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El Chuxter
12-24-2006, 10:10 AM
Well, Hot Rod is cooler than Perceptor. But not Sky Lynx. That guy rocks.

JediTricks
12-27-2006, 01:47 AM
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, but, seriously, with as many people as are involved in the making of a movie trailer, someone should've noticed something.Merriam Websters has "sent-ee-ent" as a secondary pronunciation, but theirs is the only significant resource I've found that references it, it definitely stood out as an oddity to me when I first heard it.


I love how Bay's people said the trailer with Prime's voice at the end is fan-made... riiiight, a fan got ahold of Cullen's reading of the line which was done for the movie and only exists in Paramount's hands right now, added it to a high-quality online video in crystal clarity, hacked into the Paramount site's server, uploaded the file, then rewrote their Flash app to call on that file all without leaving a trace. :rolleyes: I'm guessing Bay is so unfamiliar with Transformers that he thought the line was just edited in from the cartoon - I really hate this turd.


Why look, it's Empire Magazine's cover with Optimus on it, he's been remodled so now he looks a little like an old timey train is busting through his chest: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=118347

And here's a scan of a prequel comic's artwork for one of the movie bots before he takes an earth mode, even though it's in no way Transformer-like and looks more like an organic alien than a robot: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1519

Yes, this is truly going to be the Transformers movie we've all been waiting for. :mad:

Tycho
12-27-2006, 03:03 AM
Hmmm. I'm not liking that.

JediTricks
12-29-2006, 03:03 AM
The comic or the movie Optimus pic?

JediTricks
01-02-2007, 09:52 PM
The Japanese get a different trailer, one with Spielberg and Bay blathering briefly at the beginning:

http://www.transformers-movie.jp/top.html

There's a new shot of Bumblebee's non-masked face (creepy!), another shot of Scorponok moving through the desert, a new shot of Shia with girlfriendgirl, and a very quick shot of Shia running with the energon cube under his arm (it's a medium-small gray box, not much to see, not much visual of this MacGuffin I guess).

However, the Japanese seem to be missing the shot of Optimus which seems kinda important.

Tycho
01-02-2007, 11:49 PM
The comic or the movie Optimus pic?

The movie Optimus pic with the long nose engine stuck in his chest. I hope that's an unused concept drawing or that someone made a mistake.

I didn't look at the comic scans. I don't want one more thing to get into. I'm writing my own novel right now (historical fiction) and I'm into that.

Tycho
01-03-2007, 12:15 AM
I watched the Japanese trailer and I paused it on BumbleBee. I'm actually kind of getting used to him. He's sort of cute in his own way. Like the Short Circuit robot or something.

Michael Bay reminds me of a politician friend of mine. Both seem sort of dorky. Spielberg's become a used car salesman.

The pair of them reminded me of a poor imitation act that WAS NOT selected to portray Beavis and ButtHead in an elementary school play!

El Chuxter
01-03-2007, 12:29 AM
I watched the Japanese trailer and I paused it on BumbleBee. I'm actually kind of getting used to him. He's sort of cute in his own way. Like the Short Circuit robot or something.

I swear, if Bumblebee reprograms some Decepticons to act like the Three Stooges (the way Johnny-5 did in Short Circuit), that would make the movie absolutely wicked despite all the other obvious flaws.

:mabs:

darthvyn
01-03-2007, 12:32 PM
I love how Bay's people said the trailer with Prime's voice at the end is fan-made...

the way it was tacked on at the end made it seem plausible... what a hack'n'slash job... also i counted 34 fade transitions... 34!!! and that's not counting those that faded out into text... just a fade into another scene... it was just so annoyingly repetitive...

JediTricks
01-04-2007, 09:11 PM
The movie Optimus pic with the long nose engine stuck in his chest. I hope that's an unused concept drawing or that someone made a mistake.The rumor mill says this Empire cover is the "updated" version from the prelim images we saw of Optimus before, and will either be or be close to the movie version.


What was annoyingly repetitive Vyn, what was it that was repetitive? What was that which you speak? ;)

General_Grievous
01-09-2007, 06:56 PM
Check out the crappy toys from Hasbro. Starscream and Optimus.

http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=022A4582-D56F-E112-44904AB6ED4C53B1

They're not exactly from the movie, but they're based on their appearances.

Tycho
01-09-2007, 08:16 PM
We'll actually see

Optimus Prime
Jazz
Ironhide
Ratchet

like this for a few seconds in the movie, but no Decepticons. Hasbro is "expanding the universe" again.

I'm surprised they aren't making the "purple collection."

Anyway, you can see 1 of the 4 Autobots in this protoform in the movie teaser trailer's very beginning as the commet crashes. (It's not a commet, but "More than meets the eye." :rolleyes: And it's not Ironhide, because he lands in the swimming pool and you see his robot protoform climbing out at the end of the trailer when the little girl is standing there watching him. (You know that's not a Decepticon because he would have killed her).

So I hope these non-spoilers didn't spoil anything - you have seen the trailer and could probably gather those details easily enough from it.

Tycho
01-11-2007, 04:20 AM
This is the most disgusting image I have ever posted on SSG.

JediTricks
01-11-2007, 06:41 PM
What? Can't you see Megatron in that? Granted, he looks like a pile of dead insects' broken husks painted silver, his "hands" are more akin to bizarre TV antennae, he has no blaster weaponry nor a definable face, and he's merely a random collection of pointy shell elements, but OF COURSE it's Megatron! :p Yeesh, this thing looks so little like "Transformers" it's astounding. Here's the larger version of the pic, you can really make out the anti-face with goofy Alien-esque mouth: www.tfw2005.com/boards/imagehosting/4418245a4321b149ff.jpg

mabudonicus
01-12-2007, 07:44 AM
YEEESH

Nice description there, JT, I bet I could actually MAKE a "Megatron" by emptying out my pitcher plants and cleaning off all the insect carapaces, then sticking them all together in a gluey ball with some epoxy or something, then giving them a quick blast of silver spray paint- if it weren't such a disgusting operation, I might do it

No, unless EVERYTHING we've seen so far is actually a bunch of red herrings, I'd say this movie is gonna be pretty goofy. I mean, if you can't even LOOK at the main characters without feeling acute mental pain, actually sitting through it might be damn near impossible

Even that damn POSE that "megatron" is in is just plain stupid- in the cartoon he kinda stood around, but in that pic he's doing some goofy take on King Kong or somethin, you can practically see biplanes swarming around his monstrous form :beard:Isobaws&

Tycho
01-14-2007, 11:34 PM
TF2005 just posted this link to Toy Fare's interview with the writers of 2007's Transformers movie:

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/toyfare/002989825.cfm

I think you all will enjoy reading it. One thing it confirms is that Soundwave is not in the movie. I presume the radio will be Frenzy as previously rumored.

JediTricks
01-18-2007, 09:32 PM
They act like they wrote this script from scratch when they rewrote it from John Rogers script. And I totally fear this:
KURTZMAN: One of the big conceptual decisions that we made early on was in the vein of Jurassic Park. What was really smart about Jurassic Park was that there was a lot of buildup, and it really whetted the audience’s appetite to see what the dinosaurs looked like. And the one thing we knew was that if we could find a way to make these things real and give them vitality on-screen, what we didn’t want to do was take for granted how amazing it was to get that. We knew that we had to structure the story around the idea of it being a reveal—we couldn’t just start with the robots so nakedly out there. We had to make the characters in our movie the audience, in a way, and we had to have the characters saying: “What’s going on? What is this world about? What’s happening here? We don’t understand things,” and let the story reveal itself that way.
Jurassic Park is a totally different animal, the dinosaurs had no character, they were animals not people. These guys don't even seem to understand that Transformers are supposed to be people, the whole point being their story as it crosses Humanity's path, not the other way around.

I love this part:
ORCI: I get the spirit of your question though. I mean, we doubted some times if the movie would even fly at all, just because it’s such a difficult thing for some people to get their mind around. You know, there were early-on struggles about whether or not the Transformers would even talk, you know?

You’re kidding!

ORCI: The studio was concerned that we might not be able to make that believable in a live-action translation. And ultimately we all concluded that that was just too big of a re-conceptualization, that at that point it did cease to be Transformers. If they didn’t talk, if it wasn’t Optimus Prime, if it wasn’t some semblance of the characters they were, then you might as well call it GoBots at that point, or whatever. So, it wasn’t until the second or third draft that we really started having them speak. I hope we don’t regret it.Zowee! You fought for them to be characters at all, how amazing, let's give you a medal for writing a script that was so weak that it allowed someone else to push this idea in the first place!

There's so much more wrong with what they're saying, I just don't have it in me to tear them to shreds. But it's tragic that they are more interested in doing an "origin story of how aliens got to this planet and attacked us "movie than actually dealing with the characters and they think that's a good thing.

- - -


Megatron's arm cannon:
http://tformers.com/TF-Movie-Concept-Megatron-Alt-Mode,-Arm-Cannon/6994/news.html

What a piece of junk! Looks like they just piled a bunch of parts onto an arm and called it a gun.


- - -

So from today's TF movie news, I wrote this:

Michael Bay: Foot in Mouth again
Regarding his comment here: http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1407

I had no idea Transformers would have so many fans around the world. Yahoo reported to Paramount, that the Transformers Trailer was the most downloaded trailer ever on Yahoo. It had the most the first day, and the most the first week. It beat Spider Man 3 that up till now held the record, we beat them by over 2,000,000 streams. What we found interesting was that an equal number of women viewed it as men. Go figure.[I bolded the part I found most telling.] Gee, ya putz, maybe you should have done a tenth of a second's research on the project before taking it up and reimagining it into something completely different instead of just writing it off as a dumb stupid "long over" toy franchise that you thought you could do whatever you wanted to. Maybe it's not just kids' junk not worth spitting on, maybe there are a great number of interested parties out there who actually give a crap about this franchise and don't want to see its essence torn out of its chest. Perhaps you should have got your ego in check, mister super-director, before using the project as a stepping stone to making the "alien-invasion" disaster picture you've always wanted to make. That's right, Transformers actually means something to more than just a few fanboys huddled together, while you were getting paddled in college the rest of the culture grew at least a nominal interest in what the Transformers were doing during their inception, it stuck with the culture all these years and they still care - since you obviously don't, how are you going to get them to care about what you're doing? I fear your arrogance has created an awful Transformers movie and the only positive thing to come out of that is that more of the world will recognize you for a gimmicky, hacky, mediocre moviemaker whose only lasting impact will be to lessen the quality of cinema for years to come.

Tycho
01-18-2007, 09:56 PM
Right on, JT! That was classic. :yes:

darthvyn
01-19-2007, 08:18 AM
i think this quote sums everything up nicely:


"What’s going on? What is this world about? What’s happening here? We don’t understand things,"

mabudonicus
01-19-2007, 08:38 AM
That quote jumped right out at me, too, Vyn

There were brief flashes of "WTF" in the original series, but we never even had to endure more than a minute or so of transformers-free Transformers

And as for Jurassic PArk, the first film in the series is my absolute least favourite due to the fact that the impression I was stuck with is the filmmakers REALLY tried to make the film "showy" and seem important without the dinos for way too long- I went to see dinosaurs dammit, and instead it was 40 minutes of bad acting and gratuitous crane and helicopter shots with a soundtrack that suggested ridiculous excitement overtop of a whole bunch of nothin

Damn man, a movie called Transformers where the producers wanna be "sparing" with the titular characters, cos it was "brilliant" in that rip-off Jurassic Park. Anyone who takes THAT crap film as some sort of benchmark is an idiot, the kind of idiot who could actually argue against the Transformers TALKING

MAN okay, okay I'm calmed down, and nice rant JT, the end can not come soon enough for Mr.Bays career- I shudder to think of him optioning Mobile Suit Gundam or something else I would want to see a really good movie made out of

:beard::ducks:Isobaws&

Droid
01-19-2007, 10:27 AM
Jurassic Park worked because we had never seen anything like the dinosaurs before, so it was worth the set up and it was mindblowing. We have now seen every possible CGI wow. We know they can do anything so now they have to spend less time on the wow and more time on the story.

And this:

KURTZMAN: We were big Transformers fans. We both had the toys when we were kids and we loved to play with them, but it wasn’t until we took the movie on that we really pored over the deep, deep, deep mythology of the franchise, and really kind of got inside of it.

KURTZMAN: It was less a matter of updating the characters, because I think we all felt like we wanted to stay very true to the characters that we grew up with. The challenge for us was more in figuring out what the human storyline was gonna be, because you know in the cartoons and in the comics, the human characters were the least of what the stories were about. So first we said, “Look, we know all the robots, we know all of those characters we grew up with, but what do we want to do for the movie?”

So they loved Transformers, then dug deeper into the mythology to really understand it and then junked everything and made up something that can't be recognized by anyone?

This is what they call staying "very true to the characters that we grew up with"?

They acknowledge that the humans were incidental to the cartoons and comics, that it has always been that way, and decided we need to focus more on the humans.

They enter this saying "we know all the robots", but what are we going to do in the movie? SHOW THE ROBOTS AND FOCUS ON THE ROBOTS AND HAVE THE ROBOTS LOOK LIKE THE ROBOTS.

Honestly, I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone on this thing.

Droid
01-19-2007, 10:27 AM
And I will NEVER see this movie!

Tycho
01-19-2007, 02:43 PM
It's logical that they have humans in the film to make it a live-action movie, else it could have been an all-CGI spectacular. But there were humans in the G1 cartoon yet it was not about them.

They could have hired even deeper "no-name" actors than they did to have very incidental humans in the picture. But we know Shia LeBouf wants to gain "Lord of the Rings star-power" out of his portrayal of Sam Witwicky :rolleyes: Meanwhile, Megan Fox is hot, and I don't know where they got her from, but they could have gone into any strip club in Hollywood or around LAX airport and scouted good looking talent, then asked the girl to scream if they showed her a picture of a Decepticon, and to hug a blue screen punching bag if they showed her a picture of an Autobot. It's about that simple. J/K. Then they could make the movie about the robots.

JediTricks
01-20-2007, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the comments about my rant, sorry Bay has made it necessary. :p


MAN okay, okay I'm calmed down, and nice rant JT, the end can not come soon enough for Mr.Bays career- I shudder to think of him optioning Mobile Suit Gundam or something else I would want to see a really good movie made out ofTo be honest, I think Gundam would better suit his talents for shallow generic characters, slow-mo shots, tons of fast edits, and giant explosions - but it couldn't be any of the more serious stuff like 08th MS Team. Then again, he'd probably do a "realistic" version of the mobile suits and ruin them as well, but since they don't have to transform it might not be as extreme. You know what, forget it, I take it all back, Michael Bay should only be allowed to make music videos again.



Jurassic Park worked because we had never seen anything like the dinosaurs before, so it was worth the set up and it was mindblowing. We have now seen every possible CGI wow. We know they can do anything so now they have to spend less time on the wow and more time on the story.That's a good point! CGI is so burned out from being seen time and time again, it can no longer be the only reason to see a film, it should be used sparingly, not constantly and abusively.


So they loved Transformers, then dug deeper into the mythology to really understand it and then junked everything and made up something that can't be recognized by anyone?They had to, the part you quoted points out they didn't watch the show, they owned a few toys and that was all they had interaction with it.


This is what they call staying "very true to the characters that we grew up with"? They mean the characters they made up in their heads while playing with the toys and ignoring the bio cards and TV show as much as possible. :p


They acknowledge that the humans were incidental to the cartoons and comics, that it has always been that way, and decided we need to focus more on the humans.

They enter this saying "we know all the robots", but what are we going to do in the movie? SHOW THE ROBOTS AND FOCUS ON THE ROBOTS AND HAVE THE ROBOTS LOOK LIKE THE ROBOTS.

Honestly, I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone on this thing.Totally agree, and I really cannot fathom how so many TransFans can be into this project. This movie treats our transformers characters as alien invaders a la War of the Worlds, how is that true to the essence of Transformers?


I suspect a lot of TransFans are just excited that anybody is taking their thing seriously and are more excited about that than about worrying whether there will be a real Transformers story and essence to go with it.




It's logical that they have humans in the film to make it a live-action movie, else it could have been an all-CGI spectacular. But there were humans in the G1 cartoon yet it was not about them.That is a poor argument, it's the moviemakers' argument and I disagree sharply for 2 reasons: A) Transformers are people too, they have personalities and are sentient beings fighting and living long before they got to Earth, that shouldn't be marginalized; B) a Transformers movie can have human interaction without making humans the main characters by having a little screen time with a few humans who know the Transformers and some general screen time with Transformers interacting with random humans on the street - Autobots trying to save them while Decepticons not caring about who is put in danger to achieve their goals. This also would have made their "robots in DISGUISE" thing more important.


They could have hired even deeper "no-name" actors than they did to have very incidental humans in the picture. But we know Shia LeBouf wants to gain "Lord of the Rings star-power" out of his portrayal of Sam Witwicky :rolleyes:Actually, I get the feeling Shia doesn't really want to be in this picture, it's mainly just a quick thrill to work on an action flick and a big paycheck.

Tycho
01-20-2007, 04:43 PM
That is a poor argument, it's the moviemakers' argument and I disagree sharply for 2 reasons: A) Transformers are people too, they have personalities and are sentient beings fighting and living long before they got to Earth, that shouldn't be marginalized; B) a Transformers movie can have human interaction without making humans the main characters by having a little screen time with a few humans who know the Transformers and some general screen time with Transformers interacting with random humans on the street - Autobots trying to save them while Decepticons not caring about who is put in danger to achieve their goals. This also would have made their "robots in DISGUISE" thing more important.

Actually, we don't disagree or differ in opinions JT. Maybe I just wasn't clearly expressing myself. You phrased everything above prefectly well.


Actually, I get the feeling Shia doesn't really want to be in this picture, it's mainly just a quick thrill to work on an action flick and a big paycheck.

He said in an interview that this supposed trilogy is his Lord of the Rings. So hopefully he performs decently enough. Else they could make the sequels when Sam is older and recast the role - that is if this movie doesn't totally blunder at the box office forbidding any future sequels.

And while Megan Fox is hot, they can eventually introduce a new "Bot Girl" in a blonde and bring the future Carly Witwicky into the picture, as long as it's given no more screen time than she was awarded in the G1 series.

El Chuxter
01-20-2007, 11:27 PM
Both the 'toon and the comics turned from the human aspect of the story rather early on. The writers realized that's not what people cared about.

Though it still p***ed me off when Megatron killed Spike in the G2 comic. :mad:

preacher
01-21-2007, 12:54 PM
What I will never understand is why writers in hollywood have this obsession to tell modern stories. It does not need to be modern in order to tell a good story. The characters need to be developed and the setting established so that the story more or less tells itself. The characters drive the story; the antagonist conflicts the protagonist. Setting does not drive story. As long as the characters are fully developed and 20+ years of the transmformers character-rich mythos gaurantees this, it does not matter what the setting is. The hard part, character development is already done. This movie should be a slam dunk for any talented writer. These clowns writing this transformer movie have lost site of what the transformers are and who the characters are.

The reason Transformers is so memorable to me is because of the politics of the world at the time. I remember Reagan's missile defense program being a major driver for the political climate. I got my first transformer comic book (issue 2) in a 7-11 store at emette Idaho right around the time Return of the Jedi. Across from the store was the city hall and a tank as a memorial. I remember thinking back then how cool would it be if there were a tank transformer. Issue 2 was a kick for me because these massive robots were battling in a junk yard. The cover had me hooked; Optimus was deflecting Megatron's fusion blast using a car as a shield. I remember thinking that Megatron looked like such a wuss. But when I read that comic I knew he wasn't to be underestimated. THAT one image set the tone for the Transformers. The imagery is every bit as poignant in my mind as the rebel blockade fleeing from the first Star Destroyer in ANH. So now if I imagine what the cover art would look like for Issue 2 if these movie versions of the character were used - we would have a pretty decent representation of Optimus, but Megatron - ugh. Not even an oversized fusion cannon. Megatron, as a character, is old, feels like a seasoned general. A seasoned general is not concerned with "looking" evil. You can change many things about Megatron, but two things that these writers should not have changed were his Fusion cannon and his archaic look. Megatron would not ever put spikes on himself. He would let his raw power, and his intimidating cannon get his enemies attention, not over the top spikey things.

Transformers (not talking about the multiverse ones like beast wars) land on earth in 1980s. Not in 2000s. This may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but these scribes of the transformer script have repeatedly used the argument that Soundwave was curt from the script because their are no tapedecks in 2000. To me this shows a real lack of imagination. Why have they convinced themselves that the only way they can tell this story is if it takes place in 2000s? If they wanted the story modern (stupid) then they could have kept Soundwave as a tapedeck. This could have even been a humourous plot device, poking fun at the Transformers mythology, having Megatron actually a Walther pistol, having Soundwave be tapedeck. Two of the most powerful Transformers in the line-up looking as unintimidating as a pistol and tapedeck only to actually be these montrous robots - there is some humor there - and a good writer could make it work. Whats more it would totally fit their character. Soundwave is supposed to be a spy, so of course he is going to position himself somewhere he can get the most intel - maybe a flea market in DC. Can you imagine a blue tapedeck sitting near a group of military wives chumming around at this flea market, not noticing that the blue tapedeck is recording information they are saying about a new prototype weapon. They could even pick Soundwave up as they decide whether or not to buy such an antique to sell on EBAY. Megatron rarely ever changed into this pistol form. He is unconcerned with fitting in. The more humans he can make terrified of him the better he would like it.

Spielberg doesn't get it.

mabudonicus
01-22-2007, 10:10 AM
Good observation, Preacher

A good example of this would be the Fugitive- I mean, I LOVED the show and was stoked to see the film.... unfortunately, thanks to the modern setting, Kimball figured out who the one-armed man was RIGHT OFF the bat- in the series, there were a few times when Kimball (I'm sure this is spelled wrong) was devastated after finding out that the person he was chasing, believed to the the One Armed Man, had died, leaving him hopeless, which added a great deal to the overall "investment" on the part of the audience, being able to actually kind of partake of the "What the HELL is he gonna do now??" feeling
All that was lost with the "update"

The Mos Squad was another film which I really was loking forward to, but again, the update kinda ruined EVERYTHING that was good about the actual source material (Linc with no huge afro?? WTF?!?!?)

I really dislike re-makes for this phenomenon. On the other hand, some films are careful on this level and succeed with blurring the "setting" to good effect- the Spider Man franchise did this- in the first film, there is hardly ANYTHING to really "date" the film (I can't recall this angle in Spiderman 2 but from what I recall it was kinda similar) no obvious Ipods, conspicuous/ubiquitous cellphones, nothing to smack you in the face and say "LOOK, this is RIGHT NOW, SERIOUSLY" and I actually both noticed AND enjoyed that fact

I like your ideas, too, about having a certain "camp" factor from the obvious 80's setting- it would NOT have to be played to, really, it could just happen and you could take it however you like- the notion of someone mulling the purchase of Soundwave f'rinstance, would be kinda funny but kinda sinister too, and I really think that would be the Transformers many of us would like to see :beard: :ducks:Isobaws&

preacher
01-22-2007, 07:29 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I get the feeling that Spielberg is trying to inject some of his post 911 political views. Which I really don't have a problem with - as long as it doesn't interfere with the characters.

These robots are supposed to more than meets the eye - a subtitle I always have taken to mean that these robots could literally be anywhere. As you point out this uncertainty is far more sinister a prospect than having some in-the-face robotic monstrosity that is deviates from the "more than meets the eye" mantra.

JediTricks
01-22-2007, 08:52 PM
What I will never understand is why writers in hollywood have this obsession to tell modern stories.Do you mean "new tales" or just modern settings? The reason they're in modern settings is to save money on design and production of that new universe. Also, with a lot of inexperienced moviemakers (writers, directors, producers), I think part of what's happening is they want to one-up previous works, so if Megatron was scary as a gun then they think he'll be even scarier as a big pointy metal evil-looking bug thing because they have limited imaginations and cannot tell the difference between making a character scary through his actions and just making him look scary - Transformers is HARDLY alone in that though.


but these scribes of the transformer script have repeatedly used the argument that Soundwave was curt from the script because their are no tapedecks in 2000.That's not exactly accurate, they had Soundwave in it but he was originally a CD player and then a large stereo, that's when a few of the folks who give a crap realized that both iterations are far too watered down to properly convey the character.


To me this shows a real lack of imagination. Why have they convinced themselves that the only way they can tell this story is if it takes place in 2000s?They're definitely suffering a lack of imagination on this project, no doubt, the dumping of mass-shifting is a relatively minor one in my book, but making the movie about the humans is a major one and so is "every little piece on the bots will move". The reason it takes place in the "nows" is so they don't have to do heavy location redressing, and so they can get corporate sponsorship like they have with GM and Microsoft.

Tycho
01-22-2007, 11:56 PM
I get the feeling that Spielberg is trying to inject some of his post 911 political views. Which I really don't have a problem with - as long as it doesn't interfere with the characters.

What do you think are Spielberg's post-9-11 political views? I'm always interested in political discussion, but we'll keep it on topic to limit it to Spielberg's views. Also, isn't that more the writers' pervue than Spielberg's or Bay's?

Tycho
01-23-2007, 02:15 AM
I keep crying when I watch this Transformers trailer that this artist added music to:

http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?bandID=161472

Make sure you turn off his other tunes before you play this. One of the other tunes is a pretty cool anthem to Transformers as well. (Click on the first one and click play and pause again to turn it off)

The play this trailer - yeah this one...wow! I have to face it: I love Optimus Prime and BumbleBee is going to rock in this movie!

There are definitely serious concerns I have for this picture, but I still cannot wait for July 4 and my chance to see it!

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings!" - Optimus Prime

DarkArtist
01-23-2007, 11:31 AM
that is some cool music for the trailor, it was starting to sound a little like the first Batman movie until the Transformers them kicked in. really cool looking flick.

El Chuxter
01-23-2007, 11:39 AM
I'll have to check this out when I get home.

But the convo reminds me: has there been an announcement of who is scoring the movie?

JediTricks
01-24-2007, 05:22 PM
Sorry Tycho, I didn't care for it, too generic.


But the convo reminds me: has there been an announcement of who is scoring the movie?
Steve Jablonsky, he's done the non-theme music for Desparate Housewives, the Hitcher remake (Bay produced this, just came out), Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning (Michael Bay produced this), The Island, Amityville Horror remake (also produced by Bay), Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake (Another Bay production), the music for the reality show "The Contender", and some other horror and thrillers, but nothing that looks like a standout to me. The guy looks to have not much big under his belt besides Bay's projects: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0413011/

JediTricks
01-24-2007, 10:07 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention this thing, the close-up of Prime's face:

http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=7036

I really really really hate his eyes, they look totally wrong, too close together, too small, they look like they're turbine blades on the loose, and they have a creepy chimp-eye thing going too. I really don't see how that's going to be expressive, even on the big screen.

darthvyn
01-25-2007, 01:03 PM
I really really really hate his eyes...

what eyes? i don't see any. he looks like sam neill in "event horizon" after he gouged them out.

preacher
01-25-2007, 08:35 PM
Tycho,

Honestly, I'm unconcerned with Spielberg's political views. When he made war of the worlds Spielberg as much as admitted it was politcal commentary to the post 911 era. I just hope this transformer movie isn't a repeat of that - that is not what transformers is or should ever be about. From looking at the Transformers trailer that is exactly what we are going to get. Its not the right tone. It doesn't feel like its going to be fun to watch. Way too serious. Just my opinion.

While its true the writers are the one writing the script at the end of the day its the director and producer that gives a thumbs up or thumbs down. Spielberg packs a lot of punch. My point is that watching the trailer where we have Blackout (I think that the chopper) and scorponak in the desert setting, it just seems like these guys are intentionally trying to do everything they can to make this current. They aren't thinking outside the box. I already showed one possibility on how to get Soundwave in the picture. The Transformer mythos can stand on its own - its a great story with developed characters that can drive the story on its own without all the obligatory references to the present time.

Tycho
01-25-2007, 09:38 PM
I love contemporary commentary, when it's done well like in TOS Star Trek, and I love politics. So the more contemporary realism the better.

What I sense the most, is that the "Soundwave fan club" wants to desperately get him inserted into the Transformers picture.

I think what you said about setting the film in the 1980's and using the tape deck design could be cool though. However, I don't like the size changes - or at least not without some expose' on the technology used to engage them - such as a scene where Prime can't pull his trailer through the space-warp converter, or Megatron transforms from a gun, but is suddenly only 7 or 8 inches tall due to a malfunction from battle damage, and Starscream tries to step on him. Only this technology taken for granted in the cartoon would allow Rumble and Ravage and Laserbeak etc. to become what they are and revert to cassette tapes that fit into a walkman.

The cassettes and his versitality as an espionage agent were what made Soundwave so cool in the first place. You can't argue he had any kind of personality as a character that matched Starscream for example. What did Scrapper call him? "An un-charismatic bore." Well, Scrapper was right.

Slicker
01-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Transformers are DOOMED!!!

figrin bran
01-26-2007, 02:27 AM
To me, this is no longer a Transformers movie but rather "Robot Invaders from a planet that is only vaguely reminiscent of Cybertron"

preacher
01-26-2007, 11:23 AM
I can see your point. And you wouldn't know it by reading my posts, but I'm really not with "soundwave fan club". He is a dullard - a charasmatic bore -a yesman.

Transformers isn't about realism. On one hand we are to believe that 50 ft tall robots have arrived from the planet Cybertron ; that they have somehow evolved into a state of sentience that would stump darwin. These same robots have somehow run out of resources to keep them running (they can't figure out solar power?!), and they have managed to travel for lord knows how long to reach earth, or used interdimensional travel to reach earth. Yet we can't believe that these same robots can shrink?

Picture this. Megatron as a normal sized gun has malfunctioned and is stuck in gun mode. Somehow Megatron gets unstuck and transforms before a hapless humans very eyes. After the human picks his jaw up off the ground he stutters "How could you - how - i mean - how could you be that and become THIS!? You are HUGE" to which Megatron would reply, "Ignorant creature! We have mastered technology that allowed us to reach your puny planet; why wouldn't we be able to reduce ourselves?" Right there a writer can acknowledge the absurdity of it but make the audience say yeah okay, I guess I can believe that - I mean the big robot from the planet of robots with the oversized cannon arm has a point - lets see what happens.

Tycho
01-26-2007, 11:29 AM
Preacher, you made great points. I hope I can help with this one:


These same robots have somehow run out of resources to keep them running (they can't figure out solar power?!).

Cybertron has no sun. The origins are not totally clear, but perhaps the great and huge sentient Primus escaped his home planet's star burning out or going supernova, and he set off into space.

He transformed himself into Cyberton. His internal energy continuing to sustain him in hybernation (like a bear does). He created or took with him life forms to maintain and preserve him, and they sought immortality by means of placing themselves into robotic exosuits. They became the Quintessons.

They created classes of robot servants who eventually rebelled and fell into Civil War with themselves. I'm sure you know the rest.

JediTricks
01-28-2007, 04:05 AM
While its true the writers are the one writing the script at the end of the day its the director and producer that gives a thumbs up or thumbs down. Spielberg packs a lot of punch. My point is that watching the trailer where we have Blackout (I think that the chopper) and scorponak in the desert setting, it just seems like these guys are intentionally trying to do everything they can to make this current. They aren't thinking outside the box. I already showed one possibility on how to get Soundwave in the picture. The Transformer mythos can stand on its own - its a great story with developed characters that can drive the story on its own without all the obligatory references to the present time.Spielberg is the executive producer, he can ask for changes but as Bay is director and one of the regular producers, he's the one helming this - guiding the script, look of the bots, everything.

And yeah, Blackout is the chopper.



A few official promo pics from the movie:
http://enewsi.com/news.php?catid=190&itemid=10626

Prime still looks like a train just slammed through his back.

Tycho
01-28-2007, 04:27 AM
Megan Fox looks so hot in that picture. I wished she'd transform from topless dancer to escort girl and back again! That'd MAKE this film!

JediTricks
01-28-2007, 05:03 AM
Looks like a totally generic bimbette to me.

Tycho
01-28-2007, 05:18 AM
Looks like a totally generic bimbette to me.

Exactly why she's perfect! Too bad Michael Bay couldn't get the Autobots and Decepticons right.

JediTricks
01-28-2007, 09:10 PM
Exactly why she's perfect! Too bad Michael Bay couldn't get the Autobots and Decepticons right.
"Perfect" in that she's perfectly disposable? No thanks, I prefer women with character over Barbie doll girls. Not that this story needs a girlfriend for Spike... er, I mean "Sam", but I guess since Transformers are barely characters gotta distract the audience with something.

Tycho
01-29-2007, 09:31 AM
www.TFW2005.com posted a book review for the first issue in the 4-story comic prequel to the 2007 Transformers film.

It confirms a ton of crap I DO NOT LIKE!

Briefly, Megatron and Optimus Prime co-ruled Cybertron with an alien energy providing device called the All-Spark giving life.

Megatron got greedy and war broke out.

Prime thought the best thing to do was get the All-Spark off the planet so they could reach a peaceful settlement with nothing left to fight for, or they'd die and the All-Spark would lead to life arising elsewhere.

Alright, it doesn't sound terrible, just plot-contrived convenient, and very non-traditional from my perspective of what Transformers' backstory is all about.

Anyway, the All-Spark lands on earth, and Megatron goes chasing it. You can figure the rest out.

I think the plot displays a preference to complete fantasy versus taking fantasy elements and building them into reality - my preference. Furthermore, at present, it lacks the complexity and sophistocation that I appreciate. I hope I'm wrong.

Droid
01-29-2007, 01:39 PM
That is really stupid.

Tycho
01-29-2007, 06:22 PM
That is really stupid.

A good, succint evaluation that I agree with.

preacher
01-29-2007, 06:24 PM
Oh my god....soooo stupid. All spark? Isn't that a reference was beast machines?

bigbarada
01-29-2007, 07:51 PM
Soooo, we get to see a Transformers movie..... about people? :mad: It's nice to see them downgrade the Transformers to the status of 'movie monsters.' :rolleyes:

I hate Optimus Prime's eyes in that picture, they look too "human."

JediTricks
01-29-2007, 10:06 PM
It confirms a ton of crap I DO NOT LIKE!And yet you'll probably like the movie because you like expensive action pieces even when they crap on Transformers like this.


Briefly, Megatron and Optimus Prime co-ruled Cybertron with an alien energy providing device called the All-Spark giving life.Yeah, I thought that was really dopey when I read the review this morning.


Megatron got greedy and war broke out.Well, that part is consistant. ;)


Prime thought the best thing to do was get the All-Spark off the planet so they could reach a peaceful settlement with nothing left to fight for, or they'd die and the All-Spark would lead to life arising elsewhere.That was so stupid, throwing it into space - dumb dumb dumb. How will you find it later?


Anyway, the All-Spark lands on earth, and Megatron goes chasing it. You can figure the rest out.A lot of product-placement and loud rock music soundtrack give way to a threadbare "humans dealing with alien invasion" plot based incredibly loosely around one of the preeminent toy lines of all time?

I also thought the robot art looked totally non-Transformers despite being done by TF comic vets.



Oh my god....soooo stupid. All spark? Isn't that a reference was beast machines?Indeed it was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allspark#Origin

Tycho
01-29-2007, 11:24 PM
Look, I don't think this movie can get a grade above a "C" from me right now.

There's half I do like, and I've posted all-excited about that.

Then there's half I want to KILL Michael Bay over that I really HATE (and that's not a strong enough word!)

So I will go and see this in the theaters to learn whether it gets a "C" or an "F."

Qui-Long Gone
01-30-2007, 12:43 AM
Look, I don't think this movie can get a grade above a "C" from me right now.

There's half I do like, and I've posted all-excited about that.

Then there's half I want to KILL Michael Bay over that I really HATE (and that's not a strong enough word!)

So I will go and see this in the theaters to learn whether it gets a "C" or an "F."

Cheer up Tycho....I'll kill the other half of Michael Bay....and I got a lot of Cs and Fs in school but I turned out Ok...maybe all hope isn't lost......no.....ok, it is....

Tycho
01-30-2007, 02:24 AM
I quote myself here, and then punish Michael Bay with it:


Briefly, Megatron and Optimus Prime co-ruled Cybertron with an alien energy providing device called the All-Spark giving life.

Megatron would never share power with anyone. Even "way back when," he would not have been friends with Prime.

Furthermore, Transformers are advanced beings. They should never have been dependent on an alien energy device. They should make their own. Furthermore, their existence should be the result of some kind of organic evolution - maybe of silicon based life, or as a result of tranfering organic sentience into machines, or finally as a result of some kind of Terminator / I-Robot arrangement where the artificially intelligent machines fought for independence.

There's should be a class struggle with the military line oppressing the civilian line, and the latter developing transformation technology to fight with, then the military utilizing it as well. The military would evolve into the Decepticons, and the civilians' warrior corps would be known as the Autobots, as most of them originated from assembly line automation (either controlled once by Quintessons, or not - I never cared too much for the Quintesson story, but it was alright I guess).

Finally, Cybertron would be out of power if its sun went dead. Perhaps eons ago, when the surviving lifeforms that depended upon it transfered their bodies into machines to survive.

That being said, I remember when Starscream created the Combaticons. I could have sworn he used life-force essences mechanically stored - from criminals as well I think. That's one reason why Transformers can be killed instead of just rebuilt. It would explain how most of the Season 1 & 2 Autobots died in the '86 movie, while Ultra Magnus was blown into a ton of pieces but the Junkions rebuilt him so easily: perhaps his life-force essence was not compromised in its shielded storage? (The other issue is that in spite of programming, a Transformer is also the sum of its experiences - so it is thus both genetics and environment that shape an Autobot or Decepticon).


Prime thought the best thing to do was get the All-Spark off the planet so they could reach a peaceful settlement with nothing left to fight for, or they'd die and the All-Spark would lead to life arising elsewhere.

This seems too desperate for Prime's strategy. Maybe. I guess it could be him - not wanting to destroy life, (the All-Spark's in this case), but wanting to "cure" the issue they fight over.


Anyway, the All-Spark lands on earth, and Megatron goes chasing it. You can figure the rest out.

See, if Cybertron is without a star, and thus out of energy, it makes so much more sense for the Decepticons to come to earth looking to pillage our natural resources than chase down some artifact. If it was the Autobot Matrix of Leadership, then I'd say "OK." It would make sense that if Megatron wanted to crush his opposition, he'd destroy their most valuable resource.

Anyway, the step by step circumstances for developments in the story is good. The overall larger concept is terrible. HELP.:hurt:

JediTricks
01-30-2007, 04:10 PM
By the way, here's something Bay said recently on the shootfortheedit website about him: (I can't link it because he's swearing)

No the Internet cannot wreck anyone! The internet is just one voice of many in the world. Let me be real clear - I knew damn well Tranformers had tons of fans, I just did not know the teaser would be the most downloaded in Yahoo history. When you see Optimus Transform in this movie for the first time and don't get a chill up your spine -- then **** off - because nothing in cinema will excite you!!! And trust me you won't care about the flames.His name should be "Michael Baby", what a complete jerk. And such an ego on this guy, he thinks he's god's gift to cinema, he knows all and sees all.

And he's mistaken that the internet cannot damage projects, it has in the past - it cannot make them as often, but it can break them and has.

Clearly the negative response is getting under his skin though.

El Chuxter
01-30-2007, 04:21 PM
Wow.

I don't want to see the movie now, just to spite him because he's being an arse.

Tycho
01-30-2007, 04:23 PM
Haha. I love to see him squirm!

But the writers are at fault as well - see my comments / criticisms above.

Again, on the surface, it's a great adventure for BumbleBee as well as for Spike's quest to hook up with a high school girl.

But look at the broader picture, and it really hurts any dignity a civilization on Cybertron should have enjoyed.

It's an alien culture more advanced than our own, with probably a longer evolutionary history - and they've completely cheapened it and made it dependent on a 3rd party alien technology. :rolleyes:

Qui-Long Gone
01-30-2007, 06:52 PM
By the way, here's something Bay said recently on the shootfortheedit website about him: (I can't link it because he's swearing)
His name should be "Michael Baby", what a complete jerk. And such an ego on this guy, he thinks he's god's gift to cinema, he knows all and sees all.

And he's mistaken that the internet cannot damage projects, it has in the past - it cannot make them as often, but it can break them and has.

Clearly the negative response is getting under his skin though.

We should take Bay's advice, save ourself the dissapointment and ****off, because that way we'll know our time won't be a total waste....Bay's a dweeb, and for the record, I NEVER thought he was a good choice for this film (although I give him credit for the Rock)....

You know there actually are worse directors....it could have been Joel Schumacher putting "nipples" on Elita One, or worse...Arcee....oh, right who cares about girl transformers?

preacher
01-30-2007, 08:05 PM
Tycho, not only would Megatron never-ever share his rule with anyway, but neither would Optimus ever WANT to rule cybertron to begin with. How can these writers, Bay, and Spielberg screw up even the most basic characterization of these important characters? These guys think just because a they are going to have prime transform that that is going whet our appetite. I told my wife about the Optimus and Megatron relationship and she agreed it is stupid. Even my WIFE knows enough about transforms to recognize the rediculousness.

JT, I understand that Bay is the director and Spielberg is the Producer but if Spielberg were any kind of fan and not a blatant sell out he would have reigned Bay in come up with a plot line that made sense, does not have plot holes, and quite frankly doesn't suck. My opinion this is going to be like Godzilla.

As far as Bay's wankerism, he is the same *** clown that gave us a brand new Texas Chain Saw Massacre. This guy has no ideas of his own. His schtick is to butcher already existing intellectual property and pass it off as art.

Is a lovely list of coming attraction we can expect from this bed-wetter.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000881/

Hey Bay! Why don't you direct something original for once and get your mits off true classics? Oh wait you tried that didn't you - island wasn't it. Face it I mean now your redoing Birds in 2009?! Are you smoking crack? You are going to shred a Hitchcock classic? How about you redo Vertigo next? Oh and joy of joys you are taking on Friday the 13th this year in addition to Transformers? Are you sure you aren't confusing the two?

Tycho
01-30-2007, 08:18 PM
Oh and joy of joys you are taking on Friday the 13th this year in addition to Transformers? Are you sure you aren't confusing the two?

No. He's making nightmares out of both of them! :upset:

Droid
01-30-2007, 09:45 PM
I think you are undervaluing his body of work. The imdb did also list him as having directed "The Lionel Richie Collection (2003) (V) (video 'Do It to Me')".

Here's a storyline for the movie, THE FIRST EPISODE OF THE CARTOON.

figrin bran
01-31-2007, 01:07 AM
Megatron and Optimus "co-ruling" Cybertron??? is this some sort of joke???

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet but Frank Welker has not been offered the Megatron role yet. unfortunately, it might not happen seeing as how Bay has already cast aside just about anything that fans might find familiar.

Tycho
01-31-2007, 01:08 AM
I heard Welker was close to signing. What's the deal?

JediTricks
01-31-2007, 11:04 PM
But the writers are at fault as well - see my comments / criticisms above.That's a cop-out, the writers are rewriting the script specifically to fit the helmer's vision and demands, that being Michael Bay.



We should take Bay's advice, save ourself the dissapointment and ****off, because that way we'll know our time won't be a total waste....Bay's a dweeb, and for the record, I NEVER thought he was a good choice for this film (although I give him credit for the Rock)....If folks really did avoid his movie for it, that'd be so f***ing awesome! But we all know this is likely going to be the picture that the first week's box-office will put Bay's career back on track unfortunately no matter how poorly it does in weeks 2-∞.

The Rock is kinda "eh", I accidentally bought it and it's watchable but there's no depth and you really have to shut down all thought processes to enjoy it. :p


You know there actually are worse directors....it could have been Joel Schumacher putting "nipples" on Elita One, or worse...Arcee....oh, right who cares about girl transformers?Actually, I think Schumacher's a better director... when he has a personal vision and understanding in the project. Look at Phone Booth, Lost Boys, and Falling Down - it helps that those were all projects that didn't get a lot of studio interference as well. Granted, his name is now synonymous with "hack" because of how badly he mismanaged the Batman franchise, but those aren't his only films. You want a worse director? Paul W.S. Anderson who directed Alien vs Predator. But then again, that film had a much smaller budget, the real test is a $100mil+ film's director being worse than Bay, and to be honest I cannot think of any. :p



Tycho, not only would Megatron never-ever share his rule with anyway, but neither would Optimus ever WANT to rule cybertron to begin with. How can these writers, Bay, and Spielberg screw up even the most basic characterization of these important characters? These guys think just because a they are going to have prime transform that that is going whet our appetite. I told my wife about the Optimus and Megatron relationship and she agreed it is stupid. Even my WIFE knows enough about transforms to recognize the rediculousness.How can they screw this up? By not paying attention to the essence of TF because they're busy making Michael Bay's alien-invasion picture instead. The screenwriters rewriting the film, they say they were "big fans" as kids but they only cite owning some of the toys as proof. Spielberg says he's a big fan of the franchise, but we all know how suspect that claim is. And Bay has never pretended to have anything but disinterest for the franchise.

BTW, my MOTHER knows enough about Transformers to know that's wrong. :D


JT, I understand that Bay is the director and Spielberg is the Producer but if Spielberg were any kind of fan and not a blatant sell out he would have reigned Bay in come up with a plot line that made sense, does not have plot holes, and quite frankly doesn't suck. My opinion this is going to be like Godzilla.Ok, maybe we don't all know how suspect that claim of Spielberg's was. :p Him saying that was such a farce IMO, and he's a terrible executive producer when he doesn't get personally engaged on the project. I agree, this film looks like it's going to turn into another US Godzilla or Super Mario Bros - I'd cite Masters of the Universe but even that was more true to that franchise than Transformers is shaping up to be.


As far as Bay's wankerism, he is the same *** clown that gave us a brand new Texas Chain Saw Massacre. This guy has no ideas of his own. His schtick is to butcher already existing intellectual property and pass it off as art.Be fair now, he's also given us such brilliance as "The Rock", "Bad Boys", "Armageddon", and "Bad Boys II". :p

The guy is a total hack and he just plays the studio system right to look like a real talent. He should be barred from making films ever again.



I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet but Frank Welker has not been offered the Megatron role yet. unfortunately, it might not happen seeing as how Bay has already cast aside just about anything that fans might find familiar.Honestly, Welker I think is one area that they can go a different direction, not only does Megatron not seem even remotely like Megatron, but I just don't think Welker's version of the character ever sounded smart enough or devious enough to really be buyable, and I don't think Welker's range is really cinema-worthy, he's a cartoon actor. David Kaye's Megatron now, that was a much better piece of work in Beast Wars/Beast Machines/Armada/Energon/Cybertron and had some decent acting range.



I heard Welker was close to signing. What's the deal?You listen to too many unsubstantiated rumors? Welker himself a month ago said he hadn't heard from them at all.

preacher
01-31-2007, 11:33 PM
Well, I can put up with a lot of these changes. I was okay with prime having flames. I was ok with bumblebee not being a VW. Megatron looking like a chia pet. Hell, even Starscream being transformed into some kind of gorilla looking robot. I don't like any of this, yet I was going to give this a chance.

But its this Megatron Optimus buddy-thing that is the last straw for me.
I will not watch this farce. And thats a hard thing to say, because I know when this dud fails we will not see another Transformer live action movie for quite awhile. It will be like the Batman hiatus. The studios will analyze what went wrong, and assuming they even figure that out it will be another 10 years in preproduction hell as the rights to a new movie are fought for.

JediTricks
02-01-2007, 02:19 AM
If this movie bombs, no way we'll ever see another Transformers movie in our lifetimes. :p

I heard a rumor that Megatron not only is co-leader with Prime, but actually Prime's brother. That did not sit well with me, let me tell you, and I can only hope that rumor was mistaken.

Droid
02-01-2007, 09:18 AM
1. Transformers have brothers? What does that mean, you were built by the same person/entity/robot? I never really thought of Transformers as having families.

2. Maybe it'll suck so much they'll redo it like I heard they are doing with a new Incredible Hulk movie.

3. I am glad to see others are joining my pledge to NEVER see this movie.

4. I probably would have seen it despite a focus on the humans and and despite a bad storyline, if the Transformers just looked like TRANSFORMERS instead of silverware someone dumped loose into a drawer.

Tycho
02-01-2007, 11:32 AM
Don't you mean silverware someone got jammed in the food disposal?

El Chuxter
02-01-2007, 11:44 AM
Sideswipe and Sunstreaker were confirmed in the original TechSpecs to be twin brothers.

It was often speculated that other "sibling" pairs included Bumblebee/Cliffjumper and Frenzy/Rumble.

Tycho
02-01-2007, 02:23 PM
Yes, well it makes little sense for machines.

There must be some organic basis, probably never carbon-based, for their relations.

And even if their exteriors look alike (Sunstreaker and SideSwipe were both Lamborghini alts and are now Dodge Viper alts), that doesn't mean that their trans-scans would target the same thing - as in one could be a car, the other an SUV, just as easily.

I think "brothers in arms" could be a more rational explaination - but never for Prime and Megatron.

Droid
02-01-2007, 04:59 PM
Rather than saying they are related I think it makes more sense to admit the toymaker wanted to use the same mold more than once so the robots had the same body and different paint.

JediTricks
02-01-2007, 09:15 PM
1. Transformers have brothers? What does that mean, you were built by the same person/entity/robot? I never really thought of Transformers as having families.The Japanese have been shoehorning the concept into Transformers for a while now, I think it has something to do with the types of stories that exist in their collective societal mythos differing from our own. Personally, I think it's dopey.



2. Maybe it'll suck so much they'll redo it like I heard they are doing with a new Incredible Hulk movie.Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be likely. If it does well then Bay is on board for the 2 sequels the producers already signed on to do. If it does badly the buzz is that the franchise will be seen as a total flop and unusable. The only way I can see your idea happening is if it completely fails in the US but makes a fair chunk of change overseas, where studios see those audiences as having lesser tastes, but even that is a gamble that may end up bringing Bay back or dropping the budget to something horrendous.


4. I probably would have seen it despite a focus on the humans and and despite a bad storyline, if the Transformers just looked like TRANSFORMERS instead of silverware someone dumped loose into a drawer.VERY understandable! I see them more as a magnetized junk pile that someone stood upright though. :p



Sideswipe and Sunstreaker were confirmed in the original TechSpecs to be twin brothers.I wouldn't consider techspecs to be canon, they're written kinda junky.


It was often speculated that other "sibling" pairs included Bumblebee/Cliffjumper and Frenzy/Rumble.Cheesy, especially for Bumblebee/Cliffjumper since Cliffjumper has a different head and a different vehicle mode (he's a penny-racers version of a Toyota I believe)


Rather than saying they are related I think it makes more sense to admit the toymaker wanted to use the same mold more than once so the robots had the same body and different paint.Actually, in Chux's example, they're different molds from the same origin line that transform in totally different ways, the only thing they have in common is their alt modes are BASED around the same car (they don't apply this in the same way though). I think they shouldn't address it at all when using recolors, they shouldn't pull this "Super _____" crap where it's the same guy either though.

JediTricks
02-05-2007, 04:23 AM
Some more CGI movie concept images, they're large but not terribly clear:
Starscream: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=122313
Ironhide: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=122318
Bonecrusher: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=122326
and Frenzy: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=122320

Dude, Frenzy sucks so bad they don't even know in that art what he's supposed to turn into exactly! He looks like Transmutate's even lamer cousin! Glad to see Bay's "realism" at work here. :p What a joke.

Tycho
02-05-2007, 05:45 AM
Starscream bothers me the most here.

DarthQuack
02-05-2007, 08:02 AM
Ugh...it's so horrible how everything looks so jagedy and sharp.

El Chuxter
02-05-2007, 10:16 AM
What exactly is that thing that Bonecrusher turns into? I've never seen any construction equipment with 2-meter long teeth.

Soundbyte looks absolutely like poop. And Starscream would not be happy at all if he were to see the movie pictures. Not happy at all.

Tycho
02-05-2007, 11:31 AM
What exactly is that thing that Bonecrusher turns into? I've never seen any construction equipment with 2-meter long teeth.[/i][/b]

The info is spoiler sensitive, so highlight to read if you want:

::: It's a mine-clearing vehicle. I don't know why Bonecrusher turns into one, but when the Transformers arrive on earth, they are protoforms and they scan something they see and turn into it for disguise purposes. In this movie the Decepticons are already here, so contrary to that Starscream protoform toy (the commet), we do not see why (if for any reason) they choose the forms that they do. My guess is that Bonecrusher picked a vehicle he could use to observe the military from their parking lot, so he could find out if they had the information the Decepticons were looking for (the location of where they were holding the deactivated Megatron). SPOILER IN HERE:::

preacher
02-05-2007, 09:01 PM
The problem with I have most of these designs is that they bare no resemblance whatsoever with "iconic" forms. This would be like giving darth vader a fishglobe for a head and giving batman's suit more batlike ears (ala die flader mouse from the TICK).

I will say I like Jazz. And I have no issue with Optimus. Megatron needs his canon and he needs to lose those spines. Ratchet if I recall looks good. And Bumble bee looks good. At least you can sort of tell who these Bay robots are supposed to be.

Starscream and ironhide are awful. Just awful. I would never have known who these robots were supposed to be were it not for the nameplates on this pictures.

Soundbyte looks like grievous with the four arms. Could be worse I suppose. He could've looked like a gungan. He actually reminds of a character named Argus(?) from a cartoon called Robotix that aired in the mid eighties along with Big Foot and the muscle machines.

JediTricks
02-06-2007, 07:57 PM
What exactly is that thing that Bonecrusher turns into? I've never seen any construction equipment with 2-meter long teeth.It's not construction, it's military: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_%28mine_protected_vehicle%29
The teeth are part of a mine-tamping head not shown in that listing.


The problem with I have most of these designs is that they bare no resemblance whatsoever with "iconic" forms. This would be like giving darth vader a fishglobe for a head and giving batman's suit more batlike ears (ala die flader mouse from the TICK).True dat. Not just individually, but it bothers me as a design concept as a whole.

Qui-Long Gone
02-09-2007, 05:40 PM
Starscream bothers me the most here.

Looks like ol Starscream's been transforming at night into a pizza and beer delievery truck.......this vehicle makes wide turns....

This is what we call "over designing." The problem is that if you look at the characters in vehicle mode you wonder how does everything on them break down into so many jagged parts....at least the physics of the toys made sense!!!!

JediTricks
02-09-2007, 10:54 PM
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2274
Megatron's final CGI head.

Tycho
02-09-2007, 11:25 PM
I can sort of live with that. However, what they did to Starscream is unforgiveable.

Qui-Long Gone
02-10-2007, 10:28 AM
That face would freak me out if only I could tell where the face is??:upset:

Nothing says scary like Dracula/Carnivore Megatron! How was he a co-ruler with Optimus? :frus:

JediTricks
02-10-2007, 03:29 PM
I dunno how anybody can be ok with that Megatron face, it doesn't look like a strategist, it looks like tin-foil version of Aliens.


That face would freak me out if only I could tell where the face is??:upset:

Nothing says scary like Dracula/Carnivore Megatron! How was he a co-ruler with Optimus? :frus:
HA! Good ones!

mabudonicus
02-11-2007, 12:09 PM
The funniest part of that crap-tacular (honestly I can't think of strong enough language to describe it, so just think of the most horrible adjective you can, craptacular doesn't even come close) "megatron face" is looking at some of the discussion on other boards about this film- a LOT of what I would imagine are apologists are defending these new designs because somehow the G1 stuff would be impossible to make "work", and somehow the robot modes of this crap is "perfect" because it "makes sense"...

Lookin at the 2 versions, I can't for the LIFE of me figure out where all that junk comes from to make the "battle mode"... SPEAKING of which, WTF sense does it make to have "Battel Modes" for every 'bot?? I mean, they're friggin warrior robots, why should they have "civilian" forms or whatever?? I'm certain that the apologist response would be that "a society of warrior robots doesn't make sense- they are living beings and are the same as humans, wearing different clothes for different settings" which is so asinine it makes my head hurt just typing it

I hope there's a really heavy issue in the film about one of the Autobots having AIDS or something, just to REALLY kick in the "even tho they're transformers, deep down they're just like us" garbage...

How F-ing stupid this whole deal is...

Oh and thanks for the links nonetheless JT :D
:beard:Isobaws&

Tycho
02-11-2007, 03:30 PM
OK, well it's Michael Bay. When he hasn't been able to sleep at night he's been accumulating over 80 IP addresses and re-registering on the same Transformer sites, and then posting positive feedback for his own work. :D

Don Murphy has been helping but he keeps getting banned by sites that moderate offensive language, as the man sounds like Rick McCallum on a good day.

preacher
02-11-2007, 04:12 PM
The appologists are obviously Jerry's kids who don't have a scintilla(sp) of brain matter amongst them. I don't buy their notion "the G1 designs would be too difficult to make". For F--- sake Hasbro was able to make a killer - I mean killer - optimus. Sure he didn't have a trailer, but the fact that a bunch of toy makers were able to make such an awesome Optimus Prime really gave me hope that a CGI version of Prime could basically be copied from this mold. In case you didn't know there is also a masterpiece addition of Megatron that is very faithful to the generation one design. I found it yesterday I think on TF2005 website. It doesn't appear it will be sold stateside because of its similarity to a real gun. But this thing really looks sweet. I'm sure someone else has seen this thing.

Now I'm not saying that some things would need to change. I mean for startscream, lets face it, you don't see a jet that is red, blue, and grey. So Starscream's color scheme would need to change some. They could have made all the G1 jets gunmetal grey, and then rather than have starscream have a red stripe or something. But for Pete's sake he looks like one of those Grunt's from HALO.

Bottom line, I'm getting tired of these appologists saying it couldn't be done. A freaking toy company can make accurate depictions of these things that are fully transformable. The latest starscream looks like starscream - he's fully posable. So physically its possible to do all these things. What these so-called designers should have done was partner with Hasbro to determine what is physically possible. Because if its physically possible, certainly it could be done with CGI.

Frenzy....Soundwave....Soundbyte....or whoever the hell you are supposed to be - what have they done to you? Actually the design is obviously a rip off of Grievous. Grievous was a popular villain so undoubtably the designers copied this because they figured Frenzy would be popular with a general audiance.

Qui-Long Gone
02-11-2007, 05:34 PM
I had the worst dream last night that I was watching the film and Optimus turned into a zamboni....

Tycho
02-11-2007, 06:08 PM
I strongly agree with Preacher's last post. Nice job.

preacher
02-11-2007, 07:56 PM
FOUND IT! MASTERPIECE MEGS

Check this sucker out. Although I'm sure most of you already know about him.

Man I wish our politicians would get an f-in clue and realize that this is a toy so we would see this thing.

Not too good with the forum tools.

http://www.betatoys.com/-strse-149/Megatron-Masterpiece-Transformer-Takara/Detail.bok

This would be incredible to see on the big screen!

Droid
02-11-2007, 08:58 PM
I always thought they should address the Megatron as a toy problem by selling him as a robot that WON'T transform and then sell him with a small version of himself as a gun that the other Decepticons could hold. But in all fiction he should still look like G1 Megatron and SHOULD transform into a gun.

Tycho
02-11-2007, 10:06 PM
I'm sure you could order him from Japan or someplace and get this toy. I ordered Starscream from there.

He ships as a robot, so customs may not mess with it at all.

JediTricks
02-13-2007, 03:09 PM
Legally, all they'd need to do is paint the barrel orange, but Hasbro's afraid of being sued by parents with kids who got killed by cops thinking they were armed.

Bay lacks imagination, that's why this movie has a gajillion moving parts on the bots and why it's an alien invasion flick - that's the bottom line, the movie is being ruined because Bay is a hack.

Tycho
02-15-2007, 09:20 AM
This was added as an update to the TFW2005 review from the guys who saw it at Toy Fair:

UPDATE:


A couple more insights, now that I've traveled home in the ice and had some time to absorb it all.

- I personally was never a "hater" of the movie. I am in the middle, more of a "I wish it was more this way, but I hope whatever they do is good" kind of guy. I didn't go into this knowing what to expect, wasn't going to puff it up just because we got invites.

- The scenes we saw were straight off the pages of the leaked February 2006 script seen last year (our review here), minor changes here and there, expansion of dialog, action realized, etc.

- The first scenes shown were the military ones from the start of the movie, so there was a lot of human and military action shown. Cool action movie feel. The lead up to Blackout landing, and eventually Transforming was done well. I knew what was coming, and still was engaged in what was on the screen. In pure cake-boy fashion I have to say when Blackout started Transforming I got one of those well-ups in the eyes. Man tears damn it, man tears. It was just insane because even tho it's so drastically different from the original stuff, and this was a character I am not attached to, seeing this thing Transform on the big screen was a realization I think many of us have envisioned since we were kids. And this was the first time it was happening. So yeah, ***** moment. I guess it would be like watching Superman fly for the first time on the big screen, or Spider-Man whipping around for the first time, if you were a life long fan of them.

- The scenes with Sam and Makeela were what we are expecting. However, Shia Labeouff has really good timing, and he relays the awkward teen with hot chick jitters well. You shouldn't be "enough already, get to the good stuff" - too much.

- When reading the leaked script a while back, the part that stood out the most was the "house scene", where Sam and the Autobots interact for the first time in major dialog. There was humor, amazement (for you and the characters), lots of WOW factor going on. They try to hit that feeling you got when you first saw Transformers way back when. Watching it come to life on the big screen was awesome, they did it well. The way they moved, especially Bumblebee, and the scenario of a group of 30 foot tall robots trying to hide in a suburban back yard was perfect.

- One thing that I am iffy on, was before and still am, is the whole thread of the movie that deals with Scorponok. When reading, I just didn't care. I thought that whole angle could have stopped after the end of the base scene. Instead, we follow the military guys running through Arabia, and going head to head with Scorponok. The action there was insane, big time action movie explosions and such. But, Scorponok looks retarded in my opinion, within the scope of the Movie styles, and really, who cares. Run, fight, boom, fight some more, focus on character development, blah blah, robot dies, and real movie starts. When watching it last night, I was kind of feeling the same way. After what we saw before it, (they showed this out of order and last), I was not into it. My 2 cents, trim that down to as little screen time as possible. Of note tho, the human interaction there was interesting, the military guys (Tyreese, Josh Duhamel , et al.) did a good job. Just wish that part of the story didn't even exist.


