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JediCole
11-18-2001, 12:54 PM
Since this particular spoiler was hoisted on us by some posters in the action figure section, I know that Jango Fett is rumored to "lose his head" in Episode II. If this is to be the case, it marks an alarming, "Batman movie villain" trend in Lucas' writing. Create a fan-popular character then kill him off unceremoniously before the end of the picture! It smacks of the fate of Joker and Penguin in the Batman franchise. In that case, the filmmakers showed little understanding of the necessity of the durability of villains. Kill them all off and you have no one left for future films. It seems Lucas wants no enduring antagonists in this particular portion of the saga. It really makes me wonder about his strength as a writer. Any thoughts?

Magnolia-Fan
11-18-2001, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by JediCole
Kill them all off and you have no one left for future films. It seems Lucas wants no enduring antagonists in this particular portion of the saga.

What about the Emperor, Vader, and Jabba?

Wolfwood319
11-18-2001, 02:30 PM
I believe that killing Jango Fett was necessary to see the development of Boba Fett and why he is what he is.

And Boba Fett is in AOTC, ANH, ESB, ROTJ, and presumeably EIII, so saying that they kill of all the villans is not true at all.

GNT
11-19-2001, 01:11 AM
So where does Boba get the suit? Does he still it off the dead body of his father?

GNT
11-19-2001, 01:15 AM
DELETE!

Tycho
11-19-2001, 02:28 AM
The best part comes with Boba Fett:

the "Wookiee scalps" he wears are not just that.

They are the braids / scalps of Jedi Padawans he's killed for revenge for the death of his father, at the hands of Mace Windu.

The real question is whether (in Episode 3) a 16 year old Boba Fett is capable of killing Mace, a Jedi Master?

I point out that Mace might be safe from Fett since he doesn't have any scalp to take. I also think that if Darth Vader gets to be seen fighting any Jedi in Episode 3, it would be Mace, Plo Koon, or Ki-Adi Mundi that he gets to kill, as they are the most recognizable Jedi that survive Episode 2.

Spoiler: Yoda and Obi-Wan live.

And there's seriously no way Darth Vader will face Obi-Wan Kenobi during the prequels. It's not going to happen, because Vader remembers what happened to him as Anakin, the last time these two fought. I also think Obi-Wan is startled by his former apprentice's physical appearance once he sees him (for the first time as Darth Vader) in Episode Four.

But away from that and back to Fett, an angst-ridden young punk who sets out to eliminate all the Jedi just because he's angry about what Mace did to his dad sounds like a genocidal maniac, less a calm, cool, and collected bounty hunter. Daniel Logan will play a very different age for Boba Fett in this movie (and if he reprises his role) - also in the next one.

Darth Trasko
11-19-2001, 03:45 AM
Spoiler: Yoda and Obi-Wan live.

Well thats ruined it for me now :rolleyes:

Rollo Tomassi
11-19-2001, 10:48 AM
Future films?? The "future films" have already been made! The're called the original Trilogy.

Those aren't jedi braids, they are wookiee braids given to Fett as a gift of honor and sacrifice.

Co Jo-Da
11-19-2001, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Wolfwood319
I believe that killing Jango Fett was necessary to see the development of Boba Fett and why he is what he is.

We still don't know where Boba is when that happens, who knows maybe he's helping dear old dad kill so Jedi's. Either way we know Boba will escape and continue the Fett Legacy as a fearsome Bounty Hunter in the original (future) films.

Tycho
11-19-2001, 01:51 PM
Rollo Tomassi:

First, I think I've heard of those movies: The Lost Hope, The Elephant Struck Out, and Rebirth of the Jetsons?

Must have seen them, and this guy Bubba Foot is in them?

Second, and seriously, I think George is changing things on us again. The Wookiee braids concept came from the 1980 Topps Star Wars trading card, meant to serve as Boba Fett's bio. I have the card and it says they are Wookiee braids. So what? Marvel Comics also said Fett was Jaster Mareel. A journeyman protector. Who's protector? A hired gun for Count Dooku. Sounds more like Fett's father now. So while I like the EU and think they are making a great effort at making it seemingly blend with cannon, it all can be altered and in Fett's case, say it was just rumor, or an alias, perhaps so that such a famous figure (in his fictional life) is not linked to war crimes for his actions during the Clone Wars.

In any case, in Fett's character as we've known it for over 20 years, he has some kind of honor-bound sense of justice and duty. Killing Wookiee's is not a realistic part of his character profile, though he might've said they were - just to get out of discussing what they really are, and what it means to him. I think that since the incorporation of the padawan braids in the pre-production of Episode One, George decided that he's make Fett take scalps like the Indians did. I think it is an awesome idea and I bet we'll see young Mr. Fett carry a scalping knife, maybe even in Episode 2. For sure in Episode 3.

See Legends of the Fall and the movie's incredible World War I scenes. When Samuel dies, Tristan (Brad Pitt) goes and takes like 20 scalps from German soldiers, for a blood revenge. Boba Fett will do well with this character.

And yes, according to spoiler storyboards, Young Fett screams "Nooooo!" when he sees Mace kill his dad (clone progenator, whatever - for all sense and purpose, his father) and then he rushes out of hiding (during the arena battle) and picks up the fallen Fett helmet, his fathers' bloody head still in it. If the helmet is repainted, with red (the blood of Jedi?), it is the same one worn by Boba Fett (though again, in EU lore, Mr. Fett has spares).

Rollo Tomassi
11-19-2001, 03:03 PM
I was just thinking, it makes the Jodo Kast stories a lot cooler when Fett hunts him down and kills him. Especially if the Armor is unique to the Fett family. I'd be hella ****ed some impostor wearing my daddy's armor...:mad:

As for the EU lore, a lot of time passes between Episode III and Episode IV. i see no reason why Boba Fet couldn't try his hand at other things like Journeyman protector on Concorde Dawn and take assumed names like Jaster Mereel for a while. Remember, he's a 16 year old orphan with his own ship. I highly doubt he'd jump right into the bounty hunting business. I think of him as a Bruce Wayne type who goes around getting trained to be the best warrior he can be before donning his father's armor. So joining the Stormtroopers for awhile (ahhhh...the bitter irony!!) being a Journeyman protector, basically ramming around the galaxy for a decade of so. Maybe Jango was from Concorde Dawn and Boba was going home? There is just too many unanswered questions concerning Jango to speculate on the complete history of Boba Fett. As for the braids, He was always a cold, calculating character, not at all given over to Wookie hunting and other such nonsense. I've always thought a nice touch to rounding out the character was an adventure where a young Fett befriends a wookiee and in the course of the story recieves the wookiee braids as a sort of token of bonding and friendship. But that's my pet theory...

Wolfwood319
11-19-2001, 03:27 PM
Actually, I think I remember reading somewhere that GL was discussing Boba Fett, and it is in fact Padawan braids that he wears, not wookie scalps.

Remember, as much of EU that is out there and for the most part believed to be part of SW, GL can change in a heartbeat if he so desires.

Co Jo-Da
11-20-2001, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
Rollo Tomassi:

I think it is an awesome idea and I bet we'll see young Mr. Fett carry a scalping knife, maybe even in Episode 2. For sure in Episode 3.

Does anyone think Boba will be in the Episode III? I hope so, maybe working with Palpatine to help hunt down the last remaining Jedi but maybe I'm reaching.

Tycho
11-20-2001, 06:16 AM
I don't know if he'll be working WITH Sidious and Tyranus, or later with Palpatine and Vader. There are some distinctions.

1) They will know of him, and may just regard him and his personal vendetta to slaughter the Jedi as just an enigma. It helps their cause, doesn't hinder it, so they leave him well enough alone. "This could work to our advantage. Wipe them out. All of them."

2) The infamous hologram could contact young Fett, aka Darth Sidious, and say "I can show you the path to power, boy. Real power. Join me and I will complete your training. With our combined power we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy!" and henceforth, Fett will answer to Sidious for (maybe for pay - he has to survive financially somehow).

3) Count Dooku already knows and (is trusted?) by young Fett, so he comes to him and says, "Let me tell you the truth about your father. He wanted you to have this when you were old enough." So Fett stays aligned with Dooku, and unknowingly carries on the Sith agenda. He's cut loose when Dooku is killed, and further hates the Jedi, as he will not fully understand the conflict and see it as a Jedi (even one turned to the Dark Side such as Anakin) had killed his father, then his surrogate father-figure (Dooku). Dooku may never reveal to him that he is Lord Tyranus, but may plan to try and use Fett to elminate Palpatine, so that he can become the Master. If Fett believes in the Confederacy. I think that's a stretch, save for the fact that Fett's father believed, or at least was in the employment of, the Confederacy. I'd rather think that Fett is never assigned to get Palpatine, nor the thought of using him that way crosses Tyranus' mind. And Fett grows to think of Palpatine as the popular elected Chancellor, and later rightful Emperor, who Will establish order.

4) Next, Palpatine, that really nice galactic senator turned Chancellor, takes a benevolent interest in the orphans left behind from the Clone Wars, and gives Fett appropriate care and education so he can make something of his future. It puts Fett in the Chancellor's carefully woven plot to create justice in the galaxy by elminating the Jedi, and improves the Chancellor's public approval rating (like any president taking pictures with needy children). Palpatine offers Fett the chance to "make ammends for his family's allegiance to the Confederacy," by helping re-unite the Republic and establish order. It may be the duty of the righteous and just to eliminate the defectors and vanquish the evil Jedi. Fett takes command of Republic soldiers. Later he may leave on principal, such as the infamous disagreement with orders that caused "Jaster Mareel" to kill his commanding officer and take off on the run, later bounty hunting to make a living.

5) Now at some point, the historic truth about the Mandalorian allegiance to the Sith may become known, and Fett could see it as his duty to serve them in the Clone Wars. Ulic Qel Droma's efforts with enslaving the Mandalorians to the Sith might be EU that is never legitimized by the movies as cannon, but the story behind Ulic's story might have been developed because Lucas instructed the licensing department that "the Mandalorians have always had a historic allegiance to the Sith - one they cannot refuse." I use the term Mandalorian to refer to one trained in these martial arts and the practice of using their advanced weapons, not to refer to a species - such as a Ninja. If Watto could learn Ninjitsu and become a Master, he would be a Toydarian but also a Ninja, just like Qui-Gon and SaeSae Tiin are both Jedi, but you can't tell by looking at their physical attributes.


I think #1 is very believeable, though uninventive.

# 2 is sort of omnimous and dark, cool, and shows the reach of Sidious' power, and I like it. It is harder to swallow though.

#3 is sort of pragmatic and very possible. With some kind of combination of #3 and #4, maybe both in that linear order, as in Fett serves Dooku, learns he is a Sith eliminated (by Anakin?), and then falls in with the boss, Sidious / Palpatine in one capacity or another. Fett and Vader will probably not get along. Since Fett is killing Jedi, Anakin might still feel some loyalty or bond with the Jedi, or at least feel it is his personal matter alone to settle things with them for his revenge - and Fett should not be involved. The opposite could happen, and while he's a Dark Jedi, Anakin might take it upon himself to take the young Fett under his wing, and "not make the same mistakes as Obi-Wan." He'll help Fett find the legacy of his family (an important issue with Anakin, i.e. Shmi Skywalker) and then let the young man choose his own destiny, instead of force-feed it to him, as Obi-Wan did to Anakin. "The old I won't treat my son the way my father treated me, bit." Fett goes off on his own, as Anakin obviously thinks Obi-Wan should've allowed himself to do.

#5 is the biggest stretch because it is founded in some EU, which we find doesn't hold a lot of water in the movies, and it also involves the Sith telling an outsider (even if he is one of their clones, too much about what is going on. I doubt it will happen this way, because the Sith operate in secret, do not explain themselves, and they manipulate folks with their present weaknesses, fears, and desires, not talk of historical allegiance and duty. Dooku is more likely to try that route, then Sidious, as Palpatine, or Vader.

JediTricks
11-20-2001, 10:25 AM
Tycho, were you reading the SSG forums in late '99 when I made up that "padawan braids, not wookiee braids" thing, and how I said it would get around the net and become some site's "spoiler info"? (It happened, I don't remember which site posted it as supposed fact though)

Rollo Tomassi
11-20-2001, 10:33 AM
I remember that, JT. that's why I laugh whenever anybody says "George Lucas said that they were padawan braids" From 30ft tall padawans maybe! Those things are huge!

Tycho
11-20-2001, 12:51 PM
Jedi Tricks, I being the genius that I am, thought that I looked at Obi-Wan's hair job for Episode One, and came up with that theory all myself. I'm pretty sure that I was the one who posted it somewhere in forums way-back-when.

Rollo Tamassi, I see where you base your comment "from 30 foot tall padawans." This could be from looking at the Hasbro toys, most likely. On the 12" Fett they just looped braids around his shoulders and let them come down on each side. They are supposed to represent 2 braids each, not one. Thus from looking at my 12" Electronic Fett, he seems to have 6 braids made from 3 hair colors (brunette, blonde, and black) whereas you could certainly view it as just 3 large ones "from 30 foot tall padawans) because of Hasbro's design flaws (or lack of knowledge, effort, or whatever - you fill in the blank).

Now the same MIGHT be true of the real Boba Fett costume worn by Jeremy Bulloch. You might have a really good photo that proves they used the same hair color to do long braids and looped them over Jeremy's shoulder. If so, the story STILL might be that they are Jedi braids, and costuming didn't know that, and they simplified material choices. Geeze, if one Jedi has a wine-bottle opener for a lightsaber, it is a lightsaber and he is still a Jedi, not "it is a bottle opener and he is a drunk." Some details were never meant to be shown that close on screen. And some things George might have made up long AFTER production in 1978 (for Empire's 1980 release) - such as in 1997 during Phantom's pre-production.

Owen Lars used to be 'officially Ben Kenobi's natural brother.' Now it appears it's 95% official he is not. So things change. But I can see this one about Fett coming right at us in just a few more months.

JediTricks
11-24-2001, 06:27 AM
Tycho, you didn't. :p

BTW, Fett could simply braid lots of jedi braids together based by color. Those could be dozens of braids.

JediCole
11-24-2001, 11:59 PM
Well, I was going to quote someone, but since so many of you seem to have missed the point of my statement about eduring atagonists (and quoted me in the process), I will simply make a general announcement.

The crux of this thread does not discount the original trilogy, Episodes IV-VI and their ability to maintain antagonists, but the alarming trend in the current spate of films, that is to say Episode I and (based on the multitude of spoilers) Episode II, to introduce a major antagonist only to destroy him by the end of the movie. While Jango's death may serve to further the plot development of Boba Fett's character in the saga, the real point I was making is that it seems George has lost his flair for the long-term antagonist. Though arguably Palpatine represents the ultimate in long-term villains, being both an on-screen presence or at the very least, an implied off-screen threat, his role is always that of the manipulator in the shadows. In Episodes IV-VI we have Darth Vader as our primary, ACTIVE anagonist for the entire series. My concern about the lack of such a character in the current series is not as unfounded as it may seem at first (and seemingly cursory) glance. It is not as if we have been presented the episondes in CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER. In such a scenario, it would seem that the long-term villain (Vader) was simply a product of the series maturing as a story (and Lucas maturing as story teller). However, despite the fact that the events in the classic trilogy follow those of the present one, one cannot deny that the films themselves, and thier subsequent stories and characters PREDATE the current (and as yet incomplete) saga.
Hopefully this will clarify things for those who did not glean the full meaning of my initial post.

The 'Xir
11-25-2001, 03:51 AM
--I think it is an awesome idea and I bet we'll see young Mr. Fett carry a scalping knife, maybe even in Episode 2.--

Uuhhh...he's always had one in his front left leg/shin pocket!
Go ahead and check! also...

Ummm... why can't they be both wookie and padawan braids? I don't know, I still like the whole wookie scalp thing because it just blends the whole chasing after Han and Chewie theme throughout the OT! That's just me!:crazed:

Tycho
11-25-2001, 11:46 AM
Good observation and nice reasoning, 'Xir.

JEDI COLE: I understand your reasoning and you do make a very valid and interesting point. So true. Maybe what George wants to do is set Darth Vader as the most enduring villain that goes the distance in Star Wars, and that includes downplaying other villains introduced in the prequels. Remember though, Count Dooku is going two movies. And finally, evil usually does lurk in the shadows as it's safer there, the darkness not being able to withstand being exposed to the light. So Palpatine does represent the true evil in the story, always in the shadows. Tastes and preferences for villains in your stories is yet another matter, and JediCole's points are well-expressed and correct.

Co Jo-Da
11-26-2001, 01:34 AM
I can't top reasoning like that...

mylow thehutt
12-12-2001, 04:56 PM
:D


GL has a thing with gruling deaths with the mane bad guys in the new saga,


#1.darthmaul cut in half!

#2.And Jango Fett beheaded ok this is sweet but an intresting turn for starwars.