View Full Version : Large Ships
12-23-2002, 02:08 PM
With the new Imperial Shuttle coming soon and with already having the Gunship as well as the other larger ships, don't you feel that it's time for Hasbro to finally give all us fans the ultimate in large ships? Jabba's Sail Barge!!!
With the way figures and ships are looking lately, I really believe that the Sail Barge would be a hot item for everyone!
I would love to have this big bad boy for my collection!!!
It's time for this ship:D
12-23-2002, 02:22 PM
Yeah... but I really don't think it will be scaled to the liking of the collectors. I think the collectors, while looking for ships, are really waiting for proper Death Star in the modern line. Whoops! There.. I've gone and done it again. I've opened up a discussion on a topic we've beat into the ground! :eek:
Anyhow... it really seems like whatever is given to us... we just gripe and gripe and gripe. Never happy, the lot of us! :frus:
Teeska Mon Eebon
12-23-2002, 03:38 PM
I wouldn't mind larger ships such as your scale Jabba's Barge if they're released during the summer....
12-23-2002, 03:45 PM
To do the sail barge it would have to be done at a smaller scale. At the correct scale it would be twice as long as the royal starship. The best option for it IMO is to make it with a split right down the center so it opens up, then make the interior into rooms, the VIP viewing chamber with jabba's dias and the wall fresco and then smaller chambers such as a prison hold and armory for example. There could be clear plastic supports under the base to simulate repulsorlift floating. The sails could be starched cloth like the sails from the LEGO pirate ships, with small holes in the sails that pegs pop through to secure them to the masts which could have battle damage breakaway features that collapse the masts. The sides could have trigger activated blast off panels. A hatch from the decks below to the top deck could be included and a lesser quality deck cannon could be included that could be swapped for the Leia deluxe one if you have it but otherwise the cannon would be less detailed and smaller with just the firing missile feature. At the same time hasbro could release a skiff guard with the small cannon that clips onto the deck railings.
But it's unlikely that hasbro would even entertain ideas of making new large vehicles with sales being so conservative and retailers so reticent about taking exclusives larger than a small vehicle. The largest new vehicle has been the gunship but that only sold well because it had lots of guns and it was a military craft. Soldier themed items always sell well but a pleasure barge isn't really top of a young boys list of must haves is it. A young boy is more likely to want toys with missiles and lasers and sound effects and blast damage simulation. ones you can get 'soldiers' into. The AT-TE stands more chance of retail success than a sail barge.
But I too would love a sail barge. I have nowhere to put one but I'd probably be happy to sacrifice my Hoth display to exhibit a sail barge alongside the two skiffs I snaffled. I love the sail barge and I'll buy tatooine themed stuff first before anything else star wars. I'm actually hoping for a V-35 landspeeder before the sail barge though. The actiuon fleet version has whetted my appetite for the speeder again. Hasbro would have a guaranteed three sales if they made it. Depending on which one hasbro did I'd just buy two more to customise. There's the white and yellow one in mos Eisley rolling past the cantina, The black and maroon one from the Lars' garage in ANH and there's a blue and white one in Mos Espa as the Naboo royal yacht lands in the docking bay. If they did the Lars' version they could include a decent resculpt Uncle Owen and gain forgiveness for that angry pointing of finger pose they did for the cinema scene. And while they're at it hasbro could do that funny little skyhopper from the Lar's garage in AOTC. A funky little craft. I think in all honesty as much as I'd like a sail barge I'd prefer a lot of smaller speeders first. They're easier to play with and easier to find shelf space for. That's also probably one of the reasons hasbro hasn't attempted to make many larger ships.
12-24-2002, 05:39 AM
I totally support Hasbro making us a sailbarge - about the size of the Royal Starship.
I disagree that it's not for soldiers and army-builders - that's what the skiffguards and Gamorreans are there for - they can be alien sculpts that are cool - just in a different way than CloneTroopers. Everyone here agrees that the Gamorrean Guard was a great figure! (I'm guessing - but not without a chance of winning on that point).
I too want the Lars' Landspeeder from the garage in ANH, as well as the vehciles parked there in AOTC. I think they are perfect for low price point vehicle toys if Hasbro is looking for any for similar reasons that led to Kenner doing mini-rigs a long time ago.
The AT-TE WILL get produced. It's a must-have. They know they can soak us for a fortune for that one, and I wouldn't be surprised if it came out for $80 like the AT-AT did.
But by all means, $100 for a good sailbarge is not too much to ask! It is the last, best vehicle from ROTJ that we can possibly hope for, too.
12-24-2002, 07:31 AM
IMO, the ultimate large ship that Hasbro should produce is the Millennium Falcon. Sure they re-released that dinosaur 7 years ago (a dinosaur, I might add, that is now 25 years old), but compared to the Royal Starship and the level of quality and technology toys have reached, the Millennium Falcon desparately cries out for a more competent toy to interact with the figures. Anything less would be uncivilized.
