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Galactic Hitchiker
03-24-2003, 09:07 PM
What are the odds Hasbro will give us super-articulated Star Wars figures made in the same manner as G.I.Joe figures?

The company obviously possesses the technology to do so, so why have we not seen this type of figure yet?

Of course, if Hasbro were to make super-posable figures, I don't suppose we'd need 48 versions of each of the primary characters, would we?

Hasbro might actually have to get creative and offer the consumer something original.

Has anyone heard an opinion from Hasbro on this matter, either for or against?

Beast
03-24-2003, 09:16 PM
Dear god no, I hate the articulation on G.I. Joe. All that articulation really hurts how the figures look. I've never liked how G.I. Joe figures look, and prefer the more realistic sorts of articulation that can be better hidden. Ball joints and cut joints, like Hasbro uses for the Star Wars line looks a lot better.

As for the multiple releases of main charecters, you're going to get that no matter what. The main charecters typically sell better then the obscure ones. And Hasbro always has new collector's entering the market, especially during movie years. So keeping the core charecters fresh and on the shelf will happen no matter what is actually done with the figures.

Hasbro has said they will offer as much articulation as they can, but it will vary from figure to figure. They don't want it to hurt the sculpts, or two hurt poseability over time. After all, delicate articulation points in 3 3/4" figures, can get easily loose or broken over time. Look at G.I. Joe figures that can bearly stand up anymore from weak joints.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

LTBasker
03-24-2003, 09:34 PM
GI Joe articulation methods are out dated. They can do knee and elbow joints and are able to hide them (look at TA Anakin's knee), we only need them to bend realisticly. They could add swivel joints to have more directions. We really don't need the torso rubber band joint sort of thing because with each ball jointed necks or just basic waist articulation we could get them to look down if needed.

Star Wars figures are a bit bigger and bulkier than GI Joes, plus no real detail was going into the Joe figures, so the articulation points could actually be hidden better than they were on the Joe figures if the attention was paid to them.

Frankly I never expect them to make like 16+ articulation points as standard articulation, but rather I'd rather see them use common sense on stuff. If they're going to joint a figure, make the joints more logical. Take Wedding Anakin for example, perfect figure, but instead of the pivoting ankle joints they could have done pivoting knees, because the pivoting ankle joints are pointless.

Amy
03-24-2003, 10:23 PM
I would go on a rampage if Habro ever done that. Yes, I'm serious when it comes to my toys.:mad:

Deoxyribonucleic
03-24-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Dear god no, I hate the articulation on G.I. Joe. All that articulation really hurts how the figures look. I've never liked how G.I. Joe figures look, and prefer the more realistic sorts of articulation that can be better hidden. Ball joints and cut joints, like Hasbro uses for the Star Wars line looks a lot better.


I have to agree! As much as I love my old GI Joes, their waistes and legs look completely silly to me. :crazed: I do enjoy articulation like Hasbro has currently been doing but if I had to pick, I'd pick realism over articulation anyday!

Obi-Dan Kenobi
03-24-2003, 11:32 PM
I'd have to go with accuracy over articulation. Although some decent arm and waist articulation on jedi and army builders is certainly welcome. But GI Joe-like articulation is not necessary.

amidalak
03-25-2003, 01:00 AM
hasbro has done pretty well with the type and look of their articulation for the star wars line, but not the quantity. i want all my jedi with ball-jointed shoulders and bendable knees. the only articulation i don't like is the neck articulation they tried with the ascension amidala, that did take away from the look of the fig, big time.

Prince Xizor
03-25-2003, 01:12 AM
I want my articulation! I am a huge fan of being able to pose your action figures the way you want. But I don't want the G.I. Joe articulation, its way too flimsy. I think now adays there is no excuse for not having both shoulders ball-jointed and a joint in each knee. I would like a joint in each elbow, but I will settle for a cut, if there is a ball joint in the shoulder. And the waist should be cut and hips should be jointed. I would choose a Aalya Secura type-figure over a Luminara statue anyday.

Jerjerrod
03-25-2003, 01:19 AM
No no no no no. Star Wars is Star Wars. G.I.Joe is G.I.Joe. There two totally different lines. It would totally suck if Hasbro made Star Wars look like Joes. I like them how they are, and wouldn't want to see the sculpts ruined by super-articulation. While having some articulation which doesn't affect the sculpt is good, having too much is totally uncool.

Tonysmo
03-25-2003, 02:17 AM
I posed that question to the hasbro folks at CII. They told me while GIJOE is a HASBRO line, the Star Wars line while made by Hasbro, is from the direction of the man himself, Mr. Lucas. They said they would'nt mind putting more articulation on the figs, but that it was up to Lucas to do so, and it would thus cost a bit more as well.. I see both points from you guys on why and why not, and I can agree with both sides as well.. I'd just like to have them fit nicely in ships.. without looking like they have a charley horse in both legs... I think SOME articulation would be good...

