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JediTricks
08-24-2006, 03:10 PM
Was G1 Frenzy the red version of G1 Rumble?Yes, he was, Rumble is the blue one, there was a lot of confusion over this for a while because of animation mistakes and other issues.


Droid, I saw that Don Murphy post, I think he should shove it up his ***, he's a total **** there. I especially love how he calls all the "haters" out and those leaking the photos cowards when he and Bay are the ones who are cowardly afraid to show the public what they've come up with, and Murph goes on and on about how everybody involved with production didn't get what they wanted in this movie. That is what I was referring to in post 238 when I said "I hate Don Murphy's attitude towards the fans who aren't on-board".

Droid
08-24-2006, 03:25 PM
And for those who need science "realism" to explain size changes, here it is:

"Cybertronium
This is a rare metal which only exists on cyberworlds, such
as Cybertron, Quintessa, and Lithone. It was created by the
Quintessons, and the knowledge for creating it has been lost.
However, machines on Cybertron can still create it, and Cybertron
itself is so rich with the metal that it should last several
hundred more generations of Transformers.

Cybertronium is a quantum element, comprised of various
quarks instead of complete protons and neutrons, but it has a
normal electron shell (77 electrons, so it may have external
properties similar to iridium). When mixed as an alloy with
normal metals, it gives one very interesting property. A
subspace pocket is created in hyperspace which is under
the space-time where the metal is.

Thus, Transformers who have cybertronium alloys, have their
own subspace bubble. When transforming, the transformer can dump
extra mass, weapons, accessories, and so forth, into this bubble.
The transformation cog is programmed to control this. Without
the cog, the transformer cannot transform. The cog knows how
much mass to dump or pull back and which weapons and items to
store or bring back for the various modes. This is how Megatron
and Soundwave are able to make such drastic changes in size.
This is also why weapons magically appear in the Transformers
hands. Optimus' trailer is also stored in a subspace bubble when
he is in robot mode.

Almost all transformers change their mass. Omega Supreme is
able to teleport the rest of this body with him when he turns
into a rocket. Most cars and fighters grow in size by 10% to 50%
when they turn back into robots.

However, some Transformers made on Earth do not have
cybertronium. The Dinobots did not. Thus, they do not change in
mass or size when they transform. See the Transformer Template
for the cost multiplier of having cybertronium (expanding plasma
and dimensional storage)."

All from this site:

http://www.meta-earth.com/tf/tf.html

Wonder what they'll do with Optimus' trailer in the movie, not that I'll see it.

JediTricks
08-24-2006, 04:40 PM
One of the two screenplay writers for the movie had this to say:
http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6420&mode=flat

USER: Hi alot of people are wondering how the transformers emotions will be shown since some "leaked photos" show that our favorite characters have no mouths. We able to see their emotions somehow?

ROBERT ORCI: those leaked photos aren't finished products, but more importantly, the special effects detail that is going to go into the movement of their faces and their eyes will tell it all. Not to mention the voice performances themselves.
Um... WHAT FACES?!? None of these designs we've seen so far have particularly recognizable faces at all beyond tiny eyes set behind a ton of techy junk.

Tycho
08-24-2006, 07:10 PM
I'll try to articulate a more intelligent response than my previous emotional expletive outburst - that did feel good though!

In quotes is Don Murphy.


Lots of things coming out which are costing people their jobs.

Well, what will it take for us to get it to cost Don Murphy and Michael Bay THEIR jobs???

Right now I'd almost like to see this project NOT happen. This is the first movie I can think of that I'd want a remake of, before I've even seen the original. Someone compared this to remaking Star Wars but eliminating the character of Darth Vader. It was Droid I think. That was a great comparison!
(not a good idea - remaking Star Wars without even JarJar might not work...might)


I have complaints too. There are things I wanted in this film which are not going to be in there.... Hell, Adam Goodman is in charge of production at Dreamworks. He’s the guy who BOUGHT this film. He is working day and night to get this ready for July 07. There are things I know he wishes were in the film. But they aren’t. You’ve talked online here to Brian Goldner. He owns the property but everything is not EXACTLY as he wishes. Tom Desanto is the most devoted producer out there- I know there are things he wishes were in there. You saw that Alex and Bob didn’t get everything they wanted. And Michael Bay, who spends 16 hour days shooting this mega-film? Michael Bay who sets up every shot himself and oversees to the point of operating the camera at times? He’s made a zillion compromises to get a great film he can be happy with.

So start over and get it right! Are you making the movie to be happy with what you created, or to sell it to yourself after your half-wit patch-job is completed? People want a G1 recreation. We've dreamed about that since the 1984 Hasbro cartoon we used to watch after school - apparently so did the people making this movie. Thanks to Droid we even have a sub-space explaination where Optimus Prime's trailer goes when he's a robot. Fine. Use that since it's cannon. Make it appear realistic, but use the explaination given, just do the CGI good and show the subspace vacule open and the trailer pop out or Soundwave change size! Dang it! I want to start swearing again but I have more intelligent points to make. Let's pause a moment while I say $%$@! OK, now we can continue.


This is something new and different. LIVE ACTION robots.

We don't want something new and different. We want G1!

I think Droid really did a great job at echoing all our sentiments towards Don Murphy. I'd like to %!$$ on him myself, but I have to put my groceries away. I just saw this and had to respond!

I have one last thought though: maybe they really are making G1. Maybe this is all a bad dream and part of a misinformation campaign to throw us all off? Then again, maybe it's not, but the backlash they are getting for this fiasco will change their minds. I could wait until 2008 even, if thats what it takes to get this right. I hope Paramount is not whipping their backs. If this is done well, it will make the money back that it's eating up in its creation's investment.

Phantom-like Menace
08-25-2006, 01:07 AM
So you negative ninnies- I’d like you to give us a break. And if you don’t, I’d like you to go away for a while. Seriously. Come back in six months. Wait until you SEE something that Michael and ILM and all of us have done. Not some leaked bull**** from some coward. Wait till you SEE the magic that I believe will be Transformers the Live Action Movie. Then if you don’t like what you see, hate away. Till then, I challenge you to be a grown up and reserve judgment. Even the majority who seem to like what you see have a right to hate later on.

I may not entirely agree with his attitude, but this doesn't seem like it's a totally uncalled for request. He even allows that people who like what they see right now might not like the finished project. Now, I have every expectation that this movie will sorely disappoint me, and I've had that expectation since Bay was picked to direct. If I complain now or complain then, it really doesn't matter to me.

Transformers, GI Joe, and Star Wars were the triumvirate that ruled my life when I was younger. Star Wars was tarnished by the lousy prequels and the special additions. Transformers--as far as I'm concerned was already ruined for me by anything after G1, and that '86 movie, minus a Weird Al song was nothing to remember. GI Joe managed to survive their movie (Cobra La?) in my mind, and somehow managed to survive the neon paint of the early nineties, but I expect it to be tarnished by a live action movie also.

It's an interesting comment that George Lucas would be a good director for this movie. Oddly enough, I could see myself agreeing with this. The largest reason I hated Lucas for in the prequels, all of his "Look what I can do with CGI" nonsense is exactly what's needed in Transformers. This is a movie where FX can almost tell the story by themselves. I don't need to identify with any humans, and if I did, Tyrese wouldn't be on the list of humans I am looking to identify with. I don't need anyone to put a human face on things. I need giant robots that nigh miraculously transform into planes and trains and automobiles and very small handguns and cassette players.

JediTricks
08-25-2006, 02:19 AM
Well, what will it take for us to get it to cost Don Murphy and Michael Bay THEIR jobs???:cry: I've never felt more close to you than at this moment. :D


Right now I'd almost like to see this project NOT happen. This is the first movie I can think of that I'd want a remake of, before I've even seen the original. I agree!


So start over and get it right! Are you making the movie to be happy with what you created, or to sell it to yourself after your half-wit patch-job is completed? Wow, spot-on!


We don't want something new and different. We want G1! I'll take an amalgamation of Transformers generations and concepts to a degree, something that honors the notion of TF without directly continuing/restating it... this project sadly though seems to not honor the notion of TF.



I may not entirely agree with his attitude, but this doesn't seem like it's a totally uncalled for request. He even allows that people who like what they see right now might not like the finished project. Now, I have every expectation that this movie will sorely disappoint me, and I've had that expectation since Bay was picked to direct. If I complain now or complain then, it really doesn't matter to me.I disagree that Murph is at all in the right, if he and Bay were completely keeping this project under the radar then yes Don would have a valid request, but these jackasses have been pimping this movie for MONTHS, giving away hints and secrets and on-set views and a very crappy year-in-advance teaser trailer, they have no problem at all with people seeing this POS right now, they just want to control *what* people see, but they let the genie out of the bottle and cannot turn around and complain that people are already forming expectations.

Kidhuman
08-25-2006, 12:23 PM
I give you Megatron in all his crappiness....


click me (http://www.actionfigs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=170&d=1156523136)

JediTricks
08-25-2006, 01:27 PM
KH, I covered that: post 244
It's what sent Tycho into a very-understandable rage.

Qui-Long Gone
08-25-2006, 03:05 PM
I give you Megatron in all his crappiness....


click me (http://www.actionfigs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=170&d=1156523136)


Of course in the original the Transformers had alien forms/mode and the modes they adopted on earth we recognize...gun, plane, truck....

If this is megatron in his final look, then yes, this is crapiness....if this is his alien form, which is what seems to be indicated....?????

bigbarada
08-25-2006, 03:42 PM
I actually had a chance to work on this movie when they were filming scenes down here in Alamogordo, but was out of town when they were asking for resumes. A couple of my friends at the college actually got jobs on the film and got to meet a few of the actors.

They watched about 2-3 weeks of filming, but have no idea what the final result of the movie will be.

It's not looking good right now. I've been waiting over 20 years for a live action Transformers movie and instead we get this. Why does every movie maker assume that they have to reinvent the wheel everytime they get ahold of a franchise? What's wrong with staying faithful to the source material?

Look at LOTR, Harry Potter and Chronicles of Narnia, all three of those franchises have stayed very faithful to their source material and all three have been very successful.

This annoys me to no end.:frus:

Tycho
08-25-2006, 07:16 PM
I like what Qui-Long Gone suggested: that maybe what we're seeing is their alien-alt modes, pre-earth? But that doesn't excuse their head sculpts. I don't see why those should be any different? (I mean between pre-earth and after earth). I also don't see why they should be different from recognizeable G1 characters.

Oh, the rumor is that Megatron is discovered frozen in the ice from back in earth's ice age or something. He still could be pre-modern earth when he's thawed out and then have himself altered to get around town. If this movie's going to be realistic, perhaps they shouldn't even start them out speaking English - or show them "awaken" around humans who are unaware they are being observed to give the Transformers time to learn their language. I'm sure if Spike is driving BumbleBee around, the latter will learn very quickly, "the humans' primative language."

It would be cool if they made up a "BinalTech language, or even R2D2 noises" for the robots to communicate with prior to their interactions with humans.

Phantom-like Menace
08-25-2006, 10:54 PM
I disagree that Murph is at all in the right, if he and Bay were completely keeping this project under the radar then yes Don would have a valid request, but these jackasses have been pimping this movie for MONTHS, giving away hints and secrets and on-set views and a very crappy year-in-advance teaser trailer, they have no problem at all with people seeing this POS right now, they just want to control *what* people see, but they let the genie out of the bottle and cannot turn around and complain that people are already forming expectations.

Still, we're talking about a movie that is almost a year away from being ready. Is the leaked stuff final? Do we have any context for it? There is speculation that the Megatron here is only his Cybertronian mode. Is that accurate? Is that just wishful thinking? If it's his Cybertronian mode, I can't make myself care. The Cybertronian mode can look like Al Capone as far as I'm concerned. I'd be pretty ****ed if I were making this movie and intended for that Megatron to be the protoform only to discover some wank has taken it to the Internet and worked everyone into a lynch mob because I've made Megatron into some kind of abomination. Of course my Megatron would be a Walther handgun, but that's beside the point.

Bumblebee as a camaro? Optimus Prime as the wrong type of cab with flames on the side? These are the types of things the studio has put out and put in context that are more than enough to justify being upset. Some more or less random picture which may or may not be what we speculate it is? We could give them some time to give us a lame *** explanation and then get angry.


If this movie's going to be realistic, perhaps they shouldn't even start them out speaking English - or show them "awaken" around humans who are unaware they are being observed to give the Transformers time to learn their language. I'm sure if Spike is driving BumbleBee around, the latter will learn very quickly, "the humans' primative language."

It would be cool if they made up a "BinalTech language, or even R2D2 noises" for the robots to communicate with prior to their interactions with humans.

"Bah weep granah weep ninni bong?"

Tycho
08-25-2006, 11:45 PM
"Bah weep granah weep ninni bong?"

There you go! Kup said that was the universal greeting!

That would be so funny if they put that in the movie. Only the die-hards would get the joke. Everyone else would be wondering "what the heck are they laughing at?"

figrin bran
08-26-2006, 12:07 AM
so they make LOTR TF's now? because that Megatron sure looks a bit like Sauron. i think i've seen some versions of Spawn that look like this Wrecktal torture device, as JT put it.

but not to worry for Don Murphy has helped me to see the light. once i see optimus prime walk, that'll make the movie worthwhile. :rolleyes:

Qui-Long Gone
08-26-2006, 01:55 PM
Making a good Megatron is going to be a major problem... because his Gun form is just plain silly, although for commercial purposes (the original intent of the Transformers), it worked as one of the coolest Transformer figures produced....I'm proud to still have Two Gen. 1 Megatrons....and the animated Megatron robot form was super. I'm not going to buy into him as a villian in this film if they go with the original 'gun-look' because what worked to sell the figure to eager kids like me never worked in illustrated form...even in the cartoon....

Most of the characters 'earth' forms were mobile...cars, planes, something with wheels or wings....but Megatron and Shockwave were always problems because as a gun and casset player they were super toys, but even in the cartoons their non-robot earth forms were lame...

Qui-Long Gone
08-26-2006, 02:10 PM
Note to self: Soundwave was a Transformer....Shockwave was a SWAT trained GI Joe....damn 80s characters....

Tycho
08-26-2006, 03:34 PM
No - you were right before. You did mean Soundwave as the cassette player, yes. But Shockwave was also a character - the purple Cybertronian laser gun.
He'd receive the same criticism you dealt the others though, as your reasoning applies to him. I do agree with you to a large part, but I still have a nostalgic fondness for the G1 forms - Reflector the camera, too.

El Chuxter
08-26-2006, 06:38 PM
Wow. Just wow. Why bother making this movie at all, if it seems a conscious effort to p*** off fans?

BigB, you're totally right about LOTR, Narnia, and Harry Potter. I could add X-Men, Batman Begins, Spider-Man, etc--all very true to the spirit of the originals, if not the details. Most apated movies in the past few years seem to have been rather faithful. This movie seems like an anomaly, from a sadly not quite bygone era, where film versions were expected to be totally different from the source materials.

Boo, Mr Bay. Boo. And not only because your head is so far up your own rectum that YOU FRIGGING LEFT GRIMLOCK OUT OF THE FINAL ROSTER!!!

Rocketboy
08-26-2006, 08:04 PM
Boo, Mr Bay. Boo. And not only because your head is so far up your own rectum that YOU FRIGGING LEFT GRIMLOCK OUT OF THE FINAL ROSTER!!!You say that like it's a bad thing. In my experience, Grimlock is an a-hole.

Tycho
08-26-2006, 08:18 PM
I agree with Rocketboy. Grimlock played like JarJar does in Star Wars.

Furthermore, I understand why in realism terms, Transformers would want to disguise themselves as modern earth vehicles. But there never was any logical reason for the Dinobots - plus you have to think Wheeljack could program more intelligent machines than that with all of his skills.

Yes I remember the episode where they encountered the fossils when they were caved in and they needed heavier artillery to combat Devastator. That was actually a decent plot point. However, its a big one all on its own and wouldn't work for an introductory movie. This movie establishes the Cybertronian War and introduces Prime and Megatron for those with no familiarity to Transformers as well as fans that are supposed to like it. :rolleyes: The Dinobots wound up being fun "Me Grimlock. Me kick butt!" However, just like in the cartoon, they wind up being their own plot point so if Bay ever goes closer to being faithful to the TV series, that could be a future movie's draw.

Rogue II
08-26-2006, 08:23 PM
They could have forced Grimlock as a moster truck that transforms into a T-Rex. Someone's got to battle Scorpinok. It would look like something out of Godzilla.

El Chuxter
08-26-2006, 08:25 PM
Tycho, pick up Titan's reprints of the last 25 issues of the Marvel Comic. Try to track down the (somewhat HTF) trade paperback of Dreamwave's The War Within. Read them thoroughly. If you still believe that Grimlock is like Jar Jar, I'll eat a bug. (An Insecticon, that is.)

Tycho
08-26-2006, 08:35 PM
Well I'm basing this on the old G1 cartoon show:

JarJar - stupid (as in low intelligence)
Grimlock - stupid (as in low intelligence)

Yeah, I know one is more of a coward and the other is a butt-kicker.

JarJar - used for dumb comic relief
Grimlock - used for dumb comic relief

JarJar - attempts were made to make him cute
Grimlock - attempts were made to make him cute

Those are the things I'm looking at. Sure they perform much differently in a fight (though both are clumsy) - but there's more similarities than differences.

Meanwhile, Scorponok has (as of yet) no logical reason for existing either.

JediTricks
08-27-2006, 08:25 PM
I like what Qui-Long Gone suggested: that maybe what we're seeing is their alien-alt modes, pre-earth? That theory is wrong from everything we've heard, it's wishful thinking to suggest otherwise. (clarification, it's accurate for Megs, but he's not taking an Earth mode supposedly, and even if he was, he'd still look like that big mess of a robot which is non-Megs.)


But that doesn't excuse their head sculpts. I don't see why those should be any different?They SHOULDN'T be different head sculpts even if they were Cybertronian alt modes - which they're not.


Oh, the rumor is that Megatron is discovered frozen in the ice from back in earth's ice age or something. He still could be pre-modern earth when he's thawed out and then have himself altered to get around town.He is found frozen in ice in the storyline, I have heard he's discovered about halfway through the movie or later. This alt-mode is a pre-Earth mode, but supposedly he doesn't bother taking a disguise mode for Earth at all.



Still, we're talking about a movie that is almost a year away from being ready. Is the leaked stuff final? Do we have any context for it? There is speculation that the Megatron here is only his Cybertronian mode. Is that accurate? Is that just wishful thinking?Despite claims that Megs is still in-progress, that's not accurate, he's pegged down and only the fine details are still "in progress", the littlest stuff, but that shape we've seen so fair is the final version of Megs, the full-sized frozen prop we have photos of them building, that is identical to that Megs CG picture, it's just missing the upper body, they even hung a large cutout of the exact photo from the CG Megs design at the top of that prop version.

14501


And it's been heavily suggested that Megs won't bother taking a disguise since he shows up late in the movie and gets right to the evil, every other one of those CG character mockup photos has the alt mode we'll be seeing in the movie in the middle, Prime has the truck, Blackout has the chopper, why would Megs' mockup be different when in every other way it's the same? Plus, the Cybertronian robot modes are supposed to be very similar to the Earth robot modes in every incarnation of Autobots and Decepticons to date, and it'd cost a lot to do high-end mockups of the character both before and after when it'd be quicker and cheaper to take the regular design and simply devolve it for a Cybertronian look.