12-24-2002, 03:10 PM
Go to rebelscum and check out the forgotten force critique of the week. Someone built a half a sail barge and nailed it to their wall. It's roughly the size people are asking for and it's just half of the thing, immagine how big the whole would be and then try to calculate the pocket money it would eat to buy the thing. Same with the Millenium falcon and the Sith infiltrator. I'm not against the large ships in any way but i do feel that it's not feasible to make them the way Hasbro does. Not to the exacting standards that collectors demand. I'd love a new version of the falcon and I'd love a sail barge but they'd just price me out and if they're going to be as expensive as the shuttle then I wouldn't be buying in a hurry. To guarantee an affordable price hasbro would downscale and lose details, but i wouldn't want that like I don't want a sandcrawler based on the tiny vintage mold. It's the struggle to find a balance that hasbro probably decided not to bother with. Screw the hassle sort of attitude.
And say hasbro did go the route of larger vehicles, where are you going to put such mighty beasts of technology? It's a push already to fit the AT-AT, upcoming shuttle. royal starship and republic gunship into a display, add in a scaled up Falcon and a Sith infiltrator and a ssail barge and a scaled up sandcrawler and you have no room for anything else.
12-24-2002, 03:13 PM
Okay... you pretty much fleshed out what I said in my first post in this thread! You're my hero. :happy:
12-24-2002, 03:53 PM
The wind beneath your wings? Sorry about that, sprouts for my tea :dead: peeuwsa!
I still say half a falcon at larger scale would be better than none at all. make the interior playset and give us a larger cockpit. the cockpit side is the most important side. I'd buy that because it serves two purposes. larger scale but not such a large bundle and a lower price point than if the made a larger whole falcon. Which is highly unlikely, incredibly unlikely. Do similar with other large vehicles and make them good quality play environments while still having all the details on the exterior. With them only being a half they'd fit right up against a wall on a shelf and take up less room. Using this process Hasbro could even do the Tantive IV. It would be pretty large, larger than the falcon. Things a re achievable if you think in a non linear fashion. Just as long as you don't think abstractly like whoever designed the theed hangar and theed generator complex playsets. They stand like a testament to how NOT to make a play environment. The ships should be partly a playset as well as being a cool rendition of the movie version. hasbro made Jango's slave-1 too small. excellent quality product with cool details but way too small. I would rather have got a bigger ship with a cargo hoild and a larger cockpit area than those silly red bombs and that blast damage thing on the back. The missiles are cool but the other things seem stupid. being able to fit figures into ships should be the primary factor not gimmicks to sell the thing. As far as I'm concerned the more gimmicks Hasbro forces into a product the less I believe they have confidence in the toyline.
You have to try to see what Hasbro considers bread and butter product: basic figures. The larger items don't sell well because people like to spend the least to gain the most. But, if hasbro were to lower the cost of the larger vehicles as a loss leader, they would leave people more money to spend on related items such as accessories or smaller vehicles and especially on figures that work with the large vehicles. Take a loss on the large items to sell more of the other stuff. Shift more units of the larger items and make a return that balances the books. make the larger items and give us some environments for the figures to work in.
Make more money by producing vehicles seen more than once in the movies with different color schemes. Repaint the vehicles and re-release them or just do a fifty fifty production run and increase the collectability factor on the vehicles.
Another option for making large vehicles is to release the most prominent half first, the half of the ship that we see the most of, then release the other half later and have the two halves click together to make a whole. Split the cost to the consumer over a longer period and produce smaller pieces that work into a large vehicle. End result is the large ship but the production of it is less cost prohibitive. since there is no absolutely huge elephant of a product to try to shift from stores. You could go further and quarter the vehicles. release one piece each quarter of the year, each quarter could be cheaper to produce and sell and could have much more detail. even pack with a figure each time. But the result is still a large ship well done.
12-24-2002, 04:47 PM
According to the Incredible Cross-Sections book, the Sith Infiltrator seats 8 and a pilot in the ball-cockpit. The 8 chairs can be adapted for comfort, or prisoner restraint (it all depends how you fasten the seatbelts).
The Sith Infiltrator vehicle I want, seats only Darth Maul and the ball-cockpit is pretty much equal with Darth Vader's TIE fighter. This ship played such a small part in the film, that it need not be made to scale, the way arguments for a Millennium Falcon playset are going.
Most of you have now seen the Rebel Blockade Runner I built for my figures (http://www.figures.com/databases/action.cgi?setup_file=sscollections2.setup&category=starwars&topic=32&post_num=1&search_and_display_db_button=yes) and this was the absolute smallest I could make it to still do a diorama of the opening battle inside (see the pictures at the link above). Due to the one-piece removeable top to access the play area, I obviously had a choice about making the ship modular or not.
I chose not to. The top half of the ship is very light weight, and in many flat boxes, multiple ships could be transported for sales (were Hasbro to make one of these). The majority of the ship (below the removeable top panel) is one-piece in my design, but could be assembled from modular components, shipped all together.
