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Dar' Argol
11-08-2002, 07:51 PM
Anyone seen the new commercial for AOTC yet??? I just saw it on Cartoon Network. Ugh, it was bad. It stars off "Who's Da Man???" then you see Yoda and Dooku fighting and a few other scenes, then they say, "YoDa Man!" Ugh! Then they show some more sences and talk about it being availiable Nov 12. Then at the very end, they show Yoda and say, "Yoda Da Man!" Soooo bad. But I guess it did make me sniker . . . . . . .. . a little.:p

Beast
11-08-2002, 08:06 PM
I hate that commercial, with a passion. I know Yoda is popular, and it's funny the first couple of times that you see it. But they play it so much, that I can't stand to see it now. It's like that one song for the Batman movies, that was always on the radio. "Kissed by a Rose", I think is the title. That's probably one of the reasons I don't like music anymore. :p :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

James Boba Fettfield
11-08-2002, 08:49 PM
Seal sang that song, and Seal reminds me of Pendo.

I like the part where they explain it being perfect. Own the first perfect clone on DVD*! Then they tell you what they mean by perfect. Yeah, so I liked the commercial. Highlighted one good reason to own it.

Jedi Clint
11-08-2002, 09:05 PM
I'd simply like to know who thought up such a brilliant advertising campaign :confused:

Beast
11-08-2002, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Jedi Clint
I'd simply like to know who thought up such a brilliant advertising campaign :confused:
Do you even need to ask? It was probably Ricky "Grandmaster B" McCallum. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

QLD
11-08-2002, 09:24 PM
YoDA Man

*beep beep*

What is "Who are the ad wizards that came up with THAT one"


Correct!!!

Beast
11-08-2002, 09:31 PM
Why didn't they just take the next logical step, give Yoda a gold tooth, dress him in cool clothes, and had him say "Bling Bling". :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Jedi Clint
11-08-2002, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Why didn't they just take the next logical step, give Yoda a gold tooth, dress him in cool clothes, and had him say "Bling Bling". :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Careful now. We still have a few days left before it's release!

Lord Tenebrous
11-08-2002, 11:03 PM
There was an Internet home video advertizement that defined AOTC as the 'key' to the Saga, and this promo was far superior to the current television ad, except for some poor music editing at the end. Quite well done, about 10 MB and 4 minutes long.

I can't remember if I found it on another board or at a site, but the file is episode2trailer1.asf, created on 9/11/02. It starts out with the text "You've Lived the Legend".


They should have edited this one for television play.

JediTricks
11-08-2002, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
YoDA Man

*beep beep*

What is "Who are the ad wizards that came up with THAT one"

Correct!!! YES!!! That was exactly what I was thinking when I first saw this monstrosity, right down to Sandler's grating voice! :D And the guy they got to do the v.o.-work in this ad is so overused these past few years especially anything ethnic they want to vomit into an ad that the first time I saw it I thought it was a hoax.

Another thing that bugs me about this commercial is that "perfect clone" comment, which they stepped up in a recent ad by explaining in bigger letters what it meant. But it's a total lie because this film was transferred to DVD the same way Episode I was, they were both put through the digital effects systems at ILM before being regurgitated out. We're not seeing only bluescreen shots straight from the camera on this DVD, we're seeing a completed film that went through the post-production computers like every other big-budget effects movie of our time.

Beast
11-08-2002, 11:21 PM
You are incorrect on that JediTricks. It was not transfered to DVD the same way that E1 was. E1 was transferred to DVD from a print of the film. Where as E2 was transferred to DVD from the original digital source. :)

You forget that E1 was shot on film, where as E2 was not. So the E1 movie, already had a step of being on film stock, before it was transfered to computers for insertion of digital effects and editing.

When it was time to release the E1 DVD, it was decided that it would not be transferred from the digital version of the film, and instead the DVD would be made from a copy of the actual film. That was to have the look of the film match better with the OT.

They decided instead for E2, just to do a direct transfer from the computer files to the DVD. Why the decision to change was made, isn't all that clear. Some of the major DVD websites suggest that it was done, because of the complaints of the video quality of E1. That is probably the case in this instance as well. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JediTricks
11-09-2002, 12:27 AM
I forgot nothing jarjar, the transfer concept is basically the same, the DVDs were both captured from product spewed not from the camera but instead from the post-production computers at ILM. In fact, the video capture method had literally nothing to do with how the image got from ILM to DVD. Digitally filming the movie had diddly squat as to how the DVD got its data. The ad would have viewers believing that Lucas used those digital cameras to film the Geonosians interacting with Ewan McGregor on the set, took that digital image and slapped it directly onto a DVD.

Beast
11-09-2002, 12:32 AM
There is no basically the same. They were not transferred to DVD the same way that ever other movie has been. Period. Hell, before E2 and Jason X, unless the scene of the film featured Special Effects, it wasn't even run thru the computer. That was done to save money. They talk about that on the Jason X DVD. :)

So the concept is hardly the same. E1 existed twice on film stock, before it ever was transferred to DVD. Where as E2 only existed on film stock, for the versions that were printed for distrubution to theaters. It's not that hard a concept to understand. E1 DVD = Transferred from film source. E2 DVD = Transferred from the digital film files.

You might want to do a little research on the DVD's, before commenting on them. Since it's quite obvious you don't know what your talking about. The transferring of E1 and E2 to DVD were done using totally different methods. The only similar concepts involved was that they were Star Wars films. :p :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Jek Porky 2002
11-09-2002, 09:48 AM
We have an ad for it over here in England too, it sounds pretty much exactly like the one you are talking about except for the Yoda Da Man part. The only thing that gets me is the cheesy rock music that plays over it, whats that all about?

stillakid
11-09-2002, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
There is no basically the same. They were not transferred to DVD the same way that ever other movie has been. Period. Hell, before E2 and Jason X, unless the scene of the film featured Special Effects, it wasn't even run thru the computer. That was done to save money. They talk about that on the Jason X DVD. :)

So the concept is hardly the same. E1 existed twice on film stock, before it ever was transferred to DVD. Where as E2 only existed on film stock, for the versions that were printed for distrubution to theaters. It's not that hard a concept to understand. E1 DVD = Transferred from film source. E2 DVD = Transferred from the digital film files.

You might want to do a little research on the DVD's, before commenting on them. Since it's quite obvious you don't know what your talking about. The transferring of E1 and E2 to DVD were done using totally different methods. The only similar concepts involved was that they were Star Wars films. :p :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

As I wasn't up north when the Ep I transfer happened, certainly I couldn't know the true method of DVD creation, but they did have a digital version of the movie (that we saw in Burbank and a couple other places). What exactly would be the motivation to create a DVD from a "film" source instead of the digital source? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but as I said, I wasn't there. What JT is saying sounds more logical, to me. Perhaps there is some documentation someplace that someone could share which explains exactly how they created the Ep I DVD. Thanks! I'll look through my own stash of industry magazines to see if I have it someplace.

Beast
11-09-2002, 11:16 AM
They asked Van Ling, the person who did the discs why it was decided to do E1 from a film source, instead of using the digital tranfer that was made for the few digital theatrical showings. He stated that they decided to do that, so that the picture quality more closely matched the OT films. That was also confirmed by Rick McCallum, at the big Lucasfilm Ranch DVD press confrence years ago, when the E1 DVD was being hyped. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
11-09-2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
They asked Van Ling, the person who did the discs why it was decided to do E1 from a film source, instead of using the digital tranfer that was made for the few digital theatrical showings. He stated that they decided to do that, so that the picture quality more closely matched the OT films. That was also confirmed by Rick McCallum, at the big Lucasfilm Ranch DVD press confrence years ago, when the E1 DVD was being hyped. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

That's bizarre. It makes a little sense in that typically when a standard movie is shot on film and has ILM fx done, the digital fx shots have to be degraded to match the rest of the movie. But following that to the logical end, if they did that with TPM, the final product, digital versions and otherwise, would have already been "degraded" before we ever saw it. Ergo, there would have been no need to transfer from a film source vs a digital one, unless the digital versions had artifacts that they didn't want on the DVD, like pixelization and such.

But, given that image acquistion for Ep II was entirely digital, what's the plan, if the reason given above (to match the OT) is legit? Degrade the image artificially for the DVD or did they do that for the theatrical release in the first place? Something doesn't make sense here...


One other (unlikely) possiblity is if Lucasfilm's post facilities (proprietary?) digital files are inherently incompatible with the technology used for creating DVD's. It's a stretch, I know, but it's another maybe.

Beast
11-09-2002, 03:21 PM
I think they just decided to say screw it, and not degrade it at all. Like I said before, quite a few people had complaints about the E1 transfer. So maybe attempting to make it match the OT better by transfering from film stock, didn't work as they hoped.

I don't see any problem at all with the E1 transfers, but some people are pickier then most. Perhaps Lucas is going to tear apart the restored OT negatives, have them recleaned again, scanned into a computer and then transferred to DVD. So that they will match E2's transfer better.

Either way, the picture quality of the E2 has been reported as nothing short of spectaculer. All the DVD websites that I have visited, pretty much agree that it's the nicest transfer to possibly ever appear on DVD. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JEDIpartner
11-10-2002, 01:43 PM
Okay... back to the commercials!

I HATE that "Who Da Man!" commercial more than ANY other film commercial I have ever seen. Yes, even "Turtle! Turtle!"

The second one isn't so bad, but it seems like they are trying to make this film "more exciting" to generate more sales from the Generation Y buyers. Whatever with the commercial's soundtrack. Stoooopid!

InsaneJediGirl
11-15-2002, 12:57 PM
Well,after seeing the commerical,I swear,more than a thousand times on FOX between the 12th and 13th,I really feel like going more insane:crazed::crazed::crazed: Yes..Yoda is cool,but not cheesy!

LTBasker
11-15-2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by InsaneJediGirl
Well,after seeing the commerical,I swear,more than a thousand times on FOX between the 12th and 13th,I really feel like going more insane:crazed::crazed::crazed:

Cartoon Network has been doing that too. I wish they'd show just an a regular commercial for it then it wouldn't be so annoying. Either that or take some of the original trailers and modify them so they can advertise the DVD.

jad
11-22-2002, 01:13 AM
Has anyone seen this editorial.
http://www.thedailyaztec.com/Archive/Fall-2002/11-19-02/opinion/opinion02.html

It was posted at TF.N, I really wish they would stop linking to these negative driven editorials. (In my opinion it just goes to show how they can't come up with any original content on their own to post, but thats a topic for another thread.)

....Anyway i'm sure there are many people that will agree with this editorial, it's just that I don't understand why people who have this unnatural hatred of the man that is George Lucas and the Prequel Trilogy just can't go ahead and give up on star wars and get on with their lives. They say thats what they're doing, but is that true, when all these years after TPM, they are still being so vocal about it?

I'm sure i'm opening up myself for attacks from all you who would agree with this editorial, that's your opinion and that's fine. But my opinion is that these sort of negative editorials can ruin the enjoyment of all us who do like or even love the Prequel Trilogy as well as the Classic Star Wars films.

I apologize for my rant, but after seeing this type of thing over and over again I feel that I can no longer hold in my own opinion and so we have this thread that I have started. I welcome all of you're personal feelings and opinions on this topic. Lets have em :)

mini-rock
11-22-2002, 01:27 AM
I didn't even bother reading it. Why? B?C I've heard all the negative comments about the PT before. Let's see these guy's make a better movie.:rolleyes:

Beast
11-22-2002, 01:31 AM
I didn't bother reading it either. There is no sense getting upset about this sort of thing. We've been reading in these very forums the same stuff since 1999 rehashed over and over again. "George Lucas raped my childhood", "George Lucas lost his mind", "Someone please stop him", blah blah blah. Best thing to do is just ignore them and roll your eyes. As they say, opinions are like a**es, everybody has one, and everyone thinks that theirs don't stink. ;) :D And I agree with Mini-Rock, lets see these people make a better movie. :p :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jad
11-22-2002, 01:34 AM
Yes I agree totally. I really should take your advice and ignore it. But unfortunately I have ignored it for a while and it sorta has been bottled up inside me. So my frustrations have come out in this thread. Thanks for bearing with me, I think I feel better now ;)

Beast
11-22-2002, 01:38 AM
No problems. I enjoy the prequels myself, sometimes more then the OT films that I have seen many many more times then I can sanely count. I've debated endlessly, and pointed out how everything fits together perfectly, but it's not worth it.

People are going to believe, what they want to believe. Even if Lucas showed those people actual proof that this was what he wanted back in the 70's and 80's, they would still cry foul. Just look at the Clone issue right now. Even though Lucas even states on the DVD, that that is what he always had in mind for the Stormtrooper origins, some people just can't take it. :)

Same thing with Boba Fett. Look at how Lucas actually took a charecter that effectivly does nothing in the OT, who has about as much depth as a Stormtrooper, a rich intresting backstory. And what do you get, people screaming how the charecter was ruined. :)

To expand on the Boba Fett theme a bit, what have we heard so much from alot of the prequel detractors. About how Jango Fett died like a punk. Well, I don't see his son going out in a glorius noble way, he was smacked in the back by a blind man, flew into a barge, and then got eaten, while trying to shoot Luke. :stupid: :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jad
11-22-2002, 01:51 AM
I agree with everthing you just stated. Especially that about Boba Fett. I think GL did an amazing job tying it all together. And I think the canon history of Boba Fett is by far more interesting than that of which EU Authors have come up with.

But like you said some people will just never accept it. It's almost as if they get them selves into this mindset before seeing the movies that George Lucas is evil and they'll hate it no matter what. And they hate a person that they really don't even know on a personal level, yet they make very personal attacks on his creative skills. Ah well it is their opinion. It just seems that being so vocal and hateful (the dark side;) can't be healthy.

jedibear
11-22-2002, 02:38 AM
Well I just read the "editorial" and....everyone's entitled to their opinion. The only thing I agree with the the writer mentions is that insanely BAD commercial for the AOTC DVD ("Yo Da Man"). It is really awful...almost embarassing. But how something is marketed in this country should never really be an indicator of the quality of what's being sold. How many times (before the advent of the we'll-show-you-everything ones) have movie trailers gotten us pumped to see something only to barely resemble the final product? (Or the flip-side to that...how often has a studio been incapable of properly promoting something that defies classicfication but it finds an appreciative audience anyway?)
I'm sorry this guy can't feel the magic from Star Wars anymore...for whatever reason....be it "growing up" or just vainly looking for a way to write some "hip" peice of fluff to take up bandwidth somewhere...
But one of the things I respect about Lucas is he sticks with what he claims the story is...the well-known classics feel more intimate and simple because they ARE & the prequel trilogy (thus far) is much grander and more thematic...it's setting up the worlds and the situations for the pay-offs we all know so well.
David Ansen wrote around the time of Episode One's release that it was a major flaw to do the prequels because who would care about hearing/seeing a story if we all know the end? I have to disagree with him...learning the HOW & WHY so far has been both thrilling & intruiging, not to mention giving much more meaning to the classic trilogy. By the time it's finished, viewing Episodes IV, V & VI will almost be like watching a new set of films once all the peices fit together.
Have I agreed with ALL of Luca's choices? No, of course not...in my mind's eye Greedo did NOT shoot first & Luke didn't scream falling from the gantry (& yes, while I've gotten used to him now, even feeling a little sad for how gulible he was in AOTC, I did wince when Jar Jar uttered his first few lines) but I most definately think the magic is still there & am anxiously awaiting the final chapter....& I'm a little older than that english senior that's so fond of the word "suck".

Beast
11-22-2002, 02:44 AM
Frankly, as far as Trailers go, there were some really bad ones for the original trilogy as well. Most of them haven't been seen for years, but they were included on the Star Wars: Definitive Collection Laserdisc Boxset. Yoda Man may be a horrible commercial, but that doesn't mean the movie is terrible. Case in point, the original Star Wars trailer. I need to drag it out for the whole trailer, but it ends with: "It's the story of a boy, a girl, and a Galaxy." Definate 70's Cheese factor. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jad
11-22-2002, 11:16 AM
Thanks for your thoughts Jedibear. Very well said. It does make me feel bad that people like this can't enjoy the films and the magic that is behind them. And by being so vocally negative about them they are pretty much locking their mindsets and ruining any future chapters of star wars for themselves before they see them.

Jar Jar I remember seeing that trailer for star wars with the "It's a story of a boy..." line in it. I think I saw it online somewhere years ago, and I really did think it was cheesy. I was having a discussion with one of my work mates about the Yodaman commercial. I said how thats Fox's advertising that created that lame commercial, but he thought GL had to approve every bit of advertising that was produced for his movies. I'm not sure thats true. Does anyone know anything about that?

Mandalorian Candidat
11-22-2002, 12:12 PM
I just want to sound off briefly on this one. I too didn't fully read the article because I'm also tired of the same old "GLu killed SW" line. However, I do subscribe to a view that GLu's failings with making the movies on the same par with the OT is that he didn't have the same type of collaboration as on the OT. Instead of having people to provide constructive criticism with the plot and the dialogue we have yes men to simply carry out his orders, as evidenced in the behind the scenes docs on the EP1 and EP2 DVDs.

However, I will submit to the membership of the SSG forums for validation that the overriding reason for the perceived difference from the OT and the PT is with ourselves. How many of us were seven or eight when they first say ANH, or ESB, or ROTJ? We watched these movies through the eyes of a child in an age when F/X weren't at the level of today and fantasy movies weren't prevalent like they are now. Being 30-something I can't see the prequels like I did as a kid. My 7-year-old son, however, loves everything about the prequels, even JJB somewhat. It sounds to me like this guy just hasn't recognized the fact that he's no longer a kid and these movies don't have the same impact on us as they used to.

stillakid
11-22-2002, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Mandalorian Candidat
We watched these movies through the eyes of a child in an age when F/X weren't at the level of today and fantasy movies weren't prevalent like they are now. Being 30-something I can't see the prequels like I did as a kid. My 7-year-old son, however, loves everything about the prequels, even JJB somewhat. It sounds to me like this guy just hasn't recognized the fact that he's no longer a kid and these movies don't have the same impact on us as they used to.

However, :) I can still look at the OT through my eyes as an adult and still enjoy them. The above point of view assumes that kids are idiots who don't understand subtle story telling and only respond to bright shiny objects. I don't agree.

True, we don't have the benefit of seeing the Prequels as children anymore, but our perception doesn't automatically negate the empirical differences in quality screenwriting between the OT and the Prequels. As children, we do respond to different aspects of a film than adults do, but what the OT shows us is that it was done so well, there are levels there for every generation to enjoy. In 1977, the lines were full of people of every age group for well over a year.

In contrast, the backlash against the Prequels by adults, primarily, shows us that these movies do not have the depth of quality that the OT films did. Yeah, kids enjoy them for the same reasons we as kids enjoyed the OT films. Cool spaceships, aliens, great laser battles etc. The true test of time, though, will be to ask the kids of this generation in 20 years to reevaluate the Prequel stories. I submit, that they too will then have the presence of mind, the benefit of advanced education, and the maturity to see beyond the flashy production design and understand just how poorly George has followed up his timeless epic.

But, as always, that's just my opinion. :)

mini-rock
11-22-2002, 11:19 PM
I saw the OT when I was a kid and I do love these films, but in comparison to the PT, the OT is so much more cheesy now. From special effects to the dialog to some of the costumes. Thank God I was young when I saw the OT b/c they just wouldn't hold up if they had been released today. The PT however has everything going for it that every other movie maker could only dream for their film.;)

JediTricks
11-23-2002, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by jad
But my opinion is that these sort of negative editorials can ruin the enjoyment of all us who do like or even love the Prequel Trilogy as well as the Classic Star Wars films.How do they ruin your enjoyment? I'm honestly curious about that, I've heard it before since I liked neither of the prequels very much nor many of the Special Edition changes, but I don't understand how someone's stated difference of opinion can ruin your enjoyment of Star Wars at all. Is it a matter of wills? Is your viewpoint so weak that it cannot stand up to challenging? Do you take it as a attack upon you personally? I can't see any of those being the answer, but I also can't see what the real answer is since this editorial isn't sitting in front of you when you watch the film making noise and wearing a giant foam rubber cowboy hat.

Certainly, no matter how much I might love the Star Wars movies, my enjoyment of them isn't diminished when someone says "ANH is a cheap piece of trash with thin acting and crappy effects", I simply don't agree with the statement and move on, I don't even have to say anything to disagree.


As for Lucas, I don't hate him, but I do truly dislike what he's done with the Star Wars saga since he took back the reins. I feel like he's turned into some Howard Hughes-esque billionaire who has no idea what he started as and what he was originally trying to do now that he's surrounded himself only with yes-men that lessen the quality of his work. He also acts like everything good about the original Star Wars films was his sole doing when so much of it was Kurtz and Kershner and McQuarrie and Kasdan and Marcia Lucas and so many others saying "no, this isn't right, we have to do it another way" and forcing George Lucas to make a better movie. It seems like he has all this power to do whatever he wants but has corrupted his original vision somewhere down the road, thus it's very frustrating to me to see more and more of that done to this saga I once felt very strongly for. I still love ANH and ESB, and even ROTJ to a degree, but I feel like their magic is being mortgaged away to these new films with every new step.



Originally posted by mini-rock
Let's see these guy's make a better movie.:rolleyes: When I taste chipped creamed beef, I don't have to know how to make it to know I don't like it. :p


These "Yoda Da Man!" commercials aren't the death of Star Wars IMO, but they are something that diminishes the saga a little more in my eyes, and in such a crass way.

mini-rock
11-24-2002, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
When I taste chipped creamed beef, I don't have to know how to make it to know I don't like it.

Huh?

Beast
11-24-2002, 03:46 AM
Just typical JT logic. Meaning that he can't do a better job, but he can still hate the job that was done. :p I disagree with him saying that the commercials diminishes the saga. The same could be said for the hundreds of websites (SSG included) and all the merchandise for the Saga. That stuff wouldn't even exist without Star Wars. And that includes the prequels. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

scruffziller
11-24-2002, 05:22 AM
I have always hated how companies try to market things by trying to encorperate a lame imitation of their intrepetaion of the hip hop culture. I love hip hop always have always will. But hip hop should remain hip hop and should not be mixed with another culture and likewise with other genres. This is rather similar to what some of the WAL MART commercials have been doing too and it is so whack!!!!! It is a mortal sin to speak ebonics and talk about country music in an excited fashion of itself while doing so.
Like "Man that Garth Brooks is dope!!" "Man that country concert was off the heezie!!!!!!" And in a way that is essentially what they are doing with YO DA man. Mace Windu's "This Party is over!!!" Was dancing dangerously on the edge there.

JediTricks
11-25-2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Just typical JT logic. Meaning that he can't do a better job, but he can still hate the job that was done. Ever heard the expression "cram it out your blow-hole"? :p BTW, I'm not saying I can't do a better job to know something lacks, just that I don't think such a talent is a prerequisite for forming a personal judgment about said thing -- neither of us knows for sure whether I could do a better job, just because I don't like the Honda car name "Prius" doesn't mean I'm going to run around town renaming every Prius I see. If you didn't like the taste of shellfish, I wouldn't expect you to be able to grow a better-tasting shellfish in order for your opinion to be valid.

mini-rock
11-25-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Ever heard the expression "cram it out your blow-hole"? :p BTW, I'm not saying I can't do a better job to know something lacks, just that I don't think such a talent is a prerequisite for forming a personal judgment about said thing -- neither of us knows for sure whether I could do a better job, just because I don't like the Honda car name "Prius" doesn't mean I'm going to run around town renaming every Prius I see. If you didn't like the taste of shellfish, I wouldn't expect you to be able to grow a better-tasting shellfish in order for your opinion to be valid.

That has to be one of the worst excuses for a cop-out that I've heard.;)

stillakid
11-25-2002, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock


That has to be one of the worst excuses for a cop-out that I've heard.;)

Please elaborate, because your own statement above makes no sense. :confused:

Suggesting that someone run out and "make a better movie" because the one they saw wasn't good in their eyes is silly for a couple reasons. One, it assumes that all "filmmakers" are capable of making quality films and all non-filmmakers don't possess the potential of doing so. Also, it is a non-argument as the practicality of someone "outside the system" running out to "make a better movie" is impossible. The sheer logistical resources required to mount even a modest production are out of reach for most people, not to mention the practical know-how of running a set and seeing the project through pre-production to post and beyond to distribution.

So, while you might disagree with someone's (JT's) position on a topic, suggesting that he "go make a better movie" to prove it is itself illogical and without merit as an argumentative position. :)

wedgeA
11-27-2002, 05:13 PM
I think that since we as fans spend our hard earned money on this stuff, we pretty much have the right to commend or criticize the material as we please, whether or not we are capable of doing a better job. That being said, some criticisms are pretty moronic (ie Seven Samurai would be better in color).

As for the commercial, it's pretty cheesy, and I hate it. It really seems to be patronizing the lowest common denominator factor. Compare it with the commercials for the LOTR:FOTR EE, which market on a more sophisticated and subtle level.

jedibear
12-03-2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks


As for Lucas, I don't hate him, but I do truly dislike what he's done with the Star Wars saga since he took back the reins. I feel like he's turned into some Howard Hughes-esque billionaire who has no idea what he started as and what he was originally trying to do now that he's surrounded himself only with yes-men that lessen the quality of his work. He also acts like everything good about the original Star Wars films was his sole doing when so much of it was Kurtz and Kershner and McQuarrie and Kasdan and Marcia Lucas and so many others saying "no, this isn't right, we have to do it another way" and forcing George Lucas to make a better movie. It seems like he has all this power to do whatever he wants but has corrupted his original vision somewhere down the road, thus it's very frustrating to me to see more and more of that done to this saga I once felt very strongly for. I still love ANH and ESB, and even ROTJ to a degree, but I feel like their magic is being mortgaged away to these new films with every new step.



Well....I gotta respectfully disagree with ya there JT. I was in the camp you allude to up above (the one thinking Lucas needs some strong personalities ala Kurtz, Kersh et al) for a while...especially after the special editions...and to this day there's still a few changes in those editions that just don't work for me.
But when it comes to the prequels....I started to waiver. Thanks partially to the gifts of DVDs and all the background chatter we now get to be privy to, it casts a new light on it.
Yes, Lucas can surround himself with people that are there to strictly produce his vision and while on the surface it appears that they're all goose-stepping and toting the line (especially with head cheerleader Rick McCallum in the forefront), but when you view some of these behind-the-scenes glimpses, we get a taste of what the other people are bringing to it. People like Trisha Bigger who brings an educated, well-thought out vision to the costumes...using all sorts of influences both familair & new to create the textured look we enjoy. Rob Coleman, John Knolls and that army of artists all get to somehow put their stamp on what they are contributing. It may not be as flashy as a Kersh or a Ford but it's there.
Now that we have two-thirds off the prequel done, we can really get a sense that like Lucas has been saying for years...that it's all one big story and that the different generations have completely different tones, looks & feels to them. Think about it! Real life (history) is that way too...the fifties were streamlined, slick & overdone while the seventies looks worn & kitch-filled (incidently these are the generations Lucas knows the best...they were the height of his youth...it's not a wonder that their basic outlines & qualities influence SW so much...along with a great love and respect for history).
I think the basic thrust of your argument is that Lucas isn't the same...that somehow he's been corrupted by his own success & is just too self-indulgent. That could be true....from a certain point of view. But as far as this fan is concerned, the ride through that galaxy far, far away is getting more interesting the closer we get to the end of it.......

stillakid
12-03-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by jedibear
I think the basic thrust of your argument is that Lucas isn't the same...that somehow he's been corrupted by his own success & is just too self-indulgent. That could be true....from a certain point of view. But as far as this fan is concerned, the ride through that galaxy far, far away is getting more interesting the closer we get to the end of it.......

For me, the question is "interesting" or "confounding?" It seems pretty apparent to me, anyway, that Lucas has become that which he claimed to be against. It was the Hollywood studio system that both drove him to shoot Star Wars across the pond in the first place as well as place his facilities well out of reach up north.

However, while he now has what practically every filmmaker desires, that being complete autonomy and creative freedom, he clearly is now making choices based on traditional Hollywood studio fear. By second-guessing what he thinks kids will like and dumbing the stories down for them, he's compromising his own saga for the sake of "insuring" financial return on his significant investment. The catch-22 of that method is that is almost always fails in the end. The story becomes less than it could be (and should be) at the expense of creating a "safe" movie. Evidence of that is clear with the goofy side-kick, Jar Jar Binks, the gratuitous fart jokes, and George's new overuse of movie stars to bring in audiences.

Not to mention the fact that significant doses of "rationalization" and "point-of-view" are required to cauterize the gaping wound of continuity flowing from the Prequels, continuity that he's compromised for various reasons, including "pleasing the fans" (a backstory for Boba Fett), "dumbing the story down for children" (Midichlorians to explain the Force), and just plain ego (not asking Lawerence Kasdan back to help write the Prequels).

So, in the end, it's really been no surprise at all to see the kinds of embarrassing marketing that have been associated with these films.

JediTricks
12-03-2002, 09:24 PM
jedibear, when I watched the Ep 2 DVD stuff, I didn't see a lot of people saying "this is how it should be if we want it RIGHT", I saw and heard people saying "I thought it would be better this way, but George convinced me otherwise" and "I thought Obi-Wan getting on the Reek looked to comical, but George wanted it, so it stayed" and stuff like that. I didn't see any walls for George to overcome in the documentaries, nobody was telling him he shouldn't do something. I'm not saying it was all bootlickers all the time, but certainly it seemed like the smooth, well-oiled "do what Lucas wants" machine to me.

Also, and this isn't aimed at you or anybody in specific who doesn't work at Skywalker Ranch or a subsidiary of LFL, but if it takes a DVD to make these movies "good", then maybe the movies should have been made better before they were initially released. Look at the IMAX edit, Lucas apparently barely even touched it, let others do all the cutting - nothing was added - yet it's considered a much better version of the movie than the original product.

Dar' Argol
12-06-2002, 12:49 AM
Hmmmm . . .back to topic.

I still hate this commercial, although now I see they have scaled the length back. Its still a painful commercial, but now I'm not in agony as long:D

mini-rock
12-06-2002, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Dar' Argol
Hmmmm . . .back to topic.

I still hate this commercial, although now I see they have scaled the length back. Its still a painful commercial, but now I'm not in agony as long:D

:p I know what you mean. Even though it's shorter I still run from the room with my hands over my ears when it happens to come on.:eek:

JediTricks
12-06-2002, 06:01 PM
I recently figured out that the voice over guy in this ad is the voice over guy for Fox's television stuff, ads for what's on next and such. So now I can't watch Fox either! :D