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stillakid
03-11-2003, 09:30 PM
As semi-interesting as the political maneuverings of Palpatine are in Star Wars, and as semi-interesting as the lil' creatures of LOTR are, none of that compares to the intricate weavings and epic scope of the DUNE series.

Unfortunately, bringing the story to the screen has been a constant challenge, limited by the shear size of the story and hampered by budget. The best effort yet was the recent mini-series shown on the Sci Fi network. The next chapter in the saga, Children of Dune, is set to air this Sunday at 9pm. I haven't seen it, so I can't vouch for it specifically, but I highly recommend the books if you have had any interest in Star Wars or LOTR. George borrowed heavily from DUNE, as you'll see, so many things will seem familiar.

http://www.scifi.com/dune/index.html

Eternal Padawan
03-12-2003, 07:31 AM
I plan on reading these before I sit down and watch the Sci-Fi mini series (both of them, with more to come I assume?) and then as an afterthought I might go back and watch the Lynch butchering from the 80's.

It's all on my to do list. :)

Spice smuggling originally came from the Dune series, didn't it? Then there's that whole desert planet motif. And the Krayt dragon remains on Tatooine were originally an homage to the giant sandworms wasn't it?

Alright you've convinced me. I'm going to go pick up the first book today.

r2dee2
03-12-2003, 09:20 AM
Thanks for the heads up stillakid! I may watch it Sunday or wait for it to be released without the million commercials, on DVD:( Guess the Children of Dune mini series will be based on the next 2 books, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.

I preferred the TV mini series of the first Dune to Lynch's movie version, so I have high hopes for this Children of Dune. Alice Krige (Borg Queen) is an interesting choice as Lady Jessica:)

More info on the books can be found here (http://www.dunenovels.com/)

stillakid
03-12-2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
I plan on reading these before I sit down and watch the Sci-Fi mini series (both of them, with more to come I assume?) and then as an afterthought I might go back and watch the Lynch butchering from the 80's.

I assume you'll pick them up on DVD and skip the TV airing? ;) And don't punish yourself with the Lynch "version." It bears little similarity to the actual story. After reading the novels, you'll find it preferable to sit down in front of a Pauly Shore marathon starting with back to back viewings of BioDome.

Like I said before, the mini-series effort for DUNE suffered from budget or lack thereof. But the essence of the story is definitely there. It's too bad the LOTR allotment couldn't be redirected to a story with actual depth and character development. But from the pre-interviews I've read, it looks like this next installment will pay off better visually. Got my fingers crossed.

In the meantime, I will start reading the latest chapter of the series, The Butlerian Jihad, in the near future.

Mandalorian Candidat
03-13-2003, 11:32 AM
I tried reading Dune in high school and thought it was the most friggin plodding book ever. It seemed to go nowhere really fast. Maybe if I went back and read it again I'd change my mind.

I actually liked the Lynch version but don't know how it compares with the one with William Hurt that came out a few years ago. Seeing Sting and the FBI Agent from Twin Peaks in a knife fight, IMO, was the high point of mid-80's cinema. :rolleyes:

I watched a promo on SciFi a couple of nights ago about the women of dune and it made me interested in watching the miniseries. I hope I can follow it without having read the sequels first.

stillakid
03-14-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Mandalorian Candidat
I tried reading Dune in high school and thought it was the most friggin plodding book ever. It seemed to go nowhere really fast. Maybe if I went back and read it again I'd change my mind.

I actually liked the Lynch version but don't know how it compares with the one with William Hurt that came out a few years ago. Seeing Sting and the FBI Agent from Twin Peaks in a knife fight, IMO, was the high point of mid-80's cinema. :rolleyes:

I watched a promo on SciFi a couple of nights ago about the women of dune and it made me interested in watching the miniseries. I hope I can follow it without having read the sequels first.

On first read, the first book does indeed seem to take forever. But the complexity of the universe Herbert created makes Palpatines simple little plan seem like childs play. Herbert lays the groundwork for and uses so many elements in the story, from entire cultures and societies, to the environmental, religious, economical, and sociological, that if you're used to seeing or reading simplisitic stories (like LOTR or Star Wars) then it will feel like "too much." As the books say, there are "plans within plans within plans." The guy was a frickin' genius. He was even accused at one point of trying to start a cult because the story was so entirely thought out and realized.

JediTricks
03-18-2003, 10:53 PM
So far, this miniseries has been mega-confusing... even compared to the first one. It feels like they're trying to cram too much into the 4.5 hours they have (1.5 of the 6 total hours is allocated to commercials and station IDs). Tonight's the last one, I hope it can clean up the mess.

On the up side of the equation, almost nothing feels cheap unlike most of the desert scenes in the first miniseries... scratch that, nothing feels cheap except for Susan Surandon's scenes. I dunno, she feels like she's there half the time and then just phoning it in the other half, and the sets and camerawork seem that way too.

stillakid
03-19-2003, 10:12 AM
I haven't watched it yet. Had to tape them all. I'm not surprised by the confusion though. I think to really do this story justice onscreen, it'd have to be a full season of episodes. Too much to cram into a small space. Then again, some books are better left to the page unless someone is brave enough to commit the resources necessary to really do it right. I haven't read LOTR, but I get the same feeling from that mess that I hear about new people watching Dune. LOTR has a nice glossy sheen, but it's sitting on a thin shell of plot and character development. I assume the books are much better.

Mandalorian Candidat
03-19-2003, 12:55 PM
I watched the whole thing and really didn't find it to be that confusing, as far as following the plot line. Figuring out the motivations behind the characters' actions was tough though. There's still a bunch of stuff I don't understand which is probably better explained in the two books they're based on.

What irritates me about the whole thing is that everyone is on the edge. In the book (I'm almost done reading Dune for the second time) every friggin character is plotting about something or worrying about not offending everyone else or trying to conform to some wacky code of ethics.

The story's fine in terms of having a big saga, but it doesn't have the same feel of fun or adventure that SW or LOTR has.

IMO the highlight of the CoD miniseries was the part where Leto II was merged with the worm and had ultrafast speed, kicking A on all those guards.

Jargo
03-27-2003, 05:02 PM
haven't seen this yet because we haven't had a terrestrial channel buy it up yet. I saw the trailer and website for the first series though and it looked a lot more like I envisioned the places and characters in my head when I first read Dune years ago. Lynch did what he thought was best and with a lot of interference from the exec. Dino DeLaurentis. They filmed in mexico and nothing worked so the fact that Lynch managed to get a film out at all is amazing. Plus Carlo Rambaldi screwed up big time with his phallic worms and that booger for a third stage guild navigator. IMO to be true to Dune you'd have to make it a two part movie just for the first book alone. I never bothered to read any further books but I might at least read the sequel. if I remember right heretics of Dune is the third book?
I'm really curious to see the first series though.

JT, the deseret scenes look cheap in series 1? Any cheaper than the desert scenes in the movie?

IMO LOTR is the most plodding series of books and the most depressing ever written. Dune was like a breeze in comparison. I really got into all the societal descriptions, the way the Fremen society worked was so detiled in the book, the high society structure of the Emperor and the subtle ways the bene geserit manouvred people to follow their will reminds me that the jedi do the same. Lucas didn't just borrow from herbert he stole wholesale. If you pick apart star wars it has Dune stamped all over it. Dune the book happens to be classier and more cohesively thought through and implemented as a stream of characters and situations. Dune has immense depth whereas star wars is merely light fluff. Dune is for thinking about as you watch or read and star warts is just popcorn entertainment that uses Dune as a skeleton from which it hangs various other wholesale pillages. George is a magpie, he likes the shiny parts of other peoples work and uses their genius to make himself look talented. George isn't talented at anything other than stealing the thunder. He has everyone else do his work for him.

Sorry started to rant there. Dune and children of dune. I'm jealous that you people get to see this stuff. I'll be lucky if i can find the damn thing on VHS let alone DVD. This country is so tinpot where SCI-FI is concerned. If it isn't bloody Dr. Who then you can't have it. Damn stupid. :mad:

JediTricks
03-27-2003, 06:59 PM
Though I never read Dune, I have to agree with you on LOTR; but I dig the movies a lot - that was a major surprise to me.

I don't remember the Lynch movie's desert scenes, but in the SFC miniseries of Dune, the bulk of the outdoor desert scenes look like a play rather than a movie, with actors standing in front of a 2-dimensional backdrop and some sand piled at the footlights. This was my main complaint with the miniseries, which I found otherwise enjoyable.

Anakin2121
03-27-2003, 07:29 PM
I enjoyed this show a lot! It followed the book well, and all the roles were perfectly cast and well-performed.
Is it me...or was there a lot of potent sexuality on this show? There was one sex scene in each episode, IIRC, but I was surprised by just how much they showed, especially since it was rated TV-PG. Maybe it is just me. :)

sith_killer_99
03-27-2003, 08:39 PM
I enjoyed the series (mini-series) and watched the whole thing straight through last weekend. They played Dune and Children of Dune...12 hours long!!!

I did miss some of the movie and got a bit lost, the plots are very complex.

BTW, CoD will be out on DVD May 20th!

Dune is out on DVD now if I'm not mistaken.

JediTricks
03-28-2003, 06:42 PM
Anakin, I know what you mean, they went pretty far with that, and in that way it felt a little out of place simply because it isn't often they go that route with TV, even basic cable. Are you sure it was a TV-PG? I didn't pay attention, but it seemed like just from the violence it would be a TV-MA. Man is the TV ratings system stupid!

Eternal Padawan
04-14-2003, 05:52 PM
I'm about halfway through the first book. Did Patrick Stewart play Thifur Hawat in the film? It might be a hoot to go back and watch this after reading it. I am definitely going to get the mini series version.

I'll probably start a thread in the book forums about this one. See you all there!

Mandalorian Candidat
04-15-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
I'm about halfway through the first book. Did Patrick Stewart play Thifur Hawat in the film? It might be a hoot to go back and watch this after reading it. I am definitely going to get the mini series version.

I'll probably start a thread in the book forums about this one. See you all there!

Hey EP. Patty boy was actually Gurney Halleck. Freddie Jones played Thufir. I actually prefer the GH from the miniseries as Patty seemed somewhat wooden in Lynch's Dune. He did give the best line out of the whole movie: "Mood is for cattle and love-play, boy!"

I rented the 3-disc director's cut from the local library because I didn't see it the first go around. I have to say it's not bad. It's really different from Lynch's version and I have a hard time comparing the two because they both have such different feels.

If you're planning on getting the mini-series on DVD, go to deepdiscountdvd.com (http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com). They have the director's cut (3-disc) for $13.29 with no tax and free shipping. I ordered mine last night.

stillakid
04-15-2003, 04:51 PM
The David Lynch version is an abomination that has very little to do with the story you'll read in the novel. Apart from the title, the character names, and the places, it was a train wreck through and through.

Though handicapped by a miniseries budget, the SciFi version is far closer to the original intent. Take my advice and watch the Star Wars Holiday Special before you ever take a step toward the Lynch version of Dune. It'll hurt a lot less.

Eternal Padawan
04-16-2003, 07:55 AM
What's the difference in the 2 miniseries DVDs? One's $20.58 and the others $13.29, but it looks like the cheaper one is a Special Edition....

Anyone know the inside scoop?

Mandalorian Candidat
04-16-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
The David Lynch version is an abomination that has very little to do with the story you'll read in the novel. Apart from the title, the character names, and the places, it was a train wreck through and through.

Though handicapped by a miniseries budget, the SciFi version is far closer to the original intent. Take my advice and watch the Star Wars Holiday Special before you ever take a step toward the Lynch version of Dune. It'll hurt a lot less.

OK, OK. Granted, Lynch's version is kind of like that dark little secret you want to keep hidden from the light of day, but it isn't all that bad. He did a decent job trying to compress that behemoth into a movie-sized plot while making it understandable for the general public and not just Dune fans. I consider myself to be of above average intelligence but it was hard keeping track of all his wacky terminology even with the book's glossary at hand.

I agree that the miniseries is closer to the original plot, but it's over four hours and still isn't totally comprehensive.

EP, I would get the 3-disc set for $13.29. It has an extra 30 min. that the $20 version doesn't have because it was edited down for American TV and has a load of extras including an audio commentary. I don't believe the 2-disc one has that.

I don't know why the prices are goofy like that. It would be akin to the 2-disc set of LotR being $40 and the 4-disc one $25. Just get the 3-disc set. It's cheaper, longer, and has more features.

Eternal Padawan
04-17-2003, 05:06 PM
I found it at Best Buy for cheap, so I snagged that and Spirited Away (see thread). I watched the first disc, since I'm that far in the book already and noticed minor cosmetic changes, like Princess Irulan showing up at dinner. Is that significant later on? I was a little dissapointed at the lack of Yueh in the movie. It makes his betrayal seem contrived for the purposes of moving the story forward in the film, rather than shaded and layered in the book. I also had trouble telling Gurney from Thifur from Yueh. All drab, middle aged, chubby Englishmen. I guess I thought of Gurney as younger in the book. Or maybe just more battle hardened. That flabby presentation in the film wasn't the warrior I had seen in my mind.

I was prepared for shoddy SFX, so that didn't bother me much, but I guess the whole production lacked...charisma. I can't think of the right word. There was a great performance here, and a great scene there, but overall, it lacked the passion of the novel. But it's only the first disc, and I haven't finished the book yet, for that matter...

Mandalorian Candidat
04-17-2003, 06:12 PM
Yeah EP. I had problems with the miniseries too, but on the whole I felt it was pretty decent. You're 100% right about Yueh. He's so insignificant in the miniseries it wouldn't be that big of a deal for someone who had never read the book or saw the Lynch version.

As far as the characters go just remember, Idaho is the younger guy (but since you're already done with the first disc you can forget about him), Gurney is the hatless dude with the scar over his left eye, and Thufir (who you can also forget because they quietly axed him in the miniseries in the first disc) has that fruity hat on.

Irulan's pretty much not in the book except at the very end. Her character is more prominent in the two immediate sequels to Dune. In the book she is pretty much only referred to in the chapter heading blurbs. If you watch one of the special feature behind-the-scene dealies (The Taste of Spice is it?) the director mentions why they wrote Irulan a larger part in this version. I personally thought the writers did a better than Hebert in making her a more intimate part of the story.

Just out of curiosity, how much did Best Buy charge for the 3-disc set?

Mandalorian Candidat
04-28-2003, 12:25 PM
I've been looking on the internet for information on the Children of Dune DVD set but really haven't found much information on the format. All I can find out is that it's a 2-disc set and contains the TV spot(s) and some picture gallery. I've seen no mention of a commentary track or if it includes footage not shown on American TV like that from the original Dune miniseries.

Anyone know more information on this set or if there will be a director's cut released eventually?

Mandalorian Candidat
05-27-2003, 06:22 PM
Got the DVD last week and finished watching the miniseries last night. I read the book between the original airing on SciFi and seeing it on DVD so I found the video version to be more interesting the second time around since I was able to pick up more on what was going on.

I haven't seen the two special features so I can't comment on those but I am disappointed that only two were included. I'm hoping that a director's cut will be issued in a few years like was done with Dune.

Right now I'm reading God Emperor of Dune and it's turning out to be more interesting than Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. I hope New Amsterdam decides to make this one into a miniseries too.