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EricRG
01-18-2003, 08:10 PM
I imagine this has been debated here already...but who do you think is the "Chosen One" and brings balance to the Force?

Anakin or Luke?

I think Luke. Qui-gon was ALMOST right, but off by a generation.

Beast
01-18-2003, 08:13 PM
It's Anakin, according to the prophecies. And he does bring balance to the force. He chucks ole Palpy down the Central Core of the Death Star in Return of the Jedi.

And yes, it's been discussed endlessly. I'm sure there is a thread around here somewhere, if you would bothered to search. I'll pull up the links. ;) :)

Here's the best one, though it kinda turns into a crapfest of complaining about the prequels. But that's gonna happen when Stillakid pops up. ;) :D

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16035

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
01-18-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
It's Anakin, according to the prophecies. And he does bring balance to the force. He chucks ole Palpy down the Central Core of the Death Star in Return of the Jedi.

And yes, it's been discussed endlessly. I'm sure there is a thread around here somewhere, if you would bothered to search. I'll pull up the links. ;) :)

Here's the best one, though it kinda turns into a crapfest of complaining about the prequels. But that's gonna happen when Stillakid pops up. ;) :D

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16035

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Here I am! :)

Sure, it's Anakin. What the hell. Why not. :)

Just for the sake of argument, because that's what's expected of me :cool: (and at least mine are logical) , I'll suggest that no onscreen movie information has really managed to explain what this "bring balance to the Force" nonsense means. So your original question, Eric, is essentially, unanswerable until that issue is clarified (hopefully by something onscreen in Episode III).

Until that time, I suggest getting a scale (one of those old fashioned "scales-of-justice" kinds) and put various Jedi action figures on either side to see who "brings balance" the best. :D

Beast
01-18-2003, 10:12 PM
Logical? When did your arguments ever start being logical. Even Jedi Clint had to debate with you in that thread. Over instead of discussing the question of the thread, you turned into a chance to moan and complain about your hatred for the prequels.

Just look at one of your first comments in it, about Obi-Wan "never being trained by Yoda". When was that established? He was trained by Yoda, until he was of age to be taken by a mentor (Qui-Gon) to complete his training. Yoda trains all of the younglings. And don't try the ESB defense. Obi-Wan only says "Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me". Not "Yoda, the Jedi Master who was solely responsible for training me my entire life". :rolleyes: :p

What onscreen info do you require, Lucas popping up with charts and grafts to point out where everything is. The prophecies say that Anakin is the "Chosen One". He's destined to bring balance to the force. Palpatine is the one that has thrown balance out of order. Therefor, Anakin chucking his arse down the Death Star core, brought balance back to the force. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jobi
01-18-2003, 10:17 PM
well if you look at it like this:

The Jedi have a whole bunch of people and the Sith have very few. So maybe "bringing balance to the force" means slaughtering most of the Jedi will make the sides more equal or balanced. :evil:

stillakid
01-18-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Logical? When did your arguments ever start being logical.

Uh, from the get-go. But since you're so full of Lucas-can-do-no-wrong-rose-colored-glasses-worship, it's pointless to go through any discussion with you. Your standard string of silly comments barely merit this response.

So, Eric, just so there's no confusion, when Episode III arrives in theaters, I too, hope for some actual explanation about the balance of the Force issue, not just some farcical rationalizations to tide us over. :)

jobi
01-18-2003, 10:46 PM
Hey stillakid. I think Lucas is using your sig line as his motto.

Beast
01-18-2003, 10:54 PM
From the get-go, in your own deluded mind maybe. It's been pointed out time and again, you don't even consider the facts when you post. You just ignore the entire discussion, for a chance to get your swipes in at the prequels. If someone didn't know better, I swear that your actually jealous of Lucas.

I take back the comments about your name not fitting, while it doesn't fit from the standpoint of you can enjoy the movies with the same innocence as a child from when you saw the OT. But it certainly fits with your childish attitudes twords other peoples opinions.

You believe that your opinions are gold, and everyone elses are crap. Well, remeber the saying. Butts are like opinons, everyone has one and everyone thinks theirs don't stink. Of course you consider your opinons as inscribed in stone fact. :rolleyes:

As for the "farcical rationalizations" remark, go listen to the audio commentaries for E1 and E2. Maybe you might learn a thing or two about the story. And thats coming from the storyteller, not just a fan that can see beyond his love or hatred for Lucas. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

James Boba Fettfield
01-18-2003, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks

As for the "farcical rationalizations" remark, go listen to the audio commentaries for E1 and E2. Maybe you might learn a thing or two about the story. And thats coming from the storyteller, not just a fan that can see beyond his love or hatred for Lucas. :)



Thanks for saying that. Fans miss so much by not listening to those commentaries. There's a lot of things you learn just by hearing Lucas talk about it. Yeah....

EricRG
01-18-2003, 11:59 PM
Interesting debate.

I guess I have a hard time believing Anakin brings balance because he wrought so much death and destruction prior to making his single saving grace...chucking Palpatine.

I believe that it was Luke who was even responsible for Vader's decision to do the throwing. And to me, that is the essence of the "bringing of balance"...converting his "unreachably" evil father back to the good side for the momentous toss over the balcony. He brings balance to his Dad, and to the rest of the galaxy far, far away.

And like you said, Stillakid, hopefully EpIII will bring about a hint at an answer to this question...but I do not think it will.

And JJB, to what audio commentaries do you refer?

Bobajames
01-19-2003, 12:07 AM
the dvd commentaries i believe... i still like the idea of testing all the action figures to see which ones balance: then we will see!

Beast
01-19-2003, 12:10 AM
Eric, look at Yoda in E1 when their discussing the prophecy of the chosen one. He looks over and him and Mace exchange worried glances. They likely know more about what the prophecy holds for the future of the Jedi order.

And without Anakin, there would have been Luke. If Qui-Gon would have never found Anakin, Palpatine would never have been defeated. He would have had a lackey apprentice, most likely. Someone like Darth Maul, who didn't have a personal agenda. Who was just there to lick boots and follow orders.

Without the involvement of Anakin, good or bad, Palpatine would likely have never been overthrown. He's surrounded by toadies and lackies. Yes Anakin is responsible for alot of death, but in the end he balanced the force, by removing Palpatine who was throwing it out of wack in the first place.

All this is moot anyway, if I can find that one quote. It was by either Lucas or McCallum. It was confirming that the chosen one was referring to Anakin Skywalker. It could either be on StarWars.com, in an audio commentary, or perhaps in an interview somewhere else. But I recall reading/hearing it somewhere.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

EricRG
01-19-2003, 12:23 AM
True, without Anakin, there would have been no Luke. I think that is where Qui-gon was thrown off. I think we also have to consider that Qui-gon was not a "very good" Jedi master. He definitely had a touch of the dark side in him. I think that is what obscured his vision slightly. I also don't think his "spirit" went where other Jedi "spirits" go since his body didn't disappear when he died. I think that is what allowed him to "communicate" to Yoda "from the dead".

Beast
01-19-2003, 12:34 AM
I doubt that, because Anakin actually fits what we know of the prophecy. Qui-Gon was a very good Jedi Master, look at Obi-Wan's comments. If not for Qui-Gon's differing views, he would have actually been a council member.

Where is Qui-Gon's touch of the dark side established? He respects and is tolerant of races different from him. Such as with Jar Jar. Where as Obi-Wan, actually considers Jar Jar and even Anakin early on, as "pathetic lifeforms".

I can see where it could be interprited as Luke, but the main charecter that all these movies is about is Anakin Skywalker. Lucas himself has said that it's the story of Anakin and to a lesser extent his family. We see him from the beginning of his innocent life, to his stumblings during training, to his fall, and then finally to his repentance that sets everything right again. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Jedi_Master_Guyute
01-19-2003, 12:35 AM
Eh, i just thought that Anakin was supposed to balance the force; like that was the original plan (prophecy), but it got sorely skewed. Had he gone to the light side, the force would've been balanced then, but since he turned to the dark, the whole process got kinda "put on hold" i'll say. So, when he chucked ole' Palpy to his wrinkly death in Jedi, all was right with the world.

As for the Qui-Gon not "disappearing" i was always under the impression that was only doable when you knew your fate was coming to you, aka: Obi-Wans solemn defensless farewell in ANH. I also read that that trait, power or gift (whatever you wanna call it) isn't really taught to the Jedi until they learn the trick in Episode III; hence how Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan can do it later on.

Then again, that's just my observations. I could be wrong! :D

Old Fossil
01-19-2003, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by jobi
well if you look at it like this:

The Jedi have a whole bunch of people and the Sith have very few. So maybe "bringing balance to the force" means slaughtering most of the Jedi will make the sides more equal or balanced. :evil:

This makes sense to me. In the Prequels there's hundreds of Jedi and, at best, 2 Sith. That's way out of balance, isn't it?

So Anakin kills all the Jedi except two: Obi-Wan and Yoda. Opposing them are Vader/Anakin and Sidious/Palpatine. Perfect balance, thanks to Anakin. Obi-Wan dies, and Luke becomes a Jedi, leaving him and Yoda balanced against Vader and Palpatine. Then Yoda dies, leaving Luke against Vader and Palpatine; out of balance again. Then Vader renounces the dark side, and kills Palpatine. Then Vader/Anakin dies, leaving Luke as the sole remaining Jedi (though not the only being with Force powers). Out of balance, yet again.

I have a headache.

Beast
01-19-2003, 02:46 AM
But the balancing of the force, doesn't refer to how many are on each side. That was said somewhere also, and it could be on the E1 DVD. I guess I need to toss that in and watch it again. If it's not there, it was in an interview somewhere. Especially note that the chosen one, was supposedly meant to bring balance to the force. Yet the Sith had been though to be extinct. So it's not tied into the numbers on each side. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Old Fossil
01-19-2003, 03:09 AM
Is it a yin-yang thing, then? Tied more specifically to the "balance" WITHIN individuals? If so, then perhaps Luke could have been the "chosen one" if the Force was balanced within himself; that is, if he had recognized both the Light and the Dark within his own nature, and realized the part each had to play.
The living Force, perhaps, really knows no distinction between Jedi and Sith: they are all one with the Force, more or less, just different approaches.

EricRG
01-19-2003, 05:23 AM
Qui-gon is quick to anger. He only "takes" to JarJar when he saw it could get him something he needed. (Remember "The ability to speak..." may be true, but not exactly openly accepting). I actually interpret Obi-Wan's reference to Qui-gon not being on the council as another mark against him in that he SHOULD be on the Council, but somehow can't be trusted.

The main character may be Anakin, and the whole cycle about him, but that doesn't mean his SON can't be the Chosen one. IMO.