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gustav meyrink
01-30-2003, 07:12 PM
hello i'm new here and have a question that I hope someone may be able to answer.

If Sidious and Palpatine are the same person why - after taking control of the galaxy does Emperor Sidious not come into being?

stillakid
01-30-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by gustav meyrink
hello i'm new here and have a question that I hope someone may be able to answer.

If Sidious and Palpatine are the same person why - after taking control of the galaxy does Emperor Sidious not come into being?

I would conjecture to say that the reason for this is that we (the audience) are joining his struggle for power while it is still in progress. He hasn't entirely wrested complete control yet.

The Prequels thus far have shown Palpatine setting up and going after (with the Clone Army) the "Separatists." He still has to set up and attack the Jedi (which we will probably see in Episode III), and he has to dissolve the Senate (which he does offscreen in Episode IV).

But even though he manages to get rid of the formal institutions which helped give the Republic a foundation, that pesky disorganized "rebellion" stands in his way of having complete control.

Because of this, he still has to put on that ruse of being a caring politician concerned with fighting those who would like to see "the Republic" dissolved, even though it is he who is trying to accomplish that.

JediTricks
01-30-2003, 09:16 PM
Almost nobody in the galaxy during the OT knows that Palpatine is anything more than a frail old man. Only Vader, Obi-Wan and Yoda seem to know this. The "frail old man" bit plays into Palpatine's evil plot. Plus, "Sidious" is just a Sith name, maybe Palpatine's ego is so overpowering that he is able to cast off his Sith name when the Jedi are wiped out.

Rogue II
01-30-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Almost nobody in the galaxy during the OT knows that Palpatine is anything more than a frail old man. Only Vader, Obi-Wan and Yoda seem to know this.

And to support that, even Tarkin tells Vader that he is all that remains of his religion. Now, weather Lucas intended it that way or not is a different story.

JediTricks
01-30-2003, 11:44 PM
Yeah, if you read some of Lucas' older stuff about SW, you'll see mentions of this stuff, as well as some VERY general explanations of the prequel-related Palpatine's rise to power... VERY general. :D

mini-rock
01-31-2003, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by Rogue II
And to support that, even Tarkin tells Vader that he is all that remains of his religion.

Tarkin was reffering to the Jedi and Obi-Wan when he had made that comment. Palpy/Sideous was not a Jedi. Well, that's unless it pops up in III that he is or was.:)

Rogue II
01-31-2003, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by mini-rock
Tarkin was reffering to the Jedi and Obi-Wan when he had made that comment. Palpy/Sideous was not a Jedi. Well, that's unless it pops up in III that he is or was.:)

I'm going to have to go read the script off of the Behind the Magic CD-Rom when I get home. I tried to watch ANH this weekend, but I kept getting distracted by my wife and daughter.

mini-rock
01-31-2003, 07:56 AM
lol! I know what you mean. The same thing happens to me quite a bit lately.:D

stillakid
01-31-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock
Tarkin was reffering to the Jedi and Obi-Wan when he had made that comment. Palpy/Sideous was not a Jedi. Well, that's unless it pops up in III that he is or was.:)

I'm actually of the mind that Tarkin felt much like Motti when it came to the Force and Jedi. Tarkin was certainly old enough to be living during the Prequels and he clearly was in some sort of position that enabled him to take advantage of the Empire's rise to power, but this doesn't mean that he ever bought into the "hocus-pocus" aspects of any of it. The way he speaks of "that ancient religion" suggests a superior attitude towards something so "intangible" and silly (to him).

He really only acknowledges "it" (Jedi, the Force) because a) Vader is bigger than he is :rolleyes: and b) because, unlike the bible thumpers of our world, Vader can "prove" the existence of the Force (by choking Motti, for instance).

But simply acknowledging that "the Force" and "the Jedi" have some validity doesn't mean he has much respect for them. Tarkin's a man of action, one who trusts in the mechanical powers of technology. Perhaps he was the overlooked child who wasn't given attention over the "midichlorian-rich" :rolleyes: children of his community.

Who knows. But whatever the reason, he was in the right place at the right time and had the right attitude (as Palpatine saw it) to get a high ranking position in the burgeoning new regime. The last thing Palpatine wanted was a bunch of "religious" folk who might turn against him. Better to hire power-hungry technology worshipers to help him destroy the Jedi and bully a galaxy. A bunch of guys whose "respect" for Palpatine might drop if they caught wind of their Emperor's "weakness" in believing in some stupid religion from eons ago. No, best for Palpatine to just keep a lid on the Darth Sidious stuff. Powerful as he is, he still needs the support of the "Force-less/God-less/Midichlorian-poor :rolleyes: humans. It would only hurt his cause in the end to reveal his Sith personae.

Rogue II
02-01-2003, 10:24 AM
Here is the dialog from the Tarkin/Vader scene:


VADER
He is here...

TARKIN
Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think so?

VADER
A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.

TARKIN
Surely he must be dead by now.

VADER
Don't underestimate the Force.

TARKIN
The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.



Tarkin either doesn't know or doesn't care about the difference between a Jedi and a Sith.

Palpatine probably leaves the wole Darth Sidious thing in the closet. He was elected legally elected Supereme Chancellor and given emergency power as Palpatine, so there is no need to bring he secret identity out. I sure hope Episode 3 can clear up a lot of questions.

AdmiralPiett
02-01-2003, 04:16 PM
Moff Jerjerrod seemed to be pretty darn scared of the Emperor. So I think that people thought of him as much more than a "frail old man".
Piett

JediTricks
02-01-2003, 05:41 PM
I think Jerjerrod was more afraid for his career than his life; besides, if the Emperor is mad, all he has to do is sick Vader upon them - that's enough to be afraid of right there.

mini-rock
02-01-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
I think Jerjerrod was more afraid for his career than his life

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. When Vader says "I hope so Commander for your sake, the Emperor is not as forgiving as I'am" Jejerrod gets this look of absolute terror on his face, and gulps a bit. This guy clearly knows of the Emperors powers.

stillakid
02-01-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by mini-rock
I'm gonna have to disagree with that. When Vader says "I hope so Commander for your sake, the Emperor is not as forgiving as I'am" Jejerrod gets this look of absolute terror on his face, and gulps a bit. This guy clearly knows of the Emperors powers.

Not necessarily. All Jejerrod has to know (and it's plausible to reason that he does) is how brutal Vader's "reprimands" can be. Jejerrrod's reaction can easily be based on his imagining just how much worse it could get. He knows that Vader is bad (X). How bad is the Emperor's (X+1)? Yikes. :eek:

Rogue II
02-01-2003, 07:35 PM
Besides Vader, and maybe Luke, I don't think anyone knows that Palpatine is a Sith. People could fear Palpatine, not because of his Force powers, but because he is ruthless. He has the has the power to promote, demote, and to have people executed.

mini-rock
02-01-2003, 07:55 PM
I guess I can agree with that too Rogue II. I guess it can go either way, and we might get a definitive answer (or not) in EPIII. Or maybe even in the AE's.:D

Rogue II
02-01-2003, 08:34 PM
That's what worries me about Episode III...there are a lot of things we need (want) cleared up, and Lucas only has 3 hours to do it.

mini-rock
02-01-2003, 10:54 PM
YOU GOTSTA HAVE FAITH PLAYYA!!:D

sith_killer_99
02-01-2003, 11:15 PM
Lucas only has 3 hours to do it.

If he takes more than 2 hours he has failed as a film maker.

He managed to convey everything he needed to in the first 3 films and keep it at the 2 hour mark or less. But then, I'm in the "he dosen't need to explain it all on film" camp.

Just my 2 cents.

mini-rock
02-01-2003, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by sith_killer_99
If he takes more than 2 hours he has failed as a film maker.

Why?

darth maul rat
03-02-2003, 06:32 PM
Hello

I know I am coming in late on this, but I kind of thought that if he is going to add more new material to the OT with the DVD's, one thing he could do is show that the whole Palpatine/Emperor thing was still there. The whole idea has been that the people of Coruscant are not evil, just mislead. If Palpatine were still just this harmless looking old guy when he goes before the Senate, people would probably not realize that he is the personification of evil. And using the Force to pull the wool over the eyes of people when it comes to his appearance shouldn't be too hard.

As for why I think the whole Sidious name disappeared, I assume at some point, both sides must realize they have been played. He only needed the name Sidious so that the Trade Federation and the rest of the coalition wouldn't know that they were being used by Palpatine to further his ends.

Just a thought...