Plus, the toys take around 18 months start to finish and we're 11 months away, too late to go radically changing designs on Hasbro.


We could give them some time to give us a lame *** explanation and then get angry.I've given them plenty of time already since they started showing us this stuff to explain themselves and all they've done is dig a deeper hole and call us idiots for pointing out the hole, they have not earned Transformers fans' respect, they have spit on it over and over in the name of progress and Michael Bay's ego. If we're asked to accept their damage control, they need to at least DO some damage control as soon as possible because at this point it looks like they're showing no respect to the property. They already want us thinking about their project, they just want to control what we're thinking about it.



so they make LOTR TF's now? because that Megatron sure looks a bit like Sauron. i think i've seen some versions of Spawn that look like this Wrecktal torture device, as JT put it.That's a good point, it does look like a take on Sauron! Be fair to Spawn though... at least he has a little color besides just gray. :p



Making a good Megatron is going to be a major problem... because his Gun form is just plain silly, although for commercial purposes (the original intent of the Transformers), it worked as one of the coolest Transformer figures produced....I'm proud to still have Two Gen. 1 Megatrons....and the animated Megatron robot form was super. I'm not going to buy into him as a villian in this film if they go with the original 'gun-look' because what worked to sell the figure to eager kids like me never worked in illustrated form...even in the cartoon....This movie is hardly the first to deal with that, G2 Megs and Armada Megs were tanks, Energon Megs was a space fighter jet thing, Megatron is often a "living weapon" without resorting to mass-shifting into a handgun. This movie mess doesn't look like a living weapon, he looks like a pointy, claw-bearing mess made of a ton of little needless pieces.



BigB, you're totally right about LOTR, Narnia, and Harry Potter. I could add X-Men, Batman Begins, Spider-Man, etc--all very true to the spirit of the originals, if not the details. Most apated movies in the past few years seem to have been rather faithful. This movie seems like an anomaly, from a sadly not quite bygone era, where film versions were expected to be totally different from the source materials.This movie seems to be more of 1998's Godzilla, or 1993's Super Mario Bros., no respect for the essence of what it's remaking because those producing the project feel they know better. My mom, when I showed her these photos, pointed out another project that doesn't have the flavor of what it's sourcing, this year's Miami Vice, which led me to last year's Duke's of Hazzard - though at least MV had the show's creator to blame for its failings, the same cannot be said for ANY of the others mentioned.

figrin bran
08-27-2006, 10:39 PM
This movie mess doesn't look like a living weapon, he looks like a pointy, claw-bearing mess made of a ton of little needless pieces.



claw bearing is right - he's got the One Ring of Power! :p

Phantom-like Menace
08-27-2006, 11:01 PM
Keep in mind I think this movie will suck beyond the power of any simple excuses, so there is a lot of devil's advocacy going on here.


Despite claims that Megs is still in-progress, that's not accurate, he's pegged down and only the fine details are still "in progress", the littlest stuff, but that shape we've seen so fair is the final version of Megs, the full-sized frozen prop we have photos of them building, that is identical to that Megs CG picture, it's just missing the upper body, they even hung a large cutout of the exact photo from the CG Megs design at the top of that prop version.

And it's been heavily suggested that Megs won't bother taking a disguise since he shows up late in the movie and gets right to the evil,

Then we have story context for why Megatron looks like an alien creation. It is his Cybertronian mode. We know absolutely they're planning future movies. If Megatron doesn't have an alternate mode by the next movie or the very end of this one, I'd be highly surprised. So we have perfectly reasonable story context for why Megatron doesn't look like anything found on Earth, and they've actually come up with a novel idea in introducing Megatron near the end. Is our big problem really that we wanted Megatron introduced right at the beginning with an alternate mode immediately? He's in it, most likely voiced by Welker, evil, and doubtless aiming toward an eventual Earth mode.


I've given them plenty of time already since they started showing us this stuff to explain themselves and all they've done is dig a deeper hole and call us idiots for pointing out the hole, they have not earned Transformers fans' respect, they have spit on it over and over in the name of progress and Michael Bay's ego. If we're asked to accept their damage control, they need to at least DO some damage control as soon as possible because at this point it looks like they're showing no respect to the property. They already want us thinking about their project, they just want to control what we're thinking about it.

Of course they want to control what we think about it. That's the end all and be all of advertising.

Just a hypothetical question: How much of the movie do you want them to give away to abate our fears? Just as a painfully simple example, let's say at the end of the movie it appears alien bug Megatron is completly destroyed. Maybe it looks like Starscream is going to get his way and become leader of the Decepticons. Of course we believe it. Batman killed Joker in Burton's first movie. Why not kill Megatron and put Starscream in place? They've already incensed us with bug Megatron, so we'll believe they'll do anything. At the last minute, though, some kind of military vehicle pulls up. It transforms and Starscream or some other Decepticon identifies it as Megatron, alive, disguised, more than meets the eye, and ready to surprise the Autobots.

So let's say our cries of outrage are so great they release the above information. Are we happy that they have given Megatron an Earth mode, or are we annoyed that the ending has been ruined? They wouldn't have needed to release that information if some wag hadn't leaked bug Megatron's picture and ****ed everyone off. So, now they've done our requested damage control, but maybe we might have waited and enjoyed the ending a little more. It seems we would have been better off if they were able to control what information we knew and what we didn't know.

So, I can accept us complaining greatly about all of the stuff they have intentionally released that has been confirmed and put in context. I can also accept complaining about their inability to keep things under wraps. I've even mentioned that I'm not too fond of their attitude, not that we've been the least hostile players in the drama. But I see little reason for them to soothe our indignant disappointment with stuff they had no intention of letting us see. I could also blame us for looking at it. They certainly didn't ask us to do so.

El Chuxter
08-27-2006, 11:19 PM
At the Hasbro website on June 11 they announced a live action Transformers film will be made. Bryan Singer is directing (X-Men/X-2) I think he will do a great job.

I found that while looking for another old post just now. Man, wouldn't it be really, really nice if that were indeed the case?

darthvyn
08-28-2006, 11:35 AM
If you still believe that Grimlock is like Jar Jar, I'll eat a bug. (An Insecticon, that is.)

(for the purposes of this offer, the bug will be played by a ham sandwich.)

so we have optimus and bumblebee in the wrong vehicles. okay, i can deal with that. they both look like bionicles... eh, i can sort of deal with that... but then we get this big metal turd crapatron... the line is drawn here, no farther! (read that with jean luc picard's angry voice from "first contact")

if it weren't enough that we have fans being talked down to like a bunch of little *****es, now we have lord saurtron... what blind orangutan to they have designing these things??? i doubt i'll be going to this movie.

El Chuxter
08-28-2006, 12:16 PM
(for the purposes of this offer, the bug will be played by a ham sandwich.)

Nice ref. :beard: Baby Chux had other plans for how I'd be spending my free time for the next few weeks, so I may have to hold off on any eating of bugs ham sandwiches.

The more I look at that Megatron, the more I wonder "Why?" Why would such a creature even transform at all? Seriously. There is absolutely no reason for it. It makes less sense than Chewbacca.

Tycho, in the comics (and Tech Specs, too), Grimlock was far from an idiot. Sure, he was rash, had a foul temper, and talked funny, but he was a cunning and ruthless military leader. When Prime unexpectedly died (in a most ridiculous manner), Grimlock took control of the Autobots (despite many protests). Later, after Prime died again in battle with Unicron, his final act was to appoint Grimlock as Autobot Commander.

Of course, his somewhat short-sighted arrogance and tendency to view all the Autobots as foot soldiers regardless of their abilities nearly led to their downfall on Klo, before a resurrected (again) Prime showed up with The Last Autobot and helped Grimlock and the Autobot survivors whoop all the 'Cons. (And then The Last Autobot resurrected Bumblebee and Hot Rod! Yay!!)

Tycho
08-28-2006, 12:28 PM
Hmmm. Interesting. I thought jokingly of a new Transformer: Jesus Chevorlet ; ) and the Last Sparkplug.

JediTricks
08-28-2006, 12:59 PM
Confirmation on details: http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6433&mode=flat

Jazz is a hardtop Pontiac Solstice
Ironhide is "a large GMC 4X4 truck with enormous exhausts with the classic Autobot logo stamped on the tailgate"
Ratchet is a rescue Humvee
Jazz : 13 feet tall
Bumblebee: 17 feet tall
Ratchet: 24 feet tall
Ironhide: 26 feet tall
Optimus Prime: 28 feet tall
Megatron: 34 feet tall Let's look at this, Ironhide is a 4x4 but is only 2 feet shorter than Prime who is a longnose conventional semi, how can that be? Something is very wrong with that. Megs is 6 feet taller than Prime, that should be... interesting. Bumblebee is 4 feet taller than Jazz, that is pretty lame, and why is Bumblebee taller? Because the Camaro is bigger than the Solstice - this gives us a real pattern of thinking, why would Jazz be a Solstice when the Solstice (while nifty) is a small roadster sports car more akin to the Mazda Miata than a larger Porsche sports car? Let's look at the other Autobots to examine a trend...

Jazz: Pontiac Solstice; Ratchet: rescue Humvee; Ironhide: GMC pickup truck; Bumblebee: Chevy Camaro

What do these 4 altmodes have in common? Cheverolet, GMC, Humvee, Pontiac - they're all General Motors brands, and the Solstice is the only rounded sports car GM currently offers in the US (the Camaro has been out of production for half a decade and won't be offered again until '09). This is exactly the type of sleazy product placement garbage deal Michael Bay and the Hollywood studio system lives for, all the "hero" cars are 1 brand and the villains are other brands (such as the Decepticon Mustang cop car in this movie, from GM-rival Ford/Saleen) who probably didn't offer as much money as Bay was asking for, so the reason Jazz is 13' tall is because Michael Bay took GM's money in exchange for product placement and GM doesn't have a full-sized sports car for Jazz to become.

(I intentionally left Optimus out since GM no longer has their own semi tractor brand, having sold their GMC tractor brand to White who was bought by Volvo who is partly owned by Ford. Optimus appears to be a Kenworth.)




Just a hypothetical question: How much of the movie do you want them to give away to abate our fears? Just as a painfully simple example, let's say at the end of the movie it appears alien bug Megatron is completly destroyed. Maybe it looks like Starscream is going to get his way and become leader of the Decepticons. Of course we believe it. Batman killed Joker in Burton's first movie. Why not kill Megatron and put Starscream in place? They've already incensed us with bug Megatron, so we'll believe they'll do anything. At the last minute, though, some kind of military vehicle pulls up. It transforms and Starscream or some other Decepticon identifies it as Megatron, alive, disguised, more than meets the eye, and ready to surprise the Autobots.

So let's say our cries of outrage are so great they release the above information. Are we happy that they have given Megatron an Earth mode, or are we annoyed that the ending has been ruined? They wouldn't have needed to release that information if some wag hadn't leaked bug Megatron's picture and ****ed everyone off. So, now they've done our requested damage control, but maybe we might have waited and enjoyed the ending a little more. It seems we would have been better off if they were able to control what information we knew and what we didn't know.I am not asking for the end of the story, we already know the plot is crappy thanks to Bay making this a disaster movie - "Earthquake Airport Towering Inferno Poseidon Andromeda Strain Avalanche" that's what this plot is to Bay - how about some meat to the story instead? Oh wait, that appears to be impossible as it's another anemic Bay script - too bad. And what has us most in an uproar right now are these horrific bot designs, how about being straightforward with us on that? They put out a teaser trailer a year in advance so they know people want it, but the only transforming there was the title card and that giant Bionicle bot didn't remind anybody of anything. They have to know if Megs had an Earth disguise mode, it'd get leaked by Hasbro when the toy photos came out months before the movie anyway, so it's in their best interest to get this out of the way - but they can't because the plot likely doesn't have an Earth mode in it, Megs is a rampaging monster not a robot in disguise. They have a turd on their hands and are trying to get us to think it's platinum, if the concern over leaking the ending spoiler to us is a big deal, it won't matter at this point because nobody is going to make it to the end thinking about the story (what little there is), they'll be too preoccupied by the other annoying crap.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
08-28-2006, 02:49 PM
I saw this posted on one of my LJ entertainment communities. It could be a rehash of stuff you already know, but still...It might contain some SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS, SO read at own risk..


•The film will offer background about the origin of the war between the Autobots and Decepticons. The plot will be set in motion when 18-year-old Sam Witwicky (Shia LaBeouf) discovers his grandfather's pair of century-old glasses, improbably laser-etched with a map and information about the location of a key artifact, the "Energon" cube, which he then tries to sell on eBay. The movie will follow five separate storylines, which will all converge with a final battle between the Autobots and Decepticons, starting at Hoover Dam and ending in an American city that looks a lot like Los Angeles.

•The film is seeking permission to be the first production to film the exterior of the Pentagon since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001; the movie will also shoot in various cities, including L.A., Chicago, Detroit and Washington.

•The film will feature a top-secret military unit called Sector 7.

•Voice casting of the Transformer robots is being left until later in the production, except for Peter Cullen, who was previously named to reprise his role as Optimus Prime. In particular, producers wouldn't say whether Frank Welker, who voiced Megatron in the 1986 animated Transformers film, would voice the character in the movie.

•The movie will use a mix of computer animation and large-scale puppetry to depict the giant robots. Megatron will appear as a plane, not a giant gun, as he did in early versions of the franchise.

•The film's first full trailer will appear sometime during the holiday season this year.

Overall, director Bay told SCI FI Wire that the movie strives for realism, despite its cartoony origins. "I only wanted to do Transformers if I could do it realistic," Bay said in an interview. "And from what I've seen and what we've done with our digital studies, putting it in real-world stuff, that is lots of effects around that are real effects, that's how we make it realistic." When Bay got the first call from producer Steven Spielberg, he said, "My first thought was, 'Nah, I'm not interested.' And just because I thought, 'OK, how am I going to do a toy movie?' And then I realized, when I went to Hasbro, 'OK, start over and go for [a] realistic alien-invasion-robot movie on Earth.' And so, with that thinking in mind, that's how I went about it."

On a hot Saturday, Bay and his crew shot a scene on a blocked-off street in the heart of downtown L.A. The scene featured the four Autobots, accompanied by military crews led by co-stars Tyrese Gibson and Josh Duhamel, and young stars LaBeouf and Megan Fox, who plays Mikaela, LaBeouf's love interest. In the scene, the commandoes see what they believe to be Air Force jets flying overhead, then realize that the coming flying machines are something else—Decepticons in disguise?—and throw smoke grenades to obscure their positions as dozens of civilians run screaming around them. Ironhide, the black truck in the lead of the column of Autobots, appears to collide with a delivery truck carrying Furbys (the talking furry animal toys that are also made by Transformers maker Hasbro). The truck is on a gimbal, which allows it to swing up and stand perpendicular to the street, as if knocked on its end. The idea is that the Furbys will be knocked from the truck, in flames, then activate when the Energon cube flies overhead. "We just wanted to have burning Furbys on the ground, you know?" Bay said with a laugh. "We're going to be blowing up a lot of little Furbys." Transformers is currently in production, with an eye to a July 4, 2007, release. —Patrick Lee, News Editor


Geek argument, commence! :crazed:

Kidhuman
08-28-2006, 02:59 PM
The only thing I like is the burning Furby's.

Tycho
08-28-2006, 03:56 PM
Geek argument, commence! :crazed:

I can just see some sort of sappy scene where Ironhide tries to "save the Furbies!"

Meanwhile, they will use Starscream napalm bombing Furbies to establish the Decepticon Air Commander as truly evil! :rolleyes:

Where does that leave me? I still think Michael Bay should be put to death by stoning him with Furbies! :whip:

Droid
08-28-2006, 04:39 PM
"his grandfather's pair of century-old glasses"? :rolleyes:

Oh, Bones, this is... charming.

Phantom-like Menace
08-28-2006, 04:44 PM
Jazz : 13 feet tall
Bumblebee: 17 feet tallBumblebee is 4 feet taller than Jazz, that is pretty lame

I think I'm going to cry a little. . . . Yep, I just cried a little.

Thanks for the breakdown on the brands of vehicles Autobots and Decepticons transform into. That was informative if annoying (on their part, not yours). I'm vaguely curious why Jazz can't be a Porsche, because Porsches are "so eighties," but Bumblebee can be an almost thirty-year-old model of Camaro.

Crap, I just looked up the Solstice on Wikipedia. If they didn't want a Porsche, why would they go with what looks like a poor man's Porsche Boxster? Except, of course, product placement.


I am not asking for the end of the story, we already know the plot is crappy thanks to Bay making this a disaster movie - "Earthquake Airport Towering Inferno Poseidon Andromeda Strain Avalanche" that's what this plot is to Bay - how about some meat to the story instead? Oh wait, that appears to be impossible as it's another anemic Bay script - too bad.

Oh, no, if we're forming a lynch mob to go after Bay for replacing plot with explosion, deputize me for the posse. Saddle up and all that. I still want to get my licks in for Pearl Harbor. I've already said I started giving up on this movie the moment he came on board. I was psyched when it was first taken by Dreamworks. Spielberg may not be one of my favorite directors, but when he's on, he's on.


And what has us most in an uproar right now are these horrific bot designs, how about being straightforward with us on that? They put out a teaser trailer a year in advance so they know people want it, but the only transforming there was the title card and that giant Bionicle bot didn't remind anybody of anything.

I already admitted their Cybertronian form could have a fedora, facial scar and be carrying a Tommy Gun, so I'm just not too upset. I actually like the idea that a completely alien vehicle/robot would look completely alien. A significant complaint about Sci-Fi is that all of the aliens look like us. It makes sense to me that Cybertronian modes would look strange.


They have to know if Megs had an Earth disguise mode, it'd get leaked by Hasbro when the toy photos came out months before the movie anyway, so it's in their best interest to get this out of the way - but they can't because the plot likely doesn't have an Earth mode in it, Megs is a rampaging monster not a robot in disguise.

I'd put money on their not having an Earth mode until the second movie. But we know they have to be aiming for one. Teletraan I just didn't have a chance to get to Megatron yet.


They have a turd on their hands and are trying to get us to think it's platinum, if the concern over leaking the ending spoiler to us is a big deal, it won't matter at this point because nobody is going to make it to the end thinking about the story (what little there is), they'll be too preoccupied by the other annoying crap.

I wouldn't count on their protecting any spoiler. I imagine any plot twist or spoiler will have been replaced by an explosion. I'm just saying we more or less do what Murphy said. We stick our fingers in our ears, sing, "La, la, la, I can't hear you," and see how everything looks in a few months. Then we sharpen the pitchforks. Or they can be dull, depending on your preference for violence.

darthvyn
08-28-2006, 08:23 PM
and GM doesn't have a full-sized sports car for Jazz to become.

except for the corvette, the original sports car... but, of course, they've already made multiple toys out of the corvette, so it has some ties to real transformers, something they're obviously avoiding, so there you go... solistice.


"Earthquake Airport Towering Inferno Poseidon Andromeda Strain Avalanche"

you forgot the day after tomorrow's armaggedon twister lavaflow.

figrin bran
08-28-2006, 11:30 PM
so who is going to collect those furbys in transformers packaging?

