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hango fett
01-27-2003, 09:28 PM
these will be awsome. i just say the full trailer for the 2nd one and i can't wait! and terminator 3 comes out this summer! another good movie year!
h

Anakin2121
01-27-2003, 10:13 PM
Indeed it is. When Neo had the pole and fought like 100000 Agent Smiths....oh, man. I was done. :D

mini-rock
01-28-2003, 01:28 AM
Hell yeah. 2003 "The Year of The Matrix!":D

James Boba Fettfield
04-10-2003, 05:23 PM
Do you like the Matrix?

Do you want to see the new trailer a bit early?

Do you have 94.6 MB to spare on your hard drive?

EDIT-You don't need 94.6 MB anymore, other sized files have been added to their site.

If you answered yes to all of these, then head over here (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/m/matrix2.php) and download the new full trailer! My excitement cannot be expressed here.

Patient Zero
04-10-2003, 05:26 PM
Incase anyone likes (or knows) Juno Reactor, I got this from the www.metropolis-records.com website.


> Juno Reactor: Caught in the Matrix
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Philadelphia, PA, April 4

Juno Reactor recently took time off from recording their next album to score scenes for the upcoming Matrix 2: Reloaded movie to be released in theatres this May.

Juno Reactor was initially invited out to Los Angeles by the directors to provide music on one of the films key scenes, a 20 minute freeway chase.

The scene was described by Newsweek:

"The climax of Reloaded is a lengthy freeway chase that, like the original Matrix in 1999, will redefine action filmmaking and visual effects for years. The sequence may be the most audaciously conceived, thrillingly executed car chase ever filmed."

After completing this scene the directors were so impressed they asked Juno Reactor to work on a further three scenes, therefore, providing more music than any other artist. In total, three new Juno Reactor tracks ("Teahouse," "Mona Lisa Overdrive/Dante," and Juno Reactor vs. Don Davis "Burley Brawl"), as well as the classic track "Komit" will appear in the movie. These tracks feature the signature electronic sounds of Juno combined with orchestration by Ben Watkins and the film's score composer Don Davis.

The Matrix 2: Reloaded movie, however, isnít the only part of the franchise that Juno Reactor will take part in. Three Juno Reactor tracks will appear on the two CD soundtrack for the summer blockbuster: "Mona Lisa Overdrive," "Teahouse," and "Burley Brawl." The soundtrack will also contain trailers for the film, the animated companion (Animatrix), and the video game (Enter the Matrix).

Three of the Animatrix trailers will contain Juno Reactor favorites: "Conga Fury," "Guardian Angel," and "Masters of the Universe." While, the Enter the Matrix video game will include all four of the Juno Reactor tracks found on the Matrix 2: Reloaded soundtrack, plus "Badimo" and "Masters of the Universe."

Once Upon a Time in Mexico, the upcoming sequel to El Mariachi and Desperado starring Antonio Banderas, Johnny Depp, and Salma Hayek, will utilize Juno Reactorís song "Pistolero" in trailers, and as well as the title track for the film.

Not many bands can claim they can cross many musical boundaries with the ease that Juno Reactor has. Trance, techno, industrial, pop, rock, dance, and world - Juno Reactor has touched them all. Their latest release, Odyssey 1992-2002, is a celebration of their on-going achievements. Featuring the best of the best Juno Reactor tracks from all of their albums, as well as a brand new track, this digi-pac is sure to please fans and newcomers alike. It's Juno Reactor doing what they do best - pushing the music in new directions and constantly challenging the concept of what an electronic based band should be and sound.

Deoxyribonucleic
04-10-2003, 06:15 PM
there's a nice short movie or long trailer, which ever you prefer to call it, of the animatrix running in selected movies. I really enjoyed it.

http://www.intothematrix.com/

187-Maul
04-13-2003, 10:23 AM
the new trailer looks so awesome, I just watched it today for the first time (the 96 mb version) and it blew me away, I can't wait to see this movie in may (and get the figs from mcfarlane:D )

The 'Xir
04-14-2003, 05:39 PM
I'm sure this will get moved to the "other' section under Tv's and movies, but I thought it deserved the attention of a more visited thread!

HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW MATRIX (thematrix.com) TRAILER? OH MY GOD I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

I Think I have to admit this series is the Star Wars for the 2000's
only a month away!!!

The 'Xir
04-14-2003, 05:41 PM
sorry the link should work now!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-14-2003, 06:08 PM
Yeah, this link was posted in the Matrix thread in the movie forum last week :)

Yeah, it's a great trailer indeed. :D

Eternal Padawan
04-14-2003, 09:19 PM
Has anyone seen the short 8 minute movie before Dreamcatcher?
The Final Flight of the Osiris? It was made by the same chaps who did the Final Fantasy movie and sets up the upcoming Matrix sequels. it will also be released on the upcoming anime collection Animatrix DVD in a few weeks.

I haven't seen it, but I heard it is too cool for school....

Mandalorian Candidat
04-15-2003, 12:57 PM
Is anyone else disturbed by the two butt-white dreadlock twins from the trailer? Odd, very odd...

Prince Xizor
04-20-2003, 03:02 PM
My friends and I just preordered our Matrix Reloaded tickets, all 25 of them. First day, for the 6:30 showing.
We have been known to do this sort of thing for the really big fantasy sci-fi movies, Episodes I & II, Fellowship & Two Towers. We all wait in line for about 3 or 4 hours depending on the movie (I think it was 8 for Clones), and basically use up the whole back row.

Has anybody else bought Matrix tickets yet, and do anybody else get together with a ton of friends for big movies like this?

Pendo
04-20-2003, 03:10 PM
Don't think tickets are for sale for them here yet. I know Matrix is going to be big but I don't think there will be a need for me to book my tickets, my local Showcase Cinema is hardly ever packed, it wasn't even full when TPM and AOTC was released. I may order them the day before, but that's about it.

Xizor, do you get 25 of your friends to go with you, or do you sell your tickets when the showing is sold out :p?

PENDO!

Prince Xizor
04-20-2003, 08:32 PM
I ususally get all my friends to go with, but sometimes one or two of them backs out at the last sec, so I scalp those tickets in line for twice the price!:)

Jayspawn
04-20-2003, 11:52 PM
The next Martix movie is definatly going to be big, but theres no need to preorder tickets. I'll just get them opening day when I see the movie.

QLD
04-20-2003, 11:58 PM
You know, I never understand why people always want to sit in the back of the theater.

In my opinion, the best seats are usually 5-10 rows back.

Pendo
04-21-2003, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Lando In My Pants
You know, I never understand why people always want to sit in the back of the theater.

In my opinion, the best seats are usually 5-10 rows back.

I agree, somewhere where you don't have to look up at the screen, or look down, and in the very centre of the row - the best view possible :).

PENDO!

Prince Xizor
04-21-2003, 03:27 PM
The arm rests go up in the back of my theater.

And I don't have to worry about some moron kickin my seat.

RooJay
04-22-2003, 01:58 AM
I don't need tickets - I get in for free.;) :happy: :evil:

Kidhuman
04-22-2003, 09:42 AM
I didn't like the first one so no to the question at hand.

RooJay
04-23-2003, 09:37 PM
Weirdo!:p









Kidding!;) :D

Patient Zero
04-24-2003, 10:34 AM
I waited in line several hours to get tickets for Ep1 & 2 and it was a waste of time as I could have just gone the day of the show and still gotten them. So no. I will be going opening weekend, but I won't put myself out about it by waiting in line.

I am actually more excited about this then AOTC. I mean, a movie based on two of my favorite philosophical viewpoints: Taoism and Jungian psychology. I'll be there, but I just hope that I haven't built it up to much in my head like some 'other' movies. :;):

Sentinel18725
04-24-2003, 11:19 AM
I think we are going to see it when we are traveling for a college "reunion". I hope we get to go to Wehrenberg theaters. The popcorn is better.

James Boba Fettfield
05-05-2003, 12:42 AM
Forum users JarJarBinks shared this link with me to two early reviews of Reloaded. Review (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/sneak/matrix.html)

Again, thanks to JarJarBinks for the link to this page, and I felt you guys might want to read this.

Pendo
05-05-2003, 05:42 AM
3 and 3.5 out of 5. I don't think the movie is as good as everyone's expecting :(. I've seen some pretty mixed reviews around the net, I'll try and dig up some links.

PENDO!

jjreason
05-07-2003, 08:03 PM
Im pretty jazzed up about it, and getting more that way as the movie approaches. Im going in totally spoiler free, so that's nice for a change. The white twins ARE really scary looking, Rob Zombie meets Biker Scout meets the hockey players from Strange Brew. Nothing calming there.

James Boba Fettfield
05-14-2003, 11:23 AM
10:00pm-SOLD OUT (I'll be there)
10:00pm-SOLD OUT
10:45pm-SOLD OUT
10:45pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
11:30pm-SOLD OUT
12:15am-SOLD OUT
12:15am-SOLD OUT
12:15am-SOLD OUT
12:15am-SOLD OUT
12:15am-SOLD OUT
12:15am-SOLD OUT
12:15am
12:15am
12:15am
12:59am

That's what is happening tonight at my local 24 screen AMC. 21 shows already sold out for a Rated R movie. I expect those last 4 to sell out before tonight. This movie is going to be very, very big.

scruffziller
05-14-2003, 11:59 AM
I have been hearing that it isn't all that spectacular, then again I have been listening to movie goer idiots.

Hasbro'sBountyHunter
05-14-2003, 01:57 PM
I'll be going to the DC premere of the Matrix Reloaded tonight at 7PM at the Warner Theater. Just a few more hours for me! :D

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-14-2003, 02:27 PM
JBFF- ah, the sweet sweet Lennox on OSU campus. I remember when all their theaters had the Two Towers playing @midnight and after. All of them sold out and i was lucky enough to be there. Ah, let me have a moment of silence for the man who was first in our line, who was dressed up like a soldier and Gondor, and had a bellowing horn which he blew so many times i wanted to stab in his eyes. :zzz:

Anyway, got my tickets for the 10:02 pm showing at Nelsonville Movies 10 just North of Athens. Very very giddy, i must say.
Screw any mixed reviews; sci-fi movies are generally frowned upon anyway. This movie is for the fans and the fans it will please. :D

Hasbro'sBountyHunter
05-14-2003, 10:53 PM
Just got back from watching the DC premere of The Matrix Reloaded! Here's a word of advice (no it's not a spoiler), stay for the credits 'cause they'll show the trailer to the Matrix Revolutions.

James Boba Fettfield
05-15-2003, 01:50 AM
You shouldn't have said that, that's how my friend and I were separating the nerds from the casual movie goers. Ha, wow...I won't say anything about the movie. Pay attention when they're talking though, my friend looked away for a second, and I had to explain a lot of what was said to him. My only negative concern with the movie was that whole Zion celebration thing. What was that, Stomp meets the club scene with some bodies getting too close for comfort. Okay, I sleep now.

darthvyn
05-15-2003, 02:17 AM
holy crap, this movie rocked!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-15-2003, 02:19 AM
I agree. This movie was crazy nuts!! The fight scenes had me amazed the entire time. Some spots of dry and long dialogue, but i guess it's necessary. Rock on!! :D

icatch9
05-15-2003, 09:42 AM
I'm with you guys, the party sceen was way to long. I also hate to say it, but the gratuitus sex sceen was way to long too. I mean I like Trinady naked and all, but come on lets get back to the story and the action.

I didn't stay for the trailer, it was late enough as it was. Probally see it again this weekend at a normal time and wait for the end.

Cool cool movie. As it's been said a bit slow in some parts (the whole begggining (minus the opening sceens w/ Trenady). What was the point to the whole back story on LinK? Talk about cutting room floor. Oh well, awsome movie. I see it more and more like an Alice in Wounderland story than ever befor.

Porcelina
05-15-2003, 10:22 AM
for those who have seen the movie, a quick question.... what did you think of the special effects?? i've heard there not as good as the original movie, more "cartoonish" looking.... true or not? they seemed kinda crappy in the preview i saw.....

icatch9
05-15-2003, 10:41 AM
Well, they are "cartoonish". I'm glad I'm not the only one who things so. They are amazing, but you can totaly tell when they use it. It is so hard to re-creat human movement, skin tone, and texture of clothing.

The whole time he's fighting with the 1,000's of Mr. Smiths it looks like looney toons. As I said it's incredible, but at the same time no better than any other CG character. Worse on some levels becasue most other CG characters are aliens in wich we don't really know what they look like. We know what Neo looks like, so when he's CG you can tell becasue we see so much of Keanue. Again, the whole thing is cool but you can totaly tell.

As I said after the movie last night "I don't see it winning the Oscar for Speical Effects". I'll stand by that statement until Oscar night.

James Boba Fettfield
05-15-2003, 10:52 AM
Yeah, you can tell during that Burly Brawl (Smith/Neo fight) that the actors aren't real, but seriously, how else would you create a cool fight like that. I feel the effects were adequate enough to get the point across with the fight. I didn't consider it Looney Tunes level of animation, but it got the idea across, think Blade 2 fight effects.

You really can't compare the effects in question to the first movie, since the first one never really needed to do the level of human cgi that this movie did.

icatch9
05-15-2003, 11:22 AM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that the CGI was as bad as a cartoon from the 40's. I was just trying to say cartoon again with saying "cartoon". My bay :D.

I agree that it was needed becasue it's not as if there are that many people that look like Hugo Weaving :D. I'm not trying to knock the film at all, I was just reporting what I saw.

Can't wait to hear all the bashing when the Hulk come out, and that was done by the Masters (ILM). Oh well movie goers are never happy :D.

James Boba Fettfield
05-15-2003, 11:28 AM
Ha ha, I'm not worried about the Hulk. Whether it looks a little cartoony or not, no big deal to me. Like in Blade 2, you could tell it wasn't Snipes fighting in some scenes, but I felt the message of the kind of things Blade could do was conveyed accurately, so I could forgive the less than perfect cgi.

icatch9
05-15-2003, 12:00 PM
Yea, that's a good point. Part of the cool fighting sceens are all about what a character can do. It shouldn't be so important that it looks 100% real, it looks real enough. Still some people are never happy and actually expect it to look like better. I say if ILM can't make the Hulk look real than no one can. They are after all the tops of the CGI game.

