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rherk
11-26-2002, 11:56 AM
Ok. word on the street is if a figure is in collection 1 then it always has a silly action feature. Please give me the real deal on this and if it's true then I am very afraid for the Luke Jedi.

The Overlord Returns
11-26-2002, 11:59 AM
Why? Everyone LOVES Bespin Luke from collection 1...and he has a silly action feature...

Why not wait to panic until you actually see the figure?

rherk
11-26-2002, 12:06 PM
Because I'm a pessimist. If I prepare for the worst then I won't be dissappointed.

By the way, I must be the only one on this thread who doesn't think that Luke Bespin is that great. Yeah, it has great articulation. However the face is kinda silly and bruised up. I prefer the other Luke Bespin.

Prince Xizor
11-26-2002, 12:09 PM
It's supposed to be all bruised up, he is from the scene where he is hanging from the weathervane in Cloud City. It would have been stupid for it not to be all red and messed up.

rherk
11-26-2002, 12:29 PM
Well, I'm not a fan of the scene specific look. I have an imagination of my own and a red sharpie so if I feel like bruisin up a toy I can do it myself.

fourtwo
11-26-2002, 01:54 PM
he looks too cool hanging from that weathervane.
i think its a quality figure, despite the feature which is kinda hokey.

LTBasker
11-26-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Why? Everyone LOVES Bespin Luke from collection 1...and he has a silly action feature...

Why not wait to panic until you actually see the figure?

Please don't try to speak for me, I hated the way they ruined Bespin Luke. ;)

There is however a possibility of a figure making it through without a gimmick. Chewbacca, Yoda and the Clone Trooper made it through with the gimmicks in their accessorys.

sideswipe1984
11-26-2002, 02:27 PM
I listened to all of that "Wait until the figure actually comes out before you assume the worst" nonsense with both Obi-Wan pilot, and Tatooine Attack Anakin. In both cases, it was as I feared: the foolish Action Features were incorporated. As for Luke Bespin - YES, he is a great figure. But IMO, that is despite the fact that he has that Action Feature. I don't really think that any collector (if they are being honest with themselves), prefers a button sticking out of Luke's back to a non-AF version.

I can almost guarantee that Hasbro will include some sort of silly saber-swingin' action for ol' Luke. Much to my chagrin, of course.

Unlike many collectors, I prefer the core characters to the ancilliary ones. And because I despise the Action Features inherent in Collection 1, The SAGA collection hasn't been the most pleasant line for me.

But, if I were to present a (very thin) thread of optimism towards Jedi Luke, it is that his Action feature may be something incorporated outside of the actual figure (though, what this may be, I have no idea). But, I don't really believe that for a second.

JEDIpartner
11-26-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by rherk
Well, I'm not a fan of the scene specific look. I have an imagination of my own and a red sharpie so if I feel like bruisin up a toy I can do it myself.

I'm not a fan of the "Scene Specific" figures either (if that was any secret before I posted this reply), but it IS a good figure... for what it is. I, too, would have preferred a Luke with a built-in "use your own imagination to recreate the scene" feature. I suppose that is asking a little much. Still... I think the Jedi Luke won't be completely terrible- unless they use the head from the Luke in the forthcoming Trash Compactor pack! Oy!

:eek:

stad
11-26-2002, 03:06 PM
I have to agree with rherk, I'm a pessimist too. That way, if I'm wrong, then everything is great! If it goes bad, at least I have the satisfaction of being right.

Jargo
11-26-2002, 03:07 PM
I'm not that big a fan of the final version of Luke Bespin either. I preferred him without the knees and definately without the stupid button carbunkle posability be damned thing. How can i say i prefered the figure without knee articulation? well Galactic hunter posted four pics yesterday from an EBay auction of the prototype when it was coming with the CD still. I have to say it looked way better than the final thing. It used the same head and the same arms but it just looked more solid. Sure the pics arwa painted hardcopy which always look better than the production run figure but even so the legs seem more real. Those knees on Luke are really ugly nasty. The weathervane is crap too. All bent up and rubbery. And pale blue plastic? it could at least have been done in gray. Stupid gimmick and stupid accessory. So add me to the list of people who don't like the figure as it ended up.
Luke Jedi will probably have some sort of two handed lightsaber hacking action to smash vader to the ground. Or maybe he'll have a super flipping effect with magnets in his feet so he can't actually stand. The original sculpt for him will probably be fantastic and super detailed and then some schmuck witll go and shove that crappy gimmicky action feature in there and totally #### it all up.

stad
11-26-2002, 03:12 PM
Right on!

sideswipe1984
11-26-2002, 03:33 PM
LOL, Jargo, you hit the nail squarely upon the head.

....carbunkle....LOL...priceless. :)

Chiesa
11-27-2002, 03:54 AM
I think that the Bespin Luke was one of the best figures of the Saga series. I'm an optimist :D I have the feeling that the Jedi Luke will be just as awesome if not better than the Bespin Luke.

Cheers...
:D:D:D:D

jjreason
11-27-2002, 08:43 AM
I liked Bespin Luke, and found his action feature to be about the best one - lesser of all the evils shall we say. I like posability as long as the joints are tight enough, my Bespin Luke's are. My Daredevil from Spider-Man Classics joints are not tight, and despite the millions of options in posing, none will stay the way I leave it.

If Saga Luke Jedi is comparable to Saga Luke Bespin, Ill be very pleased. I hope they include a soft cloak like the vintage, one that actually fits on the figure unlike Pilot Obi Wan. Great cloak though. Oh, and it would be kind of cool to release a few with a blue saber....not for movie accuracy, but kind of throwbacky to my younger days.

Jayspawn
11-27-2002, 10:28 AM
I really liked Bespin Luke. Cool figure, neat accessories.

I'm optimistic about the upcoming Jedi Luke.

"Bring it on Hasbro!"

Jargo
11-27-2002, 02:27 PM
See, optimism is good in theory but it gets so tiring, kind of like, Oh well - this one wasn't everything we hoped for. Never mind maybe the next one will be brilliant.
Well there's only so long you can sustain that cheery optimism for. Sooner or later the craw starts to stick in your throat and you have to sag under the effort of grinning and bearing it. I'd rather just say what i feel and hope it gets through to the boys who make the things so they stop doing silly things as an experiment in toymaking and just get on with the job of making ggod product that works and does the job.
I've said it before but i'll skim it again, I have a lot of respect for the designers and the sculptors of the figures, It's a lot of skill and ultimate patience to make something that accurate that small. They do a fantastic job on the original sculpts and the original paint applications. Those painted hardcopies are little works of art. But then someone somewhere orders them to tool in some missile flinging crap and the whole thing goes west. To accomodate the spastic action arm movements they have to bulk out the torso, to accomodate the riverdance leg kicckinhg action they have to cut into the midriff section and hack away to get the ugly joints in. To get the unreal body twists of the quickfire spasm they have to hack at the waist and so it never fits right and always seems to have a five millimeter gap in the middle and then there's the obtrusive activator levers sticking out like an alien growth. Worst of all is when they do it to a figure that has a strange pose to begin with. Take Zam Wessell, she has that weird leg pose which on its own might have been tolerable but it also has the articulation so she's a pain to stand up, then they give her a feature in the face change mask thing. And then they go and completely stuff the whole thing up by shoving the quickfire arm spasm action in too. Totally incapacitating the figure for anything other than statue duties with arm up or arm down. Either way because there's a strange angle to the arm she won't hold her weapon right. If they'd stopped at the face and the articulation I'd probably have dealt with it fine but that arm thing just makes me wonder why they bothered to make the sculpt in the first place.
Then there's the same thing with luke Bespin, Articulation and a feature with the removable hand which would have been enough with that accessory but then they add in the stupid stupid waist twist which jerks him round so he drops his gun and can't fire and the whole thing is capped off with a huge HUGE button activator in his back that's not even color keyed to the figure itself. Ruined in a day that figure was. It's totally gilding the lily IMO. Unneccesary and unwarranted. Just a hald assed experiment at our expense. I can't actually believe that there are people out there who buy these things thinking that if they buy the crap ones it will encourage Hasbro to continue making the toys seeing as the interest is still there. Well as far as I see it if you keep buying the crap toys they'll continue to think the crap gimmicks are popular and it'll never end until there's nothing in the blister on the card but a gimmick. No figure just a gimmick with a little note to say sorry about the lack of toy but we know you'll enjoy playing with your missile firing backflipping interchangeable projectile quickfire lightsaber slash.
I really want to appreciate the work that goes into the toys but some of these figures I can't bear to touch or even look at anymore. They're even useless for customising with because you only have one usable arm or leg. The other one is mangled up with internal workings that don't work or jointed in such a way you have nothing to attach to a figure if you take the gimmick arm out.
Leave out the stupid gimmicks and they can pack in a lot more accessory or another smaller figure.
The only type of figure that should have a gimmick is something like the salvage droid that packed with Teemto Pagalies. That provided a useful action that was in keeping with the movie, an action the droid would normally have performed, picking up debris and flying it back to the junkyard. It would have been pointless to release a dsalvage droid without the grabbing action so it's a fine device for it to have. One move characters such as Count Dooku or Padme arena escape or Han Solo Endor or Luke Bespin are making a mockery of this toyline. For every one really good figure there seems to be a matching awful one. I vote that it's time that changed.

rherk
11-27-2002, 06:21 PM
Amen

Darth Sidious
11-27-2002, 06:49 PM
Exactly Jargo! SALVG DR0 was an absolutely incredible accessory, I enjoy playing with him more than I do most figures! Some gimmicks in accessories are fine, like SALVG DR0's grabbing action or even both of the Clonetrooper's firing guns. I also loved KE Jango's firing missile. It was pretty damned cool, and if you didn't like it there was a perfectly good dummy missile you could replace it with. More cool accessories, LOTS of articulation, a soft goods robe, attention to detail, careful paint application, and NO BLOODY GIMMICKS are the things that will make this figure the next 300th Boba Fett. :) Hey, just though of something-Imagine how cool Jedi Luke's green saber (Handle) will look if it is metal! I can't wait!

jjreason
11-27-2002, 08:13 PM
Funny, the polarity on this figure/issue. Usually the consensus is pretty unanimous "Hmm...Palpatine and Ephant are pretty good" "Yep. Pretty good." Not this time. I don't love the action features, but if I had decided to buy no figures including them, my epII collection would be the scoots. Sometimes we have to indulge Hasbro in order to happy ourselves - and I for one won't stop buying them if I don't love everything about every figure. I wouldn't have STARTED getting SW figs again if I felt that way, based on the first few POTF2 human figures.

I think innovation in sculpt, design and paint technique has kept this line evolving and fresh, even though some of the "improvements" can hardly be classed as successful. I wouldn't hold my tongue if I felt a generally lauded figure should be hammered - that's not my style. Padme arena attack and Anakin Outland Pegwarmer disguise weren't worth the packaging they occupied, and I don't pretend to feel or say different. I still think they're generally doing a good job at improving the product and keeping it fresh. If 2003 shows the improvement we've seen in 01 and 02, we should all be happy for the most part at this time next year. Let's hope the new Jedi Luke and Hoth Han (which were 2 of my very favourite figures as a youngster) help propel this line forward. They don't need to do much to make them great figures, and it won't take much to screw them up either. Im keeping my fingers crossed!

Edit: Oops, read this over and forgot to hammer a lauded figure. I don't love the clone pilot's leaning sculpt. Who the heck's idea was that? Why? Anyone? I was way to excited about getting this figure to be disappointed. Not fair. Now Im only getting 2, not the dozen or so I'd planned on. The sidearm is stupid too. Mind you, the gun is made of hard plastic, which is good, but why so long? And that bubble....yikes.

Bib Forlobster
11-28-2002, 06:58 AM
The only figures where the gimmicks seem to be acceptable are the ones where they're not incorporated directly into the figure such as the Chewbacca Bespin escape with C-3PO. If you don't like the gimmick, you can easily separate it and still have a great figure. Teemto and the Clonetrooper are also good examples. Fans of gimmicks and fans of no gimmicks can both be happy if Hasbro did all the gimmicks this way. I was disappointed with the Bespin Luke and prefer the older version, also. Hopefully, Hasbro won't ruin the Jedi Luke in the same manner. If they have to include a gimmick, make it three different hands that can be changed (Skin, Blaster scarred, Gloved) or something like that where it doesn't take away from the figure. I can even live with the magnet in the hand for the metal hilt sabers. Of course, Hasbro's biggest targets are the little ones, and if they like the gimmicks they'll win. The collectors will be second place. Just think of all the cool figures we'll be getting when the line does start to die down and the hardcore collectors are all they have left!

Jargo
11-29-2002, 08:29 AM
Hasbro assumes that kids like the gimmicks which is why they target collection one that way. But in actual fact the kids I see buying go for the collection two figures because they don't like the gimmicks. Once they've fired the missile a few times and it gets lost what is left to do with deluxe mace Windu? and so it goes. Kids want to re-enact scenes not movie stills. They want to use their imaginations and extend the storyline into new realms that gimmick riddled figures won't let them.
I agree about the accessories having the gimmicks not the figures themselves. I don't call removable hands a gimmick. I call saber slashing, quickfire arms, force push, kicking, all of those built in gimmicks that hamper posing in a toy. Leave all of that out but stick with cool stuff like removable helmets and soft goods, If Luke was made in his medical gown from the end of ESB I would find it perfectly accesptable for him to have swappable forearms that shoed his arm with and without the cybernetics showing. The same applies to Luke Jedi as stated above, swappable hands to reflect certain moments in the story would be cool and it doesn't hamper the play factor to do that. If Luke had a fixed lightsaber slashing attck movement he would be useless for anything other than a lightsaber slashing attack. Not all of us want a Luke to be weilding a saber but a figure with that gimmick would mean we would be stuck yet again wauiting and hoping for a decent Luke Jedi, a neutral Luke Jedi.
Bottom line is that kids want the same qualities in a toy that we do and the disparity in the two collections shows when it's normally collection one figures pegwarming. Kids want to be treated with respect and hasbro are treating them like they are second class, like they don't know what they want. Well what kids want is good product that doesn't break and doesn't get tiresome quickly, product that actually does what it's supposed to and doesn't disappoint within the first minute of opening. All the star wars figures should be of the collection two standard. Kids are being sold short with crap like the deluxe figures. With the exeption of the Nexu all the saga deluxe figures have been appalingly bad and not worth the effort. They certainly don't justify being called deluxe because they most certainly are not. In fact trading standards regulatory bodies could be called in to check up on Hasbro selling under false pretences.
Hasbro really needs to have a good look and a long rethink about what it is they're selling and to who, they need to stop assuming and start asking, start asking us whaty it is we want. It's pointless to just churn out product if no-one actually wants it. A little more consultation with the people who buy the product might help them to get the belance right. Hasbro UK can get off their backside and ask collectors in the UK what their buying habits are so why the hell Hasbro US can't do the same is beyond me. They don't care or can't be bothered seems the answer. But then, a company that believes the strength of its products lies in the hands of Mr. potato head is really not to be taken seriously.

jjreason
11-29-2002, 10:04 PM
Hehehehehe.....I like ranting! Good job! There is an underlying huge issue being unearthed - the fact that Hasbro is not seemingly taking any "fanboy" feedback. They'll regret it and wonder what happened by 2007 if they don't start - the sooner the better. There was a seemingly fairly well supported movement originating from this forum around the time epII was released which involved inundating Hasbro with petition letters demanding some say in what goes on with the line. Maybe that sounds farfetched, but I don't think they'd choose to sacrifice their gold mine's future for cash right now. Star Wars never has to end if they play it right. Too bad, but I for one am pretty sure they won't.....shortsighted as they seem to be.