DarkArtist
08-29-2006, 08:08 PM
so lookinf forwars to this movie, can't wait

JediTricks
08-30-2006, 04:07 PM
First... Bumblebee's face:
14514

Whaaaaa???!!!???



Keep in mind I think this movie will suck beyond the power of any simple excuses, so there is a lot of devil's advocacy going on here.Well, Michael Bay does seem to be the devil. :p But I would think rich studios could afford their own advocates. ;)


Then we have story context for why Megatron looks like an alien creation. It ishis Cybertronian mode. We know absolutely they're planning future movies. If Megatron doesn't have an alternate mode by the next movie or the very end of this one, I'd be highly surprised. So we have perfectly reasonable story context for why Megatron doesn't look like anything found on Earth, and they've actually come up with a novel idea in introducing Megatron near the end. Is our big problem really that we wanted Megatron introduced right at the beginning with an alternate mode immediately? He's in it, most likely voiced by Welker, evil, and doubtless aiming toward an eventual Earth mode.First off, something I haven't mentioned before, I think Welker's Megatron was not that great, he never really brought the authority and intelligence to the character that would have befitted the character.

Secondly, Cybertronian bots don't change all that much from Earth bots, so this IS our Megatron character even if he gets an Earth alt mode in a sequel. My problem is mostly that he looks like utter crap for a Transformer who is supposed to be Megatron (though I think it totally sucks that Megs isn't in the film until late in the game, but that's a plot issue, not this design issue).


Of course they want to control what we think about it. That's the end all and be all of advertising.That is a current groupthink belief on the matter, but it's not actually true, the advertising for Star Wars (the original) was actually pretty bad yet it became the #1 movie of all time, meanwhile 1998 US Godzilla's advertising was an unstoppable juggernaut yet the movie tanked.


But I see little reason for them to soothe our indignant disappointment with stuff they had no intention of letting us see. I could also blame us for looking at it. They certainly didn't ask us to do so.The reason is because the leaks are proving the failure of the project, and if they want to regain audiences respect they need to do so now before negative word of mouth buries the project permanently, just because they didn't want us to see the disaster they're unleashing on us doesn't mean we shouldn't know, US Godzilla was the same thing - they tried to hide their shameful abuse of the designs as long as they could, doesn't mean we have to accept that. They've got poop on their hands, the more they do nothing the more the stink will set in.


if it weren't enough that we have fans being talked down to like a bunch of little *****esYeah, I am sick and tired of everybody on this project treating interested fans like they're some sort of diseased moron zombies.


The film will offer background about the origin of the war between the Autobots and Decepticons. The plot will be set in motion when 18-year-old Sam Witwicky (Shia LaBeouf) discovers his grandfather's pair of century-old glasses, improbably laser-etched with a map and information about the location of a key artifact, the "Energon" cube, which he then tries to sell on eBay. The movie will follow five separate storylines, which will all converge with a final battle between the Autobots and Decepticons, starting at Hoover Dam and ending in an American city that looks a lot like Los Angeles.Isn't that an old detail that came out of a script they have since rewritten heavily?


When Bay got the first call from producer Steven Spielberg, he said, "My first thought was, 'Nah, I'm not interested.' And just because I thought, 'OK, how am I going to do a toy movie?' And then I realized, when I went to Hasbro, 'OK, start over and go for [a] realistic alien-invasion-robot movie on Earth.' And so, with that thinking in mind, that's how I went about it."Why oh why did he not listen to his first reaction?!? No! Bad Bay! Don't take this project! Fool! Look at what he's saying, he's admitting right there he's got what he thinks is a "better idea" than what the Transformers already are.


"his grandfather's pair of century-old glasses"? :rolleyes:

Oh, Bones, this is... charming.Niiiiiice!!! And the beauty part is, Kirk will get 'em again. :p


I think I'm going to cry a little. . . . Yep, I just cried a little.the Devil's advocate just objected to his own client? ;)


I'm vaguely curious why Jazz can't be a Porsche, because Porsches are "so eighties," but Bumblebee can be an almost thirty-year-old model of Camaro.Bay is all about licensing and product placement, Porsche and all the German (and Italian) car companies don't want their products associated with violence or toys or violent toys.


Crap, I just looked up the Solstice on Wikipedia. If they didn't want a Porsche, why would they go with what looks like a poor man's Porsche Boxster? Except, of course, product placement.As I said before, it's the only sporty car GM has. Actually, the Solstice is nice in its own rite, but their gray hardtop version isn't exactly doing it for me:
http://latinoreview.com/filmpreview_image.php?id=7277


I was psyched when it was first taken by Dreamworks. Spielberg may not be one of my favorite directors, but when he's on, he's on.Spielberg as an executive producer is pretty "meh", he signs onto a lot of projects since the late '80s that he really doesn't put any face time into.


I'm just saying we more or less do what Murphy said. We stick our fingers in our ears, sing, "La, la, la, I can't hear you," and see how everything looks in a few months. Then we sharpen the pitchforks. Or they can be dull, depending on your preference for violence.To me, that is essentially sticking one's head in the sand, pretending the world doesn't really still exist as long as you can't see it, and maybe it's somehow getting better the longer you don't look. If Murph and Bay hadn't invited a dozen different media outlets to the production over and over intending for us to see this stuff, it'd be a different issue, but they've put it out there, whetted audience appetites for production news and now that the audience is taking it and judging for themselves the producers don't want them to.


except for the corvette, the original sports car... but, of course, they've already made multiple toys out of the corvette, so it has some ties to real transformers, something they're obviously avoiding, so there you go... solistice.Yeah, I remembered that about 10 minutes after I posted, but it was my birthday and I was already busy by then. Obviously a Cheverolet Corvette won't do for Jazz though as the Corvette is heavily-identified with another prominent TF character: Tracks (there's even a Chevy-licensed Alternators figure).


you forgot the day after tomorrow's armaggedon twister lavaflow.I was going for "classic" since more folks have actualy seen them. :p Armaggedon is a good choice as it's Bay's film.


Tycho, here's a TF link for ya: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8688577315402891785&q=label%3Atransformers

Tycho
08-30-2006, 04:47 PM
JediTricks: thank you. I cried when I watched that. Right there is exactly what the Transformers are all about for me. My absolute favorite scene is when Optimus Prime transforms and runs through all those Decepticons, Thrust's reflection shown in his grill plate right before Prime mows him down, then he flies into the air on rockets, transforming back to 'bot mode and gunning down every Decepticon in his way until he gets at Megatron! This is actually one of the most glorious and heroic scenes in ANY movie ever done!

$%#! Hot Rod for getting in the way of the perfect attack that would have ended the whole Cybertronian War right then and there! (maybe)

Meanwhile, my first thought since seeing the picture of the new BumbleBee you posted was "C-3PO's in this movie?" The best redemption for this folly would be for the Transformers to also adapt more human faces if they are going to interact with humans while on earth. That's not the BumbleBee I grew up with. Heck, most of these "aliens" are not. Michael Bay can "drink turpentine and p!$$ on a brushfire." And you know, I liked some of his past movies (Pearl Harbor, possibly others). But unless he totally surprises me when I see this movie, I think he is really, really, really the wrong guy to make this movie.

So how much control does the Director have? Does he approve all the designs for the characters? Does Hasbro have a say? They are ruining Hasbro's property, unless Rhode Island is hoping we buy all new toy designs relating to this folly (sorry - I'll stick with MPE's and Alternators ONLY! - though I'll have to see if some really good deluxe figures of "Blackout" or whatever the helicopter's name will be comes out of this fiasco). But I can't tell you how badly I am concerned with what I am seeing.

El Chuxter
08-30-2006, 08:46 PM
Man, that Bumblebee is disappointing. That's not even the "battle mask" face from the original figure. :(

Phantom-like Menace
08-31-2006, 05:12 AM
That is a current groupthink belief on the matter, but it's not actually true, the advertising for Star Wars (the original) was actually pretty bad yet it became the #1 movie of all time, meanwhile 1998 US Godzilla's advertising was an unstoppable juggernaut yet the movie tanked.

Well, sure there are exceptions, but by and large the average person is a herd animal. The proper advertisement can and will draw them to the largest group of like individuals they can find. Plus, I think the two above examples preach quality more than quantity. Two seconds of Star Wars can be far more interesting than any amount of Godzilla 2000. I'm not speaking to the power of advertising as much as the power of the herding instinct.


the Devil's advocate just objected to his own client? ;)

You just can't give Lucifer entirely free reign. Sometimes he does have to be curbed.


Bay is all about licensing and product placement, Porsche and all the German (and Italian) car companies don't want their products associated with violence or toys or violent toys.

Does that mean if we threaten violence against them they will have to chose the lesser of two evils: promote violence by allowing Jazz to turn into a Porsche or promote violence by getting their rears kicked up between their ears?


Spielberg as an executive producer is pretty "meh", he signs onto a lot of projects since the late '80s that he really doesn't put any face time into.

Yeah, but I was kind of hoping he would direct. Spielberg can "lower himself" to the mindless action that we will need some of in this movie while keeping emotion, drama and plot (that we will need some of in this movie) better than Bay can raise himself to loftier goals than making things "blow up real good."

Kidhuman
08-31-2006, 05:29 AM
Man, that Bumblebee is disappointing. That's not even the "battle mask" face from the original figure. :(


*shrug* &

Droid
08-31-2006, 03:43 PM
Transformers: the Movie sucked. Ripped apart everything about Transformers up to that point. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Kidhuman
08-31-2006, 06:32 PM
Transformers: the Movie sucked. Ripped apart everything about Transformers up to that point. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Dude thats blaspemy&

Tycho
08-31-2006, 08:04 PM
The main problem with the 1985 or '86 Transformers Movie (cartoon one) was that they killed off all the main characters to make room for the ones based on the new toys, so essentially it was one giant toy-marketing blitzkrieg.

The historic pattern was that no Transformer ever died on the after-school cartoon show, but now they were being killed en-masse in the movie to make room for Hasbro's latest product shipment.

Galvatron replaced Megatron
Rodimus Prime replaced Optimus
Cyclonus - Starscream
Kup - Ironhide
Ultra Magnus - Jazz
and so-on like that.

What should have been done is that cool characters could have been developed in the cartoon, and killed off all along instead of having a billion laser blasts every afternoon at 4pm and no one dying until $5.50 or more was paid at the movie theater and Hasbro had a bunch of new toys to market.

The other thing was that Optimus Prime was the star of Transformers, no question there. It might have been major if he were killed and Rodimus Prime took his place, but Rodimus was an idiot, and he was born out of Hot Rod, who might've been styling, but was also an idiot.

Meanwhile, Megatron had been cold and calculating, but Galvatron was insane. The whole change in leadership was not an improvement to the cast, and furthermore was all too convenient that both sides would change leaders in the same movie (though not impossible - it was done well, though Rodimus need not have been an idiot, nor Transform into a flaming Winnebego :rolleyes:

Ultra Magnus was Prime's intended successor, and he would have made an awesome one at that, though his toy was pretty weak in that it required separable parts added to basically a repainted G1 Optimus. That rendered him hardly poseable, too. They should have figured out a better way to design a transforming car carrier and Magnus might've been alright. The plot twist in there being that the Matrix was intended for someone else was a good idea though - just Rodimus never grew into the role and those Autobots that had known him as Hot Rod, just didn't respect him. Had the show lasted longer with Rodimus as the Autobot leader, he might've risen to the occasion, so I can't say where it was going. But as it stands, and with what was shown, he just didn't make the cut.

If the producers and writers didn't know this, they wouldn't have tried to resurrect Optimus in the same post-movie shows. No: Optimus Prime was THE star of Transformers and everyone knows it.

JediTricks
08-31-2006, 10:01 PM
I figured you'd dig that video Tycho, you cite "The Touch" plenty... I didn't expect you to cry though.


Meanwhile, my first thought since seeing the picture of the new BumbleBee you posted was "C-3PO's in this movie?" Heh heh, yeah, it's like 3PO had a baby with Johnny Five from "Short Circuit". :p


So how much control does the Director have? Does he approve all the designs for the characters? Does Hasbro have a say? They are ruining Hasbro's property, unless Rhode Island is hoping we buy all new toy designs relating to this folly (sorry - I'll stick with MPE's and Alternators ONLY! - though I'll have to see if some really good deluxe figures of "Blackout" or whatever the helicopter's name will be comes out of this fiasco). But I can't tell you how badly I am concerned with what I am seeing.I feel the same way, very concerned. I believe Bay carries a lot of control on this project, he's a powerful director and has a very powerful executive producer backing his moves, lesser directors might not get as much control as this but one of the things Bay talks about is how he'd only take the project if he could make it his own. I believe Hasbro has some say but are staying mute and I don't know why.



Man, that Bumblebee is disappointing. That's not even the "battle mask" face from the original figure. :(Yeah, I don't get it, why change everything about the character but keep his name? There are tons of other character names they could have mined too, but here the only similarity will be his yellow color, everything else head to toe (including being the smallest Autobot) is out the window.



Well, sure there are exceptions, but by and large the average person is a herd animal. The proper advertisement can and will draw them to the largest group of like individuals they can find. Plus, I think the two above examples preach quality more than quantity. Two seconds of Star Wars can be far more interesting than any amount of Godzilla 2000. I'm not speaking to the power of advertising as much as the power of the herding instinct.I think that's the shortcut answer that advertising looks at today, essentially that people are stupid so treat them like suckers, it's the type of thinking that puts pro-wrestling on the Sci-Fi Channel. But often the best advertising is the one that knows the customer well enough to make the customer do the real thinking - it's not used generally because lowest common denominator advertising is massively cheaper, it's easier to give 100 people a mcdonalds hamburger than 10 people a filet mignon.


You just can't give Lucifer entirely free reign. Sometimes he does have to be curbed.I'd say "replace 'Lucifer' with 'Michael Bay'" but that'd be redundant. :p


Does that mean if we threaten violence against them they will have to chose the lesser of two evils: promote violence by allowing Jazz to turn into a Porsche or promote violence by getting their rears kicked up between their ears?The latter is not promoting violence, it's receiving violence.


Yeah, but I was kind of hoping he would direct. Spielberg can "lower himself" to the mindless action that we will need some of in this movie while keeping emotion, drama and plot (that we will need some of in this movie) better than Bay can raise himself to loftier goals than making things "blow up real good."His movies 1941 and Hook were entertaining but lacked that extra Spielbergian magic, I don't think he can do these types of broad-strokes films without watering down what makes his directing special, he's a fairly intimate director and keeps it pretty human, such as with Jurassic Park where it's all about the human characters experiencing the events rather than the actual events and the larger-than-life beings creating them.


So, here's a look at Prime complete: http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6453&mode=flat

Personally, I still don't like it, this idea of "naked bots" comes off very Bionicle and doesn't make a lick of sense when you think about it - sure, it's kinda like an organic being's muscles and tendons and veins, but we have SKIN to protect that stuff, those hydrolic rams and pistons are small and intricate parts are more easily broken and interrupted, you throw a wrench into that chest and his shoulder is going to tear itself apart. To me, it feels like they're trying too hard to be "alien" and "realistic" when those 2 ideals really don't go together, realism is what we already know and can believe in, alien is what we don't know of yet. But I know this is the most positive-looking design in the series so it'll probably hook the general audience.

Phantom-like Menace
08-31-2006, 10:35 PM
The latter is not promoting violence, it's receiving violence.

Nah, semantics. If you say "peace, love, and understanding" and it makes me declare war on someone, you've still promoted war.:razz:

Tycho
08-31-2006, 11:24 PM
I don't know. I like that picture of Optimus Prime a bit (not as much as I'd like the traditional G1, but I can still see Prime that I know and love in that).

JediTricks is right: all an enemy has to do is foul up any small bit of the hydraulics or whatever innards are showing there, and a Transformer is toast. My guess is that either the smallest spring or oil lube cable is actually made out of bullet-proof Cybertronian alloys, or they are so quick and fast in battle, it's hard to score a hit on them. Possibly both.

So for me:

Thumbs up: Optimus Prime (that's a very generous offer btw)
Blackout (from toy and movie images, though the 2 look nothing alike)**

Thumbs down:
BumbleBee
Megatron
Starscream - from what we've seen of the toy prototype
Scorponok - I don't even think this is a Transformer

Still to see the robot for:

Ironhide
Barricade
Ratchet
Jazz
Frenzy
Brawl
I forgot one Decepticon

figrin bran
09-01-2006, 01:02 AM
meh, i don't really like that design for optimus as there's too much going on. exposed wiring might be okay for astromechs but not TF's. it just isn't very functional for the reasons that JT spelled out. as for that megatron alien craft, it doesn't look any bit sleek or aerodynamic so what's the point of having it look like that?

El Chuxter
09-01-2006, 01:41 AM
Okay, the original movie really blew it in the respect that it killed off characters to clear the shelves for new toys, and tossed the "robots turn into realistic Earth vehicles" out the window. But forgive that for a moment. It's a damned good movie to be a 2-hour commercial. The animation alone is worth watching a few dozen times, and anyone who doesn't think the sequence of Prime running down the 'Cons to the tune of "The Touch" is one of the greatest action sequences ever, and one of the best uses of a song in a film, should be drug out into the street and shot. Preferably with Michael Bay.

Rogue II
09-01-2006, 10:50 AM
...Even though "The Touch" is a prime example of 80s cheese rock&

Kidhuman
09-01-2006, 12:30 PM
It is such a bad song, Marky Mark sang it in Boogie Nights&

Imperial Monarche
09-01-2006, 04:01 PM
If only Michael Bay would stick to what was promised, adaptation of the G1 characters, then he would be the right man for the job. He's perfect slam-bam summer movies, which is what a Transformers movie should be. The problem is, just because they have G1 characters in the movie, doesn't make it a true adaptation. Just about every Transformers line has had the main, core caharacters, they just change up the design. All the movie will be is just another take on the original G1 characters, but the movie will NEVER be considered G1 unless they stay true to original designs. I mean, the pics released so far don't even look like robots for goodness sake. Well, at least not Transformers.

My only hope is that Bay is doing some kind of weird bait-and-switch marketing tactic like he's letting a whole bunch of wrong designs out and really working on true to G1 likenesses. Well, those are just wishes.

mabudonicus
09-03-2006, 08:43 AM
Nothing realy to add here, just wanted to re-iterate how CRAPPY "Bumblebee"s F-ing face looks my goodness it took me this long just to be able to recover enough to even consider posting...
Methinks it's time to break out the photoshop and see if I can't make a few "concept T-formers" pics of mine own :beard:&

JediTricks
09-03-2006, 01:27 PM
I came across this recently:

Roland Emmerich admitted that he did not like the original Godzilla movies - he only agreed to the project after being promised to be able to do what ever he wanted with the series.That of the 1998 American Godzilla movie, which is considered an abomination. Its action-movie director took a beloved childhood favorite and completely remade it in his own image, disrespecting the essence of the franchise he was given with shoddy writing and his own hubris under the guise of "realism" which he felt was possible via overuse of CGI, and he chose to focus the film not on its title character but instead on the humans underfoot; the first trailer for the project was shown a year in advance of the release date; the producers tried to hide the title character even as the movie was released, but leaked images showed the true folly of the title character, and the project ultimately ended in a humiliating failure of an effort derided by hardcore fans and casual moviegoers alike. Hmm... now why does this sound familiar?


BTW, The Transformers movie's writers have the following credits under their belts:
Cosby (Bill Cosby's post-"The Cosby Show" sitcom)
Jackie Chan Adventures (a cartoon, the story writer for TF movie created it)
The Core
Catwoman
Hercules (the '90s Kevin Sorbo TV series)
Xena (its spin-off)
Jack of all Trades (a short-lived Bruce Campbell series produced by the Hercules team)
Alias
Michael Bay's The Island
The Legend of Zorro (the grossly unpopular sequel to "The Mask of Zorro")
Mission Impossible 3

Yeah, that's an encouraging combined resume. :rolleyes:

JediTricks
09-05-2006, 07:54 PM
Clear shots of Optimus Prime:
http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6466&mode=flat

OH THE HUMANITY!!! This looks so much worse than previous shots it's appalling, the head alone makes me want to weep. And the body is pure kibble, little pieces everywhere. It still has a little unfortunate Bionicle, but now especially with the back shot, it looks like someone took a crazy messy junk pile, magnetized it, then hung it from a wall! I just HATE what I'm seeing! Make it stop!!!



Also, a couple loose Bumblebee photos (nothing special, but you may wanna see):
http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6469&mode=flat

El Chuxter
09-05-2006, 08:01 PM
Call me nuts, but I actually rather like the Prime.

Kidhuman
09-05-2006, 08:13 PM
I am digging it oo. It doesnt look bad, possibly because its the best of the bunch. Like the cute girl who hangs out with the fat ones to make herself better looking&

JediTricks
09-05-2006, 09:03 PM
Wow. How can those awful eyes or that creepy mouth not bother you?

Tycho
09-05-2006, 09:18 PM
I'm with JediTricks: They are so messing up his visage with this face sculpt!

Prime had several cool characteristics to his G1 face:

- the sort of sporty baseball hat type of dome was very action-oriented for him. I liked that. And it made him youthful in a way.

- the face guard "mouth-nose cover" gave him a ninja-like look to make him look every part the warrior.

This face makes him look more timid, or like an alien on Star Trek who's a victim of some other race or something. Yeah - the Autobots are sort of victims of the Decepticon agression - but you'd never know it by observing the traditional Optimus Prime. Perhaps when he was Orion Pax he was as peaceful as a dove - but this character is supposed to be Optimus Prime and he is one bad robot best described by Samuel L. Jackson! Prime in his G1 visage looks like a true threat to Megatron - as he should be.

As "good of guy" as Optimus Prime was - there was very little about him that showed mercy to Megatron or Starscream. Autobots might've been the more peaceful race - but they KILL Decepticons and don't give them much quarter.

This new image suggests a character that would write Megatron a letter, "Dear Mr. Decepticon Leader, could you please not flame me on MySpace as I am a sensitive being and feel offended by agressive messages sent my way concerning my disposition. Thank you for the concern you will show this matter..." Nah - the Optimus Prime I know would just as soon blast 6 holes through Megatron and then transform and run him over! That's what I want to see suggested by the appearance of Optimus Prime. He can show some mercy to be a "good guy," but it doesn't need to be apparent in his face. I prefer the tough guy stance like Worf on Next Generation for an example.

El Chuxter
09-05-2006, 09:53 PM
As "good of guy" as Optimus Prime was - there was very little about him that showed mercy to Megatron or Starscream. Autobots might've been the more peaceful race - but they KILL Decepticons and don't give them much quarter.

. . . Nah - the Optimus Prime I know would just as soon blast 6 holes through Megatron and then transform and run him over! That's what I want to see suggested by the appearance of Optimus Prime. He can show some mercy to be a "good guy," but it doesn't need to be apparent in his face. I prefer the tough guy stance like Worf on Next Generation for an example.

Did we know the same G1 Optimus Prime?


If he were more ruthless, he could be a more efficient combat leader. But then he wouldn't be Optimus Prime.

Prime is above all a pacifist, driven to war by forces beyond his control. "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" was his motto. Not "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, except for Decepticons, because they're dillweeds, and we should kick them in their robotic nads." He is a great military leader, though the only thing about him that could possibly be listed as a weakness is his compassion.

That's part of why Grimlock is so interesting to me. (Well, Grimlock from the comics and earliest cartoons.) He is the dark side that Optimus Prime simply does not have. "Among the victors, there is no room for the weak." That doesn't sound very Autobot, does it? Grimlock's only weaknesses are the aspects of his personality that are the very antithesis of Prime's strengths: his brashness, ruthlessness, and arrogance.

Tycho
09-05-2006, 11:22 PM
Well, this movie is kind of starting "G1" over. But time and time again, Optimus Prime learned not to show Decepticons mercy as they always exploited that, and by the time of the cartoon movie, Prime handled himself as he did in my favorite Transformers scene ever: when he rolled right into a hornets' nest of Decepticons and crashed through them then transformed on thrusts of fire, shooting half a dozen more right through the chest before he faced off with Megatron as "The Touch" blared in the background!

I hear what you're saying about Grimlock, but I lose respect for the Dinobot Commander as he really seemed intellectually challenged to me.

figrin bran
09-06-2006, 02:22 AM
after seeing the pics JT posted, optimus carp is more like it. i guess i'll just buy the mr. potato heads.

mabudonicus
09-06-2006, 08:05 AM
Yer NUTS Chux :beard:

Well, okay, I can see what there might be to like about the design itself, but I can't seem to get around the problems JT and others have pointed out, he really DOES look like one of them magnetic sculptures and as such is NOT the Ultra Solid Prime many of us were hoping for...
I suppose it has an anime style to it, but I would be more pleased if it were for patlabor or robotech or something, cos G1 Transformers flavour it does NOT have&

Tycho
09-07-2006, 03:22 AM
Most of you are on MySpace.

Go there and select "music" from the top menu.

Type in "Transformers" and you'll get about 3 pages worth of song sites you can add tunes to your profile with - just about everything from the 1986 Transformers cartoon movie.

Think about how much you want to hurt Michael Bay while you're listening to that agressive heavy metal soundtrack that so reminds me of Starscream screaching!

Then imagine Don Murphy being fried in Starscream's afterburners, falling down to be blasted by Megatron's arm cannon, only to be run over and crushed under Optimus Prime's 18 wheels!

Generation 1 must triumph!

JediTricks
09-07-2006, 04:21 PM
Well, this movie is kind of starting "G1" over.I don't get this, why is it so many Transfans cannot understand the concept of "generation"? I had this discussion over on BWTF's forums with site-owner Ben Yee when I asked why Alternators didn't have their own forum. To me, fans who cling to everything being not just related to but actually centered around G1 are incapable of moving the overall brand forward, like Star Wars collectors who want everything to be about the vintage Kenner line - to me it seems like living in the past, as if the brand is limited to just those aspects and any extensions are hindered by the boundries of the original toy line. This movie is not a reboot of G1 as far as I can tell but a whole different generation, borrowing a few riffs from the original G1 but largely going somewhere else with it. G1 is not synonymous with "Transformers" anymore, TF has become a rich, exciting franchise, and G1 is simply the first cartoon step of it (technically the toys came before G1 since the toyline came out first and the toys were released in Japan under previous names and different brands - in this fashion, TF is akin to Godzilla/Gojira).

Does this mean that Bay should be allowed any and all freedoms? No, because he's not being true to the essence of the franchise - the franchise is more than G1, there are overall qualities to it which should not be ignored or "rewritten" simply because Bay is an egotistical scumbag who makes studios money.


Dom suggested in an email to me recently that "The human factor is not necessarily bad" and argued for this TF film working because of it. My response was as follows...

Here's the thing, Transformers are fully-engaged characters on their own, this isn't like Robotech or Gundam where the mechs are just faceless empty robots, Transformers *are* self-aware, living characters in their own rite fully capable of expressing themselves in our own language even. Therein lies a key difference between the "human story" of Jurassic Park and Transformers, the dinos are not sentient and thus largely relegated to set pieces which works for that story - I personally felt the weakest parts of the movie were whenever we got raptors or spitters who interacted directly with the human characters because the overall story seemed to be about the humans coping with the park and its dino denizens until we got crazy smart, personable, expressive, hunting/killing dinosaurs who just behave differently - the human goals there are to experience and then escape the dinos and the human goals are the crux of the tale. The Transformers though are the main focus of their story, they are expressive, they are aware, they are sentient, their goals are above and beyond the humans on Earth - yet this movie is treating them like Jurassic Park or Godzilla, Bay even made a comparison between this film and JP. There are plenty of "human stories" out there in cinema, the only reason to make Transformers into one is because the director's vision is limited in scope and imagination.

Plus, Bay is notoriously horrible at telling human stories, he's all about quick cuts and fast action and explosions and loud punches of music, his characters are generic caricatures with moments of comedic sarcasm or evil or whatever cheap added motivation he pulls out of the cliche handbook, so it's not like we're going to get a brilliant human story either, we're going to get a lousy human story which dominates the screen similar to US Godzilla and dozens of plain ol' disaster films, we'll be lucky to get the human quality of Roland Emmerich's Independence Day - and that's not a good benchmark to set, it's just the better of a bad lot.

JediTricks
09-07-2006, 05:28 PM
Dom hit me off another email, and I wanted to post my reply...


But, if Bay were using a model timilar to what GW used to use, (when their fiction was consistently better than it is now), he could be using the human perspective to convey the fact that Transformers are fundamenatlly alien. GW meaning Games Workshop? Guild Wars? I dunno. Anyway, the "human perspective" can be an interesting storyline but I am firmly of the belief that it is a secondary one, a side-trip to an existing Transformers robot-centric universe. The human stories can be told because the TF stories have already established the universe for them to be told in, but this movie is throwing that out and establishing a new TF universe starting primarily about the humans - you cannot tell a human story about robots from Cybertron and their great battle, you can only tell a human story about scary alien robots from outer space who are tearing your planet apart, and to me that has been beaten to death for the past 60 years so hard it makes me weep, I don't want to see it again (and as a metaphor for our human existance, it is no longer entirely valid with the fall of the Berlin wall, suicide terrorists in our midsts, and a global internet). The human aspect of the Transformers' story is a fairly limited one, they have a rich history for thousands of years - millions even - which humans are totally ignorant of and play no part in, it's part of what makes them who they are and the human aspect of it is nill.


And, I stand my case that if TFs are going to be landing on Earth, they will have to interact with people. Granted, but it's still about perspective - if this is a story about Transformers, then the people are secondary, Obi-Wan lands on Utapau and meets those people, does that mean ROTS should be told from the Utapaun peoples' perspective? A better example: is ROTJ a movie about Ewoks? No, ROTJ establishes them as very helpful and devotes copious amounts of screentime to them, but they have nothing to do with the main story arc, they have no perspective on Jabba's Palace or the meeting in Home One or the dogfight in space - eventually they get 2 of their own movies but only after they've already been established (which goes to what I was saying above).

Tycho
09-07-2006, 11:57 PM
JediTricks and I see so eye-to-eye on all of this.

The one point I think he observed that we differed on was how much I love Optimus Prime as the classic red, cab-over, and Megatron and Starscream and all in their traditional robot forms, even if new vehicles and colors seem appropriate (but not messing with their traditional G1 faces).

Those are the characters I grew up with that I dreamed of seeing done as realistically as possible, especially now that computer animation has gotten to the stage it has.

So I don't think it's wrong to want what I always wanted. I don't think it's wrong to tweak it a little bit (such as Starscream's colors, etc.) But to completely reinvent it may be Bay (and even Hasbro's perogative), but it's not to my taste and I'm greatly angered by it.

JediTricks
09-08-2006, 02:31 PM
First off, Seibertron has some pictures taken of a production mock-up showing a battle among the tall buildings and cars below:

http://seibertron.com/news/view.php?id=8350

In it, we get a first glimpse at Ironhide, Ratchet, Tiny Jazz, and a Decepticon which I'm guessing is Brawl; we also get a look at Starscream in comparison to the others, and it's utterly ridiculous, he's bigger than Megatron, he's so wide he looks like a sumo wrestler! And why is it that the Decepticons are twice as big as the Autobots???

Oh, and those mocked-up city streets... where the hell do you find a 6-lane-wide street downtown with sidewalks big enough to accomodate 2 more lanes each?!?


Something I pointed out to Dom today about the human aspect is:

...look at Beast Wars, not a motherlovin' human in sight and that's the best damn TF cartoon of all time.

(Yes, I'm aware that there were a few protohumans in a couple eps from time to time, but they played almost no part in the story itself.)

So, Michael Bay can suck it!

Tycho
09-08-2006, 05:21 PM
JT: while I usually agree with you - that looks pretty good (except the sidewalks)

The street looks like LA to me. But I'm from San Diego.

Meanwhile, many Decepticons were always bigger than Autobots.

Prime looks great as the largest Autobot!

The other 3 giants must be Decepticons: Megatron is furthest back, Starscream may be larger because he's an earth jet, Megatron is rumored to be a Cybertronian one. I don't know who's the big dude in the foreground. Does Scorponok transform? I heard rumors he was a Beast-Machine. So that could be Blackout or Brawl that I don't recognize. Furthermore, Ironhide seems to be missing from the picture. My guess is Ratchet is that vehicle behind BumbleBee.

Kidhuman
09-08-2006, 05:38 PM
Either way the pics suck.

mabudonicus
09-08-2006, 05:41 PM
mmmm.. looks like the aliens from ID4 built themselves environment suits...

I swear, if they are supposed to be quintesons these designs might work, but they're WAY too organic-lookin, WAY too dark and seemingly MUCH too big

Pretty ugly mockup there JT, you should give yerself a warning for posting that link ;)

:beard:&

Rocketboy
09-08-2006, 09:55 PM
Don't think this is actually anything, despite "Property of ILM" in the corner because this doesn't look like the TF's we've seen so far - it looks like an original, old school TF.

(link removed)

Tycho
09-08-2006, 11:51 PM
It's been out there for a while. However it is exactly what the G1 purist fans want from a Transformers movie. If Michael Bay were paying attention, that's the kind of movie he'd produce.

JediTricks
09-09-2006, 03:52 PM
Rocketboy, please be more careful when you link to pages, while the content of the video was not a prob, the rest of the page had links and text that WAS, so I had to pull the link.


My thoughts are either that this is VERY early test footage or just a fake, either way it's obviously not the style they're going for with this movie.

Tycho
09-09-2006, 04:06 PM
Rocketboy, please be more careful when you link to pages, while the content of the video was not a prob, the rest of the page had links and text that WAS, so I had to pull the link.



JT: I loved "the rest of the page's links and text!" :D

But the pictures were the best, though they were sized too small.

El Chuxter
09-09-2006, 04:46 PM
Oooooh, burrrrrnn!! He got you good!

darthvyn
09-10-2006, 05:58 PM
Rocketboy, please be more careful when you link to pages, while the content of the video was not a prob, the rest of the page had links and text that WAS, so I had to pull the link.


DOOMED!!!

man, i'm totally done with this movie. not excited in the slightest. i can't believe what a mockery they've made of this franchise.

JediTricks
09-11-2006, 02:43 PM
Did a car just vomit all its guts out? No, it's just movie Bumblebee from the front (his second body, the new Camaro): http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6496&mode=flat

El Chuxter
09-11-2006, 02:48 PM
Hmm. Looks like the transformations are hella complicated. Wonder how Hasbro'll handle that.

Tycho
09-11-2006, 02:58 PM
The toys will be nothing like the robots you see in the movie, further making this one big fiasco.

In principle, this is supposed to be a live-action movie based on a toy brand

Instead, this will be a live-action movie based on Michael Bay's twisted insides, and one will have to use their imagination to see toys that imitate it.

mabudonicus
09-11-2006, 04:47 PM
Odd, in the discussion they're talkin about how he doesn't have hands, but if I can see's 'em, anyone should be able to, no??

:beard: :mabs:&

JediTricks
09-11-2006, 05:26 PM
Mabs, the left hand is tucked under the left side of the chest and disconnected from the left arm, I don't think they knew that and just saw that the left arm had no hand at the end. The right arm has its hand at the end.


Judging from Hasbro's prototypes for Blackout and Starscream, they're going to take the basic lines and shapes and put them on more traditional TF blocky bodies, so they'll still have some of those kibble panels and TMNT toes, but the more Bionicle natures will be set aside.

Rogue II
09-11-2006, 05:33 PM
Did a car just vomit all its guts out? No, it's just movie Bumblebee from the front (his second body, the new Camaro): http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6496&mode=flat

Are you sure it's the one from the movie? It is right next to a grabage can, so it looks like they are throwing it away.;)

Droid
09-11-2006, 06:12 PM
I urge everyone to rent or buy the first season of the Transformers cartoon and watch it rather than this movie.

Say what you will about Lucas, but he didn't revamp what Darth Vader looked like for Episode III. And he could have, he could have said it was an early version of the suit which Vader refined over the years. He could have made some crazy looking thing.

And that is what they have done with the Transformers, reimagined them to the point where I don't know what I'm looking at. It's like some bad version of a characters from Power Rangers/Voltron/Godzilla.

Tycho
09-11-2006, 06:25 PM
Droid is so correct.

A slight wind of hope I caught from MySpace suggested that towards the end of the picture, BumbleBee will opt for a more human "G1" style face as he will be deciding to live on earth for a while. By that point, at least his face will look more like the G1 we all knew and loved. Perhaps that will be the case with all the Transformers, though Megatron will need a complete overall if he is some kind of Cybertronian jet as pictures have indicated.

If Hasbro is not making "Bionicle toys" to represent the characters in the movie, and Michael Bay is making nothing that resembles what could feasibly turn into the vehicles as toys, I suggest he is NOT making a Transformers movie.

The "boxy robots that look like jets and cars standing on two legs and walking" ARE the essence of what Transformers are! The original Ark storyline that has Teletran-1 altering their physical appearance as it repairs the wounded Autobot and Decepticon crew alike worked perfectly. That's all Michael Bay had to make a movie around. It was already written for him 20 years ago!

That's what we wanted anyway. So what if we already knew what would happen: that Megatron draws a "laser-mace" on Optimus Prime who pulls out an "Energon-Axe" on top of Sherman Dam? We've never seen it done with realistic CGI - that's all we ever wanted!

I dare say that girls are not going to flock to this film by and large because Spike Whitwicky has a date he takes out in BumbleBee who he finds in a used car lot. This isn't "Titanic," this WAS supposed to be Transformers! Girls who go and see this picture (besides being dragged along by their sons and boyfriends), will be curious to see large robots duking it out - and everything rests on how well the audience empathizes with Optimus Prime - the supposed-main-character. That's the way its supposed to go down.

Michael Bay just doesn't seem to get it.

JediTricks
09-11-2006, 06:36 PM
Tycho, this is Bumblebee's head and body from late in the film, the rest of the movie he's the old Camaro body, this is the new version.


If Hasbro is not making "Bionicle toys" to represent the characters in the movie, and Michael Bay is making nothing that resembles what could feasibly turn into the vehicles as toys, I suggest he is NOT making a Transformers movie.Now that's a good argument! :D

Rocketboy
09-11-2006, 09:02 PM
Rocketboy, please be more careful when you link to pages, while the content of the video was not a prob, the rest of the page had links and text that WAS, so I had to pull the link.


My thoughts are either that this is VERY early test footage or just a fake, either way it's obviously not the style they're going for with this movie.Oops! My bad.
I wasn't thinking about the other stuff in that site when I posted that.

Tycho
09-11-2006, 09:16 PM
Oops! My bad.
I wasn't thinking about the other stuff in that site when I posted that.

I was. :D

Did that post have anything to do with .... What were we talking about?

Rocketboy
09-11-2006, 09:26 PM
I was. :D

Did that post have anything to do with .... What were we talking about?
It was suppossed to be a CG test shot of a TF, which looked like an original TF. It looked reminiscent of that CG Optimus footage that's out there.

I'll shoot you a PM if I find it again.

Tycho
09-11-2006, 11:42 PM
I saw it before. Thanks. I just sent you a PM saying that I couldn't get it to play this time. However, the robot looks very much like SideSwipe in terms of size and coloring (though it was not a Lamborghini or Dodge Viper being used for the CGI test).

It was cool and exactly what I'd expect from a live-action Transformers movie (well I'd prefer a Countach or a Viper, but anyways...) It also makes me really think that Michael Bay is full-of-it when he says that characters like Optimus Prime can't come out of the cab-over form he's traditionally been portrayed in, and so forth. If the toys work, then the CGI machines would. Duh.

JediTricks
09-14-2006, 11:33 PM
Well, now the Ark's out of the story, which I guess means Teletraan-I is too.
According to a thread on Don Murphy's board, the Ark will not be making an appearance in the upcoming Transformers movie. A poll asking members how they would feel about the Ark not making an appearance in the movie has prompted Roberto Orci, half of the screenwriter duo, to comment, "One of the questions we always had about the ark: Why would aliens who moonlight as vehicles need other vehicles to travel inside?"
http://tformers.com/Ark-Not-Making-An-Appearance-In-the-Movie/6513/news.html

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the writers imaginations are so limited that they can't understand the Transformers are a civilization all to their own and have use for interstellar transport beyond a robot who turns into a truck. Maybe they don't want to waste all their personal energy just to get from planet to planet, much less getting a small car-bot off the ground.

El Chuxter
09-14-2006, 11:59 PM
Besides, only Jetfire, Astrotrain, Dreadwing, Sky Lynx, and possibly Blast Off could possibly make an interplanetary trip unaided.

Tycho
09-15-2006, 12:45 AM
No. Very unfortunately, Michael Bay is off on some interplanetary trip unaided as well. :rolleyes:

OK DUH: the rest of this is written for the scant hope that Bay actually reads it, because the rest of us know this:

Transformers transform to disguise themselves and carry out covert operations - not find work as taxi cabs. In fact, if all of Cybertron's civilization would ever be shown, I bet MOST robots there do not transform, and the fighters, or those that adapted to being fighters, developed the technique soley for military purposes. So hence they'd have every reason to use a ship-vehicle like The Ark.

Lesson over. Common sense delivered. But it appears Michael Bay is somehow immune.

JediTricks
09-15-2006, 02:14 PM
Don't worry, the new rumor is that the bots get to Earth via comets... COMETS!!!! WHAT THE F***?!??!?!? When this movie comes out we're going to need to convene a war-crimes tribunal on everybody involved in this offense against humanity!

Rogue II
09-15-2006, 02:25 PM
Besides, only Jetfire, Astrotrain, Dreadwing, Sky Lynx, and possibly Blast Off could possibly make an interplanetary trip unaided.

What about G1 Omega Supreme?

El Chuxter
09-15-2006, 02:29 PM
Don't worry, the new rumor is that the bots get to Earth via comets... COMETS!!!! WHAT THE F***?!??!?!? When this movie comes out we're going to need to convene a war-crimes tribunal on everybody involved in this offense against humanity!

When did this go from The Transformers to Gobots: Challenge of the Rock Lords? Major WTF moment there.


What about G1 Omega Supreme?

Duh. Only his arms were able to travel in space.

Rogue II
09-15-2006, 02:33 PM
Duh. Only his arms were able to travel in space.

Well, they are changing everything else, why not Omega Supreme. He had some classic lines in the cartoons.

Tycho
09-15-2006, 03:07 PM
I for one am glad: I use Comet to clean out the toilet bowl.

This project really seems to need some of that.

figrin bran
09-16-2006, 02:14 AM
Gnarls Barkley's Transformers song is going to be in the movie.

i don't actually know that - just trying to start rumors ;)

El Chuxter
09-16-2006, 08:25 AM
I'd prefer to hear Lion's Transformers song. :)

Gnarls Barkley? That's a totally un-clever name. Is s/he/they for real?

mabudonicus
09-16-2006, 09:56 AM
As real as the Transformers movie, Chux :beard:

I think it's safe to say that we can all start to take this as very dark humour, tho, that comet thing is idiotic (good one, Tycho) all's we can enjoy is how far off the mark it gets with each revelation.....&

JediTricks
09-16-2006, 03:55 PM
I for one am glad: I use Comet to clean out the toilet bowl.

This project really seems to need some of that.Well, this project is in the toilet, but you can't clean a turd. :p

Droid
09-17-2006, 11:08 AM
Didn't the aliens in the recent War of the Worlds ride a bolt of lightning into the Earth to get into their death machines? Maybe Bay thought that sounded REALLY cool. :rolleyes:

darthvyn
09-20-2006, 02:44 PM
Don't worry, the new rumor is that the bots get to Earth via comets... COMETS!!!! WHAT THE F***?!??!?!? When this movie comes out we're going to need to convene a war-crimes tribunal on everybody involved in this offense against humanity!

why don't they just use magic fairy dust and think happy thoughts? i don't understand how there could be anyone out there still excited for this movie. it's unfathomable.

JediTricks
09-20-2006, 05:25 PM
I don't know how either, but the guys on the TF forums I visit, a lot of them are still buying into this poodoo and I really don't get it. Some claim they can accept changes because they already have time and time again with G2, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and other lines, but this goes well beyond all that I think.

Droid
09-21-2006, 09:13 AM
I saw the preview for the first time last night. Yep, robot invasion movie about humans, not movie about Transformers. ID4/War of the Worlds Part 2.
Why are the Transformers on Mars and then get to Earth 2 years later? Are they stuck waiting to catch the next comet to Earth? :rolleyes:

I think a lot of people will go see this thing because I think at this point, regardless of any original strategy they may have had, the powers that be are going to keep the robots under wraps. I'll bet all the previews play like teasers, with very few shots of the Transformers. People will go see it because not everyone follows spoilers on the web and they'll sit in the dark and say, "What in the world am I watching?"

I bet it makes about $150 million. Probably a $100 opening weekend and then it will creep along making significantly less for a few more weeks before it vanishes. It will probably do a respectable business once global gross and DVD sales are accounted for.

Tycho
09-21-2006, 01:46 PM
Droid, I read that the Mars thing was only for the teaser and the movie will have no scenes on Mars at all. Who knows though?

I only hope you are right and Michael Bay and the team are leaking false images out whereas their real plans are to remake the G1 Cartoon as a live-action piece. We can only hope.

Droid
09-21-2006, 02:05 PM
Tycho, I meant that they are going to try to keep the robots a secret now that they know how mad people are, not that they are keeping the REAL Transformers a secret or that anything is going to change from what we've seen. I'm saying that they will try to hide how terrible the thing is with teaser previews.

Tycho
09-21-2006, 02:14 PM
I doubt it - the images have been leaked all over the web. Those who don't search for spoilers or have internet access might be surprised, but unless Bay decides to revamp what we've seen and go back to G1 designs, covering the images up now will hardly do any good. If they think they're that good - then showing them early, transforming, fighting, everything would benefit the hype-up for this movie rather than the opposite.

The "don't show the monster approach" didn't work for Godzilla.

Tycho
09-25-2006, 07:42 PM
On MySpace I found the links to the following:

There's some renderings of Jazz in robot form - seems OK, but the face is off from G1 style and I wish it weren't.

Then there's this link to Frank Welker (Megatron) interviewed and it includes an audio track of him as Megatron (unfinished or un-augmentated and unscripted) - but it's pretty fun.

http://www.allspark.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=3

JediTricks
09-26-2006, 04:00 PM
That's concept art for Jazz, it looks similar to the small cutout in that cityscape we saw but definitely the cutout was the CGI model and had more changes - there was less armor, what remained was smaller, and he was a little more awkward and spindly.

JediTricks
09-29-2006, 09:07 PM
Hasbro commented on the movie at Botcon:
http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=6589

- When asked about Movie toys: Hasbro is working with movie design team effect toy making process. Aaron Archer {I believe the Hasbro TF brand manager - JT} worked about 1 and 1/2 months side by side with those guys. That's all he could say.

- Did the fan reaction to the leaked images surprise them? Didn't surprise Archer. However, he's not sure if Paramount was prepared for how big the problem was.

- Hasbro wants us to voice our opinions about the movie.

- Archer has seen about 20 min of stuff from the movie. His non-corporate answer is he really likes what he has scene from the movie.

- Archer doesn't think that Transformers have a unique look. They want to push the boundaries. The character is the character no matter how u draw it as long as its done with integrity.

Tycho
10-01-2006, 12:59 PM
Here's video footage of an exploding Furbies truck from the upcoming film.

It's not too exciting, but makes you think "Doesn't Starscream have anything better to do?"

http://blogging.la/archives/2006/09/transformers_movie_furby_truck.phtml

Note: I don't know which Decepticon destroys the Furbies - just sounded like something Starscream would be competant enough to pull off.

They'll be no danger of Furbies outselling Transformers for Christmas 2007 I guess. :rolleyes:

Below is a link to some photoshop mockups of traditional G1 Transformers in real life. It's really worth checking out!

http://www.jesterpictures.com/transformers/index.html

JediTricks
10-01-2006, 08:08 PM
That Furby thing is pretty lame, I guess this movie is taking place 7 years in the past or something. I had read about this already but seeing it just reminds me how dated a reference it is.

That Optimus and Starscream really are great, the rest aren't quite working for me as strongly - especially Devastator, gestalt giant robots just seem silly in "real life" size to me, not imposing, just goofy.

Tycho
10-01-2006, 08:21 PM
What does "gestalt" mean? I keep seeing that term around Transformers sites.

El Chuxter
10-01-2006, 10:33 PM
Gestalt = any giant robot comprised of several members of a specialized team, eg Devastator, Bruticus, Defensor.

I've never heard it applied to Dreadwing, the Duocons, or the MicroMaster Combiners, though.

mabudonicus
10-02-2006, 08:36 AM
Yeah. gestalt is a pretty handy term, it basically means a bunch of stuff that comes together to make something that would be hard to define with reference to any one element (so personally I prefer "combiners" in the T-formers sense, since with them, 5 pretty similar things form together to make what is basically a big version of the smaller components :))

Okay, back to talkin about this suck-festival :beard:&

El Chuxter
10-02-2006, 08:46 AM
Are there going to be Headmasters in the movie?&

JediTricks
10-02-2006, 03:45 PM
Gestalt = any giant robot comprised of several members of a specialized team, eg Devastator, Bruticus, Defensor.

I've never heard it applied to Dreadwing, the Duocons, or the MicroMaster Combiners, though.G2 Dreadwing - whom I have actually - isn't a gestalt in TF terms because G2 Smokescreen only docks with him in vehicle mode, not robot mode, and even then it's not a necessity, they're both complete vehicles without each other.


No Headmasters or any other gimmick-sub-line guys, everybody will just be a monsterous kibblemaster instead. :p

El Chuxter
10-02-2006, 04:31 PM
G2 Dreadwing - whom I have actually - isn't a gestalt in TF terms because G2 Smokescreen only docks with him in vehicle mode, not robot mode, and even then it's not a necessity, they're both complete vehicles without each other.

I was talking about G1 Dreadwing, the combination of Dreadwind and Darkwing.

Tycho
10-02-2006, 05:01 PM
No - I've finally "got it." Megatron looks like a "Predator" born with a birth defect!

JediTricks
10-04-2006, 01:48 PM
I was talking about G1 Dreadwing, the combination of Dreadwind and Darkwing.Oh, I had not heard of that one before, it's not listed under the name since they're 2 separate names without the combiner name as its own bot - unusual! That is one ugly combined vehicle. :p

El Chuxter
10-04-2006, 02:03 PM
Oh, I had not heard of that one before, it's not listed under the name since they're 2 separate names without the combiner name as its own bot - unusual! That is one ugly combined vehicle. :p

I think it actually listed the name on the packaging, IIRC. They combined in the comic (I don't recall them being in the 'toon, unless it was only in Japan), but I don't believe they used the name Dreadwing.

An ugly combined vehicle, true, but great for outrunning Mecannibals. :)

Tycho
10-11-2006, 09:14 PM
I've got it!

Michael Bay has created False-Transformers!

You see, these are robots who claim they are Transformers but rather hypocritically they actually are Bionicles. So they are just trying to pretend they are Transformers to get in this movie next summer.

They hope that a number of casual movie-goers and inexperienced consumers will believe them that they are True-Transformers, but in reality, they never will be.

Tycho
10-12-2006, 06:31 PM
NEW RUMOR! - Stan Bush to record on soundtrack.

I don't have this on good authority, but gleaned it off my MySpace Transformers group.

Stan Bush is supposedly welcomed back to make new recordings for the live-action Transformers film. He did "The Touch," and "Dare" for the 1986 cartoon movie.

The above is true. Below are my lyrics for the new hit single off this soundtrack, called "The Trash" (sung to the tune of The Touch of course)

"You've got the trash!"

"You've lost two hours!"

..........................

"After all is said and done.

You spent $10 bucks and had no fun.

You're a loser!

You've gone for broke

You knew this beat

You lost all sense

And bought a seat

You're a sucker!

You've lost your cash and your childhood
Say goodbye to your past and Hollywood

You've got the trash!
You've lost two hours!
You're feeling worse
and you want to hollar
You're coming apart
this was awful
You want to just go home and crash
You've got the trash!

They've bent all rules
This show you hate
you lost all love
for what once was great

And you're standing your ground!

All they could do
was remake a cartoon
instead what they did
they set out to ruin!

You've lost your cash and your childhood
Say goodbye to your past and Hollywood

You've got the trash!
You've lost two hours!
You're feeling worse
and you want to hollar
You're coming apart
this was awful
You want to just go home and crash
You've got the trash!

Tycho
10-16-2006, 09:25 PM
Don't miss my great contribution to music above, but now for some new news!

I heard this in my Transformers group and will post it in the toy thread as well:

Don Murphy has confirmed that Megatron's head / face will be changed from the early graphics we've seen (and all complained about)!

A slight hope that fan-pressure has been working?

JediTricks
10-17-2006, 01:50 PM
I don't believe it's fan pressure, and I bet it won't be anything Megatron-like, I've always thought the face they had was way too small and intricate to be emotive on the big screen, you just can't see his features that way - I bet they changed the head due to that alone, and it'll be only a small face change accenting his eyes and mouth more.

Tycho
10-21-2006, 06:20 PM
I have the movie script!

I take back a lot of what I've said about this movie. The story is freaking awesome!

I'm still reading, but I think this is the official script (about 112 pages) and I'm digging it. There is at least one or two ideas in it that I'm not terribly keen on - it's spoiler topics, so I'll need JT to reteach me how to make stuff invisible (save for highlighting) again - I think that I'll find that in the Smallville thread though.

But for the most part, I'm liking what I'm reading.

Droid
10-21-2006, 07:35 PM
Who cares what the story is?! They won't look like Transformers so what difference does it make?!

Tycho
10-21-2006, 08:53 PM
Without a good story, any drama or action flick is NOTHING. Everything relies on good writing. I have to say that this flick will HAVE an AWESOME STORY!

I just finished reading all of it and was thoroughly impressed - much to my surprise.

I still think they could do this with pretty much a G1 look and I'd appreciate it more, but....

Here comes the spoiler discussion. JediTricks taught me how to type invisible stuff - you need to highlight the text with your mouse to read it.

Please post any responses you have to spoiler material in invisible text as well.

To post it with inviso-spoiler text, use this code, only replace the { with [ obviously...

{color=F0EDED} INVISIBLE SPOILER TEXT HERE {/color}

And it will come out like so (highlight to view):
::: INVISIBLE SPOILER TEXT HERE :::

Now the spoiler talk (in the extreme):


Jazz gets killed by Megatron
Bonecrusher, Brawl (a Mustang police car), Devastator (a tank), Vortex, the chopper, Soundwave, all also get killed - Soundwave might be recoverable
Soundwave might still be changed to Frenzy in name only
a wounded BumbleBee kills Devastator
Scorponok probably lives but will be missing his tail; he sounds small actually - smaller than Vortex for sure.
Vortex has been named Incinerator and Blackout in other rumors. Whichever he'll wind up being, he's a helicopter
Spike helps destroy Megatron with Optimus Prime's aid
Megatron may not be dead, but it appears so - and they have a body, but the military's idea of how to dispose of it is very stupid - disassembly would be the ideal route to go - he's THAT much of a threat
Optimus Prime and Megatron are brothers -where they pulled that one out of, I'm not sure. But for this story, it works, but it could just as soon be irrelevant.
Starscream escapes. He has few lines in the movie. There's no scripted coup attempt by him to take over the Decepticons
The movie could work as a stand-alone film, or start a sequel with all the usual cliche's one would expect.
Starscream will likely be a short-term leader of the Decepticons if there is to be another film.
Optimus Prime calls out for all Autobots in the galaxy to rendezvous with him on earth - so that will lead to new characters being possible for the next film.
Realistically, the Transformers do not speak in English, but communicate like Dial-Up internet connection sounds, except when they address humans. They learned all of Earth's languages from the internet, but first thought we spoke Chinese because there's more Chinese than any other nationality.
In fact, the movie hints at an arms race between the US and China - the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the powers that be have this planted into movies to prepare societies for the next Cold War?
BumbleBee is seriously funny and cool. You're going to like him.
Ratchet and Jazz don't do too much. Ratchet barely anything at all it seems. Jazz dies fighting the good fight
Ironhide gets his leg pee'd on by Spike's dog. He also is true to his hot-headed character. He'll be fun for G1 fans.
Optimus Prime sounds awesome! Everything you'd expect!
They each have scanners built in within them that scan earth-machines and engage their transformation matrixes.
Megatron never has, nor needs, the opportunity to scan and disguise himself. He's a Cybertronian fighter jet.
The "Energon Cube" is a device that embeds "sparks" in machines, causing them to become alive (think Maximum Overdrive) - but this has a stupid effect of making plasma TVs attack people in Target. *sigh* - it's true.
PM me with your e-mail if you want me to send you the complete script. It is 112 pages. With naps, it took me about 6 hours to read. I had to pause and call friends as I learned stuff I never knew before.


I think the movie sounds super-real (for the most part) and awesome with real drama in its scripting and cool character development for at least 3 of the Autobots. The Decepticons are basically used as prop devices though Megatron's personality is solid. The movie is a lot about humans and what we can accomplish in the face of "a giant robot invasion," so yeah - expect "Independence Day (ID4) with robots."

I'm still looking forward to this. Now I wish they'd refine some of the Transformers' looks.

Droid
10-22-2006, 09:55 AM
Nothing you have revealed improves my opinion of this movie one byte.

JediTricks
10-22-2006, 04:19 PM
I am pretty sure Tycho has one of those old scripts that was heavily changed for the movie that's been floating around the web for a while now.

Oh the humanity! The movie preview toys are Optimus and Starscream in protoform mode, they're essentially Gobots Rock Lords: http://tformers.com/TF-Movie-Protoform-Optimus-Prime-Starscream/6699/news.html
Is it possible they could look any worse??? I don't see how.

Tycho
10-22-2006, 04:35 PM
Did you like that story, JT?

I thought it was awesome and played out well in spite of it not being what I'd originally wanted.

It made sense to me.

Type invisibly any spoiler points you want to nitpick.

JediTricks
10-22-2006, 06:26 PM
No, I didn't care for what I've seen of it, it's too generic and goes too far from the Transformers theme.

BTW, "Blackout" is the character's official name, has been for some time.

Tycho
10-22-2006, 06:56 PM
No, I didn't care for what I've seen of it, it's too generic and goes too far from the Transformers theme.

Specifically? You could make this invisible.

El Chuxter
10-22-2006, 11:43 PM
Normally I hate spoilers, but I figure this movie is going to suck anyway, so I read them. Not sure what in that tangled mess made you like the script, unless it's just the execution. It still sounds remarkably mediocre to me.

JediTricks
10-23-2006, 03:29 PM
Normally I hate spoilers, but I figure this movie is going to suck anyway, so I read them. Not sure what in that tangled mess made you like the script, unless it's just the execution. It still sounds remarkably mediocre to me.
Ditto, thank you.

Tycho
10-23-2006, 06:28 PM
I posted what I like in invisble text below:



I liked the emotion written into the relationship that evolves between Spike and a damaged BumbleBee.

I like the WB story to Spike and Mikaela's blossoming love, and the "Peter Parker" way they wrote him and had him evolve from there.

I like the Marines' relentless struggle to survive pursuit by Scorponok and their eventually "making it."

I like Soundwave's threat on AirForce One and how dangerous and grotesque he's described as (or Frenzy if they change his name in production).

I like the cuteness of Spike trying to hide 10-story high robots and a girl in his bedroom all from his parents, in the face of a giant robot war on earth.

I like Optimus Prime's respect for human life and his decision to protect us the best he can.

I like that at least Jazz dies, showing that it's a serious film and not a "everyone gets shot and recovers just fine like the end of a cartoon show type of film." Picking Jazz shocks his fans and destroys the nicest looking Autobot in the show.

I like how they can use a plausible route for why the Transformers adapt earth-disguises, and how they do it - and that they don't initially arrive here looking like Tonka Toys and Hot Wheels - but they actually do represent alien lifeforms then adapt to earth forms.

I like how the Decepticons are already here and have adapted - making one fearful that ANYTHING in their parking garage to their desktop is a murderous lifeform just waiting to strike.

I like how they are fighting for "the Matrix" of sorts, but wish they wouldn't call it "the Energon Cube," as E.C.'s were a dime a dozen in the old cartoon.

Anyway, that's just part of what I appreciate. And NO: I still do not like the designs. Once they adapt earth forms, they could look more like G1 and it'd make me happier!

Michael Bay doesn't really get credit for what I like. The writer does.

figrin bran
10-23-2006, 10:09 PM
normally i love spoilers but in this case, i might be better served avoiding them! :p

Tycho
10-24-2006, 05:30 AM
I made this picture of all the Autobots in the upcoming movie (in their vehicle modes).

This is the real deal, save for Nemesis Prime (the Alternator) who's standing in for Ironhide - though you can barely tell (but the red tinted windows are sort of a giveaway).

What other Autobots would you like to eventually see in a live-action film?

Me?

Hound
Mirage
Wheeljack

Are in my Top 3 that need to get in there.

And I found this video of Soundwave dancing - it's pretty cool actually:

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-9037940286700388608&q=transformers

Tycho
10-24-2006, 06:25 AM
Next I made the following picture of all the Decepticons in this film (in their vehicle modes).

Megatron never adapts an "earth disguise" in this film.

I took it from the script that Scorponok is sort of like the face-huggers in the Alien films, and I don't think he is a Transformer - just a drone.

Brawl (the cop car) might be Barricade.

Devastator (the tank) might be Brawl (a G1 Combaticon was a tank by this name)

Blackout (the helicopter) might be Vortex (also a G1 Combaticon)

Soundwave (the boombox) might be Frenzy because of fan outrage.

Bonecrusher (the mine clearing vehicle) was a bulldozer Constructicon in G1

A lot of liberties were taken with the Decepticons to be sure, but I think they are cool - and threatening, as well.

What other Decepticons would you like to see appear in a live-action film?

A triple-changer like Blitzwing would be awesome!

The other G1 jets would be fun, nostalgic, but I have little preference for one over another.

Swindle would be cool.

Here's this movie's Decepticons in vehicle form:

kool-aid killer
11-04-2006, 12:41 PM
I found the DVD rerelease of the Transformers movie cartoon from back in the day at a Kmart yesterday. I was under the impression these werent supposed to be out yet until next week. The packaging is nice looking. Disc one has Unicron in his planet mode, and disc two has the matrix on it. I might watch it later today, but i still need to get through Voltron so i may have to wait.

JediTricks
11-04-2006, 06:49 PM
Nov 7th is the street date, guess someone jumped the gun at Kmart.

Tycho
11-05-2006, 12:16 AM
In 11 days since I posted them, no one has made any comment about the collage images of the movie vehicle forms for the 7-4-07 film, such as "they all look good (or bad) together," etc.

JediTricks
11-05-2006, 03:58 AM
Each one has only had 7 views, I think people are either already familiar or just don't care anymore about this project.

Tycho
11-05-2006, 07:41 AM
I wonder if that means people here are not going to go and see the movie when it debuts?

Or they'll wait until they hear good things from some of us?

I'm still going to go the opening weekend. July 4th is a Wednesday, so it'll have a 5-day stretch. I wonder if that means line-ups on Tuesday night, 11pm time, so that at midnight, they'll screen it?

I don't think I'll be able to do that show, but I could see myself going Wednesday during the day time. Perhaps the first show.

kool-aid killer
11-05-2006, 05:45 PM
As of right now, i have every intention of being at this movie on opening day. I havent read much in terms of plot, nor have i searched the internet for pictures of them, so im going in kind of naive. I dont want to go in with a bias other than generally liking things that are Transformers related. I'll let the actual movie be what i judge it by, rather than by the pictures or others opinions.

JediTricks
11-06-2006, 01:41 AM
I wonder if that means people here are not going to go and see the movie when it debuts?Nah, they'll go see it, big summer movie, beloved franchise, famous project, it'll make a ton of cash its opening weekend no matter how awful it may be... Bay's last project, The Island, didn't do well but also didn't have a lot of PR behind the project during development and wasn't a beloved franchise.

figrin bran
11-06-2006, 02:16 AM
In 11 days since I posted them, no one has made any comment about the collage images of the movie vehicle forms for the 7-4-07 film, such as "they all look good (or bad) together," etc.

no, we'd rather watch the next Scooby Doo movie sequel

Droid
11-06-2006, 01:52 PM
I will never see it.

El Chuxter
11-09-2006, 12:28 PM
I've got to say, after seeing the (brief) featurette on the 20th Anniversary DVD of the original movie, I'm once again planning to see this opening weekend. It looks cool, and I can forgive the... liberties.

Tycho
11-09-2006, 01:53 PM
Did they show any Transformers in action on the DVD featurette (of the live-action characters)?

El Chuxter
11-09-2006, 01:56 PM
A lot of action with Transformers in vehicle mode, and humans. No giant robots. It also explicitly said (twice) that there'd be a car chase that would involve at least one transformation at 80 MPH.

Tycho
11-09-2006, 03:13 PM
A lot of action with Transformers in vehicle mode, and humans.

Which characters?


It also explicitly said (twice) that there'd be a car chase that would involve at least one transformation at 80 MPH.I read the script, so I know exactly which scene that will be. It will be an entertaining fight no doubt. See spoiler names (highlight to read):

::: (hidden text here) BumbleBee kicking Brawl's butt while saving Spike and Mikaela. BumbleBee's a stud in this version. I can hear Stan Bush's "Dare" blaring in the background for this one. :::

El Chuxter
11-09-2006, 03:18 PM
Yeah, a lot of shots of Brawl chasing Bumblebee. Also some military folks running in the desert, and a few various helicopters.

Tycho
11-09-2006, 03:25 PM
DARE!
Dare to believe you can survive!
The Power is there at your command
Dare!
Dare for a place where dreams survive
It's calling you on to Victory!

This movie may be awesome yet. I swear everyone's going to walk out of it BumbleBee's biggest fans! Michael Bay features him as "the old-new Hot Rod."

JediTricks
11-09-2006, 03:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlxNUpPH9Ag
I saw that video from the DVD on Youtube today, Spielberg feels like a complete lying sack every time he says he's been a fan of Transformers forever, and every time Bay says "real" about the TFs it makes me hate him because there's nothing particularly real about "a thousand parts moving at once" with a lot of exposed little fragile pistons and junk and no armor and the car is pure kibble.

Plus, there's the horror of seeing Bumblebee's CG photos: http://tformers.com/Transformers-Bumblebee-Concept-Art-Surfaces/6752/news.html

UGH! Looks like someone blew up a car.

Tycho
11-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Sweet! You can see BumbleBee vs. Barricade in action, plus shots of Optimus Prime (unfinished it appears) and Ratchet (nicely done!)

I don't think any of the jets shown were Starscream.

The soldiers running were fighting (invisible) ::: Blackout and Scorponok . "Instruments of Destruction" indeed.

Wouldn't it be sweet if they re-used the music from the 1986 picture?

I'd love it if actually ALL those songs were re-used (uh except maybe "The Death of Optimus Prime." An Autobot will die, but it's not Prime and the music would be inappropriate for the scene as I read it.)

figrin bran
11-10-2006, 02:26 AM
just when i was ready to turn the corner and be more accepting of the film, i saw the monstrosity that is Toa Bumblebee.

Droid
11-10-2006, 08:54 AM
I'd like Spielberg to name five Transformers since he is such a big fan.

I like how he is such a big fan that he is allowing them to have Transformers that are unrecognizable to any fan of the franchise.

How about we remake Gremlins but have Gimzo look like a koala bear?

We could redo Back to the Future and have the time machine be a lawn chair with an umbrella (owe that one to the Simpsons).

Perhaps they could remake E.T. and just use an iguana.

Chew on that Spielberg.

Tycho
11-10-2006, 10:09 AM
We could redo Back to the Future and have the time machine be a lawn chair with an umbrella (owe that one to the Simpsons).

I thought you were going to say "a sit-down lawnmower" and have Sandler as The Waterboy star.


Perhaps they could remake E.T. and just use an iguana.

They already did that with Godzilla. ;)

Now what if there was a scene where your Koala Bear - Gremlins bowed and worshipped BumbleBee? It will give the film that cutting-edge Star Wars feel again. :rolleyes:

But maybe that's what they're going for in that scene with the Furbies?

El Chuxter
11-10-2006, 10:38 AM
Why the hatred for Spielberg? The guy could make a film based on "See Dick Run," starring stop-motion dog turds and win a few Oscars for it.

Droid
11-10-2006, 10:49 AM
I love Spielberg, but I find his comments about Transformers disingenuous.

I think we were hearing more from Spielberg the business man than Spielberg the "Transformers fan" or Spielberg the artist.

Tycho
11-10-2006, 11:50 AM
Spielberg has nothing to do with this movie other than an investor's role.

Don Murphy is producing it.

Michael Bay is directing it.

Some guy (who's very talented) but who I've never heard of before, wrote it.

Spielberg is putting his name on it because he doesn't want to lose money, but rather make a ton off of Transformers, so there you go.

El Chuxter
11-10-2006, 11:51 AM
I think we were hearing more from Spielberg the business man....

The side of him that brought us gems like Gremlins and The Goonies?

JediTricks
11-10-2006, 05:07 PM
just when i was ready to turn the corner and be more accepting of the film, i saw the monstrosity that is Toa Bumblebee.Haw! That was an excellent one!


I'd like Spielberg to name five Transformers since he is such a big fan.

I like how he is such a big fan that he is allowing them to have Transformers that are unrecognizable to any fan of the franchise.NICE!!!! Fantastic comment, very good!


How about we remake Gremlins but have Gimzo look like a koala bear?

We could redo Back to the Future and have the time machine be a lawn chair with an umbrella (owe that one to the Simpsons).

Perhaps they could remake E.T. and just use an iguana.

Chew on that Spielberg.
Yeah, or Indiana Jones as a piece of old shoe leather... oh wait. ;)



Why the hatred for Spielberg? The guy could make a film based on "See Dick Run," starring stop-motion dog turds and win a few Oscars for it.Because as an exec producer, he's a bit of a hack, it's hit-or-miss and he hypes projects he has little attachment to, allowing bad men to do bad things.

Plus, his 1941 was poorly received (even though I think it's alright).



Spielberg has nothing to do with this movie other than an investor's role.He claims otherwise.


Don Murphy is producing it.Well, Don Murphy isn't actually listed as producer, but he keeps claiming he is, I don't get that. The list of producers:
Tom "X-men" DeSanto
Lorenzo "Constantine, Doom" di Bonaventura
Ian "The Island, Spider-Man, Howard the Duck" Bryce


Some guy (who's very talented) but who I've never heard of before, wrote it.AHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Written by:
John "Catwoman, The Core" Rogers

and screenplay by:
Roberto "The Legend of Zorro, The Island, both Hercules and Xena shows" Orci
Alex "The Legend of Zorro, The Island, Hercules" Kurtzman

That does not scream "talent" to me.



The side of him that brought us gems like Gremlins and The Goonies?
No, as Exec Producer there he actually was involved, just like with Back to the Future, but once his success was cemented, Spielberg went hands-off with the Back to the Future sequels, Seaquest DSV, We're Back! A Dinosaur's Story, The Flintstones, Casper, Twister, Deep Impact, Jurassic Park 3, Men in Black II, and The Legend of Zorro.

El Chuxter
11-10-2006, 05:13 PM
Wow. Aside from Twister, which was pretty good, and the first Flintstones, which wasn't absolutely unwatchable, that's quite a hall of shame there. :(

I had forgotten the writer of Catwoman was at the helm story-wise. My wife actually tried to watch that movie, and I was in the room. It isn't as bad as they say. It's worse. Much, much worse.

So I'm kinda with this like I am with Ghost Rider now. I love Ghostie, and the film looks beautiful. But the director has two movies under his belt: Simon Birch, quite possibly the worst adaptation of a novel ever made (and so bad John Irving insisted the title be changed from the original book, which is a masterpiece), and Daredevil, the most sucktacular (although not totally wretched) of the current crop of comic book movies (not counting Catwoman, which is so far off the mark that it doesn't count). At Comic-Con two years in a row, I wanted to ask, "Dude, both your movies suck. Why should I watch this one?" But I'm too nice.

Of course, I could think "Simon Birch is one of the worst films ever, and Daredevil was barely watchable. If he keeps improving at this rate, Ghost Rider will be the best movie ever made!"

JediTricks
11-10-2006, 05:25 PM
Ugh, so remember that contest to give Optimus a line in the movie? Well, the results are in, and I'm calling shenanigans on this!
Carl, from Norristown, PA, will see his number-one winning entry – “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” – featured in the upcoming TRANSFORMERS movie.
http://tformers.com/Transformers-%E2%80%93-Make-Prime-Speak-Contest-Winners-Announced/6763/news.html

Wow, gee whiz, that must have been a real ****ing challenge for Carl to come up with, reading it off the back of Optimus Prime's box and all. I mean, it's only been on his bio card for the last 22 years!!! And yet I bet all the "transformers fans" making this movie think Carl there is so original because they are THAT far out of touch with the franchise that they don't know Hasbro wrote it back when most of them were still in grade school.

El Chuxter
11-10-2006, 05:56 PM
Maybe we can suggest that Starscream says something about conquest, maybe the ashes of one's enemies, yadda yadda? Do you think it'd work?

Tycho
11-10-2006, 06:12 PM
I don't find fault with using the bio-quote lines from the original packages. Those originally defined the characters before even the G1 cartoon.

Optimus has a lot of classic lines. They can be used for the sake of being traditional, not original. It sucks that more of this movie isn't traditional, but I think I read the real script they are working from and I liked it.

Autobots: Transform and roll out!

Megatron must be stopped - no matter what the cost.

One shall stand and one shall fall.

Until all are One.

So "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings," works for me. Since 1984 or earlier, it has always been something Optimus Prime would say.

I like Starscream's line: "Conquest is made from the ashes of one's enemies," too.

JediTricks
11-10-2006, 06:18 PM
I don't find fault with using the bio-quote lines from the original packages. Those originally defined the characters before even the G1 cartoon.

Optimus has a lot of classic lines. They can be used for the sake of being traditional, not original. It sucks that more of this movie isn't traditional, but I think I read the real script they are working from and I liked it.

Autobots: Transform and roll out!

Megatron must be stopped - no matter what the cost.

One shall stand and one shall fall.

Until all are One.

So "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings," works for me. Since 1984 or earlier, it has always been something Optimus Prime would say.But Carl of PA didn't come up with the line, that's not a fan-derived line, it's a line created for the franchise years before this project existed. Classic lines are fine, they're just not fan-created and thus don't deserve to win a contest like this. Plus, Don Murphy had suggested that the line was already in the script.

El Chuxter
11-10-2006, 06:20 PM
I'd love to see a battle scene where several Decepticons surprise the Autobots, and then we hear Optimus Prime say, "Well, s***, if I'd known it was gonna be that kind of a party, I'd have stu--

Well, if you're a Beastie Boys fan, you know what comes next.

darthvyn
11-13-2006, 12:46 PM
http://www.newsok.com/article/2969125/

pretty good intereview with peter cullen...

the "make prime speak" contest was stupid from it's inception. the outcome only increases it's stupidity. those pics of bumblebee make me even less enthused about this movie, if that were possible. i think i have -543 enthuses left for this movie after seeing those pics. problem is, i had 0 enthuses after reading the article with peter cullen, as it got my hopes up. then i saw the pics and remembered what they all were going to look like...

Tycho
11-13-2006, 12:57 PM
Thanks Darthvyn! That was a great interview. I've so admired Peter Cullen's work on The Transformers. I think I suspected, but didn't know he also played Ironhide. I hope that tradition is also continued in the new movie. It worked before. I don't see why they'd have to recast Ironhide. You really couldn't tell in the old cartoon series.

In the movie, "Ironhide, I need you to make a special run to Autobot City" and "But Prime!!!" etc. all sounded like it was two completely different guys. So if Cullen has always had conversations with himself, let it continue.

Or do we need a fan petition to case Cullen as Ironhide as well?

darthvyn
11-13-2006, 05:00 PM
Or do we need a fan petition to case Cullen as Ironhide as well?

what do you think? it was the fans and the fans only that got PC into the role of prime to begin with! i doubt they'd let him voice two parts - unless they only pay him enough for one... two for the price of one!

Tycho
11-13-2006, 05:30 PM
i doubt they'd let him voice two parts - unless they only pay him enough for one... two for the price of one!

"That makes make my circuits sizzle! I want to start bashing Decepticreeps!"

But such is the life of voice-actors. They might be hired to play different parts in the same movie. Peter Cullen always was - as he was in the 1986 Transformers movie that many of us just bought a new DVD copy of for its 20th Anniversary.

