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View Full Version : Where's the propulsion on the Gunship?



JediTricks
04-24-2003, 07:09 PM
I was just looking at the Action Fleet version of this ship and I realized that the whole thing is basically just a big flying passenger compartment with some guns attached to it. There are no engine exhausts and those big round cylinders on the top are mostly part of the missile-launching system. Behind them are some coils, but they're way small so I don't think they're the main repulsorlifts.

This ship has a weird design in general come to think of it, it's convenient for carrying troops, but what's the point of the wings? They clearly don't supply lift from a conventional aerodynamic standpoint, so are they the drive systems?

Capitan_Moroni
04-25-2003, 07:12 PM
Well, ya see, whenver you notice somthing like that..a wizard did it..:D :D

I dunno though, maybe it kind of works like a really really high-tech hang glider:confused: :confused: :confused: :cry: :confused:

LTBasker
04-25-2003, 08:00 PM
JT, those coil pieces are most definitely the engines. Sad ain't it? :D Yeah obviously the wings would be impossible to provide aerodynamic lift, due to the front being so heavy compared to them. I'd guess since it was based on a Soviet chopper, you could say the main lift is a lifting unit on the top. That's stretching it though...

stillakid
04-25-2003, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
This ship has a weird design in general come to think of it, it's convenient for carrying troops, but what's the point of the wings?

In the grand tradition that is Star Wars, stealin...er, um, imitation is the best form of flattery. :)

gibbyhayes
04-26-2003, 04:18 AM
Yo, stillakid backoff. This is a bit of stretch - they both have wings. wow.

stillakid
04-26-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by gibbyhayes
Yo, stillakid backoff. This is a bit of stretch - they both have wings. wow.

Puh-lease! Obviously these aren't just "wings." A bat has wings, a bi-plane has wings, a fly has wings, a B-52 has wings, a tampon has wings. Clearly there is no similarity between those examples and the wings on a gunship. However, anyone with their eyes open can see the remarkable similarity between the Bird of Prey wings and the Gunship.

Capitan_Moroni
04-26-2003, 05:43 PM
I conquer........

LTBasker
04-26-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
Puh-lease! Obviously these aren't just "wings." A bat has wings, a bi-plane has wings, a fly has wings, a B-52 has wings, a tampon has wings. Clearly there is no similarity between those examples and the wings on a gunship. However, anyone with their eyes open can see the remarkable similarity between the Bird of Prey wings and the Gunship.

Well there are alot of things that do have bent down wings, Stilla. There aren't really real-life bent down wings because they haven't designed something that can fly with those. However, these type of "drag" wings are throughout several sci-fi. You could say that there is a similiarity between the two top pods and the forward cockpit, but that's just a basic design. The Gunship *was* based on a Soviet Chopper, the bent wings are to be more stylish. The Chopper does have forward bubble canopies, btw.

I don't doubt that they could have gotten ideas based on the Klingon Bird of Prey, Lucasfilm does work on the Star Trek movies except for Final Frontier, but still. I'm just saying that those are basic designs, and the drag wings are basic sci-fi "coolness" designs. I don't see it as a problem though if they did base it off the design of the Klingon BoP, Lucasfilm designed several starships for First Conact and whatnot. Actually a Lucasfilm employee design the highly loved Akira class.

stillakid
04-27-2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by LTBasker
Well there are alot of things that do have bent down wings, Stilla. There aren't really real-life bent down wings because they haven't designed something that can fly with those. However, these type of "drag" wings are throughout several sci-fi. You could say that there is a similiarity between the two top pods and the forward cockpit, but that's just a basic design. The Gunship *was* based on a Soviet Chopper, the bent wings are to be more stylish. The Chopper does have forward bubble canopies, btw.

I don't doubt that they could have gotten ideas based on the Klingon Bird of Prey, Lucasfilm does work on the Star Trek movies except for Final Frontier, but still. I'm just saying that those are basic designs, and the drag wings are basic sci-fi "coolness" designs. I don't see it as a problem though if they did base it off the design of the Klingon BoP, Lucasfilm designed several starships for First Conact and whatnot. Actually a Lucasfilm employee design the highly loved Akira class.

I never qualified it as good or bad. I simply suggested that it just is. :)

JediTricks
04-27-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by LTBasker
I'd guess since it was based on a Soviet chopper, you could say the main lift is a lifting unit on the top. That's stretching it though... I think you're right, it does remind me a bit of that Russian gunship, called something like the Hind. If those coils are the engines, then they're WAY too far back to be a reasonable main lifting force though because it would take a lot more energy to lift from the rear than from the middle. I'm not saying you're wrong, merely that it wouldn't make sense if used this way.


Originally posted by stillakid
However, anyone with their eyes open can see the remarkable similarity between the Bird of Prey wings and the Gunship. Well, they are angled downward, they do meet the fuselage at rounded coils, and they do have guns near the tips of the wings, but I'm not sure I see this as a "remarkable" similarity to the KBOP.

Oh, and tampons don't have wings, pads do. :D

stillakid
04-27-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by JediTricks
Well, they are angled downward, they do meet the fuselage at rounded coils, and they do have guns near the tips of the wings, but I'm not sure I see this as a "remarkable" similarity to the KBOP.

As Basker pointed out, this design apparently is prominent amongst many sci-fi ships. That said, I'm not a sci-fi afficienado so I'm not personally familiar with any beyond the Bird of Prey so I can neither agree nor disagree.

This discussion is pushing me toward wanting to begin a whole new thread in which the official and "non-official", um, "borrowing" of influences appear throughout the saga are gathered together in one place. This wing design is one. The "remarkable" similarity between the opening sequences of AOTC and The Fifth Element is another. Stuff like that.

JediTricks
04-28-2003, 08:59 PM
Basker can fill in the blanks, but I personally can't think of 1 other sci-fi ship that has wings like this. I suppose by that, you could call it a "remarkable" similarity, but I still don't see it that way (though I'm not 100% sure how I could quantify that reasoning).

Jargo
04-29-2003, 07:00 AM
Battle beyond the stars, the hero ship john boy walton piloted called Mother, that had a similar shape to the front profile of the republic gunship if memory serves me. Slightly more ergonomic but similar in profile shape. side on it looked not a lot like this but from the front.... I could be wrong of course and I'm prepared to admit it if I am. Didn't the main ship in Terrahawks have a similar shape? And in Starfleet wasn't there a ship in that with droopy wings and a forward cockpit?

As far as propulsion goes the wings are basically there to hold the altitude control repulsors and the main body has repulsorlift at a massive scale compared to a speeder.
The rear rectangular vented section above the rear gun is the thrust engines. the slats are directional. At least as far as the incredible cross sections book is concerned anyway.

Fixer
04-29-2003, 10:16 AM
The Republic Gunship is one example of many in the Prequel Trilogy that underscores the loss of technical believability in Star Wars universe designs that has occurred with the absence of Ralph McQuarrie. McQuarrie's experience in real life aerospace design is heavily evident in his creations for the Original Trilogy. As aesthetically pleasant as Chiang & Co.'s work for the Prequel Trilogy may be, it doesn't possess the same sense of technical believability. That the Gunship doesn't seem to follow any established Star Wars design ethic forward or backward is another issue.

In addition, downswept wings aren't new to Star Wars. The Skyhopper, Snow Speeder (to some extent) and Imperial Shuttle used this configuration (though the latter's wings were articulated for landing).

The Star Trek Klingon Bird-Of-Prey was designed by ILM's VFX art director Nilo Rodis-Jamero who was inspired to create the large engine pods and downswept wings to evoke the image of a football player. On a side note, Rodis-Jamero also contributed designs for ESB & ROTJ.

LTBasker
04-29-2003, 11:31 AM
There's a bunch of other Star Trek craft with bent down wings/pylons:
Akira Class
Yeager Class
Prometheus Class (well actually only by default, it's also got upper Pylons in an X design)
Nebula Class
The Schmitiar (sp?) from Nemesis is angled to have it's "wings" come down
Klingon D-7
Klingon Vor'Cha
Plus more that I can't think of off the top of my head right now

Then there's non-Trek ships:
Andromeda (much like the Schmitiar)
E-Wing (SW:EU)
Ergh, can't think of more, I think I'll look around cause I know there's a good amount. The drop-wing look has been around longer than the Kling Bird of Prey, however there is the possibility they had designed it for the drop-wing, and used Trek ships or the Klingon BoP at least for points of reference. :)


JT, on the lifting propulsion subject I meant that there could be an emitter at the top front of it to help it, like the button on the Saga Gunship. That's obviously gotta be used for something, and I don't think it's a mere antenna array, but like I said, that's definitely stretching it... :(


Edit: I can't believe I completely forgot! Well ok I can, anyways, the Snowspeeder!! It has bent 'wings' AND it's blaster turrets are on the "top" of the 'wings'. It's also got the double cockpit and the reverse turret on it, so basically the Gunship could just be a bloated Snowspeeder with troop transport hold.

stillakid
04-30-2003, 08:37 AM
Yeeahhhh....uh, okay, but it's not just about wings that point down. It's about overall design similarity. Aside from the changes to the crew compartment, the wings on the BOP are seriously close to being a match for the Gunship.

But, okay. I guess Star Wars never borrows from anyone. It is truly unique in every way. :D

JediTricks
05-01-2003, 08:34 PM
Jargo, thanks for the Incredible Cross-Sections reasonings, I didn't pick up that one yet so I have missed out there. On the wings, is it the whole wing surface that expells the altitude control repulsors or just the rear edge or something?

The vents in the back seem really dinky compared to the amount of thrust they appear to be generating, is the engine inside cramped or spread out or non-existant? Also, it seems like at that location they're going to give off a lot of downward force even if they're directional. This thing must be SUPER nose-heavy in flight since most of its thrust and lifting force is in the highest aft section.


Originally posted by Fixer
The Republic Gunship is one example of many in the Prequel Trilogy that underscores the loss of technical believability in Star Wars universe designs that has occurred with the absence of Ralph McQuarrie. McQuarrie's experience in real life aerospace design is heavily evident in his creations for the Original Trilogy. As aesthetically pleasant as Chiang & Co.'s work for the Prequel Trilogy may be, it doesn't possess the same sense of technical believability. That the Gunship doesn't seem to follow any established Star Wars design ethic forward or backward is another issue. Excellent point Fixer, I totally agree, except I'm not even that smitten with the aestheics of Chiang's designs. I know a lot of folks say "well, Chiang's design concepts are more like Earth's airplane and car designs of the '30s and '40s compared to modern design concepts of the OT", but I don't really buy that, those Earth vehicles were sleeker and more about aesthetics, but they still betrayed a lot of technical limitations and reasoning; I don't see that with Prequel designs.


Originally posted by LTBasker
JT, on the lifting propulsion subject I meant that there could be an emitter at the top front of it to help it, like the button on the Saga Gunship. That's obviously gotta be used for something, and I don't think it's a mere antenna array, but like I said, that's definitely stretching it... :( I'm pretty sure that's just a retractable sensor array, it's got a black window and is far too small to be the central repulsor.

As for the snowspeeder, I see what you're getting at, but the snowspeeder is a sleek, wide unibody repulsorcraft with aerodynamic considerations, centralized thrust, and clearly-defined engines and thrust nozzles which is quite different from the RGS; I think it would have a miserable time with windsheer and body roll since it's a thin flying wall with huge control surfaces attached to the top of the ship.


Stilla, I've been told by several folks that elements of the battle of Geonosis are lifted straight from Nam including the use of the helicopter-esque Rep Gunship. The gunship body design seems to be directly borrowed from the Russian Hind helicopter (seen in "Rambo III" ;)). I just don't think the general shapes of the wings or fuselage are a direct ripoff of Trek's KBOP. From directly above, I can see some similarity, but the body of the RGS is this narrow, tall thing with the wings attached to the top of the fuselage while the KBOP is mostly a centralized body with a command module sticking out the front on a stalk.

Sentinel18725
05-01-2003, 10:57 PM
Quote: Puh-lease! Obviously these aren't just "wings." A bat has wings, a bi-plane has wings, a fly has wings, a B-52 has wings, a tampon has wings. Clearly there is no similarity between those examples and the wings on a gunship. However, anyone with their eyes open can see the remarkable similarity between the Bird of Prey wings and the Gunship.

atampon doesn't have wings....a pad does

LTBasker
05-01-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
But, okay. I guess Star Wars never borrows from anyone. It is truly unique in every way. :D

No no, you'e right, you're the master, Star Wars sucks in every possible way!!!!!!! KILL LUCAS KILL LUCAS KILL LUCAS KILL LUCAS!

stillakid
05-02-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
No no, you'e right, you're the master, Star Wars sucks in every possible way!!!!!!! KILL LUCAS KILL LUCAS KILL LUCAS KILL LUCAS!

What I find amusing is that almost everyone acknowledges that Star Wars "borrows" from many sources, but very few people are willing to place specifics upon the claim.

Again, I never suggested that it was good or bad. It was just an observation of another example of "influence." :)

So why the unwillingness to acknowledge any similarity which is obviously there? I don't get it.

Jedi Clint
05-03-2003, 12:28 AM
Looks like they borrowed from the Hind to me. Just drop the tail section and the props. Other than the "wings" angled downward at the rear of the craft, I see no similarity to the KBOP.

JediTricks
05-03-2003, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by Sentinel18725
a tampon doesn't have wings....a pad does I already mentioned that back on page 1 (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=246120#post246120). ;)


Clint, looking at that small pic of the Hind, it's hard to see how the RGS was inspired by anything but the Hind. :D The Hind even has non-lifting wings near the rear that hold multiple weapons, they're just smaller and attached to a lower area of the fuselage.


Here's another question about the RGS' design, what's the point of those doors? They don't close off much of the actual troop area, at most only 1/3rd of it - the bulk of what the doors cover is that angled aft section of the cabin where nobody stands. And why have a gunship like this that isn't trans-atmospheric? It'd have to be launched from a fairly low height too in order to keep from starving those on board of air, not to mention the problems with the lack of air pressure higher up - you can't pressurize the cabin here unless there are some hidden doors or well-concealed energy fields at the openings.

stillakid
05-03-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Jedi Clint
Looks like they borrowed from the Hind to me. Just drop the tail section and the props. Other than the "wings" angled downward at the rear of the craft, I see no similarity to the KBOP.

Nice pic! Thanks for showing us that. I agree that this is the closest relation to the Gunship we've seen. But there are still obvious ripoffs from the Bird of Prey. Bird of Prey+Hind=Gunship. Simple. :)