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Tycho
10-30-2002, 03:43 AM
Should marajuana be legal?

For recreational use?

For medical use?


I say "No" on both counts.

I have a mother who is a very severe cancer patient and does not smoke pot, though if she did, she would be protected by California law (allowing it for medical use).

I never use drugs of any kind, and that includes marajuana. It's completely unnecessary and actually pretty sad that people in society - especially a lot of young people, can't find something better to do.

Legalizing marajuana for RECREATIONAL USE - in other words "just for getting high" - let alone medical use - is on the ballot in Nevada. Current polls say only 36% of the voters favor legalizing it, but nevertheless, that is probably a larger amount of supporters than any other time in history.

What do you think?

Boba Rhett
10-30-2002, 03:51 AM
I say yes to both counts. And no, not because I want to smoke it.

But when I step back and weigh the negatives of keeping it illegal and the negatives of legalizing it, I come up with wanting it legalized. Now, by legalized I don't mean you can go buy a sack for a nickle at a candy store. ;) Several things would also have to be changed if it did become legal.

1. SEVERE punishments if accidents are related to the use of it. "You play, you pay" Same way it is for alchohal only have harsher penalties.

2. Regulated even more than the legal drugs that people buy now. Probably sholdn't be over the counter either.

The only reason that tabacco and alchohal aren't illegal, just like Marijuana, is that they were already introduced into society and people didn't want to give them up when the laws were written. It doesn't mean that they aren't just as harmful as mary jane.

2-1B
10-30-2002, 04:28 AM
Marijuana isn't legal because anyone can grow it and sell it for pure profit. How will the government get a cut of it ?
It's different with cigarettes . . .
Try gathering up all of the chemicals needed to make your own pack of Marlboros. :D

Tycho
10-30-2002, 04:39 AM
I thought in the old days, all you needed was to grow tobacco to make cigarettes?

Why the heck can't you grow tobacco in your back yard and make your own cigarettes?

Of course, pot is not illegal ONLY because the government can't regulate and tax it.

2-1B
10-30-2002, 04:58 AM
And in the old days all you needed to brew some cola was cocaine. :D

Tycho, I NEVER smoke weed and I drink quite infrequently, but when I look around and see the role of alcohol in so many tragedies and just downright poor behvior, I don't see how ANYONE can rationally argue that marijuana should be illegal in light of what IS allowed.

Unless someone is advocating the prohibition of alcohol while he or she lobbies for the continued control of marijuana, I just can't take the argument seriously.

mabudonicus
10-30-2002, 08:54 AM
Yep, Caesar's right.:)
Okay, sorry, I'll elaborate on it. My STANSE on the issue is simple- the existing pot laws are there for the reasons that Caesar stated AND the fact that hemp would, if completely de-regulated again as it used to be, totally usurp the pulp and paper industries importance, leaving a lot of rich people poor.
It's all about economics, not harm reduction or anything else like that, so the laws are bunk. Did you know that one of (matbe THE, I'm not sure) major supporters to the "war on drugs" was........ (drum roll please:)) Anheuser Busch!!!! Fancy that!!!
I believe that several, in fact most of the "harder" substances, which have been proven dangerous in many ways , belong on the outlawed list, but pot's just silly, man, it doesn't really do much, especially if the user eats it (okay, it's still hard on the kidneys, but then I can think of at least 2 legal substances that are worse)
Add to that the stupid economic cost of processing pot convictions and imprisoning those so dealt with, and you've got a pretty large waste of time over basicaly nothing. (oh, and I don't think that it should be encouraged as an all-ages thing either, there's enough chemical activity in a developing mind as it is)
And I never inhaled.

James Boba Fettfield
10-30-2002, 10:17 AM
I don't know about the whole issue. I can see why some people would want to legalize it, because not all of the people who smoke it are evil or anything. I worked with a kid last summer who did quite of bit of it, and he was a very responsible and intelligent individual. Then again, legalizing a substance like that won't help any drug problems we have now, perhaps it would only suit to increase them. I don't see any harm in a person smoking a few in their home, it's like someone smoking a cigarrette in their house. Big deal. Kill yourself how you must. Right now I'm killing myself with fatty fried foods. It may cause me to go into cardiac arrest while driving or in some other situation which could cause damage to someone else. Like I said, I can see both sides of the argument and I prefer not to take a stand on either side of it.

Eternal Padawan
10-30-2002, 10:25 AM
I thinks its ridiculous that the two most addictive and dangerous substances (Nicotine and Alcohol) are already legal, and everybody gets in a tizzy about marijuana. Think of all the "felons" in prison because of weed. I don't drink or smoke, and I'd rather advocate prohibition of nicotine and alcohol, but if your going to make those legal...screw it. You might as well make them ALL legal.

Patient Zero
10-30-2002, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
I thinks its ridiculous that the two most addictive and dangerous substances (Nicotine and Alcohol) are already legal, and everybody gets in a tizzy about marijuana

Thank you! :D

They should just make the same laws (age requirements, DWI, etc.) for other drugs as the do for Nicotine and Alcohol. I personally don't like pot, but that is not to say that I should take that right away from someone else because of what I think.