Pendo
05-15-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by icatch9
Yea, that's a good point. Part of the cool fighting sceens are all about what a character can do. It shouldn't be so important that it looks 100% real, it looks real enough.

One of the things I loved about the effects of the 1st movie was the actual actors were performing most of the stunts. When you see Neo or Trinity flying in the air in slow-mo it's like "whoa, look what they can do in the Matrix" and it's so believable, you can suspend reality and believe that the Matrix is real.
Now that it's CGI the reality of those effects/stunts are taken away, and because the actors aren't performing them it's harder to let your mind go into the world of the Matrix and believe that it's real and they can really do that.

PENDO!

icatch9
05-15-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
One of the things I loved about the effects of the 1st movie was the actual actors were performing most of the stunts. When you see Neo or Trinity flying in the air in slow-mo it's like "whoa, look what they can do in the Matrix" and it's so believable, you can suspend reality and believe that the Matrix is real.
Now that it's CGI the reality of those effects/stunts are taken away, and because the actors aren't performing them it's harder to let your mind go into the world of the Matrix and believe that it's real and they can really do that.

PENDO!

Good points. It's a differnt kind of special effects. There were plunty that the real actors did. Chato, simi, ect, but the agent smith fight really took it away for me. It was cool, but detered from the high standard that Matrix has set for itself and all other movies.

wedgeA
05-15-2003, 03:13 PM
All I can say is amazing! I think it delivered on the action level, but also on an intellectual level, as well. I loved the whole theme of free will vs. predetermination and it was played out brilliantly. It was refreshing to see a summer blockbuster that actually requires the viewer to not only think, but actually concentrate.

As for the action scenes, even though they used CGI for the martial arts sequences, I still liked them, but the incredible freeway chase looked real.

Overall, highly superior to the first film and can't wait for Revolutions.

icatch9
05-15-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by wedgeA

It was refreshing to see a summer blockbuster that actually requires the viewer to not only think, but actually concentrate.

As for the action scenes, even though they used CGI for the martial arts sequences, I still liked them, but the incredible freeway chase looked real.

Overall, highly superior to the first film and can't wait for Revolutions.

Concentrate, hell I had to take notes:D. Just kidding, but it did require a lot of mind power.

YES! The freeway sceen was so very real (except when the agent jumped on the hood of the car). The whole fight sceen on the simi and the motor cycle chase was amazing.

hango fett
05-15-2003, 07:22 PM
woo! that was awsome! great CG and acting. a little hard to follow, but i managed!
h

Brainiak76
05-16-2003, 03:59 AM
yeah Reloaded was SWEET!!!!

it did make you think!! Esp when neo meet the old guy inthe chair! After about two min i wasnt really listening to that old guy!! He made my head hurt!!:D :D j/k but he was talkin awhole lotta stuff though!!

yeah some parts were a lil to cartoonish and you could totally tell! But its the matrix so i didnt expect it not to be!

I liked the twins!! i hope they have a much bigger role in revolutions!!

I wish i read this thread b4 i saw it today!! Is the trailer any good? whats in it?? I cant wait till nov!!!

lastly was neone else shocked when you saw Roy jones jr??? i was like wtf?? ah ok..:confused: :confused:

aharry
05-16-2003, 05:19 AM
I was looking up some stuff about this last film (which I enjoyed very much) when I stumbled upon this crap.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/matrix50.html

I sometimes wonder if people can really grasp the concept of fiction.

James Boba Fettfield
05-16-2003, 06:53 AM
Well, that domain name for the site should be a good indicator of what to find there.

Then again, that list thing is probably just a joke.

Pendo
05-16-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by aharry
I was looking up some stuff about this last film (which I enjoyed very much) when I stumbled upon this crap.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/matrix50.html

I sometimes wonder if people can really grasp the concept of fiction.

That is either a joke, or someone really doesn't like the movie and spent hours thinking of stupid excuses because they don't have a real excuse of their own.

PENDO!

Porcelina
05-16-2003, 11:05 AM
that article is so retarded, it made me laugh!

mostly he just rants on about how "ridiculous" and "stupid" the matrix is without justifying his argument

and when he DOES give reasons, they're either asinine or completely untrue

for example..... aaliyah DIED, so of course she was cut from the scenes... they re-cast her role to nona gaye (daughter of marvin gaye) who is also a "minority"

then when he stood in front of the movie screen and preached to the audience during the movie, he was surprised when they yelled and threw objects at him????

and he didn't know carrie-ann moss is a woman??

ah, that was too funny, though... thanks for that ;)

James Boba Fettfield
05-16-2003, 11:09 AM
Coming Soon! reports:

The dinos, webcrawlers and jedis will all be breaking a sweat when they hear the Wednesday-night preview box office figures for The Matrix Reloaded. To put it simply, the sequel smashed anything that has come before it.

Variety says the highly-anticipated sequel bowed to record grosses in late Wednesday showtimes prior to its formal opening Thursday, and first-day matinees were ringing up what executives called unprecedented numbers despite the film's R rating.

"It's become an event. The numbers I'm looking (at) on an hourly basis -- nobody has seen anything like it before," Warners distribution president Dan Fellman said. "The film is really a cultural phenomenon."

Warner Bros. won't formally report separate figures for its Wednesday night box office but instead will add those grosses into its Thursday totals, as usual.

The original Jurassic Park earned $3.1 million in first-night box office, and no film has matched that 1993 opening until now. It's believed "Reloaded" earned well more than $10 million from Wednesday night grosses alone!

The last big film to bow on a Thursday was last May's Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones, which grossed $30.1 million over its first day, including night-before totals. "Clones" then dipped about 19% in its Friday grosses and went on to tally $80 million Friday through Sunday for a four-day haul of $110.1 million.

The weekend box office for "Reloaded" may be so strong that it can even surpass the Friday-Sunday opening crown from current box office champ Spider-Man in its first three days. It's possible "Reloaded" will do so much business prior to Friday that besting Sony film's historic three-day weekend performance of $114.8 million will prove just beyond reach, however.

Meanwhile, the website for the sequel has posted a huge update with behind-the-scenes photos, costume designs, storyboards and much, much more. There's also a brand new TV spot, called "Yes", which you can download here. Thanks to 'ads' for the heads up.

Woo hoo! I know box office numbers are just that and nothing more, but it's cool to hear that this great film is going to be breaking some records. Couldn't have happened to a greater series. Yes, you heard me correctly.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-16-2003, 11:39 AM
Huh? Cypher comes back??? Ok, apparently i missed that whole scene. Granted, the guy kinda does look like Cypher, but Cypher got capped by Tank. Speaking of which, where is Tank?!? :D

Pendo
05-16-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Guyute
Huh? Cypher comes back??? Ok, apparently i missed that whole scene. Granted, the guy kinda does look like Cypher, but Cypher got capped by Tank. Speaking of which, where is Tank?!? :D

Reading the article I thought he'd revealed a spoiler about Cypher coming back, thank God it wasn't :rolleyes: (I used the word "God", but this isn't a religious thread, please don't close it ;)).

I think Tank's actor, Marcus Chong, chose not to be in the movie cause he didn't think it would be any good. They had to replace his character in the sequels.

PENDO!

James Boba Fettfield
05-16-2003, 12:02 PM
I thought that woman who is the girlfriend to Link(?) (the new operator) made a reference to Tank And Dozer and how they gave their lives, so I'm assumming he died sometime after the first one.

Deoxyribonucleic
05-16-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by aharry
I was looking up some stuff about this last film (which I enjoyed very much) when I stumbled upon this crap.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/matrix50.html

I sometimes wonder if people can really grasp the concept of fiction.

Rofl, I doubt it, especially when people have to ask where the "non-fiction" section is in a bookstore??? "Um...ma'am, it's anywhere the fiction section ISN'T!!!!!" :sur: ;)


"The first film killed 13 students at Columbine High School, the disturbed trench-coated teens imitating the pipe-bombing, shotgunning film's finale. How many troubled teens are out there Reloading with the release of the sequel?"

Oh, just stop right there!!! This is ridiculous talk and while we're at it, let's give more people more ideas! Whatta MAROON this person is!!! What's worse is he's educated, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

The Overlord Returns
05-16-2003, 01:45 PM
Umm...guys....pointless waste of time is a joke site....the dude puts ridiculous stuff like this up all the time.......

Heh...and you all fell for it.

Patient Zero
05-16-2003, 03:24 PM
Someone at work just mentioned to me that all of the cars on the highway were made by the same company. I can't remember which one though. Odd product placement.

Deoxyribonucleic
05-16-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Umm...guys....pointless waste of time is a joke site....the dude puts ridiculous stuff like this up all the time.......

Heh...and you all fell for it.

I knew that hehehe hehehhe ehheh ehe

;)

derek
05-16-2003, 03:56 PM
did any of you guys notice "cornell west" on the matrix version of their "jedi council"? for you who don't know who cornell west is, he's a "radical" african-american professor from harvard who is sometimes on political shows. :)

Brainiak76
05-16-2003, 04:37 PM
yeah i was thinking the same think bout tank! i know dozer died! but tank was still alive!!

Links girl said my brothers gave there lives for that ship or somehting like that!! But somewher along the lines of there both dead!! so i dunno!

James Boba Fettfield
05-16-2003, 04:39 PM
Jonna's got a thread at http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19378 where you can discuss some deep questions (seem deep to me) and the themes this movie presents. So, if you want to do that, the thread is there for that. If you just want to say this movie rocks, well, do it in this thread.

BlahBlahBlah
05-16-2003, 06:01 PM
About the product placement of the cars:

The cars used the most were Cadillacs. I believe Trinity and Morpheus' car was an Escalade and the Twins were using the truck. I think General Motors donated a lot of cars, too.

darthvyn
05-16-2003, 07:10 PM
actually, trinity and morpheus escaped in the CTS, and binary (the twins) were driving the escalade EXT.

most of the police were driving the new chevy impala and the old chevy caprice (the agents who took over took the caprice... they know what's under that hood... ;) )

agent smith was driving an audi A8.

chevy and cadillac are both GM corporations, so, yeah, GM got a lot of their cars in this flick.

Jayspawn
05-17-2003, 01:01 AM
Well not that I've seen the movie, here's what I think...

1. Everybody in Zion loves to rave. And is hot.

2. If you didn't see the first Matrix movie or understand it, then you WON'T get this one.

3. Talk, talk, talk. The Architect, the Oracle, and the guy who had the hot girl Persophane. They talked sooo much mumbo jumbo, hell I really didn't know what they were talking about.

4. That Neo. Man, he really can do anything. Good acting by Keanu Reeves.

5. Morpheus. The 1st movie makes Morpheus to be such a great person and leader. And in "Reloaded" he's just a captain- doesn't seem like anything special. But cool none the less. Good acting by Lawrence Fishburne.

6. Where's Tank? he survived the 1st movie? Maybe he was poisioned by that shot from Cypher.

7. Whos that kid that follows Neo around? When did Neo save him?

8. The 1st movie must have been one heck of a good experience for Neo and Trinity, they hooked up fast!

9. How cool was Hugo Weaving? Very cool! That guy is just awesome!

10. The Twins were neat.

11. Best fight scene? Personally, I'd say it was between Neo and the Agent Smiths. You know what I'm talkin about.

Brainiak76
05-17-2003, 01:30 AM
7. Whos that kid that follows Neo around? When did Neo save him?

i didnt get that either..and they didnt really explain it to much...did they? haha

aharry
05-17-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Umm...guys....pointless waste of time is a joke site....the dude puts ridiculous stuff like this up all the time.......

Heh...and you all fell for it.

After exploring the site a little bit more I figured it out. I guess I should learn how to grasp fiction. I fell for it. Whoopsie!:D

BlahBlahBlah
05-17-2003, 10:50 AM
When Morpheus is talking to either Hamann or Lock, I forget which, he says that in the last six months, they've freed more minds than they did in six years. That tells you it's been six months since they found Neo.

In those six months, they found and freed "The Kid." He's the one that follows Neo around. He looks up to him for being the one to free him, even though Neo doesn't really want to be looked up to. He even tells the Kid "You freed yourself."

So I'm betting the Kid will have a bigger role in Revolutions. Why else would they have set him up with such a part in this movie?

vulcantouch
05-17-2003, 01:44 PM
-which is only natural i guess- he's kinda the John to neo's jesus- his herald- so takes a backseat when messiah shows up. too bad cuz he's the better actor :p

"Whos that kid that follows Neo around?"
-you didn't recognize him? that's "mouse (http://us.imdb.com/Name?Doran,%20Matt)" or "skeeter" or whatever his name was from the first movie ;)
saw it wednesday night but my hump (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2216&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) of it ain't yet ready to post, blame that on our nice weather :D besides a pal offered to *****seat-ride me on his motobike to a 2nd showing tonight (and considering same's resonance w/highway chase, might just take him up on it :) ), so might wait till after that anyway :) meanwhile, you gonna be onboard for TEAtrix reloaded (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=1381&perpage=920&pagenumber=2)? :)
vt

James Boba Fettfield
05-17-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by vulcantouch
"Whos that kid that follows Neo around?"
-you didn't recognize him? that's "mouse (http://us.imdb.com/Name?Doran,%20Matt)" or "skeeter" or whatever his name was from the first movie ;)

Mouse is dead, remember his brick wall scene from the first film and being shot by the group of SWAT (or whatever police force they were) guys. Kid is a new character for the film.

vulcantouch
05-17-2003, 02:16 PM
well of Course i know that, i was just laughin bout how similar the two are. but now that you mention it, maybe mouskeeter's death only reinserted him back into matrix & here he is again, i.e. matrix's version of reincarnation? :crazed:

James Boba Fettfield
05-17-2003, 03:58 PM
Oh, sorry. Yeah, it's those crazy suing Metallica influences getting to me and the sense of humor. It's a joke, a joke. Yeah, your joking really did go over my head and I missed it.

scruffziller
05-17-2003, 10:26 PM
Yea I was defiantely listening to some movie going idiots. I like this one tons more than the first. This Matrix is for "smart" people. If you are just looking for nothing but saturated fights(not that there wasn't, they were killer cool) then you won't get the movie. This is for people who read Mary Shelly's Frankenstine instead of seeing the old black and white flix. People have been saying they didn't improve on the graphics.........no....they perfected them. Everything looked real the way that it would be real if that digital world existed and I mean that wholeheartedly.

NOW SPOILERS BELOW>>>
























I have made a determination between myself and my friends.
How was NEO able to stop the drones at the end??????


Because THEY HAVE NEVER LEFT THE MATRIX!!!!!!!!!
Zion and everything they think is the real world is nothing but another illusion. Reference to Star Trek TNG ep SHIP IN A BOTTLE.
And if you notice that when NEO is able to see things as they are in code, did you see the difference between NEO, TRINITY, MORPHEUS, etc. and that one oriental gent that tests NEO by fighting with him. His aura is gold and not really code, but NEO and the others you see as the code. I believe our heros are nothing but programs too!!!!! So what is really going on here!!!!
A Matrix civil war, a virtual reality game gone wrong, etc. etc.!!!!!??????

Can't wait till November!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-17-2003, 10:53 PM
*THIS IS A REPLY TO THE ABOVE POST, WHICH HAS SPOILERS*






Scruff- I like your thoughts on how Neo could stop the drones at the end. That thought also occured to me. Though, i like to think that Neo is powerful as he is in the real world, for that would just totally shake things up a bit. I also can't wait for November. :D

Brainiak76
05-17-2003, 11:31 PM
did anyone see the trailer at the end??? please describe!! i didnt know bout it!!

now spoilers.............







I thought that was weird also? how is it that int he real world he can emit an EMP??? He said its diff i can feel them! or something like that ..how? and the one asian guy that he saw in gold was weird!

mrmiller
05-17-2003, 11:33 PM
Just saw the movie today- and never read this thread before to stay away from soilers-

I thought it was great. A little cryptic, but that's one of the things that makes good science fiction. I think a lot of other movies hurt this one. So many other movies are using the "matrix effects" that everyone is are growing used to it, and the special effects doen't seem as revolutionary as they did the during the first movie (because it isn't). But they are flat out spectacular, and amazed me just as before. The "burly bawl" flat out rocked.

Maybe one reason I liked it so much was that I didn't buy into the hype, and was basically spoiler free. All I knew about the move is that the Machines were tunnling to Zion, and nothing else. So the whole story line was new for me. I thought the story was very good, just a little hard to follow, and I'm still a little confused about the ending. I can't wait to go see it again.

And it's just my luck in the quest to be spoiler free that I didn't read this forum before, and missed out on the trailer to Revelations. :(

Now for comments related to the thread
*Spoiler Alert*

I loved the rave scene- it was such a contrast to the "machine world." Showing how full of life and emotion human world is- primal even. It added some ballance to the structure of the machine world.

I think the kid is from a short in the Animatrix. He is just one of the many people Neo has helped remove from the Matrix in the last few months.

I think Dozer must have died from the wounds he suffered in the first movie. That's what it sounded like to me anyhow.

So is agent Smith now outside the Matrix?

The guy who was in gold was a renegade program- a program running in the matrix not detected by the matrix. I don't know- hey it's science fiction so anything can happen.

I'm thinking that Neo is now in the Matrix- while being in a coma. Is Neo really a Human, or a Program, or a Progamed Human, or what? He was created by the randomness of the code or whatever? I was kinda getting lost there at the end, but what I gathered was Neo was actually created from the randomness of the Matrix. Which is why he can manipulate it more than others.

You have to remember, all the people in the Matrix are really just like programs of themselves. Just simulations of how they see themselves and think their lives are. He is somewhere between the humans and the renegade programs. Ok- now my head hurts.

I can't wait untill the 3rd movie, and am going to have to see this one again to figure some stuff out.


=MATT=

James Boba Fettfield
05-17-2003, 11:41 PM
http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/m/matrix3.php
Go there and where it says this:
Trailer on Enter the Matrix Game, includes "Reloaded" spoilers!:
(must right-click and 'Save Target As' to download)
That's the trailer they showed after the movie.

darthvyn
05-18-2003, 12:04 AM
i don't think that's the exact same one... there's more with naobi than i remember, and some different voice overs... i don't know. may have to go see it again ;)

BlahBlahBlah
05-18-2003, 12:07 AM
Um... yeah, if that's the one my friend sent me, it's not the one after Reloaded.

The preview after the game starts with Ghost and Niobe talking, right? If so, then it's not the one after Reloaded.

James Boba Fettfield
05-18-2003, 12:21 AM
Oh, I stand corrected. I thought they were the same, since it seemed like when I was seeing the one in the theater it seemed to share some of the same scenes.

Ok, I just went back and watched that trailer, it's that rain scene with Smith/Neo they show that I guess fooled me into thinking they were the same.

darthvyn
05-18-2003, 12:43 AM
i think a lot of it was the same, just a few different shots, more stuff with niobe and a different voice over.

Eternal Padawan
05-18-2003, 08:03 AM
Well, I saw it.



And I was not impressed.

Oh there were some "good" parts in it, but on the whole, I felt let down by the new-age rhetoric and philosophizing by every single character in the film interspersed with marathon action sequences that seemed thrown in for the sake of it being a MATRIX movie. I was overcome with a sense of "Been there. Done that." Honestly, was anyone checking their watch after the first twenty minutes of that Neo/Million Smith March brouhaha? Then it felt like I was watching a DVD and somebody was "skipping" chapters on me towards the end. The Architect blathering away, saving Trinity, Neo stopping the sentinels "outside" the Matrix, being picked up...it was all very rushed. The Zion stuff was borrrring. And the dialogue there was the worst kind of B-movie overacting. Especially from Locke and Morpheus. And then there was the rave scene. In fighting and zealotry in a population of only 250,000? Let the machines take them then. The Wachowski Brothers said they wanted to make a good super hero movie, but in order to do so, they had to make the first Matrix movie to set it up. Now it looks as if they want to make a religious movie (a platform for cultdom? an alternative to scientology?) with all the cookie cutter confucionisms they were hurling. "There is no choice." Bleah. Oh well. At least Trinity zipping along on a cycle at 100 MPH against traffic got my heart racing. :)

I was thinking "Matrix within a Matrix" as well. The computer lets ZION "win" and "free" all the captives, so they can "rebuild" civilization, but it's all really in Matrix 7.0. They can never get out.

How did they do Oracle's scene? I thought she died before filming began? Is this some technical wizardry like that of Gladiator where they stuck Oliver Reed's head on another body? At first, they had her back to the camera and I thought "Oh. they're going to get out of it THAT way...but then she turned and spoke and I was like WHA???" That was as unsettling as anything else in the movie.

Hopefully the third film will make the second one make sense, or at least more interesting.

BlahBlahBlah
05-18-2003, 10:29 AM
The playground scenes with Gloria Foster were filmed before she died.

mrmiller
05-18-2003, 11:08 AM
But EP, that's what makes good science fiction. It has to make you think a little, and not just be a fantasy action movie.

I really need to see it again to try and figure it out better. Many of the things I thought I understood, I'm now confused about after reading everone elses interputation here on the fourms.... Thanks guys! :frus:

=MATT=

keith koth
05-18-2003, 01:55 PM
A matrix within a matrix. I also thought the same thing. The second matrix (the one that contains Zion) could possibly be the fail-safe defense program designed due to the anticipation of the mathmatical anomaly (a.k.a. the chosen one...a.k.a. Neo). Makes perfect sense that if the creator of the matrix knew that there was a mathmatical posibility of an anomaly, then he would have designed a matrix w/in a matrix.

Why didn't Neo kill the "Creator" when he was in that room?

Will Neo and the crew obtain their true freedom at the end of "Revolutions" or will we get an ending like...Neo wakes up in front of his computer with a message on the screen telling him to "follow the white rabbit"...."knock, knock".....

JON9000
05-19-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
Wachowski Brothers said they wanted to make a good super hero movie, but in order to do so, they had to make the first Matrix movie to set it up. Now it looks as if they want to make a religious movie (a platform for cultdom? an alternative to scientology?) with all the cookie cutter confucionisms they were hurling. "There is no choice." Bleah. Oh well. At least Trinity zipping along on a cycle at 100 MPH against traffic got my heart racing. :)


Well- yeah! Of course it is a religious film, with names like Morpheus, Trinity, Nebuchadnezzer, Neo as a messiah, the Merovingian, the Architect (for all you freemasons)... was there ever any doubt that this would be a religious film?

EP, you say the action scenes were all been there, done that, but when the film tried to ask deeper questions about what it means to be human and the difference between believing in fate and free will (a question also brought up in the first film) you balked. What do you want out of the films? Oh well, its a bummer you didn't like it, but while reserving judgment completely until the trilogy is complete, I would suggest these are the best sci fi movies since the OT. :cool:

mrmiller
05-19-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by JON9000
while reserving judgment completely until the trilogy is complete, I would suggest these are the best sci fi movies since the OT. :cool:

I agree, mainly beacuse these are true Science Fiction movies, and not just futuristic action movies. The discussions we are having about the meaning and undertones is what make a great science fiction movie. Not just the crazy stunts and action sequences (which are nice too.) I think the review in my local newspaper summed it up best, "Imagine being buckled into a first class roller coaster and having intense cosmic discussions with a best friend/spirtual advisor between the white knuckle swoops and dives."

=MATT=

RooJay
05-19-2003, 02:59 PM
I have a feeling the Architect was lying to Neo in an attempt to convince him to give up his cause. I think it was true that they did discover an anomaly in the Matrix, and that the anomaly has been Neo from the start. I believe he actually possesses superhuman abilities of some kind in the real world, and that the machines discovered this and realized that they had a major problem on their hands. I imagine that the machines are now running scared because of this and are desperatley attempting to find a solution to their unforseen problem. I'm not even certain that any can stop the machines from within the Matrix (the existence of 'backdoors' and separate programs within and outside of the Matrix could be seen as support for this) even if they managed to take down the Matrix, the machines in the real world will still exist (For those keeping score, we are supposed to see a huge battle in the real world in the next movie). The Wachowskis have stated from the beginning that their goal was to make the coolest comic book superhero movie...as opposed to a more straightforward sci-fi (Twilight Zone style, if you will, which is pretty much what this will end up being if it turns out that there is a "Matrix within the Matrix"). I think it will become clear that there is a lot more to the notion this film brings up regarding the nature of man's symbiotic relationship with machines (as discussed between Neo and Councillor Hamann), and that mankind will learn a valuable lesson at the end of the story when they discover their own level of responsibilty in the events leading to their own subjugation and the creation of the Matrix (man, what a mouthful!). For those of you who have watched certain Animatrix episodes, you may recall that artifically intelligent machines started out as being very beneficient and peaceful and that it was humanities persecution of the machines that eventually led them to rebel and succeed in conquering and enslaving the human race. The machines originally only did what they had to to survive (remember, it was we who scorched the sky. The machines only enslaved us and turned us into living batteries after we removed their only other source of power and susteance - the sun). Two sides to every conflict...

El Chuxter
05-19-2003, 03:44 PM
So what was up with Ultra Magnus not being able to open the Matrix? Was it because Hot Rod was the chosen one and he wasn't, or because the animators didn't like Robert Stack?

And did the Matrix truly light their darkest hour? Cybertron still looked pretty dark to me.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Haven't seen Matrix 2 and don't plan on it anytime soon, or I'd contribute more.

keith koth
05-19-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by RooJay
I believe he actually possesses superhuman abilities of some kind in the real world

I hope not!

The one thing that I found so fascinating about the Matrix is that it is entirely plausible...I mean...how do we know that we are not all pluged into the Matrix right now? We don't!

If Neo is given some "real world" superhuman powers (something not possible in our reality), making him significantly different from anyone else in the "desert of the real" then that totally changes my perception of the movie (but would remain consistent with the "religious" theme)...and makes me like the story less. Neo as a "super hero" in the Matrix is fine with me...but not in the "real world".

However, I am not sure I like where the movie is going if Zion is actually a Matrix w/in a Matrix (unless they find an exit from the series of Matrices by the end of Revolutions). I am so tired of movies that have ironic endings...what ever happened to the days where the good guys win and everything is resolved in the end? Now days, the irony would be in a movie that did have closure to it. Hollywood is too sequal happy...leaving everything "open-ended", so to speak, just in case it fares well at the box office...then they can make the previously unplanned sequal and profit from the original films popularity (not to imply that the Matrix sequals were not pre-planned).

IMO, the Matrix must have closure and Neo must be entirely mortal in the "desert of the real" in order for this trilogy to be great. The beauty of the Matrix movies is that one leaves the theater wondering "Am I in the Matrix?" and the feeling that you can relate to Neo and his situation (i.e. an ordinary person thrust into extraordinary circumstances)

On a side note, remember in Part one...when Morpheus tells Neo about the prophecy of "The One". Morpheus says something along the lines of "..."The One" has the ability to alter the Matrix as he sees fit..."....If Neo is "The One" and he can alter the Matrix, then why doesn't he just make the Agents disappear when they come after him? If he can, will we see him do that in Revolutions?

Eternal Padawan
05-19-2003, 05:51 PM
Tha action sequences weren't new and innovative like they were in the first film. They were just loooooonnnnnggggggggeerr. Except the freeway chase. Me likey that one.

The fight with the Oracle's guard (the Jet Li character that wasn't Jet Li)? Unnecasary.

The Neo/Smith fight? Cool, except for Smith's clumsy entrance and segue into the fight. But then it wouldn't stop.

The staircase fighting? Again, it was cool, but it just kept going and going and going and going...until it became not cool.

I dunno.