Overall I think this is what should be relayed to the fans.

- Seeing them move, interact, "emote" as Bay termed it on stage before the event, makes a world of difference. It won't convert the pure haters, but it should convert you middle of the road folks.

- These things look alive. No Energon/Cybertron style animation here, big blocks fumbling around. The body movements mixed with "facial expressions" bring them to life. And the graphics weren't even done yet.

- There are going to be a ton of throw back moments in this thing, nodding to the fans, we already saw a chunk and this was just a short sample.

- CLASSIC TF SOUND WILL BE USED. LOUD AND CLEAR. Its appearance here was quickly dubbed in, but bottom line is they wanted us to know it will be there, so yay!

- Voices sound good. Cullen had a couple lines. Very deep, not as John Wayne-ish. Robot-Effects on the voices. GOOD Robo-Effects, which I'm sure are also not done. Nothing even close to the recent cartoon garbage applied to the Armada/Energon/Cybertron Autobots. I am a sound guy and I really dug it.

- Ratchet and Ironhide had a couple lines. Very non-distinctive voices, similar to Cullen, but 90% sure it was not him. Hopefully, just fillers.

- Megan Fox is frikkin hot. So while all that kiddie "my car is herbie" crap is going on, just shut up and watch her.

- I think it will be easy to forget about the fact these things aren't G1, and look weird, for 2 hours and just enjoy it for what it is, even if you really wanted it to be G1. The fact that giant Transforming robots are on the screen will capture you. You can remember the fact you were ****ed about things and return to *****ing later that night.

- This is big. Dreamworks wants it to be big, Hasbro wants it to be big, and the stuff we saw was big time, non-cheese. It will be around for a while, so get used to it. New era is here.

And done.

We would like to thank Hasbro, Paramount, and Dreamworks for allowing TFW2005 to attend the event.

It helps me face the film with more optimism.

El Chuxter
02-15-2007, 09:33 AM
But if it's still the leaked script, then Bumblebee still poops on people.

If you've not been able to tell, I have a major problem with that.

Droid
02-15-2007, 10:32 AM
- There are going to be a ton of throw back moments in this thing, nodding to the fans, we already saw a chunk and this was just a short sample.

- Voices sound good. Cullen had a couple lines. Very deep, not as John Wayne-ish. Robot-Effects on the voices. GOOD Robo-Effects, which I'm sure are also not done. Nothing even close to the recent cartoon garbage applied to the Armada/Energon/Cybertron Autobots. I am a sound guy and I really dug it.

- I think it will be easy to forget about the fact these things aren't G1, and look weird, for 2 hours and just enjoy it for what it is, even if you really wanted it to be G1. The fact that giant Transforming robots are on the screen will capture you. You can remember the fact you were ****ed about things and return to *****ing later that night.[/I]

So there will be a lot of nods to the fans, with the exception of the Transformers being unrecognizable?

So Cullen is doing the voice, but it doesn't sound like the same Optimus? Is that what he is saying? Then what is the point of having Cullen at all?

I don't think it will be easy to forget that they aren't G1.

Oh wait, I'm not seeing this movie. Maybe it will be easy to forget as I think about other things the whole time this movie is in theaters and I am not seeing it.

Tycho
02-15-2007, 12:36 PM
But if it's still the leaked script, then Bumblebee still poops on people.

If you've not been able to tell, I have a major problem with that.

As I read in the script, it is a scene similar to when R2D2 sprays oil on the Super Battle Droids aboard The Invisible Hand.

BumbleBee doesn't "poop" on them, but rather sort of whizzes on them in a way. I'm sure they don't depict that suggestively.

El Chuxter
02-15-2007, 12:46 PM
If you'll think back to what I posted in May 2005, that was the point where ROTS went straight into the toilet for me.

Tycho
02-15-2007, 12:48 PM
Do you have a problem with anything in movies that is suggestive of going to the bathroom?

I mean in Indpendence Day, Will Smith is shown actually taking a real whizz.

Kidhuman
02-15-2007, 12:55 PM
I watched the trailer again on IMDB this morning and god does this movie look like carp.

El Chuxter
02-15-2007, 01:04 PM
No, but robots going to the bathroom is dumb no matter how you cut it.

Unless it's Awesome-O.

Tycho
02-15-2007, 04:06 PM
Chuxter, I talked to R2-D2 and he is upset with you that you didn't appreciate his Oscar-worthy escape stunt in ROTS.

Furthermore, I have a personal relationship with Mouse Droids and I don't even need to tell you how much trouble you'd be in if you have any problems with their performances.

Might I remind you that the Mouse Droids actually look like little pieces of crap rolling around the floor, especially ROTS' mini-Mice, but some of us stick those Mice in our nose. But you won't catch me putting real **** up my nose. Mouse Droids are a unique lifeform deserving of our respect even though one could make a comparison of them with toilet humor.

Extending that back to R2D2 and BumbleBee, and even Ironhide's frequent G1 references to "Leaking lubricant!," I see a case where you'll owe at least one droid and one Autobot an appology, Chux!

Qui-Long Gone
02-15-2007, 10:38 PM
Don't worry Chux, after this movie comes out they'll be a lot of appologies going out.....:thumbsup:

Maybe if there is a long bathroom scene with autobots taking dumps in the decepticon's toilets the movie might get my attention....

Tycho
02-16-2007, 12:06 AM
Here's new footage from everyone's "favorite director" (El Chuxter and JediTricks are big fans!) (http://www.mtv.com/overdrive/?id=1552516)

By the way, you shouldn't have to install anything to watch this. But it's the MTV interview at Toy Fair!

El Chuxter
02-16-2007, 12:16 AM
"Are there any Transformers you'd like to include in a sequel?"

"I can't tell you. The script hasn't been written yet."

Oh, that shows a deep love for the property there. Mr Bay, you can't tell us because you don't know any others! (Seriously, talking about "bigger," wouldn't Devastator and Grimlock be pretty damned obvious.)

And get a freaking haircut. This isn't 1989.

But Armageddon is a cool movie. Maybe when the fanboys all gang up and flay you to death, I might ask that they give you a chance to take a few painkillers first since Armageddon was quite enjoyable.

preacher
02-16-2007, 08:17 PM
Tycho,

Cool review man. I hope that one of the nods to fans will be an orchestra arrangement of the transformers theme.

Can't say you've convinced me though - I just can't get past chia-pet, robo-kong and grievous-part deux standing in for Megatron, starscream, and Frenzy respectfully.

For me it would take making most of the decepticons not looking as freakish. Exceptions being Brawl and Blackout.

I can understand that Bay is trying to show that the decepticons are evil by making them look so bizarre, but for god sake I think the point would already be made when the decepticons are attacking and killing military personel. He's kind of insulting the general audience's intelligence and assuming people wouldn't get that the decepticons are evil unless they looked like mechanical demons.

I actually like just about all the autobots designs. I just can't fathom why they color Ironhide like that. Wouldn't Bay want him to stand out as in make him a red truck as opposed to black?

I'm sure I will get a lump in my throat if and when I watch this. I had that very reaction for Superman Returns during the opening credits while the Superman fanfare was blasting away.

JediTricks
02-17-2007, 05:27 AM
The write-ups I've seen from the toy fair footage surprised me in that this movie seems sillier than I expected, robots hiding in a kid's back yard? What the hell is the point of them being IN DISGUISE then?!? Do we really need shenanigans ripped from crappy sitcom gags of hiding the weirdos from the parents?

I also notice they're starting to cave on all the little stuff to stem the tide of the eroding audience, but adding the sound effect won't change how the robots look crappy and the movie isn't true to Transformers.


No, but robots going to the bathroom is dumb no matter how you cut it.

Unless it's Awesome-O.Awesome-O is not a real robot, it's just a fat kid in a cardboard box-suit.


"Are there any Transformers you'd like to include in a sequel?"

"I can't tell you. The script hasn't been written yet."

Oh, that shows a deep love for the property there. Mr Bay, you can't tell us because you don't know any others! (Seriously, talking about "bigger," wouldn't Devastator and Grimlock be pretty damned obvious.)Damn good point Chux! The guy has so little knowledge of the franchise he has to shrug and say "dunno".


For me it would take making most of the decepticons not looking as freakish. Exceptions being Brawl and Blackout.

I can understand that Bay is trying to show that the decepticons are evil by making them look so bizarre, but for god sake I think the point would already be made when the decepticons are attacking and killing military personel. He's kind of insulting the general audience's intelligence and assuming people wouldn't get that the decepticons are evil unless they looked like mechanical demons.Bay's actually a very limited director in terms of that kind of imagination, plus since the Transformers are barely characters, the only way to convey them as bad is to make them look 100 times scarier than "Aliens" and "Predator" and all that jazz so that when the generic alien robots invade, stuff can happen unhindered by stuff like CHARACTER and PLOT.

Tycho
02-19-2007, 12:12 PM
Megatron Enters Re-Hab Clinic; Starscream Vows Weightloss For Image Change

AP- Hollywood

Following in the wake of multiple celebrities entering treatment programs and appologizing for insensitive remarks being made, several Transformers have proven to be no exception.

Megatron has entered the Betty Ford Clinic in an attempt to wean his over-consumption of energon. Quite simply, if he continues on his unhealthy course he's been following, he'll consume all the earth's energy and there will be nothing much left to fight over. Therapists are trying to help him re-develop his identity and come to terms with his disorder. In the meanwhile, Megatron has taken a blowtorch to himself and shaved off his superfluous metal trimmings that stylist Michael Bay once added to him for his look he sported during the production of his new movie due in theaters this summer, which wrapped a major portion of its filming last year. As part of his cleaning up his image, Megatron also scraped dead US military personnel off his feet that he'd stepped on during the course of his own stunt work he also did for this film.

Meanwhile, Starscream has been disgruntled and quoted that he looks in the mirror and sees himself turning into some kind of bug-headed gorilla. This is completely unacceptable, so he has invaded a small middle-eastern nation and promises to yeild its sovereignty to Oprah Winfrey if she will help him shed some pounds in the right places.

Ironhide has recently stumbled publically, and said he may have made some statements that were insensitive to Decepticons. He vows that in the future, he will just try to kill them and not hurt their feelings by making remarks about their structural maintainance. He realizes now that he is not really one to talk.

Meanwhile, Mirage's press agent has issued a statement explaining his lack of involvement with the latest motion picture project. The Autobot winner of the Indianapolis 500 had recently decided to lend his wealth and fame to the anti-war cause and was seen at protests with Jane Fonda (or not seen). Mirage's cloaking device was malfunctioning and he couldn't disengage it, so fans should look for a visible distortion close to Fonda at anti-war rallies if they want to spot Mirage until Ratchet can disengage himself from his movie promotional tours to come and correct his friend's problems.

2-1B
02-19-2007, 03:18 PM
Not only is Chux an EU hater, he's a movie hater as well. Star Wars and Transformers.

Seriously guys, WTF is up with this TF movie? Everything I hear about it makes it sound worse and worse all the time...how bad is this going to get ? :eek:

JediTricks
02-19-2007, 05:07 PM
It is to be the entertainment equivalent of a black hole, where no quality can escape, any attempt at non-crappiness will be sucked into the core and crushed into nothing, and no quality can escape its clutches or even be seen by outside observers.

2-1B
02-19-2007, 05:18 PM
I looked it up on IMDb and they have this long cast listing....WHY it doesn't read as a laundry list of Robot voices versus a list of human characters is beyond me. :confused:

Qui-Long Gone
02-20-2007, 08:43 PM
It's so you won't know who to hate more, the humans or the robots....

2-1B
02-20-2007, 09:20 PM
or the director.

JediTricks
02-21-2007, 05:04 AM
That inspired my latest sigline addition:

You know something's wrong when the director is the real villain of the movie.

Unfortunately, Bay is not the only director-as-archvillain

Qui-Long Gone
02-21-2007, 06:34 PM
Although he is the most evil one....he's like the Joker without a conscience....

JediTricks
02-21-2007, 06:43 PM
I dunno why, but that one felt a little awkward when I read it aloud, so I changed it up slightly:

You know something's wrong with a movie when the flick's real villain is its director.

None could do more damage to the film, and won't somebody think of the children?!?: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2440

El Chuxter
02-21-2007, 06:45 PM
You posted that in another thread, and I already posted the "avatar-friendly" version for anyone who wants to use it.

Qui-Long Gone
02-21-2007, 06:45 PM
My God The Cgi Characters Are Worse Than We Thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tycho
02-26-2007, 04:55 AM
Yeah. Look at this one:

Qui-Long Gone
02-27-2007, 12:19 AM
The new Megatron looks HORRIBLE!!!

Tycho
02-27-2007, 05:38 PM
The new Megatron looks HORRIBLE!!!

That's MichaelTron and Stevimus Primeberg:

Tycho
03-12-2007, 09:04 PM
IMDB is reporting that Frank Welker has been cast once again as Megatron!

Some have questioned whether this report is reliable - just so it is noted.

Many have commented that it seems awfully late to be doing the voice mixes. But maybe not.

"DECEPTICONS: Attack!"

This photo shows Peter Cullen (Optimus Prime) and Frank Welker reunited. It appears to be very recent and it is not known to be from any BotCon or the likes, but might be at Dreamworks' studio.

Maybe they're smiling because they both just killed Michael Bay?

The picture, without the images of their robot counterparts, supposedly came from Shei LeBouf's website.

JediTricks
03-12-2007, 10:33 PM
Don "The Producer" Murphy says the IMDB thing is bullcrap and no decision has been made yet. Wow, what a shocker, bad info from IMDB, whouda thunk? :p

Megs is apparently barely in the movie, I'm betting they could wait till May to cast him and still get it done, it's not exactly the same kind of laborious process as it is to CGI and act a movie out.

Tycho
03-13-2007, 02:14 AM
You know what's funny about that picture? They don't look like a pair of arch enemies preparing to do combat. They look more like:

Droid
03-13-2007, 08:37 AM
Welker almost looks more like Megatron than that CGI monstrosity.

El Chuxter
03-13-2007, 09:42 AM
Welker looks a lot like my neighbor, Totoro. :D

Tycho
03-14-2007, 08:55 AM
TFW2005 posted a new image from Edwards AirForce Base with all the real-life Autobots, plus Starscream and Barricade which shows their actual scale very nicely.

El Chuxter
03-14-2007, 09:32 AM
Man, if only we knew that the nosecone of the jet folded over, the wings rotated, the jets extended, and the arms popped out, instead of it disassembling into a giant Bionicle, my outlook for this film would be so much better.

El Chuxter
03-14-2007, 11:31 AM
Sorry for the double post, but there's an interview with the writers at MTV.com (http://www.mtv.com/movies/#/movies/news/articles/1554426/20070312/story.jhtml).

Of particular interest:


Are there two men who fanboys envy more than Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman? Not only is this prolific writing duo behind the latest installments of the "Zorro" and "Mission: Impossible" franchises, but now they are knee-deep in reinventing "Star Trek" and everyone's favorite robots in disguise, the Transformers.

Oh boy! The latest Zorro and Mission Impossible! The ones that sucked!!


Orci: A lot of the die-hard fans say, "Why does it have to have humans at all?" You can't be a robot in disguise if there's nobody to hide from! A human's point of view is implicit in the way they are sold.

Oy vey. :rolleyes:


At every turn, Michael was a great compass for us. He was very much our partner. He's really always wanted to do a kids movie and had never found the vehicle. This was clearly the one.

A "kids" [sic] movie? I suppose that's why it narrowly avoided an R rating.


Orci: We pitched him a boy and his car. "E.T." with action.

"A boy and his car." Because that's what I remember best about Transformers.


Orci: Our first draft centered almost exclusively on the kids. That draft represented the emotional heart of the movie. Much of its structure stayed, but when it came time to do the second draft, we realized we needed to bolster it with the disaster-movie paradigm, following a couple other stories and showing that the Transformers arriving is a global phenomenon. The second draft was much more about the action.

In other words, "Michael asked us to make the story more formulaic, as he doesn't know how to do movies that aren't predictable from the very first scene."


MTV: Considering the large canon of Transformers material out there, was this an especially daunting script to approach?

Kurtzman: Part of what made it a daunting task was that there weren't really any human characters that made a mark [in the cartoon]. We ended up going back to the comic books for initial inspiration for that.

What? Did these idiots ever actually watch the cartoon? Spike, Sparkplug, Chip, Carly, Daniel, Dr Archevil....

If you want to go the comics route, human characters were fleshed out just enough to balance the giant robots. Not giant robots as pets. In fact, they were almost totally gone after about two years.

In the comics, Buster got a used car, and found out shortly it was Bumblebee. That's the only similarity. Bumblebee didn't try to play Sade to get Jessie to make out with him.


MTV: There's been a lot of talk about Bumblebee in the film. Will Bumblebee only communicate through songs played on his radio?

Orci: [They pause.] The editing room will decide.

Oh. My. God. Wow. Words fail me. Suffice to say, that comment just made this movie seem even more like a train wreck than everything else I've read about it.


Orci: So much of the movie is like a war movie. It's like "Saving Private Ryan" with Transformers. Some of it is very intense. And the third act is mind-blowing.

Wait.... I could've sworn that you yourself said this was a kids' movie, more ET with robots. I don't believe it is humanly possible to make a movie that's simultaneously like ET and Saving Private Ryan.

Every time I think my hopes for this film can't get any lower, I see something like this.

Droid
03-14-2007, 02:25 PM
These gus are reinventing Star Trek? What are they doing to Star Trek?

mabudonicus
03-14-2007, 03:35 PM
Droid- I think there's a re-make of the Original going on from little bits I've heard, Matt Damon as kirk or some such nonsense is all I recall...

Chux, HOLY COW that is an... interesting read, I honestly can
t isolate any one part of it to even comment tho, that is some IDIOTIC CRAP they said to MTV...

OK maybe Bumblebee with the "musical talk" they should go and have him saying "F^%& OFF I'm NOT TALKIN TO YOU!!!!!" as the theme song, while the opening titles roll.

:beard:Isobaws&

JediTricks
03-15-2007, 04:48 PM
Oh boy! The latest Zorro and Mission Impossible! The ones that sucked!!I heard nothing terribly negative about MI3, but heard the worst scorn for Legend of Zorro - I avoided them both. I wonder why nobody ever mentions that these guys also wrote Bay's only flop, "The Island", as well as writing and producing on Xena and Hercules - the pantheon of bad writing (pun intended).


A "kids" [sic] movie? I suppose that's why it narrowly avoided an R rating.It actually got an R, it was only on appeal that they gave it a PG-13. That's been Bay's goal since day 1, he wants in on a "family" franchise because he knows where the money is at, but he's so inept and has so little understanding of it that it got the R rating until Spielberg threw his weight around to get it kicked down to a hard PG-13 (Spielberg was the one who forced the MPAA to create that rating in the first place when he made Indiana Jones & Temple of Doom for kids and its heavy scary violence got it an R which he fought down to a PG and then suggested the new, toothless PG-13).


"A boy and his car." Because that's what I remember best about Transformers.What do you expect from guys whose claim to being fans is that they owned some of the toys back in the day? They have no idea what they're doing, it seems like. ET with action, really? That's what Transformers is to these people? Because it's not to anybody else who knows who Optimus Prime is from the mid-'80s.


What? Did these idiots ever actually watch the cartoon? Spike, Sparkplug, Chip, Carly, Daniel, Dr Archevil....I've never seen them say they have actually, when they said they were fans from the old days they only referred to the toys, as I mentioned above. They have no understanding of the franchise, they remember their handful of toys, they probably watched a few eps on DVD recently and decided not to go that route, then heard there were comics and found a way to pick-n-choose what would fit the stuff they already wrote as backup.


Oh. My. God. Wow. Words fail me. Suffice to say, that comment just made this movie seem even more like a train wreck than everything else I've read about it.I know, and I bet they think they're original with this too, I bet they don't even realize the Junkions in the original movie did something similar and it was annoying and stupid. It's going to completely undermine the Bumblebee character, though making him a Camaro already does that, and the only reason to use it is to explain why Bumblebee can be bought and sold without saying a word - basically they're trying to lift from Herbie the Love Bug more than Transformers.



These gus are reinventing Star Trek? What are they doing to Star Trek?They're raping it. JJ Abrams is producing/directing a TOS prequel about young Kirk and Spock meeting at Starfleet Academy. This is a premise that's been floating around for a decade and shouldn't be allowed to be made but somehow it is happening. And, like Enterprise, they're going to "reimagine" Trek's past rather than try to stay faithful. These guys should be banned from hollywood, bring back the blacklist for hacks like this.

Droid
03-16-2007, 10:30 AM
JJ Abrams is producing/directing a TOS prequel about young Kirk and Spock meeting at Starfleet Academy. This is a premise that's been floating around for a decade and shouldn't be allowed to be made but somehow it is happening. And, like Enterprise, they're going to "reimagine" Trek's past rather than try to stay faithful. These guys should be banned from hollywood, bring back the blacklist for hacks like this.

I didn't know the Transformers people were involved. I started a thread about this and how I am nervous given Abrams' plans for Superman before Singer took over. (including Krypton not having been destroyed and Superman having a magic suit to name a few). Everyone should go check it out. It didn't generate much interest.

Tycho
03-16-2007, 02:19 PM
Hey Cappy:

There were some really funny links on that page to "Virginia napkins and road signs," etc. Thanks. I had a good laugh.

CaptainSolo1138
03-16-2007, 02:36 PM
Man, the best line in that is in the beginning when he's talking about the fanboys fearing the movie:


You know the fear. That same gripping fanboy fear that sent you into a cold sweat the second Jar Jar Binks first appeared on screen, and you were praying to whatever gods would listen that it wasn't real, please god let this be the wrong theater, let me have accidentally walked into some Disney movie by mistake, but all along you knew deep down that George Lucas was standing there holding the smoking gun that just destroyed your happy childhood memories, standing there laughing at you as he rubbed your eight dollars all over his body, concentrating mostly on the nipple area.

2-1B
03-16-2007, 03:51 PM
It could have been worse...he could have rubbed elsewhere than the nipple area.

JT's comparison to Herbie the Love Bug cracked me up. lol lol lol

JimJamBonds
03-17-2007, 08:54 AM
I'm not so sure about the cgi and story etc but Megan Fox looks nice.

Tycho
03-17-2007, 09:04 AM
I'm not so sure about the cgi and story etc but Megan Fox looks nice.


Oh I have to agree! Here's "Mikaela" getting underneath BumbleBee's hood. :love:

And they say he's no longer a love-bug in this film!

El Chuxter
03-17-2007, 08:36 PM
Ah, but cute girls are egg-schangeable! Egg-cept for the lovely Olga. And my coll-egg, Catwoman (though she comes in an egg-zquisite variety of colors).

Suffice to say, this film will make lots of money for the Legion of Doom!

2-1B
03-18-2007, 10:02 AM
yeah Tycho, it looks like the cars aren't the only thing transforming in this movie.

Tycho
03-19-2007, 12:00 AM
yeah Tycho, it looks like the cars aren't the only thing transforming in this movie.

I know. I look at Megan Fox's picture and I have to remind myself - "Oh yeah - this picture's also about transforming robots from another planet or something."

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-24-2007, 11:02 PM
Saw this at comingsoon.net and thought you folks might wanna know:


Hugo Weaving to Voice Megatron
Source: SectorSeven.org March 24, 2007


The Transformers movie promo site SectorSeven.org has revealed that Hugo Weaving ("The Matrix" trilogy, "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy, V For Vendetta) will voice Megatron in director Michael Bay's big screen adaptation, opening July 4.

You can access the site using the password "NBETWO." Then click on the scorpion at the bottom and you'll get a list of e-mails. Click the first one, "Counter-Information Campaign," and you can read the e-mail that reveals the casting.

Source: CS.net.

Tycho
03-24-2007, 11:11 PM
That sucks. I wanted Frank Welker, the classic Megatron.

I heard something else about the movie: Michael Bay was going to pretend he knew what he was doing as the director. What a great role for him :rolleyes: .

Tycho
03-24-2007, 11:26 PM
I edited an image of Michael Bay in a toilet with a youngster making use of it.

The image might have been inappropriate. I asked KidHuman's opinion but he logged off before he saw it I think. I will PM the image to JT or ElChuxter and see if they think it's alright, and after they print a copy for their own wall poster :D I'll restore the pic to this thread should it pass the test.

My intention is to be funny because I'm a funny guy. :)

El Chuxter
03-25-2007, 10:40 AM
I like Hugo Weaving.

I'm not sure he's Megatron material.

JediTricks
03-25-2007, 09:58 PM
I really think Welker's Megatron is a crappy acting job, he sounds like a dumb thug, not a strategic genius and leader of minions. That said, while I like Hugo Weaving's acting, the moment I saw and heard him in LOTR all I could think was "Mister Anderson".

preacher
03-25-2007, 10:40 PM
Hmmmm. Hugo Weaving. Agent Smith, elf, and V. V was nothing short of strategic genius. I just hope they don't cheese up Megatron with over the top flair that V had with poetry and crap.

Its different thats for sure.

JediTricks
03-30-2007, 05:46 PM
Well, IGN has posted the first TV spot, called "Hidden", it's got a little tiny bit of Optimus transforming, Frenzy transforms and is seen in bot mode, frozen Megatron is shown from a distance, there's an action shot of a bot having a missile fired at it and firing a missile back (missiles? DUMB!!!) and more: http://media.movies.ign.com/media/568/568421/vids_1.html

IMO, all the full-sized bots look like a tangle of generic parts.

Tycho
03-30-2007, 06:04 PM
I just watched it and then played it over and over again while listening to "Nothing's Gonna Stand In Our Way" by Spectre General from the first cartoon movie soundtrack and it is awesome!

There are many things about it that I wish were different, but I'm going to keep hoping!

I'll be there opening day (not the midnight show though - it takes away from enjoying a film if you're too tired to follow it).

JediTricks
03-30-2007, 06:25 PM
If you download the WMV one, windows media player has a setting that will let you play it back in slo-mo, you can select the speed. it's under playback options.

Tycho
03-31-2007, 12:32 AM
Starscream transforms in this one: Sector 7 Trailer! (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2018804403)

Dude, you also see the majority of BumbleBee's first transformation and Sam meeting him and discovering what he really is!

[Edit] - I slowed down the trailer and caught Sam rubbing his finger on the center of the Camarro's steering wheel - it's engraved with the Autobot symbol! Dude that's cool!

This movie keeps looking better and better. They've upped their public relations campaign it seems.

Victory is made from the ashes of one's enemies! - Starscream

JediTricks
03-31-2007, 05:03 AM
Funny, I really disliked this trailer. Lardscream looks even more ridiculous in action, the yellow beetle in the beginning is just a mean-spirited addition, I didn't care for Bumblemaro transforming - it just looked like everything was folding out of a shell all crazy-like. The boy and his car stuff totally doesn't say Transformers to me at all.

Tycho
03-31-2007, 08:17 AM
In the first new trailer that JT linked to, that's Ironhide twisting and falling sideways (to appear to land on his back). He's firing a missle.

mabudonicus
03-31-2007, 12:42 PM
Okay, I officially have to declare tham "transformations" as the CRAPPIEST THING OF ALL TIME......

WOW does that ever suck- not to overuse the phrase, but words fail me even harder than I thought they ever could :beard:Isobaws&

JediTricks
03-31-2007, 03:38 PM
In the first new trailer that JT linked to, that's Ironhide twisting and falling sideways (to appear to land on his back). He's firing a missle.Yes, this is a traditional Michael Bay slo-mo shot with villains firing and heroes and heroes returning the favor, it's not originally his but he's the one that's turned it into an offensively overused cliche.

Like I care which tangled mess is which.


Okay, I officially have to declare tham "transformations" as the CRAPPIEST THING OF ALL TIME......

WOW does that ever suck- not to overuse the phrase, but words fail me even harder than I thought they ever could :beard:Isobaws&So you're saying they didn't do it for you Mabs? ;) Yeah, suckity suck suck is what they are, so naturally the AICN types that don't give a hoot about Transformers or entertainment beyond overbudgeted action crap are gonna love it.

General_Grievous
03-31-2007, 04:15 PM
As of right now, I'm looking at "Transformers" as "Independence Day" meets "Small Soldiers". I wouldn't neccessarily call it a bad thing, but I'll keep my judgment until I see the movie.

2-1B
03-31-2007, 09:18 PM
I'm going to have to quote Lando on this one, "This deal keeps getting worse all the time."

Bel-Cam Jos
03-31-2007, 09:55 PM
Having seen a trailer now, I move this one into the "probably see" category, but not on opening day.

JediTricks
04-01-2007, 08:39 PM
As of right now, I'm looking at "Transformers" as "Independence Day" meets "Small Soldiers". I wouldn't neccessarily call it a bad thing, but I'll keep my judgment until I see the movie.Small Soldiers, really? I loathed that film, one of the few films I really considered asking for my ticket money back, but that wouldn't have gotten me my 2 hours.

JediTricks
04-02-2007, 03:09 PM
3 new fully-rendered bot pictures at Yahoo, including Bonecrusher vs Prime:
http://movies.yahoo.com/slideshows/generic/transformersexclusives.html

Tycho
04-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Looks good actually. Really exciting. I wanna see Optimus Prime rip him apart!

I like how they got the red eyes / blue eyes thing on the Decepticons / Autobots done correctly there. Did someone teach Michael his primary colors over the weekend?

It looks like BoneCrusher will be Prime's size - meaning Megatron and Starscream could seem large enough to crush Prime with their bare hands (uh - doesn't Megatron always claim he wants to do this anyway?)

Well, "One shall stand and one shall fall!"

mabudonicus
04-02-2007, 03:47 PM
I dunno, I think it's a bad thing when I REALLY prefer stills to action shots, isn't it???

I actually showed a few folks that one trailer (the one JT accurately assessed "didn't DO it" for me" ;) ) and the sentiments were pretty much unanimous.

NO one I showed it to could get past the "car driving down the road EXPLODES into a cloud of a million digital pieces, then re-forms into a crazy, obviously fake 'robot' of some sort, which moves SO fast you can't really make ANYTHING out" effect of it, and I doubt it'll be any easier on the head/eyes on a huge screen

The "robots" (I'm sorry, I can no longer even refer to them as Transformers, just the word robots in parentheses, like I'm making the quote marks with my hands while tryping- prolly scrunching up my face in disgust, too) don't even look like they're in the same film, and that's only in a small version, I am pretty sure this will look like a Carp-Storm.....

Dammit, looks like we're getting "Transformers in Disguise" instead of "Transformers"... disguises so perfect that I REFUSE to recognize them

And THAT is THAT
:beard:Isobaws&

Tycho
04-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Which trailer is this?


car driving down the road EXPLODES into a cloud of a million digital pieces, then re-forms into a crazy, obviously fake 'robot' of some sort

I've seen "Hidden" and "Destiny" plus the main theater trailer and teaser. But I never saw any car transform while speeding.

I've heard Michael Bay all excited about describing that shot - just haven't seen it. Link? Info? (like who is it transforming?)

JediTricks
04-02-2007, 04:03 PM
A friend of mine pointed out that Bonecrusher is in pretty much the same pose in both those Yahoo pics, and it's more akin to ice skating than anything else.

That first shot REEKS of Bay - flames, over-posed action, I bet it's in slo-mo too.

No surprise, you can't really make out anything of their faces.



NO one I showed it to could get past the "car driving down the road EXPLODES into a cloud of a million digital pieces, then re-forms into a crazy, obviously fake 'robot' of some sort, which moves SO fast you can't really make ANYTHING out" effect of it, and I doubt it'll be any easier on the head/eyes on a huge screen
This is a great expression of that problem, it really does seem like a lot of moving digital piecey junk forming into a tangle, and not only is it moving so fast you can't make it out, but the pieciness of it is so crazy you can't really make out parts from other parts unless they're wearing a silly loose shell piece.

mabudonicus
04-02-2007, 04:25 PM
it really does seem like a lot of moving digital piecey junk forming into a tangle, and not only is it moving so fast you can't make it out, but the pieciness of it is so crazy you can't really make out parts from other parts unless they're wearing a silly loose shell piece.
That, too, is a pretty good description, we should make it a contest :D

It SMACKS of many car commercials (I'm sure there'e been more than one that uses it) where it's one o them "We've REMADE the Truck" and it shows graphics which go from blue-print or whatever, to frame and all the pieces fly in from different directions, which is usually followed by a bright flash and the computer generatedvehicle being replaced by the real thing..

I HATES me them commercials, too....
:beard:Isobaws&

Tycho
04-02-2007, 04:39 PM
I can't take it any more. My comic book shop got in the prequel novel to the movie (takes place prior to the film's story - perhaps some of it on Cybertron?) and I'm going to have to read it today!

It's by Alan Dean Foster, who hits and misses with his novels (the novelization to "A New Hope" is kind of bad, linguistically and grammatically speaking).

"Before the Storm," the pre-AOTC book about the Ansion mission (Kenobi, Skywalker, Undulli, Offee) wasn't that bad actually. I've heard his Star Trek stuff is better.

But while I'm often in awe over James Luceno's work, I have enough of an ego to think I can write (and have written) circles around Foster. But we'll see when I pick up the Transformers novel.

And while I really wanted to write Star Wars but was praised and then told by Lucasfilm to go and do my own independent stuff. Has Foster? He didn't create Star Trek, Star Wars, or Transformers, but he sure can milk them. I bet he'd write a prequel to Jack@ss if given the opportunity. :rolleyes:

However, I'm probably just jealous because I'd write for all 3 of these franchises if given the opportunity myself.

That being said, I'm even more jealous of my favorite SW author, Luceno (Labrynth of Evil, Cloak of Deception, Dark Lord, Hero's Trial, Jedi Eclipse - he's good!) because now he's got "The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis" coming out by 2008 and it is the book I'd dream of getting to write - the training of Darth Sidious / Palpatine!!!

But meanwhile, Foster will be hampered by the stupid confines of the movie script. The Transformers are all looking for the Allspark! :rolleyes: It is described as technology or the gift of creation / intelligent design in a box, and not even native Cybertronian technology. It makes them all instantly reactive, instead of integral figures in their own evolution. On top of that, to safeguard it, Optimus Prime (or Alpha Trion) threw it away so Megatron could never find it. :rolleyes: Now there's a good solution!

I'm going to read this novel and see if Foster can even straighten any of this mess out. But I don't have my hopes up. *sigh*

I'll report in this thread rather than the Comics and Books thread (but I'll copy-paste my review in there if I find someone's started a TF prequel novel thread).

Tycho
04-02-2007, 11:37 PM
BOOK REVIEW PART 1: Transformers - Ghosts of Yesterday

"The Official Prequel To The Upcoming Blockbuster Film!" - it says so along the top of the paperback novel cover.

This book is indeed by Alan Dean Foster (Star Wars author of Splinter of the Mind's Eye and The Approaching Storm - pre-middle movies that preceede Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones, respectively, and also the uncredited author for the novelization of "A New Hope.")

My book reviews will be complete spoilers of the novel, unless I otherwise indicate. This will be an on-going segment in this thread because quite frankly, no one else will care. :lipsrsealed:

The first 17 pages are about Sector 7 - the human agency that's some sort of hybrid between the Defense Department and the CIA. They've found "Ice Man" a maybe 70-90 foot high alien robot frozen in the Arctic ice (Megatron) and are holding his deactivated form in a facility in the frozen tundras on an Arctic island. They've been disecting his technology as best as they can and downloading from his computers I guess, as they learn in 1969 how to design a better spaceship than NASA's using for their Neil Armstrong lunar mission.

A proper "Star Trek" type crew launch on the new secret spaceship dubbed "Ghost 1" at the same time Apollo 11 launches, so all eyes and radar will be on that ship.

On board Ghost 1, Captain Walker leads his crew on a suicide mission. They have the technology stolen from Cybertronian design to loop around the Solar System in 6 months. Their mission is to scout out and contact alien life that government intelligence thinks is planning an invasion from some staging base, possibly on one of the moons of Jupiter. They are to transmit their findings back to earth, and make contact if possible, to try and prevent an invasion or war. They don't know what they'll expect to find - except they fear they'll encounter more like "Ice Man" (Megatron).

Due to politics and bureaucratic b.s., superiors have ordered "Ice Man" packed in a huge cold storage and transferred to Area 51, somewhere near Hoover Dam (G1 homeage of course). They have the brilliant idea to study him closer to where another team is working on "The Cube," which of course is "the Allspark" to see what they can learn by comparing the technology (they can get themselves all killed by calling down the Decepticons upon them of course :rolleyes: )

Glancing ahead, not until page 24, is the first Transformer (a fellow named Starscream :thumbsup: ) introduced.

However, while I'm not Alan Dean Foster's biggest fan, Captain Walker and his crew's suicide rocket mission is written exceptionally well, and if I bought this book to read about a guy named Captain Walker, I'd already think it was an outstanding novel.

As a writer myself though, I find descriptives lacking: I have no idea what Captain Walker looks like, how old he is, or what most of his (6 member?) crew looks like. They call their Comm Officer (Maria Gonzalez) "Uhura," an intentional reference to Star Trek. Also the Ghost 1 is not too clear in my mind either. I'm waiting to see if he accurately describes Starscream as a flying Bionicle piece of crap. :D That's what he is, isn't he?

Anyway, while descriptives are lacking, the drama is well written. It does make me want to continue the novel. It's 286 pages btw, paperback and probably $6.99 MSRP. - Better than the tie-in toys.

Well, more to come as I go along.

Tycho
04-03-2007, 01:36 AM
BOOK REVIEW PART 2: Transformers - Ghosts of Yesterday

"The Official Prequel To The Upcoming Blockbuster Film!" - it says so along the top of the paperback novel cover.

OK, I'm on the first chapter that introduces the Cybertronians. We start on a Decepticon transport ship. It is not a battle cruiser as one might expect, but maybe the darn G1 ship that crashed in the ocean was their idea of a transport ship. In any case, they are no where near earth.

Starscream is the main character. (Yaaay! I'm a Starscream fan) He is the leader of the Decepticons. As far as he knows, Megatron has been dead for 1,000 years! However, Cybertronians experience the passage of time differently than we do. For many Decepticons, a leader missing for over 1,000 years is MIA, not declared dead. And most of the Decepticons prefer to go on looking. Starscream is interested because Megatron had taken off after the Allspark and Starscream wants it to help him cement his rule over Cybertron. He's annoyed the mission has taken this long and the war with the Autobots, pretty much the same amount of time.

Barricade is the navigator / pilot of the Decepticon ship. Blackout is also introduced, and is loyal to Megatron but submissive to Starscream for the time being. Starscream may be the most powerful Decepticon (at least in the present story).

They discover indications of Cybertronian technology being used to possibly navigate a wormhole. Starscream's standing orders are to annihilate any Autobots they come across. They seek complete genocidal extermination of the Autobots. So they alter course of their ship to investigate.

-------------------------------------------------------

Duh-Dah-Duh-Duh-Dah. "We now Return to the Transformers."


(the novel is cute as they use the Autobot and Decepticon icon symbols at the change of every chapter! Very G1 :thumbsup: )

-------------------------------------------------------

Holy Energon, Prime! The Autobots are on board The ARK!

Yes, the G1 ship we all knew and loved! I put down the book to run and post as soon as I read this. I could burst another brain cell if Teletran-1 gets introduced.

I jumped up to go post as soon as the first Autobot in command of The Ark was introduced: Optimus Prime!

--------------------------------------------------------

Repeat after me: "I am a major geek. I find this all fascinating!"

Tycho
04-03-2007, 04:38 AM
BOOK REVIEW PART 3: Transformers - Ghosts of Yesterday

"The Official Prequel To The Upcoming Blockbuster Film!" - it says so along the top of the paperback novel cover.


I've gotten to what seems to be the immenent breakout of their first battle in the book and Starscream is not in the mood to take any prisoners!

What's interesting is Blackout pushes him the way G1 fans saw Starscream push Megatron. They play games of dominance and internal politics. You're starting to wonder whether it will be so important for Starscream to just subjegate him, or eventually outright kill him. Barricade seems to definitely not want to get in between those two!

Alright: I'll spill some more. I'm loving this book!

The Ark does not look like it did in G1. It is spherical (think Star Wars Trade Federation ship without the ring - the way the TF ships land on Geonosis in SW).

The Autobots have traced a transmission that hones them in on the AllSpark and plan to leave Ratchet aboard the Ark while they go extra-vehicular and scout the system in their commet-form alt modes.

But they intercept the Ghost 1 at the same time the Decepticons do and Starscream is not going to tolerate anyone's interference!

Oh, it seems even at this point, BumbleBee cannot talk - he might have been severely damaged and Ratchet hasn't been able to fix everything.

2-1B
04-03-2007, 11:53 PM
The prequel books are probably way better than the movie.

JediTricks
04-04-2007, 04:49 PM
Tycho, interesting report in part 1. It disgusts me that the humans have all sorts of superduper technology already in 1969 that will change the fate of the world by the time the TFs are already here - it's SUCH a cheat, they got away with it in ID4 mainly because that already had a place in our society's mythos, but the idea behind Sector 7 having all that tech is ridiculous IMO. And you're totally right, how stupid could anybody be to put the allspark next to megs?

Pt 2 adds the ships, how stupid is that? First they take TF ships out of the film and now they're adding them back to their movie universe? LAME!!! Pick a damn idea and stick with it!

Pt 3 makes the Ark spherical? That's pretty dopey. And Starscream is a totally different personality from Megatron, so Screamer wouldn't take crap from an underling the same way Megs took it from Screamer. And why are the Autobots commetting around instead of just using their ship? Naturally so that they can intercept Ghost 1 for no good reason just as the 'Cons find it - that stuff seems way too contrived.

Bumblemaro's voice box was ripped out by Megs in the prequel comic, from what I've been told, so it had to have happened 1000 years before your novel.

Tycho
04-04-2007, 05:54 PM
JT makes some great points. I've continued to be entertained by the novel, except I haven't had many developments to post about it until this point.


Tycho, interesting report in part 1. It disgusts me that the humans have all sorts of superduper technology already in 1969 that will change the fate of the world by the time the TFs are already here - it's SUCH a cheat, they got away with it in ID4 mainly because that already had a place in our society's mythos, but the idea behind Sector 7 having all that tech is ridiculous IMO.

Well, like the Rosewell thing in ID4, this is the Arctic thing with Megatron. It's even more disturbing that our government (Nixon is president at the time of the novel) would put together a spaceship based on Megatron's technology, and then launch a manned spaceflight with it. Presumably, Megatron's body was discovered in 1904 by a whaling crew with Spike's great-grandfather aboard (maybe his grandfather - I assumed each man in his family had children when around 25 just to average it). The government's would have had access to Megatron since the Teddy Rooseveldt Administration :rolleyes:
If so, you wonder why they wasted time with NASA except for pork barrel contracts and perhaps the fact that they certainly didn't tell every civilian politician much at all about the work they were doing.

In any case, it wasn't initially clear whether Ghost-1 is a manned test flight or a desperate mission to uncover whether the Cybertronians are a hostile life form and discover whether they are based in our solar system and what their intention is. Well - it's sort of clear. The SSAB (Sector Seven Arctic Base) operation has those joint objectives, actually.

I must note, the Cybertronians are NOT based in earth's solar system. Ghost-1 got caught in a wormhole and ended up in deep space. It has not been revealed yet, but it's possible that by incorporating Decepticon-Tech in its design, it honed in on The Nemesis, Starscream's command ship, using a wormhole via its discovery by Ghost-1's possible artificial intelligence - though Foster hasn't established that the ship has any at this point either.



And you're totally right, how stupid could anybody be to put the allspark next to megs?

Well, it's like the horror movies. You're watching a movie called "Werewolf," and there is heavy growling, scratching, and banging on some door that helps protect characters inside some form of shelter. Then one of the characters goes and opens the door to see what could possibly be growling, scratching, and banging on the door. Great surprise: it's the werewolf! No one saw that coming, did they?

So I know: let's have the characters put the AllSpark next to Megatron. :rolleyes:


Pt 2 adds the ships, how stupid is that? First they take TF ships out of the film and now they're adding them back to their movie universe? LAME!!! Pick a damn idea and stick with it!

There is some issue about protecting each of their respective crafts, The Ark and The Nemesis. Each commander doesn't want to take them into battle. Ironhide wants to change that tactic and Prime consents and brings The Ark into the space battle finally. Both ships are described as transports and not warships however. (In a 1,000 years war? They're flying passenger ships? Maybe a footnote that previous warships had been destroyed and resources thin - I could understand this. I put it in the back of my mind to let things make more sense. But Foster could have included that fact.)


Pt 3 makes the Ark spherical? That's pretty dopey.

The scene needs Rumble: "First we crack the shell. Then we crack the nuts inside!" :thumbsup:


And Starscream is a totally different personality from Megatron, so Screamer wouldn't take crap from an underling the same way Megs took it from Screamer.

It would seem that he has limited options for personnel, so he must tolerate Blackout for the time being. But you're right. The Starscream we know would have killed him for his insabordination.

Optimus did make the observation that Starscream is more cunning and deceptive than Megatron, who would come head-on at you. If true, then what would be a cool plot point is if Starscream plots to get Blackout killed, but in such a way that serves another important purpose to him at the same time. I'm just making stuff up, but pack explosives in Scorponok and send him aboard Blackout into The Ark, and BAAM! All of Starscream's problems blow up in smoke. Something like that, if it evolves, would be very true to "Starscream style."


And why are the Autobots commetting around instead of just using their ship? Naturally so that they can intercept Ghost 1 for no good reason just as the 'Cons find it - that stuff seems way too contrived.

Well I adressed them wanting to protect The Ark. As far as contrived plot devices? That's usually how stories work. Coincidences are rarer in real life, and when they actually happen to you, you tell others a story (in that case a True Story) about them. You know: I'll have to re-read my own work now as I don't think I have contrived plot devices in my own independent story, but I think I'll re-examine it to be sure.


Bumblemaro's voice box was ripped out by Megs in the prequel comic, from what I've been told, so it had to have happened 1000 years before your novel.

You are correct. Apparently material is in short supply or Ratchet is the slowest medic in galactic history.

BumbleBee is communicating via text messaging. :rolleyes:

"Ironhide, thts gr8t. Dis plnt IMO lk ttly kewl! U shd B a NooB, 2." - I hate text messaging speech, and I'm only kidding. BumbleBee does NOT txt msg that way (crap, now I'm writing that way :rolleyes: )

But it doesn let you discover some more about his personality.

Apparently they can transform to at least THREE (3) different modes:

Ghost-1 lands on the surface of an unexplored barren planet. It has structures (of rock) resembling Unicron's "grasping horns" around his "planet form's mouth" by the way. I wonder...

Anyway, while the others engage in battle, Starscream tracks BumbleBee there who's attempting to make first contact with the humans on Ghost-1.

Starscream drives him off. To escape BumbleBee refuses to transform to commet mode as Starscream's faster (traditionally true). So BumbleBee has a 4-wheel drive protoform that helps him maneuver and go to ground to hide, frustrating Starscream, who goes back and makes first contact himself. Duplicitous as always, but curious about the Decepticon-Tech used on Ghost-1, Starscream relays to the humans, by text msg as well of course, that he saved them from the hostile BumbleBee who would have destroyed them. I don't know what happens next, as Foster left that scene for a chapter or so and I'm still reading.

Meanwhile, BumbleBee falls through something like quicksand, into an underground tunnel system on the planet that appears to be synthetically constructed. This further makes me wonder whether he's inside Unicron but doesn't know it yet. Foster does not mention Unicron at all (as of yet) but he must have been aware of him as he seems better versed in G1 than Michael Bay is.


That's where I'm at up to this point.

JediTricks
04-04-2007, 06:56 PM
Well, like the Rosewell thing in ID4, this is the Arctic thing with Megatron. It's even more disturbing that our government (Nixon is president at the time of the novel) would put together a spaceship based on Megatron's technology, and then launch a manned spaceflight with it. Presumably, Megatron's body was discovered in 1904 by a whaling crew with Spike's great-grandfather aboard (maybe his grandfather - I assumed each man in his family had children when around 25 just to average it). The government's would have had access to Megatron since the Teddy Rooseveldt Administration :rolleyes:
If so, you wonder why they wasted time with NASA except for pork barrel contracts and perhaps the fact that they certainly didn't tell every civilian politician much at all about the work they were doing.It's a contrivance, they need to show that there's been advances, but they can't actually SHOW any of these advances on society, so they have to backpedal it to specialized organizations and whatnot.


I must note, the Cybertronians are NOT based in earth's solar system. Ghost-1 got caught in a wormhole and ended up in deep space. It has not been revealed yet, but it's possible that by incorporating Decepticon-Tech in its design, it honed in on The Nemesis, Starscream's command ship, using a wormhole via its discovery by Ghost-1's possible artificial intelligence - though Foster hasn't established that the ship has any at this point either.Seems pretty goofy, like they'd use technology they don't understand that heavily and get sucked into a wormhole right at the place the story needs them to be.



Well, it's like the horror movies. You're watching a movie called "Werewolf," and there is heavy growling, scratching, and banging on some door that helps protect characters inside some form of shelter. Then one of the characters goes and opens the door to see what could possibly be growling, scratching, and banging on the door. Great surprise: it's the werewolf! No one saw that coming, did they?

So I know: let's have the characters put the AllSpark next to Megatron. :rolleyes: I loathe that kind of stupidity in any sort of writing, if you're going to make it a moron world you're going to need to make a LOT more changes than just 1 guy making bad decisions.



It would seem that he has limited options for personnel, so he must tolerate Blackout for the time being. But you're right. The Starscream we know would have killed him for his insabordination.Or made him suffer a physical injury that required repair, not just Megatron's insults and emotional humiliations.



Optimus did make the observation that Starscream is more cunning and deceptive than Megatron, who would come head-on at you. Ridiculous though, it sounds like something they'd throw in just to explain why the 'Cons are doing good without Megatron - it's a contrivance slapped on top of another contrivance to cover it up.



As far as contrived plot devices? That's usually how stories work. Coincidences are rarer in real life, and when they actually happen to you, you tell others a story (in that case a True Story) about them.Only weak stories need to be based on so many large contrivances, storytelling can be organic even in a fantasy situation.



Ghost-1 lands on the surface of an unexplored barren planet. It has structures (of rock) resembling Unicron's "grasping horns" around his "planet form's mouth" by the way. I wonder...Sounds like a direct statement, not a question really, like they know they're going to throw that little nugget in there for fans and then leave the possibility of Unicron in for the film's sequels (which are all but assured, Don Murphy and Michael Baby have said they want them).



Anyway, while the others engage in battle, Starscream tracks BumbleBee there who's attempting to make first contact with the humans on Ghost-1.Of course, who better to send to make contact than a guy who can't SPEAK?!? :rolleyes:

mabudonicus
04-05-2007, 07:22 AM
Still Sucks

"Ghost One" and that whole brillaint "humans refurbishing alien technology" is cush an OBVIOUS rip-off of Macross it isn't funny

like they'd use technology they don't understand that heavily and get sucked into a wormhole right at the place the story needs them to be.

See?? They wanted to rip off Macross no matter what, and so the same major points are used without ANYof the proper backstory

This whole thing sounds like someone wanted to make Robotech the movie but couldn't get the licensing. Watch out boys. she's gonna BLOW :beard:Iso & baws

Tycho
04-05-2007, 03:49 PM
BOOK REVIEW PART 4: Transformers - Ghosts of Yesterday

"The Official Prequel To The Upcoming Blockbuster Film!" - it says so along the top of the paperback novel cover.

Stupid Sector 7 bureaucrats ordered Megatron moved from the Arctic Base to Nevada and not 1/2 hour after the military motrocade convoy starts out, they wind up in a 6-7 vehicle pile up because they transport during a blizzard and skid on the ice. The commanding officer was either just killed in a traffic accident, or at least has a broken leg. *Sigh*


Meanwhile, BumbleBee (dispatched to make contact with the humans aboard Ghost-1 but driven into hiding by Starscream), is attacked by giant space worms and Optimus comes to save him.

Droid
04-05-2007, 04:00 PM
Nothing says Transformers like giant space worms.

JediTricks
04-05-2007, 04:13 PM
BOOK REVIEW PART 4: Transformers - Ghosts of Yesterday

"The Official Prequel To The Upcoming Blockbuster Film!" - it says so along the top of the paperback novel cover.

Stupid Sector 7 bureaucrats ordered Megatron moved from the Arctic Base to Nevada and not 1/2 hour after the military motrocade convoy starts out, they wind up in a 6-7 vehicle pile up because they transport during a blizzard and skid on the ice. The commanding officer was either just killed in a traffic accident, or at least has a broken leg. *Sigh*


Meanwhile, BumbleBee (dispatched to make contact with the humans aboard Ghost-1 but driven into hiding by Starscream), is attacked by giant space worms and Optimus comes to save him.
:rolleyes:

El Chuxter
04-09-2007, 02:53 PM
And then Wheelie and the Quintessons show up to add some coolness to the proceedings? :rolleyes:

It looks like the Transformers game will have Welker as Megatron. There's a video up at http://www.transformersgame.com/. I must warn you, it's an exceptionally annoying Flash-based site. Sadly, the video implies that reports that Welker is not Megatron in the film are correct.

Stupid Michael Bay. He'd better not come within a thousand miles of the GIJoe film rights, or I will kick him in the nuts until his nose bleeds. :mad:

By the way, Tycho, what will you do when you discover the soundtrack isn't the 1987 one, and it's got such great acts as Fall Out Boy and Avril Lavigne, and maybe a hip hop remake of the Transformers theme by Nelly?

Tycho
04-09-2007, 04:41 PM
SPOILERS IN THIS POST

Avril Lavigne is hot. Maybe she'll melt Megatron's ice? "Cause she can "do it" better!" Anyway, I'd like to transform her into something, make her my Autobot, yeah!

Anyway, I don't expect they'd use the 1986 soundtrack, but right now I'm enjoying the fantasy that they would. Nothing goes with Transformers better than heavy metal!

Lion Transformers theme for the credits.

Instruments of Destruction for Blackout / Scorponok's attack on the base in Quatar. (I'd add most of the other Decepticons there, not because they're needed, but just to show them off! What an entrance for Starscream!)

Dare for the Barricade - BumbleBee pursuit / battle.

The Touch for Prime as a truck jumping off a high rise parking garage in downtown LA and fatally smashing through Blackout (who was hovering too close) and then transforming into a robot as he lands and shoulder rolls onto the street in front of Megatron and says, "Megatron: this is the end of the road! One shall stand and one shall fall!" (continue with the dialogue from the '86 movie here)

Nothing's Gonna Stand In Our Way for the Autobots' attack in downtown LA prior to Jazz's death.

Hunger for BumbleBee, wounded, but still in the fight, taking off with Ironhide to avenge Jazz and rip apart Brawl!

GI Joe is not as important as Transformers, but I'd go see it.

I don't think many of the Transformers are going to talk much. I'm still reading the novel. They communicate with each other by that data transfer noise you hear in the first full trailer during the Pentagon scene.

Most Decepticons think humans are contemptable and barely sentient primatives. They're not really worth talking to unless they're threatening them. They won't use human language to communicate with other Decepticons or the Autobots. This means Barricade and Megatron might be the only Decepticons who talk in English in the movie. Starscream has already learned it and used it in the prequel book to communicate with the crew of Ghost-1 and con them into thinking the Autobots are their enemies, but the deception has fallen through now and Prime won the human's allegiance (naturally).

There is no real logical reason why Prime and Megatron would trade threats in spoken English when their data transfers are so much more efficient. Of course they might be jamming each other's transmissions and thus...

The other Autobots will talk to Sam and Mikaela of course - Ratchet, Jazz, Ironhide. BumbleBee's speech sythesizer was ripped out by Megatron and Ratchet hasn't been able to get parts to fix it in over 1,000 years. :rolleyes:

But time passes differently to them anyway. They must come with a 1 Trillion-Mile Manufacturer's Warranty!

Droid
04-09-2007, 05:02 PM
SPOILERS IN THIS POST
Most Decepticons think humans are contemptable and barely sentient primatives. They're not really worth talking to unless they're threatening them. They won't use human language to communicate with other Decepticons or the Autobots. This means Barricade and Megatron might be the only Decepticons who talk in English in the movie. Starscream has already learned it and used it in the prequel book to communicate with the crew of Ghost-1 and con them into thinking the Autobots are their enemies, but the deception has fallen through now and Prime won the human's allegiance (naturally).

There is no real logical reason why Prime and Megatron would trade threats in spoken English when their data transfers are so much more efficient. Of course they might be jamming each other's transmissions and thus...


There is no logical reason why Jor-El would speak English to other Kryptonians in Superman: the Movie. There is no logical reason why the Transformers would speak to each other in English. There is no logical reason why most species in Star Trek speak English (the universal translator does not explain why their lips move to match English). For some things disbelief needs to be suspended. If the Transformers spend the whole movie sounding like fax machines the powers that be are sacrificing enjoyability for the sake of "realism".

El Chuxter
04-09-2007, 05:04 PM
Bay should realize:

These are giant frigging alien robots who turn into cars and planes and like to kill each other. Forget realism. We left that way behind with the "giant frigging alien robots" part.

Tycho
04-09-2007, 10:13 PM
ID4 required you to suspend disbelief that an alien invasion force would plunder earth. However those aliens did not communicate with spoken English either - but talked with telepathy. When it became necessary for that pilot to address President Whitmore, he took over Dr. Okum and spoke through him.

The case being that while the movie wasn't historically real, the characterization was realistic.

Now, you can move the Transformers gradually into the TV cartoon tradition:

1) The Autobots naturally speak to humanity which Prime respects. That takes care of 5 / 13 Transformers.

2) Barricade captures and interrogates Sam, and thus must communicate with him.

3) A sensible battle tactic is to jam one's enemy's communications, and this might block each sides' "fax machine transmissions," thus making vocal communication necessary. They are using English in practice - thus there you go.

Bay just needs to establish that.

As to Jor-El and Superman, it is likely that Kryptonians are speaking another language, but no one but their species is around and thus it is done for our benefit, because there isn't any human character around that shouldn't be able to understand them.

And Chuxter: Prime went on a diet for this movie. He felt like he was towing a lot of weight behind him so he needed to shed some pounds.

Droid
04-10-2007, 08:35 AM
ID4 required you to suspend disbelief that an alien invasion force would plunder earth. However those aliens did not communicate with spoken English either - but talked with telepathy. When it became necessary for that pilot to address President Whitmore, he took over Dr. Okum and spoke through him.

The case being that while the movie wasn't historically real, the characterization was realistic.

Now, you can move the Transformers gradually into the TV cartoon tradition:

1) The Autobots naturally speak to humanity which Prime respects. That takes care of 5 / 13 Transformers.

2) Barricade captures and interrogates Sam, and thus must communicate with him.

3) A sensible battle tactic is to jam one's enemy's communications, and this might block each sides' "fax machine transmissions," thus making vocal communication necessary. They are using English in practice - thus there you go.

Bay just needs to establish that.

As to Jor-El and Superman, it is likely that Kryptonians are speaking another language, but no one but their species is around and thus it is done for our benefit, because there isn't any human character around that shouldn't be able to understand them.

And Chuxter: Prime went on a diet for this movie. He felt like he was towing a lot of weight behind him so he needed to shed some pounds.

ID4 wasn't screwing up a beloved and pre-existing franchise. You could do everything you suggest gradually, or you could just have the Transformers speak in English.

JediTricks
04-10-2007, 04:12 PM
Stupid Michael Bay. He'd better not come within a thousand miles of the GIJoe film rights, or I will kick him in the nuts until his nose bleeds. :mad:Er, I hate to tell you this, but he's already in grabbing distance of those rights, they're owned right now by Transformers producer Don Murphy, and it's the reason this TF movie exists at all, Murphy wanted to make a GI Joe movie but the Iraq war broke out and he felt it'd be inappropriate, so he looked at other similar ideas.

El Chuxter
04-10-2007, 04:22 PM
So Snake Eyes will be Destro's brother and Zartan's secret lover, and they'll be aliens from Mars. Cobra Commander will not actually appear in the movie, and when he does, he will burst forth from General Hawk's chest.

Is that how the script looks?

Droid
04-10-2007, 04:47 PM
I'll bet they'll really get inside the G.I. Joe mythos.

They can make it about the girlfriend of someone joining G.I. Joe (maybe Lt. Falcon) and the film can show her and her boyfriend's introduction into the Joe world. I could be just like when Will Smith joined the Men in Black.

And maybe we could learn all about Cobra through the eyes of Cobra Commander's son, Billy.

When you think about it it really should be the story through the eyes of some teenagers. Hmmm, but you really need a dog. Oh, I got itI Junkyard's dog, Mutt, runs away and two kids find him and have to return him to G.I. Joe. That's even better. It could be just like Wendy and Marvin on the Superfriends!

And maybe they could limit it to like six Joes because G.I. Joe would be a small team of people like the Mod Squad.

And they could have everyone from Cobra speak foreign languages to make it really feel like Cobra was a global terrorist group.

Oh ya, and everyone's outfit could look completely different than their classic costumes so that you couldn't recognize anyone. Because when you think of it the outfits were pretty unrealistic.

And they could save everyone's favorite characters for the sequel.

And they can replace the classic vehicles with Hummers and other vehicles companies will pay product placement for.

We better stop posting this stuff before someone from Murphy's production company reads it and thinks they are great ideas.

mabudonicus
04-11-2007, 06:57 AM
Droid- I don't see a problem with your suggestions, I wasn't a huge fan of GI Joe but I had the toys, and from what I remember Cobra wasn't even in the first few seasons of the show.. WAIT no, that was Scooby Doo, no, sorry, what you just described is AWFUL... (we really do need an official way to denote sarcasm- on a Canadian site I visit, we use uprple text- any other suggestions beyond [sarcasm]???)

:beard: Iso & Baws

Darthvyn had too many accounts at one time, and the rest were closed, leaving only darthvyn

2-1B
04-11-2007, 07:16 PM
Ang Lee will direct the GI Joe movie to get into the psychological aspect of the military.

