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The 'Xir
02-24-2003, 04:44 PM
I first was going to resurface an old thread about "Dooku's Fate", but then thought to myself, self this is really about Palpatine so here goes:
Well, I got thinking about just how evil or ingenious Palpatine(lucas) really is! Palpatine is looking for universal supremecy! He discovers an ancient religion that he is able to master but he needs time and patience to carry out his plans. He probably thinks that he will just train younger apprentices in the Sith ways of 1 master and 1 apprentice, however he may not yet know the details of whom he may train! However, first he creates an alter ego for himself Lord Sidious the Sith Master, to rival his day job as an bright-eyed and eager young politician. This way he can avoid blame if things don't go according to his plans!
During his "day job", he befriends many a senator and high level businessmen bending their beliefs towards his ideology, and probably confronting some of them as Sidious once he determines who is corrupt and weak! All the while training a promising young Zabrak named Maul.
He Understands that in order to be in any position of power you must control or influence Lawmakers and Financial institutions, and by corrupting the weak and destroying the strong! So he bogs down the Senate and High Courts in mundane proceedings to instill in the citizens of the Republic a sense of futility that their government doesn't work! But realizing one of the stronger more willful senators is a young Amidala from his own planet. So, he stirs up a trade dispute in this far away system knowing most common citizens of the core worlds could careless for such matters elsewhere! However, he plans this, setting up the vunerable and weak Neimoidians, not for the purpose of controlling an insignifcant taxation controversy, but to create an adversary of his Political hurdle in Senator Amidala! Once again pushing away any blame that could be directed his way! So just as he created a duality for himself, once Darth Maul was destroyed and he needed a new apprentice he creates an alter-ego, if you will for the very government he is trying to take over, in the separatists! Knowing this will scatter the Jedi and compound their commitments to order, making them divided and vunerable! Seeing and sensing the Great power that lies within young Anakin Skywalker, he takes on a new apprentice in Count Dooku, to help control the senate, the Jedi and organize the already corrupterd members of the Trade federations, banking clans, and Techno Unions, until Anakin is old enough to realize his potential. Always keeping Anakin close though, becoming that father figure for him that he never had, so when the time comes Anakin will have complete faith that his "Father" is a just and righteous leader!
This is the truely amazing aspect of Palpatines plans, that he has not only setup the entrie galaxy to fall in line with his Ideology, but he has constructed and setup this puppet, his own pupil in Dooku, to take the fall for all his evil doings so it will look like it was Dooku's corruption and not his own. That way he can step in and pronounce how, The government doesn't work, The Jedi have brought the galaxy into ruins(through Dooku), and that he has a New Order with "the prodigal son" (the saviour) in Anakin as his main tool, just as everything and everyone else was simply and only a tool, for his weilding to power!

Reading this, this may seem obvious to all of you, but I think it's the last part, for me anyways, that solidified how evil Palpatine truely is! Setting up Dooku is and will be the final piece in Palpatines long awaited puzzle for his Grand Design to power! Ontop of that it should be bloody fun-as-all-hell to watch, when it's finally shown in EpIII!!! :evil:

Beast
02-24-2003, 05:05 PM
Palpatine is one of the most intresting charecters of the prequels, I have to admit. So much so, that it's really unfortunate that he's not a more visible part of the OT. He's the ultimate puppet master, twisting and manipulating everyone and everything he can. In order for everything to occur as he has forseen.

Before the prequels I always considered Emperor Palpatine from ROTJ, a fairly unintresting 2-dimensional charecter. He was just the old evil man, just taunting Luke. Atleast until the dark side lighting, but he still didn't have much substance. And we only heard him brag how he's manipulated everything to lure everyone into checkmate. So it's nice to see it wasn't just talk.

I eagerly await EIII to see his intricate plan finally bare fruit. The political manuvering and his Iago-like manipulations of Amidala in E1 were excellent. His fatherly stroking of Anakin's ego and his gentle persuading of the events in E2 were masterful. Seeing the final moves and the checkmate played in E3 are hopefully going to be impressive, most impressive. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Darth Trymybestus
02-24-2003, 08:27 PM
Palpatine is such a schemer that I thought he was a good guy when I first saw the Phantom Menace until the very end when Mace says "which was destroyed, the master or the apprentice?".
I think it's awesome how in the old trilogy, we had the evil Darth Vader and then the ultimate bad guy is a haggard, cackling, evil old man with a walking stick but he proved to be the ultimate bad guy.

By the way... there is a moment in Episode II where Palpatine truly looks like Emperor Palpatine, it's when he says "an old friend... like Master Kenobi", just look at the smile and you'll see what I mean. :)

kdp100
02-25-2003, 06:51 AM
He discovers an ancient religion that he is able to master

Interesting thought - I'd always assumed Palpatine to be simply the latest in a long unbroken tradition of Sith Masters, but if (in the words of Ki-Adi Mundi) "the Sith have been extinct for a millenium" then it seems entirely possible that Palpatine has revived the tradition single-handedly.
This then prompts the question of how he learned or otherwise gained his powers of force-lightning and so on, but maybe he didn't NEED a master?

I'd never thought along those lines before, and I'm hoping we get to hear more about Palpatine's background in Episode 3.

Darth Trymybestus
02-25-2003, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by kdp100
"the Sith have been extinct for a millenium" then it seems entirely possible that Palpatine has revived the tradition single-handedly.

You were actually right about Palpatine being the latest in a long line, the Sith haven't been extinct for a millenium, they have just kept a low profile.
They have been biding their time for the right moment to strike and destroy the Jedi order and rule the Galaxy... and boy did they ever! :crazed: :)
Yeah, a thousand years does seem like a long time but hey, it's Star Wars! :D
So Palpatine obviously was an apprentice to a Sith Lord and when that Sith Lord died, Palpatine recruited Darth Maul and the rest is history... :)

I'll bet that Palpatine's years as a Padawan (his college years so to speak), will be explored in the EU when Lucas finishes his movies. :)

dirtybones
02-25-2003, 09:20 AM
[QUOTE], the Sith haven't been extinct for a millenium, they have They have been biding their time for the right moment to strike and destroy the Jedi order and rule the Galaxy

" at last we will reveal our selfs to the Jedi, at last we will have our revenge "

It's all coming together!!! Heee Heeee Hee:D :D :D

The 'Xir
03-01-2003, 03:46 PM
I haven't read the novelaztions of Episode I or II in awhile, so I don't know if they mentioned anything; but if I remember correctly, the TRUTH is that we don't know anything about Palpatines past!
Now, the reference to Palpatine "discovering" an ancient religion, is based on a strong belief among fans and alluded to or slightly explored by Dark Horse comics; that Palpatine came upon an ancient Sith temple(i think either erected by or in honor of Exar Kun) filled with Sith secrets and technology. Some say that the Temple or temples are the ones on Yavin4 moon that the rebeles end up using later as their base in EpIV.
Now it's possible that he may have had a Master or how else would his talents have been discovered? If he had been a Jedi that left the order, the Jedi would know of him, which can't be! Seeing as how he most likely was born and raised on Naboo, it's probable that his talents went undiscovered(like Anakins were) by the Jedi seeing as Naboo is an outer rim, out of the way planet like Tatooine
Stictly based on the movies, Goerge has left his past so open that actually both these possiblities could be true! He may have had a Master that showed him the ways of the Sith, but he then stumbled upon the Sith Temple with all those lost secrets and technology. If that ends up being the case, I'll even go as far as to say that he may have grown so powerful so fast that he murdered his own master to take over the order and begin training his own apprentices as the start of his grand design for the universe!

INDIANA
03-01-2003, 04:25 PM
I had the thought that Senator Palpatine was a clone, Darth Sidious using him as a puppet as well. That help explains why nearly the entire Jedi High Council could be in the same room with him and not realize he was Darth Sidious....because he's not. He's a clone of Darth Sidious doing his every bidding, probably in some sort of telepathic connection. At some point in E3, Chancellor Palpatine is done away with and Darth Sidious takes his place as , well, himself.

TheDarthVader
03-02-2003, 01:41 PM
Nope...definately not a clone.
From the official star wars site about palpatine:The Emperor was a scheming ruler, planning events far in the future, using the Force to foresee the results. Palpatine allowed Rebel spies to learn of the location of the second Death Star, and foresaw their strike team and fleet assault. Palpatine crafted an elaborate trap that was to be the end of the Rebellion. <end> Notice how the emperor and palpatine are referred to as one in the same.
And now from the site about sidious: In the resulting political upheaval, Supreme Chancellor Valorum was voted out of office, to be replaced by the ambitious Senator Palpatine. And despite the death of his prized apprentice, none of the Jedi knew for sure of Sidious' existence, or of his true identity. <end> Of course, his true identity is Senator Palpatine. :)

TheDarthVader
03-02-2003, 01:43 PM
OH! And the jedi didn't know that he was sidious because of what yoda says in AOTC, "The dark side clouds everything."

The 'Xir
03-04-2003, 10:57 PM
Also, I think the clone Idea has to be done away with because, then Palpatine would lose all of his ingeniousness and especially evilness, because now there would be two people schemeing together, and not one truly evil and ingenious mastermind behind the whole thing!:evil:

TheDarthVader
03-07-2003, 05:41 PM
as posed by The 'Xir:
one truly evil and ingenious mastermind behind the whole thing!

EXACTLY! That's what makes Lucas a genius...to think of how Palpatine would manipulate people to do his evil will and play on "both sides of the fence".

AndyW
03-13-2003, 04:40 AM
Excellent thread The 'Xir, I can't wait to see all of palpatines threads come together, the moment when the jedi realise that they've had the wool pulled over their eyes and that theres nothing they can do will be a very powerfull moment a la the fight scene between Luke and vader in ROTJ. I just love that bit, the music, the drama, pure star wars.

I also like how the Emperors over confidence can now be finally understood. I was always annoyed by his Bond villian style cockyness in ROTJ, but now, seeing about how he in effect brought down the Republic and the Jedi Order, you can understand why hes so convinced he can't fail.

TheDarthVader
03-13-2003, 10:54 PM
Right on, AndyW. Good comments there! :)

The 'Xir
03-13-2003, 11:09 PM
Aren't all of those scenes in the Thrown Room in RotJ just great Andy? The writing is some of the best in all the movies! It's great because it's actually a revelation for us all that Luke tells us, when he tells the Emperor, "your overconfidence is your weakness!"; because he knows that he has exposed the Emperors flaws and that the Emperor can no longer hide behind lies and deceit. That the Emperor will be defeated! That his faith in his friends, and more importantly in his family, is not his weakness but his salvation!:happy: