View Full Version : Conflicts between Jedi and Love

11-12-2001, 03:27 PM
I looked through the post, about padme and if she will or will not die, and I think it is likely. By that I mean, something very strange will happen with padme, obi, and anakin. Now, the question is what and why? I believe the concept of love and devotion as a jedi will have some effects to Anakin and his turn to the darkside. Surly he will be coached by palaptine, who may turn out to have some powerful effect over Ani, but I think that something must happen that just SNAPS the little boy out of Ani and brings to us the dark side of Anakin Skywalker. A lot of hate between Anakin and Obi is seen during ANH, as they reflect over old times and vader drools at the chance of finishing him off. So, I think Obi does something that trigers Anakin into rage. What is that though? It must have something to do with Padme. They are lovers, but does obi interfere? This brings me to the mystery trailer, in that, why was obi in padme's apartment? However, the way E2 ends, I think, will be rather peacefully, as in relations between obi and ani. But in E3, obi must do something. Either it is figured out that he is with padme intimately, or it could be that obi was supposed to be protecting padme and somehow he failed and she was killed. Anakin takes his hatred out on obi and they fight. Obi wins the battle, leaving Anakin injured and that leads to our favorite villain of all time, Darth Vader. You may ask, well, how does Leia remember her Mom dieing at a very young age. Well, if your mom died at age 5 you would remember, but not much. So, perhaps her mom does live, but it could be either a clone, or her real mom. If it is her real mom, then perhaps what is believed to have been killed (by ani) was padme's clone and the real padme was hiding already. Well, please expand and correct parts of my theories.

Rollo Tomassi
11-12-2001, 06:11 PM
First off, nothing happens between Obi Wan and Padme intamately. BUT, since padme and Obi Wan both sense Anakin slipping to the dark side, they will turn to each other for solace. Palpatine will "encourage" Anakin to see this growing bond between Obi Wan and Padme as 'something intimate" Palpatine will assure Anakin that he is Ani's only true friend and suck him further into the evel machinations of the Dark Side. Padme will realize that Palpatine is Sidious and that she and the two Jedi actually helped him rise to power. Since she can no longer trust Ani, she goes to Obi Wan to tell him everything. It will finally come to a head when Anakin "catches" Obi Wan and Padme together (after being "tipped off" by Palpatine. Padme will bear witness as Obi Wan and Anakin duel each other in a very emotional and drawn out lightsaber duel. During this confrontation, padme is wounded (either by Obi Wan or Anakin) and Anakin topples over the edge where he is hanging on by his hand and slipping. Obi Wan reaches out to his friend, pleading with him to come back to the light. Anakin, thinking Padme is dead, refuses and lets himself into the molten pit. His body is recovered and he is transformed into Darth Vader. Meanwhile, Obi Wan and the wounded padme rendezvous with Mace and Yoda to discuss escaping Coruscant because padme is pregnant with Skywalkers heir(s) and doesnt want them to fall into Palpatines hands.. Obi Wan manages to get them off planet by using himself as a decoy. he then comes face to face with the New Vader. After some harsh words, Vader tells Obi Wan to leave and never come back, showing his last ounce of compassion for his former master. Obi Wan leaves the planet and meets up with padme. She goes onto Alderaan, weak and wounded to survive only a few more years with Leia, and Obi Wan takes the infant Luke first to dagobah to drop off Yoda, then to tattoine, where he leaves Luke with Owen and Beru and then heads off into the tatooine Sunset...

11-12-2001, 10:09 PM
I see a lot of what your saying as possible. However, what I'm really after is what will happen in the movies and when. What does everyone think or know? Will ani fall to the darkside at the end or e2 or e3. I can't really conceive Ani falling into a pit, and then quickly being put into a outfit that will support his life and reveal the Darth Vader that we all know and love. I kind of thought that he would fall, and then, leading into E4 would be ani talking with his new life support system about the darkside or whatever, and then role the credits. I can't even begin to see the screen play go from him falling, to him back on his feet talking to obi again. I don't know. This has me lost for ideas.

Rollo Tomassi
11-12-2001, 10:28 PM
Well, the rumor is James Earl Jones is coming in to do the last 20 minutes of the movie. That's a sizable chunk of film as far as finales go.

Also, George said he shot one scene for Episode III while they were in Tunisia shooting Episode II. He felt it was silly to lug a crew of sixty+ people back out into the desert to shoot one scene three years from now. Speculation says it's Obi Wan dropping Luke off at the Lars homestead and wandering off into the sunset.

Third, in ANH Vader says "You should not have come back..." implying that he told Ben not to come back. This would have to be AFTER he gets dropped in boiling lava.

Fourth, whilst talking about the Prequel trilogy G. Lu has made several references to Othello. If your up on your shakespeare, you know there's a nasty love triangle involved.

I'm just kind of smooshing all these various rumors into my own personal treatment of EP III....

The 'Xir
11-13-2001, 02:32 AM
The main thing that will be the "snap", for Anakin that atleast will seal his fate down the dark path, is the death of his Mother!

Now, if anything happens between Obi, Ani, and Padme, It's probably the fact that The Jedi code forbids, marriage or personal romance all together. So when Obi-wan tries to enforce this, Ani turns on his teacher, like a child rebeling against a parent?

Did you see the EpII teaser poster? HINT HINT! ...

"A Jedi shall not know anger, Nor hatred... Nor Love!"

Let's see Mother killed, Jedi/Obi-wan's stupid rules, Plapatine's physcological warfare, and Ani thinking that Padme's dead, I'd say that would about do it!

The 'Xir
11-13-2001, 02:43 AM
Oh and let me just say, I can see Palaptine hinting that Obi wan and Padme are getting it on to Anakin, and then setting them up to make it look like somethings going on, then Ani storming off, not knowing the real truth! But nothing would actually be going on between the two! Just two friends consoling each other!
Also, Like I mentioned above I see Ani and Padme's relationship being more along the lines of Romeo and Juliet! Except that in this case The boy will think the girl is dead then commit or act in a slef-destructive way. Meaning instead of actually commiting suicide, Ani will go off on some tangent because he thinks Padme's dead, and this path he chooses will be a metaphor for self destruction!

11-13-2001, 02:47 AM
Yes, yes, a million and one things may lead to the "snap", but in filming a movie and getting that across to an audience is different. During the movie, something will trigger Ani and turn him to the dark side. Much like when Vader said to Luke, "so, you have a twin sister..." That ultimately was enough for luke to lunge out and attack his father with all of the hate in his body. This to, may happen to Ani, but what will be said, what will be done, what causes this hate to come forward.
Also, it was said by Rollo Tomassithat, that James Earl has 20 min of film time, WOW! I don't know if I can believe that. That would be a major part of the film. I thought it was only like 5 min. Good point with Othello and great point with the , "you shouldn't have come back." That really makes since with your theory.

Rollo Tomassi
11-13-2001, 10:07 AM
I completely agree that nothing is going on between Padme and Obi Wan, as I stated in my very first sentence. Anakin just thinks there is because Palpatine tells him so. Also, as far as the third film goes, there is still the matter of Count Dooku to be resolved, as well as the Mace Windu/Boba Fett conflict. Thats alot to wrap up in 2 hours....

Co Jo-Da
11-13-2001, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
I completely agree that nothing is going on between Padme and Obi Wan, as I stated in my very first sentence. Anakin just thinks there is because Palpatine tells him so. Also, as far as the third film goes, there is still the matter of Count Dooku to be resolved, as well as the Mace Windu/Boba Fett conflict. Thats alot to wrap up in 2 hours....

I agree totally...there is still so much that needs to happen and I can't wait to see it, plus GL had said the Episode III will be very very dark and from the looks of it Episode II is going to be very, very dark as well. MAN I'M EXCITED...AREN'T YOU?

The 'Xir
11-13-2001, 07:51 PM
NOPE!.... ok maybe just a little;)

11-13-2001, 10:01 PM
I don't think that Anakin's mother's death is what pushes him to the dark side. She dies in AOTC but then Anakin gets married and starts his life with Padme. So he's upset, but he's not off on his own being angry and depressed. Something in EIII is what turns him to the dark side. And I think it is the relationship between Padme and Obi-Wan.

GL has referred to Othello on countless occasions when referring to EII and EIII. He wouldn't mention this unless he was implying the "love triangle" between the 3.

Also, GL said that you see Vader, in his black armor, throughout the last 1/3 or so of EIII. But then too, he doesn't know he has children.

Lots of questions, no answers....

11-14-2001, 08:56 AM
After Shmi's death, Anakin has no one to turn to but Padme. So his love for her deepens immensely. Which could lead to his decision to go against the Jedi order against marrying.

Rollo Tomassi
11-14-2001, 02:37 PM
So waht do you guys think of the dangling plots of Dooku and Fett/Windu?

I think that similar to Obi Wan throwing Vader off the trail of Padme, Mace Windu will use himself as bait to slow down Vader's #1 Bounty Hunter: The now 16 year old Boba Fett. During a fateful battle, Mace gets "disintegrated" (possibly becoming one with the force as Obi Wan and Yoda did) but to Fett it will look like disintegration. He will report this back to Vader (who wanted Windu alive because he knows the whereabouts of Padme). From then on, Vader has to warn Fett...

"No disintegrations..."

