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View Full Version : So was Dooku gonna kill Obi and Anakin or what?



Fulit
12-13-2002, 02:00 PM
After he defeats Anakin, Dooku de-ignites (?) his lightsaber and stands there for a second before sensing Yoda and turning around. Why wasn't he on his way over to chop them up? He certainly intended to cleave Obi-Wan, before Anakin jumped in the way.

stillakid
12-13-2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Fulit
After he defeats Anakin, Dooku de-ignites (?) his lightsaber and stands there for a second before sensing Yoda and turning around. Why wasn't he on his way over to chop them up? He certainly intended to cleave Obi-Wan, before Anakin jumped in the way.

You're right! I hadn't really noticed that. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

I can hardly wait for the twisty answers to this one...

Beast
12-13-2002, 03:43 PM
Remeber that Palpatine/Sidious has been keeping a close eye on Anakin. Palpatine has been mentoring him, being someone that Anakin can talk to about things. He's likely told Dooku to ensure that no harm comes to Anakin. That's why Dooku looks disapointed at cutting his arm off. Here he's been hearing how this boy is supposed to be the future, and he's so easily defeated.

As for Obi-Wan, well Dooku does still have respect for Qui-Gon's memory. That's why he tried to get him to join him. He realized though, that killing him might end up being necissary, after he refused to join. Not to mention, there was no future chance of him joining, after seeing his true side be revealed in the arena.

Let's also remember, that Dooku just had a long duel with 2 different people. Maybe he wanted to take a breather. Obi-Wan was incapacitaed and Anakin was unconscious/ in shock. Why worry about two people that are no longer a threat. Dooku is a noble villian, not a cold blooded killer.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

QLD
12-13-2002, 04:01 PM
Maybe he was going to do the thing that ALL villians in movies do......

and explain their entire evil plan, attach them a giant sundial, which when the sun focused on it at high noon, would cause the light to burn through a rope, which is suspending an axe over their heads! :eek:

But that darn Yoda had to go and foil everything!!!

stillakid
12-13-2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Remeber that Palpatine/Sidious has been keeping a close eye on Anakin. Palpatine has been mentoring him, being someone that Anakin can talk to about things. He's likely told Dooku to ensure that no harm comes to Anakin. That's why Dooku looks disapointed at cutting his arm off. Here he's been hearing how this boy is supposed to be the future, and he's so easily defeated.



I had briefly considered this angle, but thought better of it in terms of Palpatine's "big picture." Being a Sith and all, it would behoove Palpatine to NOT let Dooku know that he has interest in Anakin. Afterall, Dooku is just one of the many pawns in Palpatine's plan. Once the wheels of the Clone War have been set into motion, there is no need for Dooku any more.

I predict that in Episode III, we'll see Dooku make a play for the throne which will give Palpatine the excuse to send Anakin off to hunt the would-be new Sith lord. If Dooku is already aware of Anakin's potential and Palpatine's true intentions for the boy, then Dooku has every reason to fear for his life during AOTC and would have little reason to continue being Palpatine's patsy.

Fulit
12-13-2002, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
Maybe he was going to do the thing that ALL villians in movies do......

and explain their entire evil plan, attach them a giant sundial, which when the sun focused on it at high noon, would cause the light to burn through a rope, which is suspending an axe over their heads! :eek:

But that darn Yoda had to go and foil everything!!!

LOL! Plus, what's with the big fancy saber-twirling before he strikes? He knows you're a good swordsman, just dissect him already!

mini-rock
12-14-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Remeber that Palpatine/Sidious has been keeping a close eye on Anakin. Palpatine has been mentoring him, being someone that Anakin can talk to about things. He's likely told Dooku to ensure that no harm comes to Anakin. That's why Dooku looks disapointed at cutting his arm off. Here he's been hearing how this boy is supposed to be the future, and he's so easily defeated.

As for Obi-Wan, well Dooku does still have respect for Qui-Gon's memory. That's why he tried to get him to join him. He realized though, that killing him might end up being necissary, after he refused to join. Not to mention, there was no future chance of him joining, after seeing his true side be revealed in the arena.

