PDA

View Full Version : Live action Transformers movie.



Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7

JediTricks
05-17-2007, 06:05 PM
This does not feel like Transformers at all. Forget the stupid design changes, etc. There's no sense of wonder, no characterization evident, just a bunch of explosions and crap. This is just Bad Alien Invasion Movie XII: This Time They Turn Into Cars. I hate Michael Bay so much right now, I could perform all sorts of unspeakable violence upon his person if we were in the same room.Yeah, I feel pretty much the same, though I'm not as surprised because I knew this was coming. But man, that trailer really deflated my day.


Just saw the new trailer.

This looks more like butt every time I see more of it.

It's impossible to follow what's going on with all these robots that are just mishmashes of random pieces of metal bouncing around like hyperactive lemurs on crystal meth.Yeah, totally! I rewatched it and it took a turn downward - not even sure how that was possible. And there's no weight to these guys in this thing, just CGI tinfoil smashing into stuff.


Just watched the new trailer. The action scenes look cool, but everything else (with the exception of Megan Fox) looks awful. I almost vomited when Bernie Mac said "A driver don't pick the car. The car picks the driver. It's a mystical bond between man and machine." What the f*** kind of bulls*** is that? Who wrote this movie?Yeah, totally agreed with that too, and that line is just such pap too.


How can it be? Aside from some blue highlights on Prime and some yellow highlights on Bumblebee, they all look the same. And they look more like they're searching for the One Ring than for this "Allspark" garbage. :rolleyes:They're all generic pointy twisted piecey junk, they all look the same.


So now apparently the robots aren't in disguise to the world by the middle of the movie too, great call. LAME!!!

DarthQuack
05-17-2007, 07:59 PM
I have to admit I got some goosebumps when seeing Optimus start to transform.....was really hoping to hear Peter's voice though..

figrin bran
05-17-2007, 11:33 PM
It's impossible to follow what's going on with all these robots that are just mishmashes of random pieces of metal bouncing around like hyperactive lemurs on crystal meth.



i like this quote too Chux! :thumbsup:

you'd think that robots that weigh several tons wouldn't be bouncing around like that.

Qui-Long Gone
05-17-2007, 11:52 PM
I sure hope this film is 'more than meets the eye' :(

seanmcfripp
05-18-2007, 08:55 PM
I'm not sure I understand all the hate here fellas, and this is coming from one of the biggest hatuhs of them all.

The Bernie Mac line: Why does everyone think this is cheesy? He's a car salesman, and he's getting this stupid kid to buy an old POS Camaro. In context, the line seems totally appropriate to me. I can remember some of the crap people told me when I bought my first car. "Wow man, this VW Golf really defines you. You look like a VW guy, this car totally fits you." Honest to goodness, that's what the guy told me. I think it's a rather clever line actually. Here you have a slimy car salesman saying what he has to in order to get this kid to buy a car, yet at the same time the writers are using his dialogue to allude to what's really going on in the story, albeit in a sort of dumbed down, vanilla way (something thatís par for the course with these big blockbuster type movies). But it's not the worst line in the world. For what this movie is supposed to be, I like it.

Generic twisty junk: Do these robots all really look the same to you guys? It's one thing to say you hate the overall aesthetic, but saying there's no difference between them seems a little harsh to me. I was right there in the beginning with all the haters saying how the new designs were carp and yadayada, but after living with them for the last year or so and seeing them within the context of the film, I totally get it. These things look pretty much like an alien race of machines might really have evolved in our physical universe. Seeing them move around and do all the stuff they do in the film, I can buy into it without too much suspension of disbelief. The classic blocky designs would have been a really tough sell.

This whole uproar reminds me of Bat fans going crazy over the Tumbler. Iíll admit, I was right there with thinking, "What the f, the Batmobile is sports car. It's always been a sports car. What the heck is that tank thing? That's not very Batman at all." But once you let go of your expectations of what you think the Batmobile is supposed to be, then buy into Nolan's explanation of his Batman universe, you can't help but think the Tumbler is cool. And it really is cool. The Tumbler rocks.

Cut Bay and the production folks a little slack. They've showed us what to expect as far as the look and feel of the movie is concerned. We've griped about it, and they've tried to explain their decisions. I'm ok with the explanations so far, and I'm ok with everything I've seen. Luckily, the makers of this film have been pretty good about telling us that this isn't meant to be a film based solely on our beloved G1 universe. Knowing that, I think it's been easier to keep an open mind. I think you guys are missing out on what's going to be a pretty cool movie franchise.

General_Grievous
05-18-2007, 09:18 PM
In regards to the talk of the robots looking alike, they do kind of blend in with each other. The only really distinguishable ones are Optimus Prime and Bumblebee (the latter because he's bright yellow). The rest all look like twisted piles of metal, one of them in the shape of a scorpion.

JetsAndHeels
05-18-2007, 10:16 PM
I admit, I was hating the way this movie looked earlier...now that yesterday's trailer came up and I saw it I am liking it more. I don't post alot in this TF thread but believe me I have been anticipating this movie along with all of you. I am really hoping this thing does well....its that type of summer blockbuster that will either hit it right on the money or miss the target altogether.
I am with you sean, I think it will be a fun summer movie.

JediTricks
05-19-2007, 05:18 PM
The Bernie Mac line: Why does everyone think this is cheesy? He's a car salesman, and he's getting this stupid kid to buy an old POS Camaro. In context, the line seems totally appropriate to me. I can remember some of the crap people told me when I bought my first car. "Wow man, this VW Golf really defines you. You look like a VW guy, this car totally fits you." Honest to goodness, that's what the guy told me. I think it's a rather clever line actually. Here you have a slimy car salesman saying what he has to in order to get this kid to buy a car, yet at the same time the writers are using his dialogue to allude to what's really going on in the story, albeit in a sort of dumbed down, vanilla way (something thatís par for the course with these big blockbuster type movies). But it's not the worst line in the world. For what this movie is supposed to be, I like it.That's not at all what's going on here though, Bernie Mac is being sincere and spouting dialogue that is the kind of sentimentality found in the first Herbie the Love Bug movie (that movie breaks my heart BTW, when poor Herbie goes to kill himself after Jim is such a jerkweed to him, so sad) but it doesn't fit at all with THIS film and not with a friggin' 1976 Camaro, it instead comes off as pap because it's so badly out of place in a movie like this - it's trying too hard to be a heartwarming, "important" Spielberg moment.


Generic twisty junk: Do these robots all really look the same to you guys? It's one thing to say you hate the overall aesthetic, but saying there's no difference between them seems a little harsh to me. I was right there in the beginning with all the haters saying how the new designs were carp and yadayada, but after living with them for the last year or so and seeing them within the context of the film, I totally get it. These things look pretty much like an alien race of machines might really have evolved in our physical universe. Seeing them move around and do all the stuff they do in the film, I can buy into it without too much suspension of disbelief. The classic blocky designs would have been a really tough sell.Yeah, it's hard to tell 1 for the other except for Prime and Bee who are colored way different from the others, the majority look like piecey random silver tangles running into each other.

And I also don't think these look like how a living being would look, these are very exposed to the point of danger, you shove a piece of rebar into Prime's exposed arms or chest or that tiny knee and he's going to get jacked up, that's why nearly all large beings have a covering skin to protect internal mechanisms, even classic TFs. Plus, they seem alien for the sake of being alien, if you're going to bother to do humanoid robots, why stop halfway and decide to go roboinsect?


This whole uproar reminds me of Bat fans going crazy over the Tumbler. Iíll admit, I was right there with thinking, "What the f, the Batmobile is sports car. It's always been a sports car. What the heck is that tank thing? That's not very Batman at all." But once you let go of your expectations of what you think the Batmobile is supposed to be, then buy into Nolan's explanation of his Batman universe, you can't help but think the Tumbler is cool. And it really is cool. The Tumbler rocks. I was one of the early proponents of the Tumbler after a very short period of trepidation, but nothing of the sort has happened here with these TFs, they've remained unpleasant.


Cut Bay and the production folks a little slack. They've showed us what to expect as far as the look and feel of the movie is concerned. We've griped about it, and they've tried to explain their decisions. I'm ok with the explanations so far, and I'm ok with everything I've seen. Luckily, the makers of this film have been pretty good about telling us that this isn't meant to be a film based solely on our beloved G1 universe. Knowing that, I think it's been easier to keep an open mind. I think you guys are missing out on what's going to be a pretty cool movie franchise.Why should I cut Bay any slack? He's used a beloved franchise to further his own selfish, sick agenda (he wanted in on a family franchise, and he wanted to do an alien invasion film), and he's been an insulting jackass about it the entire time, he's done absolutely nothing to earn our patience or respect. And keep in mind that I've gone from loathing Don Murphy to actually feeling some measure of understanding and begrudging respect after seeing what he said at that Canadian Transformers con last year, so it is within me to give on these people, but only when I feel it's warranted.

General_Grievous
05-19-2007, 08:34 PM
They're already talking about a sequel.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5708

Those producers are getting way ahead of themselves. If this movie bombs (which it has a strong chance of doing, since "Harry Potter" opens up a little more than a week after it), this "franchise" is finished.

Droid
05-19-2007, 08:46 PM
Oh thank God they got the main female human lead to sign up for the next movie. Where or where would the franchise be without the hot chick?

Tycho
05-19-2007, 08:52 PM
Transformers will become "the next Star Wars," or so Michael Bay hopes.

Upcoming characters?

Autobots: Wheeljack, Hound, Mirage (my money's on). I don't think they'll go into Generation 1.5 (Springer, Arcee, Hot Rod, etc. and I could live without it).

Decepticons: Skywarp, Thundercracker, Shockwave (won't be a gun), Ravage (possibly - don't know what his Alt form will be), perhaps other Constructicons (non-combigning). Maybe Astrotrain and Blitzwing.

I think doing combiners is a mistake for a realistic live-action movie. "Go-go-Power Rangers!!!" It'll look silly.

If they build Dinobots, using the Wheeljack storyline from G1 is one of the only ways I can think it could work. Otherwise, maybe they were frozen ancient Cybertronian travelers captured by the earth's climate change the way Megatron was captured in the Arctic?

With Scorponok being introduced in this film as he is, I don't think the Insecticons are out of the range of possibilities - as giant insects, too. Real scorpions are obviously not larger than UPS Trucks. So thus I could see a large Kickback, Bombshell, and Shrapnell. They might be the reason why someone like Wheeljack and Ratchet build Dinobots in the first place.

Doing Devastator would again be tough to make real. And unless they rebuild Bonecrusher as he appears in this movie, it's hard to keep the Constructicons consistent, because BC isn't already.

BTW: what's the deal with Brawl? I haven't seen him in trailers and he was omitted from the prequel novel.

General_Grievous
05-19-2007, 09:49 PM
Transformers will become "the next Star Wars," or so Michael Bay hopes.

Eh, that's a tall order from him. It won't happen, of course. In my opinion, only one trilogy has had the same effect on cinema as "Star Wars", and that's the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. And regarding success, maybe the "Indiana Jones", "Spider-Man" and "Pirates of the Caribbean" films. "Transformers" will be lucky if it even achieves the financial and critical success that came with "Star Wars".

Tycho
05-20-2007, 01:36 AM
One Matrix to rule them all.

May the AllSpark be with you.

Live long and transform.

My energon senses are tingling.

Transform everything and give back nothing.

You know - it might still work. Now we need to find out that Alpha Trion was actually a midget who turns into a vacuum cleaner and trains Optimus in the ways of the AllSpark.

Qui-Long Gone
05-20-2007, 07:30 PM
I've got a bad Wheelie about this...

JediTricks
05-20-2007, 09:53 PM
They're already talking about a sequel.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5708

Those producers are getting way ahead of themselves. If this movie bombs (which it has a strong chance of doing, since "Harry Potter" opens up a little more than a week after it), this "franchise" is finished.They were talking about a sequel since day 1 of this project, that was one of the main factors that got Michael Bay onboard, he wanted to get in on the ground floor of a family franchise. And the worst part is, they'll probably get a sequel out of this turd because of overseas audiences being suckers, investments made into the completed CGI, and a lack of expensive recurring actors.


Oh thank God they got the main female human lead to sign up for the next movie. Where or where would the franchise be without the hot chick?Yeah, she's really gone out on a limb here, making sure it won't conflict with her big future plans of "nothing", plus risking her current reputation should it tank since after all it could hurt her current career with "jack squat".


Eh, that's a tall order from him. It won't happen, of course. In my opinion, only one trilogy has had the same effect on cinema as "Star Wars", and that's the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. And regarding success, maybe the "Indiana Jones", "Spider-Man" and "Pirates of the Caribbean" films. "Transformers" will be lucky if it even achieves the financial and critical success that came with "Star Wars".Bay has no understanding of what he wants here, I suspect he hopes for a franchise out of ALL of his movies, even Pearl Harbor.

Tycho
05-20-2007, 10:53 PM
Would "Hiroshima" be the sequel to Pearl Harbor, JediTricks? :D

Qui-Long Gone
05-20-2007, 11:14 PM
No, Tycho I think it would be Godzilla....;)

JediTricks
05-21-2007, 04:47 PM
Would "Hiroshima" be the sequel to Pearl Harbor, JediTricks? :D
No, that's crass.

Bay probably would have either made more stuff up entirely, or found some battle where there was a woman and some loud rock music and the ability to have a lot of action scenes and exploited the hell out of it. :p

El Chuxter
05-22-2007, 03:09 PM
I never cared one way or the other about The Tumbler before BB came out. Batman's car does not define Batman. The Transformers' forms do define them, though.

Only the entire middle hour of the movie being a live action version of the Quintessa battle, complete with bad jokes from the Dinobots, all using the original voice actors, while the Dixie Chicks dance around provocatively in skimpy negligee in the foreground... only that could possibly save this movie.

Qui-Long Gone
05-22-2007, 07:13 PM
I never cared one way or the other about The Tumbler before BB came out. Batman's car does not define Batman. The Transformers' forms do define them, though.

Only the entire middle hour of the movie being a live action version of the Quintessa battle, complete with bad jokes from the Dinobots, all using the original voice actors, while the Dixie Chicks dance around provocatively in skimpy negligee in the foreground... only that could possibly save this movie.

Quick, send that memo to Bay....he may actually agree that your idea is genius and try to use it!!!!!!!!!

El Chuxter
05-22-2007, 07:40 PM
Dude, if I thought he would use it, I'd send it to him in a heartbeat. Natalie Maines in skimpy negligee? Dude, the giant robot T-Rex talking about kicking butt would be total icing on the cake. :beard:

Qui-Long Gone
05-22-2007, 07:45 PM
Could you sell it if you suggested each Chick be a Dinobot, or the voice of a Dino?

El Chuxter
05-22-2007, 07:48 PM
Only if the Dixie Chicks voice Slag, Sludge, and Grimlock (Natalie being Grimlock, of course), using the original dialogue, while the original voice actors sing "Not Ready to Make Nice" in the Dinobot voices.

Qui-Long Gone
05-22-2007, 08:00 PM
EC your version already sounds more entertaining than Bay's...:laugh:

seanmcfripp
05-22-2007, 08:29 PM
That's not at all what's going on here though, Bernie Mac is being sincere and spouting dialogue that is the kind of sentimentality found in the first Herbie the Love Bug movie (that movie breaks my heart BTW, when poor Herbie goes to kill himself after Jim is such a jerkweed to him, so sad) but it doesn't fit at all with THIS film and not with a friggin' 1976 Camaro, it instead comes off as pap because it's so badly out of place in a movie like this - it's trying too hard to be a heartwarming, "important" Spielberg moment.

Let me start by saying that I haven't read the script. With that in mind, I don't really know how the whole car-buying scene plays out. I've read descriptions of Bernie Mac's character that say he's a shady car salesman, and I've read plot summaries that seem to indicate the scene is played for humor, and that Bernie Mac is supposed to be funny. So without knowing the exact dialogue and layout of the scene, I'm just kinda filling in the gaps and taking a guess. If anyone here's read the script, please set me straight, I don't mind the plot being "spoiled."

I picture Sam going to buy his first car, encountering this really sleazy guy who smells blood in the water the minute he walks onto the lot. I'm guessing Sam says he wants a cool car, something sporty, and maybe even says he wants a car that will impress the chicks. At that point, maybe Sam sees this beat up old Camaro and gets lost in the moment, thinking he can fix it up to make it a cool car again. I can see how maybe the writers could really play up the humor by having Bernie Mac's character improvise a sale for a car he knows doesn't belong to his dealership, while simultaneously trying to figure out how this weird car got on the lot. I'm very serious when I say that a scene like that has some potential for humor. Once he sees that Sam is caught up in the idea of buying this old clunker, he drives the sale home by telling him that he was meant to have this car, that it's a mystical thing going on, and blah blah blah. I'm almost certain the character isn't serious when he's saying this, and doesn't actually believe a word of it, but that's not the point. Through this slimy guy, the storytellers are letting the audience in on a little bit of what's really happening in the movie.

Of course I'm probably totally wrong, and all you guys who've read the script can correct me and tell me what an idiot I am. If the scene plays in a way that's drastically different form the one I've described, then they missed a good opportunity to advance the story in a nice way.


Yeah, it's hard to tell 1 for the other except for Prime and Bee who are colored way different from the others, the majority look like piecey random silver tangles running into each other.

Not really sure how to reach common ground on this one. I guess you either like the way they look, or you don't. Maybe if I put it this way: I like the look of Sauron's armor from the Fellowship of the Ring film. Megatron's look in the movie has a similar style. So yeah, it's different than what I'm used to after 20 some years, but after seeing him in action in the trailer, I like it. And I really like Bionicle, so maybe that’s ruined my taste in good mech design.


And I also don't think these look like how a living being would look, these are very exposed to the point of danger, you shove a piece of rebar into Prime's exposed arms or chest or that tiny knee and he's going to get jacked up, that's why nearly all large beings have a covering skin to protect internal mechanisms, even classic TFs.

I think if you shoved a piece of rebar in my leg, or my dogs leg, or an elephants leg, we'd all get pretty jacked up. Hell, jam a pencil in my leg, and I'm out of commission.

These things look totally solid to me, almost muscular, which I think is the look they were going for. Every system of movement across their bodies looks to have some level of redundancy. If you shoot Prime in the leg, fine, he gets damaged, but it almost looks like something else within or close to the system that drives that legs picks up the slack to keep it going. And all those "twisty shreds of metal" look like a really dynamic and efficient system of armor to me.


Plus, they seem alien for the sake of being alien, if you're going to bother to do humanoid robots, why stop halfway and decide to go roboinsect?

I'm not really getting the insect vibe with the Autobots. The Decepticons, yes, but I think that's what ties them together stylistically as a team. They definitely look like the bad guys, and I'm sure that's what the filmmakers want the unfamiliar average Joe to think when they first see a Decepticon.


Why should I cut Bay any slack? He's used a beloved franchise to further his own selfish, sick agenda (he wanted in on a family franchise, and he wanted to do an alien invasion film)

Ahh, I love to hear JT get all riled up. I'm right there with ya on Bay. I absolutely can't stand his films. I know you gave a quick qualifying statement for "sick agenda," but can you elaborate a little more? I guess I'm hoping you'll be able to cue up an old Bay-bashing post that you've written. BTW, how do you do that with such ease? Do you have a secretary that combs through your old threads and posts? I wish I had a secretary...


...and he's been an insulting jackass about it the entire time

His smug mug says it all to me, but what exactly did he do that was insulting?


...he's done absolutely nothing to earn our patience or respect.
Should he have been more Nolanesque (BB) in sharing his vision for the film? Aside from the leaks that came out, yeah, not a whole lot ever came out from his camp. But I can't really fault a guy for that I guess. As much as it pains me to use the words "Bay" and "artist" in the same sentence, I'm sure deep down Bay thinks he's an artist, and he deserves to be able to present his art when it's ready and finished.


And keep in mind that I've gone from loathing Don Murphy to actually feeling some measure of understanding and begrudging respect after seeing what he said at that Canadian Transformers con last year, so it is within me to give on these people, but only when I feel it's warranted.

I must have missed what he said. I know Transfans seem to universally hate DM, so I'm interesting in knowing what he said to change your mind.

mabudonicus
05-23-2007, 09:22 AM
I figured it out last night- I think this film is more a re-make of Heartbeeps, if I may be so bold- Bay knew no-one would greenlight such a thing so he lied and called it "transformers", especially since I don't think there were toys from Heartbeeps and these days merchandise is KING
:beard: Iso & Baws
El Chuxter thinks Grimlock is pretty damn awesome

El Chuxter
05-23-2007, 10:50 AM
I figured it out last night- I think this film is more a re-make of Heartbeeps, if I may be so bold- Bay knew no-one would greenlight such a thing so he lied and called it "transformers", especially since I don't think there were toys from Heartbeeps and these days merchandise is KING
:beard: Iso & Baws
El Chuxter thinks Grimlock is pretty damn awesome

Holy crap, Heartbeeps? I think, even though an SSG thread was not involved, you just violently stole the Golden Shovel from Caesar.

Damn, I didn't know anyone watched that.

mabudonicus
05-23-2007, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the accolade Chux, it means a lot, sort of in a "king of the geeks" kind of way :D

No joke, I am not too sure that the film actually DID exist- I remember it being on the opening bit of... I'm gonna say "young Doctors in Love" which I was somehow allowed to watch in my youth. A few of my friends and I reference the film from time to time, saying "HeartBips" with a real bad Russian accent, try it- it's fun!!

All's I can really think is that the "Robots" angle in Transformers was done real well in that it wasn't belaboured- they just showed up and started kicking butt, basically, and usually the human characters were NOT slack-jawed idiots who couldn't get around the T-formers and their unusual traits. Hell, Spike played basketball with Prime (almost killed him, too, which REALLY showcases the "bewilderment" the T-formers inspired throughout the series)

From all I could gather, Heartbeeps was an outright FAILURE due to (prolly more than a few but heck) a few factors, most important being that the folks who would REALLY get behind a "robot" movie would NOT be clamouring for a stupid-arse romantic-comedy anymore than many (I would say "we" but from some responses in this thread I have a feeling that such an entity does not exist) of us T-fans want a psycho-drama/horror film from this turd.

Like the "Hulk" POS that dropped a few years ago- I KNOW, I KNOW, but hang on.... seriously, you want to know WHY the film wasn't immediately tagged for a sequel?? Cos it really, truly sucked. It was a completely unenjoyable, PLODDINGLY "heavy" piece of CRAP. I can't help but laugh when folks complain about the Hulk franchise being changed... you know what that means don't you?? It means that like it or not, no matter HOW moved some folks were by it, the money is saying it SUCKED.

No joke, after I calmed down from watching "Hulk" in the theatre, my first re-assuring thought was "OK, that was a waste of time and money but it literally sucked SO hard that I could see a re-set much sooner, there will be NO sequel" (I BET I posted that somewheres here, but all's I got was how I somehow "didn't get the film", so booyah, I AM right all the time)

I honestly predict that Transformers will follow the same path- wasn't there a LOT of talk about a Hulk sequel while the film was still in theatres (all 3 weeks)?? And didn't the talk sort of die out before the more recent announcements of the new, hopefully watchable Hulk project, the "rebirth" of the franchise after only one movie??

Since such a thing is possible, hell, even probable, I am gonna play the same game with this turd. Let all the apologists say how the "haters" are all crazy. Let this turd bomb and fester. Let it be forgotten, and let anyone who enjoyed the movie preach abou all the "reasons" why it was PERFECT as-is.

Then wait about 5 years and we'll get our perfected G1 film. Honestly, like Hulk, I'm more and more happy that this film looks SO OUTRAGEOUSLY STUPID. Had it been "close" we might have seen it die or move to straight-to-dvd. As it is, a good case could (and WILL, mark these words) be made for scrapping the entire thing and re-doing it right.

And another historical example- for everyone who would argue that the US "Godzilla" turd was "a good movie but some folks didn't understand it"

Toho retired Godzilla in 1994 to be brought "back" in 2004, his 50th anniversary. They basically "lent" the rights to the character to Tristar, to use while he was idle. After that "poor, misunderstood but still excellent" movie dropped and splattered all over the place, Toho cancelled the rights (maybe bought them back, I don't know, but if they were bought, money was NO object trust me) and brought Godzilla back to Japanese screens 4 years ahead of schedule just to attempt to undo the damage done to the character. Thansk goodness there's still enough folks out there who "get it".

That's why this T-formers movie is all fine by me, it'll suck so bad there'll be nothing left to do but apologize and make a "real" one.. just like what has happened to the Hulk franchise
:beard: Iso & Baws
Mabs usually doesn't post such lengthy, acidic diatribes, but here we are

El Chuxter
05-23-2007, 07:03 PM
I'd never even heard of Heartbeeps until a few years ago, when Varese-Sarabande re-released the soundtrack. I got that and the Sleepers soundtrack about the same time. Those two majorly ended my belief that John Williams could do no wrong. (Though, at least, Heartbeeps had a few tracks that were decent if you tuned out the goofy synth effects. Can't say that about Sleepers.)

The synopsis in the liner notes make it sound like it was actually worse than Mac & Me. (Put that in your pipe and smoke it, JJL.)

(mabudonicus is better known by his porno name, mebbeducks.)

JediTricks
05-24-2007, 03:26 AM
Not really sure how to reach common ground on this one. I guess you either like the way they look, or you don't. Maybe if I put it this way: I like the look of Sauron's armor from the Fellowship of the Ring film. Megatron's look in the movie has a similar style. So yeah, it's different than what I'm used to after 20 some years, but after seeing him in action in the trailer, I like it. And I really like Bionicle, so maybe thatís ruined my taste in good mech design.I really liked Sauron's armor, and I kinda like Bionicle, but neither of which make for a good Transformer.


I think if you shoved a piece of rebar in my leg, or my dogs leg, or an elephants leg, we'd all get pretty jacked up. Hell, jam a pencil in my leg, and I'm out of commission.The difference is that you and the animals all have skin to protect you from getting sticks and rocks and even rebar jammed in there, while these bots are open and gappy, if they stand still you can just slide it into the body parts.


Ahh, I love to hear JT get all riled up. I'm right there with ya on Bay. I absolutely can't stand his films. I know you gave a quick qualifying statement for "sick agenda," but can you elaborate a little more? I guess I'm hoping you'll be able to cue up an old Bay-bashing post that you've written. BTW, how do you do that with such ease? Do you have a secretary that combs through your old threads and posts? I wish I had a secretary...His sick agenda is to be in control of a family franchise which he believes means it'll have legs so he can just sit back and let the sucker kids buy tickets till he's a billionaire. Plus, he wants to make an unrelated movie out of this, that's pretty messed up, egotistical even.


His smug mug says it all to me, but what exactly did he do that was insulting? I don't have time to elaborate, but a few of his posts and comments have been especially nasty and smug as you put it. I think we've covered most in this thread.


Should he have been more Nolanesque (BB) in sharing his vision for the film? Aside from the leaks that came out, yeah, not a whole lot ever came out from his camp. But I can't really fault a guy for that I guess. As much as it pains me to use the words "Bay" and "artist" in the same sentence, I'm sure deep down Bay thinks he's an artist, and he deserves to be able to present his art when it's ready and finished.Bay has shared his vision though, his vision is of a scary alien invasion film that will net him big money, he's made no bones about his disinterest in the Transformers themselves.

I honestly don't think anybody who makes movies the way he does can consider themselves to be an artist making art, that'd be some heavy self-delusion.


I must have missed what he said. I know Transfans seem to universally hate DM, so I'm interesting in knowing what he said to change your mind.It's a series of 5 videos on youtube from a canadian transformers convention. http://www.transformerscon.com/videos.php

seanmcfripp
05-24-2007, 11:19 AM
It's a series of 5 videos on youtube from a canadian transformers convention. http://www.transformerscon.com/videos.php

Wow. I've never been to a convention before, and seeing something like this is...I don't even know what to say. I mean, I guess you always know that the various fandoms of all these little pop culture things out there are made up of some of the more awkward, socially unadjusted members of society, but jeezus, what is wrong with people? I swear to god, if a nerd convention ever comes anywhere near my town, I'm packing up my family and leaving until it's over.

That being said, all I could think the entire time I was watching was, "Poor Don Murphy." Why should anyone in his position have to waste even two minutes of his time answering retarded, rambling, incoherent questions from a buncha whiny, stammering losers? I'd just refuse to do it, flat out. The minute one of them asked how to audition as a voice actor, he should have just walked out. This group of rejects is going to make or break the hype machine for the Transfomers movie? Yeah right, Bay and company'll probably do ok to take their chances.

