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vulcantouch
12-10-2002, 12:26 AM
(since haggie let kitty outta the baggie in "just found" anyway ;) )
as many of this forum's vets know, a few months back a number of us were offered the opportunity to obtain galoob 3-d Prototypes of a wide range of scifi mm ships. these handmade protos were an intermediate step between 2-d concept and production, and were used for almost all package photography. only four of each ship were made, which means a one in four chance that any one proto was the one shown on packages the world over :)
because the trafficking of these protos could be considered illicit, this offer was circulated via email only among trusted regulars of this forum. (even though hasbro's long shown zero interest in all things mm, and this kind of trafficking among collectors is hardly unprecedented, hasbro Could claim that these are technically Their property and go after both buyer and seller. never mind that hasbro would have no use for or interest in them and they were made long before hasbro entered galoob's picture :p)
but now that the deals've been done and they're starting to arrive, there ain't nuthin hasbin can do about us Discussin em here, right? :evil: after all these represent a view unto mms most collectors never see, so it'd be a shame not to share reports with our fellow collectors:
b'jr (who's never been a forummer but who's long been known to many of you, mainly via my representation of his trading interests here) axed me to get him a b5 earth force one, which just arrived today. i own a pretty good copy of the production version but next to this proto it looks like a blurry picture of itself :crazed: the proto's certainly sharp enough to be a revelation- almost an unwelcome one, cuz most production versions can't compare. the proto outclasses production ones the same way real hasbro figures outclass crude hongkong knockoffs of same.
the ef1 proto is scaled up about 1/9 larger than the production version, a barely-noticeable difference when in the midst of massmade ships. it is constructed from 7 or 8 separate pieces rather than the massmade's more streamlined 3-piece assembly. (there seems to be a separate piece connecting the forward pod and the main hull. also, all four fins are molded & mounted separately- only the bottom fin's gluejoint is sloppy, while the top fin is unglued, but fits snugly). the additional parts do not account for significant additionally-enabled detail.
the ship's earth logo- a sea-blue dot on the massmade- is here outlined by a thin, darker blue-green circle, which is in turn outlined by a thin yellow circle. (and i could just be imagining it, but a very slight difference in sea-blue paint shades within the dot could in fact depict earth's continents.) the ef1 proto's paint colors match the production run exactly, but they're much more precisely applied. consistent matte finish and perfect thickness but no brush strokes, so i'm guessing stenciled airbrushing as used on the massmades, only painstakingly done by hand. as for the depiction of the 8-pointed star on top of the forward pod, i prefer my massmade's version cuz it just pops more :cool:
while the detailing never gets more minute than that featured on production versions of, say, an ssd or med frigate, there is more of it and it sits deeper. for example, the engines have rear thrust holes while the mass version does not. and even when a detail is also present on the mass version the clarity of its depiction here is often illuminating; that is, past a certain size often one couldn't be certain whether a vagary on the mass version is an intentional detail or a mere imperfection. this is most apparent in the forward pod's notches :)
overall design matches the mass version except for the main hull's frontal outer ring of 15 evenly-spaced "spokes". in the proto, the "odd-numbered" spoke points straight down, while the mass version has it straight up. also, the 15 outer "grid" or "window" areas (separated by the prev-mentioned 15 spokes) are about 40% more minute and arranged not in the mass version's radial "sunburst pixel" pattern but instead share a uniform-square orientation in which almost all grids are set ~43 degrees off the ship's centerline. this suggests multilayer composition of the hull's surface using prepatterned pieces, rather than the "lathe (latitude) & spoke (longitude)" etching of the mass version.
a few of us are participating in an "borrowing tour" in which we will send our protos to trusted others here so that they may also view them in person for a few weeks. they will then send them on to the next person etc. until finally returned to their owners. so you may see multiple reports on the same proto from different people here :)
to anyone interested who missed out on this offer due to its necessarily discreet handling i can only say: 1) maybe you shoulda been makin more of a mark on this here forum all this time; non-lurking has its priviliges ;) and 2) who knows, if you indicate your interest on this thread maybe you'll be contacted by the supplier's intermediary (whose anonymity we will maintain here on the forum just to be safe) and you could still get proto(s) of your own? if so, maybe you'd like to participate in our exchange tour :D
so who else got a proto? tell us all aboot it :D
vt

good shot jansen
12-10-2002, 06:48 AM
i received the caretakers array prototype from the initial star trek voyager episode.

the clarity of the detailing is nothing short of amazing. as vt indicated above with regards to E1, after looking at the prototype, the mass produced version appears to be all blurry and fuzzy in comparison.

each engraved line of detail reads clear and true. the 1st thing that pops out at you, are the spiraling white lights at the bottom of the array. on the the mass produced version, you can barely see them. they are quite small, with almost no relief seperation from the main body of the ship. to be honest, i don't think i ever noticed them on the mass produced version til i got the prototype. when i 1st looked at the prototype, my reaction was, "what are these spirling white lights?, and are they even on the mass produced version?". well they are, but without the prototype as aroad map, i'm not sure i even would have looked for them!

the ends of the spoke arms of the array, are all engraved, clearly showing relief portions of the ships outer hull design. each element is clear, and well defined. on the mass produced version, the detail at the end of the arms is mearly painted on like some intergalactic logo.

the plastic is of a hard variety, unlike the mass produced version which is rubbery and pliable.

i have already forwarded the array on it's whirlwind prototour, vt should be receiving it any day now, and i'm sure that he'll give us all a review worthy of this wonderful prototype :)

Glitch
12-10-2002, 12:33 PM
WOW! These things sound GREAT! :)

VT, About the glue on that fin. It is possible that it was broken on the showroom floor of the NY Toy Fair and had to be "repaired" by someone totally unqualified to do so - say, a salesman. These things would NEVER leave Galco....errr....the den of the prototype fairy like that.

One distinctions that really makes the hard copy prototype stand out from the production piece, other than the detail, paint, and resin, is the size. They are always bigger than the production MM's.

George Costanza is not the only one that suffers from shrinkage.

Thanks for the detailed reviews guys!

Pics are tough since it is so hard to pick up just how detailed these things are.

JediTricks
12-10-2002, 04:41 PM
Glitch, is the size difference due to the production plastic contracting or just shrinking as it cools once it's been pulled from its mold?

BTW, that's some incredible detail on that MM proto pic!

Glitch
12-10-2002, 06:28 PM
That, and there is also a bit of shrinkage that occurs in the mold-making process.

Thanks for the comment on the pic. Unfortunately, it is so much more detailed in person. You just don't get a sense as to how small the detail is from that image. It almost looks like it's AF scale.

Let's try this one:

P.S. Sorry for the low res pics. I have to blow them up just to see the detail, and....

LTBasker
12-10-2002, 07:06 PM
THAT'S A MICRO-MACHINE STAR DESTROYER?!?!?! It looks superior to the Collector Fleet one!!! Heck, it looks like a film production model. :eek:

vulcantouch
12-10-2002, 10:53 PM
-yeah, don't they? try not to be Jealous :D

"there is also a bit of shrinkage that occurs"
-hey that's what She sed lazt night- nDOISHHHH! :evil:

"possible that it was broken on the showroom floor"
-Whaaa?!? you mean maybe we wuz sold Damaged Goods?!? :frus: ;) now that you mention it, the port & starboard fin gluins ain't lookin so hot neither. i might just hafta hava tawk w/mister intermediary ;) hey Mister Intermediary, if you're out there readin this tell the supplier he can make it up to us by makin a jemhadar available, cuz after seeing the ef1 i'm Real curious to see that one :D
haven't been able to get holda b'jr yet (mebbe his girlfriend threw him in jail Again :eek: hmph, not like She's any saint herself :rolleyes: ) so since its standhole doesn't quite fit a standard teardrop stand i'm perching it atop r2b1's power harness, whose colors even match ef1 purty good :happy:
forgot to mention a few things in above report:
proto ef1's fins are ~30% thinner than massmade version. also, all four rear exhaust vanes are of equal length, unlike the massmade in which the bottom is longer (much like the x-wing's uneven rear engines, no doubt to comply with safety regs; can't let them be used as upright roadspikes now can we?? :rolleyes: ). also, at this level of clarity the handcrafted sculpting of details becomes apparent in places, an interesting contrast to the magically machined/stereolithographed impression the massmades usually give. also, i did finda few telltale brushstrokes on some of the narrower color strips. finally, there is of course no galoob or ptn logo on the main hull's back.

gsj: "i'm sure that he'll give us all a review worthy of this wonderful prototype"
-yeah, i'm Sure ;) speakin of, i think it'd be hella easier & more efficient if we plan & keep track right here whose touring protos are going where and when. i'll start off: since gsj's sending array and mib mms for jt, if jt wishes i'll forward him mib mms along with array, ef1 and my protoklae (when it arrives that is (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=203819#post203819)), i imagine all would be of interest to him :) then he can send the protos along to the next person :) (these plans can be elaborated on as more people sign on for the tour :) )
array proto should prove especially interesting since the only package photos we ever got of it were really shrunk (there was an image on galoob.com but not any more :( ). of course, same goes for jemhadar (hint HINT) ;), since its larger pic on back of le set 3 was actually of production version, since protophoto was accidentally of jemhadar's rear and they apparently wanted to correct that (same story re orange/brown bajfighter diff)-
vt

darthcarlos
12-11-2002, 12:34 AM
VT

IMPRESSIVE! WOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THESE PROTOTYPES EXISTED! THAT DESTROYER LOOKS SWEET. LET'S SEE MORE PICTURES.

DARTH CARLOS

good shot jansen
12-11-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by vulcantouch
(when it arrives that is (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=203819#post203819))

floridiot? actually prefer the derogatory term floron. it's got more of a stylin' flair.:kiss:

as i'm the 1st to send a proto on tour, and as how i sent mine to vt, i recommend that anyone who wishes to participate, forward their protos on to vt, and once he receives all that will be tourin', he then forwards them en mass on to the next stop, and so on, and so on, that way, we'll be keepin this select group together in a single bundle to be viewed as a whole collective.

makes it easier to track that way (imho)

vulcantouch
12-11-2002, 12:44 PM
specifically of the side trenches & underside; but since i don't have the isd proto you're axin the wrong feller ;)
btw dc, if you think you might wanna acquire a proto of your own you might wanna say so here :)

gsj: "as i'm not welcome there"
-whoa, i didn't say nuthin bout you not bein Welcome, i just sed you weren't Allowed. the difference being, bumptious gatecrashers are often just what gooses a party into that most welcome "je'ne'quaw'saw" :cool:

"makes it easier to track that way"
-yup, the only drawback is that whoever's the last to view em has to disperse em to multiple owners at the end :p but it's still simpler than 1 ship per parcel eh?
any protos in my possession by 1/2/3 will be papparazzoed to the best of our ability on that date's mm tea (r2: does yer cam take a microzoom lens?) :D
vt

JediTricks
12-11-2002, 04:32 PM
Another great pic Glitch. Would you happen to have a production version of the ISD? I'd love to see a side-by-side shot of the proto and prodo... is that even a word? ;)

As for being a stop on the tour, yeah I'd love to see these things in person. Just one point VT, I'll need instructions on insurance and proper repackaging.

jeddah
12-11-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by vulcantouch
"je'ne'quaw'saw"


je ne sais quoi!

jeddah

darthcarlos
12-11-2002, 11:51 PM
VT

I would definitley love to have a proto if they're available! Aren't these expensive pieces? To have MM Protos included in a micro collection would make it an ultimate MM collection. YUP YUP!!