Let's also remember, that Dooku just had a long duel with 2 different people. Maybe he wanted to take a breather. Obi-Wan was incapacitaed and Anakin was unconscious/ in shock. Why worry about two people that are no longer a threat. Dooku is a noble villian, not a cold blooded killer.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

My thoughts exactly.:)

Jedi Learner
12-14-2002, 03:32 PM
I agree with that, too. The look on Dooku's face after he chops off Anakin's arm is mixed with weariness and (in my opinion) regret. It seems that his old Jedi nobility hasn't been driven from him fully. :cool:

TheJediCharles
12-16-2002, 10:09 AM
While Sidious might be monitoring Anakin from a distance he would not be so dumb as to instruct Dooku to not kill him as a possible candidate as a Sith. Why would Sidious essentially let Dooku know who is his most likely replacement? Also, why wouldn't Dooku if he did know make SURE he killed Anakin so he'd not have a chance to do the same to him to get his position. That whole notion is not only false, it doesn't even hold water.

On that subject, FAR too much credit for every potential for treatchery is being misdirected towards Sidous/Palpatine. We've just been amazed to see how capable he's been from time to time that some of us just can't help but turn every compass towards him as if there wasn't such a thing as evil in that whole galaxy before he was born. Lucas is a master at not only great writing, and weaving an interesting web, and subtile linking from this to that, but the urge to link EVERYTHING is getting a bit overblown, especially when it comes to making it look like Palpatine does everything to Anakin as if Anakin isn't in control of his own actions. That's not only false and not intended, but it's also totally missing the point about what Anakin's story is meant to convey as a lesson to learn; the lesson isn't "don't let people control you," it's "control yourself."

But, on the question at hand, too much is being read into that moment. It's just a shot to establish Christopher Lee's expression as he notices Yoda walk into the room. Nothing more. If Yoda hadn't showed up, he was 1 second away from either stepping forward to whack them or just get on his ship and escape as he was attempting to do from the start, whatever suited his fancy.

Chiesa
12-16-2002, 12:38 PM
Perhaps like what Ki Adi has said, "he is a political idealist, not a murderer."

I do not think that he really wanted to kill Obi Wan, if not he wouldn't have just grazed him with his sabre or else Obi Wan would have joined the ranks of those whose arms got chopped!

scruffziller
12-17-2002, 09:17 AM
Ditto "stillakid":)

Arrogant Arse
12-17-2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
Maybe he was going to do the thing that ALL villians in movies do......

and explain their entire evil plan, attach them a giant sundial, which when the sun focused on it at high noon, would cause the light to burn through a rope, which is suspending an axe over their heads! :eek:

But that darn Yoda had to go and foil everything!!!

Would the sun's burning then also drop them into a big tank filled with sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads?

LOL

:D

SW_Loyalist
12-18-2002, 09:42 PM
Perhaps like what Ki Adi has said, "he is a political idealist, not a murderer."

And perhaps not. Not many of his presumptions about the Sith have proven true. Extinct?

I do not think that he really wanted to kill Obi Wan, if not he wouldn't have just grazed him with his sabre or else Obi Wan would have joined the ranks of those whose arms got chopped!

And perhaps he wanted to show off too. Obi-Wan's limbs not being severed has less to do with any possible hesitation on Dooku's part and far more to do with his character being basicly importal since he must live intact to be in Episode IV...and without prothesis' since his entire body disappeared. In a literary sense, Lucas had his hands tied with Obi-Wan and Anakin not being able to be killled by Dooku since his films are out of chronological order.

Any injection that Dooku in any way didn't prefer them dead is fabricated and false. He was preoccupied with escape, not mercy. But that's not that he didn't like being a show off too.

TheDarthVader
12-22-2002, 09:56 PM
Remember the "insight" that Palpatine has and, if Dooku is in good association with Palpatine, perhaps he forsaw Kenobi failing as Anakin's teacher. "I thought I could train him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong." And that is why Kenobi had to sacrifice himself in ANH...so that he could not fail with Luke also but so that Yoda could be the only one left to train him. I think Dooku would not have killed Kenobi or Anakin. Just my opinion.

Brian

TheJediCharles
12-23-2002, 08:01 AM
I'm sorry Brian but that doesn't make any sense. In every one of your examples you're taking the far less likely and promoting it to the highly possible, even going so far as having to put on blinders to what is actually openly presented as what is clearly the more likely event and what is actually going on. If Palpatine could see as much as you're suggesting so he could see his becoming evil then why couldn't he see his turning good again too? It's hard to prove one without explaining the other. Heck, Vader was mere hours away from turning good again and Palaptine couldn't see it. I do not buy the whole notion that Palpatine could see him becoming his apprentice that early on. Oh, of course he could see him as a prime candidate because of how Anakin had the right stuff, but not that he could 'see' it.

Also, even IF Palpatine COULD see it, the LAST person he'd tell it to would be Dooku. Would you tell your current girlfriend who you plan on making your next? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And even if Palpatine was stupid enough to do THAT then the LAST thing Dooku would do is NOT kill Anakin as being his likely rival under Palpatine. Dooku would know better than anyone that it would be a kill-or-be-killed situation, which is why he did NOT know.

Also, if Dooku could see Obi-Wan's future like you suggest, he would not have tried to turn him on Geonosis. Why would he try to do that if he saw some other future for Obi-Wan? Again, doesn't make sense.

Your theories are totally littered with holes. I'd suggest you accept more of what you actually SEE is going on instead of digging four, five, or six layers deep in quirky alternative meanings that most clearly are not really there to be picked up on.

They really, really aren't.

Darkross
12-23-2002, 10:47 AM
I think that Dooku was going to kill Obi-Wan...but obiviously didn't intend to kill Anakin...that's why he only cut off his arm...when in effect he could easily have kill Anakin. And what's with Anakin switching from a two-handed grasp on his lightsaber...to a one-handed grasp right before Dooku slices off his arm? Only when Anakin has two lightsabers...does he use only one hand on each (obviously)...and it appears to me that he did all of a sudden decide to use the one-handed approach...since all previous engagements he used the two-handed grasp. I know that he had to switch to one-handed so Dooku could easily slice off his arm...but at least they could have make it less noticeable like in ESB...when Luke was holding onto the railing with one hand and lightsaber in other (his attention was divided)...unlike Anakin.

TheJediCharles
12-23-2002, 01:24 PM
I think that Dooku was going to kill Obi-Wan...but obiviously didn't intend to kill Anakin...that's why he only cut off his arm...when in effect he could easily have kill Anakin.

How is that obvious? He incapacitated both of them and couldn't have got around to killing either before someone came to the rescue (Anakin saved Obi-Wan and Yoda saved them both).

How is Obi-Wan's loss to Dooku so different than Anakin's?

*I don't even know where this stuff comes from, to say nothing about what is supposedly obvious about it*

TheDarthVader
12-23-2002, 04:38 PM
quote: "Also, if Dooku could see Obi-Wan's future like you suggest, he would not have tried to turn him on Geonosis. Why would he try to do that if he saw some other future for Obi-Wan? Again, doesn't make sense."

Your points are well taken but of course it doesn't make sense. You think Dooku REALLY wanted to recruit Kenobi? You must not be thinking this through...remember what Dooku also said, "Join me Obi-Wan and together we can destroy the Sith." You believe Dooku meant that?????? DOOKU IS A SITH!! USING SITH POWERS !! He's gonna kill himself? I would appreciate it if you could explain that.

Brian

TheJediCharles
12-23-2002, 04:49 PM
Brian,

I would appreciate it if you could explain that.

Well, I suppose you're going to prefer poking holes in my statements in preference of substantiating your own. Oh well. I can live with that.

Dooku was using the same thing every Sith apparently uses in recruiting an apprenctice. Complete and utter deception. Vader told Luke the only way to beat him was to use his hatred. Was THAT TRUE? No. Palpatine/Sidious is obviously using the same truth-twisting to earn Anakin. They don't get Sith by laying all the truth out on the table. All of those SIth knew their opponents were more clever than that and had to attempt to make it look like joining them was part of their pre-existing goals. Only after their apprentice is well within their sphere of influence and fed them a steady diet of lusting for power do they then begin to open themselves up to who they now are, but then don't care.

Now, since you're not going to address the questions I had to you, excuse me while I get an answer to my questions from Darkross... unless you change your mind and would like to stand behind what you claim too.

Jaff
01-05-2003, 02:10 AM
I think Dooku really has a semi-concious. Sith take enjoyment in defeating their foes. In the arena Dooku does not seem to enjoy any of the jedi deaths. In fact he offers them a chance to surrender, which no real sith would do. Then when he's about to kill Obi-wan he shows no joy. My assumption is that Dooku feels like he is trying to actually save the republic in his own way. He's playing against Sidious. Why would he name him to obi-wan if he is supposed to serve him. In fact no one knows who sideous is. dooku put a target near sideous. Dooku doesn't really know that he's being played by palpatine.