PDA

View Full Version : my car died yesterday.......



derek
04-10-2003, 08:27 PM
well, after 8 great years and 278,000 miles, 2 wrecks, 6 blowouts, an $800 break job and a new $1,200 A/C, my 'ol saturn decided to head off to the car retirement home yesterday.

since it won't pass our goofy emissions tests, eats oil like candy, and blew out the clutch yesterday,(resulting in a 3 hour lull between houston and dallas while i waited for someone to come get me....all the while having to fight off ravenous tow truck drivers) i've made the decision to retire her and move on......instead of spending $3000 plus to get her running again and able to pass the state inspections, which i've got 4 tickets for.

so now i have to buy a new car and start making those dreaded car payments! this is really gonna eat into my toy collecting hobbies!.......though i've got more than my money's worth, i hate to let her go............ :cry:

James Boba Fettfield
04-10-2003, 08:34 PM
May I suggest a 1968 Stingray. After you buy this, may I suggest you move to Columbus and become a friend of mine.

Kidhuman
04-10-2003, 10:22 PM
Sorry to hear the news Derek. Hope it works out better with a new car.

bobafrett
04-10-2003, 11:45 PM
I have been driving for 8 years, have driven 5 different cars, and I'm getting tired of making car payments. I can understand how you feel Derek, especially with the payments cutting into your collecting. But, if you get going, you might be able to get one of those 0% interest deals!

JediTricks
04-11-2003, 01:16 AM
Sorry to hear about the ride Derek. This was a pre-GM Saturn, yes?

My mom has had a lot of success with used cars (in between the POS that we had to buy to replace the car Rebecca Gayheart plowed into, but that's a different issue), the 1981 Toyota Celica Supra cost under $700, drove like a sports car, and was as tough as the Millennium Falcon - even survived an accident any other manual transmission car would have gotten the passengers killed in. Now we have a $900 '87 Volvo wagon, and it seems to be pretty good too. I dunno, I guess I'm just prejudice against paying tens of thousands of dollars for a disposable car.

derek
04-11-2003, 06:29 AM
This was a pre-GM Saturn, yes

it's a 1995 model. when i bought it, i had no idea saturn was connected with GM, not that there is anything wrong with GM, as far as i know. but a month after i got it(new), a friend was telling me that saturn is a part of GM. i don't know if they always were or what? from all the advertisements i recall seeing, saturn was advertising themselves as a "different" kind of car company, and i got the feeling they were an independent company.:confused:


I dunno, I guess I'm just prejudice against paying tens of thousands of dollars for a disposable car.

i couldn't agree more, but i use my car for work, so i have to have reliable transportation. this is only the second time this car broke down in over 8 years, so that's pretty good, meesa thinks...:)......i'm sure there are many good used cars out there, but i can't chance dropping $1000 plus for a used car and then having to make possible car repairs in the near future.


Now we have a $900 '87 Volvo wagon

is that car able to pass california's emissions tests? i know they are a lot more strict than those here in texas.

good shot jansen
04-11-2003, 09:51 AM
i recently traded in my 97 chrysler concorde which had been a very dependable car, but after the 1st 100,000 miles, it began to show signs of serious repair bills down the road.

my new car is a white pt cruiser turbo! i love it!

due to the flexibility of the seating to create tons of cargo area, i've found the car to be most practical. (it's 6 inches shorter than a neon! :eek: ) the new turbo charged engine introduced this year has certainly taken care of the under power knockins' that the cas had gotten in the past.

with the 2400 they gave me for the concorde, the bottom line on the car was 21,000 complete. to get a new car that's this much fun to drive, and which truely looks great for under 25,000 is a bargain.

i've had pretty good luck with all the chryslers i've owned over the years, so granted, that's pretty much the vehicle line i stick too when i need new wheels.

good luck with finding your next vehicle derek

JEDIpartner
04-11-2003, 11:04 AM
Good luck, man!

My car was GOING to die a couple weeks ago so I got a new one... it's already got a couple Republic insignias on it!! :D

JediTricks
04-11-2003, 11:43 PM
Saturn was an independent car company when they came out, but later they became part of GM, though that's mostly just management and not construction.