"Think Big, play small"....MICRO MACHINES


Darth Carlos

vulcantouch
12-12-2002, 12:26 AM
jt: "prodo... is that even a word?"
-it's a pronoun actually, from LOTR right? :crazed:

jt: "I'll need instructions on insurance and proper repackaging"
-while i can't speak for gsj or anyone else, personally i'd say the old k.i.s.s. rule oughta do just fine ;) the box & filler i'll use work fine for multiple legs, and my gut tells me insurance's unnecessary. in fact i'm confident enough in that judgment that if you wish i'll send along my personal prodo copies of ef1 and array since, as i recall, you've never seen Those in person either, right? this way you'll have a basis for comparison. all i care is that my stuff'd get back to me in time for their fashionable seasons (~april for ef1, ~may for klaestron and ~june for array) :cool:

dc: "Aren't these expensive pieces?"
-since "expensive" can be such a relative term, i would never presume to make that call for another ;) at any rate, seeing as how you've been among us here for awhile & have shown your trustworthiness & true collector's soul (via your trades w/me & others), now that you've expressed interest i wouldn't be surprised if you were shortly contacted by the mm world's "keyser soze" (Usual Suspects (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=202230#post202230)) with terms for acquiring any protos that may be left :) let us know how it goes, & if you don't hear from anyone in the next few days :)
vt

good shot jansen
12-12-2002, 06:53 AM
postal insurance is the tool of unscrupulous, butt ugly bottom feeders who prolly sent the the merch in questionable condition from the git go. then, in their typical han solo cry of it's not my fault, try and lay the blame on our legions of clavens who are just trying to do the admirable job of getting our box o' goodies to where they belong.

never needed it meself, and have never had a complaint niether.

the mm proto's were initially shipped out from the supplier (at least mine was) extremely well packed. so much so, that i reused the shipping box, as well as the inner box which contained the proto prize when i shipped mine rocky mountain high bound. i'm sure a certain Venerable Tightwad appreciates my economizin' efforts.

my advice jt, after enjoying the protos, just place em back into the packaging provided, reseal, and as the great one used to say....awaaaaaaaaaaaay we go!

np: you're my greatest love (honeymooners theme song) - jackie gleason orchestra

JediTricks
12-12-2002, 08:00 PM
VT, you are correct, I haven't seen either prodo in person.

VT and GSJ, let me show you why I would not be so shy about insurance. The page speaks for itself:
www.geocities.com/jeditricks/usps

vulcantouch
12-12-2002, 11:18 PM
maybe they might if this wasn't the Hundredth time you've trotted em out ;) besides, if these are lost or damaged all insurance'd do is give us our $$ back, it's not like we'd ever be able to Replace em. gsj & i couldn't stop you from insuring em when You send em off, but you certainly aren't bein axed to :greedy: sounds like you'd like to view prodo array & ef1 so ok, those'll be in there too, make sure they get a lil calif sun :cool:
just now went thru fanclub catalogs you sed you wanted, to figure out how i'll pack such differently-shaped items in same parcel; hmm, maybe i'll tape pkgs together :crazed: i have a holographic picard postcard someone musta gave me and am wondering who'd want it: jt, or swaffy & son who i hear are gettin into tng of late? this is no time to be selfless; if you want it say so, Somebody better take it off mah hanz :)
btw gsj: you didn't need insurance re your latest shipment neither :D
vt

good shot jansen
12-13-2002, 07:50 AM
jt: - ironically, I did indeed pay $1.10 extra for priority mail insurance

looks like you got whacha' paid fer:p

i'm jes pullin' your leg. large packages do seem to be more susceptible to damage. when packing these things up, the most important thing to remember, is that the parcels will be subjected to running though different types of sorting machines. any loose corners, or or pieces of tape which have not been secured properly before shipping, will be subject to gettin' wrenched while being processed mechanically, thus resulting in packages being shredded open. (keep all arms and legs inside the car while the ride is in motion)

but a good lessen to be learned from your experience, is to wrap the item in a plastic bag before placing it into the box. you did indicate that the item arrived unscathed due to this 2nd hull packaging, even though the shipping box went through hell and back.

JediTricks
12-13-2002, 05:57 PM
VT, the sunshine is up to mother nature, but I'll see what I can do. :D As for the post card, I'll pass, but thanks for the offer.

Insurance is often a pain to purchase at my PO, so I'll let it lie since these aren't my property. I will of course repack them in the same packaging as I receive them.

GSJ makin' excuses for the USPS, like there's any excuse for how this box was received. And no machine I know of there makes your boxes wet. :D

LTBasker
12-15-2002, 12:57 AM
Hey I got the Kazon Torpedo today. I was gonna get the HMS Bounty which the guy mistook for a Generations BoP, so then I was gonna the Array but I took too long telling that I wanted the Array out of the ones I was gonna get with the Bounty but couldn't, and to make up for the HMS Bounty ordeal he sent the Torpedo.

Unfortunately I don't have the production version to compare it to, but this is still very nicely detailed. It's so nice to have a piece of history. :D (How could you not consider Galoob part of history? ;))

vulcantouch
12-15-2002, 07:48 PM
. . .and i won't need it til ~june '03 (when its mm fash highlife'll kick back in :cool: ), so if you send proto here for viewin i'll include "prodotorp" when prototorp's sent back to you. (you'll also get to view both protos and prodos of both ef1 and array, as well as the klaestron proto :cool: ) also, if prototorp gets to me in time for 1/2/'03 local mm tea we'll photodocument it so everyone here can view pix :D
vt

good shot jansen
12-16-2002, 07:23 AM
baal! great to hear a howdy from ya! i'm with vt, let us know which proto you received, and how the devil thinks it compares with the prodo. we'd love to hear wht'cha think.

speakin' o' which, vt, when we gonna hear your observations about the array?

np: tell me what you see - the beatles

vulcantouch
12-17-2002, 11:34 AM
. . .but as dpk sneered to the parking-garage attendant in 48 Hrs who asked why he'd left his car there for two years, "i bin Bizzzy (http://forums.rebelscum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=000170)!" :evil:
under unspecialized lighting conditions and from what i consider optimal mm viewing distance (~1/2 meter), the proto array doesn't look too different from the "prodo" version: it's the same size (prolly cuz the prodo is already large compared to most prodos), the colors match, black-on-blue paintjob seems as sharp-edged, the arms & fans are of equal thickness and the Amount of surface detailing is the same in most places. the most apparent diffs are that the arms are straighter & more regularized in their deployment angles and the upper & lower axes are thinner, the latter yielding the more detached "spiral lights" gsj refers to (think weather vanes under cloud city; i envy these :kiss: ).
but when one moves in, one sees that as with the ef1 proto, detailing is etched deeper, paint is more matte and its thickness is controlled more effectively. also, the fans' black "open spaces" are sunken (which makes their lattices really pop when lit from a sharp angle) and some of the larger "islands" within the lattices feature raised detailing the prodo does not (another feature i particularly envy). the sunken spaces are painted with a highly matte black which effectively minimizes reflection & heightens the "empty space" effect :)
it looks like the sharpness of space-black application was acheived by painting the fan's surface as a whole, then wiping away & touching over any black left on the raised lattice areas. i'd also surmise the prodo didn't feature these sunken lattice spaces cuz when overlaid with tampo paint application of the black the "registration" between the two couldn't be made sufficiently precise for the massmade process to avoid canceling out the sharpness of both (as when colors don't line up on the sunday comics). but imo prodo still coulda featured proto's "raised islands" details without complicating manufacture :( other diffs:
the less coarse depiction of detail enables what amounts to an additional band of detailing around the upper axis;
the central axis' top dome is more deep-set and protrudes less than on the prodo;
the thickness edges closest to the core of the eight diagonal fans conform to the same angled tilt of the arm & rest of the fan, unlike the straight vertical molding on the prodo;
all 12 fans are more detached from their arms than on the prodo due to side notches at the point of attachment being left unfilled, which of course increases their fragility;
and as with the ef1 proto, the standhole's too small to accomodate a teardrop stand; but i am able to get it to fit semi-snug on the slightly smaller dual-flight-stick post, which is handy for making side-by-side comparisons with the prodo. standhole looks exceedingly fragile though so i wouldn't advise monkeyin with it too much :o
what baffled me most was the core torus detailing. small division lines revealed torus' 3-layer construction (top, middle and bottom; by contrast the prodo core's a single piece) but even that couldn't account for how sharp and involved the lateral detailing on the top & bottom sections was able to get. though we've seen numerous examples (such as in some figures' heads) of fabrication processes being able to bend the rules with regards to mold detail undercuts (which traditionally prevented mold extraction without damaging the part), that was always using pliable pvc, never stiffer resin. the latter's use here seemed to rule out such rule-bending, and of course it does. the only other possibility seemed too crazy to consider, but closer examination verified it: EVERY SINGLE SQUARE, RECTANGLE & COMPOUND SHAPE OF RAISED DETAILING ON THE UPPER & LOWER LATERAL CORE RINGS WAS INDIVIDUALLY CUT AND PRECISELY WELDED TO THE SURFACE :eek: this is confirmed when a raised detail covers part of a core hull's cosmetic "separation line" and the line can be seen to continue right underneath the raised detail. there's simply no other way that would occur. with ~fifty raised details on upper lateral surface and ~fifty on the lower lateral, this means that proto array was constructed from more than One Hundred separate pieces. in that alone, gsj certainly certainly got his $$ worth :greedy:
this bargain is best viewed in direct daylight or under a hundred-watt bulb less ~1 foot away. and though as indicated earlier the visual impact between array prodo and proto is comparable, would i trade my prodo for the proto? hell yeah, in a hummingbird's heartbeat :D gonna be hard to part with this one itellyouwhut.
thanx again to gsj for opportunity to view; i hurd baal got a saucer-sep ent-d proto so maybe we'll see a report on it here soon? :happy:
vt
np: gloria gaynor, "never can say goodbye"

good shot jansen
12-17-2002, 12:18 PM
great commentary! i knew you would be the proper Vivacious Titilater to give the array proto it's full due.

as fer the thanx to moi fer givin' the opportunity to view it, this should really be defered to you vt, as i would not have even partook of the proto love-in, if you hadn't put forth the brilliant idear of sending these beauts on a whirlwind tour of the faithful:)

good shot jansen
12-19-2002, 12:49 PM
we're gettin' a little long in the tooth here! when we gonna see some more reviews on the proto's?:confused:

let's keep em coming, this thread's been sinking fast of late!

speacial message to baal, you want my soul?, not until i git your dayum proto review! then we'll talk about my hereafter :eek:

Glitch
12-21-2002, 12:34 AM
That's a good observation about all the little seperate pieces added up to make the whole. On some ships, I have REALLY noticed this.

On the Millennim Falcon, for example, it looks as though it was created the same way as the ILM model - basic shape covered with hundreds of little panels, tiny model part details, and pipes.

In fact, you can even make out the difference in model parts that were used between the large Falcon (the five footer used in Star Wars) to the smaller Falcon (32" used in Empire).

These guys are scary good.

By the way, have a GREAT holiday guys and gals!

good shot jansen
01-04-2003, 12:56 PM
according to the ol' calander in the jansen household, today is saturday, january 4th. a full 48 hours past the much anticipated colorado gathering at the tattered cover. what are we heah? chopped slivers?! we want photos! we want reviews! inquiring minds wanna know! how did it go? where are the photos of proto at-st, and babylon ef-1?

lets go you two! we want the goods. :)

r2dee2
01-04-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by good shot jansen
according to the ol' calander in the jansen household, today is saturday, january 4th. a full 48 hours past the much anticipated colorado gathering at the tattered cover. what are we heah? chopped slivers?! we want photos! we want reviews! inquiring minds wanna know! how did it go? where are the photos of proto at-st, and babylon ef-1?

lets go you two! we want the goods. :)

GSJ You RIGHTFULLY deserve it!!:D I still need to practice on my macro features, but I did get a few pics which give you the idea of our VTTIME HERE (http://www.twinsuntimes.com/toyforce/vttime2003.htm)

VT as always, was an interesting companion during our journey into the sunset, whenever he could get a word in edgewise :o
:D

jeddah
01-04-2003, 05:46 PM
hi R2, I don't suppose you could mail them to me could you, as I have not been able to get to your site for a number of months now as it always crashes me bleedin dino-pc?