Are Star Wars conventions as bad as this one? Do people go up to the mike during these panel discussions and try to talk over the guest speakers? Do the same few alpha dorks keep getting in line over and over again to ask basically the same questions? Do people clap every five minutes? If they do, thank god I've never had the unpleasant experience of going to one of these things. What a total waste of time. At least on a message board I can pick and choose who and what I respond too. I get my little 15 minute nerd fix every few days (usually goofing off at work), and I'm good to go. A convention would be a nightmare. The whole situation is frustrating, because there are a few really cool, really intelligent people that handle the fandom experience in a mature, adult way. Everyone else ruins it.

Bay should tell Transfomers fans to go to hell. If we were all like JT, or EC (Spanish for "The Chuxter"), or mabs, or anyone else with half a brain and could actually string words and sentences together in meaningful ways, then yeah, I'd say fandoms out there are a force to be reckoned with. But if that Canadian convention is the best fans have to offer, then forget it. GD, what a buncha losers. I mean, I don't like going off on a rant like this, but sometimes I think dorks need to be reminded of how badly they come across.

Seriously, thanx for posting that link JT. It was enlightening in many ways. Don Murphy basically said in the nicest way possible that a stooge like Bay is a necessary evil when getting a movie like this made. Iíve read his message boards a few times over the last few years, and he keeps driving that point home every chance he gets. Why donít people get it? Without a Bay-like director, the movie doesnít get made. If the robots donít look and move a certain way, the average movie going citizen isnít going to buy into the whole premise, and again, the movie doesnít get made. If they canít use Transformers in a familiar genre (i.e. alien invasion movie), the average movie ticket buyer isnít going to get it, and yet again, the movie doesnít get made. I donít personally agree with any of that, but Iím an idealistic and uncompromising a-hole when it comes to art and corporate philosophy. At the same time though, I totally understand all of it, and donít fault anyone for taking a stupid little property like Transformers in that kind of a direction. The movie either gets made one of a very few ways, or it doesnít get made at all. Iím happy to know that a movie is in fact being made, and that Iíll get to go to theaters to watch it.

El Chuxter
05-24-2007, 11:39 AM
Some cons are better than others. Comic-Con seems, in theory, that it should be the worst of the bunch, but the focus has become so incredibly broad that it's actually the best overall. Sure, there are dweebs who ask dumb questions (like there's this one goofball from San Diego who always asks questions in the Superman or Hasbro panels--j/k, Tycho :p), but there's a better range of folks.

Truthfully, and I realize I run the risk of p***ing some people off, hardcore Transformers fans scare me. I still have most of my sizeable G1 collection, bought all the Classics, collected the majority of the 3" Titaniums and Alternators, know most of the details of the G1 cartoon, have (and know) all the Marvel comics, wallowed through the dreck Dreamwave published, and am only behind on the IDW series because there's no comic shop within 30 miles of me and I'm waiting for the paperback collections. And I don't consider myself a hardcore fan because I can't tell you Starscream's favorite cereal in Armada, or name fifteen Japanese characters, or know the final episode of Headmasters by heart in the original Japanese.

However, I feel that enough tampering has been done with the original premise to hurt the movie overall. I've said before, a film cannot simply be a 100% adaptation of a property. For various time and special effects considerations, it can't be done. But the changes have to be faithful to the original concept. Take X-Men and Catwoman, one of the best comic movies, and one of the worst. Overall, there were probably about the same number of drastic changes to the concepts in both movies. But X-Men retained the heart of what the original comic book great. Catwoman incorporated too many changes to the heart of the idea, resulting in a bad movie that only shared a name with the Batman villainess.

I'm afraid, based on what I'm seeing--and the shared writers--that Transformers will be another Catwoman.

I have to disagree about Bay being a necessary evil. Quite recently, a longtime fanboy with no experience directing films was placed in charge of a superhero movie. The result was TMNT, easily one of the best comic book films ever made. So why would Transformers need a big-name director with no knowledge of, love for, or respect for the concept?

Tycho
05-24-2007, 02:52 PM
Ummm. I was just ummm curious. Well actually, it's a friend of a friend who's asking. And I ummm, don't really know this friend very well. But what is Starscream's favorite breakfast cereal? And is that going to be in the movie?

seanmcfripp
05-24-2007, 03:54 PM
...like there's this one goofball from San Diego who always asks questions in the Superman or Hasbro panels--j/k, Tycho :p

Not j/k, if Tycho gets within 50 miles of Frederick, MD, I'm hiding my daughters and dressing them up like boys.


Truthfully, and I realize I run the risk of p***ing some people off, hardcore Transformers fans scare me.I think Transfans are the worst because you get the worst elements of all genres of nerdom. You get your basic geeks who never grew out of being nine years old, mixed with an unhealthy dose of comic snobs, topped off with a modest helping of all-things-Japanese-are-god, anime butts. And none of them like each other, let alone anyone else. They're worse than hockey fans.


However, I feel that enough tampering has been done with the original premise to hurt the movie overall. I've said before, a film cannot simply be a 100% adaptation of a property. For various time and special effects considerations, it can't be done. But the changes have to be faithful to the original concept. Take X-Men and Catwoman, one of the best comic movies, and one of the worst. Overall, there were probably about the same number of drastic changes to the concepts in both movies. But X-Men retained the heart of what the original comic book great. Catwoman incorporated too many changes to the heart of the idea, resulting in a bad movie that only shared a name with the Batman villainess.See, this is where I wish I'd had a chance to read the script when it was out there floating around. As far as I can tell from some of the plot summaries that have been posted, there's a decent amount of G1-esqe influence in the story. I know the fear is the robots will be used like the alien invaders in ID4 or something (i.e. nameless, underdeveloped baddies), but really, where is that fear coming from? Isn't the movie going to tell us about Cybertron? Isn't the movie going to explain the war between the two factions? Prime and Megatron are still the leaders, right? Wonít Megatron call Starscream a failure at some point in the film and treat like a POS? Isn't the movie basically going to have TF characters that follow their G1 counterparts (i.e. Ratchet's a medic, Jazz is the "cool" earthy guy, etc.)? And for cripes sake, isn't the dynamic between Sam (cooler name than Spike) and Bumblebee going to be pretty much like it was in the Sunbow series? I guess I just don't understand what's missing or whatís been tampered with. With all the *****ing I hear fans do, I'm starting to think it'll be a lot like the X-Men films, where everyone's got their favorite 2nd or 3rd tier character that only gets a few moments of screen time. So the f what? If I never heard another complaint from all the stupid Jazz fans out there (He get's killed? He doesn't have any lines?! Bay sucks!), I'd be one tiny step closer to living the rest of my life a happy man.


I have to disagree about Bay being a necessary evil. Quite recently, a longtime fanboy with no experience directing films was placed in charge of a superhero movie. The result was TMNT, easily one of the best comic book films ever made. So why would Transformers need a big-name director with no knowledge of, love for, or respect for the concept?I haven't seen the new Turtles flick, but I hear it's pretty good. I have to ask though, are the TMNT and Transformers films even in the same league from an investment standpoint? From what I can tell, just going on the movie trailer and toys I've seen, TMNT was put together as family film, with a family film's budget (please correct me if I'm wrong). Transformers was conceived by investors as being a huge summer blockbuster, with the potential to be the number one grossing movie of the year. From what I can also tell (and Don Murphy seems to be saying the same thing over and over again), nobody would touch Transformers unless it was done big, which I'm sure Hasbro had a lot to do with. That in mind, Don Murphy is probably right, there are only four or five big name directors that a big studio would trust to run a huge, huge, financially supported project like Transformers. A movie like this doesn't work if the special effects aren't up to snuff, plain and simple. You canít really get those kinds of special effects in your movie unless you can get sizeable financial backing. Investors always expect some kind of a return on their money, so what do you do? You make the investors happy. Itís a horrible process. You boil everything down to the lowest common denominator and reach for the middle of the Bell curve. From an artistic standpoint, this absolutely, totally sucks, but what the hell are we talking about here? Weíre talking about the GD Transformers for fís sake! Since when is Transformers some kind of high art?

Oh, and one other thing, what is it with TF nerds and Megan Fox? I think Iíve said this before, but Iíll say it again: Sheís just not hot. Sheís not even really passably, averagely hot. Sheís just a regular old, run of the mill, cast-as-a-17-year-old-but-sheís-really-29, dime a dozen, why-does-it-hurt-when-I-pee lookiní bimbos. Funny how the guys who hate on the movie always throw in a stupid line like ďbut at least the chick is hotĒ into the conversation. Dumbasses, thatís exactly why film studios put people like her in movies to begin with.


Ummm. I was just ummm curious. Well actually, it's a friend of a friend who's asking. And I ummm, don't really know this friend very well. But what is Starscream's favorite breakfast cereal? And is that going to be in the movie?
Don't forget to add "If you want this movie to do well, you'll address Starscream's favorite cereal." to the end of that question.

Tycho
05-24-2007, 04:58 PM
BTW: you want this movie to do well, you'll address Starscream's favorite cereal.

I think it would either be Fruit Loops or Cheerios. Here's why:

Remember in the G1 series the Space Bridge that shoots Transformers from earth back to Cybertron? Well Cheerios are round like the Space Bridge. Fruit Loops are colorful like the energon cubes that power it. :crazed:



Not j/k, if Tycho gets within 50 miles of Frederick, MD, I'm hiding my daughters and dressing them up like boys.

Why? Do they look like Megan Fox? She's hot. Even if this movie sucks, at least we'll have Megan Fox to look at.


She’s just a regular old, run of the mill, cast-as-a-17-year-old-but-she’s-really-29, dime a dozen, why-does-it-hurt-when-I-pee lookin’ bimbos.

