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Beast
02-04-2003, 10:43 PM
Ugh, why can't they do justice to anything from the DC Universe. Marvel keeps having these hits, but everytime you read somthing about a DC property getting readied for the screen, the script is a total disaster. Is it really that hard to get the people working on these scripts to actually know the charecter? Or to atleast read some comic books? :stupid: This is from Aint It Cool News. I bolded the most important part, the actual conversation about the script. :(

Speaking of Michael Fleming, he was the one who floated the rumor last year that George Miller was going to sign on to direct the Warner Bros. adaptation of WONDER WOMAN. In this particular case, I’m thrilled that he turned out to be wrong (not that the infallible Michael Fleming ever mongers rumors or anything), because if one of my favorite filmmakers had ended up saddled with the nightmare that WONDER WOMAN is shaping up to be, I would have been miserable.

I’m not sure what Becky Johnston (PRINCE OF TIDES, SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET) did on the script as compared to Jon Cohen, Kimberlee Reed, or Todd Alcott. I do know that Johnston was the last writer on the film, and I was hoping she would radically rework the script I read last year. I hated it so much that I just couldn’t bring myself to review it. I couldn’t bring myself to believe it was really the direction Warner Bros. wanted to go with the film. I hoped that it was some one-draft mistake, and that they would revise it completely.

Nope.

Right now, I guess they’re looking for new writers, and drafts have gone out to various agencies. A friend at one of those agencies called me to discuss the horror with me the other day, and I’ll let him describe it to you the same way he described it to me between gasps of laughter:

”Okay, I’m no purist, but I remember a few things about WONDER WOMAN. She was an Amazon, right? Like, from the actual island of the Amazons?”

”As far as I know, yes. A Navy plane crashed on her island in WWII, and she ends up heading back with the downed pilot to check out the world of man. More or less.”

”Dude, that’s so not this film. At the start, there’s this big action scene with Wonder Woman, and her name is Diana...”

”Diana Prince. Right.”

”Only she’s not the Wonder Woman this film is about because about ten pages in, she dies.”

I sighed, knowing what he was going to explain to me. All I could do was nod as he laid it out, since it was the same exact story I’d read.

”And her suit sort of crawls out of the wreck where she died and heads for the nearest city. It finds this girl who’s just some normal girl named Donna...”

”Yeah. That’s Donna Troy.”

”Right. Well, she starts to get these powers, right? She starts changing and doing stuff like smashing doors and flying and... dude, it’s SPIDER-MAN with boobs for 20 pages or so. It’s just silly. Turns out she’s an orphan, but she’s not really an orphan, and her mom is Wonder Woman, but she’s not really dead. She’s in a coma, and when she wakes up, it’s just long enough to tell Donna she’s an Amazon, too, and then she dies again, and Donna has to become Wonder Woman.”

”Stop. Please. Stop.” I couldn’t take anymore. He told me they’re looking to hire someone to get this thing ready to cast quickly, which means this is it. This is the story they’re using. This is the way Warner Bros. has “reimagined” the archetype for the year 2004.

I just don’t get it. I know I opened and closed today’s column with comments about Warner Bros., but what the hell am I supposed to think? These people are out of their minds, and if rumors are true and DC Comics is trying to get more involved in the process, that can only be a good thing. I ran into Avi Arad and Kevin Feige outside Friday night’s screening of DAREDEVIL and talked to them for a few minutes about how work is progressing on HULK and X-MEN 2, and I ran a few rumors past Kevin (who has an admirable poker face, I must say) to see if I could get a reaction. The one thing that was impossible to miss with them is how pleased they are with the films they’re making. Avi isn’t just a toy salesman anymore, crazed by merchandising potential.

You look in his eyes now, and he’s a full-fledged fanboy. No doubt about it.

I feel bad for DC in this regard. They don’t have a choice in how their films are translated to screen, and they don’t have the muscle within the corporate structure to force Warner Bros. to pull their heads out of their asses. Instead, they’re just like the rest of us... spectators watching this amazing slow-motion car crash, one body piling up after another. I have no idea what is going to happen to this film, and since they haven’t hired a director, there’s still a chance it won’t happen, but if I’ve learned anything from watching Robinov and his circus of goons at work recently, it’s that if there is a bad choice to be made, they are fully committed to making it. If you love WONDER WOMAN, my advice is to forget this one. Just let it go. And to Warner itself, I repeat...

Stop. Please. Stop.
http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=14359

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
02-04-2003, 11:19 PM
And I thought they couldn't make it worse than casting Ben Affleck as Daredevil. Ouch...my head hurts now.:dead:

JediTricks
02-04-2003, 11:27 PM
Before even reading the 2nd sentence of the opening post in this thread I knew the answer was "Warner Brothers".

The Overlord Returns
02-05-2003, 10:01 AM
Problem with Warner Bros. is, they think they're smarter than the concepts that made these heroes icons for the last 50 years... :rolleyes:

Lord Malakite
02-05-2003, 10:50 AM
LOL. The suit crawls out of the wreck. This is going to be a pretty sad movie indeed. :D

QLD
02-05-2003, 12:18 PM
You know....I could say a LOT of things here..........but I think I'll go with......

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, I'll just watch the old TV show with Linda Carter instead. Heck, that wasn't a bad show, and it had that CATCHY theme song.

Kidhuman
02-05-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
And I thought they couldn't make it worse than casting Ben Affleck as Daredevil. Ouch...my head hurts now.:dead:

Ben Affleck is a horrible choice for Daredevil. But that Wonder Woman movie sounds even worse. The only good movie to come from DC was the original Batman(newer version, not that old Adam West with shark repellent spray). What will they think of next?

QLD
02-05-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by kidhuman
Ben Affleck is a horrible choice for Daredevil. But that Wonder Woman movie sounds even worse. The only good movie to come from DC was the original Batman(newer version, not that old Adam West with shark repellent spray). What will they think of next?

Come on!!!!!!! Bat Shark Repellant is sooooo cooooool!!!!!!

Actually, I think that may still be one of the dumbest/funniest things I have ever seen.

Kidhuman
02-05-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
Come on!!!!!!! Bat Shark Repellant is sooooo cooooool!!!!!!

Actually, I think that may still be one of the dumbest/funniest things I have ever seen.

Yeah it is funny and stupid at the same time. Almost like a Ball Point Banana

stillakid
02-05-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by kidhuman
The only good movie to come from DC was the original Batman(newer version, not that old Adam West with shark repellent spray). What will they think of next?

It's not a fair comparison. You see, in that CLASSIC Batman flick, they made a conscious choice to be over-the-top and cheesy. They knew exactly what they were doing. Everything was well-labeled and just plain funny...

The problem with most of the recent Batman movies, as well as the upcoming Daredevil, the possible Superman, and now this report of Wonderwoman is that these guys are trying to make a "cool" movie. They're not trying to be "over the top." They're serious about making a "cool" movie. Of course the irony is that it fails miserably and winds up being it's own spoof. The '60s Batman was HONEST about what it was...these new abominations aren't.

The Overlord Returns
02-05-2003, 01:36 PM
I have to wonder if the people behind these new wonder woman and superman scripts have been mainlining the spiderman "alien costume" saga from days gone by. In BOTH of these horror shows they had suits that moved around, fit in cans, bonded with characters......

Why? What purpose does having an alien costume, with sentience possibly serve in a superman, OR Wonder Woman film?

Thank god Nolan is doing the next Batman film...atleast there is hope for ole' pointy ears...

12inch Lando
02-05-2003, 02:28 PM
Oh come on you guys! How could you forget about Adam West as Batman running around a pier for 5 minutes while carrying an old time cannon ball bomb over his head and trying to get rid of it. At every turn there is a marching band or a baby in a stroller or some such in the way. That was just craptastic!

Beast
02-05-2003, 02:43 PM
"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb." :D

Yeah, it was craptastic. But it was meant to be goofy and campy, that's why it works. I wish that WB would actually look at the Marvel Movies and realize exactly where they are going wrong with these scripts. Hell, they had an almost perfect Superman Script with Kevin Smith's "Superman Lives" script, and they ditched that for the current craptastic one. :stupid: :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

12inch Lando
02-05-2003, 02:54 PM
What's the deal with Kevin Smith anyway? It's seems like every time I turn around he turns in some fantastic superhero script but it's never picked up. Is he too much of a comic book geek to make their movies? Not enough stupid, irrelevent Cloony Batman moments in his scripts?

