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JangoFart
11-08-2002, 10:44 AM
Ok. I just noticed something that has me a bit disturbed.

I'll preface this by saying that I enjoyed TPM, flaws and all, and saw it 8 times in the theater. I really enjoyed AOTC, flaws and all, and saw it 6 times in the theater. Last night, I watched ANH and came to this horrible conclusion: the Prequels SUCK!

I can't believe I'm saying this, but, compared to the Classic flicks, they are outright horrible. (Keep in mind that, all in all, I still think that ROTJ is the worst of the flicks b/c I don't believe a group of bite-size rodents could whip any trained army and b/c Vader is a ragin' puss; but, I digress...)

Here's what I'm talking about: I'm talking from a STRAIGHT "movie" perspective. As a "movie", ANH was INCREDIBLE! WAAAAAY ahead of its time and, still, has not been touched in terms of impact and presentation (although ESB nipped at its heals) Now, I'll also say that ESB, while not the "movie" that ANH is, is my favorite of the bunch.

When I say "movie" experience, I'm throwing the universe out of consideration here - no nothing SW related as baggage to the impression the movie will have on you. For instance, the first Robocop - I, for one, had never heard of Robocop prior to the first movie. It is then the movie MAKER'S job to get you into the flick and universe; not the VIEWER'S job to get into it b/c of everything you already know.

Don't get me wrong: I love me some Yoda throwin' down and some Maul/Jinn/Kenobi scrappin' from the prequels. But, here's my take on these scenes: take between 2 and 4 small diamonds and throw them, as hard as you can, into the middle of a huge lump of bovine crap. Take your hands and fish 'em out. That's ALOT of crap to go through for 2 - 4 small diamonds. But, it's diamonds, so most of us would do it, wash our hands, and have fond memories of our diamonds; while ignoring the crap we had to go through to get them.

With this in mind, watch ANH and ESB. (I'm warning you, don't watch that steaming heap called ROTJ - it will make you lower your standards too much) and THEN watch TPM and AOTC. You will see that it is US, the viewers, who made the Prequel movies "Star Wars" movies b/c Lucas sure as heck didn't.

I'll close with saying this: these are Lucas' babies. He created them and, as far as I'm concerned, he can destroy them if he likes. No one tells me how to raise my babies and I won't tell him how to raise his. I just like the THINK I have a vested interest in the SW world b/c of the TONS of money and time I've poured into it. But, of course, I do not.

J

The Overlord Returns
11-08-2002, 10:50 AM
You know what they say about opinions........... ;)

Why bring this up..........yet again?

JangoFart
11-08-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
You know what they say about opinions........... ;)

Why bring this up..........yet again?

1. Yes, I know what they say and yours is right in there with mine;

2. I'm sorry, I missed the burning discussion prompted by you. Please point me in the direction of the thread so I can play along.

:)

J

The Overlord Returns
11-08-2002, 11:13 AM
I mean in general. This is a topic that's been discussed ad nauseum for what......4 years now?

Can we really break any new ground?

I'll respond to you initial post on me lunch break :)

Jedi Master Silas
11-08-2002, 12:33 PM
I love them all for different reasons......ANH ROTJ and ISB are phenom movies they were way ahead of their time with the effects the visuals etc...but....I love the new ones too.

Pendo
11-08-2002, 12:48 PM
I agree that the Classics are millions of times better than the PT, but I wouldn't say the PT SUCKED! Although they're not as good as the OT they're still great films :).

Also, have you only just watched the OT for the 1st time? I don't know how you didn't realise how much better they were until now.

PENDO!

Deoxyribonucleic
11-08-2002, 12:52 PM
It's like the abortion issue - it's never ending! :D

The Overlord Returns
11-08-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by JangoFart
Ok. I just noticed something that has me a bit disturbed.

I'll preface this by saying that I enjoyed TPM, flaws and all, and saw it 8 times in the theater. I really enjoyed AOTC, flaws and all, and saw it 6 times in the theater. Last night, I watched ANH and came to this horrible conclusion: the Prequels SUCK!



How could you enjoy them, yet say they suck because they're not as good as another film you saw? I could simply state that watching Citizen Kane made me realize just how much A New Hope sucked. I enjoyed a new hope, but Citizen Kane as a film is far superior. Did it make me hate ANH....no......


Originally posted by JangoFart


I can't believe I'm saying this, but, compared to the Classic flicks, they are outright horrible. (Keep in mind that, all in all, I still think that ROTJ is the worst of the flicks b/c I don't believe a group of bite-size rodents could whip any trained army and b/c Vader is a ragin' puss; but, I digress...)



I absolutely believe that the ewoks could defeat stormtroopers. They have a history of showing off their obvious short comings. Now, had the ewoks faced clone troopers....


Originally posted by JangoFart


Here's what I'm talking about: I'm talking from a STRAIGHT "movie" perspective. As a "movie", ANH was INCREDIBLE! WAAAAAY ahead of its time and, still, has not been touched in terms of impact and presentation (although ESB nipped at its heals) Now, I'll also say that ESB, while not the "movie" that ANH is, is my favorite of the bunch.



While ANH was a head of it's time, it was filled with sloppy dialogue, hammy acting (harrison ford and Guinness the only exceptions....and even Harris had trouble at times)ESB and AOTC are far better films that anh, imo.....


Originally posted by JangoFart


When I say "movie" experience, I'm throwing the universe out of consideration here - no nothing SW related as baggage to the impression the movie will have on you. For instance, the first Robocop - I, for one, had never heard of Robocop prior to the first movie. It is then the movie MAKER'S job to get you into the flick and universe; not the VIEWER'S job to get into it b/c of everything you already know.


Not quite sure what your point is here....


Originally posted by JangoFart


Don't get me wrong: I love me some Yoda throwin' down and some Maul/Jinn/Kenobi scrappin' from the prequels. But, here's my take on these scenes: take between 2 and 4 small diamonds and throw them, as hard as you can, into the middle of a huge lump of bovine crap. Take your hands and fish 'em out. That's ALOT of crap to go through for 2 - 4 small diamonds. But, it's diamonds, so most of us would do it, wash our hands, and have fond memories of our diamonds; while ignoring the crap we had to go through to get them.

With this in mind, watch ANH and ESB. (I'm warning you, don't watch that steaming heap called ROTJ - it will make you lower your standards too much) and THEN watch TPM and AOTC. You will see that it is US, the viewers, who made the Prequel movies "Star Wars" movies b/c Lucas sure as heck didn't.



It was also the viewers that made the OT films Star Wars movies. That is fairly obvious. Lucas has crafted more Star Wars movies. What he has not done is cranked out the same star wars films as he did 25 years ago, which is what SO MANY of the old time fans seemed to be expecting.


Originally posted by JangoFart



I'll close with saying this: these are Lucas' babies. He created them and, as far as I'm concerned, he can destroy them if he likes. No one tells me how to raise my babies and I won't tell him how to raise his. I just like the THINK I have a vested interest in the SW world b/c of the TONS of money and time I've poured into it. But, of course, I do not.

J

Hmm...well....can't really comment on your babies and what you do with 'em ;)

JangoFart
11-08-2002, 01:10 PM
Yeah, I just watched them for the first time.... :rolleyes:

Saying the prequels are "great films" is like saying Bud Light is "great beer" - it's beer, no doubt. But "great" it ain't.

My point in starting this thread was to point out MY PERCEPTION of the entirety of SW films for their quality as movies. The Matrix rocked! (like ANH - both story and presentation are top notch) Will 2 and 3 rock too? I don't know, but I sure hope so. TPM came out the same year as The Matrix. Guess which one is a better MOVIE? Not TPM. AOTC came out the same year as Spiderman. Guess which one is a better MOVIE? Tougher comparision, but I'd still give the nod to Spidey.

Like I said, I've seen the PT movies tons of times and, all in all, I enjoyed them for their overall entertainment value. But, on par w/ ANH or ESB? That's like saying that The Karate Kid III is just as good as the first one. (Of course, everyone knows that The Karate Kid and "Harold and Maude" are the "greatest movies of our time")

J

Imperial Monarche
11-08-2002, 01:11 PM
this really gets borin after awhile because no matter how much lucas tries, theres still gonna be the critics. you talk like the only reason u liked ANH is because of the quality that it was ahead of its time. well, guess wat, there is no such thing as a groundbreaking movie anymore. everything else is a copy. so basically, by jangofarts logical, every star wars movie after ANH sucked. why do you even like star wars? basically it just comes down to this, if you don't like it, dont watch it!!!!!

Beast
11-08-2002, 01:14 PM
*Wakes up, seeing a topic that's been discussed ad nausem for the past four years, rolls over and hugs his stuffed Jar Jar and goes back to sleep. zzzzzzzzzzzz.*

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

The Overlord Returns
11-08-2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by JangoFart
Yeah, I just watched them for the first time.... :rolleyes:

Saying the prequels are "great films" is like saying Bud Light is "great beer" - it's beer, no doubt. But "great" it ain't.

My point in starting this thread was to point out MY PERCEPTION of the entirety of SW films for their quality as movies. The Matrix rocked! (like ANH - both story and presentation are top notch) Will 2 and 3 rock too? I don't know, but I sure hope so. TPM came out the same year as The Matrix. Guess which one is a better MOVIE? Not TPM. AOTC came out the same year as Spiderman. Guess which one is a better MOVIE? Tougher comparision, but I'd still give the nod to Spidey.

Like I said, I've seen the PT movies tons of times and, all in all, I enjoyed them for their overall entertainment value. But, on par w/ ANH or ESB? That's like saying that The Karate Kid III is just as good as the first one. (Of course, everyone knows that The Karate Kid and "Harold and Maude" are the "greatest movies of our time")

J

First and foremost, while I admire you for saying that bud isn't great beer ( horse urine is what I would liken it to) Americans, unfortunately, will only know what great beer is when they come up north here ;)

Again, all of your arguments hinge on your personal view. In my mind, Matrix is a good film. Not the cinematic wonder that everyone says it is. It blatantly rips off the premise of Grant Morrisons Invisibles, and talk about a film laced with plot holes.

As for spiderman ....I found it an overly cheesy film with some rather hammy acting and bad dialogue. the action sequences were good, and the origin back story was done well.

Deoxyribonucleic
11-08-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
*Wakes up, seeing a topic that's been discussed ad nausem for the past four years, rolls over and hugs his stuffed Jar Jar and goes back to sleep. zzzzzzzzzzzz.*

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Hehe...true enough! :)

QLD
11-08-2002, 01:35 PM
Oh yeah?

Well I think Expanded Universe is better than BOTH of them.

And no, I'm not really kidding.....

I enjoy the books as much, if not MORE than ALL of the movies.

So have fun with THAT one. ;)

JangoFart
11-08-2002, 01:44 PM
No wait! I've come to my senses! EVERYTHING about ALL movies, especially SW movies, is FLAWLESS! Nothing to criticize here...

Holy crap, I can't believe the error of my ways! How DARE anyone question the Big G? Should Greedo shoot first, boys? Yes, Mr. G, YEEEES!! Should "Ani" scream "Yipee!!!" at this point? Yes, Mr. G, YEEESS!! Should we have a floopy-eared, stupid-talking baffoon try to carry the movie at this point? Yes, Mr. G, YEEES!!

I can now go on. I'm feeling all Celine Dion now.....

J

JangoFart
11-08-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
Oh yeah?

Well I think Expanded Universe is better than BOTH of them.

And no, I'm not really kidding.....

I enjoy the books as much, if not MORE than ALL of the movies.

So have fun with THAT one. ;)

I'll play along with that, with the exception of ANH and ESB. I admit that I'm too damn lazy to read the book-books, but read all the comic adaptions and love them. (Read some of the older ones b/f I got burnt out on reading by college and law school - Han Solo at Star's End, etc.) Almost all I've read are better than ROTJ, AOTC, and TPM.

Of course, not at one point did I say I hate the PT and would never watch it again. I'll be the nerd in front of all you nerds on the 12th to buy the DVD for AOTC b/c nothing's perfect and I love me some Star Wars. "The Adventures of Ford Fairlane" was a horrible movie. Would I watch it tonight if I had the DVD? Damn right. "A Boy and His Dog" was a horrible movie that I'd love to watch again.

Of course, they are ALL put to shame by Dong's pic of Reese. :D

J

The Overlord Returns
11-08-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by JangoFart
No wait! I've come to my senses! EVERYTHING about ALL movies, especially SW movies, is FLAWLESS! Nothing to criticize here...

Holy crap, I can't believe the error of my ways! How DARE anyone question the Big G? Should Greedo shoot first, boys? Yes, Mr. G, YEEEES!! Should "Ani" scream "Yipee!!!" at this point? Yes, Mr. G, YEEESS!! Should we have a floopy-eared, stupid-talking baffoon try to carry the movie at this point? Yes, Mr. G, YEEES!!

I can now go on. I'm feeling all Celine Dion now.....

J

???????

JangoFart
11-08-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns


???????

Exactly.......

J

stillakid
11-08-2002, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by JangoFart
No wait! I've come to my senses! EVERYTHING about ALL movies, especially SW movies, is FLAWLESS! Nothing to criticize here...

Holy crap, I can't believe the error of my ways! How DARE anyone question the Big G? Should Greedo shoot first, boys? Yes, Mr. G, YEEEES!! Should "Ani" scream "Yipee!!!" at this point? Yes, Mr. G, YEEESS!! Should we have a floopy-eared, stupid-talking baffoon try to carry the movie at this point? Yes, Mr. G, YEEES!!

I can now go on. I'm feeling all Celine Dion now.....

J

Wait, I'm having deja vu, only it isn't me. :D



Overlord,
I've found that I agree with just about everything you have to say. Including the Matrix. What a waste of a good concept. But anyway, I do want to ask you about this one:

Originally posted by The Overlord Returns

While ANH was a head of it's time, it was filled with sloppy dialogue, hammy acting (harrison ford and Guinness the only exceptions....and even Harris had trouble at times)

I've seen this statement pop up several times in various places and even asked for examples, but none have ever really been forthcoming. Would you provide a list of the sloppy dialogue and hammy acting moments for me? Perhaps I've been pummeled and numbed by the atrocious acting and screamingly bad dialogue in the Prequels too much to take notice of any minor glitches in the OT. But then again, perhaps I've just overlooked them. :)

QLD
11-08-2002, 02:06 PM
Reese is delicious!!!!

And EU is fantastic! If they could only work Reese into EU, then life would be perfect.

JangoFart
11-08-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
Reese is delicious!!!!

And EU is fantastic! If they could only work Reese into EU, then life would be perfect.

Have you seen "Freeway"? I had never seen it and the wife and I were in FYE the other day and she was all "You gotta buy this DVD, the movie's great!" So, I bought it and it was very cool! I think that was her first major roll and she totally rocked.

Reese in EU: I hereby cast my vote as "Yes". :)

J

Beast
11-08-2002, 02:21 PM
They can cast Reese to play Callista. :evil: :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

QLD
11-08-2002, 02:23 PM
And maybe they can get that Jesse guy that was a VJ on MTV for a while to play Jar Jar! I like this already!

Beast
11-08-2002, 02:26 PM
Jesse who? I think Ahmed does a fine job. Why would you recast him? :) :confused:

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

QLD
11-08-2002, 02:38 PM
Because they wouldn't even have to do any special effects anymore. That guy IS Jar Jar incarnate. Maybe even more annoying.

Beast
11-08-2002, 02:43 PM
I'll take your word for it. I never really watched MTV, except for Beavis & Butthead and Daria. I don't care much for music, it makes me ill. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JEDIpartner
11-08-2002, 03:19 PM
Okay... here's my take on them. The original films (minus ROTJ) are absolute classics. NO ONE makes movies like that anymore... not even LOTR was as good as the original films.

HOWEVER... I must add that AOTC is, to me, just as good as ESB- if not better in some ways (and I AM an ESB guy all the way!). The prequels are still light years better than most of the crap that goes to film these days.

In short... they do not suck (to me). They are just "different".

JangoFart
11-08-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by JEDIpartnr
Okay... here's my take on them. The original films (minus ROTJ) are absolute classics. NO ONE makes movies like that anymore... not even LOTR was as good as the original films.

...

In short... they do not suck (to me). They are just "different".

OK. I hereby edit my statements that they "suck" and adopt this statement as my own (with your permission, of course :) )


HOWEVER... I must add that AOTC is, to me, just as good as ESB- if not better in some ways (and I AM an ESB guy all the way!). The prequels are still light years better than most of the crap that goes to film these days.

The first time I saw AOTC, I thought it was as good as ESB. By the 4th time, I thought otherwise b/c I THINK that the last half-hour of AOTC made me forget the bad of much of the rest. (Not that the entirety of the rest was horrible, just not up to par with the last 1/2 hour) Perhaps if I watch the DVD a few more times and stop watching ANH and ESB, I'll get that feeling back. I do agree it is better than most of the crap that comes out today.

J

JEDIpartner
11-08-2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by JangoFart
I do agree it is better than most of the crap that comes out today.

J

Man... I knew you would! ;)

QLD
11-08-2002, 03:40 PM
Yeah....I mean, they COULD have been as Armageddon..... *shudder*