Oh, that's so Hot! :love:

preacher
05-26-2007, 12:56 PM
I have no beef with the design of the autobots. I can't fathom why more familiar designs couldn't be used for movie. I don't buy the excuse - it would look stupid on Film. I just don't. When the DVD comes out Bay would be doing himself a huge disservice if he didn't show the evolution of the robot design. Only then would I bee convinced. I can clearly see generation 1 optimus, megatron, and starscream in my mind and how they would look on film. Having all the little servos and pistons and junk exposed like that really makes no since. That would be like us walking around with skin on some of our body parts and not on others. If these aliens are supposed to be beating the crap out of each other you don't want your pieces and parts uncovered like that. When was the last time you saw a tank with pieces exposed?
That being said, even with the new robot design you can tell that jazz is jazz, bumblebee is bumblee, ratchet is ratchet, and ironhide is ironhide. Still can't fathom why Bay felt he need ratchet to be a rescue vehicle instead of an ambulance. Or why ironhide is black instead of red.

Sam vs Spike? Okay his name is Sam now. Moving on...

I have a huge problem with the decepticons. Except Brawl, Blackout, and Barricade, the designs suck. Period. They are just too alien looking to pass for any of the decepticon characters. The decepticons are equally important as the autobots and they don't seem to get the respect they deserve. Frenzy is horrible. Reminds me of Goliath in that movie Virus. From what I understand every decepticon in the movie gets killed about as quickly as they make their appearance. if this is true, this doesn't show much imagination on the part of the writers. Its very formulaic. Kind of like grinding through levels of Mortal Kombat. Bumblebee Baricade fight!

Apparently Starscream gives the Autobots a run for their money and Megatron doesn't get but a couple lines in the whole movie. Starscream and Megatron as you have pointed out are the driving force behind the decepticons. But if the rumors are true neither get their do. Megatron looks nothing like megatron. And starscream looks nothing starscream. There are just certain things on these characters you don't muck with. Even all the incarnations of Starscream and Megatron from the various serious of cartoons and CGI series resemble their G1 counterparts. I wouldn't know these movie versions were Megatron and Starscream unless someone pointed it out to me. The essence of these two characters in particular seems to be missing. Megatron is old, very old. He is a seasoned veteran and should look archaic. Starscream is vain, narcistic, and psychotic. He should look more stylized not Doctor Zaius. So what if they interact on the movie. It won't be Megatron and Starscream.

Oh and the whole Megatron and Optimus were pals before Megatron got an itch is lame. Lame, lame, lame.

seanmcfripp
05-29-2007, 12:38 PM
BTW: you want this movie to do well, you'll address Starscream's favorite cereal.

I think it would either be Fruit Loops or Cheerios. Here's why:

Remember in the G1 series the Space Bridge that shoots Transformers from earth back to Cybertron? Well Cheerios are round like the Space Bridge. Fruit Loops are colorful like the energon cubes that power it. :crazed:

Of course now I picture Screamer pulling a Van Halen. "I don't go onstage until someone gets me a brandy snifter full of purple Fruit Loops, and ONLY purple Fruit Loops!"


Why? Do they look like Megan Fox?

Not exactly, they're only 3 years old at the moment. And no, I'm not worried about you hitting on little kids or anything, so don't anyone take the conversation in that direction. I'm paranoid over what's probably going to happen 15 years from now. I seem to remember Tom Leykis having a show on scoping out chicks at a young age, then keeping them in mind for when they turn 18. It was right around the time the Lizzie McGuire Movie came out, he actually said "Go on down to the theater and meet you future trophy wives, they're at the movie right now. Sure, they're only 12 years old, but you can pick 'em out now and leave a business card that says 'Call me in 6 years.'"

Anyway, in other movie discussion, can anyone who's read the script tell me what's going in this picture:

http://www.seibertron.com/movie/fullsize.php?id=35&size=3&image=335

Specifically, what's wrong with BB's legs? Looks like the lower halves are missing, like they've been damaged or something. I'm guessing that's why he's riding on the back of the tow-truck.

Tycho
05-29-2007, 03:25 PM
In case you're wondering why I'm wrting all this (in a Transformers thread? - well it came up here) it is because I'm lonely. But even when I'm with a girl, I'm still lonely. I think you understand.

This is why I don't even think twice about whether I "should" have an interest in Autobots and Decepticons, the Force, etc. What I should do is live for myself while I still have a chance to!


Anyway, in other movie discussion, can anyone who's read the script tell me what's going in this picture:

http://www.seibertron.com/movie/fullsize.php?id=35&size=3&image=335

BumbleBee has been crushed in a Decepticon attack but one of his weapon systems still functions. He has been taken off the priority threat assessment list by the Decepticons because they consider him destroyed or immobilized. Unable to move something as big as a Camaro by herself, Mikaela (Megan Fox) uses a towtruck to pull BumbleBee through the battle to a position where he can fire on the Decepticons (likely Megatron, as it would seem like the most heroic way in which to write significant action for these characters, but I do think there was descriptive of BumbleBee having something to do with the taking down of Brawl (the tank) whom we haven't seen in any of the previews yet (and who was not in the prequel novelization). I don't know if Brawl has stayed in the film. They're using BoneCrusher as a step-up heavy for the Autobots to first defeat before they get to the "boss villains," like in some video game.


Specifically, what's wrong with BB's legs? Looks like the lower halves are missing, like they've been damaged or something. I'm guessing that's why he's riding on the back of the tow-truck.

Exactly. BumbleBee will be the cute sympathetic Autobot throughout this picture (as he was in G1 lore anyway).

First he's introduced wounded, and he cannot talk. Awwwww. :cry:

Then he gets blown apart and needs a towtruck. Booo-hooo. Sob. :cry: :cry:

But he's just like The Little Engine That Could, and he'll do anything to be loyal to Optimus Prime and protect Sam. Awwww. How cute! :pleased:

He's like a puppy. Awwwww.

A 14 foot puppy with plasma rocket launchers....:D

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-29-2007, 06:15 PM
Back on topic folks, that goes for EVERYBODY. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Tycho
05-29-2007, 06:19 PM
Whoops. Droid I'll PM you. I didn't see JMG's post while I was typing what I'm sending you.

EDIT: Droid, I can't PM you or e-mail you per your SSG preference settings. I have you added on MySpace I believe but don't use my friends list there that often that I know what screen name you're going by on MySpace. Please let me know, then JMG can delete this post, too. It's otherwise irrelevant to the Transformers thread.

Or I'll let you know when he contacts me, JMG.

I'm also looking for the text I was trying to send seanmcfripp.

Droid
05-29-2007, 07:44 PM
Tycho, I have set it up so that you can PM me.

JediTricks
06-03-2007, 11:26 PM
Wow. I've never been to a convention before, and seeing something like this is...I don't even know what to say. I mean, I guess you always know that the various fandoms of all these little pop culture things out there are made up of some of the more awkward, socially unadjusted members of society, but jeezus, what is wrong with people? I swear to god, if a nerd convention ever comes anywhere near my town, I'm packing up my family and leaving until it's over. Here's the thing, these Transfans are really low on the fandom totem pole and get far less outlet than SW, Trek, BSG, even Bionicle in some ways which hasn't been around a quarter as long, so they are desperate for their little corner of their TF fandom to get recognized. Plus, TF is really not that well-rounded a community, it's a community based around collecting toys and some cartoons and a few comic books based around that which attract the core audience, again it's not like SW or Trek where there are all these different outlets to draw people in and let them mature, so TF conventions seem to gather only the hardest-core of those Transfans which makes them somewhat more fringe. They're basically good people, and they come to your town and spend money, they just need more of an outlet than 1 small convention a year.


That being said, all I could think the entire time I was watching was, "Poor Don Murphy." Why should anyone in his position have to waste even two minutes of his time answering retarded, rambling, incoherent questions from a buncha whiny, stammering losers? I'd just refuse to do it, flat out. The minute one of them asked how to audition as a voice actor, he should have just walked out. This group of rejects is going to make or break the hype machine for the Transfomers movie? Yeah right, Bay and company'll probably do ok to take their chances.You know what? I think Don handled that stuff very well, and that level of patience has earned me some respect for him, he listened and gave real feedback even on silliness, that's brave. But it also helps them recognize what they have to play to and what challenges they'll have to overcome - from that video I can see the version of TF Murphy speaks of there is a better version than what we'll be getting. And believe me, I had no love for Murphy before this.


Are Star Wars conventions as bad as this one? Do people go up to the mike during these panel discussions and try to talk over the guest speakers? Do the same few alpha dorks keep getting in line over and over again to ask basically the same questions? Do people clap every five minutes? If they do, thank god I've never had the unpleasant experience of going to one of these things. What a total waste of time. At least on a message board I can pick and choose who and what I respond too. I get my little 15 minute nerd fix every few days (usually goofing off at work), and I'm good to go. A convention would be a nightmare. The whole situation is frustrating, because there are a few really cool, really intelligent people that handle the fandom experience in a mature, adult way. Everyone else ruins it. NO! SW conventions are absolutely NOT like this. Even Trek cons aren't, and I've been to some really awful Trek conventions. Sometimes you do get a handful of hardcore geekouts in the Q&A lines, but they're surrounded by cooler heads, this one in the vids was certainly a different balance. Folks clap a lot when something is said in the Q&As though, that is true, it's a way of showing agreement or encouragement. The smaller cons are more geeky too, the more isolated the con, the more fringe it usually is, and someone has suckered an important person into coming and they'll be the entire focus of everybody's attention - good and bad.

Having just been to SW Celebration IV though, I can tell you that even those occasional geekout guys aren't so bad, CIV was amazing and the people were on the whole very very cool, SW seems to bring out a pretty decent crowd to offset the ubergeeks.


Bay should tell Transfomers fans to go to hell. If we were all like JT, or EC (Spanish for "The Chuxter"), or mabs, or anyone else with half a brain and could actually string words and sentences together in meaningful ways, then yeah, I'd say fandoms out there are a force to be reckoned with. But if that Canadian convention is the best fans have to offer, then forget it. GD, what a buncha losers. I mean, I don't like going off on a rant like this, but sometimes I think dorks need to be reminded of how badly they come across.Bay has no right to tell anybody to go to hell, he's a hack and is crapping on even the most basic aspects of the franchise for his own personal reasons. Hell, my mother is bothered by the TF movie and she just remembers Optimus Prime mainly. So Bay's already told Transfans to go to hell, he's done it with the previews of the movie and he's all but said so in interviews - he's a tool.


Seriously, thanx for posting that link JT. It was enlightening in many ways. Don Murphy basically said in the nicest way possible that a stooge like Bay is a necessary evil when getting a movie like this made. Iíve read his message boards a few times over the last few years, and he keeps driving that point home every chance he gets. Why donít people get it? Without a Bay-like director, the movie doesnít get made. If the robots donít look and move a certain way, the average movie going citizen isnít going to buy into the whole premise, and again, the movie doesnít get made. If they canít use Transformers in a familiar genre (i.e. alien invasion movie), the average movie ticket buyer isnít going to get it, and yet again, the movie doesnít get made. I donít personally agree with any of that, but Iím an idealistic and uncompromising a-hole when it comes to art and corporate philosophy. At the same time though, I totally understand all of it, and donít fault anyone for taking a stupid little property like Transformers in that kind of a direction. The movie either gets made one of a very few ways, or it doesnít get made at all. Iím happy to know that a movie is in fact being made, and that Iíll get to go to theaters to watch it.Bay isn't the only director out there, he's just the only one that Dreamworks had just made a movie with and wanted to continue their relationship, he's the one that would get the backing and insurance rates lower. The problem is that Murphy makes movies where he has no problem settling for change because he thinks the audience can accept more and more pap, then he brings the project to Spielberg who treats it like money instead of movie and gets Bay who clearcuts the rest of the remaining qualities. From a business perspective, I kind of understand it (though I argue that it's really short-sighted) but from the "moviemaking" perspective it's unacceptable.

Actually, even from a business perspective, Bay losing all of that money on "The Island" makes him a risk, but by the time they saw The Island fail it was too late. Hell, even Brett Ratner and Paul W.S. Anderson could make a soulless but serviceable TF movie better than Bay, it seems. And Paul WS Anderson is so awful we have to say his name with middle initials so we won't mistake him for anyone else, like the way we speak about serial killers.



Ummm. I was just ummm curious. Well actually, it's a friend of a friend who's asking. And I ummm, don't really know this friend very well. But what is Starscream's favorite breakfast cereal? And is that going to be in the movie?"In issue 23 of the Dreamwave comic, it is revealed that Blackout's central computer resides in his cockpit chest, but in your movie the cockpit will be hollow to hold a real person, so how will you rectify this obvious oversight on your part without completely obliterating the entire characterization of this vital Decepticon?!?" :p



Not j/k, if Tycho gets within 50 miles of Frederick, MD, I'm hiding my daughters and dressing them up like boys.Wise.

I think Transfans are the worst because you get the worst elements of all genres of nerdom. You get your basic geeks who never grew out of being nine years old, mixed with an unhealthy dose of comic snobs, topped off with a modest helping of all-things-Japanese-are-god, anime butts. And none of them like each other, let alone anyone else. They're worse than hockey fans.Yeah, pretty much.


I know the fear is the robots will be used like the alien invaders in ID4 or something (i.e. nameless, underdeveloped baddies), but really, where is that fear coming from?From the script, and from Bay's own mouth.


Isn't the movie basically going to have TF characters that follow their G1 counterparts (i.e. Ratchet's a medic, Jazz is the "cool" earthy guy, etc.)?For the Autobots, yes but all to a lesser degree. For the Decepticons, just Screamer and Megs, everybody else is way out of character.


Transformers was conceived by investors as being a huge summer blockbuster, with the potential to be the number one grossing movie of the year.Not exactly, Bay came into the project to be a summer blockbuster but the budget is lower than the others (hence only 13 bots) in part because he wants to get in on the ground floor of a family franchise (he's said as much).


From what I can also tell (and Don Murphy seems to be saying the same thing over and over again), nobody would touch Transformers unless it was done big, which I'm sure Hasbro had a lot to do with.That's only due to building big robots, in a couple more years the digital effects technology would be cheap enough to do this on a modest studio budget.


Oh, and one other thing, what is it with TF nerds and Megan Fox? I think Iíve said this before, but Iíll say it again: Sheís just not hot. Sheís not even really passably, averagely hot. Sheís just a regular old, run of the mill, cast-as-a-17-year-old-but-sheís-really-29, dime a dozen, why-does-it-hurt-when-I-pee lookiní bimbos. Funny how the guys who hate on the movie always throw in a stupid line like ďbut at least the chick is hotĒ into the conversation. Dumbasses, thatís exactly why film studios put people like her in movies to begin with.I don't get that "ooh, a girl!" mentality either, but she is generically attractive, and she's actually only 20 - which kinda bothers me too, she's got an older look like you pointed out but she's not, like a Miss USA contestant, I don't like that.



I have no beef with the design of the autobots. I can't fathom why more familiar designs couldn't be used for movie. I don't buy the excuse - it would look stupid on Film. I just don't.The reason is A) Bay is selfish and feels since he can't see it working that way, nobody else can; B) Bay wanted the robots to look more alien and look like they could be "real" and that's the only way he can see "real"; and C) Bay wants them to be bigger bots than the classic scale allowed, he wants "giant f***ing robots" first and Transformers dead last. Naturally that means exposed parts and a thousand moving panels, theres a realistic use of a robot's energy. :rolleyes:


That being said, even with the new robot design you can tell that jazz is jazz, bumblebee is bumblee, ratchet is ratchet, and ironhide is ironhide.Hmm, I'm not seeing it. Bee is recognizable only because of his yellow color. Ratchet is recognizable how? Green, Hummer, face 100% different, etc.. Jazz is barely there because the Solstice looks a little like a Porshe and the robot has the hood as chest thing and the visor. And Ironhide... I just bought Ironhide last night: he's not a van, he's not red, he doesn't have a Roman-style helmet-head or a recognizable face, he's essentially a black tangle and looks more like a Decepticon than an Autobot.


Still can't fathom why Bay felt he need ratchet to be a rescue vehicle instead of an ambulance.GMC doesn't make an ambulance, but the Topkick is a truck they want to sell more of.


Megatron looks nothing like megatron. And starscream looks nothing starscream.Starscream at least is a fighter jet, even if he does turn into an insectoid sumo wrestler, but there's no connection on Megs.

To me, it's not about G1 authenticity, it's about trying to capture the essence of these characters, and I don't think the movie designs even try.


Oh and the whole Megatron and Optimus were pals before Megatron got an itch is lame. Lame, lame, lame.It reeks of Hollywood though. The "brothers" aspect was too much for me to stomach, I hope that's been removed by now.

El Chuxter
06-03-2007, 11:40 PM
I don't know if you can say the 'Cons are out of character. The basis appears to be more or less G1, and only Brawl, Skorponok, and Frenzy even exist in that (not counting the two you mentioned).

And does anyone else find Barricade's "To enslave and whatever" logo to be a really p***-poor disguise?

Tycho
06-04-2007, 07:17 AM
Isn't the movie basically going to have TF characters that follow their G1 counterparts (i.e. Ratchet's a medic, Jazz is the "cool" earthy guy, etc.)?


For the Autobots, yes but all to a lesser degree. For the Decepticons, just Screamer and Megs, everybody else is way out of character.

The other Decepticons were never developed characters in the first place:

Frenzy - was a G1 Tape of Soundwave's originally, but he was hardly ever used as Rumble was the favorite.

Scorponok - was a giant Decepticon Headmaster base who was also barely featured I think. Except Metroplex or Fortress Maximus probably through Scorponok (squealing) into the ocean or something - like how they always got rid of Trypticon. But he wasn't developed like a strategizing character in the way Screamer was.

Barricade - is completely new and invented for the movie. He's great for a throw-away character to kill.

Brawl - was originally a Combaticon Tank. Since the movies may never feature combiners as it's too unrealistic (I would think), Brawl will likely and never was likely, to be of any consequence. Swindle was the most developed of any of the original Combaticon characters (Swindle is a tan Army Jeep) but also forming a leg of the combined robot Bruticus, he is shown in G1 lore to resize his Jeep to be on par with a tank. Uh-huh. Brawl, in this movie, is a large threatening Abrams tank. Should he have been renamed? Well at one point they wanted to call him Devastator (which is the name of the joined Constructicons). Demolisher might have worked though.

Blackout - is also a brand new character as far as I know. The Combaticons had a helicopter, Vortex, who was also not really developed as a character. The Autobots had 3 times as many more helicopters actually, Springer being the most important one and a triple-changer at that. But Blackout assumes the Soundwave personality in this film. That does make him cool (and he ejects Scorponok) but I think their biggest worry was having "Vortex" and Brawl in the same movie, would they be suggesting and omitting a combiner, or ruling a combiner's use out in the future. Think about that one while you "Go! Go! PowerRangers!"

Bonecrusher is a mine clearing vehicle and very well designed for the movie battles in my opinion. The original Bonecrusher was a Constructicon bulldozer and part of their Combiner team. I doubt this character survives. He's comparable to Non in Superman II with his use (unless Brawl is used actually worse) - but you know: I'm talking about a character like Boogar in Revenge of the Nerds (because all the nerds who go see this movie are frightened by that sort of archetype like Boogar anyway - they present the same problem for the Autobots of course: how do brains win out over brawn? But the original Constructicon BoneCrusher hardly said anything or established himself either. Scrapper (a steam shovel vehicle) was the Constructicon leader and spoke for their team mostly. Other Constructicons also spoke more because visually, they were more interesting to look at, ironically because of their kibble (like Scavenger with a big digger shovel on his back).

So I think the movie eliminates the possibility of traditional Combiners - Combaticons and Constructicons at least - for maybe the entire franchise "No! No! PowerRangers!" But aside from Megatron and Starscream, no Decepticons were ever traditionally well developed from amongst the ones chosen for this film. I think that was intentional. However, Blackout and Barricade will probably be well appreciated for their brief life on screen. And they are not distorted from traditional appearances as bad as say Ratchet and Ironhide - whom I actually think did turn out cool looking for the most part. But I do not like the faces designed for the Autobots we're currently discussing.

Now of paramount concern to nerds everywhere is what do you think each Autobot would do in a talent show like American Idol? I was eating my breakfast cereal, thinking about whether Starscream would like it (Cheerios) and this idea popped into my head. I should spend about $1,000 to fly across country and book a hotel room in Rhode Island so I can stand in line and ask the experts this all-important new question. :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
06-04-2007, 11:44 AM
Scorponok was unimportant in the cartoons only because he came in at the very end. He was a very important figure in the comics, rising to Decepticon leader... and even becoming a tragic hero of sorts after his human component had a change of heart about conquering the universe. He died defending Cybertron from Unicron, and the last thing he heard was praise from Optimus Prime as he melted into the surface of the planet.

Tycho
06-04-2007, 11:56 AM
Chuxter: you're the man to ask for this.

Can I have a brief non-fictional / fictional history of the comics you profess your love for. I really know nothing about them.

What I found myself being a fan of (while in grade school no less) was the cartoon show which I watched from the first episode when the Ark crashed into the volcano and Teletran-1 repaired all the Transformers into earth modes. Through the 1986 movie, the rise of Rodimus Prime *puke emoticon lacking* and the Return of Optimus Prime.

I saw the Target Masters and Head Masters as an illogical front to my intelligence with liking Transformers, as I didn't think these Cybertronian warriors would care to add symbiotic partners to their beings like that - or so readily and fast either. They are different than Soundwave's relationship to his cassettes you must admit - else Head Masters wouldn't have heads!

So I tuned out right there, pretty disgruntled with the new direction. I also didn't see the feasibility in robotics ever being able to simulate organics so well - thus Beast Wars stuff was ridiculous - as was making Optimus Prime become King Kong and Megatron, Godzilla.

When did Transformers comics begin (in our years)? What versions of the stories were told?

Without confusing me by listing what is NOT good, what IS good?

Is anything they're doing now good as well? (related to the movie or what not?)

I saw the artwork for the prequel comic (to the movie) and I was totally put off by it. My favorite style is like Jan Duursema's Star Wars. I don't like abstract I've found. Furthermore, I don't particularly care for the designs from Michael Bay's movie anyway. I'm just thrilled that one will talk with Peter Cullen's voice. I was cheaply bought off with that.

El Chuxter
06-04-2007, 12:04 PM
Hoo, boy. That's a tall order, but I'll get to it as soon as I can.

Droid
06-04-2007, 02:22 PM
Might want to start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Transformers_comic_book_series

and here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transformers_(Marvel_comic)

El Chuxter
06-06-2007, 07:06 PM
There's an interview with old Crotchface Mulletboy himself at Yahoo! Movies (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808716430/video/2939413/standardformat). If you needed any more proof he's a douchebag and needs to be kicked in the balls repeatedly, watch this. He doesn't even know the damned names of characters in his own frigging movie.

I hate that 'tard.

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 12:46 AM
My favorite part is how he really likes the character that becomes Frenzy, doesn't seem to know why it's called Frenzy but he likes the rest - something which I haven't seen 1 person defend to this date!

figrin bran
06-07-2007, 01:36 AM
Frenzy is even worse than Transmutate and Mr. Bay of Pigs is really something claiming one moment that he listened to the fans only to say that optimus has flames just because HE wanted them. and then there's some mumbo jumbo about making the robots look as if they would in a "real" setting.

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 02:18 AM
I love how he's proud to say of his realism that Optimus Prime has 10,801 parts and all of them are moving and exposed... how is that realistic? What animal has that many exposed moving parts, how is that a reasonable use of their energies? Michael Bay is a doofus.

figrin bran
06-07-2007, 02:31 AM
I love how he's proud to say of his realism that Optimus Prime has 10,801 parts and all of them are moving and exposed... how is that realistic? What animal has that many exposed moving parts, how is that a reasonable use of their energies? Michael Bay is a doofus.

ha, all you would need to do in order to defeat any of his autobots/decepticons is a wrench and a crowbar to jam some of the many moving parts and then they'd overheat to death. or else you could damage as many exposed pieces of machinery that you can. whichever way, it's even easier than taking out battle droids!

Tycho
06-07-2007, 04:48 AM
Michael Bay's interview was mostly respectful in my opinion.

I know when there are times I just want to see him flogged with a Rodimus Prime action figure, but this wasn't one of those times.

Yes, the flames comment was arrogant and selfish. That is exactly why I thought he should be flogged with a Rodimus Prime action figure.

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 06:21 PM
ha, all you would need to do in order to defeat any of his autobots/decepticons is a wrench and a crowbar to jam some of the many moving parts and then they'd overheat to death. or else you could damage as many exposed pieces of machinery that you can. whichever way, it's even easier than taking out battle droids!
Yeah, a wrench into Prime's tiny exposed knee would be a quick take-down, he's also got some exposed chest machinery and arm machinery and even his neck that a crowbar would fit nicely into. They're all like that.

darko666
06-07-2007, 06:27 PM
Transformers theme song Bayified. (http://www.sectorseven.org/OHD2/deceptibot/theme.zip)

he ruined the designs, made the humans the main characters, and now this.

El Chuxter
06-07-2007, 06:31 PM
I heard that earlier, and thought it was too incredibly mediocre to even report here.

Wikipedia has a track listing here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers_-_The_Album). As with all things Wikipedia, take it with a grain of salt. If true, well, the Linkin Park song is already on Minutes to Midnight, so (unless you're a Smashing Pumpkins fan), this looks like horsesnot.

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 08:46 PM
Transformers theme song Bayified. (http://www.sectorseven.org/OHD2/deceptibot/theme.zip)

he ruined the designs, made the humans the main characters, and now this.
Wow, that is really horrendously lame. It's got to be a joke, the vocals alone are so stupid that I can't imagine a big budget film going with that. And Bay may be Hollywood's biggest scumbag, but he usually knows music better than this.

2-1B
06-07-2007, 08:50 PM
It does indeed sound lame but I think that's the real deal, JT.

JediTricks
06-07-2007, 08:52 PM
It does indeed sound lame but I think that's the real deal, JT.
Oh the robo-humanity!!!

2-1B
06-07-2007, 09:07 PM
Wait, what vox did you mean JT ? The synthesized ones ? Those I can't vouch for...but the human vocals (as in, young human male screaming like he's in one of those young punk/alt bands my girlfriends likes such as Good Charlotte or something), then I'm afraid that sounds ABSOLUTELY legit to me. :(

Qui-Long Gone
06-07-2007, 11:33 PM
Transformers theme song Bayified. (http://www.sectorseven.org/OHD2/deceptibot/theme.zip)

he ruined the designs, made the humans the main characters, and now this.

Darko please understand why I'm saying this ;), but I may have to punch you in the face for posting this song....:hurt::(:cry::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad ::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad ::mad: (sometimes there just aren't enough angry smiles).

Seriously if that is the song the terrorists will have won...

Tycho
06-07-2007, 11:59 PM
Ummmm, I'm afraid to post my dissenting opinion here. :eek:

Qui-Long Gone
06-08-2007, 12:08 AM
It's a free country, just don't say anything in support of this theme song version....:upset::D:upset:

figrin bran
06-08-2007, 12:09 AM
It sounds just like Linkin Park. They should've just gotten them to do the song since they're on the soundtrack anyhow.

Tycho, did you actually like it? i thought it was okay until about a minute into the song with the ultra cheesy "optimus prime...bumblebee...ironhide..." and then it just carreened into utter utter carpiness.

Tycho
06-08-2007, 12:14 AM
Tycho, did you actually like it? i thought it was okay until about a minute into the song with the ultra cheesy "optimus prime...bumblebee...ironhide..." and then it just carreened into utter utter carpiness.

I can't answer that or else I'll get flogged with a Rodimus Prime action figure!

But I have been listening to the song over a few times will staring at my Alts and MPs doing battle and thinking this is pretty cool.

Plus I still have this strange desire building in me to purchase the Leader Class Optimus Prime toy. I'm trying to fight it and I predict I'll be successful for at least tonight.

darko666
06-08-2007, 12:15 AM
Darko please understand why I'm saying this ;), but I may have to punch you in the face for posting this song

ha, how about a punch to the stomach? a face punch would only be deserving if:

A: i liked the song
B: i wrote the song
C: i saw this movie

Qui-Long Gone
06-08-2007, 12:56 AM
I can't choose A because I know you don't like the song and it's not fair you were the prisoner of fate who found it...

I can't choose B because the song as written (at least the lyrics from the 80s) is sacred....

I can't choose C because that's downright nasty....

I'll choose D. You can't kill the messenger only the message (unless you're in the movie 300) There...I just punched myself....stars going black....yet I feel better about the song....lights...at.....end...of... tunnnnn...............

figrin bran
06-08-2007, 01:17 AM
I can't answer that or else I'll get flogged with a Rodimus Prime action figure!

But I have been listening to the song over a few times will staring at my Alts and MPs doing battle and thinking this is pretty cool.