The Volvo needs a new catalytic converter to pass smog; we had it tested and it didn't pass, then we looked in the glove box a few days later and saw a receipt from the previous owner's mechanic that mentioned the need for that repair. D'oh! But other than that, it'll pass smog. Buying used cars mainly requires solid transportation for getting to them and a lot of patience and time since 9/10ths of the ads are liars or ignorant of their vehicles' poor conditions.

2-1B
04-12-2003, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by JediTricks
even survived an accident any other manual transmission car would have gotten the passengers killed in.

jeez . . . then I'm glad she had the Celica. :(
I hope there weren't any really serious injuries involved, either? :(



Well, when referring to "used cars" there are used and then there are USED. :D I'm in the market myself right now, thankfully we are lax here with emissions testing because my car is rather . . . potent . . . right now but it's still driveable so I'm gonna keep driving it ! :crazed: No, it's only while I shop around for a deal I'm happy with. I won't even consider buying from a private party, I don't want the headache.

However, from the dealers I've been browsing, I think there are some fantastic deals out there right now! I'm not looking for anything too flashy, just something with relatively low mileage and dependability (aren't we all? :rolleyes: :D).

So derek, are you saying you are going to buy brand new? I totally agree with you about the risk of a used car in the $1,000 range, but I'm confident that I'll find a great deal in the $8,000 range . . . if I went higher to 10k, I'd REALLY be set. :)

Are you looking to buy new for the security of a manufacturer's warranty? I can see why, because if you are already making payments then you wouldn't want to have to worry about repair costs as well . . . BUT at the same time, many of these warranties are 3 years / 36,000 miles and quite frankly, the car should be just fine during that time anyway ! :crazed: Of course, then they also want to seel you extended warranties of which I am suspicious. I know someone who bought a warranty thinking it was a good value, but she didn't notice the $100 deductable on all service. :(

scruffziller
04-12-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by derek
, and i got the feeling they were an independent company.:confused:



Dude I can't believe u fell for that!!!!:D

derek
04-12-2003, 02:41 PM
So derek, are you saying you are going to buy brand new?

yes sir!:D i just know too many people who have tried to sell or bought cars that have been wrecked and they didn't tell anyone.

and i don't want the hassle of any car repairs for the immediate future. if i'm gonna spend $8,000-10,000 on a good used car, i'll just go up a few thousand more and get a new saturn, that i know is in excellent condition.:)




Dude I can't believe u fell for that!!!!

well, i am a sucker.......;) seriously, saturn never, untll recently advertised they were a part of GM. in 1995, when i bought my last car from them, they went out of their way in all the commercials i saw to declair their independence from any of the big three.

Porcelina
04-13-2003, 12:00 AM
derek.... just wondering... how's the public transportation system in l.a.? (i believe that's where you live?) i don't mean to be a preachy environmentalist or whatever, but if it's good, you should use it! teehee ... although, i remember hearing that it's pretty crappy in l.a.... true? or not?

oh, and, i don't own a car, but i always thought that saturn was independent, too... so much for a "different" kind of car, eh? :)

good shot jansen
04-13-2003, 10:14 AM
derek's from texas, land of "mass transit?....we don' need no steenkin' mass trasit!" :(

florida (where i'm from) is the same. land of the pick up's and suv's.

i grew up in nyc, and never owned a car. my sister who still lives there, is in her late 40's and she never even learned how to drive one. :eek: no need to :)

i hate that my life has come to revolve (or is it evolve) around the automobile. (actually two of em, my wife needs one as well), without em, you ain't goin' nowhere.

la got around to installing a subway/light rail line in the 80's and 90's, which prolly helped the mass transit sitch there. when i was living in the city of angels in the summer of 1980, i didn't have a car, and the bus system was atrocious. i resorted to hitch hiking, every wehre i needed to be. not quite sure if i would advocate doing much of that anymore.

major cities never should have gotten rid of the trolly system that was in place from the turn of the century up to the end of the 40's. they really were a convenient way to get around without having to own your own (without having to own your own?, that sounds a tad wierd :sur: ) form of transit.

darthvyn
04-13-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Porcelina
oh, and, i don't own a car, but i always thought that saturn was independent, too... so much for a "different" kind of car, eh? :)

well, it might be a different kind of car, just not a different kind of car company which is the other half of that sentence they use... ;)

derek
04-13-2003, 05:25 PM
derek.... just wondering... how's the public transportation system in l.a.?

good shot janson is right, i'm in texas, home of the dixie chicks and ann richards!:D jeditricks is our LA rep.:) he can comment on their transit system.:)

the bigger cities in texas like dallas and houston have some mass transit. dallas has a light rail that runs in limited areas, and houston is building a train that runs from the astrodome to the new astros ball park.:confused: other than that, it's just metro buses, and living out in the 'burbs, they aren't much of a conveniance.:)

plus, i like the music loud and A/C cold. :happy:

another thing about texas: everything is really spread out. it would take forever to ride a bus around town.