It will be like The Deer Hunter meets The Hulk

El Chuxter
04-11-2007, 08:09 PM
I would actually not mind Ang Lee directing GIJoe. It could get into the psychology of all the interconnections between Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Hawk, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, Firefly, Jinx, and Zartan.

Yeah, maybe there are a few too many coincidences in that origin story after all.

JediTricks
04-12-2007, 05:54 PM
So Snake Eyes will be Destro's brother and Zartan's secret lover, and they'll be aliens from Mars. Cobra Commander will not actually appear in the movie, and when he does, he will burst forth from General Hawk's chest.

Is that how the script looks?It would if Murphy had developed it with Bay... then again, Murphy mangled the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen pretty deftly, so maybe Murphy could poison it without Bay.


And maybe they could limit it to like six Joes because G.I. Joe would be a small team of people like the Mod Squad. Of all the sadly likely things you said, that one is so dead-on accurate true how these people think that it's sickening. If you watched the GI Joe Sigma 6 cartoon last year, it was pretty much the same horrible thing.

preacher
04-12-2007, 08:37 PM
I'm not as hung up on limiting the number of Joe's or Bots respectively. Not even X-men had all the characters on all the time. A lot of them just had supporting roles. There is only so much you can do with characterization in a couple ours. Hell, even LOTR had a limit of eleven core characters.

What I really detest though is the butchering of character. If they do something retarded equivalent to, oh, I don't know, make starscream look like a freaking monkey, that's where I draw the line. Sadly, with as much attention being paid to the state of the world I could totally see hollywood butchering the Joe mythos. The most interesting character in GI JOE IS cobra commander. Not the cobra la piece of dung that polluted the franchise either, I mean the former car salesman who decided the system has failed. I don't think hollywood would ever be brave enough to take on something like that. And yet there are so many people that feel that way that such a story would work.

JediTricks
04-13-2007, 06:19 PM
There was a video up earlier today on Youtube from a new tv ad for the TF movie, Paramount already has it pulled, but it had Optimus talking for a second, his voice is very much different than I expected, mixed way down, very different from G1. In the scene, it showed his moving mouth, the mouthplate was gone, this made Beast Wars look like genius it was so horrible looking, the mouth was down nearly to the edge of his chin and it moved all liquidy and stuck out like a weird pout.

Tycho
04-13-2007, 06:47 PM
I didn't like the way they had Peter Cullen sounding either. It was the electronic mixing (like he was wearing the voice changer helmet) :rolleyes:

Here's Peter Cullen and Frank Welker for the video game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4tNz_3dGBA&NR=1) At least there Megatron is kept consistant (as is Prime). But you get to see Cullen say, "Transform and roll out!" OK, I'm a nerd, but I love watching that over and over again. Brings a tear to my eye.

JediTricks
04-14-2007, 02:00 PM
Here's that video I mentioned yesterday. http://iesb.net/index.php?option=com_xevidmegafx&Itemid=139&func=detail&id=457
It's like they hate us.

General_Grievous
04-15-2007, 12:42 AM
I saw this on imdb.


Why is Frank Welker not voicing Megatron?

The producers have determined that because of Welker's age, that he no longer sounds like Megatron. Hugo Weaving will be doing the voice instead.

As if we needed further evidence that Bay is a douche.

figrin bran
04-15-2007, 02:06 AM
Here in Los Angeles, at the corner of Vine and Sunset, they put up a huge ad for this movie alongside an abandoned building.

I'm really hoping someone spraypaints "Michael Bay sucks" on it :p

Tycho
04-15-2007, 11:58 AM
Why is Frank Welker not voicing Megatron?

The producers have determined that because of Welker's age, that he no longer sounds like Megatron. Hugo Weaving will be doing the voice instead.

Yeah, well in the latest trailer they took Peter Cullen and electronically altered him so he doesn't sound like Optimus Prime any longer. :rolleyes:

El Chuxter
04-15-2007, 01:21 PM
He sounds plenty like Megatron in the video game. :mad:

JediTricks
04-18-2007, 09:05 PM
Here in Los Angeles, at the corner of Vine and Sunset, they put up a huge ad for this movie alongside an abandoned building.

I'm really hoping someone spraypaints "Michael Bay sucks" on it :p
Yeah, I saw it last week, lame, it's just the hand over the busted concrete and the eye (or was it Prime's head in shadow?), they've used all these elements before.

Strangely, they've switched it to one on the north face that's far less dynamic but says the movie's name better.

Tycho
04-18-2007, 09:15 PM
I heard from TFW2005.com that one of the giant building banners blew down in the gusting wind LA has been experiencing.

People said they didn't know what happened to it when it fell. It would require a large vehicle to transport, that's for sure.

JediTricks
04-20-2007, 08:19 PM
I'm skeptical, the building up until a few months ago was covered in white plastic for nearly a year, then we had heavy winds and it still took a while (weeks I believe) to get to this state on Feb 26th:
http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sspx0125xn0.jpg

But the TF banner on the west face was here 1 day and gone the next, no leftover pieces.

El Chuxter
04-23-2007, 12:11 PM
This is probably a joke, but sectorseven.org, which is a confusing-as-hell site that fansites purport to be official, has video of Grimlock, Kickback, and someone else who may be Reflector. Probably just a joke for fans, like I said, but this had better not be all the Grimlock we get in the franchise.

Rather than linking directly, I'm linking to this site (http://forevergeek.com/movies/grimlock_and_insecticons_confirmed_for_transformer s_movie.php), which includes a couple of screen grabs and directions for logging into this utter mess of a site.

Please note: the directions here say to click the red hard drive, but you have to double-click it. Grimlock is the first file, Kickback the third.

I'd advise against wasting your time on the other stuff there, which is poorly acted, a bit stupid, and boring as hell.

I would appreciate it if someone who is wasting money on this mockery tell me if Grimlock actually appears. If my main Dinobot is in the movie, I may be willing to pay money to see it on the big screen no matter how hard it sucks.

Actually, I take back what I said earlier. Hopefully Grimlock is not in this. The idea of what Bay would do to him (can you say "hair dryer that turns into a jive-talkin' miniature robot poodle voiced by Dave Chappelle"?) is too painful to bear.

Tycho
04-23-2007, 01:06 PM
The idea of what Bay would do to him (can you say "hair dryer that turns into a jive-talkin' miniature robot poodle voiced by Dave Chappelle"?) is too painful to bear.

Dude! Don't post spoilers. ;) Michael Bay is including that scene in the movie just for YOU, Chuxter.

Anyway, the Grimlock, Kickback stuff is actually Michael Bay's. He ordered it done (or did it himself) just to see what those characters would / could look like if realistically rendered for a live-action film. They are not in this movie, but perhaps he was looking at them for sequels. But Bay does know about Grimlock and was checking out that possibility for at least his own curiousity's sake. The Dinobot leader, Kickback, and Reflector come off of his computer and Bay had them posted so fans could also see them and comment. I think he set up that website, or had help from someone else doing it.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP7FXFFywy4)

JediTricks
04-23-2007, 10:42 PM
Tycho, your link removed due to the swearing in the vid.

Though I think it's just a really lame video anyway. :p

Paramount set up the sectorseven website.


So get this, remember the ugly mouth video of Optimus talking? Well, Bay is claiming it's not authentic! He's saying it's not even Cullen's voice: http://tformers.com/Bay-Prime-Speaks-Not-Official-Not-Cullen/7478/news.html
What a liar he is! That's so obviously Cullen's voice in that awful clip, and I don't believe for a second that a "European studio" is who created that ugly mouth and movement, why would another studio do anything and where would they get the source materials to do it? This reeks of damage control.

Tycho
04-23-2007, 10:50 PM
I don't really care if that was supposed to be the True-Prime but he's now saying it was a False-Prime because he's making a False-Truth. If he's going to fix things and make a True-Prime the True-Truth than that would settle it and I'd be True-Happy (with that part of it).

As to the Vid, as long as you saw it JT. (and I wished it to go in El Chuxter's direction as well) It was hard to make out the poorly recorded lyrics anyway, so I couldn't tell if he was swearing or not.

Chux: It was a song praising Michael Bay with video footage from all his movies in the background, sung to the tune of "The Touch," and with a guy performing an imitation of Stan Bush with a Decepticon symbol on his guitar in the foreground.

Speaking of True-Voices out there, a recording of what is supposedly Starscream's voice is circulating also. I'm indifferent to it. It has a slight nod to G1, but of course that voice-actor has passed away.

JediTricks
04-24-2007, 05:13 PM
I saw it months ago, some guy redoing The Touch in support of Bay, it was ridiculous. The lyrics are posted in text right next to the video.

JediTricks
04-27-2007, 10:12 PM
Well surprise surprise, Bay has been proven a liar and those ARE really Optimus Prime's lips in that unfinished TV ad that show up in the movie, the test screening last night proved it. I can't link to the spoiler-laden review, it's on AICN and has naughty language, but it confirms they're in there.


Also, speaking of the test screening, Bay said this of it:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=131563

We had two screenings tonight 850 people. Highest test scores in my career. Blew Armageddon away which was a 92.
Wow, way to aim high AND prove how useless testing is. Armageddon's sporting a whopping 5.8 / 10 rating on IMDB, that POS really endured well. :rolleyes:

Tycho
04-28-2007, 12:40 AM
So people threw 92 tomatoes at the screen during the pre-showing of Armageddon?

That's a way to make some serious salad.

JediTricks
04-28-2007, 04:19 PM
Bay is an expert at making movies that are like junk food - they're really palatable at first, very exciting, but have no real depth or value to them and certainly no lasting quality.

Tycho
04-28-2007, 06:28 PM
That's 2 people's faults (or more): Bay is at fault for taking the assignments, but the writer is at fault for crafting the story.

A car chase is a car chase. What the effects guys can do with it etc. might be cool.

However, your involvement in the car chase comes from:

Who is driving the cars?
What do we know about these drivers?
Why is each of them involved in the chase? What will they do if it ends in an outcome favorable to them?

If these questions and more have interesting answers, Bay can make a spectacular movie with a car chase to get the old adrenaline pumping.

If Britney and K-Fed are racing cars, you don't even care to watch long enough to see them crash. I'm sure Michael Bay could direct one of his famous action scenes out of that, but no one would care.

It comes down to the writing, and in cases like Transformers where the design is very important, what technical help the producers employ (Optimus with lips showing versus how we all prefer him?)

By the way, many Transformers have mouths (and consequently lips): Starscream, Megatron, Hound, Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus, Ironhide, etc. However, the traditional Prime kept his mouthguard up. Heh. Maybe it will get fused in that position or his mouth will get damaged in this movie, causing him to permanently keep it up in the future (Ratchet can't seem to fix BumbleBee's vocalizer - actually a good subplot for the 2nd movie would be a competancy review of Ratchet's license to practice Cybertronian medacine!)

preacher
04-28-2007, 11:20 PM
Prime has a severe underbite. That so called mouthpiece is his lower jaw. He doesn't have any stupid lips!

Tycho you forgot the most important element in that car chase scene. Its not only important to know what a driver in a car chase scene will do if it is favorable to them, but its more important to know what steps (risks) the driver is willing to take to ENSURE that the chase ends favorable. Conflict drives story. Here is the crux of the problem with this Transformer plot line...

Bay is focusing on the human story so the conflict that Sam faces are very human. If you take a story the conflict has to have meaning for the main character, but in Transformers the main character really is Prime. Prime's conflict, for it to be meaningful to his own personal story must be challenged. Now how is the conflict that Sam faces going to even influence Prime - or at least make it so that Sam's conflict and Prime's conflict are one in the same?

Its the same reason I don't like stories where the main characters are Gods. Something that is challenging to a god is devastating to a mortal. The same goes for the Transformers. They are mechanical Gods and there conflict would be crushing to a human character. Maybe this will happen. But the problem is there are two main characters in Bay's Transformers. Sam and Prime. For that to work they must feel like the same character - and how the hell is that supposed to work when one is mortal and the other is a robot/alien?

JT I'm just curious. I agree with your take on Bay's wankerism, but since you are an LA local I sense that he might have dropped a load in your cornflakes in the past. Do you know him? You seem very passionate about your dislike toward him. I just hate his stories.

Tycho
04-29-2007, 12:11 AM
Well, as I noted, they are not Bay's stories - he's just directing them.

Optimus Prime is not the main Transformer character either. BumbleBee is (in this movie). That might prove to be a mistake, but this is an introductory movie, too.

ESB is widely regarded as being better than ANH. So we'll see.

mabudonicus
04-29-2007, 07:58 AM
Ratchet and Wheeljack weren't all that good at their chosen profession, and there's proof...

In TF: The Movie when Prime is mortally wounded, they lament about how there';s nothin they can do, put him in a coffin and shoot him into orbit around that sun- in "The Return of Optimus Prime" his body gets discovered by them 2 humans, who manage to fix Prime overnight with just wrenches and a cutting torch.
So not bein able to fix Bumblebees mouth is no surprise. Who knows, maybe he was bein voiced by Gilbert Gottfried and Prime ordered a sabotage mission on Bumblebee and secretly told the "medics" that fixing him would be a bad idea
:beard: Iso & Baws
Rocketboy wears glasses

Droid
04-29-2007, 01:08 PM
ESB is widely regarded as being better than ANH. So we'll see.

Why aren't they calling "Sam" Spike? It's that sort of thing that makes me crazy.

ESB may have been better, but Lucas tried to make ANH as good as possible. He wasn't making ANH as just set up filler so that they could get to the good stuff in ESB. Bay seems to really be saving up for the sequel.

That was one of the problems with the prequels. The first two chapters filled space until the payoff in the ROTS. (At least that is what Lucas has admitted. I think the original trilogy set up plenty of story that could have filled the prequels, Lucas just abandoned it. For instance, why not explore Owen and Anakin and Ben's relationship with each other in the prequels since A New Hope implied Owen had more to do with the whole thing than, "Hi, I'm Owen.")

preacher
04-29-2007, 02:48 PM
I stand corrected. The way that prime has been paraded around magazine covers I would have thought prime would be the main character. If I understand correctly Bumblebee can't even talk? Where did ratchet get his degree in medicine?

Bumblebee was also a pivotal character in the first Transformer comic series. For that medium having multiple main characters works. For a movie I really can't see it working. I was pleasantly shocked with X-men making the attempt, but even there Wolverine is the main character.

Star Wars worked because it used story archtypes. Lucas just followed the time tested structure and used it for his story. Luke Protagonist, Empire Antagonist, Ben the wiseman, Han the skeptic etc. But more importantly it worked because the conflict was isolated to just Luke. The rest were just along for the ride.

JediTricks
04-29-2007, 04:54 PM
It comes down to the writing, and in cases like Transformers where the design is very important, what technical help the producers employ (Optimus with lips showing versus how we all prefer him?)

By the way, many Transformers have mouths (and consequently lips): Starscream, Megatron, Hound, Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus, Ironhide, etc. However, the traditional Prime kept his mouthguard up. Heh. Maybe it will get fused in that position or his mouth will get damaged in this movie, causing him to permanently keep it up in the future (Ratchet can't seem to fix BumbleBee's vocalizer - actually a good subplot for the 2nd movie would be a competancy review of Ratchet's license to practice Cybertronian medacine!)I've always assumed since day 1 that G1 Optimus had a mouth under that plate since it moves when he talks. However, why it has to look like 10 kinds of awful, that I cannot fathom, those are some heavily-pronounced lips and it looks very wrong.



JT I'm just curious. I agree with your take on Bay's wankerism, but since you are an LA local I sense that he might have dropped a load in your cornflakes in the past. Do you know him? You seem very passionate about your dislike toward him. I just hate his stories.Thankfully never met the guy, the nicest thing I could think to do would be to spit on his shoes. I have always been offended by the way he operates, he's such a tool of the corporate studio system, he's a master of disguising fluff as substance at the top level which gets butts into seats. The big budget dreck he makes is all about name actors, loud soundtracks, explosions, and "avant garde" camerawork in the service of nothing, and it makes it that much harder for far better movies to be made since studios expect those kinds of big budget summer blockbusters from everything they produce yet they tightly control every big budget movie they pay for choking off all the quality. Bay is the face man for the damaged Hollywood system.



Well, as I noted, they are not Bay's stories - he's just directing them."Just directing them" plus producing them and telling the writers what he wants the movie to be thus shaping how the screenplay comes out. You give him far too little credit.

Tycho
04-29-2007, 04:55 PM
Why aren't they calling "Sam" Spike? It's that sort of thing that makes me crazy.

Spike is a nickname, and somewhere along the line you might want to show were Sam got it. Sparkplug is not Mr. Whitwicky's given name for certain. I don't think Spike would be either.


ESB may have been better, but Lucas tried to make ANH as good as possible. He wasn't making ANH as just set up filler so that they could get to the good stuff in ESB. Bay seems to really be saving up for the sequel.

I'll agree with some of that. You have to establish the story, don't you? So it's not filler per se, it's the requirements of a set-up movie. Spider-Man had major set-up and it was a great film. I personally liked Ang Lee's Hulk, and that was another set-up. Batman Begins was too. We haven't seen the movie yet, so it can still be great. But yeah, the sequel could likely be even better.


That was one of the problems with the prequels. The first two chapters filled space until the payoff in the ROTS.

The story is what the story is. Now Lucas could have made the entire prequels The Clone Wars, or started with episodes "-2: TPM," and "-1: TPM," then made E1, E2 both Clone Wars movies, and E3 ROTS as it was. Regardless, there had to be a story that a boy too old to begin the training was apprenticed by a Jedi too young to be a Master, and he had a lifelong obsession with 1 girl that would be his undoing, while events conspired to use his love and attachments to turn him to the Dark Side.


For instance, why not explore Owen and Anakin and Ben's relationship with each other in the prequels since A New Hope implied Owen had more to do with the whole thing than, "Hi, I'm Owen.")

That's good for the episodic TV series, not really an action-drama.



The way that prime has been paraded around magazine covers I would have thought prime would be the main character.

You mean like Darth Maul was the main character in Episode One? :D



If I understand correctly Bumblebee can't even talk?

Yup. He can super-scan radio channels to use his car stereo to 'talk' sort of like Wreck-Gar. "Film at Eleven or your money back, garaunteed. And right now if you take advantage of this special offer, we'll answer your next question correctly and you can win a prize!"

Spielberg's influence to make a cute robot that brings back some memorizes of E.T. "BumbleBee phone home." :rolleyes:



Where did ratchet get his degree in medicine? In a cut scene, Ratchet tunes his own stereo into one of those infomercials that tells him how he can get a degree right from home with these easy online courses that he can complete in his leisure.


Bumblebee was also a pivotal character in the first Transformer comic series. For that medium having multiple main characters works. For a movie I really can't see it working. I was pleasantly shocked with X-men making the attempt, but even there Wolverine is the main character.

I'm writing a novel now that has nearly 16 major characters who I whittle it down from. My audience really can't be too sure who will wind up surviving and being the 'heroes' of the story until the end. It's a style. And everyone kind of gets entwined with one another. I suppose it's sort of like Pulp Fiction, though I was never really appreciative of that film that much. I'll have to give it a second look some day.

JediTricks
04-29-2007, 05:26 PM
Spike is a nickname, and somewhere along the line you might want to show were Sam got it. Sparkplug is not Mr. Whitwicky's given name for certain. I don't think Spike would be either.That is a pretty lame response.


I'll agree with some of that. You have to establish the story, don't you? So it's not filler per se, it's the requirements of a set-up movie. Spider-Man had major set-up and it was a great film. I personally liked Ang Lee's Hulk, and that was another set-up. Batman Begins was too. We haven't seen the movie yet, so it can still be great. But yeah, the sequel could likely be even better.Star Wars was the story, the sequels were meant to be in Star Wars but Lucas realized he couldn't make it all fit, he knew he might not get the sequels done, so he made Star Wars a single tale by putting the Death Star's destruction into its ending.

Spider-Man stands alone perfectly well, as does Batman Begins - IMO, they could do a sequel without the Joker and it'd still work for me. These weren't setups to future movies, they were telling those specific origin stories, that's where those stories end. Transformers is intended to be a sequel-generator, Bay and Don Murphy have said so since day 1.



The story is what the story is. Now Lucas could have made the entire prequels The Clone Wars, or started with episodes "-2: TPM," and "-1: TPM," then made E1, E2 both Clone Wars movies, and E3 ROTS as it was. Regardless, there had to be a story that a boy too old to begin the training was apprenticed by a Jedi too young to be a Master, and he had a lifelong obsession with 1 girl that would be his undoing, while events conspired to use his love and attachments to turn him to the Dark Side.Lucas has said that the prequels story is told in the PT, but that TPM and AOTC are each around 20% of that story, that all the real stuff is in ROTS - 60% of the prequel story is in ROTS and that's only from Lucas' conservative estimate, I'd say it's even bigger, TPM is like 5% of the story at best and AOTC 15%. And there doesn't seem to be any thought in Lucas' mind to what came before TPM even though the prequels only existed in the OT as a small outline he could use to tell the OT story and were never meant to be seen.


That's good for the episodic TV series, not really an action-drama.The "why" of things is nearly always important to "drama", a main reason I don't like the prequels is that there's virtually no "why" so the "what" and "how" are very flat.

preacher
04-29-2007, 08:50 PM
Tycho,

Don't misunderstand me. I didn't say that you can never have mutliple main characters and whittle down as you say. I did say that trying to make an audience empathize with a character within under two hours is an undertaking. Forget about trying to empathesize with multiple characters. Pulp Fiction is an interesting piece. Even though it seems to have an anti-plot you still empathize with Samuel Jackson's character because of his enlightenment. He is subjected to conflict and learns from it. Sure other characters also face challenges, but Samuel Jackson's character is the only one that visibly grows from it. Maybe its because the audience has the benefit of seeing him in three of the five subplots. Nevertheless he is the pulse of Pulp Fiction.

For a book multiple characters works because the author can add the characters inner feelings into the text. Stephen King does it all the time masterfully. But did you notice the earlier movie adapatations of some of his stories suck?

Tycho
04-30-2007, 08:47 AM
Preacher, I admit I haven't seen or read much of Steven King's work. Shawshank of course - great movie!

But that worries me as I have a movie in mind for my story. I'm not in the film industry aside from making contacts while trying to do a little bit of acting. I never thought how bad they could misrepresent my characters. When I publish, I plan to legally retain a huge amount of control over my work for a movie. I also write heavy dialogue so a screen-play translation wouldn't be too hard. But casting and directing will make a huge difference.

But you are so spot on. With writing a novel, I can sometimes describe what my characters are thinking. There's no way to do that with a movie. To be sure, the leads use each other as sounding boards for a lot of their ideas - but not everything can be relayed that way. It's a very good point you bring up.

Droid
04-30-2007, 10:17 AM
Forget about trying to empathesize with multiple characters. Pulp Fiction is an interesting piece. Even though it seems to have an anti-plot you still empathize with Samuel Jackson's character because of his enlightenment. He is subjected to conflict and learns from it. Sure other characters also face challenges, but Samuel Jackson's character is the only one that visibly grows from it. Maybe its because the audience has the benefit of seeing him in three of the five subplots. Nevertheless he is the pulse of Pulp Fiction.

Which is why I thought he was the one who should have been up for Best Actor rather than Travolta. I always thought if you had to pick the main character of Pulp Fiction it was Jules.

Droid
04-30-2007, 10:32 AM
Spike is a nickname, and somewhere along the line you might want to show were Sam got it. Sparkplug is not Mr. Whitwicky's given name for certain. I don't think Spike would be either.

If Spike's father called him Sam that would be fine, but there is no reason that the press materials would not be calling him Spike if he was going to be called Spike for the majority of the movie. I think Bay and his cronies decided they didn't like the name Spike so they didn't use it. It's not like they need to build it up so that we can see why he is called Spike so that he goes by Spike in the sequels. :rolleyes:


Regardless, there had to be a story that a boy too old to begin the training was apprenticed by a Jedi too young to be a Master, and he had a lifelong obsession with 1 girl that would be his undoing, while events conspired to use his love and attachments to turn him to the Dark Side.

Not to stray too far from the Transformers in this thread, but we didn't have to have a story about a boy too old to begin training, a boy who had a lifelong obsession with a girl that would be his undoing, or that events would conspire to use his love and attachments to turn him to the Dark Side. NONE of that was set up in the original trilogy. What was set up in the trilogy was a boy who wouldn't stay on the farm and a young Jedi who thought he could train an apprentice as well as his master. We didn't get that in the prequels. There was nothing in the original trilogy about a GIRL being Anakin's undoing. There was nothing in the original trilogy about attachments being bad. The prequels stripped the Jedi of their humanity and compassion and that was unforgivable. The Jedi were never supposed to be Vulcans.

I think that most of us who wish the prequels had been different ulitmately feel that whether there are direct contradictions or not between the two trilogies we didn't get the story that we were promised and that we feel that story we were promised was more compelling than the one we got. Why not have Obi-wan do everything Qui-Gon did since we didn't need a Qui-Gon character anyway? Why not have Yoda as Obi-wan's primary on screen mentor? Why not have Owen and Beru be more than extras? Why not take some time to show Anakin and Obi-wan as good friends (their friendship could have been the reason Obi-wan wasn't the best teacher, he wouldn't have felt comfortable disciplining as all good teachers need to, instead Obi-wan and Anakin bickered and bickered and bickered)? Why not show Obi-wan directly serving under Bail Organa? WHY?!


That's good for the episodic TV series, not really an action-drama.

The original trilogy very effectively set up the dynamic between Owen and Obi-wan and Owen and Luke. It didn't take much time and it didn't drag down the story. They could have explored the Owen and Anakin and Ben relationships in the same effective manner.

Tycho
04-30-2007, 11:55 AM
Droid, I can't argue with anything you said. Everything was both logical and possible for me to agree with. I would have liked it if the prequels were done as you suggested, too. I do like the movies we got. However, there did have to be a girl for Luke and Leia to be conceived.

As to the Jedi of the Old Republic being Vulcan-like with no emotion? Nothing was really known about them in the original trilogy. We only met Obi-Wan and Yoda from that era, and they had been changed by "whatever had happened before Episode 4."

So portraying the Jedi as following their code...."The is no emotion...there is peace," etc. was not contradictory, it just might not be to your taste. It does set up an easy contrast with the Sith however. As Anakin stated (in the opera scene, "The Sith give in to their passion..." etc. (something like that).

Droid
04-30-2007, 12:51 PM
I would have liked it if the prequels were done as you suggested, too. I do like the movies we got. However, there did have to be a girl for Luke and Leia to be conceived.

I like them too, more so than people might think. I just am baffled by those who blindly defend them as though they are the natural and logical lead in for the original trilogy. I spend so much time discussing those points that some might think I hated the prequels!

And yes, there had to be a girl. I would have had her be hurt by Anakin's choices, not the catalyst for them.

Tycho
04-30-2007, 04:06 PM
And yes, there had to be a girl. I would have had her be hurt by Anakin's choices, not the catalyst for them.

Having a baby or babies with someone is (probably) a very emotional experience - then to lose them. I think that part was a logical catalyst, as were the comparisons drawn with protecting the love interest with rescuing his mother. That was all very natural to me. By extension, making it a forbidden love kept it shrouded in secrecy, which helped with eventually hiding Luke and Leia. That's all very logical when it comes down to it.

Anakin trusting Palpatine with all of this after he reveals he's the Sith Lord and killed 4 members of the Jedi High Council was sort of far-fetched though.

Droid
04-30-2007, 05:09 PM
Having a baby or babies with someone is (probably) a very emotional experience - then to lose them. I think that part was a logical catalyst, as were the comparisons drawn with protecting the love interest with rescuing his mother. That was all very natural to me. By extension, making it a forbidden love kept it shrouded in secrecy, which helped with eventually hiding Luke and Leia. That's all very logical when it comes down to it.

Anakin trusting Palpatine with all of this after he reveals he's the Sith Lord and killed 4 members of the Jedi High Council was sort of far-fetched though.

I think the original trilogy led us to believe that the power available to Anakin through the Dark Side was what seduced him. I know you can say that the power would have allowed him to save Padme, but I think we were led to believe he wanted power in the classic sense. I think that the idea of the Emperor seducing him with the ability to be second in command of the galaxy and to run it the way they saw fit, to eliminate the bureaucracy of the Republic, would have been a good route to focus on completely. The saving Padme from death business was unnecessary nonsense.

Yes, Palpatine taking out all the Jedi Masters was really poorly done. But THAT would not make my Top Ten list of problems with the prequels.

So what about Transformers now?

Tycho
04-30-2007, 05:23 PM
So what about Transformers now?


I think they're large robots that turn into cars or something. Actually, I heard I know more about it than the guy directing the movie :D

JediTricks
05-01-2007, 01:56 PM
Having a baby or babies with someone is (probably) a very emotional experience - then to lose them. I don't think Anakin showed any real interest in that situation, and by then he was so selfish about Padme that I doubt he would have been willing to share her love with a child.



I think the original trilogy led us to believe that the power available to Anakin through the Dark Side was what seduced him.This is very true, and supported further by Lucas' earlier drafts where a Padawan Jedi takes a Kiber Crystal for himself and turns to the Bogan - the dark side of the Force of Others.

Qui-Long Gone
05-03-2007, 08:13 PM
I don't think Anakin showed any real interest in that situation, and by then he was so selfish about Padme that I doubt he would have been willing to share her love with a child.


This is very true, and supported further by Lucas' earlier drafts where a Padawan Jedi takes a Kiber Crystal for himself and turns to the Bogan - the dark side of the Force of Others.

No, Anakin did show interest in the baby....in fact, when he met up with Padme after Palps rescue it was the only genuine response he (that is the actor) gave when he comforted Padme with the child being a blessing....yes he was selfish for Padme and fathers generally aren't as excited about babies in the early stages (trust me) but they eventually warm up to the idea, and at least at that moment in the film, Anakin seemed genuinely happy Padme was preggs....

*The Bogan? Thank god they settled on Dark Side of the Force.....

JediTricks
05-04-2007, 09:37 PM
I didn't say he didn't show interest, I said I thought he didn't show REAL interest.


There are so many silly names in Lucas' mind that it's boggling the prequels aren't more embarrassing. :p

Qui-Long Gone
05-07-2007, 12:49 AM
I didn't say he didn't show interest, I said I thought he didn't show REAL interest.


There are so many silly names in Lucas' mind that it's boggling the prequels aren't more embarrassing. :p

Could part of the problem be that Hayden didn't show any REAL acting??? ;)

*Do you think Lucas keeps a little blue notebook for every name he comes up with....like he writes down everyone he knows and spells their name backwards to make it sound Star Warsy....Admiral Kcir Mullaccm, bounty hunter Nosirrahdorf, Darth Tturbneb, or Captain Nevets Burgspiel....or he'll take ordinary stuff that start with the letter 'W,' drop the first letter and replace it (or add on at the end) with the letters 'G' or 'D'....Geed Eater, Delcome Mat, D'hirl Poolg? lol

Tycho
05-07-2007, 01:08 AM
I don't know about all that, but I just watched Spider-Man 3 with one of my best friends and Star Wars buddies today.

His comment was that James Franco (Harry / Green Goblin 2) was such a good actor that he would have rocked as Anakin Skywalker.

In truth, Franco's lead role in 2006's Flyboys was the best movie of last year (he played a WWI fighter pilot ace - one of the world's very first) in an awesome movie.

I guess he's passed the age where he could have played Sam in Transformers (but I have not seen Shai LeBouf in a movie before - so he might be very good. LeBouf is perfect for one of the lead roles in the movie to the novel I'm writing if that could ever happen).

Nevertheless, it doesn't impact the fact that James Franco's a good actor.

JediTricks
05-07-2007, 04:09 PM
Could part of the problem be that Hayden didn't show any REAL acting??? ;) A distinct possibility, though I got the sense that the crap acting fit with Lucas' crap writing for the issue. :p


*Do you think Lucas keeps a little blue notebook for every name he comes up with....like he writes down everyone he knows and spells their name backwards to make it sound Star Warsy....Admiral Kcir Mullaccm, bounty hunter Nosirrahdorf, Darth Tturbneb, or Captain Nevets Burgspiel....or he'll take ordinary stuff that start with the letter 'W,' drop the first letter and replace it (or add on at the end) with the letters 'G' or 'D'....Geed Eater, Delcome Mat, D'hirl Poolg? lolHe absolutely does keep a list of those crazy SW names, it's mentioned in the recently-released Making of SW book, that's how we got Utapau in Ep 3 and other ridiculous junk. He's got some backwards names, but some are just weird crap he pulled out of thin air.



I don't know about all that, but I just watched Spider-Man 3 with one of my best friends and Star Wars buddies today.

His comment was that James Franco (Harry / Green Goblin 2) was such a good actor that he would have rocked as Anakin Skywalker.Guldernit, your friend is totally right, James Franco would have made a much better Anakin! Heck, in '99 he would have been a late teenager and would have been able to play slave Anakin (as Lucas originally designed the character, a teenager, not a cherubic 9-year-old played by a 7-year-old) and then play adult Anakin in '02 and '05. He has the harder edge and darkness to him, but he also can soften up, AND he's a decent actor all around. Hell, James Franco even has the same birthday as Hayden, just 3 years earlier!!!

Tycho
05-08-2007, 04:21 AM
Actual Movie Scene -SPOILERS! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=01Uky6nQJVQ)

This was on the Ellen Degeneres show and I found the link on TFW2005.com.

It shows one scene from the beginning of the movie. You've seen part of it in the trailer already.

I'd play NRG's "Instruments of Destruction" during the end of this scene and as the attack continues.

I don't know what to think of it. It's ho-hum. Obviously designed to make the human characters in the film seem real and somewhat "1-dimensional." ;)

From the scene as it stands, I don't care if Blackout steps on Josh Dumahl or not (he steps on Tyrese Gibson instead, as we've also seen in the trailer).

In any case, I think this is cut a little as the scene seems rushed. Perhaps it played short for Ellen's show, but hopefully the time is a little extended in the actual movie.

MARK RYAN has also been confirmed as the voice of Ironhide. Sort of a shame because Peter Cullen is right there playing Optimus Prime and Cullen was also the traditional Ironhide. It worked for all the other incarnations of Transformers that I'm familiar with including the 1986 film that saw Cullen "talking to himself" with:

"I want you to make a special run to Autobot City on Earth..."

"But Prime!"

"No argument Ironhide. We don't have enough energon to launch a full scale attack..."

Ji'dai
05-13-2007, 11:43 AM
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I apologize if this has already been discussed - I saw the Transformers movie "prequel novel" at Wal-Mart yesterday. Written by SW EU alum Alan Dean Foster, it's called Ghosts of Yesterday or something like that. The blurb on the back says that an expedition discovers a robotic creature frozen in the Arctic ice. Trying to reverse engineer the thing, a distress call is sent which is received by both Autobots and Decepticons, and soon an alien civil war spreads to Earth... Anyone read it yet? It looked interesting, but I didn't pick it up.

Tycho
05-14-2007, 02:10 AM
Yes, it's pretty poorly written. Alan Dean Foster is not the tip of the sword.

His human characters are the best developed, but wouldn't you be buying this book to read about Transformers?

I rest my case.

Qui-Long Gone
05-14-2007, 08:21 AM
but wouldn't you be buying this book to read about Transformers?


...Transformers? What are those?

So let me get this straight, a story about humans who incidentally bump into a life altering epic war....are you sure the book wasn't Bay's screenplay for Pearl Harbor?

Tycho
05-14-2007, 06:45 PM
TFW2005 posted this link to interviews with Bay, Megan Fox, Shai LeBouf, and 2 more cast members. (http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5665) They're really insightful (and Megan Fox seems really cool!). Click on each name below the article to read their interview. I think you'll find it interesting.

Tycho
05-17-2007, 03:16 AM
A new TV Spot or The New Trailer? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVJ06ixj19Q).

It's pretty cool. Once again Starscream transforming looks amazing (the animatics). I still don't like his design and I imagine how cool it would be to see the G1 Starscream doing all that (but painted realistic colors nevertheless).

El Chuxter
05-17-2007, 11:26 AM
This aired last night during American Idol, so it's authentic.

I groaned loudly. I then told my wife that the only good thing coming from this is that the soundtrack to the original film is being re-released in expanded form.

This does not feel like Transformers at all. Forget the stupid design changes, etc. There's no sense of wonder, no characterization evident, just a bunch of explosions and crap. This is just Bad Alien Invasion Movie XII: This Time They Turn Into Cars. I hate Michael Bay so much right now, I could perform all sorts of unspeakable violence upon his person if we were in the same room.

seanmcfripp
05-17-2007, 12:54 PM
Just watched the new theater trailer, and I'm officially all geeked out now. Lot'sa shots of robots in action, and I can't say I'm disappointed. After seeing Starscream do some of the crazy stuff he does in the film, his simian design makes a little more sense now. Tell me that shot of him flying down on top of those soldiers, then transforming right on top of them wasn’t totally cool.

Call me crazy, but I think this movie is totally going to work. Michael Bay’s juvenile taste and style fits something like Transformers perfectly. And trust me, I’m no fan of his work...at all. He was born to direct this stuff though.

Qui-Long Gone
05-17-2007, 12:59 PM
This aired last night during American Idol, so it's authentic.

I groaned loudly. I then told my wife that the only good thing coming from this is that the soundtrack to the original film is being re-released in expanded form.

This does not feel like Transformers at all. Forget the stupid design changes, etc. There's no sense of wonder, no characterization evident, just a bunch of explosions and crap. This is just Bad Alien Invasion Movie XII: This Time They Turn Into Cars. I hate Michael Bay so much right now, I could perform all sorts of unspeakable violence upon his person if we were in the same room.

Wait a minute....you were watching American Idol? What crime did you commit?

El Chuxter
05-17-2007, 03:16 PM
Just saw the new trailer.

This looks more like butt every time I see more of it.

It's impossible to follow what's going on with all these robots that are just mishmashes of random pieces of metal bouncing around like hyperactive lemurs on crystal meth.

This looks less like Transformers, and more like something I'd find in my cats' litter box.

Michael Bay, you are truly the antichrist. Damn you to hell, you SOB. :mad:

I doubt I'll see this in theaters. Hell, I doubt I'll watch it on cable.

Again, **** you, Michael Bay. I hope you get some kind of flesh eating bacteria that slowly and painfully devours you, starting at your tiny little gonads.

El Chuxter
05-17-2007, 03:34 PM
Sorry for the double post. I just saw the version with the extra footage at the end.

"If my parents see you, they're going to freak."

Where is the "vomit" smiley?

I hate you more now than I did five minutes ago, Michael Bay. And that's not nearly as much as I'm certain to hate you tomorrow.

I would rather watch a movie about an ape pooping on a squirrel for two hours than this ****.

Tycho
05-17-2007, 04:02 PM
Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of...The Decepticons! (http://movies.yahoo.com/summer-movies/Transformers/1808716430/trailers/31/180) - Here's the direct link to the trailer. The movie trailer (Optimus Prime doesn't have a trailer in this version)


I have tears in my eyes from seeing Optimus Prime in action! He has forever been my biggest hero! I loved the transformation noise being put in there. Is it only for Prime? I didn't hear that with Starscream, Blackout, or BumbleBee.

I saw a definite movie spoiler confirmed in that trailer regarding a death of one of the characters. Just say, "Uh-huh" if you noticed what I was talking about. It's sad. But at least I know that is how it happens. It's exactly like I figured it would.

Sam and his Dad's interaction was great in the first scene actually (the Porsche dealership). A deliberate shot at the German car company who could have starred as Jazz were it not for their war machines rules?

This movie has me so excited. I so wish there were MPEs and Alternators of these characters ready to go. I'm hearing some good reviews of the movie toys, but my tastes are somewhat eccentric. There's a reason I only have 13 Transformers (Alts and MPEs) and of those I own the most expensive ones. (MPE 01 Prime rules!!!)

But every day I've been considering doing things like buying the Leader Class Prime and starting a collection of the movie toys. You never know. I think I'll run out to the stores again and see what they have if at least to look.

There's nothing so cool as Transformers since Star Wars. I've been waiting so long for a live action movie (of G1). This is sort of bringing me what I want. Optimus Prime voiced by Peter Cullen is in this movie!!!!!

General_Grievous
05-17-2007, 04:07 PM
I groaned loudly. I then told my wife that the only good thing coming from this is that the soundtrack to the original film is being re-released in expanded form.

I think the only good thing to come out of this movie is Megan Fox.

http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15219&d=1174140270 :love:

Just watched the new trailer. The action scenes look cool, but everything else (with the exception of Megan Fox) looks awful. I almost vomited when Bernie Mac said "A driver don't pick the car. The car picks the driver. It's a mystical bond between man and machine." What the f*** kind of bulls*** is that? Who wrote this movie?

El Chuxter
05-17-2007, 04:20 PM
I saw a definite movie spoiler confirmed in that trailer regarding a death of one of the characters. Just say, "Uh-huh" if you noticed what I was talking about. It's sad. But at least I know that is how it happens. It's exactly like I figured it would.

How can it be? Aside from some blue highlights on Prime and some yellow highlights on Bumblebee, they all look the same. And they look more like they're searching for the One Ring than for this "Allspark" garbage. :rolleyes:

GG, Megan Fox is a cutie. But hot actresses are a dime a dozen. Anyone going to see a movie based upon the Transformers is not looking for eye candy. They want a movie about a big red semi truck named Optimus Prime, fighting his archnemesis, Megatron. And not about a monkey who turns into an airplane.

Seriously, when the hell would Starscream do that? He's cocky, he's brash, and he's the Air Commander. But he's vain and a coward, too. If they're changing all the characters, why bother using the original names?

Oh, and Mr Bay, I hate you more now than five minutes ago.