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Fulit
12-20-2002, 02:24 PM
People that always hated Jar Jar, (For the sake of argument, I'm on neither side), are you happy that GL essentially made Jar Jar the unwitting scapegoat for the SW galaxy's problems, or would you rather he have,

#1. Gone back to Naboo and done something unconcerned with E2.

#2. Gone back to Naboo and become Boss Binks, and, in an attempt at helpfulness, sent 500,000 Gungans to slaughter at the Battle of Geonosis, providing Gungan haters with such memorable lines as "Dissen hurten", and "Owchie!"

#3. Gone back to Naboo and opened a Gooberfish restaurant

#4. Followed Obi-Wan around the entire time in E2, being that his life debt to Qui-Gon had been, well, unfulfilled, and ultimately found himself zapped in the arse with Force Lightning, consideration of Count Dooku.

#5. Insert alternate fate here

Admittedly, I have a strange obsession with things that bother me. Take Jar Jar, for instance. As much as I wish he never existed, part of me would like to know what could've been. What do you wish had happened to J.J. Binks? Please be creative.

Dar Basra
12-20-2002, 02:32 PM
#5. Learns the ways of the Force, and becomes a Jedi like his father.

JediTricks
12-20-2002, 02:56 PM
He should have been the representative on Naboo, not on Coruscant. He should have been one of the people sitting around with Queen Jamilla.

TheJediCharles
12-20-2002, 02:58 PM
I just wish that people who dislike Jar Jar could just get past it. They don't have to like him, nor do they have to announce it on a semi-daily basis,... just get past it and enjoy the parts of the saga they do like.

But, I guess some of us are better at accentuating the positive than others... or at least more willing to.

The Overlord Returns
12-20-2002, 03:25 PM
I was actually incredibly ticked at what I saw as fan pandering by lucas in what he did to Jar jar. I agree with JT, he should have been relegated to a minor role along side Sio Bibble.......

TheJediCharles
12-20-2002, 03:56 PM
But why?

Can you think of anyone more fitting of being taken advantage of? The blissfully ignorant, the hopeless optimist, the soft-hearted... there is NOT a better character to commit the biggest blunder in the saga... no character more likely to be targeted as it's puppet.

I think it's creative genious on Lucas' part. Disagree if you like, only Jar-Jar bashers could be so cynical and pompous as to think it was meant for them alone.

(...and no he should not have been back with Queen Jamilla on Naboo because 1. they were not Senators and 2. he doesn't represent the same thing Padme does; he represents the Gungans on Naboo. He has his own vote but was given temporary representative authority of ALL of Naboo until Padme could return. Get it?)

Fulit
12-20-2002, 05:06 PM
to Jedi Charles...

<<imitating Kinison in "Back to School".........."Good answer..., good answer. I like the way you think.">>

stillakid
12-20-2002, 05:26 PM
Jar Jar should not have lived past the end of TPM.


The motivation that allowed him to join the story in the first place was his life-debt to Qui Gon.

As written, Jar Jar did not live up to his promise and abandoned his "duty" when the glory of military promotion presented itself.

Instead, what should have happened was that Jar Jar should have gone with the primary heroes into the Palace. At some point in there, he should have thrown himself in the path of the Destroyer Droids so that the rest of the group could continue.

This would have
A) fulfilled his obligation as set up earlier in the film,
B) given the character something to actually contribute to the plot besides antics and hijinx,
and C) made the audience happy that he was dead and that it was done in the context of the story.

Lman316
12-20-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
Jar Jar should not have lived past the end of TPM.


The motivation that allowed him to join the story in the first place was his life-debt to Qui Gon.

As written, Jar Jar did not live up to his promise and abandoned his "duty" when the glory of military promotion presented itself.

Instead, what should have happened was that Jar Jar should have gone with the primary heroes into the Palace. At some point in there, he should have thrown himself in the path of the Destroyer Droids so that the rest of the group could continue.

This would have
A) fulfilled his obligation as set up earlier in the film,
B) given the character something to actually contribute to the plot besides antics and hijinx,
and C) made the audience happy that he was dead and that it was done in the context of the story.

Yeah, but let's face it: no one, including Qui-Gon, took that life debt seriously. He even said, "That won't be necessary," and the only reason he brought it up in Otah Gunga was because he didn't want to leave Jar Jar to be executed (that is what Boss Nass meant, right? :p). He felt sorry for him, because it was Obi and Qui's fault that Jar Jar had even gone back after being banished. How could Qui just "throw him to the wolves"? I know others would be capable of doing it, but they're Jedi. They hold a higher standard :D.

But I like Jar Jar, always have. He was comic relief, albeit annoying relief sometimes. He's stupid...that's what he's supposed to be, and there are enough stupid people in the world - many of which offer nothing to the story of our lives - so why can't the Star Wars universe have a complete and total idiot, too? At least Star Wars is just a movie and entertainment...

End...

mini-rock
12-20-2002, 07:36 PM
I like Jar Jar and thought he served his purpose in TPM, but shoulda had a larger role in AOTC. I think it was great what GL did with him in AOTC, but thought he should have had more screen time.:D

Beast
12-20-2002, 08:16 PM
*Hands all the Jar Jar haters a stick*

I'm sure you can easily find the dead horse you've been beating since 1999. ;) :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

QLD
12-20-2002, 09:53 PM
JAR JAR IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........


















FOR ME TO **** ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SW_Loyalist
12-20-2002, 10:57 PM
The motivation that allowed him to join the story in the first place was his life-debt to Qui Gon.

As written, Jar Jar did not live up to his promise and abandoned his "duty" when the glory of military promotion presented itself.

Several problems with your theory.

1. Qui-Gon wasn't serious in expecting Jar Jar to save his bloomin' life. He was just pulling some legalease to save Jar Jar from an obvious injustice. If you think that story element had any purpose to serve beyond that then you postured yourself up for an obvious self-tormented disappointment. It's obvious that as soon as Jar Jar was saved from being pyoonished the whole life-debt thing was dropped.

2. Entertaining how your theory fairs past being dead in the water from the start, it's obvious that when Boss Nass offered Jar Jar a military position that he also would have dropped any charges against him for past infractions, thus DOUBLEY mooting Qui-Gon's life-debt.

3. Qui-Gon is a Jedi and does not accept ownership of so much a single share of Wal-Mart so how can he claim he owns a PERSON? That was not a serious acceptance on his part.

4. In case you didn't notice, Qui-Gon died, so that ends any obligation that Jar Jar could have felt for it either.

5. Qui-Gon's duty was to the Queen and Jar Jar's was to his people to whom he's no longer at odds with. If Jar Jar was to bring anything up about that life debt Qui-Gon, Boss Nass and anyone else with a pulse would have told him to drop it that it's over with.

Like many others, I've been subjected to the "Jar Jar must die" banter, but I must admit, that's the most pathetic attempt at not only justifing it but actually making it sound like it would have made a better movie.

If anything needs to die a justifyable death, it's the banter that Jar Jar needs to.

Pendo
12-21-2002, 06:00 AM
I hated JJB at first when TPM was first released, but he has kinda grown on me now :).

In Episode II, I agree with JT, he should have been with Queen Jamilla on Naboo (along with Boss Nass). I also think there should have been a few more Gungans in Theed to show that everything is friendly between the Humans and Gungans now. We only saw 2 Gungans in theed :(.

PENDO!

scruffziller
12-21-2002, 07:47 AM
Actually his roll in EPS 2 was perfect and I predict that when the saga is complete, he will be a charachter that will have been just as important as R2D2.

Rogue II
12-21-2002, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Pendo
I hated JJB at first when TPM was first released, but he has kinda grown on me now :).
PENDO!

Exactly. But I still don't understand how(and why) he went from being exiled to become a Bombad General.

SW_Loyalist
12-21-2002, 10:09 AM
Exactly. But I still don't understand how(and why) he went from being exiled to become a Bombad General.

1. We really don't know what his job was before he was banished. Perhaps he was in their military anyway. He did brag about their grand army and he knew Captain Tarpals pretty well. Maybe he was just a bit shy of being a top-ranking military officer anyway.

2. His accomplishments in bringing a sort of cold war between the Gungans and the Naboo is not to be underestimated. That is a profound accomplishment. It was done to thank him, but he was really expected to not do any harm since he was sort of expected to be coached by Captain Tarpals anyway. It seems to me Nass probably nudged Tarpals into knowing what was expected of him on the battlefield but let Jar Jar get some glory.

3. It's hard to say how responsible a so called Bombad General really is. For all we know, he could still have ten thousand officers on the battlefield that's still his superior. It's not like he was leading the entire attack or something.

4. Maybe Boss Nass was still trying to get him killed... the big, mean oaf!

:p

stillakid
12-21-2002, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by SW_Loyalist

Several problems with your theory.

1. Qui-Gon wasn't serious in expecting Jar Jar to save his bloomin' life. He was just pulling some legalease to save Jar Jar from an obvious injustice. If you think that story element had any purpose to serve beyond that then you postured yourself up for an obvious self-tormented disappointment. It's obvious that as soon as Jar Jar was saved from being pyoonished the whole life-debt thing was dropped.

That's your interpretation. I say he was very serious. They needed help to get to the other side of the planet and Jar Jar was the best option at that point. The life-debt thing was dropped because of poor writing by George, not because of any true story purpose. If a writer introduces a gun in a drawer in the first act of his story, the reader has every reason to expect it to play a continued role throughout the story, otherwise, why bring it up? It's bad writing to just drop it as if it never happened.


Originally posted by SW_Loyalist

2. Entertaining how your theory fairs past being dead in the water from the start, it's obvious that when Boss Nass offered Jar Jar a military position that he also would have dropped any charges against him for past infractions, thus DOUBLEY mooting Qui-Gon's life-debt.

Your funny! :) "dead in the water" Hardly. Anyway....whose "life-debt" rules are you following anyway? Admittedly I haven't read up on the latest statutes in Life-Debt law, but I assumed that a life-debt was independent from anything else. You're suggesting that it is tied to his original "charges." Not at all, per the film. Qui saved his life, ergo the life-debt. Getting offered a role to lead the army should have no effect on that whatsoever.



Originally posted by SW_Loyalist

3. Qui-Gon is a Jedi and does not accept ownership of so much a single share of Wal-Mart so how can he claim he owns a PERSON? That was not a serious acceptance on his part.

How do you know? He never declines the "ownership" at any time on screen. All we see is him accepting the deal, and in fact, he brought it up. Perhaps it was a way to "free" Jar Jar, but the life-debt still remains, at least as far as Jar Jar should have been concerned. Regardless of Qui Gon's intentions, it was Jar Jar's duty to respect his own traditions and customs and carry out his debt. We know that he didn't and selfishly accepted a military position when he should have been with Qui Gon.


Originally posted by SW_Loyalist

4. In case you didn't notice, Qui-Gon died, so that ends any obligation that Jar Jar could have felt for it either.

Yeah, I noticed, but that has nothing to do with any of this. Jar Jar's duty, and martyrdom, as I described comes before Qui Gon's death. You've again failed to make a valid point.


Originally posted by SW_Loyalist

5. Qui-Gon's duty was to the Queen and Jar Jar's was to his people to whom he's no longer at odds with. If Jar Jar was to bring anything up about that life debt Qui-Gon, Boss Nass and anyone else with a pulse would have told him to drop it that it's over with.
Jar Jar's duty was to Qui Gon when his life was saved. So your first statement is dead wrong. Your second statement here assumes that Qui Gon and Boss Nass both didn't take it seriously. You could make a case for Qui Gon not taking it seriously, but assuming that Boss Nass wouldn't is out of line. The same way Jar Jar should be respecting the tradition, it is safe to assume that Boss Nass would too. Once again, despite Qui Gon's intentions, this is a tradition in Jar Jar's culture. One that he ignored when "gradeur" presented itself. In fact, this is the primary element of his personality that leads Palpatine to use him as the method for gaining the special powers in the Senate. Jar Jar is a selfish being, interested primarily in fortune, glory, and extreme recognition of others.


Originally posted by SW_Loyalist

Like many others, I've been subjected to the "Jar Jar must die" banter, but I must admit, that's the most pathetic attempt at not only justifing it but actually making it sound like it would have made a better movie.
Whatever it takes for you to enjoy the film, go for it! :) But relying on silly faux-arguments to prop it up should be left in the privacy of your own home.


Originally posted by SW_Loyalist

If anything needs to die a justifyable death, it's the banter that Jar Jar needs to.
For the record, I didn't mind the character. He never really bothered me to the extent that others claim to have been. My suggestion that he should have been a martyr stems from the idea that it would have actually made it a better story. Not from hate of him. :)

mini-rock
12-21-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by SW_Loyalist
The motivation that allowed him to join the story in the first place was his life-debt to Qui Gon.

As written, Jar Jar did not live up to his promise and abandoned his "duty" when the glory of military promotion presented itself.

Several problems with your theory.

1. Qui-Gon wasn't serious in expecting Jar Jar to save his bloomin' life. He was just pulling some legalease to save Jar Jar from an obvious injustice. If you think that story element had any purpose to serve beyond that then you postured yourself up for an obvious self-tormented disappointment. It's obvious that as soon as Jar Jar was saved from being pyoonished the whole life-debt thing was dropped.

2. Entertaining how your theory fairs past being dead in the water from the start, it's obvious that when Boss Nass offered Jar Jar a military position that he also would have dropped any charges against him for past infractions, thus DOUBLEY mooting Qui-Gon's life-debt.

3. Qui-Gon is a Jedi and does not accept ownership of so much a single share of Wal-Mart so how can he claim he owns a PERSON? That was not a serious acceptance on his part.

4. In case you didn't notice, Qui-Gon died, so that ends any obligation that Jar Jar could have felt for it either.

5. Qui-Gon's duty was to the Queen and Jar Jar's was to his people to whom he's no longer at odds with. If Jar Jar was to bring anything up about that life debt Qui-Gon, Boss Nass and anyone else with a pulse would have told him to drop it that it's over with.

Like many others, I've been subjected to the "Jar Jar must die" banter, but I must admit, that's the most pathetic attempt at not only justifing it but actually making it sound like it would have made a better movie.

If anything needs to die a justifyable death, it's the banter that Jar Jar needs to.

I couldn't agree with any other post more than this one. Well done.:)

SW_Loyalist
12-21-2002, 11:54 PM
Thank you mini-rock.

And no point in discussing it futher stillakid. Not only have you already made up your mind but anyone that makes it sound like they could have made any chapter of the Star Wars saga better than Lucas has already left their credibility.... dead in the water.

Good day.

Bobajames
12-22-2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
Jar Jar should not have lived past the end of TPM...
...C) made the audience happy that he was dead and that it was done in the context of the story.

Do you know how many poor little kids would have cried if that happened? :cry: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :D

Gungan Warrior
01-07-2003, 03:05 PM
Why do some of you people hate Jar Jar Binks with a passion? Even though he doesn't exist ( :cry: ) Jar Jar Binks is number 1 on the top of my list of favorite list. He opened my eyes to STAR WAR :) . So how many of you lovely people hope he returns to EPISODE 3? Don't be to harsh please!

Pendo
01-07-2003, 03:29 PM
I disliked him when i first say TPM, but he's grown on me now and I kinda like the little git :p!

The only thing I absolutley loath about him is every single pixel which went into creating the crappy CGI :mad:!

I would like to see him back for Episode III :), hopefully in a larger role than he had in Episode II.

PENDO!

wedgeA
01-23-2003, 04:55 PM
With respect to the whole life-debt issue, didn't that just mean that Jar Jar was supposed to be Qui Gon's "humble servant"? That does not necessarily imply that Jar Jar was duty-bound to sacrifice his life. All that means is that he is a humourous sidekick/ plot device/ merchandising opportunity. I have not seen TPM in awhile, but that's what I can recall.

Anyway, as for what should happen to him, I still think that he should show up in the "ultimate" version of ANH, in the Cantina scene. He should be in corner, drunk, wallowing in his misery for the role he played in the downfall of the Republic.

stillakid
01-23-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by wedgeA

Anyway, as for what should happen to him, I still think that he should show up in the "ultimate" version of ANH, in the Cantina scene. He should be in corner, drunk, wallowing in his misery for the role he played in the downfall of the Republic.

I think I did see that in that True Hollywood Stories thing about Jar Jar. I'll have to dig around on my harddrive to see if I saved a copy of that.