Beast
02-05-2003, 03:03 PM
Yeah, pretty much. Marvel and DC have both had him as a guest writer, and his storylines are great. But you read the stories of him working on a script, and all the stupid ideas the producers tell him to include in the scripts, and it's almost pathetic. Like the dealings over the "Superman Lives" script. That was a pure disaster, the producer was a complete idiot. No flying, No costume, giant spider, Ugh. :dead:

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Kidhuman
02-05-2003, 03:27 PM
Well maybe they should just stop making these movies until someone can actually get them right. Spiderman was the closest I have seen so far. Batman just died after Keaton left. Althought the second one was kinda dull on the villian portion of it. They just need to find someone who can take the part for what it is worth instead of going for the flavor of the month. I am suprised J-Lo isn't gonna be Wonder Woman or something crazed like that.

I know that the original Batman was a spoof and supposed to be that way. Just some things are so outrageously ridiculous in that movie. The bomb, repellent, the ball point banana. It is a classic and I will always watch it when it is on. If not for the sheer stupidity of it then I don't know for what else.

stillakid
02-05-2003, 03:54 PM
The kiss of death in all of this is the term "reimagining." Studio execs barely can "imagine" an original concept much less "re-imagine" and old one. I get the sense that they feel that "their" version has to somehow be bigger, louder, and ultimately better then the tired old comic-book versions of the heros. Case in point, Arnold as Mr. Freeze. What in tarnation was that? It didn't look like Freeze. It didn't act like Freeze. And it didn't sound like Freeze. But it was Ahhnollld. :rolleyes:

Another more recent example is this sequel to the Jungle Book. I know nothing of the story, but both my wife and I couldn't help but roll our eyes ( like this :rolleyes: and like this :sur: ) upon hearing that the voices are done by frickin' movie stars (John Goodman and Haley Joel "can't act his way out of a box" Osmant). CLEARLY the studio felt that "star power" would have a bigger impact on audience draw than say, doing something silly like finding someone who could immitate the original voices. But if they did that, they couldn't have the big names to splash around. It all goes back to that original concept of FEAR that I've spoken about: if the movie goes sour, the exec who said "yes" can just point to the stars and say "Hey, I did everything I could to guarantee it's success. It's not my fault!" When in fact it was because he was such a gutless turd for not doing it right in the first place.

Same kind of thing going on with the comic-book movies, except with the added bonus of studio execs who want to believe that they are themselves creative souls. They'll never get it, will they? :(

Beast
02-05-2003, 04:05 PM
The problem Stillakid, is not that none of them get it. It's that some of them do. The people who make the Marvel films know the property. They respect the property. They know what the hell they're doing with it. Why the hell the people that are working on the DC stuff can't see this is beyond stupidity.

Just like the casting for Daredevil. Sure, a lot of people have complained about the casting of Ben Affleck for Matt Murdock/Daredevil. But the people that have actually seen the movie, say that he's an excellent choice. That he is Matt Murdock. I think it's the Michael Keaton syndrome. You can't visualize the actor as that charecter.

I remember when everyone was moaning and complaining that they hired Mr. Mom as Batman. But he was a kickarse Batman. It was an unconventional choice, and that's why it works. They knew to cast not for the big star, or to cast someone that fit the persona of Batman. They knew to cast someone who fit Bruce Wayne. Same goes for Daredevil. Besides, Kevin Smith is the one who suggested Affleck for the part, and K.S. knows his stuff. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

12inch Lando
02-05-2003, 04:13 PM
I actually liked the old Batman series so the movie wasnt that much of a shocker. I never read DC comics growing up. I was a Marvel only kid. The only exposure to DC stuff was from the old Superfriends show. I didn't feel that any of the characters were very compelling so I guess you could say that the cartoon turned me away from the comics. In retrospect I know that isnt fair but hey, I was a kid. What did I know. Marvel comics were cool. DC was that stuff on TV. Superman was cool but unstopable. Boring. Batman did nothing for me as a kid. Yeah... bat computer and the handy mouse compartment on his utility belt. Kasey Kasem Robin. Those are my memories of him from the cartoon. Wonder Woman= Linda Carter spinning in circles or deep voiced woman in visible, invisible jet. Aquaman sucked big time. Big Giant indian guy "Apachie Chief!!!". Carzy samuri guy. Mitzleplik. Bizaro Superman. Wonder Twins and wonder monkey. Dumb teenagers with dog. Gee... I wonder why the Superfriends didn't make me run right out and buy the comics...

stillakid
02-05-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
The problem Stillakid, is not that none of them get it. It's that some of them do. The people who make the Marvel films know the property. They respect the property. They know what the hell they're doing with it. Why the hell the people that are working on the DC stuff can't see this is beyond stupidity.

Just like the casting for Daredevil. Sure, a lot of people have complained about the casting of Ben Affleck for Matt Murdock/Daredevil. But the people that have actually seen the movie, say that he's an excellent choice. That he is Matt Murdock. I think it's the Michael Keaton syndrome. You can't visualize the actor as that charecter.

I remember when everyone was moaning and complaining that they hired Mr. Mom as Batman. But he was a kickarse Batman. It was an unconventional choice, and that's why it works. They knew to cast not for the big star, or to cast someone that fit the persona of Batman. They knew to cast someone who fit Bruce Wayne. Same goes for Daredevil. Besides, Kevin Smith is the one who suggested Affleck for the part, and K.S. knows his stuff. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

In some respects you're right, but I'll disagree on the Keaton/Batman problem. I thought he really made an awesome Bruce Wayne. Top notch portrayal. Admittedly, I would never in a hundred years put Keaton on that list of maybes, but for what he was, it worked. But I thought he made a terrible Batman. He just didn't have that imposing spark in his personae that made him a credible vigilante for me. Good Bruce Wayne. Bad alter-ego. This is why I think that the character is so interesting and has such staying power. That duality that a lot of people wish they could pull off in real life but find it difficult to (why do you think Halloween is so popular, particularly among meek women who get to dress like tramps for one night a year?). This is why casting such a part is so difficult. How to find that special person who looks and carries himself/herself for both parts? Keaton didn't do it for me nor did Kilmer. Oddly enough, the only Batman/Wayne combo that I ever thought was credible was Adam West.

I don't know exactly who I'd personally cast as a Batman as the flavor of the month changes, well, monthly. But I'd have to start by picking a great list of guys who could be Batman then see which among them could also be Bruce Wayne.

And, no, I haven't seen Daredevil so maybe those guys are right. But what I do know is that anyone that I know who has merely seen the trailer is immediately turned off by Afflecks presence as a superhero. Whether this keeps them from the theater is to be seen, but it seems to me that a studio wishing to attract that "built in" audience as well as a new one not familiar with Daredevil would want to avoid alienating the audience prior to release. Affleck was just a bad choice for that reason, regardless of how Oscar-winning his performance turns out to be.

JediTricks
02-05-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by kidhuman
I am suprised J-Lo isn't gonna be Wonder Woman or something crazed like that. A few years back, DC was considering Mariah Carrey and Sandra Bullock to be the top choices for the role! :stupid: :crazed:


I always felt Keaton did a good turn as the Batman character and a passable-yet-human version of Bruce Wayne, but the sequel added too much to both sides of the character and ended up loading him down.

QLD
02-05-2003, 09:19 PM
The wrestler/actor formerly known as Chyna has been reportedly campaigning for this role for a few years now. I pray to the movie gods that she doesn't get it.

Lord Malakite
02-05-2003, 11:52 PM
I say let Chyna have the part. If the Wonder Women movie is going to have a screwed up script with Diana dead in the first ten minutes and a suit that walks about, you might as well go all out in screwing the movie up in every possible aspect. :D

Kidhuman
02-06-2003, 10:26 AM
I think Chyna would be decent physically, but she has the most awful voice in creation.

wedgeA
02-06-2003, 04:03 PM
I think another problem is that DC is part of the whole AOL-Time Warner conglomerate, which limits their production choices to one studio. If someone over at the Frog wants to greenlight a project, but doesn't "get it", then you get crap. At least Marvel has some flexiblity when it comes that area.

I think the only DC property done well is Superman The Movie, and Superman II to a lesser extent. I thought Batman failed because they felt to be true, it only had to be dark. Well, they forgot that Batman is also the world's greatest detective, and they really just paid lip service to that in the film.

The Overlord Returns
02-06-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by wedgeA
I thought Batman failed because they felt to be true, it only had to be dark. Well, they forgot that Batman is also the world's greatest detective, and they really just paid lip service to that in the film.

I dunno, I thought his DETECTIVE work that led to his uncovering of the jokers product tampering scheme portrayed his abilities quite skillfully.....

wedgeA
02-06-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I dunno, I thought his DETECTIVE work that led to his uncovering of the jokers product tampering scheme portrayed his abilities quite skillfully.....

As I said earlier, I thought that was simply playing lip service to his ablities. It was such a minor aspect to the whole film. I think that a mystery should have been the focus of the storyline, like "Who is the Joker", with a more plot-driven ending than flying through Gotham shooting missles. Speaking of which, that whole "history" between them was ridiculous.

I think Kevin Smith was right on the money when he commented that judging by the film Burton has never read a Batman comic.

stillakid
02-06-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by wedgeA
As I said earlier, I thought that was simply playing lip service to his ablities. It was such a minor aspect to the whole film. I think that a mystery should have been the focus of the storyline, like "Who is the Joker", with a more plot-driven ending than flying through Gotham shooting missles. Speaking of which, that whole "history" between them was ridiculous.

I think Kevin Smith was right on the money when he commented that judging by the film Burton has never read a Batman comic.

I'll back you up there. The "mystery" of that storyline was almost an afterthought, really just an excuse to get back to an action sequence. Pretty uninteresting overall.

The Overlord Returns
02-07-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by wedgeA
As I said earlier, I thought that was simply playing lip service to his ablities. It was such a minor aspect to the whole film. I think that a mystery should have been the focus of the storyline, like "Who is the Joker", with a more plot-driven ending than flying through Gotham shooting missles. Speaking of which, that whole "history" between them was ridiculous.

I think Kevin Smith was right on the money when he commented that judging by the film Burton has never read a Batman comic.

Then again, focusing too much on his detective abilities would put the film in danger of being boring...

However, I agree, the relationship between the two was a horrible Idea......

I also agree with what kevin smith said........however....it was the scriptwriter who WAS well versed with Batman comics who left out the detective angles....

stillakid
02-07-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns

I also agree with what kevin smith said........however....it was the scriptwriter who WAS well versed with Batman comics who left out the detective angles....

Maybe so, but we'll never know how much pressure the WB suits put on him to keep the story moving (read: action sequences). WB admitted post Batman and Robin that they had visions of action-figures dancing in their heads, so story was never the priority in this case.

12inch Lando
02-07-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
Maybe so, but we'll never know how much pressure the WB suits put on him to keep the story moving (read: action sequences). WB admitted post Batman and Robin that they had visions of action-figures dancing in their heads, so story was never the priority in this case.

Could you expand upon that Sillakid? What I mean is did WB execs actually confess to the failure of Batman and Robin with possible explainations pointing at themselves? Can we get George Lucas some of the same substance/ truth serum they were obviously taking when they were quoted?

Eternal Padawan
02-08-2003, 11:06 AM
I have two words that will guarantee my butt in a theatre seat opening day:

*Stephanie Swift. :D







*(as anyone suffering from vynsanity knows...) :)

stillakid
02-08-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by 12inch Lando
Could you expand upon that Sillakid? What I mean is did WB execs actually confess to the failure of Batman and Robin with possible explainations pointing at themselves? Can we get George Lucas some of the same substance/ truth serum they were obviously taking when they were quoted? e
The short answer is yes, after the fact certain WB execs admitted that they had action figures in mind more than the story itself. It's been too long so I can't find the source anymore. This shouldn't surprise anyone who saw the Batman movies (after the first one anyway).

As far as George, well in the Making of piece on the Episode I DVD, he was shot saying (and it was included) something to the effect of "it's possible to screw this stuff up." I believe he was referring to TPM with the context of American Grafitti II in mind. While the time in which he said it would have been pre-release, the fact that it was included (and we can presume that he was aware of it) could be considered as a kind of admission. I believe the producers of the DVD considered the statement to be prophetic in which case they dug it out of the mountains of footage so they could include it.

12inch Lando
02-09-2003, 05:07 PM
With stuff like Wonder Woman on the horizon you've really gotta wonder if the guys at WB have learned their lesson.

evenflow
02-10-2003, 07:22 AM
That sucks.