JediTricks
04-13-2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Caesar
jeez . . . then I'm glad she had the Celica. :(
I hope there weren't any really serious injuries involved, either? :( My mom's fiance hit his head on the roof pretty hard, and they both had some minor neck injuries, but it could have been so much worse. Basically, they were sitting on the onramp to the freeway behind other cars (there's a light at this onramp) and this idiot behind them was looking at the police doing something up ahead instead of paying attention to the fact that there were stopped cars ahead of her. She never even stopped, hit the Supra so hard that it flew up and over into the right lane of the freeway which had moving traffic going at around 65 - from a dead stop with the clutch let out, my mom dropped the clutch when they landed and got out of the way of the flow of traffic without having the car stall out thus saving them from getting creamed. Dumb moron who hit them got out of her car and the first thing she said was "what were the police doing?"



Originally posted by good shot jansen
la got around to installing a subway/light rail line in the 80's and 90's, which prolly helped the mass transit sitch there. LA is one of the largest cities on the planet, geographically - it's 40 miles across just in the city and is interrupted by smaller cities, the county which is basically just an extension of the city is way larger. LA's mass transit system is a disaster: too many lines and few with a reasonable, logical route for the bus; the rail system is almost totally useless and costs the federal government $21 per rider per use to suppliment (whereas the bus costs the fed around $1 per rider per use); then there are other cities' bus systems which often require system transfers and scheduling conflitcs. The LA bus system is overcrowded and badly destroying our streets, the rail system is underused and a drain on tax dollars thanks to it going to very few areas people really need, and building it destroyed much of Hollywood's business thus increasing the crime problem. The building of the subway also destroyed part of the ground in a few areas and a public park, not to mention that the water table was threatened and most of the ground under LA has methane pockets which means explosions are a serious threat in some areas.

Bel-Cam Jos
06-29-2013, 05:08 PM
well, after 8 great years and 278,000 miles, 2 wrecks, 6 blowouts, an $800 break job and a new $1,200 A/C, my 'ol saturn decided to head off to the car retirement home yesterday.Well, my situation wasn't quite as dire, but there were some similarities:
8 years (and 1 1/2 months); only 44,000 miles; 0 wrecks; 0 blowouts; a $170 battery replacement; $52 to determine the conditions I reported "couldn't be replicated;" my ol' Saturn ION was led to the car retirement home today.

Being that Saturn isn't a current company anymore, :( and that I couldn't keep my car outdoors anymore without weird things happening with the alarm, locks, and passenger doors (alternating between the front and rear ones) and cabin lights, plus odd key/ignition and battery issues, I decided that the cost of fixing it might not be better than buying a car from an actual existing company. With some good deals and offers, and firm haggling (plus an appointment to meet, making them work a bit quicker), I now own a 2013 Toyota Camry, in "Clearwater Blue" color. I like it. :pleased: But I have a car payment again for the first time in about 4 years; that's not great but it's within my budget. I'll have to determine her name after I've driven the car for some time.

Snowtrooper
06-29-2013, 06:49 PM
Toyota's are good cars. We have an 03 Corrolla that we've owned for about 6 years now and it still runs great. Its given us very little trouble plus the mileage is really good. My brother has a 07? Camry that he likes pretty well too.

TeeEye7
06-29-2013, 09:38 PM
Toyota's are good cars.

Agreed! I've owned one since...oh, before you were born. I currently drive a 2002 Highlander (77,000) miles, which includes three trips to the country's midsection and back with another trip planned beginning next week end. Nary a hiccup! My wife drives a 2010 Prius. That's our fifth Toyota we've owned: '79 Corolla, '84 Camry (replaced by the Highlander in 2002), '00 Sienna (which was totaled thanks to an uninsured driver) '02 Highlander, '10 Prius AND I forgot to mention the '07 Camry we purchased for our son who still drives it. We've found them to be extremely reliable; just like the local dealership.