Amy
03-25-2003, 08:58 PM
Holy cow, I had no idea Lucas was THAT involved with the toyline. Thats kinda cool.:)

TheDarthVader
03-25-2003, 09:34 PM
I don't want that much articulation either but hasbro needs to start making the figures with better POSES. It is the pose that really affects how good a figure can be not articulation!! :)

JediTricks
03-26-2003, 01:18 AM
GI Joe doesn't go far enough with articulation! There should be articulated wrists and ankles, knees and elbows, ball-jointed shoulders and hips, and ball-jointed necks for looking up and down. These joints have ALL been successfully incorporated into various Star Wars figures, so why should we be afraid of them??? We know they don't sacrifice the look of the figure because some of our figures already have 'em. The current level of SW articulation is nearly 30 years old, the only common improvement is the ridiculously simple swivel waist! We can't bury our heads in the sand over this issue, otherwise we might as well continue to accept musclebound Lukes and neck-free Stormtroopers.

Tonysmo
03-26-2003, 01:36 AM
Gi joe doesnt go far enough with articulation? JT - pick up the newest version of Snake Eyes... I didnt count them - but there seems to be more than I ever thought possible.. even the ankles.. crazy I tell ya!!

LTBasker
03-26-2003, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by Tonysmo
I posed that question to the hasbro folks at CII. They told me while GIJOE is a HASBRO line, the Star Wars line while made by Hasbro, is from the direction of the man himself, Mr. Lucas. They said they would'nt mind putting more articulation on the figs, but that it was up to Lucas to do so, and it would thus cost a bit more as well..

I dunno, last we heard on this issue from a qupte by a Hasbroite at a convention was that they couldn't be a whole lot of articulation (they were exaggerting heavily what the number was) on the figures. There was no mention of Lucas being part of that figure design. Frankly I don't buy it, theres no reason for him to be so strict in that area.

I think they could easily put these points of articulation on the figure and not only hide them very well, but also make them strong enough to not just fall loose.

Ball-Joint head, ball joint shoulders, ball joint elbows, swivel wrists, turning waist, ball joint legs, ball joint knees, and ball joint ankles. That's 25 articulation points! And so far they have done all those except for the ball-jointed legs and they do have figures that have them hidden perfectly! I'm not saying I want these 25 joints to become the actual norm because on alot of figures it is definitely an overkill. However they shouldn't just toss in random joints that don't make much sense to include (waist articulation on Zam when her stomach thing plugs in from her waist part...?) and could have gone to other points.

amidalak
03-26-2003, 09:18 AM
more articulation, less crappy action poses!

JediTricks
03-26-2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Tonysmo
Gi joe doesnt go far enough with articulation? JT - pick up the newest version of Snake Eyes... I didnt count them - but there seems to be more than I ever thought possible.. even the ankles.. crazy I tell ya!! Snake Eyes and the new Cobra Commander are anomalies though, the only new Joes with added articulation IIRC. I think, like SW, they're putting a handful of alternate articulation points into 1 or 2 Spy Troops figures, but only to accomodate the specific needs of the pose that figure would need.

Jargo
03-26-2003, 09:07 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with the point about wasted articulation on figures. Zam is the perfect example. Also take a figure like EU jedi training obi-Wan, his left arm has elbow articulation but there's so little posable movement in that arm it was poihtless. He has wrist articulation that is great and works but there's not a lot of use for it because the figure has legs all skewiff and therefore is nothing short of a statue. Giving his legs articulation so he could achieve more poses would have been beneficial but instead they wasted that articulation on his useless arm. I believe they need to get someone i that company that actually still plays with this stuff not people who display only which appears to be the case right now. If those guys played with their toys they'd stop wasting chances and get things sorted so a figure has logical articulation and accessories and can be posed in a number of ways. The sculpts might look good but as toys they suck. Permanent wide leg stances on nearly every figure thus created. Humans don't stand that way so why create non human poses for these figures. They don't have to be straight up and down like the vintage but Hasbro are over emphasising these ridiculous poses time and time again. Take Anakin secret ceremony, we've had numerous action anakin figures that needed articulation in the ankles and hasbro go and shove it on the one anakin that doesn't need it. Then they go and give him a weird pose leaning forward and sculpt his cape like there's a gale force wind. Needless over production on a simple figure that only needed basic articulation and basic sculpting. They made a Jango figure with tilting head that couldn't tilt because the helmet impeded movement and the head tilted the wrong direction anyway. Stupid gaffes like this are what makes the whole biz of making the toys seem like an afterthought or a big joke.

GI JOE articulation is horrible though. Those figures look weak. The articulation shows really badly. I haven't even been tempted to buy a single one. i don't want the same happening to star wars figures i just want them to put more thought into which figures get what articulation and to make elbows and knees standard points. Oh yeah, more wasted articulation figure/s, LT. Faytonni and Achk Med-Becq have knees and they have nothing to sit in or on. Why? There are countless troopers who could have used that articulation, Jedi who could have used it. Cantina creatures who need it. But Hasbro gives two backgrounfd characters who never sit knees. They gave padme pilot knees too and she don't need them at all. Just wasted and misplaced is all this is. eeny meeny miny mo randomness.

Galactic Hitchiker
03-26-2003, 11:49 PM
There seem to be a lot of you who aren't interested in articulated figures as a rule.

Tell me this though: if Hasbro were to give you the opportunity to buy a super-articulated figure as a deluxe edition, would you buy it, or do you prefer the statues-and-catapults deluxes they've issued so far?

LTBasker
03-27-2003, 12:00 AM
I'd definitely take it, if I want statues I'll buy the Applause ones or save up for the Attakus stuff.

If I want catapault, I'll put a piece of wood on a barrel then put a cat on one end. ;)

Jerjerrod
03-27-2003, 12:49 AM
It has always been a Star Wars tradition to produce "statuesque" figures with basic arm/leg/waist/head articulation. Why would any of you want to change that by wanting G.I.Joe-like figures that, while can move in all sorts of ways, lack realism like no tomorrow? If you're into those kind of figures, you've been collecting the wrong toy-line. It's been 8 long years, that Kenner/Hasbro has made Star Wars this way, why complain now, especially when the sculpts are better than ever before? All the figures since the POTF Freeze Frame era were ALL beautifully sculpted, and now rivals even the detail-oriented McFarlane toys. Take a look at any figure now, especially ones from POTJ. Right now, I'm staring at Sandtrooper, IG-88, Luke X-Wing pilot, Boba 300th, dlx Slave Leia, and think to myself: What if Hasbro took these away, and gave us sh** like G.I.Joe figs? My immediate answer was that I'll be so bloody ********, that I'll stop buying SW action figures altogether, and even stop with anything to do with Star Wars.

Those of you who actually wants G.I.Joe-like articulation in Star Wars are out of your mind. Moreover, you're proving to everyone here that: 1) You don't appreciated what Kenner/Hasbro has done for Star Wars for the last 25 years, 2) totally hate highly-realistic recreations of the characters of SW, 3) Obviously don't know anything about the purpose, history, and tradition of collecting Star Wars.

Despite the gimmick-problem of last year, Hasbro is still following the template of producing realistic, statuesque figures that, recreate the characters "as-seen" in a particular scene in the saga. If they were ever going to change that, and started putting Joe-like garbage articulation and appearance in to SW figures, I'll be the first to GLADLY leave the hobby. I'm sure the majority of you agree. So please do me a favor and stop this thread before Randy from Hasbro reads this and thinks of a new bright idea.

Btw, here is a picture of one of my favorite figures. Do you really want this style to change? Ask yourself.

amidalak
03-27-2003, 08:10 AM
hey jerjerrod, take your holier than thou crap and stuff it, those of us who want articulation don't need you telling us we are out of our minds. most of us think the same thing about you jokers who want to have all your action figures look like little statues so they look nice and pretty in their plastic jails on your computer desk. those of us who collected the vintage toys remember these action figures as just that, toys that were meant to be played with and used in action. that's why we want articulation, so the toys can actually be played with in somewhat, if not better ways, than our old toys. so randy, if your reading, some of us want articulation, not dumb, spread leg poses, making play impossible.

Jerjerrod
03-27-2003, 11:25 AM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Is that hostility I sense? I don't care what you think amidalak, I just know Kenner/ Hasbro has been doing it right since the vintage era. I hate the wide-legged poses too, neutral is what I want for all figures. But putting in more articulation means ruining the sculpt, which obviously you don't care about. Stick your rude comments to another forum.

Btw, I like the type of articulation they have now, with bendable knees, ball-joint shoulders, turnable-biceps, etc. I just don't understand why some of you would want SW to look like Joes.

Deoxyribonucleic
03-27-2003, 11:52 AM
NICE calculator Jerjerrod :D :p

amidalak
03-27-2003, 12:06 PM
jerjerrod, i agree that neutral pose is the way to go, but adding the good articulation hasbro has shown so far doesn't take away from the sculpt and makes the toys enjoyable for everyone. if you don't want hostility, don't post messages that are insulting to groups that don't see things your way. you're the one who started, jerjerrod, i'm no more out of my mind than you are, and i'll post where ever i feel like it.

Jargo
03-27-2003, 12:11 PM
OOH a fight, where's john lennon or paul mcCartney with their peace songs when you need 'em?

Compromise is the answer. better solutions to sculpting articulation like hiding the joints, less extreme poses in the limb to begin with but with more standard points of articulation per figure. 12 points is more than enough on a figure that small.

My reccomendation for the twelve points would be:
Omni directional ball joint neck.
Ball joint shoulder.
Elbow ball joint.
Wrist rotation.
Waist rotation. (horizontal)
Hip (forward/back movement)
Ball joint knees.
Ankle. (forward/back movement)

The movements fdon't need to be amazing or expansive but enough to accomodate some reposing. to give a person the choice of how the figure should stand - or sit. sitting is one of the main bugbears with SW for me. I want my figures to sit but hardly any of them do. But having said that i don't want a million and one points of articulation that fall apart like Darth maul Sith training's arms do. There just isn't any call for so much arm articulation in tiny four inch figures. shoulder and elbow is all that's needed and all that can be fitted into the arm while still retaining some aesthetic to the sculpt. Hasbro has proven they can do the joints well many times in difeerent figures with different limbs. To not get the same quality of sculpt on all figures just shows how rushed these toys are or how lacsadasical the company is to allow crap stuff out.

amidalak
03-27-2003, 12:16 PM
e.j., you hit the nail on the head.

Jerjerrod
03-27-2003, 02:28 PM
I also think having too much articulation is overkill. That's exactly my point, I don't want my figures to be controlled by a giant rubber band inside. I also don't like aticulated-points that are not only exposed, but form part of the figure's sculpt, like Joe's waist/hips piece. Of course I want to see them being able to sit or stand neutrally.

I'm not trying to start any fights. I think we are all entitled to our own opinions. I just feel strongly about what Kenner/Hasbro has done for SW, it's what attracted me into the hobby in the first place. I didn't know that so many of you were so unsatisfied.

JediTricks
03-27-2003, 07:11 PM
I think you guys are focusing on the wrong issue with this "GI Joe articulation" - this is about amount, not an identical copy. Clearly Hasbro could hide the Joe articulation if they wanted but they don't. With SW, they could and SHOULD.

Jerjerrod, I've been complaining about the lack of articulation with this line since '95, but at least with those figures you had a generic, neutral stance that could be used for basic needs. Today there are far too many preposed-freak figures that have no or useless articulation so even the basic 6-points are unusable. As the sculpts appear to get better, the figures themselves seem to suffer as toys; the evolution these figures are been taking should be towards better toys, not just better statues.

Look at McFarlane, their sculpting got insanely good, but with that they started removing quality articulation and sales went way down and they got a bad reputation for it. Now they have started putting good articulation into great sculpts and are beginning to make a comeback. Hasbro could add more points of articulation without compromising the look of the figure, but routinely chooses not to - look at the CTC Stormtrooper or POTJ Han Bespin (though both could use ankles and wrists), there's plenty of other figs like this where a good extra articulation point was used, they could do it again and again but instead give us these freeze-frame statue figures, certainly THOSE aren't what SW figures were about when the line started.

And BTW, that POTJ Luke Pilot ain't that great, it could DEFINITELY use ball-jointed shoulders, swivel wrists, and cut-elbows or biceps to hold the control stick... of course, the fig should have come with an X-wing control stick accessory too.

Deoxyribonucleic
03-27-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks

Today there are far too many preposed-freak figures that have no or useless articulation so even the basic 6-points are unusable. As the sculpts appear to get better, the figures themselves seem to suffer as toys; the evolution these figures are been taking should be towards better toys, not just better statues.


IE: Luminara Unduli and Barriss Offee!!

Sad, sad, sad as I really dig those characters!

You can't really do much with them diorama wise, just "standing there" in the end scene. They'd look really silly if you put them on the gunship standing there like that, in "attack position."

And if you twist Luminara's arm upward, it looks like either gravity did a switcheroony or her sleeve is full of helium and ready to take off.

plasticfetish
03-27-2003, 08:38 PM
If they'd just start making the bendies again ...

Deoxyribonucleic
03-27-2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by plasticfetish
If they'd just start making the bendies again ...

Blasphemy!!!

:D :) :p :) :D

LusiferSam
03-27-2003, 10:30 PM
I love the articulation of GI Joes. Joes just wouldn't be joes without that articulation. Its like the 12 incher without the k grip. I don't currently collect joes (not enough room or money), so I can't so anything about the new joes.
AS for articulation for Star Wars, I don't think Hasbro sure use the old style of joints. The technological for making well articulated figures has had to have advanced. Some of the POTJ figures have some great points, now if they could be combined in a great neutral position ... Well one can dream.