Many thanks if you can, a big :p if you cain't :kiss:

jeddah

r2dee2
01-04-2003, 06:37 PM
jeddah, please send me your email address and I'll send pics to you soon...going out tonight:)

Sorry my webpage sends you into a tailspin. My old one I know was slow, but VT said the twinsuntimes location has been a lot faster loading. I just don't know enough about webpages to understand why it should be causing you problems. Sorry for that:( :confused: regardless.....happy to send you any pics you want!!

good shot jansen
01-06-2003, 09:38 AM
wow! you always amaze me r2! your reporting of the latest v-tea time is wonderful!:) the proto presentation is flawless, complete with our reviews to boot!

am i to surmise from your on tour teaser regarding the at-st, that i can expect to see this little gem in person?:eek: if so, i'm sooooo glad that you changed your mind, and that you'll be letting this lil guy go on tour with it's bretheran.:)

hey guys! (particularly you ltb, as it is now common kowlege that your in poss. of the kazon torp), those of you who have received your proto's let us know what they look like, give us a detailed review right here!

r2dee2
01-06-2003, 09:48 AM
GSJ...yes you are right in your assumption that the AT-ST will be in the touring company. It now resides with VT, so whenever he is ready to send it on its next leg, I'm sure he'll let you know:)!!

I had wanted to pare down the reviews posted by you and VT, but it was just too darn difficult to take out anything....so the reviews are there with the few pics I have...in all their glory :D

I wish my proto pics could have been more clear but if anyone on the tour can take better close-ups, do please send them to me so I can add them to the proto page :cool: :)

LTBasker
01-06-2003, 10:46 AM
Oh yeah, I forget I hadn't already. :D

I don't have the production Kazon Torp to compare it to though, but I'll try and get some pics with my DigiCam later today.

It's very awesome though, highly detailed for what little detail it has.

good shot jansen
01-06-2003, 12:03 PM
can't wait to see the pix ltb!

btw, as a sorta nudge nudge into seeing if you might wanna let the torp out on tour, i would gladly furnish a prodo torp to be included on tour so's that you could do a side by side comparison:)

vulcantouch
01-09-2003, 11:14 PM
-you're kidding right? cuz even tho it was just us 2, for me it was our funnest tea yet, & that includes the conversation :happy:
proto atst critique:
like proto array, from optimal viewing distance it doesn't look so different from its prodo counterpart, aside from its slightly lighter gray. it's the same overall size and has 3-part head construction (top, back and front/sides piece which seemed to require >2-part molding, which i'd not previously observed on these resin protos).
closer inspection reveals a head narrower along its front (face), longer neck, thicker legs (perhaps to compensate for resin's greater brittleness) and slimmer hips (mainly due to thinner axial cams just inside the legs). also, the head turns (do any of your prodos do this? mine never did) and the legs rotate 360 at the hips- well the left one anyway; to illustrate potential fragility, r2 sez she had to immobilize the right one to reglue it when it busted off (good gluejob btw, i can't see any anywhere). the left one shows indications of developing a similar problem, so tour stops handle with care; attachment appears to be handled via axial endcaps somehow adhered to the hip axis (via sonic welding?) without compromising free rotation.
leg rotation is almost Too free; during our tea the slightest bump would cause the upright proto to topple. it seems the problem used to be worse though, cuz each leg was originally made with a working knee. someone glued tight the reverse kneejoints, which telltale parting lines (in a small area not covered by paint) reveal Were Originally Moveable. but again no "glueslop" is apparent :)
use of black in the paint scheme is the same except the two spots on the base's rear are hexagons, which are in turn surrounded by an outlining of gray very slightly darker than the predominant gray. either that, or it's some kind of subtle gloss overlay which only makes the shade appear slightly darker. also, the row of four dashes on the head's upper back are painted slot indentations instead of just printed on the surface.
most surface detailings matched their treatment on the prodo, except of course for their superior clarity under better-controlled paint thickness (detail along the entire lengths of both legs is particularly illuminating). the main differences are:
-the row of detailing along the "baseboard" directly aft of the top hatch is ~twice as elaborate;
-misc. details on the base's top are different-sized, -shaped and -positioned;
-the head's two eight-spoked "fan-vents" on the rear are shallower and their axes are thicker, each sporting an xtra concentric ring. (of course in my experience, on most prodos the paint is too thick for these spoked vents to even be Visible, but my prodo shows them so trust me they're there ;) )
-the twin chin guns have hollowed barrels (the prodo molding May feature this "vestigially" but i can't be sure);
-the short, thick canister-weapon (grenade launcher?) on the head's starboard is capped with a ~0.3mm-diameter detached muzzle, which implies separate fabrication & attachment to avoid the mold undercut it would otherwise require; however i can't identify any definite parting lines and so can't tell exactly where the separation occurs (i.e. if the entire weapon was glued to the side of the head or this tiny cap was simply glued to the weapon's front).
those last two diffs are the ones i most envy :) thanx again to r2 for the unique opportunity to view this :)

speaking of viewing opportunities, our prototour currently boasts the following: gsj's array (along with my prodo for comparison), bjr's ef1 (along with my prodo for comparison), r2's atst and my klaestron (if/when i get it that is). so ltb, if you'd agree to lend your proto kaztorp to the tour, in return you'll get to view Four additional protos as well as Three very rare prodos for comparison (cuz i'll lend my personal prodotorp; no need to furnish yours gsj cuz i already offered to do so in post 21 above & that'd be more efficient :) so whaddya say ltb? if interested send prototorp to me (wait till i get confirmation on klae first), & you'll be second in line after jt (route so far: i send all to jt, jt'd send to you, then you'd send to gsj, then gsj back to me & you :) )
anyone else wanna join in? all i care is that i get my ef1 back by april, my klae by may and my kaztorp by june :)
vt

darthcarlos
01-09-2003, 11:52 PM
VT

I haven't heard anything on how to aquire a proto:( I really want one.:cry:


Darth Carlos

vulcantouch
01-09-2003, 11:58 PM
geez, inattentiveness seems to be running rampant round here these days; i've left mssgs on this forum for ltb, swaffy, jdah, s43 etc that're Still awaiting replies :frus: ironically, the person who shoulda already contacted you has been fretting to me about not hearing from Someone Else! :crazed: i'll see what i can do :)
vt

Glitch
01-10-2003, 12:30 AM
Word.


....to quote a bad McDonald's commercial stereotype circa 1997.

r2dee2
01-10-2003, 09:52 AM
VT, I enjoyed or teatime conversation as well, just thought that I tended to "walk" over the conversation at times and I could see that you deferred to my gender in your gentlemanly fashion when I tended to so :) Yes, VT is a GENTLEMAN:)

Thanks for the wonderfully detailed AT-ST proto review. I will add that to my "proto" page.

VT wrote attachment appears to be handled via axial endcaps somehow adhered to the hip axis (via sonic welding?) without compromising free rotation.

You're right that the end cap is the joining focus. The
KNEE JOINT (http://www.twinsuntimes.com/toyforce/IMAGES/atstpotffinal.JPG ) shown on this potf AT-ST is where I had the "break". The end cap has a peg, which is shaped rectangularly, and this fits through a hole in the leg and attached into an underlying square hole. The attachment does not SEEM to have been glued, rather "fitted" snugly into place....tongue and groove-ish.

I love this little swivel headed proto...thank the maker I was given the chance to add another dimension to the Minuscule Micro viewing enjoyment :D !

Glitch
01-10-2003, 11:27 AM
Thing I like most about the AT-ST proto, and the AT-AT, is the absence of all the copyright, manufacturer, and date markings on the inside of the legs. You can see ALL of the original detail that was meant to be seen on the knee joints that was eventually covered by blocks of text on the production piece. Very cool.

None of the protos have these markings, but the AT-ST and AT-AT were the worst offenders on the production pieces - it was all there for everyone to see on those skinny little legs.

jeddah
01-11-2003, 05:56 PM
Well you can take your accusations of inattentiveness and modify it to blindness because I can't see any despatch here requiring my ministrations :stupid:

jeddah
p.s and you better not be referring to the Hump :p

vulcantouch
01-13-2003, 10:51 PM
". . .and I could see that you deferred to my gender"
-bah, you just seein things darlin, cuz i saw nuthin of the sort; but speakin of gender, if anything it seemed to me that on prev meetings i'd embodied the trite, milked-to-death stereotypes of them MenMars/WimminVenus books by interrupting you plenty. but i didn't notice that of myself this time; maybe cuz you'd adapted & matched my aggression w/some of your own? or maybe you just know or trust me well enough now to risk that if i tend to interrupt i certainly won't take it personal if you dish the same right back at me? ;) either way, all i know is i Loved our lively give&take :D
first neil young, now "gentleman"? boy, i guess when it rains unprecedented characterizations it pours them ;)
jdah: speaking of characterizations perhaps i should fine-tune mine of you, cuz if anything you are indeed typically as responsive as a nitro-burning jag ;) which is why i've been surprised you haven't given the unrequired but still expected reactions to my recent remarx on kate bush, new order, astromex and the Shining twins, etc :) ltb has also since responded above, but my accusation of inattentiveness remains true for others i named above :p
glit: as a galoob insider it sounds like you personally own some protos yourself; which ones, & can we see more pix? (still wanna see a ssd mm rear-view btw) :D
vt
note: i angled viewing light over atst proto at a certain angle and noticed a separation line under the top hatch, which means that It Was Molded & attached Separately :eek: can't see why they'd bother doing this, it doesn't aid the depiction of detail or anything. maybe it was part of the assembly process that made the turning head possible??

vulcantouch
01-22-2003, 10:04 PM
looks like i won't be getting that free protoklae for hookin seller up w/a big buyer, since it seems that big buyer fell thru; which means i'm ready to send protos off on their tour anytime now. so if you want in, send me your protorp asap & you'll view all right after jt gets a look. otherwise, let us know asap not to plan a stop your way :)
dc: since big buyer feel thru it's freed up a lot of the previously-reserved protos. which means seller should be contactin you real soon about availables; lmk if you don't hear-
vt

vulcantouch
01-27-2003, 11:09 PM
i & others here still await answers to prototour quextions i emailed yooz, cmon now yer holdin everything up :p :)
dc: did seller ever contact you, or is he still just whining to me in private about how people here didn't buy many protos? ;)

darthcarlos
01-28-2003, 01:30 AM
VT

I haven't been contacted yet:confused: The proto seller should be e-mailing me. right?


Thanks

Darth Carlos

LTBasker
01-29-2003, 05:29 PM
Even with all of Dooku's reasoning, Palpatine still wanted the Death Star instead of this.

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=217937

Tibor
02-10-2003, 09:01 AM
On the topic of prototypes, does anyone (Glitch?) know if there really was a Star Trek Collection #4 with ships from Insurrection, etc.? Over on the Art Asylum board there's some chatter about 100 or so of those having been made for Galoob employees, but I thought maybe some of the Micro experts here would know.

Tibor

good shot jansen
03-03-2003, 08:20 AM
how's i'm supposed to git the protos back to denver in time for april? as today is march 3rd, at the rate this proto tour is moving, by the time i receive package, i'll have just enough time to return all items to denver without even opening up the box:eek: (well i will open it to extract the array)

let's git on with it!!!!!!!!!!!:o

LTBasker
03-03-2003, 08:41 AM
I'm sorry, the proto Kaz Torp was shipped to VT today, though it should've been shipped a couple weeks ago. Sorry for the huge hold-up, I haven't had a chance for transportation to the post-office. Sorry again, I feel like a huge jerk about this, if you want the tour can pass me over or something so it can get to others faster.


Sorry..

vulcantouch
03-05-2003, 12:19 PM
ok maybe we can Finally get this road on the show? i'll look protorp over for a few hours (long enough to take notes for a critique) then fire it off tords jt who'll savor protos for a week (which in my experience is plentyotime), then he'll send to ltb who'll savor em for a week, then he'll shoot to gsj who'll savor for a week, then he'll return all but his to me in time for late-april starcon so i can get the rest back to their owners :)
gsj, i assume since you haven't replied to email that your ent-d, medfrig and klae won't be joinin this tour? either way plz confirm so i can prep for dustoff :) (p.s. if timing's the issue & it would help any, feel free to send xtra 3 straight to jt for tour hookup there)
vt

vulcantouch
03-10-2003, 10:32 PM
ltb's protorp arrived over weekend, lookin Damn good but i didn't have time to review it so i'll do that when it comes back thru here later :) anyhoo, in addition to jt's fc catalogs, clonepilot & mib mm cars the following are on their way to him:
ltb's proto kaztorp, gsj's proto array, r2's proto atst and b'jr's proto ef1, along with my personal prodo mms of kaztorp, array & ef1 for comparison :)
the plan once again: after jt has em for a week, he sends to ltb, then after a week he sends to gsj, then after a week gsj sends the rest (minus his array) back to me in time for me to give r2's atst back to her during late-april starcon, okeydoy?
keep us posted here re each arrival, departure & reactions-
vt

good shot jansen
03-11-2003, 01:45 PM
woo hoo! all aboard the proto express! chuga chuga chuga chuga woo hoo!

if i receive the latest additions to the jansen proto stable (kalestron, frigate, and ent -d) i will substitute those for my array.

then when you send ltb his torp back, you can also include my additional three, and after he's done viewin' em, he can the disperse them back in my direction.

if i do not receive them in time, we will of course werk suptin' else out.

np: yardbirds - train kept a rollin'

JediTricks
03-16-2003, 07:47 PM
Got the stuff on Friday but didn't have a chance to open 'em till today. VT is a mighty good packer, no surprise there though.

I opened the proto box after finding my personal stuff (a million mags, a Ro Laren Playmates figure stand, a Clone Pilot, and the MIB Ford LTD MMs) to find a lot of text and a daunting task - memorizing the packing order for later. I hadn't seen in person 3 of the 4 MMs being presented here before (EF1, Array, Torpedo) so first I checked out the production versions which were packed in a bag that itself was within balled-up paper, almost didn't notice them there. Then 1 by 1 I compared them to their proto brethren, what a shocker. It's funny to have been so caught up with the MM craze for so long and then to be presented with these - it's like walking around all your life needing glasses and then finally putting them on.

Array comparison was my place to start, so much detail was left out or softened on this piece that it seems more like someone melted the proto down before pulling molds from it. The Array's panels on the production version are just the flat boring plates with detail painted into them, but the proto has these areas sculpted out and makes all the difference in the world. Examining the stand hole was interesting too, it's weird not to find the standard hex. Even the color was more brilliant and alive than the production version. Remembering VT's discovery of the individual squares on the core made me curious enough to look, with my eyes (20/15 vision, better than 20/20) I could see what he was talking about.

Torpedo was up next, and I guess this one stands up the best to its proto, though it's still not that close. I was surprised to see stickers on the sides of the proto, they don't exist on the original and what they represent doesn't either. Again, sharper details on the proto, but the color issue isn't as strong as the Array's comparison.

Earth Force One was up next, this comparison really spoke about the paint-accuracy differences. Checking out the stand hole, I noticed glue inside it, a little shocking because it could have put the proto in jeopardy when originally used on a stand. Then I noticed it, the missing top solar panel... at first I thought it had broken in shipping and fell out of the baggie when I wasn't looking, it took me a while to compose myself and remember that this piece had already gone astray (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=210223#post210223) before it began the tour. (Perhaps if VT had written that somewhere like he did everything else, it might have helped :p)

That experience kinda soured my enjoyment of the protos as the issue of "irreplaceable unique items" loomed over every touch - "too heavy, you might break it; too light, you might drop it; too long since you washed your hands, the acid on them might ruin the paint".

Finally I got over myself and moved to proto #4, the AT-ST... and boy did I wish I hadn't. (Don't worry, nothing happened to it.) Mind you, this is a fantastic prototype, while I can't find my MM version of it anywhere at the moment, it's painfully obvious that this one is vastly superior. I especially marvelled at the "eyes", the paint under them is so good that at first I thought it really was hollow inside and we could see in. But this thing is just too thin and fragile - the production version was a pain in the behind simply due to warping problems, this one feels more like it'll break! As soon as I looked at it from all sides, I wanted it as far away from me as possible, but packing it back in its little bag and stuffing it in the box like it was some generic action figure accessory was not an option, putting it in sideways would likely result in a leg snapping off, packing it in with the legs not parallel may result in joint breakage, so many variables to contend with and less-than-ample surroundings to ensure its safety - ultimately, I got it to a satisfactory position and location, but this took longer than actually examining the proto.

Anyway proto owners, thank you for giving me the opportunity to get a glimpse of these incredible items of yours. They all tell great tales of the toys we know and love; too bad all MMs couldn't be this high quality.

There's too much stress in my life already so there's no way I'm keeping these around another 5 days - Basker, email me (jeditricks@earthlink.net) your address so I can get these things the heck out of here ASAP. I'll need to get another outer box and packing material for it because the one VT sent me is far too big now that it doesn't contain a figure and a ton of magazines.

r2dee2
03-16-2003, 11:12 PM
JT, thanks for the review and glad you liked the protos VT sent your way. It is an eye opener isn't it?:sur:

I mentioned the new location of the VTTIME (http://r2toyforce.net/vttime2003.htm) and the PROTOS (http://r2toyforce.net/proto.htm) in another thread, but wanted to do it again here, in case someone unfamiliar with our goings on wondered in:D

LTBasker
03-20-2003, 06:19 PM
I just got them from JT today, I'm almost afraid to touch them. :D

They are all quite amazing, and this is my first time to see Ef1, and the Kazon Torp (except for the proto, of course) and the Array in person. The Torpedo as said doesn't differ all that much, but you can tell a bit was lost in the translation between resin and plastic.

The Array is like a whole other model compared to the Prodo version it's amazing!

The EF1 is quite sweet, I think I may end up hunting my own on ebay later. I think the proto version had an accident during shipping though (part of the side of the box was ripped into a bit :eek: ) and one of the glued on panels seperated from the body, looks like it would be reglueable though. I'll make sure the wing piece stays in the bag of course.

I'm gonna have another look at them tonight (right now they're boxed back up) and take some pictures, then in a few days I'll mail them off to GSJ. (Send me your address, VT added listed just about everything except an address list ;))

Glitch
03-20-2003, 06:54 PM
It sounds as though Protopalooza '03 is going VERY well. It is really cool of you guys to participate.

I just hope that EF1 is still in at least six pieces by the time B'Jr. gets to see it!
Poor thing. :)




.

JediTricks
03-21-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by LTBasker
I think the proto version had an accident during shipping though (part of the side of the box was ripped into a bit :eek: ) and one of the glued on panels seperated from the body, looks like it would be reglueable though. WHAT?!? :eek: I paid extra money for that outer box and those packing peanuts and the extra shipping weight they incurred, and this is the result???? AAAAAARGH!!! This was a box within a box within a box, the innermost box with the protos seemed nearly impregnable when I put it in there! :frus: :frus: :frus: :cry:

How much did the shipping claim to be on there? Did it seem to have been opened and inspected by the PO? If we had insured this like I suggested, then at least there would be $90 from the PO for messing this up.

vulcantouch
03-21-2003, 10:47 AM
jt: "paid extra money for that outer box and those packing peanuts and the extra shipping weight they incurred"
-actually i just meant for you to fwd the protos within the box-within-the-prodo-containing-box; hmm, my taoist senses wonder if going to the trouble of the xtra box & peenuts inadvertantly Caused the problem ;)

ltb: "EF1 is quite sweet, I think I may end up hunting my own on ebay"
-while b'jr likes his a lot, since he has 3 he Might trade one depending on what you could offer :)
vt

LTBasker
03-21-2003, 01:23 PM
Don't worry JT, it seperated at the glue, it probably just got overheated in there and the glue got soft.

No it didn't seem to have been opened from what I could tell, the only weird part was the rip in the box, which wasn't severe enough to hit the protos. Don't worry GSJ, I'll be switching boxes before sending it on to you.

good shot jansen
04-07-2003, 03:32 PM
vt, let me know if i should send everything off to you now, or wait until new batch of protos arrive.

i have yet to receive them, and am ready to ship everything else your way.

here we are in april, and i know you need your mm's back for proper seasonal displayin' purposes.

gsj standing by!

good shot jansen
04-09-2003, 04:32 PM
i am so glad to have taken part in this proto tour, in fact i wouldn't have even bought any of the protos in the 1st place if this tour hadn't been proposed. thanx vt!

the level of detail is amazing. the photos shown on r2's page do not do the protos justice, they truely need to be seen in person to truely appreciate them.

in the very near future, i will be the proud recipient of three more protos, the kalestron (which was originally supposed to go to vt, but do to circumstances beyond control, it is now earmarked in my direction), the seperating saucer enterprise -d, and last but not least, the medical frigate nebulon - b from star wars.

in appreciation for all who took part in this initial proto tour, i will gladly be sending off the new batch to all those who participated the 1st go-round for their viewin' pleasure. if anyone else is getting any proto's and wish to be part of the tour, all arrangements can be made through our very own social director supreme vt.

once i receive the new batch i will dispatch them off in vt's direction, and as was done on the 1st tour, vt will then arrange the order of where they are to be sent along the line.

stay tuned for reviews of the next batch of proto's

:)

LTBasker
05-03-2003, 07:36 PM
*taps mic* This thing on? Any news on where these things are? Things just sort of dropped after I sent them to GSJ...

good shot jansen
05-04-2003, 07:39 AM
and by the looks of this here post (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=247544#post247544), will soon be wingin' it's way towards ya ltb.

:)

np: shirly partridge (errr jones), and company - O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A oklahooooooooooma.......:oYEEEEOOOOWWWWWWW!:sur: (original movie soundtrack)

LTBasker
05-04-2003, 11:13 PM
Oh ok, cool, I missed that post. :)

np: I want my baby back ;)

LTBasker
05-06-2003, 01:12 PM
Well I got a package today, it's my proto HMS Bounty. :) I figured it would be amazing, but this was amazingly awesome! The wings are kinda loose, but that's not biggy as I guess it was probably a show piece for Galoob then so they worked with the wings some.

You can actually tell just by holding it by itself, that it's significantly bigger than the production version. You can see alot of detail in the ship that definitely was lost in the tanslation. For instance the gun turrets are alot better looking than just tube-like, theres several vent-like areas on the ship, which are only hinted at on the production. It doesn't have the HMS Bounty text on it, I guess they wanted it to be a "hero" pack so that's why it was added.

You can see the overall design is more sleek and rough-edged, which makes the Production version feel alot more bubblelike. I'll post pictures if I can, but I've tried with the other protos and I just can't get a good quality, that's why I haven't posted pics.

good shot jansen
05-06-2003, 01:33 PM
i have also received a box o' proto goodies as well!

the ent-d removable saucer version
the klaestron
medical frigate nebulon -b

they are, as was the array, breathtaking in their level of detail, clarity, and crispness. a full review will be forthcoming prolly tonight, once i get em home and compare em' to the prodo's.

np: emerson lake and palmer - karn evil9 2nd movement "welcome back my friends to the show that never ends................:o

good shot jansen
05-06-2003, 08:40 PM
1st the klaestron

the 1st shock, was that the proto is 1/4 smaller in size that the prodo:confused: , i thought it was supposed to be the other way around:frus:

this dimunative size does indeed distract from the over-all appearance and appreciation for this well detailed ship.

the ship is also quite bit more slender from the side profile than the prodo by i'd say half the thickness.

i have to say the size is a disapointment, i'm glad to have this ship, but at this size, it doesn't quite feel like a micro machine :(

putting the size issue aside;

the detail elements are indeed crisp and clean, and read extrememly well, even for a toy this size (hmmmm, can't seem to shake that size thing), the nacelles of the proto are of a completely different design than the prodo. the front and back of the nacelles are brought to an angle point, where as on the prodo, the angles were cut off, right at the point where they begin on the proto.:confused: very strange indeed. having the proto, with the angled nacelles, now makes the prodo one feel incomplete, it's like a big knife in the prodo production line, cercumcised the tips of the nacelles before sending the klaestron off to the packaging departmnet :eek:

the fins which are on the top and bottom of both nacelles on the prodo version, are missing from the proto. i like the ship better without the fins. actually, something just accured to me. as the fins are angled like the ends of the proto's nacelles, i wonder if somehow during the course of production, someone misunderstood the directions for producing the klaestron mold, and by mistake put what was supposed to be the angled tips of the nacelles, and mounted them at the top and bottom, forming what we now have as fins on the prodo:eek:

the detail on the wings is of a different design on the proto as well. on the prodo, the detail of the grooving is of a sort of asymetrical design, while on the proto, the lines are symetrical and carry for the full length of the wings.

the emblems on the wings are also very crisp and easy to see the design, where as on the prodo, they are quite ghostlike and hard to make out.

the paint job is way way wya superior on the proto, all colors are crisp and clean. all the different hues of the blues and purples stand out very nicely, and give this proto, an overall superior appearance to the prodo. i just wish it was of the same size as the prodo, then this proto klaestron would have been puuuuurfect.

good shot jansen
05-06-2003, 09:26 PM
medical frigate nebulon-b

now this is what i call a proto! wow! this proto is about an 1/8 larger than the prodo.

the details are nothing short of stunning. every crevace line, and countour, (and baby, does this ship have a metric ton of those:crazed: ) are clear, sharp, and amazingly fine detailed. every raised relief, and set back element is crisp in appearance. the prodo is even more blurry in comparison, than the prodo array was to the proto version of itself:sur:

the color hues hused to distinguish each portion of the ship, brings out detail that was never known on the prodo. the top front portion juts out from a cowling type connection with the remainder of the top fusalage (the portion with the smoke stack? and antennae?)

the back engine portion of the ship is the most striking when compared with the prodo section. (this ship has so many differnt components, it's truely amazing to appreciate with this proto version).

on the prodo, this whole rear section is a blurry mess of pieces and parts. the rear engine portion is a separate piece which was glued on as an appendage to the rear section. on the proto, each element is not only clear, you can almost tell the purpose of each item. the whole rear section including the engine portion, was fabricated from one piece, and is truely fastenating to look at and study.

the true workamnship that went inot these protos really shine on the frigate.

i wish i had the abillity to take close detailed comparison photos of the two, they truely are like night and day.

hopefully while on proto tour 2, someone will be able to photograph this one, to truely show the amazing level of work

vulcantouch
05-06-2003, 11:18 PM
if so, how bout: ltb sends his hms to gsj, then gsj sends those 4 protos to me, then i pass them along to jt (maybe enclosing ltb's protorp for simplicity, otherwise i just mail it directly to ltb), then jt sends to ltb, then ltb sends gsj's 3 back to him? or how bout gsj send his 3 to ltb, then ltb sends all 4 to jt, then jt sends all 4 to me, then i send all 4 to gsj (+ ltb's protorp which he already saw, or i just send that straight to ltb by itself), then gsj sends hms back to ltb? or or. . . damn, this's a bit more complex than last time, i'm trying to deduce the magical route which will reduce to an absolute minimum the number of launches we have to make; if you fellers have any helpful input say so here :crazed:
vt
np: scarface's "Firsh joo get the money, Den joo get de power, Den joo get de wimmin" maxim, w/sequence garbled by jon loViTz on snl :p

LTBasker
05-06-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by good shot jansen
now this is what i call a proto! wow! this proto is about an 1/8 larger than the prodo.

Yeah, after you look at the proto HMS for awhile, the prodo HMS looks like a mini-micro!


Originally posted by vulcantouch
if so, how bout: ltb sends his hms to gsj, then gsj sends those 4 protos to me, then i pass them along to jt (maybe enclosing ltb's protorp for simplicity, otherwise i just mail it directly to ltb), then jt sends to ltb, then ltb sends gsj's 3 back to him? or how bout gsj send his 3 to ltb, then ltb sends all 4 to jt, then jt sends all 4 to me, then i send all 4 to gsj (+ ltb's protorp which he already saw, or i just send that straight to ltb by itself), then gsj sends hms back to ltb? or or. . . damn, this's a bit more complex than last time, i'm trying to deduce the magical route which will reduce to an absolute minimum the number of launches we have to make; if you fellers have any helpful input say so here :crazed:


I dunno if I want to send out the HMS though, since ithas the dorsal fins, distruptor turrets, cockpit section and wings that are all pretty fragile.. Hmm, I might though, since it even survived a day in storage at the post office. (wasn't here when they had the package first with'em) And it's also give JT a chance to check out the HMS...

If you want a route to go though, how's about we send to you, you send to JT, he sends to me, I send to GSJ and he takes his three, then he sends my HMS back to me? This way each of us just sends once.

Let me think about it on the tour, promise to not hold it up like last time. :)

good shot jansen
05-07-2003, 07:37 AM
the enterprise - d

at fisrt look, the proto doesn't look very different from the prodo. it's approximately the same size, the color hue is of a lighter shade than the prodo by just a hair.

there are some differences which do present themselves at 1st glance, such as the red color at the base of the saucer section mount where it attaches to the body of the ship, the prodo does not have the red color there.

when looking at the ship under flourescent, work task lighting, the prodo actually looks more detailed than the proto:eek:

all the different grooves, and white highlights of the prodo pop at ya more than they do on the proto.

it's when ya look at these things under natural sunlight, that everything changes.

the detailing, grooves and raised elements of the proto are far more complex, and delicately engraved into the hull and suacer sections. the amount of detail elements double (if not triple) in amount than what was used on the production version.

the connection mount of the saucer section is configured differntly as well.

on the prodo version, the back part of the saucer has a shape like this at the connection point " ] " on the proto it looks like this " } '

the underside of the hull section is where the detailing of the proto really stands out in comparison to the prodo. each groove has a purpose, and is meticulously presnted.

my only gripe about the proto is with the application of the decals:eek: decals!!???, yeah, fricken decals:mad: , the name and numbering of the ship on the proto are applied with decals, and not very well i might add, whereas on the prodo, all this is actually painted on:confused: you have a beautiful matte finish of the enterprise, which is now distracted by the application of shiny applied decals, and as indicated above, the application of the decals is crooked and out of alignment.. oh well, life can't be perfect i guess.

actually, as indicated above, the medical frigate is indeed perfect.

all in all i am very happy with my new additions of proto's :)

good shot jansen
05-07-2003, 07:50 AM
either and all ways is fine with me,

the only reason why i would preference sending the proto's to vt 1st, is cause nobody reviews these things better than the jean genie.

if we send to him 1st, we get the critiques that much quicker :)

so i gusee i'm voting for ltb's proposed route. also, now that summers approaching, i'm sure vt, and r2dee2 can arrange a viewin' show at the tattered cover, so that more folks get to see these gems in person.

oh, and if so desired, i'll also include the array for one more trip around the horn, that way, we'll keep the jansen collection complete, just say so, if you'de like to see it again.

vulcantouch
05-07-2003, 12:35 PM
. . .and if anyone should be sending twice it's Me, since i ain't even providing a proto this time round :rolleyes: another factor: i also got a substantial pkg to send gsj (so far 12 cds, 3 cassettes, 1 book & coupla mms) which might be able to include protos to him in case that simplifies anything. also, jt needs to confirm here he wants in on protour2 :)
ok ltb, let us know what you decide re hms, my gut sez it'll be ok but up to you :) meanwhile i gather from your prev reply that asap protorp return isn't so urgent for you so maybe that gives us flexibility too :)

gsj: "would preference sending the proto's to vt 1st, is cause nobody reviews these things better"
-but not necessarily Faster, as evidenced by my Still-unposted protorp review :p but while on a cafe patio during a clear warm aft ~2 weeks ago, was able to relax & take thorough review/prodocompare notes under the sun, so now i just need to find a spare hour to type it up & post it here :)
timing tour to allow for tea-viewing's a good idea too, tho remains to be seen if we'd be able to arrange it (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=248755#post248755) :sur:
vt

JediTricks
05-07-2003, 11:05 PM
Yeah, I'm in. I'd *really* appreciate mailing and general care instructions this time though, that'd be a mega-plus. If someone wants to buy some foam blocks and hollow them out to the shapes of the protos, I could try to dig deep and chip in on that.

Also, will someone be supplying an HMS prodo? I ask not because I want to steal it (twirling mustache "heh heh heh" style :evil: ;)) but because I've still never seen one in person and will have nothing to compare it to.


VT, no matter how you look at it, every proto owner will have to send SOMETHING twice.

vulcantouch
05-08-2003, 12:05 AM
jt: "every proto owner will have to send SOMETHING twice"
-this is essentially a math problem; and for reasons it'd take too long to explain via proofs & theorems, your assertion is incorrect. however, for all of us to view all the ships no less than Five launches will be required. since neither jt or i am providing a proto this time, it'd only be fair if either he or i handled the xtra launch. ironically, it's impractical for he or i to do it for exactly the same reason; since we are not providing a proto, the tour can't kick off from either of us (to minimize the number of launches, being the first sender is a mathematical requirement for anyone launching more than once).
that leaves ltb and gsj. so again in interest of fairness i think ltb should handle the second jump since gsj's providing 3. meanwhile i'll make a second, non-tour-related jump in sending gsj's media pkg to him separately. so the most efficient sequence becomes:
1:ltb sends hms to gsj (opt. include prodo hms);
2:gsj sends 4 protos to jt (opt. include prodo hms);
3:jt sends to vt;
4:vt sends protos (including ltb's protorp) to ltb, and mediapkg to gsj;
5:then ltb returns 3 protos to gsj :) agreed? :)
whew, all i needed for the solution to magically come to me was a chance to chant "om" :p
vt

LTBasker
05-08-2003, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by vulcantouch
meanwhile i gather from your prev reply that asap protorp return isn't so urgent for you so maybe that gives us flexibility too :)

True, if I'm in on the tour you could send it to me when you send me the other protos. I know it's in good hands so no problems.

That foam block idea is good, maybe it could be cut in half and then have the HMS sandwiched in it. Since JT said he hasn't seen the prodo version either, I could also slip mine in to compare them too.

Lemme check up on this...

good shot jansen
05-08-2003, 01:32 PM
werks for me

i will include the prodo's of all my protos, that way jt will have a chance to compare prodo's to proto's in case jt didn't have all the prodos of my proto's............comprende? (cause i ain't saying all that again.......)

should i include the array for a 2nd go round? that way the jansen collection is kept complete. let me know, if not necesarry, it will stay home then.

JediTricks
05-08-2003, 08:17 PM
Oh, see I thought VT was the starting point and everybody was sending protos to him - thus, mail twice.

GSJ, prodos would be much appreciated of yours, while I know exactly where my Ent-D Saucer Sep MM is, I can't get to it right now; as to the other 2, I have 'em but don't know exactly where.


LTB, the cut-in-half idea is very good, gives it full protection (just don't use styrofoam, it'll chip away the paint). I'll try to check out my local Foam Mart (yes, that's it's name) and see what they have and how much it'll cost. The real kicker for me is I've had several foam blocks here in the past year that would have done the trick but at the time had no use for them so I ended up giving them away. :(

vulcantouch
05-16-2003, 11:50 AM
double-boxing like last time should work just fine for Prototection, no need for fancy carved foam blocks imo :crazed:
note for gsj: feel free to enclose my hawk along for the tour ride, that way jt can get a look at it en route :)
so is anyone gonna enclose prodo hms so jt can view alongside proto? can't be me, cuz i receive tour After him :sur:
vt

Warstar
05-16-2003, 05:32 PM
How many Prototypes are roaming around out there now, anyway?

vulcantouch
05-17-2003, 11:43 AM
. . .the only one currently in circulation is ltb's kaztorp, which i'm holding till tour2 comes round & it hitches ride back2him. which means it'd be available for in-person viewing during next tea scheduled for this thursday (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=1381&perpage=920&pagenumber=2), in case you're interested. and of Course you'd be welcome, cuz while i may not condone or engage in reciprocal biz with Scalpers (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=17869&perpage=15&pagenumber=1), why would i turn up my nose at merely Socializing w/them? :evil:;)
vt

Warstar
05-17-2003, 04:23 PM
It is with a heavy heart I go into the black darkness of Scalperism. With a definition so concrete as that one, I finally understand your side. However, I go down the dark path with a sense of realism, though.

I mean you are lucky, VT- you can afford the luxury of a home and a life without having to resort to selling "your babies." You think it's easy parting with YEARS of work and fun? Do you think I actually LIKE selling my "big scores" or my "big finds," thus making all the hours I spent in lines before stores opened null and void?

How did I get here, you ask? Obsession. I had to have one of everything opened and one of everything closed. Then, Love came into my life, and I blindly followed it to Montana, and my financial demise was only furthered by my anime/DVD compulsion. The my Star Wars Lego compulsion (I am still not selling those). And then, frivolous spending. I know now the error of my ways, but I did not learn in time to save 25 years of toy collecting. 25 years. Oh yeah- I'm a Scalper all right. I love it. Really. I do. (Smell the sarcasm? I hope so).

I cannot go back to my old life- Gateway, where I worked back in Colorado Springs, closed merely 5 months after I left. I would be in this predicament no matter what, unless I lucked out and was one of the few who could actually get a job in Colorado Springs. However, when you read articles that a place who advertised for an "Administrative Assistant" that paid a mere $8.00 got 450 resumes, it brings it all into perspective.

The simple fact is I am not meant to have this stuff anymore. I spent literally thousands of dollars and thousands of hours collecting this stuff. I made strong friendships (and I am glad you see it fit to still hang out with me :)) and charted new life pths...but, in the end, it all feels null and void. I hate life for that- I regret not stopping my destructive path sooner.

I have been collecting since I was 4 years old. I am now 29. Having to sell my toys is the hardest thing I have ever done, and I am doing so with the reluctance a General has sending his best soldier to his death. The General knows it must be done, and he cannot do it himself because there are others who depending on him. Thus, I am sacrificing one life to gain another...

It is my ultimate goal to get everything I have let go back someday. I will be a collector again. It's only a matter of time and luck. However, $104,000 worth of debt must be eliminated first, and only having made $3,500 off of selling so far leaves a lot left :(

If anyone reading this is a millionaire, if you get behind me, I can make one hell of a good film for you ;). Else- can you spare some change? :D

Well, that was a rather pointless rant, but it had to be done. Bottom line is that I am not selling because I want to- I HAVE to. I do not give it away for what I got it for, VT, simply because some of the stuff I have collected cost me a lot more than it was worth. If I had continued down the path I was on, it would have cost me a house, a car, and ultimately, the collection itself for I would have no way to survive with it. So far, it's costing me calls from bill collectors...and if I don't sell more soon, it could cost me more than that.

I envy all of you that have enough to pay for your obsession...those of you who have the luxury of being "ethically correct" and trading for your stuff or getting equal value for what you paid for it. I wish beyond wishing I could do that without losing the shirt off my back, but I am not so lucky.

Don't take your collection for granted- for you could lose it in an instant. Or, like me, over an agonizing trial of months...:(

jeddah
05-17-2003, 06:30 PM
I lost my business, my house, my car, and another precious thing, but I never resorted to scalping. I could have certainly settled some debts. And, when I realised I was spending money in the wrong quarters, I stopped. Simple.

I now have boxes of AFs, figures and Mms in the attic along with about £2.5K worth of aluminium R2 D2 parts but they have always been too important to me to flog.

But I am all for choice and you have made a choice so Good For You. What I am not into is whining jusitification. Just stick to your guns and be done with it.

I think Katherine Hepburn said (god I'm such a *** cliché, but...) "never explain, never complain" or vice versa. I think your needy protestations and explanations would sound far less disingenuous if you made an appearance here more often than to just post your latest financial dilemma and then append a list of what you were auctioning.

Perhaps - when you get sorted out - you could invest your money in some proper therapy instead of retail therapy; you clearly have some happiness issues that cause you to spend money.

On a good note, the precious thing I lost has returned to me. :D

jeddah

Warstar
05-18-2003, 01:24 AM
Well, then, how did you end up getting out of that pinch, Jeddah, if you don't mind me asking? Because if I can use a similar method, I'll stop "scalping" ASAP :D

I have been well aware of the issues that caused me to buy, and I have since corrected them. I am only selling the stuff that was bought during the phase I went through (if you can call 9 years a "phase :)") As I said, I am still keeping some of it- I just can't keep all of it right now. I'll get it back someday though- no problem there. Hec- if Kevin Smith can do it, I can too! :p

I like the Hepburn quote- and I am glad you got your precious thing back ;). Hehe- I am reminded of another one of her quotes: "Men and Women should live apart and only visit when they're horny." :D

Anyway, guns are loaded and being stuck to, sir. Gimme a target! :Pirate:

good shot jansen
05-18-2003, 07:57 AM
:sur:


anyway, back on topic......

i will indeed enclose the hawk, so's jt can take a gander, as fer the bounty, if ltb don't wanna enclose prodo as well as proto, i'll be more than happy to fill the void. so no worries there, one way or another, jt will get to see the prodo, and proto in one fallow swoop:)

(not bad for a 1st look i might add)

vulcantouch
05-19-2003, 12:34 PM
jdah purty much sed it about makin yer choice & takin yer lumps, tho i personally haven't minded your pop-ins to just apprise us of your latest financial dilemma & pimp your auctions; after all, i troll my Hump (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2216&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) (which i notice you Still haven't chimed in on, Mister Fancy Filmmaker :p) around ssg every (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=251620#post251620) damn (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=228148#post228148) chance (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=247483#post247483) i (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=251607#post251607) get (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=240193#post240193) :evil:

jdah: "and another precious thing"
ws: "Love came into my life, and I blindly followed it"
-assuming these two are the same subject, for future ref i'll repeat here a bit of clarifying wisdom i shared w/jdah in recent email (and which swaffy, in light of his past experience w/Dusty Springfield (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=251483#post251483), might also wanna heed): "love is a joke life plays on us, making us want something we can't have, to trick us into putting up with things we don't want" :evil:
in other words, luv has its own inscrutable agenda. why That agenda? hey don't ask me, ask luv; all i know is it's not to be trusted :p

"you are lucky, VT"
-if you mean lucky in the sense that i'm not personally torn by the same difficult choice you currently face (pursue a film career or maintain collector honor), i agree. but i'm not sure i agree that those are your only two choices, or that scalping's an acceptable way to handle (or evade) the consquences of your past choices.

"you can afford the luxury of a home and a life"
-while "life" in this context remains a relative term and thus difficult to debate, how do You know i'm in a "home"? for all you know i squat FightClub-style in a circuit of abandoned, dilapidated-but-liveable locations (mms in tow of course), while maintaining fixed-site storage for my extensive, year-round music, fashion, reading & video archives ("did you know the obsidian order saves Everything?"- entek, ds9's "second skin" :evil: ), a setup which, i'm sure you'd agree, the word "home" would hardly fit ;)

"Do you think I actually LIKE selling"
-idunno, but i also don't know what "not liking it" has to do with selling for more than you paid.

"The simple fact is I am not meant to have this stuff anymore"
-a mature realization, but one already covered elsewhere in my various commentary, i.e. those who can't afford to collect w/out gouging other collectors to finance it should simply abstain from collecting until they can.

"glad you see it fit to still hang out with me"
-hey, so long as you don't mind my having made my opinions about your actions clear, why should i mind? business is one thing, socializing quite another. your choice to discuss here what you knew i/we would bust yer agates about doesn't change that. we're all mixed bags in one way or another. besides i appreciate you going to the trouble of sloggin thru & grasping my legalese-couched def & analysis, unlike Some who replied to that thred ;)

gsj: my name is vt, & i'm still bogarting a protorp critique (restayou chorus: "hi vt") :p
vt

SWAFMAN
05-19-2003, 08:54 PM
hi vt

Warstar
05-20-2003, 05:29 PM
for all you know i squat FightClub-style in a circuit of abandoned, dilapidated-but-liveable locations (mms in tow of course), while maintaining fixed-site storage for my extensive, year-round music, fashion, reading & video archives

Dude...you'd be my hero...:D

"I want you to hit me as hard as you can!"

Hehehe :)

Anyway, cool, thanks VT. Socializing is indeed more fun, and I am glad I haven't quite worn out my welcome :p

Well, my MM's will be showing up on Ebay here very soon. To all those who wrote about the AF's (you know who you are) I think I am going to try and put them all on Ebay simply because I did some research and some are doing quite well. I will of course combine shipping, and 4 of them shold easily ship for $4.50 US Priority Mail...unlike some loose aucitons, however, I am throwing a little extra in if you want it- namely, the original boxes to all of the loose stuff! Shipping will be more, but possibly worth it to some people. (I have almost all of my AF boxes, sadly enough...)

I will put all the loose AF's at reasonable opening bid prices (Read: $4.99) and go from there. I'll post the links in the Ebay thread here.

The first thing I plan to put up is my 1701-E Enterprise. Then, my Micro MICRO Machines SW 1997 Trilogy 3 pack...speaking of which, anyone ever see these? They're danged cool and MUCH smaller than regular MM's. I remember I won them on Ebay myself...for like $27 back in the day. I doubt they'll command that much now, but we'll see.

ANYway, I about wet myself seeing that Lego AT-AT! Glad I still have a weakness :Pirate:

Anyway, off to work! :crazed:

JediTricks
05-20-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Warstar
Then, my Micro MICRO Machines SW 1997 Trilogy 3 pack...speaking of which, anyone ever see these? They're danged cool and MUCH smaller than regular MM's. I remember I won them on Ebay myself...for like $27 back in the day. I doubt they'll command that much now, but we'll see. The first thing I ever bought off ebay was the mini-Micro 3pack from the ANH (or was it ESB) Special Edition opening day. I had been trying to get this set off ebay for weeks, and the best prospect that was on my screen was sniped away by none other than VT, who didn't know it was me at the time though I suspect that probably wouldn't have mattered. I had bid on it and had been watching that auction for several days and it was down to the last minutes when VT's snipe bid came in right before midnight, I went to counterbid and ebay's sever crashed, thus costing me the auction. I finally won an auction a week or so later for less than $6.50. I haven't seen them at auction lately, but they seem to go for around $5 now.

SWAFMAN
05-20-2003, 10:35 PM
I will put all the loose AF's at reasonable opening bid prices (Read: $4.99) and go from there. I'll post the links in the Ebay thread here.


No problem, Warstar. Just make 'em all with buy it now options at that price, and post here 24 hours in advance with the exact time they're being listed. ;)

good shot jansen
05-21-2003, 06:46 AM
i received my star wars theater give-a-way three pack some years ago, in the best posible fashion i might add.

r2dee2 generously gave one to me as a gift!

as always, thanx r2! your the best!:happy:

Warstar
05-21-2003, 06:35 PM
Only $5? Grrr...well, mine is up for $10 as an opening bid. I did pay $27 for it...bah. Humbug.

I got to get my single-carded machines up now...

Buy it now for $4.99? As much as my collector conscience (is that like Spider-sense?) would like to do that, it would be kinda' fool hardy. Though, there is an inundation of loose AF's up right now, so the prices probably won't go too high.

Hehe...first AF up? Loose E-Wing with box and figures...as soon as I get the text coded and pictures done...Box optional.

good shot jansen
05-30-2003, 02:40 PM
ltb, are you joinin' in on the proto tour 2? i'm ready to ship the newest batch once i receive bounty from ya.

if your gettin' cold feet, and choose not to participate, let me know, and i'll forward what i got on to jt. (not to worry mr. tricks, even if ltb is out, i'll still send along my prodo hms so's you can get a gander at it)

i will be out of town between june 11th to the 18th. family business to attend to up in new yawk, so's if you are joining the fun crowd for a 2nd slice o' mm heaven ltb, then make sure you either ship so's it arrives prior to the 11th, or wait until after the 18th before shipping. i'd hate for the lil' bugger to be sittin' around my office in a box and no one admiring it.

oh... and one mo' thang, wherethehell'sthatkazontorpreviewalready?:p

JediTricks
05-31-2003, 04:52 AM
Yikes GSJ, I didn't realize that wasn't a VT post until I re-read the author box!!!
We're becoming of one mind... one mind... one mind... *

good shot jansen
05-31-2003, 12:54 PM
at'sa ok, i myself haven't recognized any of your recent postin's as being yours either, due to that new 'tar you've been sportin'

it's funny how one becomes acustomed to a bussiness-as-usal complacency, and then one lil' change outta the ordinary, and your whole world's topsey turvey.

i've had to go back through a bunch o' threads, and re-read em so's i can keep up with your current mind set mr. tricks.

why the change? for years i was familiar with your r2 dome, then when ya changed it to the tricks on fire logo, that became comfortable. with your new matt groening (a classmate of mine at the evergreen state college btw), futurama deal, your posts don't stand out as they once did.

as fer confusin' me with the vulcan one......i use waaaaaay less smilies:p

LTBasker
06-01-2003, 07:17 AM
I've been thinking it over, and sorry but I'd rather not do this. I'm just too nervous about the Bounty's fragility, I know the Array, AT-ST and EF1 were risked with more brittle parts, but I just would rather not take the chances. If we all lived closer I'd gladly donate it to the tour, but since it's going even going to each side coast well..

I would still kinda like to see them, and that way VT could still send me back the KazTorp.

good shot jansen
06-01-2003, 09:32 AM
i kinda had a feelin' that you wasn't too keen on this go-round, no problema on my side.

i will be forwarding a package this week to jt, containin' the proto, and prodo kalestron, nebulon b, and ent d, as well as a prodo bounty (so's jt can finally see what one looks and feels like)(btw, please pm me your shipping address again jt, many reboots, and new machines have swam under the bridge since i last forwarded you anything)

after jt, i guess it moves on to vt, from there on to ltb (that way he can get his torp back, and view the new batch), and then from ltb back on to moi.

tour 2 will be under way this week!

JediTricks
06-02-2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by good shot jansen
why the change? for years i was familiar with your r2 dome, then when ya changed it to the tricks on fire logo, that became comfortable. with your new matt groening (a classmate of mine at the evergreen state college btw), futurama deal, your posts don't stand out as they once did. I almost forgot about the R2 that I did, that's the closest thing to straight-up "art" from me since my days of crayons and fingerpaints (about 5 years ago ;) j/k). The change came from me finding Farnsworth funny, specifically his slack-jawed gawking. Plus, my JT avatar had lost its original impact from the original logo, the concept became lost through the ravages of time.

I know what you mean about the lack of standing out though, I used to be able to spot my posts immediately thanks to the burning, itching sensation I ha... I mean, the burning JT logo. ;) Now, I see the prof and I think "I wonder what he's gawking at" and forget that it's whatever I said the last time I read that thread. :D

vulcantouch
06-06-2003, 10:29 AM
ltb: well, one good thing about your demurral is now you only have to send once ;) thanx for patiently waiting for protorp return till i can send gsj's protos along with :) on related note:

gsj: "wherethehell'sthatkazontorpreviewalready"
-yeah Rilly :rolleyes:

ws: "you'd be my hero"
-why, cuz of the fiscal austerity? the opportunity to snog yummy hbc (http://www.imdb.com/EGallery?source=granitz&group=0665-fig&photo=Events/0665-fig/carterh5.len&path=pgallery&path_key=Bonham%20Carter,%20Helena)? :kiss: or the glamorous lifestyle of biohazard-dumpsterdiving for liposuctioned fat (remember that scene?)? ewwww :p:p:p

jt: "from the ANH (or was it ESB)"
-actually i think it was rotj; good guess ;)

"didn't know it was me at the time though I suspect that probably wouldn't have mattered"
-since as i recall i was at the time still engaged as tain's "secret agent provocateur", i imagine it would only have encouraged me, as it would have only added to my galoobb notoriety :evil:

gsj: "i use waaaaaay less smilies"
-feh, who Doesn't :crazed:
vt

good shot jansen
06-19-2003, 07:45 AM
sorry for not getting the proto-tour under way prior to my leaving for the north east. i had a ton of things to take care of before i left, and i was not able to make it to the post office before hitting the road.

anyway, now that i'm back to the regular grind, i will pack up the proto's and correspondin' prodo's (as well as a bounty for jt's viewin' and vt's scrutinizin', i know how much rocky mountain boy likes to view other peoples tough to find stmm's for quality comparison purposes)


i hope to get them on the road to el lay by tomorrow.

LTBasker
06-19-2003, 04:13 PM
After my recent Gollum figure acquisition, I just couldn't help myself. :D

r2dee2
06-20-2003, 12:09 AM
That's GOOD LTBasker ...a classic:D

good shot jansen
06-26-2003, 07:01 AM
okey dokey,

i finally got my act in gear and mailed off the proto-tour 2 to jt this morning. i decided not to enclose the additional toys for vt in this package, as i was able to cotain all the proto's plus corrosponding prodo's + bounty in a neat little package. i will forward addtional vt merch directly to him in a seperate mailing.

sicqnus - i will get to the post office today, and mail your controllers, once i do that, i will let you know wqht shipping came out to be.

JediTricks
06-29-2003, 10:01 PM
Received 'em in the mail yesterday, didn't open till today though. Since I've already seen the Array proto, I didn't bother opening it. Oh, and since the HMS is not a proto, I'll just comment quickly that it's a very nice piece and a darn shame it's so hard to come by.

The Klaestron ship has never really been one of my favorite TNG-based vessels, I just don't think it's very interesting. The production version is the same way, it's ok but not really exciting for me. However, the proto is a different story.... The main thing about the proto is just how much smaller it is compared to the produ, not like a fraction of a percent, but 20% - I measured. While I initially would have felt jipped paying the same money for this MM as any large MM like DS9 or the Ent-D, the little triangles on the ends of the proto's nacelles bring this ship together nicely. The proto of course has the standard much-higher-quality detail over the produ, but beyond that it just lends an aura of something better, I can't really explain what.

The Rebel Medical Frigate is striking not only because of how nice the sculpting on the proto is, but on how poorly much of that detail translated onto the produ. This, more than most protos I've seen so far, is something that really makes me pine for the sharp quality of the protos in production versions. I especially liked that the window Luke & Leia looked out of was painted on the proto.

The final proto was the most impressive for me: the saucer-separating Enterprise-D. I've been extremely familiar with the Ent-D for over 10 years now, it's not that it's the best-looking Trek ship, just the one I really got to know well. I've always been impressed by the produ version, and even have a 2nd customized one with a makeshift Battle Bridge and no peg on the saucer. However, the proto is incredible, it's like the produ is a cheap knockoff of the proto. The saucer and secondary hull sections are both thinner than the produ. The sculpted lines on the proto are fantastic, they're all so fine and bring so much detail to the party; the produ has nowhere near as much detail - the battle bridge is even partially present on the proto, which is a nice surprise (sadly, still no sculpted details on the underside of the saucer section where it attaches to the secondary hull though). The paint on the proto is slim, but nice, specifically the maneuvering thrusters on the saucer and the main deflector - most of the other colored details on the proto are decals rather than paint and many aren't holding up well. My favorite thing about the proto though is the lines at the saucer separation sections - on the produ, the cobra-head is fairly round and the rear line between the saucer and the spine is flat - on the proto however, the cobra-head is the proper oval shape and the saucer has a small cutout for the spine which has been properly extended. This is an exciting difference, and I can't entirely understand why Galoob made these changes, but I'm glad to have seen the proto none the less.


Ok, so now someone has to let me know who to send this on to.

good shot jansen
06-30-2003, 08:03 AM
i'm glad ya liked the bounty, as the only reason it's along for the ride was fer your viewin' pleasure :cool:

the next whistle stop on the proto tour 2 would be vt .

JediTricks
07-01-2003, 02:31 AM
Oh, then I don't need anybody to email me, I already have his addy. It'll take me a few days to get out though, gotta find some worthy paper & tape since I had to mutilate yer blueprint envelope pretty bad to excise the booty within.

Thanks again on the HMS, that was so cool to finally experience.

vulcantouch
07-06-2003, 04:45 PM
gsj: "wonder if somehow during the course of production, someone misunderstood the directions for producing the klaestron mold"
-actually the proto's detailing was based on this multi-used alien ship design from its TNG days, most notably the tamarian ship from the "darmok" ep. but when galoob was planning the 3-pk #10 assortment there was still a shortage of ds9 ship designs from which to choose. so instead of doing this design in its original tamarian dressing like the proto, the prodo was modified to match its klaestron ("dax" ep) & kellerun ("armageddon game" ep) appearances on ds9. a similar story lies behind numiri inclusion in 3-pak #14 :)

"i know how much rocky mountain boy likes to view other peoples tough to find stmm's for quality comparison purposes"
-indeed; predictability just may be my fatal flaw ;) since the next batch could arrive any day now, and since the kaztorp is a quintessential summer mm i spose i really should get to this:
kaztorp's production version does an admirable job reproducing most of the detail featured on the prototype, and they're the same size; in fact they're so similar that if one (and by "one" i of course mean proto's owner ltb ;) ) owns proto and not the prodo, one isn't really missing out :) i'll confine my remarks to things not already covered by yall above:
proto fabrication vagaries
unlike the prodo's single-piece, four-part-mold construction, the proto's main hull was made with via a standard top/bottom, 2-part mold; then, the six separately-molded fins were adhered.
small squares of detailing were also separately added along the ship's side, rather than simply molded-in as on the prodo.
proto's upper-mid fins have at least 2 separately-added detail plates each, possibly more.
instead of molding additional thickness onto portions of the four rear fins, they have been encased in separately-crafted, wraparound cowling, a downright nutty display of fabrication hubris (it doesn't really add anything that couldnt've been acheived more simply :p ).
proto's rear-ventral diagonal pipes also seem to have been added separately, as well as their "retaining braces"; this may also be true of the pipes running forward-to-back in the same area.
the tail's obviously imperfect curves indicate hand-finishing of its shape.
brushmarks on the forward nose's yellow sections are apparent, indicating that, as on the prodo, the makers had little choice but to apply color to these crevice-shaped areas by hand for satisfactory precision (not they they did so for prodo).
the purple & green detailing paint used throughout was thinned to point of translucency, i'd guess so as to avoid obscuring surface textures by being too thick.
diffs between proto & prodo:
due to above-mentioned top/bottom 2-part molding, the green squares on top of and the purple squares underneath the side mid-fins have been able to be made with indentations on the proto, while being mere painted squares on the prodo. additional "detached" detailing (think earlobes) on these fins was also enabled thusly.
proto's yellow is a bit more light & lemony than prodo's more gold yellow; or, maybe my prodo's just gotten bronzed from so many afternoons in the sun :cool:
surface details on the forward-starboard quarter of the dorsal purple rectangle are slightly reconfigured.
proto's two top-rear thrusters feature additional detail bumps, also applied separately.
the purple areas on proto's side oval pods (where the already-mentioned errant stickers have been applied) feature more elaborate detailing than the prodo.
the hatch-like circle on the nose's underside features an extra blue square of detail not present on the prodo.
on proto's ventral "power-cell"-like details there are extra green squares on the "positive" ends, as though they were batteries flip-installed in a device (port side forward, starboard side back).
proto's angled ventral conduits feature greater separation as they continue back towards the standhole.
the lip of proto's standhole is painted gray instead of prodo's purple. details on the sides of the standhole have also been painted purple.
proto has a raised detail square on its rear ventral (the "bunghole" location :crazed: ) not seen on the prodo.
thanx to ltb for the opportunity to view & review protorp :)
vt

good shot jansen
08-26-2003, 09:10 AM
aren't we supposed to be gettin' some kind of review on the ent-d, nebulon b, and the kalestron?

so far all's we got is a negative review of my prodo's in another thread.

lets git on with the show!


actually, i noticed that this thread had almost disapeared from view, and just wanted to make sure that it wasn't forgotten about.

SWAFMAN
08-26-2003, 05:22 PM
aren't we supposed to be gettin' some kind of review on the ent-d, nebulon b, and the kalestron?

so far all's we got is a negative review of my prodo's in another thread.

lets git on with the show!


actually, i noticed that this thread had almost disapeared from view, and just wanted to make sure that it wasn't forgotten about.


AND where the heck is GLITCH????


Hey Glitch, if you're out there, post a "hello".

vulcantouch
08-26-2003, 11:34 PM
. . .i would hope he ain't lost interest in us now that the potential to make $$$ off us is about tapped :o

gsj: "is this thing on? *tap* *tap*"
-hey man, that's My line (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=228136&postcount=210) ;) the truth is i just been takin my time Enjoyin them 3 protos too much to git down to biz & document their minutae. so feel free to keep givin me kicks inna pants if i don't switch modes from sybarite to critic/historian fast enough for your taste; after all they Are yours ;) meanwhile, a sneak tease: i've arrived at provocative speculation about the ent-d and medfrig protos' backstory, stay tuned :)
vt

good shot jansen
08-27-2003, 06:50 AM
hee hee! i knew veddy veddy well that was your line! the greatest form of flattery is plagerism i always say :kiss: (whooops! there i go again)

actually, i noticed that glitch was on line the other day (though he didn't post anything :( ), and after seeing him lurking in the shadows, i suddenly remembered this thread, and realized as it had been some time since anyone posted to it, it was time to revive it , and bring it back from the depths of inactivity.

backstories you say :) , well bring em on!

SWAFMAN
08-27-2003, 08:40 PM
gsj: "is this thing on? *tap* *tap*"
-hey man, that's My line (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=228136&postcount=210) ;)


"My line"????? Ahem.... (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=211971&postcount=8) (note the date...)

;)

Truth be told, that line probably is about only about one day younger than the day the microphone was invented.


Just so this stays marginally on-topic, and to answer something VT asked about a week ago, I'm keeping the DS9 MM space station because I like its looks and also I may hang it as an X-mas ornament with my old Hallmark KBOP & new RomWarbird. :)

LTBasker
08-29-2003, 05:45 AM
I wonder if my Torp even remembers me :D At least I know it's been safe these past months. :cool:

Glitch
08-29-2003, 04:54 PM
Nope, I'm still around here from time to time. As you all know, there just hasn't been much MM or AF news to comment on these days. :(

We're just in the lazy days...err...months...err...year of the Micro and Action Fleet toys.

.

SWAFMAN
08-30-2003, 10:35 AM
Nope, I'm still around here from time to time. As you all know, there just hasn't been much MM or AF news to comment on these days. :(

We're just in the lazy days...err...months...err...year of the Micro and Action Fleet toys.

.


Maybe we just need you to regale us with some more of your tales from "behind the scenes" to spark some on-topic posts and get the enthusiasm re-charged?

;)

vulcantouch
08-31-2003, 03:54 PM
and don't everybody thank me at once in giving me credit that's rightly mine, for my provocative shot across glitch's bow (above) that got him to finally re-appear for the first time in over Four Months! so apologize? Me? hah! the right tool for the right job i always say, and my results speak for themselves :evil: you didn't think it was swaffy's initial query did you? no no, he just deserves credit for the tap-tap quote ;) but swaffy needn't infer depleted enthusiasm from forum inactivity, i for one dig on the mms much as Evah :cool:
vt

LTBasker
01-20-2004, 03:21 PM
Got the proto tour shipment today! After some snuggling with my Kaz Torp (thanks for taking care of it VT, looks great as ever :cool: ) I went on to view GSJ's protos.

Wow is all I have to say. The Klaestorn ship is tiiiiny! How did they ever use this as a prototype?? It's like a chip or something. :eek: The Enterprise-D is amazing as well, I think I even saw a little Picard in there. :p

But the greatest part of this is the Nebulon Medical Frigate. This thing is freaking awesome... It looks like it would be used as a movie model, I swear. It looks so fragile and yet so detailed... It's amazing what they did with this. It doesn't remind me whatsoever of the production version... It's just amazing, I was blown away when I saw it.

GSJ, you chose wisely when you bought these. Btw send me your mailing address so I'll know where to send these back to. :D

Just a question, in the box were a couple temp. tattoo things, are these goin to GSJ or are they bonuses? :cool:

Heh, just noticed your message in the box VT, yes everything arrived ok. Interesting job with the box, Dr. Frankenstein. ;) It's kinda spooky, such a plain box, that was holding at least $500 worth of MM's...intense. :sur:

good shot jansen
01-21-2004, 07:11 AM
i sent my address via pm.

did you have a chance to compare your proto bounty with the production one that i sent out on tour?

give us a comparison review of the two. as i recall, you don't have a production bounty in your collection.

vulcantouch
01-21-2004, 10:37 AM
"Interesting job with the box, Dr. Frankenstein"
what can i say, the restayou overuse use tape like i do smilies, so there was plenty i could recycle :crazed: similarly, gsj'll find a continuance of the "sarcastic packing material" gag wrapping his dc buckyroj lol

"tattoo things, are these goin to GSJ or are they bonuses?"
-whichever of you wants em most, cuz I want em Least :silly:
vt

good shot jansen
01-21-2004, 11:16 AM
gsj'll find a continuance of the "sarcastic packing material" gag wrapping his dc buckyroj lol

package ha arrived safe and sound.

what's your mailing address again vt? :p

good shot jansen
02-12-2004, 04:31 PM
consider this another kickinapants post :p

as the tour is winding down now, and i am anxiously awaitng arrival of my long departed proto's

i think we're still owed a couple of reviews, ent d, nebulon b and kalestron from vt, and bounty from ltb.

glitch, where ya been lately? we miss ya!

LTBasker
02-12-2004, 08:10 PM
Yeah sorry GSJ, I was gonna take pictures and constantly got sidetracked, as things are settling down now I gotta get the camera lighting figured out. It's been really bad in quality lately and it's driving me nuts, then I'll make some better reviews and send'em back home. :)

vulcantouch
02-13-2004, 12:56 PM
ltb: "GSJ, you chose wisely"
-i've had the same thought myself :cool:

gsj: "still owed a couple of reviews"
-brings to mind an exchange between beldar & connie conehead (aykroyd & larraine newman): "return at the predesignated time coordinates" "yeah, yeah" :cheeky:

LTBasker
02-17-2004, 11:39 AM
Just got done taking pics of'em (though they didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped) so I'll write up some reviews for'em then they'll be ready to mail back to ya, GSJ. :cool:

good shot jansen
03-12-2004, 11:30 AM
the proto-tour has winded down, and is now complete!

i received my protos back from ltb.

i hope all who participated enjoyed the show.

for those who did not get to see the protos, i'm enclosing some pics in the threads to follow

good shot jansen
03-12-2004, 11:39 AM
here are some shots of the array

good shot jansen
03-12-2004, 11:41 AM
here are some shots of the frigate

good shot jansen
03-12-2004, 11:42 AM
here's the kalestron - radically different from not only the prodo, but smaller than any other proto

good shot jansen
03-12-2004, 11:44 AM
and lastly, here is the the enterprise d

r2dee2
03-12-2004, 01:33 PM
GREAT SHOTS Good Shot :D You did a great job of getting the details of these awesome protos. I had a devil of a time trying to get clear close-ups of mine :mad: Thanks for sharing.

SWAFMAN
03-12-2004, 03:29 PM
Awesome pix GSJ. Very much appreciated by one who didn't participate in the tour.

LTBasker
03-12-2004, 03:48 PM
Very sweet pics GSJ, glad they arrived ok! Those pics alot closer than I got. :cool:

vulcantouch
06-10-2004, 11:26 PM
the configurational diffs between this proto & prodo are likely due to galoob initially intending to offer the tamarian capital ship, seen in tng ep "darmok". but as ds9 & voy took over the franchise in the mid-90s i imagine they wanted new 3-pax to reflect same. but perhaps in pre-dominion, pre-defiant ds9 seasons 1 & 2 they had trouble finding enough ships to round out a 3-pak, so they settled on the comparatively unimportant klaestron (seen only in ds9 ep "dax" ), since it was a re-dressing of the tamarian ship model, and they could simply "redress" the protoklae when converting it to production.
at the same time, my speculation re proto's unusual smaller size would seem to contradict this. since klaestron was like a courier-sized ship, one could understand if they decided to shrink its mm- as they've done w/shuttlecraft & runabout- if only as a misguided (and thankfully short-lived) notion to size mm ships relative to one another. but if klae Was originally intended to be tamarian, one would think theyd've kept it "full size" all along. cuz in this context, size matters: the proto's smaller size lacks the heft to convey comparable capital ship status when squaring off with, say, the ent-d mm. and given the high degree of thought galoob designers put into the scifi mm line as a whole one would think they'd realize this right off. but then, maybe they didn't :Ponder:
the proto's most enviable superiority, aside from the stunning sharpness, is the detail on the three center metallic-blue necks- it's more varied & dimensional than on the prodo :) other diffs, moving front-to-back down the center and then out to the sides (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7860):
-the trapezoids on the top & bottom of the proto's nose are divided into 14 sections rather than the prodo's 5
-proto has a small raised rectangle between the circular details on the top and bottom of the central module
-the three painted rectangles on the top & bottom of the proto's rear module are divided into 8 sections rather than prodo's 5
-the top-forward edge of proto's forward lateral strut has a notch on each side (left and right)
-most details on proto nacelles and lateral struts are etched, rather than raised as on the prodo
-proto has a few additional details on the nacelle "nosecone" tips (which are redeployed vertically as fins in the prodo configuration, which eliminates the opportunity to depict these details)
-details which could only be separately fabricated and then adhered are found on the nacelle rear nosecones' sides
-the proto nacelles' forward central detail strips are divided into 7 sections rather than the prodo's 4; also, the divisions become smaller towards the stern
-the forward nacelles' strips of "escape pod"-style squares number 10 rather than prodo's 9
-the nacelles' outer "escape pod" strips each have 2 raised squares; counting forward to back, their positions within their groupings are 7 & 9, and 3 & 5 :)
-in the wings' darker-blue parallelograms (where the alien insignia are printed), proto is etched with all-parallel lines instead of the irregularized, broken pattern seen on the prodo
-proto has less detail on the wings' sidemost edges and, unlike the prodo, no rows of squares on outer top or bottom of same edges
thanx again to gsj & other prototour participants for the opportunity to view & document protoklae minutae :)
vt

darthcarlos
06-11-2004, 01:24 AM
Hi, Guys

Haven't posted in a while. VT, that little ship is awesome! I just bought one of these Klaestrom protos from someone on e-Bay. I think I scored, I only paid a little over $20.00 dollars. The detail is superior to the production piece.

Later

Darth Carlos

vulcantouch
06-14-2004, 09:58 PM
-yeah i Think you did :cool: wow, wonder what else seller might have; know how to get in touch w/him? bjr'd Love me to get him a jemhadar proto for anywhere Near that price :greedy:
meanwhile, remember the xtra ep1 mm pax 11, 12 & 13 you sent me a coupla years ago? i've hung on to em to see what one of us might need that they might fetch in trade. but no takers and it's startin to feel ridiculous holdin onto perfectly-good toyz this long when someone could be diggin em, so w/your blessing i'll be sending jt the repcruiser from pak 11, since it's the only sw mm ship he still needs & he don't care about the figs :)
vt

Glitch
06-18-2004, 03:32 PM
Good times!

I'm glad to see that the tour came to successful end. :) that was VERY cool, and trusting, of you guys to subject these things to the men and women of the USPS.

I just wish there was more to comment these days on AF and MM. :(



Carlos,

That's an AMAZING score! If I had seen that, we would have been bidding against each other. :)

LTBasker
06-18-2004, 07:35 PM
Glitch and Baal sightings in the same week :eek:

There would be more talkies on AF and MMs, but theres just not alot to spark comotion. Maybe if someone were able to 'acquire' for us detailed blueprints on ways leading to Hasbro's president's office..... >_>

shinakuma43
06-18-2004, 08:47 PM
Ok, you get the blueprints to the President of Hasbro's Office. All I want is access to wherever they have the Prototypes of the unproduced AF ships and I'll be happy : )

Later,
S43

SWAFMAN
06-21-2004, 02:05 PM
While you're at it, how 'bout blueprints, and preferrably keys, to the Code 3 warehouse.....

;)

While there may not be any AF or AF scale offerings lately, at least there are some companies (Code 3, Futura,...) releasing SWag.

Saw 2 MM playsets for about $19.95 each (Vader's Lightsaber and one other ?Endor? maybe) at a tourist trap store this weekend. First SWMM/AF I've seen on a shelf in a while. I hope it rots there at those prices!