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View Full Version : Supporting Our Troops: Some of our guys have been captured in Iraq



Tycho
03-25-2003, 01:00 AM
I hope this thread doesn't get closed. The topic's not about whether we should be over there. The fact is we are, and now we better win.

Unfortunately, American soldiers (support engineers mostly) who were ambushed near the Euphrates River, have been taken prisoner. Amongst them, a 30-year old woman, and 4 men, ranging in their 20's to very early 30's.

A tape of Iraqi interrogators interviewing our guys as their POWs leaked out, and one guy was hurt so bad, they had to help him up to make him give his statement. They also showed images of at least 4 American bodies, together.

This has really bothered me. I know war is never bloodless, and the Iraqi Republican Guard is not going down without a good fight. But I feel guilty for not being over there, myself. Because I had an open-chest surgery when I was 11 years old, I have been told I can never serve. I've been disqualified by the Marine Corps, the Navy, and the AirForce. (and my father was a decorated Navy destroyer Commander during the Cuban Missle Crisis, and during the middle years of Vietnam). Oh, and I'm in great shape, and with a little work, I could pass their physical training without cause for alarm.

But meanwhile, other Americans are sacraficing themselves for their service to our country, while living with the horrors of war:

A British-ally strafing jet fighter was hit by our anti-missle patriot missle, causing at least one British family grief, and one of our missle teams' guys to lose sleep over this for the rest of their lives.

A confused Muslem soldier on our side (a US Army Sgt.) tossed a grenade into the sleeping tent of our own soldiers in Kuwait, because of his own inability to do his duty, and settle his inner turmoils with his own religious convictions (which do not condone what he did). At least one US soldier was killed by one of our own, and many more were wounded.

Our boys are facing heavier, and heavier fire as they approach Bagdad. They are now about 100 miles (less than the distance from San Diego to LA). Sadam Hussein is still alive and barking orders and defiant to the last, wanting to cause us more grief.

We may or may not have discovered one of his chemical weapons labs.

They definitely have missle capability, but their conventional forces are proving to be tough.

Our guys are from like age 17 to 35 for the most part - the age of most of us who are priviledged enough to be sitting posting and reading stuff here. They are scared. Many of them, including the guy who turned traitor, didn't sign up thinking they'd actually be going to war. You could think about how you'd feel about all your life's plans being put on hold, to see how long you last being in uncomfortable situations, that leave you paranoid, all for only one reason: to get to Baghdad.

And of course, if Saddam is gambling that he can look like "the good guy" by not unleashing any chemical weapons he might have, he'll wait until he's sure that he's going to lose the war (he's obviously too delusional to face reality now) and then as a last resort, he'll release the chemical stuff (if he's really got any) when our guys are in too close, and he has nothing to lose.

I really hope we can fight our way in and rescue our POWs or the Navy Seals or Army Rangers can do something at nighttime or whatever (ahead of our main invasion force) and get our guys they have prisoner out of there.

I don't think Saddam is going to respect the Geneva Accords that govern the rules of war. I doubt Iraq even signed those, or they wouldn't be accused of harboring chemical weapons anyway.

Throughout history, there have been rules of war, but it was the Western World that drafted them and embraced them, from the early English-French-American conflicts. Germany didn't obey them until after Hitler was off the scene. Japan ignored them by attacking hospitals, even military hospitals, at Pearl Harbor.

I don't think any fundamentalist, religious warriors would obey them either. The Bible does not have rules of war - it says specifically not to make war! "Thou shall not kill." But anyway, the way any religious document reads is always dependant upon who is interpreting it. I'm sure any Iraqi Bible says exactly whatever Saddam Hussein wants it to say.

I just had to get this off my chest, because I'm really concerned for our troops.

EricRG
03-25-2003, 02:49 AM
STOP THE WAR.:rolleyes:

Tycho
03-25-2003, 03:04 AM
Why?

I was opposed to it before it began. I still don't think the reasons for it are justified.

But now we are committed, and we've sacraficed our own blood for victory, now we have to win it.

1) We need to free our guys that have been captured.

2) We've already violated the United Nations oversight, and we are at the least, already international outlaws, if the ends are to be used to justify the means, then by all means lets take over the Middle East and force peace upon the Palestinian situation, and allow for Jews and Muslems, as well as our own Jewish, Christian, and Islamic citizens to live in security that's currently not provided by their governments, and still fallible in our own case.

We are clearly the agressors now, and this war might be illegal, depending upon what they find. So we cannot cry to the United Nations if some country unfairly attacks us. But some are willing to gamble that we won't have to.

But we are acting in the larger world, just like Saddam does in his own country. We are saying "my way or the highway."

Since we've already started it, we might as well finish it. But a US-led peacekeeping force in a neutral zone between New Palestine and Israel will have to maintain a presence there for at least 200 years until all the blood feuds could be forgotten once there are no first or second or third account witnesses to attrocities left.

I hope we have not bitten off more than we can chew. We can't do this again in Africa, North Korea, and we're already invovled deep in Columbia. The world might have not been a safe place with Saddam before Operation Freedom, but it will surely be an even more dangerous place afterwords.

Like I said, this might pave the way to World Peace in about 200 years, but it's going to be World Paranoia until then. Our lives are forever changed. Do you honestly believe we can ever relax airport or immigration security ever again?

But this thread is already teetering on the 'getting closed' stage because we are getting into politics by talking about the right-or-wrongness of the war.

This thread is intended for those who want to support our troops.

Jedi Clint
03-25-2003, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
2) We've already violated the United Nations oversight, and we are at the least, already international outlaws, if the ends are to be used to justify the means, then by all means lets take over the Middle East and force peace upon the Palestinian situation, and allow for Jews and Muslems, as well as our own Jewish, Christian, and Islamic citizens to live in security that's currently not provided by their governments, and still fallible in our own case.

We are hardly "international outlaws" :rolleyes:

Tycho
03-25-2003, 03:12 AM
What I meant by "international outlaws" was a simplistic way of saying:

there was a vote by the UN Security Council, and by 3-2, the United States lost the vote.

while the UN has no final legal authority over the US, I hope that one day, it kind of should.

I want there to be one world government, basically in tune with the Constitution of the United States, with respect to the Bill of Rights, democracy of some kind in each country, checks and balances, and general population empowerment (and education).

Disrespecting the UN weakens it, and could take us away from this day. Whereas each step closer to the time when there could be one world government, brings us that much further from World War III, armegeddon, or the continued suffering of the human race.

One day perhaps we will make contact with other planets, other races of beings. As in Star Wars, we will need a united planet in order for their to be any Galactic Republic. We certainly wouldn't want the Rodians to make some kind of exclusive arrangement with the Iraqis, just like the majority of the Republic is alarmed by more planets making deals with the Separatists.

There is strength and peace in unity.

Emperor Howdy
03-25-2003, 03:12 AM
Shut 'er down, mods. SirSteve has requested no political threads for now.

EricRG
03-25-2003, 03:20 AM
You crack me up, Howdy. One minute you're running around, calling anyone who opposes you every insult under the sun, the next, you're running around acting like a pseudo-moderator. Quite funny, IMO.

Jedi Clint
03-25-2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
there was a vote by the UN Security Council, and by 3-2, the United States lost the vote.


Which vote?

Tycho
03-25-2003, 03:45 AM
I must admit, I don't know. Maybe they didn't vote. But France, Russia, and China were not going to support an armed invasion into Iraq at this point, without more evidence.

Let's not get this thread closed by discussing the evidence, justification, etc.

The point should be that even if there wasn't a vote, the positions of these governments makes the point of a vote moot anyway.

They have their own reasons for this: France, Russia, and China have their own more-favored arrangements with Saddam for oil or weapons sales, depending upon which country you're talking about amongst these. Or so I've seen that point being made, and thought it deserves consideration.

Really, I just want this thread to be where you can log-on, and post how you feel towards our troops:

- Win, and win at the least expense to your fellow servicemen as possible.

- Succeed in what you are doing and make a good end come out of all of this, so regardless of how those for or against the war feels, the end will bring us all satisfaction that something good has happened.

- Act justly, and do only what you must do to fulfill your duty, so that you will never have to question your personal morality, and know that all of us will be proud of you and give you a hero's welcome home.

- Godspeed to victory. May your quick and professional action in war bring you peace as efficiently and timely as possible.

I also support SirSteve and his policy decision about political and religious threads here. I understand that he does not want a huge controversy or flame war going on in our forums.

To respect that, and express myself, I mean to only report the news of our soldiers' tough time over there in the Gulf, and to tell them, and everyone else the 4 things I just layed out above, as my way of supporting our fighting men and women, without getting into a debate about whether or not what our President is doing is justified.

2-1B
03-25-2003, 04:32 AM
So . . . the ban has been lifted? :D

In that case:

Grover Cleveland still sucks ;)

Lord Malakite
03-25-2003, 09:15 AM
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

ENOUGH OF THIS NOW!!! NO MORE POLITICAL DISCUSSION!!

Steve made himself very clear on this. If you want to discuss this stuff, do it by PM, not here. You guys should know better, you're Mods. :mad:

The Overlord Returns
03-25-2003, 09:36 AM
Hey...I'm not a mod ;)

Honestly though...I've been devouring all the "round the clock" news on this war.....I actually have no desire to argue about it...

Surprising, I know.

vulcantouch
03-25-2003, 11:58 AM
. . .namely, political threds Will be allowed but only so long as their titles are saddled with the patriotically-correct (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=232992#post232992) phrase "support our troops" :rolleyes: otherwise, as harry shearer sang, "if you want free speech go to rooosha" :p

2-1B
03-25-2003, 12:56 PM
I think it's funny that Tycho started with a post saying he hopes it doesn't get closed, then one little anti-war comment is made, and Tycho himself goes all political. :D

To borrow from Michael Moore, "Shame on you Mr. Tycho, shame on you."
:crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed:

The Overlord Returns
03-25-2003, 01:01 PM
I still don't see why we need this ban. It's all very simple. If you don't like the topic of a particular thread..... DO NOT READ IT.

:mad:

Emperor Howdy
03-25-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by EricRG
You crack me up, Howdy. One minute you're running around, calling anyone who opposes you every insult under the sun, the next, you're running around acting like a pseudo-moderator. Quite funny, IMO.

:rolleyes:

Shut'er down, mods. SirSteve has specific rules against personal attacks on the forums.

The Overlord Returns
03-25-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
So . . . the ban has been lifted? :D

In that case:

Grover Cleveland still sucks ;)

lol...indeed he does.....

On that note, I really can't stand Latveria......as a country they really tick me off! And their leader....I've got some big issues with that iron clad dictator....

QLD
03-25-2003, 07:00 PM
you know, we really ought to have another general discussion mod, so these threads can be shutdown quicker.

El Chuxter
03-25-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
So . . . the ban has been lifted? :D

In that case:

Grover Cleveland still sucks ;)

Cute. :)

And in the words of the great philosopher Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

Now taking bets on how much longer this thread stays open. D:Pirate:?

Kidhuman
03-25-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by El Chuxter
Now taking bets on how much longer this thread stays open. D:Pirate:?

I'll take 9:30 tonight

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-25-2003, 08:09 PM
Ah, c'mon Tycho, you know the rules, there is a ban on political threads. Don't think the rules don't apply to you cause you're a mod. I usually think highly of your mod skills and your comments, but this is totally inappropriate. I give it till 9:45 till it's closed!! :D

EricRG
03-25-2003, 08:49 PM
Howdy, um, that's not a personal attack. It's just my pointing out the irony in your actions.

JediTricks
03-25-2003, 11:04 PM
Hmm, I want in on the pool, can I put my money on 8:05pm PST? ;)

BTW, if you guys see a thread that you feel is violating the rule, don't go posting some comment about it in that thread; simply click the "report post" link and fill out the form. When you post this stuff, you're just adding to the confusion the mods have to sift through and slowing down the moderating process.