I still don't know how they deal with Dooku. But it will probably happen towards the beginning of the movie (kind of like Jabba's demise in ROJ) because the middle act will be Obi Wan vs Anakin and the third act will be Vader's rise and the escape to Alderaan/Tatooine. Any thoughts?

Rollo Tomassi
11-15-2001, 09:58 AM
Okay, now I'm really thinking about this whole Dooku thing. I think the third movie will parrallel the fifth. It will start out with a giant battle at the beginning as the Rebublic/Imperial forces attack Dooku's stronghold. Dooku has outlived his usefullness as far as Palpatine is concerned, who has now set his sights on converting Anakin to be his next apprentice. The movie will open with a 'Saving Private Ryan"(in scale, not in gore and violence) type invasion led by General Kenobi, Anakin, and Bail Organa amongst others ("General Kenobi, you once served my father...") where Count Dooku is defeated. Before he dies, he makes a cryptic remark, that doesn't sit well with Obi Wan and the others, about Palpatine. By this time, Palpatine has situated himself with enough power to be calling himself Emperor. While many cheer his efforts to get the galaxy in line, others like Mon Mothma and Bail Organa are appalled by his tactics, and begin talking of rebellion. Padme goes to confront Palpatine about what Dooku said, and the Emperor gleefully explains that everything has transpired according to his wishes, including Padme getting him elected 12 years ago. Distraught, she runs to find Anakin, and finds Obi Wan instead and tells him everything. This is when Ankin walks in and finds them together and thinks something is going on....

What do you guys think? It's out of order, but I basically just gave away the entire third film in the above posts. Anybody have any dissenting remarks or other thoughts? I'd love to hear them.

Jedi Clint
11-15-2001, 02:03 PM
A friend suggested to me that Anakin is impressed with the type of power that Dooku possesses.......more than impressed infatuated! I agree!

When E3 opens, Padme will not have seen Anakin for several months. She hasn't even told him she is pregnant. Kenobi will not have seen his former pupil for longer still. He has been serving on Alderaan during the Clone Wars while Anakin (Palpatine's golden boy) has been crushing the Confederacy's forces in every skirmish he is involved with. Where his duty to the Jedi left him unfulfilled, his duty to Palpatine and the Republic's military machine has satisfied his desire for accomplishment and Palpatine's praise fulfills yet another of Anakin's deep seated needs - recognition. The relationship between Anakin and Padme had been soured by his devotion to the war effort, and his lack of attention to their relationship. Not that Anakin didn't enjoy the time. War changes a person though. To Padme Anakin is no longer the same person. The opening of the film sees a decisive victory for the Republic led by Skywalker (it may also see the end of Dooku). A meeting between both sides takes place and the Confederacy stipulates that they will only pledge allegiance to one man - Palpatine. When the two factions reunite the Empire is born. Kenobi seeks out Anakin and Padme only to find Padme pregnant and distraught about Anakin's present state and location. Kenobi promises to seek out his former apprentice and bring him back. When he finds him, he begins to question his actions and chastise him for what he (Kenobi) sees as questionable or less-than-Jedi behavior. Anakin no longer needs his former Master's praise, or advice. A fight between the 2 breaks out (perhaps in Palpatine's presence), and Skywalker is left mutilated at is close. A period of time passes off screen. It is during this time that Palpatine teaches Anakin that hatred makes one powerful - making the same type of power Dooku had displayed available to him. He can regain his prior glory and return to his side by learning the ways of the Sith. Kenobi knows Palpatine's true nature and informs his fellow Jedi. They have no choice but to rebel against the Emperor at the peak of his popularity. Now branded traitors, the Jedi are hunted by the Empire and even it's citizens turn the Jedi in for reward. Palpatine's new apprentice, Darth Vader, sets out to find his wife and Kenobi. Imperial forces led by Vader close in on Kenobi, Padme, Yoda, the droids, and their associates who decide to flee. Padme is on the verge of giving birth to her twins. Kenobi prepares the group to flee the area, but senses a disturbing presence. He seeks out its source and is confronted by Vader. An intense struggle to rival their first confrontation takes place. Kenobi either flees, or is allowed to leave by Vader. The chase takes to the stars. Vader watches the small vessel containing Kenobi and co as it evades capture. In a desperate move Kenobi performs a near suicidal maneuver that leaves Vader to wonder if he has perished. Palpatine has a vision of a child that will destroy him. Upon his return Vader tells Palpatine that Kenobi must have perished. On Alderaan Bail Organa promises his friend Kenobi to watch over Padme and her daughter. The next scene is Kenobi landing on Tatooine and delivering the infant Luke to Owen with the charge of watching over "their only hope".

Granted as soon as we start getting spy reports and official info on the next film I am sure this theory will evolve.