I hope you are as pleased as I have been, JT!

sith_killer_99
07-01-2013, 07:45 PM
Being that Saturn isn't a current company anymore, :( and that I couldn't keep my car outdoors anymore without weird things happening with the alarm, locks, and passenger doors (alternating between the front and rear ones) and cabin lights, plus odd key/ignition and battery issues, I decided that the cost of fixing it might not be better than buying a car from an actual existing company.

It's so hard to believe Saturn isn't a company anymore.:Pirate:

JediTricks
07-02-2013, 01:53 PM
Well, my situation wasn't quite as dire, but there were some similarities:
8 years (and 1 1/2 months); only 44,000 miles; 0 wrecks; 0 blowouts; a $170 battery replacement; $52 to determine the conditions I reported "couldn't be replicated;" my ol' Saturn ION was led to the car retirement home today.

Being that Saturn isn't a current company anymore, :( and that I couldn't keep my car outdoors anymore without weird things happening with the alarm, locks, and passenger doors (alternating between the front and rear ones) and cabin lights, plus odd key/ignition and battery issues, I decided that the cost of fixing it might not be better than buying a car from an actual existing company. With some good deals and offers, and firm haggling (plus an appointment to meet, making them work a bit quicker), I now own a 2013 Toyota Camry, in "Clearwater Blue" color. I like it. :pleased: But I have a car payment again for the first time in about 4 years; that's not great but it's within my budget. I'll have to determine her name after I've driven the car for some time.Sorry to hear that, that's REALLY low mileage for a car to eat it, in LA even with all those problems (sounds like a short in the ECM and/or ground wiring in the electrical system) it'd still have gotten you over a grand. Our last GM car, another dead-brand car being the Oldsmobile 88 (model number, not year), had ECM problems when it got hot out too, we eventually replaced the ECM twice and it cleared up - it was super dangerous actually, when the ECM got hot while running it'd go into limp mode and then worse problems while at speed. We ended up using the state retirement program last December for its smog-blasting powers to net us $1k in exchange for it, apparently this year the BAR is having too many people retire smog-blasters and the program is on hold until they catch up.

Sounds like you got a decent car at least, sorry to hear about the payments. If you got the V6 Camry, watch out, that car is thirsty, my grandma had a V6 Camry and while it performed well, revs over 2000 sucked down the dino-juice like it was going out of style.



Agreed! I've owned one since...oh, before you were born. I currently drive a 2002 Highlander (77,000) miles, which includes three trips to the country's midsection and back with another trip planned beginning next week end. Nary a hiccup! My wife drives a 2010 Prius. That's our fifth Toyota we've owned: '79 Corolla, '84 Camry (replaced by the Highlander in 2002), '00 Sienna (which was totaled thanks to an uninsured driver) '02 Highlander, '10 Prius AND I forgot to mention the '07 Camry we purchased for our son who still drives it. We've found them to be extremely reliable; just like the local dealership.

I hope you are as pleased as I have been, JT!Uhhhh, I think you mean BCJ, right? I would never take on payments for a new car.

Toyota is pretty decent though, my mom had a mid-'80s Cressida, early '80s Celica Supra (as mentioned above), and my grandma had an early '90s Camry that my father inherited. They're all pretty decent.


It's so hard to believe Saturn isn't a company anymore.:Pirate:They are a company, just not one named "Saturn", but GM is still GM. HA! I typed "Saturd" by accident just now.