If there's a lot of work involved, I'm sure he's paid accordingly.

El Chuxter
11-13-2006, 05:51 PM
Fun fact:

Frank Welker played not only Megatron, but also Frenzy, Rumble, Soundwave, Ravage, Skywarp, and (I think) Reflector.

Tycho
11-13-2006, 05:54 PM
Whoa! Rumble? He had the most diverse lines of any of these characters from Megatron! He sounds kind of like a New York punk to me (Rumble that is).

Soundwave could be many people electronically altered.

The others rarely had any lines, but I heard in Welker's interview, that he did animal noises, so I believe he'd have been a top choice for Ravage.

Pretty cool. Thanks for the fun facts, Chux!

Rocketboy
11-13-2006, 08:09 PM
http://fatasiancowboy.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=29

JediTricks
11-15-2006, 03:15 PM
http://fatasiancowboy.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=29
Do they offer that one as a large mural which can be painted outside Bay's Santa Monica production offices? :p

CaptainSolo1138
11-15-2006, 08:55 PM
Damn you RB. I was gonna post the same thing. You gorillamask.net readin' fool. That's the last time I share a website with you. :mad:

Tycho
11-26-2006, 05:58 PM
MAJOR SPOILER PICTURE OF SCORPONOK'S FINISHED FORM IN ACTION!

OK, you've been warned with very large boldface type so I'm not going to put the rest in invisible type:

This is from the opening sequence of the movie when "Instruments of Destruction" attack and Scorponok, Blackout (especially), and Soundwave wipe out a whole United States military base in Qatar (MiddleEast ally of the US on the Arabian Sea Coast). It gets bloody. I would't mind if they skipped the kids' audience approach and made this R-rated and done "Saving Private Ryan-style." It is a brutal attack ordered by Starscream. Those of you who read the script that we've all been arguing over will recognize this scene.


..."To ashes we transform!

Instruments of Destruction!
Fueled with fire and with pain
A final state of corruption
Decepticons to blame!"

You know, I never did really get all the lyrics NRG was screaming, but I love that song!

El Chuxter
11-26-2006, 07:48 PM
I thought it was

"A final state of corruption
Existence slips away"?

And that picture confirms again that this movie is carp. I knew Scorponok. I saw him wrest control of the Decepticons from Ratbat, and accept Optimus Prime's surrender. I watched as he realized he was, at heart, a good soul, and died fighting Unicron.

That, sir, is not Scorponok.

DarkArtist
11-27-2006, 07:35 AM
I thought it was:

Instruments of Destruction
Tools of Fould Play
It's a Violent Corruption
Systems stripped away

DarkArtist
11-27-2006, 07:51 AM
I just found the lyrics to Instruments of Destruction:

Iron Birds of Fortune
Adrift Above the Skies
Cloudy Revelations
Unseen by naked eyes
flying tools of torment
will penetrate the sphere
erupt the rock of ages
bringing final fear

Instruments of Destruction
tools of powerplays
it's a violent eruption
existence drips away

what it really matter
when nothing really counts
grave eternal darkness
when drained of every once
and when the nightmare's over
the final from the storm
dust of all creation
to ashes we transform

Instruments of Destruction
tools of powerplays
it's a violent eruption
existence drips away.

El Chuxter
11-27-2006, 08:34 AM
Okay, we're all off. But I knew it didn't mention Decepticons.

Whatever happened to NRG?

Tycho
11-27-2006, 02:06 PM
NRG was probably a wanna-be heavy metal band (who did happen to be very talented) but who played this to raise their visibility.

Judas Priest or Iron Maiden, etc. were not going to do Transformer cartoon songs I guess. (Unfortunate for them, because they missed out on being a subculture phenomenon).

I personally love NRG, Spectre General, and Lion, the main bands that perform on the Transformers soundtrack besides Stan Bush and Wierd Al. Of course Vince DiCola's great as usual.

But these "b-bands" seemed like one or two-hit wonders. Where was Twisted Sister or Quiet Riot? Those were sort of "b-band acts" with one or two major record label successes, as well.

But I'm glad it was NRG and so forth. The lead singer's got a great heavy metal voice and makes it sound like Starscream was singing the lyrics while he was killing things!

DARK ARTIST: thanks a bunch for posting the lyrics! Good job man.

El Chuxter
11-27-2006, 02:33 PM
Spectre General was, as I recall, the only act who appeared courtesy of another label (Pasha). (Weird Al was already signed to Scotti Bros Records at the time.)

DarkArtist
11-27-2006, 02:37 PM
DARK ARTIST: thanks a bunch for posting the lyrics! Good job man.

Hey no problem, I too have always been curious as to what they sing. Actually was watching the movie the other day.

JediTricks
11-27-2006, 07:54 PM
Boy does that look like butt! I can see why so many comments on other sites are comparing that shot to Starship Troopers. Personally, I just think it doesn't look like a Transformer.

Tycho
11-27-2006, 09:47 PM
Personally, I just think it doesn't look like a Transformer.

Scorponok's not as far as I can tell. I read the script that many of us here have, and nowhere does it mention him transforming into anything else. He just is a mechanical scorpion and no explanation for that is given.

El Chuxter
11-28-2006, 08:50 AM
Because there are lots of giant robot scorpions lying around, waiting to be imbued with life. :rolleyes:

JediTricks
11-28-2006, 04:36 PM
It doesn't look like a robot much either, it just looks like a crazy CGI space bug.

JediTricks
12-04-2006, 02:48 PM
It just keeps getting worse and worse!

Ratchet bot mode art:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=116584

To me, Ratchet looks more like a car wreck stood upright than any of the others, which is saying a lot since all the Autobots we've seen so far look that way to some degree. My first thought on seeing the image was "someone barfed up a car", there's no elegance about this design that I can see, it's just parts strewn everywhere because they have to be.

Tycho
12-04-2006, 05:51 PM
The Predator had an abortion. :bandit:

JediTricks
12-04-2006, 09:37 PM
More looks at Trashformers Optimus Prime, Megatron, and Bumblebee:

http://www.jalopnik.com/photogallery/BayTransformers/

The images are a little messed up, and I dunno why Megatron is in several pieces.

Tycho
12-04-2006, 11:11 PM
Megatron is not in several pieces. Both pieces have a head, which you can barely discern thanks to this "art," but it looks like two different takes of Megatron in one frame for some reason.

I've just been looking at these spoiler images for a while, so while I may not be thrilled with them, I am quite familiar with them.

mabudonicus
12-05-2006, 04:47 PM
Looks like PREDAKINGs head on there, too, another suckalicious POS in the ongoing slow-mo trainwreck that IS the TF movie
:beard:Isobaws&

JediTricks
12-06-2006, 02:53 PM
More Trashformers images:

Optimus & Barricade CGI:
http://www.harbx.com/archives/2006/12/barricade_early.html
http://www.harbx.com/archives/2006/12/optimus_prime_e.html

Scorponok toy painted sample:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280057587612

First, Barricade: why does every robot in this film have to look like it got smashed in a car crusher???

Second, Scorponok: holy crap that looks awful! That goofy face and cheap transformation are ridiculous.

General_Grievous
12-06-2006, 04:53 PM
Well, this movie's sure to win an Oscar....:rolleyes:

Optimus looks like pure @$$

mabudonicus
12-07-2006, 09:07 AM
Damn, yeah, Scorponok is almost hilarious lookin- reminds me of some o' them cheap robot toys from the 80's, the ones that were somehow crappier than Go-Bots- WAIT no, the face reminds me of Ro-Gun from the gobots in fact, what a pice of carp :beard:Isobaws&

Tycho
12-07-2006, 01:20 PM
And Scorponok wins the dead Onion Award!

This is by far the worst image I've seen from the entire Transformers fiasco - and that IS saying something!

BanthaPoodoo
12-07-2006, 03:58 PM
How anyone can screw up a mega-franchise like transformers is beyone me.

This movie has gone to hell quickly... looks like a film I'll be sure to miss til rental time, and even then I'll let someone else rent it & borrow it from them....

DarkArtist
12-08-2006, 10:30 AM
I might still go see this flick in the theater but perhaps I might wait till have the DVD release. Huge Optimus Prime fan but can't stand the way he looks in the film. reminds me a over steriod using C-3PO "Oh My Goodness....My parts are showing."

JediTricks
12-08-2006, 08:34 PM
How anyone can screw up a mega-franchise like transformers is beyone me.That's the $200,000,000 question, isn't it? It appears to be ego, Bay wants to do a family franchise and wants to do a movie about aliens, but really doesn't want to do a Transformers movie.

Tycho
12-08-2006, 09:23 PM
That's the $200,000,000 question, isn't it? It appears to be ego, Bay wants to do a family franchise and wants to do a movie about aliens, but really doesn't want to do a Transformers movie.

Then why is he doing Transformers in the first place?

How much control does the director have anyway? Designers create the look for Prime, BumbleBee, etc. The writers forge a story and a script.

Does Bay get to approve / reject concepts for Prime, etc?

What role does Don Murphy play in this? He hires the guys to design etc, right? So did he audition the artists who designed Megatron, etc?

I don't think Murphy nor Bay are True-Transformers Fans.

They should have hired the original staff from 1984, but given them the big budget and support of the effects house.

Would Peter Cullen or Frank Welker balk at the script if they thought it was really bad? (probably not - we don't know that they were real fans either - just proud they did a very memorable job.)

JediTricks
12-09-2006, 06:46 PM
Then why is he doing Transformers in the first place?I really don't know, he said he even turned it down initially until Spielberg called him up and assured him he could do it his way.


How much control does the director have anyway? Designers create the look for Prime, BumbleBee, etc. The writers forge a story and a script. Does Bay get to approve / reject concepts for Prime, etc?In general, there's no 1 level of control a director has, it depends on how well his previous movies have done, how much of a risk the project is, how much money the studio is putting into the project, and a lot of other industry factors. Bay seems to have quite a bit of control over this project, he's a power player and he's one of the film's executive producers, he's been very hands-on in the artistic element approval process I hear.


What role does Don Murphy play in this? He hires the guys to design etc, right? So did he audition the artists who designed Megatron, etc?The film has a ton of producers and Murphy's basic role was merely that he was the guy who bought the rights to do the movie from Hasbro. Originally, Murphy wanted to do not Transformers but a GI Joe movie, but apparently the start of the Iraq war made that idea unpalatable so he jumped to TF. Murphy brought in Tom DeSanto to work with him in preproduction and a year later Dreamworks bought the project off Murphy. At this point, Murphy seems to be the hype-man for the film and is not a credited producer, I don't think he's heavily involved in the decisionmaking for anything that we'll be seeing onscreen but I could be mistaken.


I don't think Murphy nor Bay are True-Transformers Fans. Bay made it clear he doesn't care at all about Transformers, his motivations for making this movie were about the family franchise thing and about making the giant scary aliens movie thing. Murphy's motivations seem to be exploiting an '80s classic toy icon for a big-budget movie, I am not sure if he's at all a fan or just savvy to what folks would want to see right now.


They should have hired the original staff from 1984, but given them the big budget and support of the effects house. Totally disagree, this movie needs to be done by someone who understands the cinematic medium, can tell a 2-hour story, and has love for the brand without being so tied down to it that they are bogged down by particulars the mainstream audience wouldn't give a crap about. Bay is not that man.


Would Peter Cullen or Frank Welker balk at the script if they thought it was really bad? (probably not - we don't know that they were real fans either - just proud they did a very memorable job.)Frank Welker makes his living voicing every awful cartoon, most of the characters he does now adays are just animal sounds, he's the go-to guy for that. Much of Peter Cullen's work lately has been the most banal Transformers cartoons of all time yet he still belts out lines even when they're CLEARLY written wrong. Neither of them are going to turn their noses up at what they believe is a shoddy script.

Tycho
12-09-2006, 08:33 PM
I really don't know, he said he even turned it down initially until Spielberg called him up and assured him he could do it his way.
Great Spielberg. Thanks a million....:upset:


Bay seems to have quite a bit of control over this project, he's a power player and he's one of the film's executive producers, he's been very hands-on in the artistic element approval process I hear.

Does he realize how many new enemies he's making?


The film has a ton of producers and Murphy's basic role was merely that he was the guy who bought the rights to do the movie from Hasbro. Originally, Murphy wanted to do not Transformers but a GI Joe movie, but apparently the start of the Iraq war made that idea unpalatable so he jumped to TF.

So is Cobra Commander a Sunni or a Shiite? ;)

Meanwhile, is Murphy just sticking around to convine Dreamworks they bought into a good sale?


Bay made it clear he doesn't care at all about Transformers, his motivations for making this movie were about the family franchise thing and about making the giant scary aliens movie thing.

I'm curious to see his direct responses (and lack of respect) towards Transformers fans. I suppose I just want to have reason to hate him more. Yes, I've mentioned I like the script. It's actually decent, if I read the real thing. However, there are very bad elements in it and if a True-Transformers Fan was making this picture, they'd have canned those portions of it.


Murphy's motivations seem to be exploiting an '80s classic toy icon for a big-budget movie, I am not sure if he's at all a fan or just savvy to what folks would want to see right now.

Much of this is NOT what we want to see, though. Murphy has his head up his ***, we told him so, and he retorted "No it's not!" :rolleyes:

It's a shame about Welker and Cullen really. They are the main "actors" that are going to drive a lot of us in to see this picture.

Droid
12-10-2006, 01:56 PM
I wish Hasbro would tell them that these don't look like Transformers and won't make good toys.

Tycho
12-10-2006, 02:29 PM
Hasbro made the toys which look like approximations barely reminiscient of the Bay movie designs. There's no way to make authentic toys out of the movie characters unless you're talking about Master Replicas making $1,000+ installments with about as many moving parts and a transformation that would take you nearly a year to figure out.

That's the huge thing Michael Bay doesn't get: this is a movie inspired by a toy line - thus the characters should look real, but like they could be translated into toys.

Or Michael Bay gets it - but he just wants to do an alien invasion movie with giant shape-shifters based on silicon lifeforms and doesn't give a crap that he got this project from a traditional toy line. He should have been making ID4 Part 2 if that's what he wanted to do.

I know: he wanted a family-movie-franchise. Well why not Harry & The Hendersons' sequels?

Sam Raimi and Bryan Singer know how to respect licensed material they usurp for their movies - and they do quite well with it (that's an understatement!)

Bay actually has a good story idea in the script (I could do without the "More than meets the eye" references repeatedly - once would be funny - every human character repeating it? No thanks.) But a G1 fan could root out some very bad elements (Megatron and Prime's relationship, the "Energon Cube" - even the very concept of anything save but the Matrix, Starscream's banishment to obscurity in the script, and so forth -oh and Mikaela - should be Carly unless Spike is going to have a different girlfriend each movie - a 'Bot Girl if you will - hehe: I think I'm really creative coining that term 'Bot Girl :) )

This still has a chance of being really good. I waver with each report and leaked bit of info or design footage.

I do think that this is the most-complained about movie to hit negative criticism before its release in the history of the motion picture business. We are over 7 months before the film's release and hating on this movie like it was already after Godzilla's release! (I liked Godzilla and The Hulk though, btw).

But I think they'd have to make a movie about Osama Bin Laden's early childhood to top the animosity directed towards this project. Did The Last Temptation of Christ gather so much angst?

El Chuxter
12-11-2006, 10:53 AM
I know: he wanted a family-movie-franchise. Well why not Harry & The Hendersons' sequels?

HELL YEAH!!!

I'd be first in line. As long as Lithgow came back.

JediTricks
12-11-2006, 03:09 PM
Michael Bay's Harry & The Hendersons - Bigfoot's Revenge!

The tale of an angry Bigfoot who comes back from the woods to exact his revenge on the family who ran him over with their car. And Harry is not alone, he's gathered up the Bigfoot army to ensure that no humans will ever run them over again by destroying civilization. The Hendersons in their new Dodge Charger are chased by 17 Bigfoot-driven souped-up H2 Hummers and 2007 Ford Mustangs, while the Bigfoot army destroys town after town, making sure to salvage the radio stations playing thundering popular rock music.

El Chuxter
12-11-2006, 03:14 PM
That's about as true to the spirit of H&TH as this fiasco is true to the spirit of the Transformers. :p

JediTricks
12-11-2006, 03:18 PM
That's about as true to the spirit of H&TH as this fiasco is true to the spirit of the Transformers. :p
Well, that was sorta the point. :D You should see Bay's All-CG Harry... he's got tentacles instead of arms and legs, he's now a Bigfoot in name only, giant hairy insectoid octopus. ;)

Tycho
12-11-2006, 04:53 PM
JT, thanks for that wonderful laugh! Seriously. That was funny. lol

Jedi_Master_Guyute
12-15-2006, 12:10 AM
First official pic is up.

Guys running from a Transformeresque thing. I dunno.

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808716430/photo/970420325

El Chuxter
12-15-2006, 08:55 AM
It's obviously a musical! Two of those guys are singing!!

JediTricks
12-15-2006, 09:02 PM
That was posted about 3 weeks ago, and I think Scorponok looks a tad silly in it, the big bug eyes.

Tycho
12-17-2006, 04:18 PM
Don Murphy says the trailer will be online at the official movie site on Wednesday.

What will they show?

In 1998, the trailer for Godzilla never showed the giant Iguana. I liked that movie, but she was a giant Iguana, the truth be told.

So in 2006, what will the first full Transformers movie trailer show?

- Optimus Prime - that would be a good idea, especially him transforming. If we all saw that in the trailer, and it looked good, it would not deter us from going to the theater on July 4, but rather encourage it into a frenzy. Peter Cullen's voice-over in the trailer would seal the deal.

- BumbleBee - he's really the Autobot star of the film, so I wouldn't be surprised.

- Ironhide, Ratchet, Jazz - maybe, but less likely.

-Megatron - very likely, as he's the main villain. A voice-over will be saying, "One ring to rule them all..." - Oh, wrong movie. I don't believe Frank Welker has recorded his voice overs yet, so I don't think we'll hear him speak.

- Starscream - maybe shots of a fighter jet. His part is too minimal as it is.

- Soundwave - probably - because he has a lot of interaction with humans and ups the Decepticon threat level. He's also disguised such that he's not originating from a vehicle where you'd look for him.

- Blackout - likely. He's unimportant to the larger story, but very threatening and visually enticing.

- Brawl - ditto. They'll at least show that tank.

- Bonecrusher - Nah. I don't think he'll stand as that interesting.

- Barricade - Yes. I think at least as the Police Car so that a car chase is shown in the trailer - as this is often a movie staple. Hollywood long forgot that cars are used for transportation and only thinks of them in terms of big chase sequences, right?

- Scorponok - Yes, the first official picture of the CGI characters in the film features him and I think they'll show that scene in motion to drive home the fact that these are aliens and not factory-built Terminators.

- Megan Fox (Mikaela) - absolutely. Her presense will add the subliminal thought of "sex" to that of "violence," thereby sealing the recipe for success in American cinema. I mean, why else is Spike's main side-kick he chooses to spend time with not a bed-wetting nerd that still plays with Power Rangers in high school? - Because Megan Fox is more interesting.

- Shie LeBieuf (Sam Witwicky, aka "Spike") - of course. General audience members are going to be humans and thus relate to humans. The movie producers had no idea that a bunch of pathological individuals who are going to see this actually might wish they were Autobots or Decepticons.

- Josh Dumahel (soldier) - sure. He's becoming a name in Hollywood (sort of) and they can't miss a chance to embarass him. This will be one step above Teletubies: The Movie for his emerging career.

- John Voight (Secretary of Defense) - he's more popular than Rumsfeld and he's Angelina Jolie's father. Who cares if what he has to do with this movie only goes so far as a "B-Character."

Various other human actors - if only to show that "Gee: Transformers are tall."

Anyway, this might be awesome or it might be the final nail in the coffin for a lot of us. It could also support or debunk that so-called script we've all been reading.

We'll see.

Wednesday.

Tycho
12-20-2006, 02:29 AM
Try here, at 10am PST (that's in 9hours 30 minutes from the time of this post): MARK!

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/transformers.html

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 03:20 AM
No need to wait, the British site has it up now:

http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/transformers/

I don't have the Vivo plugin so I can only view the small version.

I am going to hold my comments till tomorrow.

Tycho
12-20-2006, 07:53 AM
My take on it:

It looks like an awesome robot invasion movie, but not a Transformers movie per se. There are obvious elements - Optimus Prime was recognizeable - and huge. That was BumbleBee and Ratchet pulling up to him as he transformed.
Their cars were miniscule next to his Autobot form.

The trailer lacked any Transformer voice talent speaking, like Peter Cullen, who they could have at least had a voice-over for the trailer done with.

I take it (from the script) that "the thing" getting out of the pool by the little girl was Ironhide. I need to pause it, but I'm like: WTF?! And since Cullen was the original voice of Ironhide - another missed opportunity for a voice in there, though as far as I remember, at this early juncture, they (SPOILER NOT REVEALED - but most of you guys read that comedy stunt).

The attack in Qatar looks to be very violent and very bloody. That's cool if you ask me. It's time to stop having Decepticons be "Nice Guys" by shooting everything and not killing anybody (or hitting anyone mortally for that matter save for a 1986 toy commercial movie). Michael Bay does not include Rodimus, so be thankful for small favors.

As a trailer goes, I still wanted more. But this is shaping up to be a very unique movie I'll go see as soon as I can. The realism is something I always wanted out of a Transformers movie.

By the way, there's no way in hell they'll make accurate toys out of these 'Bot-Cons'.

DarkArtist
12-20-2006, 08:46 AM
I don't know, I am undecided about whether I will see it in the theaters or wait for a general rental release. Some parts did look good, so will have to wait and see more before I make a decision.

seanmcfripp
12-20-2006, 12:29 PM
Sweet, My Little Pony is in the movie!

Tycho
12-20-2006, 02:47 PM
Sweet, My Little Pony is in the movie!

What? Where did you get that?

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 03:52 PM
US trailer is up, in WMV and Quicktime, Quicktime also is offered in large HD formats (which my system doesn't have enough v-ram to play smoothly :( ), it's the same trailer as the link above but bigger: http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/transformers.html



How can this trailer be so generic? Even for Bay, this was cut so fast that it screams to be analyzed frame by frame rather than watched as a trailer. I guess when you make a generic CGI movie, you get a generic trailer that is meant to throw a lot of quick stuff at you so you don't see anything. I really don't feel anything for those robots, it seems like the most flavorless, high-priced summer popcorn fare that Hollywood pukes out year after year, at this point it all starts to look the same. I'll give Bay this, it doesn't look like a toy movie, it looks like another sci-fi blockbuster - too bad Transformers are based on a toy line and this appears to have nothing to do with it.

I hope one day something which Michael Bay adores is ruined by a pompous, self-important, egomaniacal hack, he can watch it get turned into generic commercial blockbuster fare without a shred of personality beneath the surface.

This trailer speaks more to what Bay does NOT want to do with the Transformers franchise than what he does, and the end result is a trailer that looks more like it wants to be 2005's "War of the Worlds" than "Transformers" - good thing Spielberg's the co-exec or he might have gotten huffy. There's no question this looks like an expensive production, and with those rapid-fire cuts and signature shots and over-the-top explosions there's no question this is a Michael Bay film, but none of that says "Transformers".

The age of being dazzled by just any old ILM-brand CGI robot is years behind us, there has to be substance and meaning behind them, both of which are built into the Transformers franchise yet both are being systematically abandoned in favor of Bay's self-indulgent vision - a vision of a huge-budget sci-fi/horror/disaster film about humans being terrorized by big, scary, unrecognizable robots that are formed from an explosion of disguise-mode fragments. Transformers are not a tangled mass of tiny pieces all moving around to loosely form a bizarre alien metal bulk, they are not unstoppable killing machines limited only to how humans perceive them, they are not simply horrors from beyond the stars, and they are not supposed to be "reimagined" by someone with admitted ulterior motives and no respect for the essence of these characters or this franchise.

Why is it that the question "which is more important for the story, the Transformers or Michael Bay's ego?" ended up going the wrong way?

TrashFormers: Less than Meets the Eye



What? Where did you get that?The little girl by the pool is holding a pink stuffed horse.

Tycho
12-20-2006, 04:14 PM
I agree with all JediTricks had to say. That still doesn't mean this will be a bad movie. However it was a bad trailer (or at least it will be if it was not followed up by an in-Transformers universe PLOT trailer - such as Prime ordering the Autobots that "we must recover the Matrix and protect human life." Something that screams "story" instead of "big robots! and that's it."

The "awe trailer" has been done. Fine. Next a "plot trailer" must be joined with it before (and long before) the movie comes out. Peter Cullen must talk in the trailer, too.


this was cut so fast that it screams to be analyzed frame by frame rather than watched as a trailer.

Yup.


I really don't feel anything for those robots,

Exactly, and from the script many of us read, BumbleBee has some "pet E.T. moments," and that would've been a selling point for the story, too. Remember "a boy and his car idea" that Bay was at one point talking about?


too bad Transformers are based on a toy line and this appears to have nothing to do with it.

Agreed.


The age of being dazzled by just any old ILM-brand CGI robot is years behind us, there has to be substance and meaning behind them, both of which are built into the Transformers franchise yet both are being systematically abandoned in favor of Bay's self-indulgent vision - a vision of a huge-budget sci-fi/horror/disaster film about humans being terrorized by big, scary, unrecognizable robots that are formed from an explosion of disguise-mode fragments.

The trailer presents it this way. Maybe the movie, if it follows the script we read, will not.


Transformers are not .....unstoppable killing machines limited only to how humans perceive them,

Didn't we see 3 films with Arnold Schwarzeneggar about that already? Let me guess: Starscream will fly off at the end and say "I'll be back." :rolleyes:

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Heh heh, I think I'm so clever, I came up with this on another site:

Bay's T-shirt should read "GIANT F***ING ROBOT SET-PIECES ARE GOING TO BE SOULLESS EYE-CANDY!"

Transformers is about, get this, Transformers characters and their stories, not about how the Titanic crashed into The Towering Inferno on Independence Day before getting eaten by Godzilla. All the shiny ILM graphics aren't going to change that.


That still doesn't mean this will be a bad movie.It does mean it'll be a bad TRANSFORMERS movie though. And I'm still convinced that with Bay at the helm, it'll be a bad movie through and through even if it wasn't using the Hasbro franchise at all, the man has done less to inspire confidence in the art of moviemaking than any other big-budget director of our time.


or at least it will be if it was not followed up by an in-Transformers universe PLOT trailer - such as Prime ordering the Autobots that "we must recover the Matrix and protect human life." Something that screams "story" instead of "big robots! and that's it."

The "awe trailer" has been done. Fine. Next a "plot trailer" must be joined with it before (and long before) the movie comes out.Don't hold your breath, they're talking March for a longer trailer, and who knows if it'll have any more lines than this one - there were what, 2 lines of dialogue, none of them from the robots or even talking TO the robots.


Exactly, and from the script many of us read, BumbleBee has some "pet E.T. moments," and that would've been a selling point for the story, too. Remember "a boy and his car idea" that Bay was at one point talking about?Oh goody, because ET was able to communicate clearly with Elliot so well, and people really treat their pets as equals. Transformers are supposed to be PEOPLE - aliens yes, robots yes, but they're also supposed to be feeling, expressive, empathetic people. Even ET's face was expressive and lent itself to audience-empathy, I'm not seeing how that'll be possible with these movie bot faces.


Didn't we see 3 films with Arnold Schwarzeneggar about that already? Let me guess: Starscream will fly off at the end and say "I'll be back." :rolleyes:I didn't see Terminator 3, from what I hear nobody wanted him back after seeing it. But what you're saying is what T1 was, and it worked for what it was there but the movie was a limited sci-fi/horror flick. Yet in T2 they knew the story couldn't hold up if the Terminator was just a killing machine again, that's why T2 has so much more depth and approchability for the audience, the Terminator pulls a Pinocchio and becomes a real person which makes it interesting.

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 06:08 PM
When a French auto maker can do better Transformers than Bay's movie, you know something is wrong with Hollywood: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVvkoCKR7I

DarthBrandon
12-20-2006, 06:30 PM
When a French auto maker can do better Transformers than Bay's movie, you know something is wrong with Hollywood: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVvkoCKR7I

Yeah, looks like I'm going to save money on this one (going to blow chunks big time IMHO)

JediTricks
12-21-2006, 02:59 PM
Here ya go Tycho, this one's for you, play the attached .wav file. That's Prime's voice from the end of the trailer on the Transformers movie website: http://www.transformersmovie.com/ (same trailer, but after Ironhide gets out of the pool you hear that.)

El Chuxter
12-21-2006, 03:04 PM
...after Ironhide gets out of the pool...

Those seven words sum up why I'm so apathetic about this movie, I've not even bothered to watch the trailer.

:rolleyes:

Tycho
12-21-2006, 03:09 PM
Thanks JT. That was Peter Cullen? His voice seems higher pitched in his older age.

I take it that was a voice-over as it has nothing to do with Ironhide taking a swim?

I've been watching that trailer over and over again. I realized that I've been waiting for this kind of Transformers movie (let's use that term liberally because I still might want to lynch Michael Bay), since I was like 10 years old!

I really hope this movie approaches what we all wanted to see.

HOW ABOUT THIS IDEA?

In movies 2 & 3, they look more G1 because:

- they're on earth and they interact with more humans, thus take on more human faces that we're all familiar with - it would make sense both in that progression, and that they are more alien when they arrive.

Tycho
12-21-2006, 03:14 PM
Those seven words sum up why I'm so apathetic about this movie, I've not even bothered to watch the trailer.

:rolleyes:

Chux, Ironhide wasn't swimming laps. That would be cheating on his fitness anyway since he's nearly the length of the entire pool as it is. What, one stroke and he's across the length of any backyard pool except maybe Michael Jackson's.

Autobots don't generally go swimming unless they turn into boats like Broadside, SeaSpray, etc. Ironhide crashed there. I don't think he likes the water.

G1 Ironhide would say "Leaking lubricants! This is going to rust my new coat of wax," in Peter Cullen's approximation of a Southern drawl of course.

JediTricks
12-21-2006, 03:14 PM
That is Peter Cullen reading the line that won the (rigged?) fan contest to be in the movie. I don't think it's pitched higher than any of his other readings, it seems spot on, though I did notice the "s" sound in "beings" is the tiniest bit slurred, possibly from his older age or maybe just something funky on the read that the mixing engineer missed.

Yeah, it's a voice-over from when the Autobot logo is on the screen.

El Chuxter
12-21-2006, 03:17 PM
How about a movie where they come from Cybertron several million years ago and are revived in the present day? Where Optimus Prime is a truck, Bumblebee is a Volkswagen, Jazz is a Porsche, Megatron is a gun, and Starscream is a jet? Where Energon is a power source, not a mystical mumbo-jumbo piece of garbage?

That's the Transformers movie I want to see.

Right now, from what I'm seeing and hearing, only one thing could possibly redeem this movie: if it ends with Prime deciding to keep his Autobots stationed on Earth, but he requests reinforcements. Right before the end credits roll (to the tune of Lion's version of the theme song), a large, burly Autobot steps out of a space bridge (or shuttle, but under no circumstances should he be a frigging meteorite), and says, "Me Grimlock kick butt!"

Seriously. That has to 100% be the ending for me to like this. Otherwise this movie will suck so bad I'm not even going to make a Slicker's Mom joke about how badly it will suck.

Tycho
12-21-2006, 03:24 PM
Chux, you misquoted Grimlock. He'd say "Me Grimlock. ME kick butt!"

How could you?

Anyway, if the Dinobots are to appear, I want Wheeljack entered into the story to help (with Ratchet) to create them. That's the way the story goes.

As to the rest, the Autobots think (at least believe) that Cybertron was destroyed. They will make a temporary base on earth at the end of Episode 1. The Decepticons are vanquished and Starscream's the last one that was left of the movie guys, though I'm sure Megatron will be back.

But Prime will get reinforcements (remember 1 of his 5 is killed) as will Starscream - hence movie 2.

El Chuxter
12-21-2006, 03:56 PM
You're assuming that Transformers #2 is a sure thing. All the fans I know of except for you seem to hate everything they've seen, and it sounds different enough from any incarnation of TF to alienate more casual viewers who remember Transformers from their childhood.

I might disagree with a lot of folks as to whether any of the post-G1 versions are any good, or whether there are such things as MiniCons and sparks, but there is one thing I think we can all agree on: every successful incarnation has been very character-driven. We expect these robots to act like humans, to develop as characters over the course of the story. It's not just a bunch of big robots fighting and turning into things. If it were, we may as well be discussing a major motion picture based on Gobots, or Convertors, or Machine-Robo Series, or any of the other few dozen lines of transforming robots from the 80s.

Of course, a film has to be different from a cartoon or comic book. You don't have 84 issues or four seasons to tell the story. You have between 90 and 180 minutes (usually closer to 90). So you have to make changes.

That said, though, there are things that are "sacred" (for lack of a better word). The leader of the good guys is always a powerful intellectual named Optimus Prime (or some variation, like Rodimus Prime or Optimus Primal). The evil leader is usually a psychotic maniac called Megatron (though this can change even in the course of one storyline, since another constant is his minions being some of the most treacherous SOBs ever created). There's always a free-wheeling hero, often young and inexperienced, or infatuated with Earth, though the name varies widely (Jazz, Hot Rod, Hot Shot, Cheetor). The second-in-command villain is almost always called Starscream, and every character named Starscream has been practically identical: vain, ruthless, conniving, a little cowardly, and--above all--a dirty, rotten traitor (though he can never take charge for very long).

Some names tend to pop up quite often, like Ultra Magnus, Dinobot, Predacon, Unicron, Grimlock, Bonecrusher, Rhinox, Scorponok, Laserbeak, Smokescreen, etc.

I could go on and on. But I'm sure you get the point.

Of course, I'd be an idiot to say that some changes wouldn't have to be made, or (loathe though I am to say it) that compromises between the various continuities would have to be made to produce a feature film to appeal to as many people as possible. But change and condense no more than is necessary.

Let's use X-Men as an example (the first two; the less said about X3, the better). In the comics and earlier cartoons, Rogue was never a teenager in school with Iceman. Pyro was never an X-Man. Magneto never tried to use Rogue's powers to change everyone on Earth into a mutant.

But the changes were made in the context of a film that was extremely true to the spirit of the comics. A group of reluctant superheroes, banded together by Professor Xavier, all with their personal demons, protecting a human world that hates them from those who would use the same powers for selfish reasons, all worked into a subtle metaphor for race relations in the real world.

But there are a lot of changes here that seem to have absolutely no reason, other than to "look cool" or function as clumsy deux-ex-machina devices. A lot of the names are the same, and a lot of the alt forms are similar. And, yeah, Peter Cullen is voicing Prime, and they say they came from Cybertron.

Beyond that, I'm seeing very little that's consistent with the original spirit of any Transformers toyline, cartoon, or comic.

And, by the way, right before attacking Unicron in the only Transformers movie I feel lives up to that name, Grimlock says, "Me Grimlock kick butt!" I've seen disagreement on the punctuation, or even the number of sentences there. But there's no "me" between "Grimlock" and "kick." :p

Tycho
12-21-2006, 07:37 PM
Well, 'Ol Chuxter scored a few off Tycho there! Hehe.

I will not dare challenge him on Grimlock's dialogue any more.

I also think (Chux) that your points are very clear and valid. I'm waiting to see if Michael Bay has all but ignored them, or not.

Now that I've discussed the trailer with a lot of people, most think that this is still a teaser set to demonstrate that this is the first time humans will see Transformers and the Decepticons pose a crisis that our species must survive. A later teaser (March) will offer personalities, characters to the robots, and a deeper plot presentation for the story, else it remain representative as only a special effects show. That perception being possible given what's out there now, I'm not sure this was the best possible trailer to show in light of the fact that there is plot to the film, and personality to the characters.

I forgot if you (Chuxter) read the script that's out there or not? Please fill us in.

Droid
12-22-2006, 01:06 PM
I'm not sure I can say anything more than what has already been said. The trailer reinforced the fact that I will not see this movie. What a pile of garbage.

El Chuxter
12-22-2006, 01:20 PM
I forgot if you (Chuxter) read the script that's out there or not? Please fill us in.

Nah. I was going to, but comments about "cute ET moments of Spike hiding Bumblebee" and references to Bumblebee repeatedly pooping on people kind of killed it for me.

Tycho
12-22-2006, 01:40 PM
BumbleBee doesn't "poop" on anyone. I think he sprays oil lubricant on some government bureaucrat - but that's a Kodak moment in any motion picture.

In any case, I'll send you a copy Chuxter, if you e-mail me. I think you might like it were it not for Bionicles acting out these parts and whatever misguided reason for Optimus Prime and Megatron's personal relationship.

You'll also see the trailer did not do the substance in this story justice - and for whatever reason, let's hope they start calling "The Energon Cube" by the name "Matrix" or something, as whatever they're after, it's no common Energon Cube.

General_Grievous
12-22-2006, 05:15 PM
I actually laughed at the trailer. Scorponok reminded me of the big robot from the Power Rangers movie some ten years ago.

El Chuxter
12-22-2006, 05:57 PM
Wow, uh, that was... mediocre.

The "Bionicle" comparisons seem so much more a problem now than they were before. Ironhide looks especially turderrific.

All in all, it looks like a brainless action film, which is what most of us are sick of comic and cartoon adaptations being turned into.

And someone should tell Mr Cullen that the pronunciation is "sen-chuhnt" and not "sen-tee-uhnt." I can't believe no one at Dreamworks caught that.

Tycho
12-22-2006, 06:15 PM
And someone should tell Mr Cullen that the pronunciation is "sen-chuhnt" and not "sen-tee-uhnt." I can't believe no one at Dreamworks caught that.

I didn't know that either, Professor Chux. Thank you for the English lesson.

But remember, Prime speaks English with a Cybertronian accent. :pleased:

El Chuxter
12-23-2006, 06:36 PM
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, but, seriously, with as many people as are involved in the making of a movie trailer, someone should've noticed something.

Tycho
12-23-2006, 08:39 PM
It wasn't annoying, Chux. I stand in awe next to you and JediTricks both with your superior knowledge of Transformers.

I'm like Hot Rod next to your Sky Lynx and Perceptor.

Wait a sec. I think I just insulted myself....