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Sidiously Darth
11-04-2001, 02:55 PM
Picked it up last night. All I can say so far is wow! I haven't started reading it yet, but it's 606 pages long. I might be done in time for Ep. II.

El Chuxter
11-05-2001, 01:07 PM
Warning: BIG Star By Star spoilers ahead!

Don't say you weren't warned.

;)

Spoiler in
3
2
1
-------------
Not a bad read so far--I've got about 50 pages left to go. I'm beginning to wonder how they decide the plot of upcoming novels. Do they have a dartboard with everyone's name on it and throw darts to see which character(s) die?

I'm more shocked by Anakin's death from a storytelling perspective than his death as a character. He's been so built up in the past few novels that it's a letdown to have him go out like he did. And hasn't Han been through enough in the NJO?

With Anakin dead and Jaina fallen (though I doubt that will last even to the end of the novel), Jacen might be the galaxy's last hope. Well, him and Vergere, who's obviously a deep cover Jedi operative from the old school!

Coruscant about to fall, and Garm Bel Iblis a sure goner? Borsk showing backbone just before the inevitable defeat?

Can't wait to finish this. But I hope he NJO doesn't go on too long, or it'll just be Jacen Solo all by his lonesome in this big ol' galaxy! :D

Eternal Padawan
11-06-2001, 11:02 AM
Gaaah!! :( You TURD!;) I didn't want to know that!! :( Arrgh! :mad: I guess you did say SPOILER.:rolleyes: But, man.....darn it all. :( Well, now I HAVE to read this. I was going to put it off until after I had read Fellowship of the Ring again, but now I think I'll have to go grab this and read it.

(sigh) first Chewie, and now this. Any chance he might come back? No? Well, I suppose you can't have both Ben Skywalker and Anakin Solo running around as heirs to the Vader legacy in future books so ONE on them had to go.;) Mark my words, Han and Leia will be dust before this series is over. Just giving you all fair warning... :eek: :)

El Chuxter
11-06-2001, 01:08 PM
Sorry, EP. But it turns out Anakin's only the tip of the iceberg. :(

I'm really surprised the final battle over Coruscant wasn't edited after the September 11 attacks. I think a lot of folks have overreacted with the intensity of their edits, but I really didn't want to read detailed descriptions of exploding skyscrapers. But at least that was less weird than the Yuuzhan Vong using ships full of hostages as kamikazes. Of course, they are religious fanatics who'd rather sacrifice and destroy than convert or coexist, so it is fitting, from a certain point of view.

I'm feeling pretty torn on the NJO. On the one hand, they've been (with the exception of Balance Point and, to a lesser extent, Rebirth) great reads. On the other hand, they're way too dark for Star Wars, they make Palpatine's rule seem less evil by comparison, and, well, does anyone else think it's really beginning to push the limits of plausibility? It's one thing for a nutso group from another galaxy to come in with the intent to conquer and end up causing some serious damage. But for them to acheive almost total conquest in less than two years? And what's with all the groups outside the Republic (the Hutts, the Empire, the Corporate Sector, the Corellians, the Hapans, the Chiss) joining in for one battle, then going home?

Eternal Padawan
11-07-2001, 10:18 AM
Having time to dwell on it, I have come to the conclusion that as history repeats itself (especially in Star Wars) this series will end with Han, Leia , and Luke sacrificing themselves (DEAD.) which will allow the next generation to come to bear. Jacen will be the Obi-Wan character. Ben Skywalker will be the Luke character. And after a long period of dormancy, Anakin will return cobbled together with machine parts and being a very angry Darth Vader character. Any takers?

THE Slayer
11-07-2001, 04:13 PM
There may be spoilers here, so read at your own risk.

Well once I started to read this book, I couldn't wait to finish. I can't belive Anakin is dead!! but by the way this book ends who knows, It seems like the author, name?, just wanted to keep writting. I hope the next book picks up right where star leaves off, otherwise they'll be backtracking to answer questions. I don't like that, It's an easy out. I was really hoping that vergere could have saved anakin, Yeah I know that makes no sense if his cells literaly burt themselves up??? whatever, and why didn't he just use all that lovely glowing force to heal instead of sacrifice!!

Speaking of Vergere, i heard that she was in some pre episode one books? So does that make her the oldest living jedi in hiding? Maybe in all her wonderful years she learned of some wonderful way to bring the dead back.. anyways after reading the book it feels kinda like the 'empire strikes back' of the series. Which means there still is a lot to be told.

I can't type anymore I'm to upset that the author stopped writting about anakin!!

El Chuxter
11-07-2001, 05:48 PM
Vergere is a Jedi in Rogue Planet (between TPM and AOTC) who has gone missing. Obi-Wan and Anakin are dispatched to find her on a world where bio-engineered spacecraft are grown. A mysterious force from outside the known galaxy, who detest all things mechanical, tried to steal the biotech of this world, and Vergere was fascinated by them. She went with them when they left, hoping to establish diplomatic channels.

How she ends up, though. . . . Either she's a great bluffer, or her Jedi self only pokes through a separate personality occasionally.

THE Slayer
11-07-2001, 08:07 PM
So she is the oldest jedi alive since yoda was supposedly the last, but died.
...spoiler...

I think she's great bluffer. At the end of star she some of her mystical tears drop on Jacen's shoulder and he ask "Vergere were you-" But she cut's him off and says "Yes Jacen." "I was crying for you." I really thought she was gonna say that she was a jedi. But who knows, I guess thats why I keep reading these terribly depressive NJO books.

El Chuxter
11-08-2001, 11:18 AM
So far, she's cured Mara Jade Skywalker, healed Jacen (thanks for pointing out the significance of that scene--it completely slipped by me!), overlooked sensing Jaina in the voxyn lair, and defeated Tsavong Lah at dejarik by using a very sneaky move. She also apparently forgot her ruse briefly when she was holding Anakin's lightsaber, wielding it like a seasoned pro (until Jaina's attack brought her to her senses).

As for the oldest, I suppose it depends on whether Vima da Boda is still alive. Wasn't she like 200 or so in Dark Empire?

OC47150
11-08-2001, 02:07 PM
I read the first book introducing the Yuuzhan Vong to the SW universe. Could you guys tell me which books to read next? I'm not interested in reading the side stories at this time.

preacher
11-08-2001, 02:30 PM
Actually, none of the NJO are side-stories per say. If you mean books where supporting characters are the protagonists instead of the old school heroes i.e luke, leia, han, chewie (oops hehe forgot chewie croaked...force of habit) then you will want to stick with the books that were hardbound first. Shown with asterisk.

Vector Prime*
Onslaught
Ruin
Hero's Trial
Jedi Eclipse
Balance Point*
Conquest
Rebirth
Star by Star*

However, I strongly urge that you read the series in order. As they all build on one another. A lot of stuff happens between Vector Prime and Balance Point that will leave you saying "what the..." :eek: if you don't read these in order.

Hope this helps

OC47150
11-08-2001, 02:43 PM
Yes it does. I will be visiting the library or Waldenbooks soon and get caught up. Might turn anti-social on Thanksgiving and stick my nose in a book!

El Chuxter
11-08-2001, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by preacher
Actually, none of the NJO are side-stories per say. If you mean books where supporting characters are the protagonists instead of the old school heroes i.e luke, leia, han, chewie (oops hehe forgot chewie croaked...force of habit) then you will want to stick with the books that were hardbound first.

Han's the main character in Hero's Trial and Jedi Eclipse. ;)

I'd recommend reading Rogue Planet at some point as well. It's the earliest appearance (chronology-wise, not release-wise) of the Yuuzhan Vong. Nom Anor also appears in one of the Crimson Empire series of comics (I haven't read them, so I don't know which).

Also recommended are the Chewbacca comic book (tales from his past with a frame narrative about C-3PO and R2-D2 gathering stories for his eulogy) and The Essential Guide to Alien Species. They both have pics of Vong warriors, as does the website The Yuuzhan Vong Revealed! (http://fan.starwars.com/elchuxter/files/vong.htm)

OC47150
11-08-2001, 03:28 PM
I've read Rogue Planet and the Chewbacca comic storyline.

I was on a huge sci-fi kick earlier this year. Read four of the William Shatner Tek series books in a row, a couple of the Rogue Squadron books and book one of the Black Fleet Crisis series. I'm going to start either the Bacta War book or part two of the Black Fleet Crisis series next. That should keep me busy through the holidays.

The one Darth Maul book is coming out in paperback real soon. Can't wait for that!

THE Slayer
11-08-2001, 04:03 PM
I too recomend NJO books, but only in order otherwise you're left with a big '?' across your face.

Vergere may have beat Tsavong Lah at dejarik but she also taught him how to play that game, which he imployed 'a dajarik move' to take coruscant. And that's never fun.

preacher
11-08-2001, 04:07 PM
The following website:

http://fan.starwars.com/NomAnor/NomAnor.html

has an excellent history excerpt about the Yuuzhan Vong. It mentions that the Yuuzhan Vong were indeed the attackers of the Rogue Planet (although in the actual book they are never identified as the invaders). I don't know where the author of the website gets the information i.e. whether this is fan fiction or if he has someone on the inside of Del Rey that has this outline. The events and explainations prior to NJO make sense though.

The comic where Nom Anor appears is Crismson Empire II. Though his role in that story is pretty weak.

I think its pretty amazing how the Yuuzhan Vong have, in less than a year been accepted as part of the popular star wars culture. If you do a search for New Jedi Order using hotbot or similar search engine there are about 2500 websites. A year ago I could count on one hand the number of websites. We are about at the halfway point of the NJO epoch. I got a feeling, if Star by Star is of any indication, we have a lot more surprises in store. But I wouldn't expect anything less in as complicated a universe as Star Wars.

THE Slayer
11-08-2001, 04:18 PM
So what are some of your (anyone) predictions of future corpses?? It's quit clear that this being that half way point and the death of several major characters already. Who's next?
Mara Jade? Leia? Lando?
I'm guessing that any of the characters that were actually in the movies, luke han leia lando, arn't going to killed off.
But how about Luke's little tike, or C-3po, R2-d2?

predictions people!!

preacher
11-08-2001, 05:24 PM
I think Luke has to die for two reasons:

1) He has become such a lame duck. He was at his best in Dark Empire, when he confronted a Palpatine, sacrificed himself to the dark side to understand why Vader chose that path, force choked his best friend Han, and fought his own sister and still managed to come back to the light. What has he done lately....not a whole lot. Which is the whole problem. I havn't finished Star by Star, but I think its safe to say he will still preach the same dumb P.C mantra and do squat. He's become more a politician than a warrior the last few books.

2) By Luke dying it would prove that the Jedi defectors have it right and those that think the way Jacen thinks will act. That in some instances you must teeter between darkness and light for the benefit of everyone. Luke would become a martre and that would wake everyone up to the threat the Yuuzhan Vong really are.

I think 3PO is going to get scrapped too. R2 won't. He is a tough nut to crack.

Dferguson
11-08-2001, 10:50 PM
that would be awful if they did indeed kill Luke
but heres hoping they dont kill no OT charactors oh besides Chewie that would kinda get lame after awhile

THE Slayer
11-09-2001, 04:40 PM
My point exactly. They need to stop killing people unless there is a reason.. I was ook with chewie because it set everything in motion. and propelled a lot of what the characters are feeling and what they do in certain situations,, this is like what two years after 'Vector Prime' and Han is just now getting over chewie. And unfortunatly Anakin never got over chewie. But to kill someone for the sake of body count is stupid. Especially since the story so far doesn't really have focus on one character, but balances between a lot of characters. and It's been clear so far that luke is not the focus of this story considering the how very little of each book he's in.

El Chuxter
11-09-2001, 05:44 PM
Like I said, Anakin's death is a letdown, especially after the Conquest/Rebirth saga focused on him. Ikirit's prophecy must've been in vain.

Body count thus far, out of people we'd already known and loved (feel free to add anyone I've forgotten):
Chewbacca
Anakin Solo
Ikrit
Lyric
Dorsk 82
Borssk Fey'la
Ithor
Nal Hutta
Nar Shaada
Dathomir
Rodia
The Hapan Fleet
The Massassi/Jedi Temple
The Imperial Palace
The New Republic

Tycho
11-10-2001, 08:01 AM
OK, maybe post by the ignorant, but I'm reading the latest Jedi Apprentice first, so I keep up to date, then I'll delve into a huge book like this (and I'm glad that it is - so I can spend days in the Star Wars universe).

[Unfortunately, if it is really well-written, that plan backfires. I read Conquest, my favorite NJO book since Stackpole's, in probably one sitting. I remember I forgot to eat or sleep, and it consumed an entire weekend. I don't even remember how I got back to my apartment from Yavin, but I digress...]

So hopefully, I'll be spending several days or a week enjoying this bit by bit.

Anyway, I've read the spoilers like I always do. If Anakin's body is wrapped in a Vong pod of living flesh or something, of course his mother and everyone felt him suddenly cut off from the Force. Remember Iktrit's prophesy? And remember he really was a Jedi Master, not some Dark Lord's son who thinks he is...

Anakin will heal inside this pod, and come back from the dead with more insight to how the Vong are absent in the Force. Anakin might even be absent, or it changes the way he uses the Force (maybe he's blinded to only the Dark Side?)

Again, I didn't read how he was killed, but it makes more sense to get rid of Han, Luke, Mara, Leia, et. all because if they kill off the entire expanded universe, what will we have? Star Wars could only continue with Han pushing 59 and Luke and Leia coming up on 48, with Mara 46?

The Star Wars generation (majority) will be hitting late 20's early 30's. Our heroes will be about as fascinating as Captain Picard WITHOUT Riker and Worf, for comparison.

Rollo Tomassi
11-10-2001, 12:05 PM
...or Picard WITH Riker and Worf for that matter.;) :p

It's the nature of Star Wars to kill off the previous generation of heroes so the new breed can shine. Don't believe me? Let's go to the tape...


Qui-Gon:dead:
Obi-Wan:dead:
Padme:dead:
Anakin:dead:
Mace Windu:dead:
Yoda:dead:

Shall I continue?

So by the end of this series we'll have

Han Solo:dead:
Leia:dead:
Luke:dead:
Chewbacca, already:dead:
Wedge:dead:
Lando:dead:

Leaving us with
Jacen
Jaina
Ben
Tahiri
Anakin (back from the dead)

That's the way it's gotta be...

Tycho
11-10-2001, 12:47 PM
Maybe Luke and Mara will have more kids, still.

It's too early to tell, unless they die suddenly.

Let's see, Luke was 18 in ANH and we are 25 years later when this thing started, but the war's been going on for about 2 years now? So that's 27+18, so Luke (and Leia) are 45, and Mara is supposed to be 2 years younger than Luke? So she's having a kid at age 43?

Ben will go Dark Side because all the kids at school will make fun of Mara and ask him if that's his Grandma.

Think about it, when Ben is at his high school graduation, mom will be 61 years old?

Mara has got to be a little younger, don't you think? If she's 10 years younger than Luke, she'd be 35. That's ok, Han and Leia are 11 years apart.

So when Ben graduates high school, mom would be 53. A little on the older side, but that's ok. Mom had places to see, people to kill, all before she could raise a family.

At 35, would this be Mara's only child? Maybe. However, any others would have to come rather quickly from now.

And in conclusion, since Luke's not getting busy fighting the Vong, he's got to be doing something! If Mara looks like Shannon Baksa (she's presently 31 years old I think), then I don't blame Luke if he doesn't want to get out of bed every morning to go fight with a bunch of tattooed freaks and play nursemaid to Kyp Durron.

(don't get me wrong, I like Kyp - just a joke. Actually I think he's way cool, sort of walking the line on the Dark Side. Makes for an interesting character).

But any way, one more time computation: If Mara is 35 presently, she was 8 during ANH (27 years ago). That doesn't make sense, as Vader knew of her and saw her as nearly an adult, or at least older teenager. ROTJ (Vader and Palpatine's death) takes place 4 years after ANH, so then Mara would be 13. And dancing in Jabba's palace? Then 5 years after that, when Luke first meets her, she is barely legal, and he's 27 (in HTTE).

No, Mara must be 43 and having babies. Going to play Mom at Ben's graduation when she's 61.

It all makes sense now: if the Vong invade, they'll destroy Ben's schoolhouse and he'll never go through the jokes and torment from the other kids, and thus never turn to the Dark Side.

So there you have it. Anyone else got any data on Mara's real age?

JediKnightBai
11-10-2001, 09:56 PM
I have this feeling that Luke is gonna be "one with the Force" very soon..leaving some other ppl to be killed...Will Anakin return..I think so,as a Darksider,not as a Jedi

I'm still sad Anakin died...give us some time between major deaths,jesh!

El Chuxter
11-12-2001, 12:10 PM
I doubt Luke will die. Lucas is still in charge, provided he's still paying attention.

Tycho, I don't think Anakin could've survived what happened. If he did, he fooled everyone--the Yuuzhan Vong, Jaina, Tahiri, Luke, Mara, Leia, Jacen, Lowie, Tenel Ka. There's also the problem of the body. :cry:

Obi-Don
11-13-2001, 09:23 AM
I'm not happy with the character killing. As for me this thing with the Vong has gone on to long.I think is time for Luke to take control of things and do some real butt kicking.I have a feeling about Anakin's death.He might be back because he was starting to figure out and was finding a way to see the Vong with the force.That thing he repaired his lightsaber with.I could be wrong and will have to read the book.But I'm really disapointed with Luke in the series.His father was the most powerful Jedi/Sith Lord and surely some of that has past to him.If not he could not have done the things he has done.As I said before,Its time for him to start kicking butt. So HEY Luke,Ben was an Old man but still had enough Balls to take on Vader.Where are yours?Get up off your ***** and start doing something. :mad: :frus: :frus: :frus:

Sidiously Darth
11-15-2001, 04:24 PM
Well, I finished the book last night. I think it's been the best so far.

I'm not going to speculate on anything. I think it is pointless. None of us are mind readers or writing the next book(s). Just be prepared for anything.

BTW, I wonder if Wedge made it out alive?:confused:

El Chuxter
11-15-2001, 04:32 PM
The next book's about Jaina, then at least one book after that focuses on Wedge, so I think he's okay.

Bel Iblis, Riekkan, Tycho, etc, though, I'm not so sure about. :cry:

Rollo Tomassi
11-15-2001, 06:12 PM
I just got to the chapter where Anakin eats it. I can only assume from your posts that the worst is yet to come.:eek: :cry:

Sidiously Darth
11-15-2001, 07:30 PM
:sur: I can't believe you refered to a great jedi's demise like that.

Actually, I think he got shafted!:evil:

sith_killer_99
11-16-2001, 08:44 PM
Well, I think it SUC*s that Anakin.....and a bunch of other young JEDI die horribly for a relatively LAME reason!

I don't think Anakin will be back. The books get pretty heavy into distinguishing the difference between being "absent in the force" and being "dead". Leia and the others were pretty sure he was DEAD.:frus:

Why build up a character sooooo much and then let him go out like a punk?

Vong take Coruscant? Almost as unbelieveable as Anakin's death!

Verger? Who knows? Jedi Trader IMO!:mad:

Can't wait 'til the next book!?!?!?!?:D

THE Slayer
11-21-2001, 08:11 PM
I think Luke should die too,, All the characters from t he movies are a little too old to be running around saving the galaxy when there's a bunch of high strung force strong youngster running around in the background. Unless all the kids die too.. Then,, well lets just say I'd hate to have to write the next star wars book.

Bel-Cam Jos
01-04-2002, 12:15 AM
One of the worst EU books so far! Reasons?
- 606 pages is too long
- Details are too miniscule and technical
- Way too many die
- Overly dramatic

Boooo!!! Did I also mention I don't like the New Jedi Order series? :(

Obi-Don
01-04-2002, 12:35 AM
Is this book out in paperback yet? I can't seem to find it anywhere in this town. Not like I expected to. Seems like if there is something you are looking for,the stores work really hard in keeping it out of thier stores.

Bel-Cam Jos
01-04-2002, 12:26 PM
It took me until a week ago to get enough time to read this manifesto. All those airport delays are great when you're trying to read a 600+ page book! ;) I check out the newest hardbacks from my local library, and then buy the paperback version months later. Cloak of Deception isn't even out in paperback, Obi-Don, and it was released before S by S.

Sidiously Darth
01-04-2002, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Bel-Cam Jos
It took me until a week ago to get enough time to read this manifesto.

Sounds like the ranting of a pitiful jedi!:D

This book was no match for the sith!!!:crazed:

Bel-Cam Jos
01-04-2002, 06:41 PM
"Can the Dark Side make you read better?"
"No. Faster; more seductive."
"More seductive reading? Hmm..." :rolleyes:

So this is supposed to be the midway book in the NJO series, eh? It's almost as if Lucasfilm wants to kill off the entire Star Wars line! Booo!!! :Pirate: :Pirate:

Tycho
01-04-2002, 11:40 PM
Star by Star was awesome!

Anakin killed!
Coruscant in flames, the Chief of State dead!
Jaina transformed by the Dark Side!
Jacen a tortured prisoner of Tsavong Lah!
The Skywalkers' son almost lost!
Han, Leia, and Luke homesless and living the fight on the run again!

How could you complain - it's as powerful as Empire Strikes Back - and it's not 21 years old, so in my book that makes it BETTER!

Finally, you're complaining about a 600 page book?! The longer the better, if it's as action packed and the plot carries it like Star By Star!

The more time I can spend escaping into the Star Wars universe on a new adventure, the happier I am to not have to resort back to my OLD, dusty video cassettes (well actually they are polished regularly and have their own display cabinet, but anyway.... you know what I meant!)

sith_killer_99
01-07-2002, 09:39 PM
I know what you mean Tycho.

I too keep my Star Wars videos polished and on display behind a class cabinet door.:D

Except for the EP1 video. I threw that old thing out the day I bought the DVD.;)

As for the book, I agree, 600+ pages was not too long. It carried very well.:)

As powerful as Empire Strikes Back.........BLASPHAME!!!!:mad:

preacher
01-07-2002, 10:27 PM
Interesting that Star by Star the halfway point in the series would be the dramatic lowest point Luke and gang would reach. The storytelling style is consistent with the way Lucas told the OT. ANH being the introduction to the characters, ESB being the low point, and ROTJ being the triumph of good over evil. If NJO is following the same line of storytelling as the OT maybe Luke and them will start whoopin butt in the next half of the NJO story arc.

Or it will follow the same doomed destiny that the prequels are taking.

Sidiously Darth
01-08-2002, 11:26 PM
Or it will follow the same doomed destiny that the prequels are taking.

If this is so, will the Sith return?:eek:

preacher
01-12-2002, 06:32 PM
Good point SD! Where are all the Sith that existed before the "Only two there are" rule? I'm getting a little bit of the topic of NJO here, but if we are to believe the "Jedi vs Sith" story arc that Dark Horse put out last year, something called a mind bomb managed to wipe out the entire Sith army. And at that point Bane and Rain were master and apprentice and began the "Only two" sith doctrine. I didn't like that story much.

I still think there are Sith that are hiding out like the Jedi did. I've always thought for awhile now the only thing that our heroes need now is for the Vong to find a planet where there Sith that are sleeping and stir them awake. The Vong, Kyp Durron and Jaina's dark sider tendencies, and bona fide Sith running around will really screw things up horribly.

I still think that a good way to tie the OT, prequels, and NJO together is if the entire reason Palpatine originally desired power was that he knew the Vong were on there way and with whatever means necessary he sought to build a massive empire to combat the approaching invaders. It would give Palpatine a bit more depth that I've always thought was lacking. I've said in the past I enjoy Anime because even the most vile villain has a cause and effect subtext that defines why he/she chose the path of evil or good. Even the Vong, as evil as they are from our point of view, view everyone else as evil because they avoid pain. Now that holds my interest more than "Oh gee I'm just a power hungry politician so I kill". -Yawn- :o

Sidiously Darth
01-12-2002, 07:22 PM
I agree that it would be nice if NJO eventually tied into the original Trilogy. Giving the Empire a whole new depth and not just that of a power hungry Emperor.

I also think a few real Siths would make things interesting. Not just some dark jedi or witches as in Star By Star. Although I did like the Force Web one of them used to dice up a Vong.

Anyway, I guess we'll wait and see!:D

Bel-Cam Jos
01-13-2002, 12:21 AM
So with that logic, Palpatine would be seen as a benevolent ruler trying to protect his subjects? Hmm. Interesting. And since the Yuuzhan Vong didn't arrive en masse while he was in power, he takes it out on other aliens instead? Hmm. Also interesting.

preacher
01-13-2002, 08:00 PM
Way I see it, if Palpatine learned of the Vong and had heard of the extinct Sith ways he probably would have thought that he would be doing the galaxy a service by trying to locate and learn Sith magic. If the Jedi were at war with them, the Sith had to have very similar power to the Jedi. Regardless what his intent was, once he got his taste of darkside power it corrupted him. He was controlled by the darkside. And so he inflicted tremendous harm to the people in the proces of trying to protect them. Then his agenda would have strayed from one of deliverance of the people from potential harm by the Vong, to the sole gain of power.

What is the saying? "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Thrawn
01-13-2002, 09:07 PM
To chuxter: I think the only Jedi you missed was Lusa - the half centaur. I guess you aren't counting other non main characters like the Barabel?

What no one has touched on is who will lead the New Republic now that the slimebag Borsk is gone? Whatever happened to that
winged guy who was chief of state after Leia? He came out of nowhere and disappeared as fast...?

Seems like Leia will be the only one people would trust to be Chief of State again. Bad for her, good for the Republic.

Anyone else notice the Yevetha seem a lot like the Vong? Even has a Y and a V in there.

Y - Nil Spaar
YV - Nom Anor
Very similar....

Sidiously Darth
01-15-2002, 02:21 PM
Interesting point, Thrawn. Or it's possible someone in the continuity department likes the Y-V combo.:D I think I'll look into this a little more.

El Chuxter
01-15-2002, 02:44 PM
Actually, Thrawn, I didn't have the book with me when I wrote that and just rattled off the names I remembered. :D

Interesting point about the Yevetha. I hadn't thought of that, but they seem very similar. I know the illustrations of them aren't all that alike, but--if memory serves--the descriptions of them are quite similar. And it's not like the Essential Guides always stick to the descriptions when coming up with pictures. And how many stinking ways are there to draw a Noghri?

And why is it that the New Republic could repel the Ssi Ruuk, the Yevetha, and other invaders from within the galaxy, but a civilization from outside the galaxy causes so much trouble?

Sidiously Darth
01-16-2002, 02:30 AM
Why? Because they are from outside the galaxy. What more do you need?

BTW, what's up with Chiss(?) and Imperial Remenant?

El Chuxter
01-16-2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Sidiously Darth
Why? Because they are from outside the galaxy. What more do you need?

Yes, but think of the logistics required to bring an invasion army into a galaxy! While it's true that just about the entire Vong civilization seems to be in the galaxy now, it took them quite a while to trickle in.

At the first sign of obviously antagonistic invaders--I mean, they destroyed Dubrillion and Serndipal (not to mention Chewie)!--the New Republic should've fortified borders, increased military spending, etc. They might not've seen 'em coming to start with, unlike some of the other alien menaces, but they had a slight advantage thereafter in that the YV didn't have their entire force already in the galaxy. A few worldships here and there could be prevented from entering.

But now they've taken over 1/3 of the galaxy! I mean, the New Republic overthrew the Empire--are they really that incompetent?


BTW, what's up with Chiss(?) and Imperial Remenant?

That's what I wanna know. :)

Tycho
01-16-2002, 12:48 PM
It's the same old debate about whether a republic can function as efficiently as a dictatorship.

Leia advocated doing just what you suggested - only about 1,000 times.

Borssk Fey'la and others took it as an attempt to reclaim her power she lost when she left office. They took the Vong as a joke to be dismissed versus choices about spending their money in the Bothan System, amongst other special interest places.

They mistakenly believed they could bargain with the Vong as well - they didn't understand they were religious fanatics who wanted things absolutely their way.

As the Jedi became involved, the Republic mistrusted the Jedi. A lot of the prejudice Palpatine had introduced against them might've still existed. Luke and Leia's ties to the old government, Darth Vader's government, are well known (paternal ties, not ideological ones). So instead of taking Leia's advice for action at face value, the Senate saw it as an attempt to strengthen the Jedi's power without accountability, (Leia advocating this because Luke was her brother and she was a half-trained Jedi herself) - and an attempt to restore herself to power.

She was right and they wouldn't listen.

The Republic Military was never that incompetant (these are the veterans of the Rebel Alliance and those that they trained), but the reaction-time of a Republic trying to react to votes and 'political sensitivities is that darn slow.

Not to mention that some prejudice still exists against the Outer Rim Territories because 1) they are a lot of non-humans and 2) they are considered mostly 'hicks' that live out there - so the O.R.T. were conceeded before the Vong ever arrived.

Thrawn
01-16-2002, 10:44 PM
Well, didn't the Chiss send it some fighter pilots? I seem to remember a squadron come in. Was it at Duros?

I also remember Palleon saying something about not having enough ships to help out and that they would defend their own space.

Vong were able to conquer because they used slaves and are able to grow their military instead of having to build it.