Brainiak76
05-19-2003, 05:53 PM
an ending like...Neo wakes up in front of his computer with a message on the screen telling him to "follow the white rabbit"...."knock, knock".....

i dunno if id be ******** or if id be like Ooo AH!!

actually i hope there is closure and alot of our questions are answered!! I hope its one of those movies were the good guys prevail and everything is resolved in the end!!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-20-2003, 11:21 AM
Seems our ole' pal, Tank, is suing the matrix and the producers, yadda yadda. check it out here:

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,11831,00.html?eol.tkr I dunno what to make of it. I need hte Oracle to tell me what the dilly is. ;)

aceguide
05-20-2003, 11:32 AM
I have found the annimosity towards this film a puzzling question. I believe a lot of the negative reaction is from people who are unable to understand some of the subtleties, and just wanted an action flick.

Does anyone have any other ideas as to why there is such dislike.

I personally felt it was an amazing movie, and that the premis and plot really developed into a complete package.

James Boba Fettfield
05-20-2003, 11:34 AM
Tank's Chong stood alongside Reeves' Neo, Carrie-Anne Moss' Trinity and Morpheus' Laurence Fishburne as the only humans to outlast, outplay and outwit their machine nemeses.

Stupid E!, who do they get to write up their articles? At least we know a little more about the Tank situation.

Patient Zero
05-20-2003, 01:13 PM
Fartrix....errrrr, ya!

So guess who was one of the agents in the first film...Stark from Farscape.

And in the second film, Braca (Scropius's henchman from Farscape) was the sleazy looking host in the restaurant.

Just stumbled across that one.

The Overlord Returns
05-20-2003, 01:34 PM
I'm going to see the Invisibles - Oops! - I mean, the Matrix tonight....so...I'll have some thoughts for y'all tommorrow ;)

vulcantouch
05-20-2003, 01:50 PM
. . .your mischaracterization of criticisms as simple "animosity". anyhoo, to help i found several (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=658e385b3329d3b7&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1052910901141&call_pageid=1022183557980) unfavorable (http://www.oneguysopinion.com/review.asp?ID=960) reviews (http://www.filmthreat.com/noah/reviews_display?Id=4542) you (http://ae.miami.com/entertainment/ui/miami/movie.html?id=95606&reviewId=12076) might (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/entertainment/movies/5852047.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp) enjoy (http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=44142) readin (http://www.filmsnobs.com/www/jimmyo/reloaded.htm) thru (http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/movie_reviews/article/0,1426,MCA_569_1964619,00.html), and see if you can honestly say None of their criticisms ring true :)
vt

aceguide
05-20-2003, 02:25 PM
Thanks for the reviews from the critics. They do an admirable job - being critical. Yes, lots of what they said rings true and I would tend to agree.

Maybe I should have been more specific. Both at the theater and around the 'ol water cooler I have found a lot of people who really HATED the film. Thier articulation of this feeling is limited, and seems to be they felt it lacked from the first movie.

Of course, it did. It's a sequel and can no loger be as original and when the first movie came out. I do believe that the complexities of the plot line lost a lot of people, and my ultimate point was that this was one reason I really liked it.

Thanks for the reviews. Similar to what I have reas on the whole.

darthvyn
05-20-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by vulcantouch
. . .your mischaracterization of criticisms as simple "animosity". anyhoo, to help i found several (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=658e385b3329d3b7&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1052910901141&call_pageid=1022183557980) unfavorable (http://www.oneguysopinion.com/review.asp?ID=960) reviews (http://www.filmthreat.com/noah/reviews_display?Id=4542) you (http://ae.miami.com/entertainment/ui/miami/movie.html?id=95606&reviewId=12076) might (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/entertainment/movies/5852047.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp) enjoy (http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=44142) readin (http://www.filmsnobs.com/www/jimmyo/reloaded.htm) thru (http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/movie_reviews/article/0,1426,MCA_569_1964619,00.html), and see if you can honestly say None of their criticisms ring true :)
vt


meh.

sure i can't say NONE of their criticisms ring true. but i think a lot of them don't. what are they - film critics, or philosophy professors?

once again, i feel that they are all trying to be the first to pan the new sure-fire blockbuster. "look at me, i don't like the thing that everyone else likes... that means i have integrity..."

anyway, i guess i'm just a retard for thinking about and discussing all the "pseudo-philosophy."

but millions of elvis fans can't be wrong...

preacher
05-20-2003, 10:41 PM
I like this new Matrix movie in the same way I liked Back to the Future II. Not very much.

What was bad?

The action sequences were ho-hum. The Marial arts fights' sequences were about 5 minutes too long, and repetitive.

The philosophical discussions were intrusive. Not at all smoothly integrated into the dialogue of the characters the way it was in the first Matrix. I understood the philosophical points, but again they seemed very forced into the conversations of the characters.

The overall plot was the same as the first Matrix - with the oracle substituted for the key-master or key-man or whatever he was. There really wasn't much point with the prissy french man. The return of agent smith was lame. In the first Matrix he was a killer arch-villian and in reloaded he sucks.

I didn't see what the big deal was with the freeway chase except the "collision".

What did I like?

I enjoyed the architect's perspective on what it meant to be the one. Similar payoff to Darth Vader's revelation of being Luke's father.

I liked Zion - almost exactly the way I pictured it.

The dialogue between Neo and the Head Councilor in the industrial zone was very good. A pity the rest of the dialogue between characters - where philosophy was discussed anyhow - was so terrible. The movie suffered horribly because of it.

derek
05-21-2003, 12:00 AM
If Neo is given some "real world" superhuman powers (something not possible in our reality), making him significantly different from anyone else in the "desert of the real" then that totally changes my perception of the movie (but would remain consistent with the "religious" theme)...and makes me like the story less. Neo as a "super hero" in the Matrix is fine with me...but not in the "real world

i'm banking neo will be a real world superman/christ-like figure. his supernatural ability in the matrix is an indication he is not normal, but actually "super-normal". he is special, which is why he is able to do anything in the matrix, and hopefully this will transfer to the real world as we saw in the end.

if they have any of this "matrix in a matrix/it's all a dream/game/or neo's crazy" stuff, i will be really disapointed, as that's all been done.

what i really like is the fact that when ever a new superman movie is made, superman will look so awesome flying around!!! my favorite part was when neo flew towards the screen to save trinity in that classic superman pose with one arm out in a fist/one arm back.:)

keith koth
05-21-2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by derek
i'm banking neo will be a real world superman/christ-like figure. his supernatural ability in the matrix is an indication he is not normal, but actually "super-normal". he is special, which is why he is able to do anything in the matrix, and hopefully this will transfer to the real world as we saw in the end.

I always felt like Neo's supernatural abilities within the Matrix were attributed to his densely compacted neural pathways (the thing that made him special...a.k.a. "The One"), which allowed him to think faster than the Matrix itself (sorta like the mind of an Albert Einstein or Steven Hawking on steroids). Thinking/moving faster than the Matrix would allow Neo to manipulate the fabric/programing of the Matrix before the Matrix had time to react to Neo's actions; thus giving Neo the ability to fly, dodge bullets, etc. Giving Neo powers outside the Matrix suggests he is a "Christ" type character.

The idea of making Neo a "Christ" type character does not sit well with me...mainly because I am more of an evolutionist and don't care too much for organized religion. Plus, I think it would be best to keep such religiously suggestive overtones to a minimum in a "comic book" style action movie.

Of course, since I don't want it to, the Matrix trilogy will probably end with some deeply religious message...or some sort of philosophical irony.

None the less, I loved the first two movies...if for no other reason than their thought provoking dialogue and the ground breaking special effects.

The Overlord Returns
05-21-2003, 09:48 AM
Well....ummm...yeah......so I saw Matrix 2 last night......and umm....

I'll be back later with more concise criticisms....however....to quote Luke Skywalker:

"What a piece of junk!"


Addendum:

OK, so.......Matrix 2.....hooboy..........

Let me start by saying I quite enjoyed the first film. No, I didn't have that "shock & awe" reaction that many others did, but I found it to be a good sci fi action film that was a little more intelligent than the usual hollywood fare........

....which makes M2 such a colossal dissapointment. It has become a franchise, plain and simple. The film seemed cobbled together around each and every big action scene. It's as if the director and writer plotted out what fights they wanted, and then strung together a ridiculously thin plot in order to guide Neo and crew to the next villains on their beat down list. The fights went on far too long. The agent smith melee was one of the more tedious things I've had to sit through, and the cgi was worse than anything else I have seen in a film. The effects in M2 are as bad as everyone likes to say the effects in the Prequels are.

The ofcourse we have the ludicrous attempts to add shlock hollywood sex appeal into the Matrix franchise. We finally get to zion only to discover a race of humans that are dimwitted and will knock boots the very instant bad techno/rave/trance music starts to play......

The film could have been 2 hours long, and it would have been much better. there were so many instances of directorial wankery (neo and councillor Haman; the kiss woman!) that I found it hard to believe I was watching a film directed by the W brothers.

Then there's the "depth" of the film. The content, the bargain basement philosophy. These meandering speeches and ponderings reminded me of the kind of deep garbage my friends and I spewed over cigarettes and coffee.....when we were 15. Bad dialogue spoken by actors who clearly had NO IDEA what they were talking about. It's like watching an actor attempt Shakespeare when he has no concept of what the language means.

There are so many things wrong with this film that I won't bother getting into. Everything that happened was predictable, right down to the "revelation" that Neo can now effect machines in the real world....or....is it the real world...is it a Matrix within the Matrix? Wooo...deep stuff........

And finally, we have the "shocking" return of a "dead" character. That should get us all running right into the theatre come november....all chanting in unison..."we are here because we are supposed to be"......

RooJay
05-21-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by derek
i'm banking neo will be a real world superman/christ-like figure. his supernatural ability in the matrix is an indication he is not normal, but actually "super-normal". he is special, which is why he is able to do anything in the matrix, and hopefully this will transfer to the real world as we saw in the end.

if they have any of this "matrix in a matrix/it's all a dream/game/or neo's crazy" stuff, i will be really disapointed, as that's all been done.

what i really like is the fact that when ever a new superman movie is made, superman will look so awesome flying around!!! my favorite part was when neo flew towards the screen to save trinity in that classic superman pose with one arm out in a fist/one arm back.:)

So at least someone agrees with me.:happy:

As far as why there are so many people who 'hated' this movie (and does it really matter anyway when a movie that is supposedly this 'hated' still manages to rake in millions, and most if not all of the people who 'hate' it will still show up at the theater for Matrix 3?) it pretty much all comes down to the old notion that you can't please everybody. Everyone has very personal tastes (especially film critics) and what I might find enjoyable will almost certainly not have the same effect on at least somebody else.
I think more simply it's due to the fact that so many people really dug the first one and there was almost no way the sequels could live up to the standard, and a lot of people went in with a lot of preconceived notions of what the story is really supposed to be and how things should have played out and were disappointed when things didn't match up with their expectations or understanding of what should have come next in their minds.
Personally, I loved the movie. It was everything I'd hoped for and more (though certainly not without it's shortcomings, but no film is ever perfect), and now I certainly cannot wait to see the next chapter!
I try very hard not to resent the notion that my appreciation of something that someone else dislikes somehow makes me less intelligent, discerning, and somehow just another one of the mindless masses. Honestly though, it all boils down to the fact that no ones opinions in this world are worth more than each one's own.

Porcelina
05-22-2003, 09:54 AM
preacher and tor.... dudes said it all, so "ditto"... i'm soooo glad i went to see it on a half price tuesday and only wasted 8 bucks... however, money aside, i would still like to get that 3 hours of my life back! :mad:

evenflow
05-22-2003, 12:59 PM
I thought the movie was terrible. It was boring in pointless. X-Men 2 was a much better movie. I am so glad i went to a matinee show and did not pay full price.


Originally posted by RooJay
Does it really matter anyway when a movie that is supposedly this 'hated' still manages to rake in millions, and most if not all of the people who 'hate' it will still show up at the theater for Matrix 3?

Well, i for one will not be going to the theaters so see Matrix 3. I will wait til it comes out on video becaus eo fmy dissapointment in this one.

The Overlord Returns
05-22-2003, 01:13 PM
Well....If I don't go see it...I won't have any right to crap all over it...so, alas ...I have to see it........

Perhaps I'll sneak in to a showing ;)

Patient Zero
05-22-2003, 01:15 PM
So for those who disliked it, why? I haven't heard any actual answers just that it was 'dumb' or 'lame'. What did it have or not have that you were hoping to see? I know that the dance sceen was unnessesarily long and some of the CGI human characters were just not believable, but I don't see it as commiting any crimes that EP 1 & 2 haven't. Honestly interested.

The Overlord Returns
05-22-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by The Ghost of Jonna
So for those who disliked it, why? I haven't heard any actual answers just that it was 'dumb' or 'lame'. What did it have or not have that you were hoping to see? I know that the dance sceen was unnessesarily long and some of the CGI human characters were just not believable, but I don't see it as commiting any crimes that EP 1 & 2 haven't. Honestly interested.

Just go and read my first post......I'm not going into it all again. i found it to be a poorly acted, written and directed mess. The story was unengaging, the attempts at over our head philosophy were laughable. It was a 3 hour music video.

RooJay
05-22-2003, 01:19 PM
originally posted by evenflow
Well, i for one will not be going to the theaters so see Matrix 3. I will wait til it comes out on video becaus eo fmy dissapointment in this one.

And yet by your own admission you still plan on at least renting the video. You are still contributing to the success of these films. By the way, most movies nowadays make a huge portion of their profits on the video market.

The Overlord Returns
05-22-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by RooJay
And yet by your own admission you still plan on at least renting the video. You are still contributing to the success of these films. By the way, most movies nowadays make a huge portion of their profits on the video market.

This is a somewhat pointless argument. Like I said above, if one doesn't go and see the film first hand, one has no right to complain about it.

Besides, it was one bad film that followed a good one. So far their hitting par........perhaps 3 will be good.

Porcelina
05-22-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Besides, it was one bad film that followed a good one. So far their hitting par........perhaps 3 will be good.

not if that trailer at the end of the credits has anything to do with it :D

Brainiak76
05-22-2003, 03:36 PM
can you describe it?? i didnt see it.

keith koth
05-22-2003, 05:30 PM
I think that one reason for so many disappointed movie goers was the lack of explaination and incompleteness of the story. Movie goers were left wondering too many things.

The first film was pretty much self contained...meaning that it had all of the elements necessary for one to fully comprehend the point and direction of the movie. If left as is (no part II or III), Matrix I would have been just fine as a great sci-fi movie. I think most people were expecting the same type of movie again For Matrix II.

However, it was explained by the producers and directors that although the first Matrix was a completely self contained movie, it's purpose was to set up the scenario for the second two movies (the beef of the story). They went further to explain that you could consider Matrix II & III as one movie...mening that one must see both parts in order for the movie to have the completeness of Matrix I. That is the reason they are releasing the 2 movies so close to eachother.

I'm sure that after viewing Matrix III and getting the rest of the story most of the naysayers will be back on the bandwagon. Except those that thought the acting and special effects were lame...but you can't please everyone all of the time...so oh well!

RooJay
05-22-2003, 06:59 PM
I'd tend to agree with that assessment. This movie, out of all other sequels that have come down the pike, is most definitely a middle chapter in a much larger story, and probably suffers a bit moreso because. Extra good that we don't have to wait very long at all for the next chapter.

By the way, who else is playing the game? It's awesome!

Porcelina
05-22-2003, 11:04 PM
a movie should always be self-contained... same with a book... but i didn't feel the problem with matrix 2 was that it was incomplete storytelling... the problem was poor storytelling... in the sense that the plot didn't drive the movie, the action sequences and special effects did... the story was pieced together to show those off (kinda like mamma mia, if you saw the musical--the plot was silly and convoluted because all they cared about was how many abba songs they could fit in)

the other problems were that the action bits that they tried so hard to show off were 1) too long, 2) too repetitive, and 3) had poor cgi

actually, the best parts for me were the good actors in the film (no, not keanu, he just stands there looking dimwitted before getting into fights)... morpheus (obviously), the french dude, as pointless as his role was, was fantastic, and the key maker was tres cool too...

the film could easily have been 1.5-2 hours and been BETTER for it.... if they had stuck to a plot... good storytelling should be as concise as possible, and not include pointless scenes just for sex appeal (read: cave rave and monica belluci kiss)

will i go see matrix 3? yes, i will... but i will definitely go on a half-price tuesday :)

Porcelina
05-22-2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Brainiak76
can you describe it?? i didnt see it.

hmm.... loads of action sequences, them fighting the machines, and of course, neo in a big showdown with agent smith... that's about all i can think of... you can probably download the trailer off the net somewhere... :)

RooJay
05-23-2003, 03:17 AM
So you're saying that you didn't like the movie? Oh okay, I think we all understand what you're trying to say now!

The Overlord Returns
05-23-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by RooJay
So you're saying that you didn't like the movie? Oh okay, I think we all understand what you're trying to say now!

You really should quote when speaking to someone specifically.....


Those of us who did NOT like the film were asked why......and you get snooty with us for going into that very why......

I'd also like to chime in and state that, in my opinion, M2 proves that there were no original intentions for a sequel to the first film. The plot for M2 was so scattered it seemed as if they were having one hell of a time trying to cobble together a cohesive idea for 2 more films....

scruffziller
05-23-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by keith koth
I think that one reason for so many disappointed movie goers was the lack of explaination and incompleteness of the story. Movie goers were left wondering too many things.


But that for me is exaxtly why it was great. I really like having the opportunity to discuss and speculate what is going to happen, I actually like cliffhangers.
Reloaded and Revelations are really 1 movie 2 parts.

But the way I see this movie at how people are not liking it is analagous to most people not liking a food like caviar, liver, brains, etc. but others really like those foods. People found the talking long and boring but I found it intriguing and invigorating.

The Overlord Returns
05-23-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller

But the way I see this movie at how people are not liking it is analagous to most people not liking a food like caviar, liver, brains, etc. but others really like those foods. People found the talking long and boring but I found it intriguing and invigorating.

I found it childish and pretentious, myself.

Porcelina
05-23-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
People found the talking long and boring but I found it intriguing and invigorating.

what talking? oohhhh, you mean the grade nine "philosophizing" that was interspersed during the action sequences.... :p

keith koth
05-23-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I'd also like to chime in and state that, in my opinion, M2 proves that there were no original intentions for a sequel to the first film. The plot for M2 was so scattered it seemed as if they were having one hell of a time trying to cobble together a cohesive idea for 2 more films....

Well, then your opinion is wrong . The Wachowski brothers took the idea of the Matrix to Warner Brothers with the Specific Intention of producing the story in a trilogy format. That fact was established well before the first Matrix was ever released in theaters.



Originally posted by scruffziller
But that for me is exaxtly why it was great. I really like having the opportunity to discuss and speculate what is going to happen, I actually like cliffhangers. Reloaded and Revelations are really 1 movie 2 parts

Yes, it is fun to speculate...and I enjoyed the film for that reason as well...but many people felt disappointed because they only got half a movie.

The Overlord Returns
05-23-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by keith koth
Well, then your opinion is wrong . The Wachowski brothers took the idea of the Matrix to Warner Brothers with the Specific Intention of producing the story in a trilogy format. That fact was established well before the first Matrix was ever released in theaters.


Do you have some sort of documentation on this? Or are you going by interviews that the brothers have done. If so, I'll stick by my opinion. If there was some official press release stating that it was intended to be a trilogy all along, I will concede the point.

scruffziller
05-23-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by keith koth
but many people felt disappointed because they only got half a movie.

It is funny that u mention that too, I know some people that actually hate ESB for that reason and will actually never watch it again because it was a cliffhanger. I told him, "dude, then you are not a true SW fan if you think ESB was a bad movie for that reason." How can the very end of a movie ruin the whole rest of it I will never know.

keith koth
05-23-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Do you have some sort of documentation on this? Or are you going by interviews that the brothers have done. If so, I'll stick by my opinion. If there was some official press release stating that it was intended to be a trilogy all along, I will concede the point.

I believe, although I may be wrong, that the idea of a trilogy was mentioned in some footage on the DVD Matrix Revisited. I believe they discussed (in some footage of the previsualization phase) exactly what elements they were looking for in their Trilogy.

Besides, all of the actors and everyone else involved in this project claim that this has been a trilogy from the beginning...even the dude that played Tank (who got shafted and was not allowed to be in Matrix II) says that it was a planed trilogy. The end of Matrix I even suggests that there would be a sequal to follow. Come on now, just because you didn't like the movie doesn't mean that you need to go around blindly :cool: throwing out accusations about the Matrix being another one of those "Hollywood" situations where they say "Hey, lets cash in on this blockbuster with a sequal or two."

If the Matrix was not planned as a trilogy from the beginning, then I'm sure we would have heard others (especially movie critics) discuss the fact that Matrix II was sequal based upon the original movie. Pretty much everyone in the entertainment industry accepts as fact that these films were planned as a trilogy.

No documentation needed for me! :D

Pendo
05-24-2003, 06:16 AM
Saw Matrix Reloaded last night, and what can I say? I LOVED it :D. I thought the story was quite good, and IMO not that confusing, I understoon everything up until Neo saw the Architect. The action scenes were extreemly cool (although the CGI looked crap), and that car/bike chase took my breath away.

The film wasn't better than the 1st, but I thought it was a close competitor. Now just gotta wait a few months for Revolutions :).

PENDO!

scruffziller
05-24-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Pendo
(although the CGI looked crap)


PENDO!

I thought the CGI was better than our SW but not as good as LOTR:TT.

I like RELOADED better than the first. The first was just eye candy and more down the road of science fantasy like SW. Where Reloaded is more down the road of science fiction like Star Trek. And with that said I am more of s Star Trek guy than a SW guy.

RooJay
05-24-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
You really should quote when speaking to someone specifically.....

Sorry, I must have been absent the day that new rule was put into effect. My post directly followed the post I was referring to so there should've been no need to quote. In the future I will do my best to meet this request of yours. M'kay? ;)



Those of us who did NOT like the film were asked why......and you get snooty with us for going into that very why......

Who's getting "snooty"? I was merely reinforcing my understanding of the opinions posted by others, and perhaps hinting that we have acknowleged and might to move on.


I'd also like to chime in and state that, in my opinion, M2 proves that there were no original intentions for a sequel to the first film. The plot for M2 was so scattered it seemed as if they were having one hell of a time trying to cobble together a cohesive idea for 2 more films....

You did see the first Matrix, right? You didn't feel there was definitelt an intent to continue that story? As I recall, that move was left pretty open ended itself with a lot of questions left to be answered and a lot of plot to resolve.


Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I found it childish and pretentious, myself.

We didn't.

Porcelina
05-25-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by RooJay
So you're saying that you didn't like the movie? Oh okay, I think we all understand what you're trying to say now!

my deepest apologies, i was under the impression that this was a discussion board where people could talk about their thoughts and opinions with each other, but next time i will merely state "I did not like it!!" and you can say "I did like it!!" and then we can move onto another topic :rolleyes:

sarcasm aside, i didn't notice you being snooty to people who went into detail about why they *liked* the movie, even if the posts were getting repetitive.. and as overlord mentioned, we were ASKED to explain our reasons for not liking the movie... and considering *some* people were presuming to know exactly why we all hated the movie, i thought it would be best to clarify my point of view since i hadn't actually explained it before

and, as a side note, if you ever want to have a serious discussion with me, kill the snarky, patronizing tone please :)

scruffziller
05-25-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller

But the way I see this movie at how people are not liking it is analagous to most people not liking a food like caviar, liver, brains, etc. but others really like those foods. People found the talking long and boring but I found it intriguing and invigorating.

With saying this I'll say that the basic outline of the nature of M2 is also analagous to forms of media such as Shakespearean plays, operas, poetry, college level reading etc.. Like these, M2 would only be liked by people with aquired taste.

Porcelina
05-26-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
With saying this I'll say that the basic outline of the nature of M2 is also analagous to forms of media such as Shakespearean plays, operas, poetry, college level reading etc.. Like these, M2 would only be liked by people with aquired taste.

i don't mean this to sound condescending, so please don't take it as such, but... what do you find so deep/thought-provoking about M2?

scruffziller
05-26-2003, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Porcelina
i don't mean this to sound condescending, so please don't take it as such, but... what do you find so deep/thought-provoking about M2?

The deep mystery of what is actually going on here in the matrix.
My friend and I stood out in the parking lot of the movie theatre discussing for 2 hours what Revalations is going to show us.
As hard as they have worked to becoming free, I believe they have not actually left the matrix and how will we really know if they will ever really will leave?? My brain is arack with possibilities
and it is about to overload!!!!!:crazed:

The Overlord Returns
05-26-2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by RooJay



You did see the first Matrix, right? You didn't feel there was definitelt an intent to continue that story? As I recall, that move was left pretty open ended itself with a lot of questions left to be answered and a lot of plot to resolve.

Sure, they left the ending somewhat open ended, no doubt in the hopes that it would be successful enough to warrant a sequel. However, it's a poor filmmaking choice to have your hero become uber powerful at the end of the first act. Imagine how dull ESB and ROTJ would have been if Luke had become as powerful as yoda at the end of ANH.

mini-rock
05-26-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Imagine how dull ESB and ROTJ would have been if Luke had become as powerful as yoda at the end of ANH.

That would have made the films better IMO, instead of Luke being such a wuss.

Anakin2121
05-26-2003, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock
That would have made the films better IMO, instead of Luke being such a wuss.

Exactly!!! :D

Besides, so what? The Matrix #1 can function as a standalone film and the first act of a trilogy. So what? It's the same with the Star Wars films. You could watch ANH by itself and be satisfied because it has its own story, but also sows the seeds for the setup of its sequels. It's the same with the Matrix series.

On its own the Matrix Reloaded is definitely a weak film, but as a sequel to the first movie, or better yet as the middle film of the trilogy, it's a freakin' awesome movie!!! :D

The rabid fanboys are all the same. They were just like this at the release of TPM. So much anticipation, so much hype....no movie, not even the greatest friggin' masterpiece ever conceived, can ever be all things to all people and please everyone (which Lucas is trying to do with the prequels), and the fanboys have such ludicrous expectations for the film that no movie could ever truly deliver, and so upon the movie's release they promptly begin trashing the film. :(

The Overlord Returns
05-27-2003, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by mini-rock
That would have made the films better IMO, instead of Luke being such a wuss.

Ah yes, because the fight in ESB would be yards better with Luke spanking down Vader yoda style....that would have been great drama :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Anakin2121

The rabid fanboys are all the same. They were just like this at the release of TPM. So much anticipation, so much hype....no movie, not even the greatest friggin' masterpiece ever conceived, can ever be all things to all people and please everyone (which Lucas is trying to do with the prequels), and the fanboys have such ludicrous expectations for the film that no movie could ever truly deliver, and so upon the movie's release they promptly begin trashing the film. :(

Erm........

I am hardly a rabid fanboy when it comes to tha Matrix series. As stated earlier, I enjoyed the first film, but didn't love it. M2 is a poorly crafted mess, IMO. Why is it so hard for those who liked it to accept that there are concrete reasons to NOT like the film as well?

scruffziller
05-27-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Why is it so hard for those who liked it to accept that there are concrete reasons to NOT like the film as well?

I am not touching that with a 10 foot pole. :rolleyes:

The Overlord Returns
05-27-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
I am not touching that with a 10 foot pole. :rolleyes:

LOL....and why is that, may I ask?

........Since you clearly wanted to show how much you dissaprove of the remark ;)

scruffziller
05-27-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
LOL....and why is that, may I ask?

........Since you clearly wanted to show how much you dissaprove of the remark ;)

Who said anything about dissaproving????


Originally posted by The Overlord Returns

Why is it so hard for those who liked it to accept that there are concrete reasons to NOT like the film as well?

And vice versa. But I haven't seen that happening.

The Overlord Returns
05-27-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
Who said anything about dissaproving????

It was clear enough in the tone of your post......

Seriously though, what about that statement causes you to roll the eyes?

scruffziller
05-27-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
It was clear enough in the tone of your post......

Seriously though, what about that statement causes you to roll the eyes?