So, what an interesting thread to uncover with this timing in my life. But first some background... That Volvo 240GL wagon was mostly ok for a few years until its electrical harness started dying and we found out that Volvo refuses to support that wiring harness anymore, the excuse being "safety" -- thanks for the 18-year-old brick, jerks. Car simply stopped running over and over until it became hopeless, we left it in Pasadena for the night and donated it to charity the next day, naturally it started right up. We then got the aforementioned Olds 88 in like-new condition and that GM car was unreliable transportation, big in the wrong ways, an underpowered, heavy front-engine car, and all the GM plasticky crap and mildew problems eventually reared their heads... oh, and the GM computer-controlled suspension constantly was blowing its fuses, leaving it swaying on every start, stop, and turn on the road like a yacht on the high seas. That was the car I got my license in back in '07, as many of you know, but I inherited a Mazda MX-6 which was a dream to drive compared to the Olds, even though it was the underpowered 4-cyl. The Mazda needed a few repairs here and there, but the worst was when the shift solenoid died and required a whole new transmission, which I got. Then tragically it got slow-speed rear-ended twice in the course of 2 years, and the salvage title took away the last of the car's repair value, it's hard to upkeep something the state makes impossible to insure despite the damage being fairly minor in reality. And the final straw was the new transmission's first gear having a fraction of its regular torque and power when cold, that became a safety concern I couldn't take to Comic-Con and the plan was to scrape together as much as possible - $3k all told - to get something used but decent.

I invested $58 in a month of unlimited license-plate Carfax reports, and that paid for itself considerably, a lot of Craigslist and other ads had garbage cars that looked fine but weren't - some were salvages and rebuilds, some had liens and other title issues, some had failed smog over and over suggesting serious problems and possibly cheats, some had failed smog and never passed again. We spent a lot of anguish searching for cars, eventually giving up on the idea of a Dodge Intrepid (there had been a lot of them at the beginning of the search, but as soon as I was serious to buy, they dried up and then my mechanic said to avoid like the plague, get a Japanese car). I had changed focus to Camrys, there was one right where I grew up in Santa Monica but they didn't call me back on the voicemail I left, and when I called back after a busy weekend they had sold it the night before.

My mom found on Craigslist a Nissan Maxima that was within price range and age range (2000 or newer for me) and mileage range (under 15k per year) that happened to be right up the street from where I live, my sister lives, where my mom lived when I was born, where my grandma lived, where I went to school, etc. So we went and test drove it, checked it out, there were a few issues they didn't seem to know about, and the wife had beat the driver's side up a little using every surface of the car as edge-feelers, but overall it looked good. We haggled them down due to a few repair questions, and I bought it the next day after they were able to provide me with a new smog test.

So the 2000 Nissan Maxima GLE (luxury edition) V6 automatic with 222hp on a FWD is what I bought. It has leather interior (I don't care, but the fabric of my last car did deteriorate too quickly), CD/cassette Bose 200w sound system (stock), power windows and seats, automatic climate control with working AC, remote system with 2 remotes and 1 key (it came with 1 remote and 3 keys originally, who knows what happened there), automatic lights, and enough rear seat space to seat my 6' 7" step-father in comfort. The amount of horsepower on a front wheel drive car like this is ridiculous, it gets 0-60 of 6.6 seconds, top end is in the 140s, produces torque steer and wheelspin on power takeoffs. It looks pretty boring but it's a rocket with more speed than I can use with its very light steering feel and sedan vehicle height (that height creates a little body roll even with the suspension designed to handle this car). Its engine was named one of the top engines for its year sold in the US.

The negatives are that it's the Thirstymobile even on its best day, the sedan styling isn't aerodynamic enough, and then it turns out the very expensive oxygen sensor(s) are bad on it and the smog guy cleared that code to hide it so it's losing even more mileage. The remotes are a little fussy. The rear trunk light won't come on, and the sellers had car fluid bottles leak into the carpet and spare tire cover so the trunk required a lot of work. The aforementioned dents, including one at the TOP of the fender that broke the paint and now I'm not sure what to do - how do you gouge the TOP of a fender?!? I assume she backed into a hanging storage box or something along those lines.

I took it to my mechanic after getting it and he immediately sent me to get 2 new tires, they had mismatched tires on the car and 2 were bald. I knew this was going to happen, it came out of the haggling money we saved, and I bought 2 tires but got bad news on one of the good tires I saved, they had driven on it flat and cracked the sidewall, it was now a thing to look out for. I took the car back to the mechanic and left it overnight for a lookover. When I got it back the next day, he explained the oxy sensor issue which I can wait on until I need to get it smogged, and said it didn't need struts right away and the alignment wasn't bad, everything else looked good, so he wasn't charging me. I took those savings and put them into the other 2 tires, it was a matched set I had broken up and then put back together. :p

The blue book on the car is $1500 over what I put into it. And it is fun to drive despite looking boring, it fits more stuff and people more comfortably, it's decent. Right now, its name is "The Thirstymobile" though, nickname is "Rocket" because its light pedals on taking it home gave me a green light-takeoff tire screech BY ACCIDENT!