Cutting the ship into individually sold modulars would be difficult to market. The back-end in particular. I haven't found stuff to actively improve the realism back there yet (though I've taken a hiatus from looking) but the very top (on the removeable lid) and the very bottom, are not accessable in the play area. Being so large at this size, who would possibly buy them as single, separate pieces that didn't do anything? I suppose a turbo lift to different levels of 'engineering' might add to that, giving my ship 3 play levels in the rear (and then requiring the top engine-section cover being removeable to get to the play interior) - all this area could be made to look like the spot Leia hid in (though that wasn't the location on the real 4-deck, 400 passenger ship).
However, you could market sections of the ship with what?
Cockpit with Captain Antilles?
1 Drive Section with Leia and electronics to light engines?
1 Drive Section with R2 (hologram) and turbolift shaft?
Escape Pod Section with C-3PO?
1 Drive Section with Stormtrooper and turbolift?
1 hallway section with gun battery and fleet trooper?
1 hallway section with blast doors and Darth Vader?
I suppose that is possible. Still, if each section was $25, it'd take $175 to build the ship - that and Hasbro looked at my ship when I took it to Comic Con and estimated $250 if it could retail - though that was non-modularized.
You also have to take into account what will happen if unequal amounts of parts are sold. Only collectors building the ship would cough up the money - so why not sell it as one? If somebody quits after buying just a few of the sections, the other sections may never sell - and if a store's not carrying all sections at once - this seems more likely - as well as likely that others are not going to be starting "late" because they may fear they've missed out on parts they need. If the Fan Club maintained a permanent stock of these sections, it could work. This is too much trouble for retailers, I'd guess.
I don't want to knock down the idea. I drew the plans for this ship and sent them to Hasbro in 1997. They were rejected as infeasible and unmarketable pretty much. I then made more specific plans, took final measurements and investigated plastic materials and production sites. I built the thing between 1998 and 1999 - and took it to Comic Con in 1999. SirSteve helped me load and unload it, personally.
Hasbro was impressed, but the size was still too discouraging.
In 2001 Michael Fright built a Blockade Runner to scale to the figures. It required a semi-truck to transport it to a sci-fi convention and he needed to obtain building permits from his city in order to construct something that feasibly obstructed a residential street in his neighborhood. Fortunately, my ship fits in my bedroom - along almost the entire length of my queen size bed.
Maybe now Hasbro will relook at my designs, as most of the smaller ships have been produced for Classic Star Wars. These are all the ships they have left from ANY Star Wars - and I had to include Expanded Universe, too:
Large Spider Droid*
Techno Union Ship
Asst. Lars' speeders
P-HATs or whatever
Senator's flying wing
small droid carrier
Senate speaker's car
asst. Mos Espa Speeders
2 or more Pod Racers*
Rebel Hanger Pilots' transport
The sailbarge makes the most sense. I designed plans for that, but am content to wait out Hasbro until 2007-2008 to see if they don't ever get up the courage to make one. As a collector, I have an interest in the 'official one.' As an enthusiast, I could volunteer to Hasbro my vehicle designs for the blockade runner, the sailbarge, and a star destroyer I propose to one day build for myself. They'd at least all be new - and never before offered.
But you keep in mind where you're going to put these big ships.
My philosophy is this: my entire home is my Star Wars museum. I am not married and live alone, so I have a bit more freedom in that manner - but only the bathrooms are free of Star Wars - and next to my bed must be a 5-foot long blockade runner.
I won't build the star destroyer until I have a house! It would have to be in the center of my living room floor to fit anywhere else, and I'd have to walk around it to change the tape in my VCR!
(in the apartment I currently occupy).
A sailbarge would be larger than the royal starship, but smaller than my Tantive IV, (by my designs - not to true scale with the figures - Michael Fright's ship is a perfect example of how ridiculous that is (if his blockade runner is as big as a semi-truck, a star desroyer would be bigger than your school's basketball gymnasium!)
I advocate making TOYS that can hold nice dioramas and function as activity-minded playsets (ie working turbolifts, escape pods, etc. - my StarDestroyer I propose could hold 1 TIE Bomber - just 1 - in its main docking bay).
An improved Millennium Falcon IS something I'd buy if Hasbro made it, but to scale it would be the entire size of my kitchen table - which I lost to my Arena Battle anyway - but really only be used with 6 figures (the most you see on the Falcon at any one time anyway).
They could refurbish the current Falcon mold, or make one a little bit bigger with a more accurate interior layout, but the 4-seat cockpit to scale with the rest of the ship would HAVE TO make it the dimensions of my kitchen table so that the rest of the ship was in scale with its cockpit (else it would look like Playskool's Falcon).
SAILBARGE - that's enough said already!
12-24-2002, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
but only the bathrooms are free of Star Wars
Sounds like a great place for Kamino. :D
12-27-2002, 10:56 PM
I think the only thing that would keep Hasbro from selling the Falcon is the box size issue, it'll cost a lot to ship and to shelve a box that size. But Star Wars deserves a good Falcon toy. If they split the ship in half down the long axis, they could at least place one section on top of the other AND allow play access without making big ugly hatches, then it could be locked together with internal and external arms and latches. This should be the big SW toy for 2004.
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