A snicker.:crazed:

Patient Zero
05-27-2003, 11:18 AM
What I want to know is why people bother to waste their time and energy bashing things in an attempt to change other's opinions? And yes, that is what is happening or else one would just state their opinion and move on. Matrix 2 I liked very much, but I don't feel the need to convince others of its cinematic or philisophical value. If you don't like it then you don't; no skin off my back. Xmen 2 I thought was a complete waste, but I am not over in that thread bashing it because I don't care if others liked it. To each his own.

The Overlord Returns
05-27-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by The Ghost of Jonna
What I want to know is why people bother to waste their time and energy bashing things in an attempt to change other's opinions? And yes, that is what is happening or else one would just state their opinion and move on. Matrix 2 I liked very much, but I don't feel the need to convince others of its cinematic or philisophical value. If you don't like it then you don't; no skin off my back. Xmen 2 I thought was a complete waste, but I am not over in that thread bashing it because I don't care if others liked it. To each his own.

Wasn't it you that asked for reasons as to why we didn't like it?

Besides, I thought the thread title here was Matrix Reloaded "Discussion".....

James Boba Fettfield
05-27-2003, 11:45 AM
It is a discussion, I used my moderator super powers to call it that. So let it be written, so let it be done. Now back to discussing, like we've been doing all along.

RooJay
05-27-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Porcelina
my deepest apologies, i was under the impression that this was a discussion board where people could talk about their thoughts and opinions with each other, but next time i will merely state "I did not like it!!" and you can say "I did like it!!" and then we can move onto another topic :rolleyes:

I never once stated that you were not allowed to express your opinions. I dare you to find one instance of me doing this. As far as I'm concerned, you can feel free to hate anything you want; I couldn't really care less. The point I was trying to make was that your point was already made and is now well understood by all involved. :D It just seemed to me that anytime someone chimed in about how much they enjoyed the movie, either you or the other guy decided to beat us over the head again (and seemingly insult the intelligence of everyone who disagrees) about how much you disliked it. I just didn't feel that you had added anything new to the discussion in a long time, but by all means - Preach on! ;) I've come to accept and appreciate being educated on how I have no taste in entertainment, no understanding of 'true' philosophy and how I was maliciously fooled into thinking I had actually enjoyed the Matrix sequel. :rolleyes:


sarcasm aside, i didn't notice you being snooty to people who went into detail about why they *liked* the movie, even if the posts were getting repetitive..

Why would anyone ever do that? I didn't get "snooty" with them because they shared my views. To do otherwise is quite pointless. Besides, I have yet to notice anyone getting repetitive about how much fun they had; although again, that probably has lots to do with the fact that I tend to agree with them. :sur:


and, as a side note, if you ever want to have a serious discussion with me, kill the snarky, patronizing tone please :)

Duly noted.:)


Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Sure, they left the ending somewhat open ended, no doubt in the hopes that it would be successful enough to warrant a sequel. However, it's a poor filmmaking choice to have your hero become uber powerful at the end of the first act. Imagine how dull ESB and ROTJ would have been if Luke had become as powerful as yoda at the end of ANH.

So am I correct in assuming that you weren't terribly pleased with the first Matrix either? Seems to me as though you would have had the same problems with that one as well, correct?


Originally posted by The Ghost of Jonna
What I want to know is why people bother to waste their time and energy bashing things in an attempt to change other's opinions? And yes, that is what is happening or else one would just state their opinion and move on. Matrix 2 I liked very much, but I don't feel the need to convince others of its cinematic or philisophical value. If you don't like it then you don't; no skin off my back. Xmen 2 I thought was a complete waste, but I am not over in that thread bashing it because I don't care if others liked it. To each his own.

EXACTLY ! (except for that stuff about X2!)
It should go without saying that I couldn't really care less if someone else doesn't like the same things as I, but it does seem as though this exact thing of which you speak happens quite a lot around here. Perhaps, too many people spending too much time telling us how we're all wrong for enjoying something just because they themselves don't?

The Overlord Returns
05-27-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by RooJay
So am I correct in assuming that you weren't terribly pleased with the first Matrix either? Seems to me as though you would have had the same problems with that one as well, correct?

If you go back and actually read my previous posts you'll see that I enjoyed the first Matrix film, just didn't "love" it or consider it a groundbreaking masterpiece.


As for the problems in M2, no I did not feel them as acutely in the first film. The dialogue was better, the plot was far more structured. In the Matrix, the action sequences serviced the story, whereas, in Matrix 2, the story seemed to be less important than the next big boffo action scene featuring an overpowered Neo facing threats he would easily dispatch. There was never once the slightest bit of worry that he was in danger, that he might lose. As for the philosophy, again in the first film, it was put forth in a more cohesive way, and never fell into the realm of pretention that I feel the nauseating platitudes did in M2.

The major problem I had with the first film has been illustrated in my previous posts. If they knew a trilogy was in the works, they made a bad judgement call in making Neo so powerful by the end of the film.


Originally posted by RooJay






EXACTLY ! (except for that stuff about X2!)
It should go without saying that I couldn't really care less if someone else doesn't like the same things as I, but it does seem as though this exact thing of which you speak happens quite a lot around here. Perhaps, too many people spending too much time telling us how we're all wrong for enjoying something just because they themselves don't?


PLease tell me where in this thread I stated that anyone who enjoyed M2 were "wrong" for doing so, simply because I did not.

Porcelina
05-27-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by RooJay
I never once stated that you were not allowed to express your opinions.

true, it was never stated, it was merely implied in a sarcastic whiny tone



Originally posted by RooJay

The point I was trying to make was that your point was already made and is now well understood by all involved.

my point??? already made??? but... umm.... it was the first time i'd explained my point of view....


Originally posted by RooJay

I've come to accept and appreciate being educated on how I have no taste in entertainment, no understanding of 'true' philosophy and how I was maliciously fooled into thinking I had actually enjoyed the Matrix sequel.

glad you're finally coming to your senses :D


Originally posted by RooJay

Why would anyone ever do that? I didn't get "snooty" with them because they shared my views.


ahh... i see... you only like to listen to people who have the same views as you... makes for some very interesting conversation, i'm sure :rolleyes:

James Boba Fettfield
05-27-2003, 01:24 PM
Ok, I think I got this thread organized. I've noticed quite a bit of back to back posting. Please avoid that, just use the edit button.

RooJay
05-27-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Porcelina
ahh... i see... you only like to listen to people who have the same views as you... makes for some very interesting conversation, i'm sure :rolleyes:

Naturally, but of course you realize that I did in fact listen to your views. Indeed, that was my whole point; you'd already contributed your views, and we all read them.

Getting back on topic...
Is anyone playing the game? I'm not sure I saw any replies to that one.
Pretty fun, and some pretty cool story stuff to boot! I've managed to complete it with Ghost on easy mode; Niobe's next, then I'll work on up to hard. It would've been nice to be able to actaully fight the twins rather than just shoot at them from the car, but it was great to get a chance to square off against Trinity in the training program! It was also pretty cool to mix it up with Merovingian's vampire thugs too! We didn't really get a good sense of them in the movie.
If anyone's interested in spoilers from the game I'd be happy to oblige.

Patient Zero
05-27-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Wasn't it you that asked for reasons as to why we didn't like it?


Of course and those reasons were, to my knowledge, stated. I just don't see the point of beating a dead horse. But that is only my opinion. :D

mini-rock
05-27-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Ah yes, because the fight in ESB would be yards better with Luke spanking down Vader yoda style....that would have been great drama :rolleyes:

LMAO! Dude! What's up with the :rolleyes:? You asked the question, and I gave an answer, and now your beating me down for it? Don't get bent b/c of an answer to a question that YOU asked is unfavorable.

And who knows how much more dramatic the fight in ESB would have been if Luke had been a full fledged Jedi. All I'm saying is IMO it would have been better.

Back to the Matrix Reloaded, my kids also thought it was great (as good as the first) and we are going tonight to see it again.:D

RooJay, yeah I'm playing the game. There's been some discussion on it in the video games section.:D

The Overlord Returns
05-27-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock
LMAO! Dude! What's up with the :rolleyes:? You asked the question, and I gave an answer, and now your beating me down for it? Don't get bent b/c of an answer to a question that YOU asked is unfavorable.



Jeez...don't get excited. The :rolleyes: in the post was merely to indicate the overall sarcastic tone........no one is "beating you down".

mini-rock
05-27-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Jeez...don't get excited. The :rolleyes: in the post was merely to indicate the overall sarcastic tone........no one is "beating you down".

OK my bad. Yeah I think I'am a little "excited". I took my Hydroxycut to go to the gym and unfortunately my wife got called into work for a few minutes so I didn't get a chance to go yet. Now I'm sitting here all AMPED UP!! Anyway, my apologies TOR.:D

The Overlord Returns
05-27-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock
OK my bad. Yeah I think I'am a little "excited". I took my Hydroxycut to go to the gym and unfortunately my wife got called into work for a few minutes so I didn't get a chance to go yet. Now I'm sitting here all AMPED UP!! Anyway, my apologies TOR.:D

Hey, no worries. I think a few of us have gotten "excited" in this thread, myself included.


Then again, maybe we're all here doing this, because we are all supposed to be here doing this. It's all about control, and even though we think we are making a choice, perhaps that choice is just.....oh....never mind ;)

2-1B
05-28-2003, 02:41 AM
I saw this movie on Monday and wasn't very impressed.
I agree overall with some of the opinions here that it was rather boring in some respects. No, it's not because I don't "get it" -- I just didn't care much about it. Morpheus giving that speech in Zion was ridiculous.
I liked the first one and think the sequel is not as good. A small dose of Joey Pants might have helped. ;)

There was plenty to like about it, don't get me wrong. Hugo Weaving was wonderful and I could have used more of him.
Keanu was alright except for those *** cheek shots. Carrie-Anne was cool but she's looking a bit long in the tooth. :D Morpheus, well I made the Zion speech comment earlier . . . I thought he rocked in the first movie but he was somewhat bothersome in this one.

Those twins were pointless, I didn't care about them at all.

RooJay
05-28-2003, 03:40 AM
It goes wihtout saying that most films would benefit from a little dose of Joey Pants.

scruffziller
05-28-2003, 08:29 AM
On the non intellectual side. I watched The first one yesterday and realized Reloaded had tons more action sequences and tons more intensity in those sequences.

Eternal Padawan
05-29-2003, 03:25 PM
Can anyone tell me why Morpheus' "Residual Self Image" in the Matrix packed on about twenty pounds of pure belly?

I mean sure, out in the 'desert of the real' he's all about the chicken wings obviously. But why wouldn't he see himself sleek and sveldt in the computer? Instead he's all MOREpheus. I thought the Residual Self Image was gonna keel over from clogged arteries.

RooJay
05-29-2003, 03:40 PM
ROFLMAO!

Perhaps he's got a failing self image? Not feeling so confident as anymore? Might also explain why some people tend to look just as old in the Matrix as they do out, rather than everyone looking like teenagers or all in their earlt twenties when they're jacked in.

Now that I think of it, it was stated that he'd somewhat recently lost Niobe's attentions to the more 'powerful' Commander Lock. Maybe that caused him to start doubting his physical 'appeal'.

mm74md
06-01-2003, 02:31 PM
I finally got to see it last night. My wife and I thought it was great. So did the others in the audience. The Zion party was quite erotic :happy: !

It's rare for me to see a movie in the theater these days and even more rare that a movie gets applause at the end. The only other time I've experienced that was at the midnight viewings of EP1 & EP2 with other die hard SW fans and again last night with Reloaded.

I think that a lot of people don't get the point that this is only 1/2 a movie with the other 1/2 coming in November. And I can't believe the complaints about the fight scenes. What was long about them? Do you want to see Neo kick 6 butts in 1 minute? Where is the fun in that? I thought the whole Agent Smith thing was cool.

I think another issue that some people have and won't admit is the popularity of the film series now. The first Matrix was a "cult classic" and now Reloaded is a "sellout" and now is not "cool". People who blast a movie for this reason need to grow up and/or get laid without paying for it.

Finally, the issue of people who "Get It" or "Don't Get It". I'll admit that I Don't Get It with Reloaded....yet. This was the same for the first Matrix. The first Matrix grew clearer after a few additional viewings and really grew on me when I got a DVD player & surround sound :) I will see Reloaded again in the theater if I get a chance to figure out some of those loose ends.

Was it as good as the original? Nope, because we sort of know what to expect in a Matrix movie now. All in all a great movie & worth the price of a theater ticket.

scruffziller
06-01-2003, 08:47 PM
To really put it bluntly, people who "won't" get the movie in the future after several viewings, is because this movie is just too smart for them. I know I am opening up a can of worms, but this is what I have been trying to say all along. This movie had such a greater purpose than what people were expecting.

mini-rock
06-01-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by scruffziller
To really put it bluntly, people who "won't" get the movie in the future after several viewings, is because this movie is just too smart for them. I know I am opening up a can of worms, but this is what I have been trying to say all along. This movie had such a greater purpose than what people were expecting.


I totally agree that the film had a greater purpose, and it may be too much for most people to understand. I think alot of people made the mistake of checking their brain at the door thinking it would be more along the lines of the first Matrix. The first was easier to "get", but in Reloaded nothing was held back, and you can really tell that alot was held back in the first film probably so people would "get it." There's some serious deep **** going on in the film, and after my first veiwing I literally had a headache from trying to absorb everything at once. Truly outstanding movie.:)

dr_evazan22
06-01-2003, 11:28 PM
I just saw this last night as well. Overall I liked it but do feel there were many more fight scenes. I liked the key maker.

I got some but not all of the movie. Maybe I'll return to see it on one of my days off to take in more.

Liked the look of the movie- the Twins, Neo's look, trinity looks good in patent leather (even if her teeth are getting a little long).

Thought the Morpheus speech was a little over the top, that the Zion party seemed a tad Hedonistic and they showed too much of the Neo/Trinity love scene!

It was a alittle wierd watching the Oracle, knowing the actress is dead.

Time to go back and read the first 10 pages of this thread...

2-1B
06-01-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by dr_evazan22
they showed too much of the Neo/Trinity love scene!


Correction: they showed WAYYYY too much of Neo's cheeks while not showing enough of Trinity. ;)

derek
06-02-2003, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
Can anyone tell me why Morpheus' "Residual Self Image" in the Matrix packed on about twenty pounds of pure belly?

maybe morpheus is a "realist". he knows what he is, and is happy with who he is and dosen't feel the need to project himself as something he is not.:) but i did notice that. laurence looked like his gut was bloated! but it didn't keep him from the kung-fu fightin'!

speaking of "Residual Self Image", what would be really cool is if they had different actors play the roles of the characters while they are in the real world/matrix.

i could see the following roles filled easily:

neo.......rob schneider/keanu reeves
morphious....chris rock/laurence fishburn
trinity............Rachel Dratch/carrie-anne moss

actually i prefer things the way they are, but it would be kinda cool.

and speaking of the matrix releaded..................am i the only one who thinks the architech was lying to neo? i've seen the film 3 times, and i'm convinced everything he told neo will be proved to be a lie when "revolutions" is released. just his facial expressions and reaction when neo choose to save trinity gave me that hint. it kinda felt like that scene in "total recall" when the doctor was telling doug quaid(arnold) that his whole adventure to mars was just a dream/recall gone bad. i was expecting a bead of sweat to roll down the architech's forehead at any minute!:)

i think we'll find that neo is SO powerful that the matrix and architech can't control him, as they did the other "ones". if the puropse of the "one" was merely to reset the matrix, they wouldn't of had agents trying to kill him the last 2 films, but capture him and force him to reset the matrix.

James Boba Fettfield
06-02-2003, 07:09 AM
How about you make Morpheus into Chris Tucker and Neo into Jackie Chan. The movie practically writes itself. It would be like Rush Hour 3 and Reloaded all in one big train wreck-er..um, one big box office hit.

scruffziller
06-02-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by James Boba Fettfield
How about you make Morpheus into Chris Tucker and Neo into Jackie Chan. The movie practically writes itself. It would be like Rush Hour 3 and Reloaded all in one big train wreck-er..um, one big box office hit.
The new Starsky and Hutch movie comes to mind.;) :p :D


Originally posted by derek


and speaking of the matrix releaded..................am i the only one who thinks the architech was lying to neo? i've seen the film 3 times, and i'm convinced everything he told neo will be proved to be a lie when "revolutions" is released. just his facial expressions and reaction when neo choose to save trinity gave me that hint. it kind felt like that scene in "total recall" when the doctor was telling doug quaid(arnold) that his whole adventure to mars was just a dream/recall gone bad. i was expecting a bead of sweat to roll down the architech's forehead at any minute!:)

i think we'll find that neo is SO powerful that the matrix and architech can't control him, as they did the other "ones". if the puropse of the "one" was merely to reset the matrix, they wouldn't of had agents trying to kill him the last 2 films, but capture him and force him to reset the matrix.

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!:happy:
This goes along with my "matrix witin a matrix" theory. I think in Revaltions we will find out that nothing is what it has ever seemed.

mm74md
06-02-2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
To really put it bluntly, people who "won't" get the movie in the future after several viewings, is because this movie is just too smart for them. I know I am opening up a can of worms, but this is what I have been trying to say all along. This movie had such a greater purpose than what people were expecting.

So you are saying that everyone who is not a huge sci fi nerd won't understand this movie?

keith koth
06-02-2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by derek
and speaking of the matrix releaded..................am i the only one who thinks the architech was lying to neo? i've seen the film 3 times, and i'm convinced everything he told neo will be proved to be a lie when "revolutions" is released. just his facial expressions and reaction when neo choose to save trinity gave me that hint. it kind felt like that scene in "total recall" when the doctor was telling doug quaid(arnold) that his whole adventure to mars was just a dream/recall gone bad. i was expecting a bead of sweat to roll down the architech's forehead at any minute!:)

I also agree. :)

I think that the Architech lied about which door to go through knowing all along which door Neo would choose...thus sending Neo through the door the Architech desired him to go through. Or, perhaps both doors went down the same path (i.e., there are no real choices...just the illusion of choice). :eek:

RooJay
06-02-2003, 12:58 PM
I've been saying that the Architect has been lying all along. Good to see there are finally others who agree with me. Of course, I have different notions of the reasoning behind the lie and of what the actual truth may be.

The Overlord Returns
06-02-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by scruffziller
To really put it bluntly, people who "won't" get the movie in the future after several viewings, is because this movie is just too smart for them. I know I am opening up a can of worms, but this is what I have been trying to say all along. This movie had such a greater purpose than what people were expecting.




*covers mouth*

snicker.....snicker.......BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHAHAHAH AHAHAAA!!!!


Aww man, thanks...I needed that laugh.........I'm sorry, but a fairly determined monkey could see through the grade 9 "teen angst" philosophy that glutted that film.....

mini-rock
06-02-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
*covers mouth*

snicker.....snicker.......BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHAHAHAH AHAHAAA!!!!


Aww man, thanks...I needed that laugh.........I'm sorry, but a fairly determined monkey could see through the grade 9 "teen angst" philosophy that glutted that film.....

WOW, scruff must have hit it pretty close to the mark to get people all rild up like that.;):p

AND, I agree. The architect was FOS.

The Overlord Returns
06-02-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock
WOW, scruff must have hit it pretty close to the mark to get people all rild up like that.;):p

Oh yes...dead on:rolleyes: ;)

mini-rock
06-02-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Oh yes...dead on

Good. Glad we agree.:)

The Overlord Returns
06-02-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock
Good. Glad we agree.:)

Awwwww.......it is so cute watching people try to be clever ;)

Lobito
06-02-2003, 04:24 PM
I watched this movie almost 2 weeks ago and i think it is great!! A little bit too long maybe (specially if u see the movie at 10:00pm) Anyway, its obvious some questions wont be answered until we get the animatrix dvd and still untill we see the conclusion of the story in November.

The questions / comments i got are:

So the oracle as well as the jet li clone are renegade programs???

The conversation with the architect...he tells Neo that he has to choose between saving Zion or saving private Ryan...

:crazed: ...??? Huh?? Oh yep...saving Trinity.

Neo obviously chooses to save Trinity but i got confused after that...did they arrive to Zion or do they arrive to a ship??? So is Zion destroyed?? Anyway, that guy that tries to kill Neo is actually agent Smith right?? I mean Agent Smith assimilated that guy and then the guy returned to the real world to kill Neo.

Anyway...i liked the movie...the producers are still going to get more money from us (Animatrix and Matrix Revolutions)...and we will discuss this topic forever...


:D


Peace!!

RooJay
06-02-2003, 04:51 PM
Neo and Trinity "arrived" in the Nebuchadnezzar, which they had actually been inside of, in the real world, jacked into the Matrix the entire time. They basically 'awoke' from inside the Matrix much as they usually would.

I am unclear as to whether or not the attack on Zion had begun. It seems as though it was mentioned that it had begun, but I haven't been able to determine whether or not Zion had been destroyed already and what the status of the resistance was. It would seem as though this was intentionally left unanswered.

I understood that Agent Smith had infected the guy's mind in the way a computer virus might infect a computer. It would seem as though the guy is definitely under the influence of Smith, and will act as his agent outside of the Matrix in some obvious capacity.

Also, I have also been meaning to bring to everyone's attention that in the Enter the Matrix game, the Oracle (in her new "shell") explains to Niobe how after rescuing Trinity - Neo (his mind perhaps?) is now trapped between the computer world and the 'real' world. Here is a transcript of a portion of the scene (from the game) in question:

Oracle: The Merovingian warned me, that If I made a certain choice it would cost me. He is, among other things, a man of his word.

Niobe: What was the choice?

O: The same one you yourself will have to make: The choice to help Neo or not.

N: Then Neo is still alive?

O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.

N: Can we free him?

O: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.

dr_evazan22
06-02-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Lobito
Anyway, that guy that tries to kill Neo is actually agent Smith right?? I mean Agent Smith assimilated that guy and then the guy returned to the real world to kill Neo.


I didn't see anybody else bring up Agent Smith...
One of my first thoughts upon seeing Smith back was that he was a renegade, since he wasn't working w/ any of the other agents. Does anyone else think that Smith may end up helping the humans/Zion? Or at least that there is more going on (w/ his intentions) then what we were shown?

In M1 when Smith is interrogating Morf, talking about how he hates the smell of humans and wants to be free (from doing his job), it reminds me a little of Vader trying to seduce Luke in ESB and again of Dooku doing the same to Obi.

Another thing that gives the "Matrix w/in a Matrix" theory some weight is that Smith is able to control the human in Zion.

Oh S!

SPOILER

I just remembered reading somewhere (I forget where) that Morf somehow betrays Neo and/or Zion in M3. Both times the Smith human tried to make an attempt on Neo, Morf was also present...

Anyone else have any input or thoguhts here?

mini-rock
06-02-2003, 08:21 PM
No, I don't. I don't think Morpheus will betray Neo just like Mace isn't really a "bad guy." Just my opinion though.:)


I didn't get a chance to see the Animatrix befor the DVD release, but I just got done watching the DVD and I have to say it has one of the most aggressive soundtracks I've heard. Excellent DVD. Flight of the Osiris really didn't need to be seen to understand Reloaded, but it did provide some insight.:)

TOR, now you think I'm cute? THANKS DUDE!!:D

Jedi Clint
06-03-2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by dr_evazan22
I didn't see anybody else bring up Agent Smith...
One of my first thoughts upon seeing Smith back was that he was a renegade, since he wasn't working w/ any of the other agents. Does anyone else think that Smith may end up helping the humans/Zion? Or at least that there is more going on (w/ his intentions) then what we were shown?

In M1 when Smith is interrogating Morf, talking about how he hates the smell of humans and wants to be free (from doing his job), it reminds me a little of Vader trying to seduce Luke in ESB and again of Dooku doing the same to Obi.

Another thing that gives the "Matrix w/in a Matrix" theory some weight is that Smith is able to control the human in Zion.

Oh S!

SPOILER

I just remembered reading somewhere (I forget where) that Morf somehow betrays Neo and/or Zion in M3. Both times the Smith human tried to make an attempt on Neo, Morf was also present...

Anyone else have any input or thoguhts here?

It is possible that Smith became Neo's unconcious tool for destroying the matrix. Smith is infected by Neo. His goal is simple. Kill Neo. In the process, he keeps wiping the conciousness of minds and programs in the matrix and creating clones of himself in their place. "It's happening just like before." "Well not exactly." Neo set him free to do this be it unintentionally. "He fights for us." He fights who? The architecht? No. Smith! With thousands of Smiths looking on.



The attack on Zion hadn't started in Reloaded. The sentinels are headed straight down toward Zion because all horizontal attacks can be blocked by Zion's defenses. IIRC, They were trying to stop the sentinels from cutting off their escape routes when an E.M.P. was prematurely set off and the sentinels destroyed the ships in a slaughter that only Bane/Smith survived.

I don't think the architect would intentionally destroy their entire crop unless they had to.


Oracle: The Merovingian warned me, that If I made a certain choice it would cost me. He is, among other things, a man of his word.

Niobe: What was the choice?

O: The same one you yourself will have to make: The choice to help Neo or not.

N: Then Neo is still alive?

O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.

N: Can we free him?

O: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.

This fits the Superbowl preview for Reloaded and Revolutions. "You are ready to die for this man?" "Believe it." Sounded like she was talking to the Merovingian.


How long has the matrix been around (in years)? It is much older than Neo knows according to the architecht. 6 incarnations. Long enough for the sky to be clear again? Will there be peace between humans and machines as a result of the events in the next film? Did the architect give Neo a real choice? Couldn't both doors lead to the source?

Just some random thoughts. Thanks for reading.

scruffziller
06-04-2003, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I found it pretentious, myself.

You say that like it is a bad thing.;)


Originally posted by mini-rock
WOW, scruff must have hit it pretty close to the mark to get people all rild up like that.;):p


Yes they chose to swallow the blue pill.:rolleyes:

The Overlord Returns
06-04-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by scruffziller
You say that like it is a bad thing.;)


Erm....you do know what the word means, don't you?




Originally posted by scruffziller

Yes they chose to swallow the blue pill.:rolleyes:

Oh good lord........:rolleyes:

scruffziller
06-04-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Oh good lord........:rolleyes:

Another dose of the blue.:p

Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Erm....you do know what the word means, don't you?

pre∑ten∑tious
adj.
Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit.

Every bit of the way. But since calling something pretentious as an insult can also be seen as a compliment, minus the negative elements. Plus did you ever think that "being pretentious" is the nature of the Matrix brain. It is the villian after all!!!!! That is usually the trait of most villians. How would Palpy look if he wasn't pretentious???? The meaning can be changed whether a good feeling or a bad feeling is applied. Such as certain words as arrogant and confident. An individual who doesn't like a person that is confident can be seen as arrogant by that individual. It is all about the opinions, unfortunately. Personally, I just think you get bored with the certain things that were going on in this movie so it didn't trip your trigger. You probably have seen things in other movies similar to this stuff and felt the same way, don't worry it isn't for everybody. Like I said before, aquired taste.

The Overlord Returns
06-04-2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by scruffziller
Another dose of the blue.:p


Can't help but wonder how many times you'll defend yourself with this remark. ;)



Originally posted by scruffziller

pre∑ten∑tious
adj.
Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit.
[/B]


Here, let me help you:

pre∑ten∑tious

adj.

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.

You see, pretentious folk tend to pass themselves, or their ideas off as something greater than they are. Matrix 2 is a great example of the W brothers doing just that.



Originally posted by scruffziller

Personally, I just think you get bored with the certain things that were going on in this movie so it didn't trip your trigger. You probably have seen things in other movies similar to this stuff and felt the same way, don't worry it isn't for everybody. Like I said before, aquired taste. [/B]

No, I got annoyed with the dimestore platitudes in this film being passed off on us as profound reasoning.

I became bored with the dreadful acting, the poor, hamfisted dialogue, and repetitive action sequences that dragged on for 20 minutes (with the exception of the highway chase, which I found very well done).

As for feeling this way about other examples of this sort of philosophy, no. I quite enjoy studying philosophy, which is probably why I got annoyed with the Matrix 2 ;)

scruffziller
06-04-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Can't help but wonder how many times you'll defend yourself with this remark. ;)


Until the red pill is taken. Sorry, I could not resist.



Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
As for feeling this way about other examples of this sort of philosophy, no. I quite enjoy studying philosophy, which is probably why I got annoyed with the Matrix 2 ;)

Annoyed from being bored okay I'll give you that.:)
I enjoy studying philosophy as well but what I am getting from what you are saying, that you are annoyed with the so-called low level grade philosophy in the film like it is an adult watching Barney the Dinosaur. If this being the case, please tell me, how you would have changed the script? If I think the dialougue is magnificent, then your upgrade will be astounding.

The Overlord Returns
06-04-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by scruffziller
Until the red pill is taken. Sorry, I could not resist.


S'ok. I'm dissapointed, but not surprised ;)



Originally posted by scruffziller

Annoyed from being bored okay I'll give you that.:)


No annoyed at someone trying to pass themselves off as more intelligent than they are.


Originally posted by scruffziller


If this being the case, please tell me, how you would have changed the script? If I think the dialougue is magnificent, then your upgrade will be astounding.

While I am flattered that you think me capable of editing an entire script from memory, I think I might need a hard copy of somekind :crazed:

vulcantouch
06-04-2003, 01:56 PM
tgoj (post 145 above): "why people bother to waste their time and energy bashing things in an attempt to change other's opinions?"
-"changing others' opinions" may or may not be their intent; see 2nd dvyn reply below. personally i don't care about persuading anyone. the pleasure of the tantalizing possibility of deepening the clarity of perception for myself and possibly others in the process is what motivates Me to express myself :)

dvyn (post 101 above): "what are they - film critics, or philosophy professors?"
-the two are not mutually exclusive, as proven by the fact that nearly all of the interesting philosophical innovations over the last half-century have originated from the world of literary criticism :)

"i feel that they are all trying to be the first to pan the new sure-fire blockbuster"
-i have some, but only limited, interest in the generally-elusive issue of critics' motives for writing what they do. my main focus is on what i can take from his work- what resonances or articulations of what i feel but hadn't been able to put into words, and observations which may not have occured to me but startle me with their original takes, such as geoff reeves' "Neo, formerly a figure of disarming obliviousness (which is why the casting of Reeves was so brilliant)" :)
above all, i don't take critical back-&forth personally which, judging from their tone, many defenders of this flik clearly do. in the course of discussion it's also valid to question the general tastes, intelligence or motives of those factions with whom you disagree, as doing so may help get at a clearer perception of the flik itself which is what matters.
reaction is part of the spectacle of art, sometimes as entertaining as the art itself :happy: speaking of which:

tor: "if one doesn't go and see the film first hand, one has no right to complain about it"
-that doesn't mean one isn't qualified to voice their annoyance at the phenomenon-frenzy Surrounding the flik, much the way i'm annoyed that every little happening on American Idol or Survivor is deemed worthy of mention on nightly newscasts :rolleyes:

"many people felt disappointed because they only got half a movie"
-as the wbros conceived the story's continuation as a five-hour movie, splitting it into two was a necessary concession to the realities of audience expectations and feature exhibition economics as the studio understands them, to wit: in this age of standardized fare only arthouses would ever book a five-hour flik, and only a small audience would patronize same.

porc: "a movie should always be self-contained"
-a movie is art, and art often has a way of dancing out of the "should" boxes in which we try to confine it, breaking our rules and making its own. that's the exhilarating thing about art- its unpredictability and autonomy :)

"kill the snarky, patronizing tone please"
-speak for thyself; i for one enjoy it when people get snarky with Me ;)

cae: "A small dose of Joey Pants might have helped"
-hey, that's what She sed last night- NDOISHHH! :crazed:
vt

scruffziller
06-04-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns

While I am flattered that you think me capable of editing an entire script from memory, I think I might need a hard copy of somekind :crazed:

My brother has the entire script dialougue of the conversation between Neo and The Architecht he will have to send it to me or if someone has it please post it so TOR can get to work.

Seriously, I would like to see some other insights of how people who don't like the film and what they would do different. Because frankly it bugs me that TOR who does like philosophy thinks that all the stuff in the flick is kindergarten level. I took it as him being low grade and that he couldn't comprehend, but that is not the case. Maybe I am not as smart as I thought I was. I will definately have to go see the film again. For me, lots of films have been lacking and to see a film that has a smidgen of something great seemed like steak to me when maybe in fact it was just bolony.HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...........................................ahhhhh. ....that was sad.:D

The Overlord Returns
06-04-2003, 02:44 PM
Well Scruff, you could start by going out and purchasing the collected volumes of Grant Morrisons "The Invisibles". There you will find what was most certainly the structural "inspiration" for the W brothers "groundbreaking and original" work.......You might also try reading some Plato.

As for your abilities with sarcasm.....I agree with your appraisal....they are sad ;)

scruffziller
06-04-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Well Scruff, you could start by going out and purchasing the collected volumes of Grant Morrisons "The Invisibles". There you will find what was most certainly the structural "inspiration" for the W brothers "groundbreaking and original" work.......You might also try reading some Plato.

I have read some Plato back in college but that has been 10 years. Need to refresh.
What do you like about The Invisibles that shows how the W brothers are the lesser clod?
As for my sarcasm..........just goofin'.:crazed:

Porcelina
06-04-2003, 03:56 PM
scruff.... i'd be happy to re-iterate my negative opinions of matrix2, but i'm afraid of getting bombarded by more sarcastic italics, so you'll just have to go back and read my previous posts :p

but, in short, i do agree with tor :)

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-04-2003, 04:31 PM
For a movie so many of you hate, you sure do discuss it a bit. I would think if you truly had hatred for the film, you'd just state your opinion once and be done with the thread once and for all. It's just my logic, that's all. I mean, it must be fun to mess with other people who liked the film and keep attempting to reiterate your opinion why you hated it, but it won't make any difference. Those of us who liked it, will always like it just as those of you who hated it, will hate it. No opinions will be changed. Just me though. I do expected a sarcastic reply, which i couldn't care less about, but if you hate the movie, leave it alone. :D

The Overlord Returns
06-04-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Guyute
For a movie so many of you hate, you sure do discuss it a bit. I would think if you truly had hatred for the film, you'd just state your opinion once and be done with the thread once and for all. It's just my logic, that's all. I mean, it must be fun to mess with other people who liked the film and keep attempting to reiterate your opinion why you hated it, but it won't make any difference. Those of us who liked it, will always like it just as those of you who hated it, will hate it. No opinions will be changed. Just me though. I do expected a sarcastic reply, which i couldn't care less about, but if you hate the movie, leave it alone. :D

I think you may have missed the posts from certain forumites who liked the film throwing about insults stating that those who hated the film "didn't get it", or really only dislike the film because of "screaming fanboyitis"........

Personally I feel insults warrant a reply.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-04-2003, 05:03 PM
That's very true, Overlord, but to what extent? You do have the right to defend yourself if attacked, but after time, time to let it go.... and you're right, i haven't read every post, cause after a while, it was simply bickering back and forth about the philosophical viewpoints in the film, whether they were "9th grade teen angst" or actual philosophies. I understand your point and i hold nothing against you, but how long can bickering back and forth about the same crap go on for? Surely there are other things you can discuss which you enjoy rather than talking about things you hated, aren't there? Just my thoughts. :)

The Overlord Returns
06-04-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Guyute
That's very true, Overlord, but to what extent? You do have the right to defend yourself if attacked, but after time, time to let it go.... and you're right, i haven't read every post, cause after a while, it was simply bickering back and forth about the philosophical viewpoints in the film, whether they were "9th grade teen angst" or actual philosophies. I understand your point and i hold nothing against you, but how long can bickering back and forth about the same crap go on for? Surely there are other things you can discuss which you enjoy rather than talking about things you hated, aren't there? Just my thoughts. :)

Sure, and I am essentially done with this thread. I've made my opinion on the film crystal clear, but I do get annoyed when I am told my opinion is really based on venemous fanboyism toward a film franchise that I am not even a bloody fanboy about. See, after this thread had lost interest for me, one of the M2 fans offered up the theory that those of us who didn't like the film didn't get it. So, I simply popped back in to point out the folly of such an argument........

Sooo.......assuming all that's done here....so am I....well..atleast until M3 comes out...but, ya never know, I might like that one ;)

James Boba Fettfield
06-04-2003, 05:18 PM
If you don't like the movie, great. If you like the movie, great. Just talk about the movie and not whatever is being discussed right now, because it sure as hell ain't "Matrix Reloaded Discussion."

That being said, the next post better relate to the Matrix Reloaded and not another log for the fire that's starting in here.

mini-rock
06-04-2003, 08:49 PM
Has anyone here seen the Animatrix, seen the movie, and played the game?

jjreason
06-04-2003, 10:50 PM
Not me, MiniRock, but Im intending to buy the Animatrix. I just saw Reloaded, and Im happy that I wasn't "too smart" to enjoy it. I loved the action, I thought the plot developed nicely (though was rushed a little over the last 30 minutes) and I think it sets the table for an exciting conclusion. I saw no problems with the effects, they blew me away. I was happy with CG Neo, he looked much more natural than CG Jango or Spider-Man, that's for sure. I think it was a smart idea to use a little "pancake" makeup on Keanu so that his CG counterpart was closer to the actor while in the matrix. The chase, the Kung Fu...money. And Monica Belucci's outfit was worth the cost of admission all by it's itty bitty stretchy naughty self. Damn. I've been a fan of the X-Men for more than half my life, but this movie made X2 about as exciting as my 2nd year Organic Chem classes at University. If was stranded on a desert island with only one summer blockbuster - I'd be taking Reloaded.

aceguide
06-05-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by mini-rock
Has anyone here seen the Animatrix, seen the movie, and played the game?

I too would like to hear from someone that has seen this. The concept sounds great, and as a fan of both movies, I would like to see more.

James Boba Fettfield
06-05-2003, 10:51 AM
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19678

sith killer owns the dvd and he started a topic about it. He's probably your best bet as to who to ask about the animatrix.

RooJay
06-05-2003, 01:34 PM
I really wanted to pick up the Animatrix (I saw the web episodes and Final Flight of the Osiris, and thought they were pretty cool), but just couldn't justify it knowing that less than a year from now it and all three Matrix movies will no doubt be available in one big, nifty little tricked out package. I hate it when I buy a DVD and a special edition with all the awesome extras that should've been available the first time around is released a few months later. I waited several years to buy Tombstone on DVD for this exact same reason. I know this is most likely gonna happen with the Matrix sequels so I'll just wait until the inevitable 'Collectors Edition Boxed Set' and pick up all four DVD's at once - WITH all of the extras.

mini-rock
06-05-2003, 02:16 PM
he reason I asked is that I have seen the Animatrix, seen the film, and played the game. t gives a lot of insight. After seeing te Animatrix DVD, I feel a bit sorry for the machines. If the humans hadn't been a bunch of asses then the war would have never happened. Thoughts?

James Boba Fettfield
06-05-2003, 02:25 PM
It reminded me of the period from post civil war to the civil rights movement in America when I watched the Renaissance ones. That's what I was thinking of while I watched it.

mini-rock
06-05-2003, 02:35 PM
Watching the director's commentary Mahiro Maeda said that he used world events for this piece. Powerful and disturbing.

jjreason
06-08-2003, 03:22 AM
I just got the Animatrix yesterday, and have been watching it piece by piece. Mixed reviews so far: I liked "Osiris", but didn't think much of "Matriculated" at the end. I think I'll watch "Kid's Story" next, as I wondered about him watching Reloaded. I like the overall look of "Detective Story" - reminds me of Pat Lee's "Dark Minds" comic books. This DVD was pretty cheap - 21.99 CDN, so I'd have to recommend it even though it's not all brilliant.

scruffziller
06-16-2003, 08:41 PM
Behold, all of its glory.



Architect: Hello Neo

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting
for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your
consciousness you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you
will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your
first question maybe the most pertinent you may or may not realize it is
also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation
inherent in the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an
anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate
from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it

remains a burden deciduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not
beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexcerably here.

Neo: You haven't answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker then the others.

Neo: Others? (What others? How many? Answer me)

Architect: The Matrix is older then you know. I prefer counting from the
emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which
case this is the sixth version.

Neo: Then there are only two possible explanations, either no one told me,
or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely, as you are undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is
systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

Neo: Choice, the problem is choice.

Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was
a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental
failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a

consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I
redesigned it, Based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying
grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated my failure. I
have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required
a lesser mind a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the
answer was stumbled upon by another, and intuitive program, initially
created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the
father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle

Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby
nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they
were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an
unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously
fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic
anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo
those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause
an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every
living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bull****

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest
assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have
become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to
return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you
carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to
select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion.
Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system
crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the
extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the
entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However
the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility
for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading
your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar
predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound
attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the
One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your
experience is far more specific, Vis a vie love.

Neo: Trinity

Architect: Apropo, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of
her own.

Neo: No

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the
fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both

beginning and end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the
source and the salvation of Zion, the door to your left leads back to the
matrix to her and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the
problem is choice. But we already know we you are going to do don't we?
Already I can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal
the onset of an emotion designed specifically to overwhelm logic and
reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious
truth, she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of
your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

Architect: We won't.

vulcantouch
06-17-2003, 12:32 AM
. . .think i'll print it up and give a good goin over, w/var. pomo philosoreftexts in ez reach, such as derrida, barthes, kristeva, whatevah ;)
vt

vulcantouch
06-20-2003, 11:21 AM
. . . i'm a lil disappointed to see that in fact i did pretty much grasp what was said the first time i watched it; was hopin there was a bit more there :p oh well, they managed to Fool me into thinking there was more there, and that in itself was fun :) meanwhile, finally posted my hump (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=259455#post259455) of it in case anyone still interested :rolleyes:
vt

scruffziller
06-22-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by vulcantouch
. . .think i'll print it up and give a good goin over, w/var. pomo philosoreftexts in ez reach, such as derrida, barthes, kristeva, whatevah ;)
vt

My brother found it somewhere.:)