Bel-Cam Jos
07-02-2013, 06:12 PM
Sorry to hear that, that's REALLY low mileage for a car to eat it, in LA even with all those problems (sounds like a short in the ECM and/or ground wiring in the electrical system) it'd still have gotten you over a grand.

Sounds like you got a decent car at least, sorry to hear about the payments. If you got the V6 Camry, watch out, that car is thirsty, my grandma had a V6 Camry and while it performed well, revs over 2000 sucked down the dino-juice like it was going out of style.

Uhhhh, I think you mean BCJ, right? I would never take on payments for a new car.

They are a company, just not one named "Saturn", but GM is still GM. HA! I typed "Saturd" by accident just now.When my totaled accident occurred and I bought this most recent Saturn (no 'D' ;) ), they assumed I had much more miles driven. I always have low mileage, thanks to working close to home. The trade-in value was obviously helped by an average of about 6500 yearly.
What I looked into wasn't just the expense of repairs (over $1500, often) but the fact that they tended to be temporary fixes for those people. That's never good.
But I'd prefer the peace of mind of a vehicle that odds are, will run properly. It has good MPG, too.

JediTricks
07-03-2013, 12:40 PM
Yeah, when you buy GM, they're not so much repairs as they are band-aids, think of them as extended car payments. :p

Did you get the 4 cylinder Camry for that good mileage? I'm assuming you didn't get the hybrid or you would have mentioned it. And the V6 has middling mileage, not better than my old '93 Mazda, only 3mpg better than my Maxima and it's got more horsepower.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-03-2013, 05:04 PM
As far as I know, it's the 4-cylinder. I'd have considered the hybrid, but it wasn't available for the rebates I got. Now, with less gas taxes being paid, some states want to make it even more expensive to buy "green" vehicles.

JediTricks
07-04-2013, 02:13 PM
As far as I know, it's the 4-cylinder. I'd have considered the hybrid, but it wasn't available for the rebates I got. Now, with less gas taxes being paid, some states want to make it even more expensive to buy "green" vehicles.How can you not know how many cylinders are on the brand new car you just bought? That to me seems really bizarre, like right up there with not knowing what make it is. Did they let you test drive a similar model and have you compare it to the other sized engine? How could they not tell you this? The 4cyl is more efficient but more sluggish and sometimes more fragile, the V6 is more expensive but has more power, they should have at least had you try out the differences, maybe take it on the freeway around big trucks or something.

Some of those "green" vehicles are worse for the environment. Not only are the materials used to make their batteries very bad for the environment, but most of the electricity currently used in many areas is coal... including here in SoCal. So it's not all sunshine and smiles with hybrid cars, there's a hidden impact.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-04-2013, 04:49 PM
All I test drove were 4 cylinders. I told him I didn't want a 6, nor a red or black color.

JediTricks
07-05-2013, 12:03 PM
All I test drove were 4 cylinders. I told him I didn't want a 6, nor a red or black color.Ah, ok, you were aiming for this.

Why not red or black? Too exciting? :D Too Sith?

Bel-Cam Jos
11-02-2013, 04:14 PM
Well, here are my copilots (along with God... and my guardian angel... and Chuck Yeager... and Large Marge... and Roger Murdock [NOT Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who only tries in the playoffs]... :D ) of said new car. What's that flashing? :wristslap:

JediTricks
11-09-2013, 02:49 AM
Well, here are my copilots (along with God... and my guardian angel... and Chuck Yeager... and Large Marge... and Roger Murdock [NOT Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who only tries in the playoffs]... :D ) of said new car. What's that flashing? :wristslap:How did we not hear about this on our get-together???

Bel-Cam Jos
11-09-2013, 08:59 AM
I hadn't "hired" them yet (they were on stocking shelf 94 at Pep Boys back then; 94). And it was a "no questions asked" agreement. :10,000:

JediTricks
11-09-2013, 12:40 PM
I hadn't "hired" them yet (they were on stocking shelf 94 at Pep Boys back then; 94). And it was a "no questions asked" agreement. :10,000:For that much I could almost buy my own sunshade! :JediEyeRoll: