just can't be a story in the second act of a three act play or overall story, it just futhers it along. I mean there's no real conclussion, which is a neccesity for writting a story! now I Know you may say that's a cop out, but actually even when I was younger and I first saw Empire I didn't like it much then because it seemed slower and there wasn't as much action as in ANH, and because there's no real ending. Now I understand the middle acts use more and Empire is one of my Favs(although I really don't have one Favorite) and Obviously, EpII may grow on me in time.
But for now I like TPM much more! Oh, and don't get me wrong 'cause I do love AOTC, but I just remember how everyone bashed TPM, and I think there's much more wrong with AOTC then TPM and I don't hear half of the anti-sentiment as I did with TPM! For one, everyone complained about Jake Lloyds acting, I though it was fine for someone his age, but in AOTC, Aww GOD everyone had bad acting in that movie at some point! It was worse than anything Mark Hamill ever produced, especially Hayden and Natalie with there 'love' scenes, aww god it was painful. Their adventures together were probably the worst and slowed the movie down alot!
Also I thought overall the movie lacked alot of originality. I mean I know Lucas uses repeating themes in his or these movies(like music) and I even defend them or his use of them in TPM but come on that prison scene with Ben and Dooku, complete rip-off of 'Empire' and more sightings of bad acting, not to mention the final duel sucked, scene and lines, Oh why did he have to put a lightsaber in yoda's hands! Uugh!!! Although, I'll admit it doesn't look as bad as it could of. I thought they handeled it as best as they could but Yoda should still not have a lightsaber, at least not at 890 some odd years old! It was pretty funny though when he picked up his cane at the end of it! Speaking of that, that is the one thing that stood out to me was the humor, Although once again not original I thought it was used better in AOTC!
still my vote: The Phantom Menace(yes with Jar Jar) rules!

PS: I think I'm one of the few that actually gets(the point) of Jar Jar's Character, he's a perfect writing tool in TPM and for the overall story, and could have been used a little more in AOTC then he was but was still carried through well enough.


Some of us brought some of these issue up but have repeatedly been battered by naysayers. :) It's a "Fan Club" though, so it's entirely understandable why there would be more support for both films than detractors. :) But as a result, it has become very very difficult to carry on a discussion about any of this as the film's supporters are more numerous here and can, at times, drift from the topics at hand and take things personally. :( It's quite unfortunate and causes unnecessary angst for all. :(

I pretty much agree with everything you state above, though "story" aside, AOTC appears to be a better "movie" than TPM, at least at a superficial lowest-common-denominator popcorn flick level. But that's just my opinion. ;) Most of my own personal criticism that I posted had to do with those kind of fluffy details, because as you mentioned, there really isn't much "story" to discuss. I personally "hammered" TPM more because of the story that it purports to set up and there is significant content to examine and discuss. AOTC moves quickly enough that it's hard to notice (upon first viewing) that there isn't much there, but the flashy images and action sequences are fun to watch and inspire cool toys! :) Also, Amidala's costumes are just as great if not better in AOTC. Too bad they've stopped making those Deluxe figures of her.

Even though I personally feel that GL made some enormous mistakes concerning story and continuity in these first two episodes, I'm hanging on to my optimism that Episode III will better reflect the storytelling that we witnessed with the original trilogy.

But that's all just my personal opinion. Everyone else is, of course, entitled to their own and encouraged to like or dislike the films as they see fit. :)