The 'Xir
10-30-2002, 10:58 AM
All drugs should be legalized! No Joke! Believe it or not, if this actually happened yes you would see an immediate increase in drug use on the short term; but after 5-10 years of people doing away with the fad we would probably see the same levels of use if not less over the long term then we're seeing nowadays! Think about it, when something is forbidden their is tempation and people will do anything to get it if they really want to! Look at the 20's and 30's during prohabition!! So if you take away that lure of illicit behavior by legalizing all drugs, who's gonna want to do it except for those that get a kick out doing drugs because they like to?

Lord Tenebrous
10-30-2002, 12:35 PM
The government would rather you free base. That's the big obstacle to legalization. Not because of accidents, or irresponsible use, but because America wants to use its own invented drug as a weapon. To legalize one would lead to arguments about every drug, as said above, and that's something the government doesn't want to deal with.


So no legalization on any front, not for a long while...

Pendo
10-30-2002, 12:38 PM
Has anybody ever tried marajuana before??? I say yes to both :crazed::D!!!

PENDO!

Lord Tenebrous
10-30-2002, 12:50 PM
It's alright, I hate it when people announce that they're going to smoke weed. It's not hard to find, I get it cheap, and it's a way to relax my mind after a hard week. Big deal.

And for medical use, THC in a pill would be more effective. Much like obtaining DMX would prevent you from consuming other chemicals by "robo-tripping". :p

Beast
10-30-2002, 01:36 PM
Agreed, I'm all for legalizing it as well. I have had it offered to me in the past, but never tried. But it's a hell of alot less addictive and destructive then alchahol and cigarettes. Plus it's been shown to be good for medical problems. Let's see doctors say that about alchahol and cigarettes. ;) :D

It's not like people smoke a pack a day of marajuana cigarettes. For most people, it's not even usually a daily thing. It's just a stress reliever, a relaxent. Hell, if it really was so bad, alot of people that lived thru the 60's and 70's should be braindead idiots. "Don't fear the reefer, man." ;) :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Tycho
10-30-2002, 02:02 PM
How about exercising and then relaxing in a jacuzzi or having a long, warm shower afterward for a stress reliever?

You might get out, meet a member of the opposite sex, look more attractive once it's habit forming, and sleep better. Did I mention live longer?

When you're in the gym and already tired, you can lift "nothing" and still feel better for going and stretching - or you can work all your agression out.

Cave man discovered exercise before he discovered weed. Somehow he survived to have descendants. You know: survival of the fittest.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-30-2002, 02:14 PM
We had a debate about this in my speech class a while back. It was pretty much right down the middle between the class, 50/50. I was all for legalizing it. I've only smoked it a few times in my life (last time was over a year ago) and i have no problems with legalizing it. If anything, i think the government could make one hell of a profit. Think about it: the government could grow and sell it. They could also put a small tax on rolling papers, bongs, and pipes too. Nothing huge, a few cents here and there, but when you add that up, it's quite a bit. Pot would be right next to the usual brands of smokes too. This would seriously help with all these overpopulation of prisons of people who just had pot and are serving sentences. It would also reduce crime (most likely) too. My "pro-legalize" group won the debate. We joked that we were "going to be celebrating outside in a friends car if anybody wanted to join us" Our professor smiled and said, "He'd be out there momentarily." We didn't of course, but still, was funny. :D

Patient Zero
10-30-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
How about exercising and then relaxing in a jacuzzi or having a long, warm shower afterward for a stress reliever?

If that works for you that's fine, but why make is legally wrong for another person because it does not 'jive' with your sense of morality. If vegitarianism was the more popular thing, then meat eaters would be looked upon as wrong. At such a point, should we outlaw that also. Let me tell you that I would be the first person eating the vegitarians. Ketchup Rules!

On a side note, Malboro has had the artwork of the packs ready for more than a decade now. They want to be the first ones on the market with it when they legalize it.

On another side note, I would bet money that alchohol has killed and/or harmed healthwise many times overthe people than pot ever has. So the argument that the government is protecting the society is out the window. A large amount of the harm that has come about with drugs is that there is no organization like the FDA regulating the quality of them. When you get something off the street you have no idea what it really is and if you do end up feeling ill after taking it, you really can't go to a doctor without repercusions of taking the drug in the first place.

floppy hat jon
10-30-2002, 02:52 PM
I'm all for legalization, both for recreational and medicinal use. Like many people have already articulated, the dangers of smoking pot as compared to alcohol or tobacco are minimal. It would take an unnecessary burden off of the judicial system, which would be free to prosecute actual criminals, and free up jail space. And if it was regulated and taxed, it would provide a nice usage tax to the government. People get to smoke weed in peace and the government gets more money. Everybody wins. I really don't see any benefit to keeping it illegal.

Disclosure: I've never smoked pot, nor do I want to.

Jargo
10-30-2002, 03:06 PM
I'm all for the decriminalising of maijuana use or ownership, as long as a proviso is added for the sake of responsible usage. I.E. only so much per person allowable. If found in posession of a larger amount you still get canned. The use of the substance around minors be made a punishable offense. or in other words, if you've got kids you don't have the stuff anywhere near them.
Certainly Dope should be permissable for medical purposes. I suffer from rapidly deteriorating arthritis and smoking a wee tad here and there to help me relax into sleep without pain is highly beneficial. I'm no addict and hardly ever smoke the stuff but feeling guilty for doing so does nothing to help me relax. The use of it has been proven as beneficial so why keep it off the pharmacists rosta of legal drugs? there are ways to administer the stuff that don't require smoking.

The best solution so far has come in the form of dope cafes in Holland. Attempts to open similar here in the UK resulted in the proprietor being slammed in prison.
The arguments above regarding the nasty nature of alcohol and cigarettes which are both legal negates the illegality of dope as far as I see it it's Hypocracy and uneven balance of justice.

Tycho, there are fourty or so chemicals added to cigarettes to make them addictive. These include sweeteners and sedatives among others. It's not simply a case of drying a leaf and rolling it in paper. Independent studies have shown the tobacco industry to be the worst kind of peddlar and drug pusher.

Pure and simple, alcohol and tobacco kill whereas cannabis/dope/weed/ganja/marijuana doesn't. The worst worst worst effect that it can have is enhancing a persons paranoia. other than that it's perfectly safe provided a user is not in charge of small children, driving or working heavy machinery. sensory perception is subtley altered while under the influence and by that I mean a slight delay in reaction times. Nothing more. it is not addictive unless a person has an addictive nature. You might just as well make chocolate illegal. It too has mind altering and body altering properties and is addictive. Over use will cause brain damage and make your gums bleed. it'll turn you into an obese stupid person with no co-ordination and lousy taste in clothing. That in itself should be criminalised.

QLD
10-30-2002, 03:52 PM
Dope is for dopes!

Drugs are bad, Mmmmkay!

The Overlord Returns
10-30-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
Dope is for dopes!

Drugs are bad, Mmmmkay!

Do you actually feel this way???

Or are you just.....y'know...bein' funny?

Patient Zero
10-30-2002, 04:02 PM
It is a South Park reference.

Drugs are only good or bad depending on the difference of the desired and actual outcome of taking them. a vaguer statement was never made

QLD
10-30-2002, 04:02 PM
Yes, I feel that way, and yes, I feel that way about nicotine and alcohol too.

The Overlord Returns
10-30-2002, 04:13 PM
you do realize that some of the greatest thinkers/ minds or talents in history were rabid drug users....or smokers....or drinkers???

Lord Tenebrous
10-30-2002, 04:14 PM
I take deep offense to Tycho's excercise comment, in that I'm in the pool for an hour four times a week and kayaking for three hours three times a week. I'm in great physical shape. So don't use that to disguise the typical American brainwashing. It's not a chronic thing, what's an occasional joint among friends going to do, really? It's just going to make us laugh, followed by the munchies. oh man those bittersweet munchies...

But what will they legalize? Would they legalize hydro? Would they legalize it with a PCP lace? How about the minty marijuana? That's an interesting one there.


The bottom line is, with the options and popularity, there's only one reason why the higher capitalists just sit upon this goldmine.

Ulterior motives.

Beast
10-30-2002, 04:18 PM
If Tycho was so against mind altering substances, he should stop buying Star Wars figures and sniffing them. It's obvious that they have made him a bit loopy as of late. His little Mouse Droid habit is out of control. And lets not even mention all the other figures he's sniffed to get high. It's time for an intervention. ;) :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

The Overlord Returns
10-30-2002, 04:20 PM
ya know....fast food is a drug that is killing americans.....perhaps the anti pot movement should start lobbying for criminalization of mcdonalds..... ;)

Patient Zero
10-30-2002, 04:28 PM
Anything that you build up a habitual tendency to do can be considered a drug (as in an addiction to): fast food, soda, coffee, sugar, ketchup....SW collecting.

QLD
10-30-2002, 04:28 PM
To continue my madness from yesterday, and to engulf myself in flames.....

All users of marijuana, cocaine, crack, heroin, hash, LSD, PCP, Ecstacy, etc. etc.....should be executed on spot. As soon as they are caught with it, they should be shot right in the head.

DEAD. BAM!! No more. That's it!

BOOYA!

Don't like it? I don't care. They should be executed, and save us, and themselves the trouble. The same with alocohol drinkers and smokers. Kill em all.

Then I won't have to wait in line long at the bank! Woohoo! :D

The Overlord Returns
10-30-2002, 04:29 PM
I'd like to see statistics on how many people have died as a result of pot use.

Lord Tenebrous
10-30-2002, 04:32 PM
http://hhd.csun.edu/shelia/pptvirtual/Grass/tsld005.htm

QLD
10-30-2002, 04:35 PM
If you have seen Reefer Madness, then you know how dangerous it is!!!!! WOOOOOO!!!!!

Beast
10-30-2002, 04:35 PM
Thank you Lord Tenebrous. Please feel free to take a Klondike Bar out of pretty cash for finding those statistics. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

The Overlord Returns
10-30-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
To continue my madness from yesterday, and to engulf myself in flames.....

All users of marijuana, cocaine, crack, heroin, hash, LSD, PCP, Ecstacy, etc. etc.....should be executed on spot. As soon as they are caught with it, they should be shot right in the head.

DEAD. BAM!! No more. That's it!

BOOYA!

Don't like it? I don't care. They should be executed, and save us, and themselves the trouble. The same with alocohol drinkers and smokers. Kill em all.

Then I won't have to wait in line long at the bank! Woohoo! :D

THe obvious sarcasm ( I hope) of this post aside...... here's a look at those who would be (or would have been) executed under your regime....



Jesus Christ
plato
sophocles
shakespeare
oscar wilde
albert einstein
winston churchill
ernest hemingway
jd salinger
john lennon
paul mccartney
george harrison
ringo starr
jfk
marlon brando
james dean
steven spielberg
george lucas
bill clinton
george bush (sr and jr)....
me....

and thats just a short list.... ;)

Patient Zero
10-30-2002, 05:03 PM
I would like to know how you snuck Ringo Star in there!?!

PS. Meaning that he is one to save!:p ;)

The Overlord Returns
10-30-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by The Ghost of Jonna
I would like to know how you snuck Ringo Star in there!?!

well....his inclusion in the beatles seemed enough to merit placement with the others....

had he never been in the beatles...truly expendable... ;)

QLD
10-30-2002, 05:59 PM
Jesus Christ - He was executed, technically.
John Lennon - Him too
JFK - him as well.


paul mccartney
george harrison
ringo starr
marlon brando
james dean
steven spielberg
george lucas
bill clinton
george bush (sr and jr)....
me....



Them, I can live without. It's not a plan without flaws, but what plan is. It would be very effective.

Deoxyribonucleic
10-30-2002, 08:34 PM
This is like asking if abortion should be criminalized :crazed:

There will never be an end to it

hehe

but fun to talk about nonetheless

as to maryjane...from a prison standpoint it should be legalized as prisons are becoming overcrowded with drug cases while murderers and rapists are being released on parol, but there are other options other than legalization, such as parol, restitution, etc for those "caught in the act."

Jedi Clint
10-30-2002, 09:24 PM
IMO punishment for possession and use of the plant does need to be re-evaluated, and perhaps changed to reflect it's relative association with other social ills. I think Tycho has a point about natural methods of fullfillment, but I also think the benefit EJ finds in it's use deserves recognition. Something tells me that making it a cash crop isn't the answer to the issues surrounding this drug. If the rumors of over-crowding in prisons can be diminished by a restructuring of the laws and their enforcement in regards to drug use, possession, and dependency....then I think serious discussions should take place in order to realize any practical application of this ideal.

Lord Tenebrous
10-30-2002, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Jedi Clint
Something tells me that making it a cash crop isn't the answer to the issues surrounding this drug.


http://www.msnbc.com/news/823002.asp?0sp=W5b8&0cb=-81b77393&cp1=1



The October harvest is a major economic stimulus in rural communities from Kentucky to northern California: with an estimated value of $15 billion annually, marijuana is among the nationís top 10 cash crops.


No need to make it, it already is.

Jedi Clint
10-30-2002, 10:03 PM
I should have said "officially" ;)

plasticfetish
10-31-2002, 12:22 AM
Oh god Tycho ... first the headless cow thing, now this ... you're killing me ...


Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I'd like to see statistics on how many people have died as a result of pot use.

I've known plenty that have bored ME to death, I can tell you that for sure.

OK.
Short answer ... yes, legalize it ... but selling it (and I mean the dictionary definition of "sell") should always remain illegal. Grow it and give it away if you want, but by turning it into a cash crop you're asking for trouble.

I think that people who end up consuming a lot of this "legal" pot will end up having a hard time finding jobs though. I can see companies tightening up on their drug free policies for a number of reasons.

Deoxyribonucleic
10-31-2002, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by plasticfetish

I think that people who end up consuming a lot of this "legal" pot will end up having a hard time finding jobs though.

but the food industry and farming sure would be a' boomin' HEHEEEHEHHEHE! :D

EricRG
10-31-2002, 02:57 AM
Marijuana should be legalized. Now. Tycho, how can you POSSIBLY present a reasonable case for keeping it illegal when you consider the facts? Can you present a case showing a) that marijuana is worse for your health than alcohol/cigarettes b) that marijuana is worse for society as a whole? When was the last time two marijuana smokers got in a fight? Or beat up their girlfriends? Or children? I can tell you from being around people who smoke it, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN! Unless good ol' Ethanol is involved. And the argument about hemp vs. wood pulp-based paper is COMPLETELY true! c) How can you POSSIBLY dispute MEDICAL EVIDENCE that marijuana can be used to aid pain suffering? ANY SYNTHETIC COMPOUND MADE BY WHATEVER PHARMA COMPANY YOU CHOOSE WITH THE SAME EXACT EFFECTS OF MARIJUANA WOULD (relatively) INSTANTLY BE MADE PRESCRIBEABLE! How can we be allowed to use MORPHINE - perhaps the MOST addictive substance known - to treat pain but not marijuana??? It's ludicrous! And unfortunately, it's once again an issue of big business choosing what is right for us. I'm both surprised and glad that the majority of people who looked at/replied to this thread are in favor of legalization. How many people are in prison for YEARS just because they wanted to grow some for themselves and not have to buy from somebody else? How much tax money are we spending to catch/persecute/maintain in jail these people? How can you say marijuana use is not natural fulfillment??? IT'S A PLANT!!! This is is so CLEARLY black and white to me...

Oh, and HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!!

Patient Zero
10-31-2002, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by plasticfetish
[SIZE=1]I think that people who end up consuming a lot of this "legal" pot will end up having a hard time finding jobs though

Because of the social stigma surrounding it at this time (assuming that said person's employers know of their employee using it): yes.

However, is it really any different then people with alcohol problems trying to hold down a job. Why is one legal and another not?

All I am trying to say is that you can't make an valid arguement for the harmful nature of pot and make it taboo at the same time that you make a substance (nicotine/alcohol), that has been proven to be much more harmful, legal and even popularized by many media outlets. There is no logic to that type of thinking.

Sorry! Stupid me thinking that people are logical.:cry: :crazed:

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
10-31-2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I'd like to see statistics on how many people have died as a result of pot use.



I have a personal story involving marijuana and near-death.

Back in 1992, my older brother had decided to experiment with marijuana in his upstairs bedroom closet. Well, it was nearly the last thing he had ever did.

I still remember hearing the muffled blood-curling screams coming from his room, calling my mother, my other brother, and myself for help. Since the screams came from his closet upstairs, it took us a minute to find out where they were coming from. But when we eventually found him, he passed out on the floor. I remember my mother slapping in the face trying to get him to come to. She then went to feel for a pulse and screamed when she could not find one. I started to go into shock. She pleaded for me and my brother to call an ambulance but both of us were in a daze because what was happening. Eventually, my other brother Martin came to and dialed 911.

Back in the room, after a minute or so of not getting any signs from my brother, he started to come to. We felt a pulse and could tell that he was breathing. Eventually he made a complete recovery the same night at the hospital and released the next day.

Moral of the story: Although marijuana is thought as a harmless drug, for some people it can be deadly. I don't know if it was a bad batch of weed or if it was my brother's irregular heartbeat that triggered his near-death experience, but that alone was enough to scare me away from trying it.

By and large I believe marijuana is a non-lethal drug and I do agree that decriminilization is the answer for the marijuana issue. I am not saying legalize it and let the users go free, but to be sentenced to a prison sentence for years because of possession or selling should not be. I also don't believe that marijuana is the gateway drug as it is claimed to be. How many people have smoked weed in this country? 30-40 million? How many crack, cocaine, heroin users are there in this country. Maybe 2-3 million for each drug? Those are guesses, but I don't see marijuana as the evil drug many people proclaim it to be.

The Overlord Returns
10-31-2002, 12:39 PM
Can I ask what the determination was as to what actually happened to your brother?

Patient Zero
10-31-2002, 12:45 PM
Very true LBC, but depending on everyone's individual system any drug (legal or not) can cause an adverse reaction. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and you would not believe the things that can happen when qualified medical professions perscribe a legal drug and something goes wrong simply because a specific person's system can not take the product.

Also as I have stated before, there is no watchdog group (FDA) checking the quality of the product so you never really know for sure what you are getting.

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
10-31-2002, 12:48 PM
I have no idea. I was only 11-12 at the time and I never thought to ask him or my mother what the cause was. In fact our family has only brought up that incident once or twice ever since. Everyone realizes that it was a major mistake and it is something I'm sure he would hate to talk about. I do remember though he was never charged with possession or anything criminal which perhaps there should have been.

The Overlord Returns
10-31-2002, 01:03 PM
hmmm.......I'm going to guess that he had pot laced with something else...something more dangerous. Seems the only plausible conclusion.

Deoxyribonucleic
10-31-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by The Ghost of Jonna
there is no watchdog group (FDA) checking the quality of the product so you never really know for sure what you are getting.

a popular "activity" for some who sell is to sprinkle small amounts of PCP, MDA, Opium, Cocaine...you name it, on the pot, which to me is creepy and scary for the one who smokes it!

Jargo
10-31-2002, 03:29 PM
He was having what is known to some as a 'whitey' which is where the amount of the drug coupled with the lack of experience becomes too overpowering. The legs go to jelly and the skin becomes clammy with a cold sweat, the mouth tightens and the heart races faster than normal and the world spins round. Moving will increase the effects. I've had similar effects before now due to the fact that my body hasd a very active immune system and is therefore intolerant of unknown substances. Weed induced an adverse effect similar to your brothers where i basically almost passed out and became so numbed by the drug i couldn't move. I eventually got myself lodged between the wall and the toilet bowl because i thought i'd throw up if only the world would stop spinning. The effects will pass quickly once the body has adjusted to the new chemicals. If he'd tried the stuff again he would have been fine probably, maybe he might have had similar but lesser effects a couple more times but from what you describe it sounds like he had a particularly potent variety of the ganj. Passing out on ganj is only the same as passing out on alcohol or fainting when smoking for the first time. Scary but harmless.
Marijuana works in such a way as to supress the body's natural activity. The same as the chemicals that auto-paralyse us when we sleep. If you've never had it happen to you while awake then it can cause panic attacks or the brain can simply counter the effect by completely shutting down in a faint. It's a defense mechanism that's perfectly natural. When you faint or pass out the pulse drops rapidly and the heart stills to a calm steady beat.
Marijuana is like alcohol, it should be taken over a long period of time, slowly not rushed. Like alcohol, rushing it will increase the effect.
Like i said, i use it to relax, because I'm permanently tense due to pain i find it hard to sleep, having a toke now and then helps me relax down enough that i naturally fall asleep and actually sleep soundly without waking several times through the night in pain.
Over the counter prescription drugs are good but they don't come anywhere near solving my problems like dope does.
However, I still respect people's rights not to have it around. I have friends who are permanently stoned who are just a pain in the tush to be around when they get past their third joint. It's like talking to a coma victim sometimes when all you get in reply to a question is a sly smile and a grunt. But all i can say is that at least they don't then get into a car and drive under the influence like drinkers do, What goes through the minds of people who drive their car to a bar get tanked up and then get back into the car with altered perception and no co-ordination? Why do bars have places to park cars anyway? I think the law needs to address that before kicking off on people who basically take something that sends them to sleep. How are weed heads dangerous to society please?

One last thing, while taking weed, the body increases sensitivity to nerve endings making the act of copulation an intense experience, like rumpypumpy times 10. weed is good for the impotent too. :happy: :p

Jedi Clint
10-31-2002, 07:53 PM
I have a very strong opinion regarding mary jane and it's nomination as the gateway drug. The reason that people move on to other drugs after trying pot is directly related to how it is represented to those ignorant of the actual effects of the drug and all other drugs. "Well that one wasn't as bad as it was made out to be......what about the other ones." A very dangerous and common misconception induced by the lack of information and spread of misinformation about marijuana.

QLD
10-31-2002, 08:09 PM
I'm telling you, see Reefer Madness, and you'll never want to take drugs again!

Exhaust Port
10-31-2002, 10:37 PM
This topic was run over a few weeks ago in another thread. Here's what I said about it then:

I just haven't heard a strong argument FOR legalizing marijuana. I don't care for the medicinal argument as the legalization crowd isn't only concerned for that <1% of the population but for legalizing it for everyone. For that reason I think it's a very selfish stance. Every bit of propoganda that I've been given, read, heard or watched starts on the platform of helping the sick but it then turns the argument towards allowing its use for everyone.

"People are suffering and they need this drug. It's not addictive and will help those that are suffering. Legalize it so they can be helped."

-then-

"Because it's helping the sick and it's not addictive it should be legal for everyone to use this drug. We all want to feel good and we swear not to become dependant or ask for any other drug to be legalized."

Marijuana is a drug. You might not want to believe that it's a true drug but it is. I truly believe and so do many other people that marijuana users can't be trusted to be "occasional users" or better society for allowing access to another drug. Look at the extent to which people will go to use this drug. People have been fined huge amounts of money, imprisoned or even killed for the simple fact that they want to have this drug. Has this deterred anyone from not using?

I don't care what you say, anyone who's willing to risk their financial future, their freedom or even possibly their life for the chance of using a simple drug such as Marijuana just goes to show that this drug has a hold on people. Perhaps it's not the same physical addition at the heavier drugs but it's ends up having a mental addiction for the user.

Why don't you steal from a supermarket? Because you know it's wrong? Because you understand the reprocussions for those actions? Sure, that's what helps keep society on the straight and narrow for the most part.

What about someone who routinely steals from stores and has both a full understanding of what's right and knows the punishments. That person has a problem.

So we have a very small portion of the society that want to legalize an act that they do already that is against the law and has/can have some stiff penalties against it. They swear that it's not addictive and that it's doesn't affect one's judgement long term even thought they've been doing it for 10 years and can't help but break the law.


I'm sorry but it'll be a cold day in hell before society listens to a bunch of pot-heads.

plasticfetish
11-01-2002, 01:24 AM
(Oh, God this is long. Oh well.)

Wow. A "whitey" ... I wonder if that's a British term. Jargo, I've been around pot smokers pretty much since birth and I've never heard that term. I'll be adding that to my personal dictionary. Thanks.

I think you (Jargo) kind of touch on one of the most important issues for me ... and that's the issue of respect for the narcotic and it's effects. I would categorize Jargo's use of marijuana as being basically medicinal ... perhaps self-medicated, but none the less medicinal. Medicines are understood to be something that is regulated and prescribed by individuals that (hopefully) have a complete understanding of their effects. Many naturally occurring drugs have historically been used for "spiritual" purposes. The idea there is that the plant/drug has a specific purpose and a power. Power is to be respected and respect is what helps to prevent abuse.

I'll slide this in now ... The "well, alcohol and nicotine are potent drugs and they're legal" argument does not work for me on any level. I think our societies accepted use and subsequent abuse of those poisons (or any other) doesn't really work as an argument for tossing out all laws with regard to drugs. It's a little anarchic, counterproductively so, to do away with the rules all together just because there are a few (or many) poorly thought out laws.

Jedi Clint has said some things that I think are important. Regarding "a restructuring of the laws and their enforcement in regards to drug use, possession, and dependency" I would agree that how we deal with the end results of our laws, that being punishment over prevention, is a shame. Again, I believe that teaching a general understanding and respect for all narcotics will help to prevent misuse. We're quick to hang people for their mistakes, but we do a poor job of helping each other as a community to prevent them. Regarding "A very dangerous and common misconception induced by the lack of information and spread of misinformation about marijuana" I would say this works on a lot of levels, but again here my main point applies ... respect and understanding prevent misuse.

Exhaust Port just said something that ... Ooooh baby ... do I know to be true from plenty of first hand experience. Regarding "Marijuana is a drug. You might not want to believe that it's a true drug but it is. I truly believe and so do many other people that marijuana users can't be trusted to be "occasional users" or better society for allowing access to another drug. Look at the extent to which people will go to use this drug. People have been fined huge amounts of money, imprisoned or even killed for the simple fact that they want to have this drug. Has this deterred anyone from not using?" I'd say this ... pot doesn't turn you into a genius. The end result of a good bag of weed is that you end up pretty stupid and don't really care much about anything but yourself and how good YOU feel in the end. I saw the word "selfish" in that same post and this would tend to be the word that I use to categorize most pot smokers.

Dead Jonna has made a bunch of good points regarding "Also as I have stated before, there is no watchdog group (FDA) checking the quality of the product so you never really know for sure what you are getting." Yeah ... I wouldn't trust a "company" to manufacture the product if it WAS legal. We see what we get with tobacco products ... I certainly can imagine some of the creative advancements in Cannabis genetics. Why not just mass produce it and dole it out to the general public ... perhaps a good product name would be "Soma (http://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html)". Conversely, I don't trust any current illegal sources for the drug. The last time I smoked pot, eighteen years ago, it was a "bad" batch and consequently that was the first time that I didn't really know where it had been grown. (Personal history: I grew up close enough to Humbolt County in Northern California to know where my "produce" was coming from.) Much of what's out there today (OK, let's say all of it) comes from unreliable sources.

So ... what's my point? I think the current laws work to our advantage merely by default.
I think that NO one can be trusted to grow the plant or manufacture the drug. We can't even get decent produce in the average grocery store for people to eat ... most "poor" neighborhoods in my area don't even HAVE grocery stores with produce. Draw you own cynical conclusions about the ghettos getting one grade of marijuana while the wealthier crowd gets another.
I think that pot makes people stupid and selfish. I know it made me stupid when I was younger. I saw it make all of my friends stupid too. Years later in college I watched it make rooms full of people into total morons. I've never in my entire life (and again, I've been around pot smokers for 34 years) been around a "clever" stoned person. I wouldn't trust someone that I knew was a habitual or even occasional (recreational) user as far as I could throw them.
I think that most people's respect for the drug is nonexistent and therefore disgraceful. One thing that I have learned from my own experiences, and from watching the mistakes of MANY others is that our society in general does not deserve to have free reign when it comes to these "illegal" substances ... Marijuana included. I stated earlier in a much shorter post ... that I would approve of legal personal use and growing. I would love to see it happen and in a perfect society (that doesn't exist) it probably could, but not in ours. Unfortunately.

OK. Now I'm going to go get ripped on TheraFlu.

rynobot
11-01-2002, 02:14 AM
I say yes to all counts!!

To bad it won't happen aslong as the governtment keeps lying about how "dangerous" it is.

We should all just move to Amsterterdamn! :)

I use to be anti drug before but then I smoked some marijuania and know I feel that it is not bad. Hard drugs are a completley other story though and have no connection with MJ.

I think we all need to remember that caffine is also a drug and so is Ibeprofuin and any other medicine you get perscribed by a doctor. They all effect your body and/or mind and may have harmfull side effects.

QLD
11-01-2002, 10:15 AM
Yeah, Amsterdam is LOVELY now... :rolleyes:

Their main problem now is the under 15 drug addicts. Adults buy the drugs at their local store where it is legal, and sell it to the kids who can't legally buy it. Now, as a result, it is easier for kids to get drugs, and Amsterdam has 10 year old addicts wandering the streets, doing horrible things for money.

I just don't forsee legalizing drugs making our country better. Not at all. And as far as lightening the load on prisons making it legal, I think people shouldn't go to prison for smoking pot. However, they should be required to pay very stiff fines if they are caught, and it will go on their record. Hit 'em in the pocketbook! Once a dopehead has to pay 10,000 to the city for his high, and clean trash on the side of the road for months because he can't afford to pay it, maybe, just maybe they will think twice before toking again.

mabudonicus
11-01-2002, 11:00 AM
Whoah, the big problem in amsterdam is still smack (or heroin), that's the one that causes all the real serious crime problems, just liek here in Vancouver, between heroin and cocaine addicts there's certain areas that even I am scared to occupy (it's on the other side of the continent, but I've been there and it's freaky).
Pot doesn't make you "lose all sight of everything", or at least it never did that to me....
Sure, that "whitey" thing is a possibility, even with experienced users it can happen, but I've seen people keel over and crack their head open (or, alternately just fall to the ground and heave their guts out) smoking tobacco for the first time, it is just a reaction that certain people can have to certain things, and things that are inhaled hit your bloodstream a lot faster than things that are ingested...
I can't say much here as jjreason is a good friend of mine :):),
but I know a lot about the stuff first hand, shall we say.
I've met some "clever" users. Without clever users, STANSE would have remained a pipe dream. Just like how oysters are aphrodisiac to some and lethal to others, it really totally depends on the individual, as stated by many "luminaries" in this thread so far.
And to respond to jedi clint's comment, that is the truth for SURE, the ridiculous "over-rating" of the DANGERS of marijuana can only set the stage for a "that's IT??? THAT's the DEVILS PLANT??"
When I tried it, it didn't really do anything, and as the result of the bombastic doom-and-gloom, armageddon, end of life promises that the media made (and curiosity) I felt the need to check it out again, then again a few more times, just to make sure I wasn't somehow missing something, cause I swear, it wasn't what I was certain (terrified?) it would be at all...
Where's JJ???:):):)

JediTricks
11-01-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
I thought in the old days, all you needed was to grow tobacco to make cigarettes?

Why the heck can't you grow tobacco in your back yard and make your own cigarettes?Smokeable tobacco has to be processed and requires a lot more area to grow 1 cigarette's-worth than the equivelant of cannabis (and the cannabis plant yields several different crops from that plant, several different drugs and hemp, a strong, durable fiber often used to make rope). Therefore, marijauna is a threat to the tobacco industry - who for around 30 years have had a fully-developed backup plan in case marijuana does go legal involving their own brands of marijuana cigarettes complete with advertising campaigns.

Marijuana, like cocaine, was not illegal in this country until the 20th century. Marijuana's medical benefits have been used the world over, with records of this dating back as far as 2737 B.C. where it was used in Chinese medical texts. Cannabis was brought to Europe around 500 A.D. for its medicinal and intoxicant uses, as well as rope and textile purposes. Hemp was even one of the major crops in Colonial America. Only in the 1930s did the US gov't decide there were no medicinal values and convince the public that it had no use and was merely a gateway drug, and from that initial push, within 40 years it became a federal crime to have. Yet, this naturally-occurring plant gets such a negative stigma whereas other naturally-occuring mind-altering plants like peyote/mescaline and mushrooms/psilocybin get off nearly scott-free makes no sense at all.

Our country has shown time and time again that prohibition only promotes organized criminals to succeed, the people still crave their illicit substances only now they hide it and get poorer-grade product. 80 years ago, bathtub gin caused some folks to go blind but they'd risk it anyway for another sneaky nip at the flask; in the last 20 years or so, low-grade marijuana has been laced with formaldahyde and other chemicals to simulate higher quality despite added health risks to the buyers.

I personally neither smoke dope nor cigs, I rarely drank before and have completely stopped for many years now and I don't miss it. Pot is like booze except with some carcinogenic properties - if we're not going to get rid of cigarettes which have more of the same, then pot is no more dangerous than cigs & hooch. Kids are huffing glue and paint and solvents now adays - kids shouldn't smoke pot PERIOD but it seems like the target of public ire is misdirected since these everyday household items are WAY more harmful than dope; people are still driving drunk or going to work messed up on Nyquil when they're sick and acting irresponsibly, pot isn't gonna change that. Legalizing pot will take the "ooh naughty!" stigma that some folks have away from the substance, it won't be as "cool" to hang out under bridges and get wasted anymore because there's no fear of doing something bad - pot will still make your teeth yellow and your clothes smell, it'll still give you cottonmouth and the munchies, and all in the quest to get you intoxicated - legal or not.

Cannabis has been around for at least 5,000 years, it's a surprisingly robust and capable plant that is ridiculously easy to grow and yields multiple uses. As a textile, it has many benefits; as an intoxicant, it is no more dangerous than alcohol; and as a medicine, it has extensive properties -- I see no reason to keep it illegal, though that doesn't mean I'm going to use it if it does become legalized.


ps - I believe George W. had the medicinal marijuana law overruled federally a while back, closing down the medicinal marijuana health center for AIDS and cancer victims in Hollywood. There was a month-long hunger strike to protest this and unfortunately, it appears the strikers lost more than their protest.

InsaneJediGirl
11-01-2002, 07:07 PM
In my opinion,legalize all drugs.Its much risker letting people go to high-crime areas and trying to buy drugs then letting them go in tightly-controlled shops and buying some.I'm not saying if you get caught with 15 pounds with drugs you should be let go,but a small amount is fine.

The issue with kids is this.My parents threatened to kill me if they ever found me doing risky behavior.Maybe if we stop being soft on offenders(Cough..Noel Bush..Cough) kids will think twice before using.:D