Plus I still have this strange desire building in me to purchase the Leader Class Optimus Prime toy. I'm trying to fight it and I predict I'll be successful for at least tonight.

Leader Class Prime is only $40 at Target this week. you have until sat. night should you decide to buy one :p

Linkin Park's "what i've done" is pretty good though.

figrin bran
06-08-2007, 11:42 PM
That TF theme that Tycho posted isn't actually the version on the soundtrack done by Mutemath but rather by "Deceptibot". it's actually better than the soundtrack version if you can imagine.

tformers.com has a link to mutemath's myspace page in case you want to check it out.

JediTricks
06-09-2007, 03:33 AM
Check this out, the company who makes the actual Buffalo vehicle, Force Protection, if you look carefully at the claw in their main pic of the Buffalo, it's sporting a Decepticon logo: http://www.forceprotection.net/models/buffalo/


Wait, what vox did you mean JT ? The synthesized ones ? Those I can't vouch for...but the human vocals (as in, young human male screaming like he's in one of those young punk/alt bands my girlfriends likes such as Good Charlotte or something), then I'm afraid that sounds ABSOLUTELY legit to me. :(All the vocals, both synth-processed and less-so.


Ummmm, I'm afraid to post my dissenting opinion here. :eek:Wow, really? First the Scorponok buy and now this... you are really saddening me, T.


i thought it was okay until about a minute into the song with the ultra cheesy "optimus prime...bumblebee...ironhide..." and then it just carreened into utter utter carpiness.Yeah, that was just plain awful.


That TF theme that Tycho posted isn't actually the version on the soundtrack done by Mutemath but rather by "Deceptibot". it's actually better than the soundtrack version if you can imagine.

tformers.com has a link to mutemath's myspace page in case you want to check it out.http://myspace.com/mutemath
That thing just played for nearly 3 minutes, I thought it was nearly unbearable the entire time. Not as cheesy as the other one here, but in a way worse because it's so flat and wants to be tuned into the now but comes off hollow instead.

El Chuxter
06-09-2007, 08:44 PM
So Stan Bush submitted a song, which wasn't used.

All the members of the Wu-Tang Clan are huge TF fans.

Gnarls Barkley and Warren G have both recorded songs called "Transformer." Not sure about Gnarls Barkley's, but Warren G's samples the original theme.

I'm sure that's the tip of the iceberg.

And instead we get this s***?

El Chuxter
06-09-2007, 09:04 PM
Sorry for double-posting.

I just found a preview of the Goo Goo Dolls's track (http://uk.music.ign.com/articles/794/794823p1.html).

If the soundtrack is any indication, this movie is going to **** goats. (Of course, everything else indicates that as well.)

I am officially not watching this in theaters unless at least three people I trust tell me it's great. I probably won't even see it on DVD, and will wait for HBO. I'm not trying to sound like some embittered fanboy, but the movie really does look like dung, and I'd rather not waste my money on it just because they used the same name as a classic cartoon/comic/toyline.

Qui-Long Gone
06-10-2007, 11:57 AM
Yes El, but how do you really feel? ;););););)

I'm going to see it for two reasons (although your reasons for not seeing it are acceptable):

1. My kid's going to want to see it

2. Cullen as Optimus Prime

Will it tank? Probably....but it will still make $$$. Will the plot anger me? That obvious. Will my daughter think it's the greatest thing in the world? Yes, because she like it when I take her to see movies. Since she's 5 this film will fit her perfect because she'll have no context on which to base my disgust....

2-1B
06-10-2007, 04:53 PM
I am actually looking more forward to seeing this movie now.

First, because I want Don Murphy to succeed after watching those youtube clips, and second because after reading the action figure packages at Target today, I don't think the plot sounds all that horrible. I won't go spoilerish here but now I'm kinda looking forward to it.

El Chuxter
06-10-2007, 05:04 PM
...second because after reading the action figure packages at Target today, I don't think the plot sounds all that horrible. I won't go spoilerish here but now I'm kinda looking forward to it.

Does it make up for the slapstick hilarity of Spike Sam trying to hide the Autobots from his mom while a dog pees on them?

2-1B
06-10-2007, 05:10 PM
I haven't heard about that but the whole "entry mode" concept seemed pretty cool to me...

speaking of embittered fanboys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyziAvLYxZI

lol lol lol

El Chuxter
06-10-2007, 05:39 PM
Screamwave! That's frigging classic!

2-1B
06-10-2007, 06:05 PM
Yeah, then I watched the TF Movie "making of featurette" (real deal, not a spoof) and it reminded me that the Bay impersonator actually did a great impression of him. lol

Tycho
06-10-2007, 06:46 PM
I get tears in my eyes every time I watch Optimus Prime transform and also in the scene where he adds his mouth guard and battle armor to fight Bonecrusher!

I might see this movie so many times. I'll be bawling my eyes out.

I have to hold on to Sunstreaker or Optimus Prime's action figure when I watch the trailer now.

This movie could be the most important thing that happens to me in the course of my life between now and July 4th.

My name is Tycho and I am a candidate for the UberDork Fan Boy President of the United Geeks of America. I approve this message.

Hellboy
06-10-2007, 07:15 PM
I'm no Michael Bay fan but this movie keeps looking better and better the more I see. Granted I'm not a die hard Transformers fan but I did grow up watching the cartoon and collecting the comics so I'm familiar with the material.

Not sure if you guys have seen this scene. I think it aired on MTV. Pretty sick.

Prime Vs. Bonecrusher (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_50cvliazBU)

2-1B
06-10-2007, 08:04 PM
At first I figured this movie would suck but the closer it gets, I'm more like Hellboy. And I didn't even read the comics (but I did watch the overrated cartoon sometimes).

Yeah, pretty crazy clip there !

JediTricks
06-10-2007, 09:28 PM
Sorry for double-posting.

I just found a preview of the Goo Goo Dolls's track (http://uk.music.ign.com/articles/794/794823p1.html).

If the soundtrack is any indication, this movie is going to **** goats. (Of course, everything else indicates that as well.)Oh man, that was horrendously bland. Standard annoying filler, made me want to go listen to a jackhammer at work to drown it out of my brain.


I am actually looking more forward to seeing this movie now.

First, because I want Don Murphy to succeed after watching those youtube clips, and second because after reading the action figure packages at Target today, I don't think the plot sounds all that horrible. I won't go spoilerish here but now I'm kinda looking forward to it.Don Murphy may say the right things, but he needs to DO the right things too, and he's an expert at f'ing that part up - League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is proof, that was his baby.

The packaging bios are not really much to do with the movie.


Oh man, that Spielbay video I didn't think was going to work until 'Bay' started talking about taking away toys from children, that put a smile on my face. Following that with 'Spielberg' saying "I knew Michael Bay was the perfect director for this job" was classic! :D

"Meg-o-tron"!!!

Droid
06-10-2007, 10:14 PM
I get tears in my eyes every time I watch Optimus Prime transform and also in the scene where he adds his mouth guard and battle armor to fight Bonecrusher!

Why would a Transfomer need to put on battle armor? :rolleyes:

El Chuxter
06-10-2007, 11:02 PM
That clip is just a bunch of lemur robots bouncing around. Typical of the other crap we've seen.

(BTW, sorry about the comment I made earlier. It didn't even register exactly how that phrase originated.)

El Chuxter
06-14-2007, 01:54 PM
Every time I think it can't be worse, I see something that proves me wrong yet again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGObFPpMbg

Is there any reason they're just walking around like a bunch of 'tards?

CaptainSolo1138
06-14-2007, 02:02 PM
Every time I think it can't be worse, I see something that proves me wrong yet again.No kidding. Who in their right mind would wear a Strokes shirt?!

El Chuxter
06-14-2007, 02:09 PM
Evidently Spike Sam for however many days this fiasco is supposed to take place over. Ever see him in anything else?

figrin bran
06-14-2007, 10:41 PM
i've seen many people in Strokes t-shirts here in LA.

anyone else playing the Mountain Dew promotion? i've been trying to win the Pepsi Optimus Prime but no success yet.

Tycho
06-15-2007, 05:00 AM
Every time I think it can't be worse, I see something that proves me wrong yet again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGObFPpMbg

Is there any reason they're just walking around like a bunch of 'tards?


I'm not crazy about how Optimus is walking either.

2-1B
06-18-2007, 08:53 PM
Did that yella fella just make a SHHHHH signal with his finger ? :confused:

El Chuxter
06-18-2007, 09:06 PM
Yes, sadly enough.

Sadlier enough, that's supposed to be Bumblebee.

Sadliest enough, he's mute. He got into some bad quesadillas or something.

2-1B
06-18-2007, 09:08 PM
I read about how it "hurts" Bumblebee to talk...reminds me of the Power Droid and 2-1B in Jabba's Dungeon.

El Chuxter
06-18-2007, 11:28 PM
Funny thing, the comics say that Megatron ripped out his voice box. The toys say that some random Decepticon injured him where it hurts him to talk. And early reports of the movie are saying that he loses the ability to speak early in the film in a fight with Barricade.

I see they have the same folks overseeing the continuity that are in charge of the EU.

JediTricks
06-19-2007, 04:26 AM
Every time I think it can't be worse, I see something that proves me wrong yet again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGObFPpMbg

Is there any reason they're just walking around like a bunch of 'tards?Ugh, that is actually even lamer than I imagined when I read about it. Hello: robots in DISGUISE!!! And no neighbor is going to miss that, especially Optimus who is WAY too big in this movie, every step he takes should feel like an earthquake to everyone in a 2-block radius!

And why is the Witwicky family rich enough to have a big back yard and a fountain?

Tycho
06-19-2007, 07:42 AM
Aside from everything else, the thing that bugs me the most about that clip is that it looks like Optimus deliberately steps on the fountain that Sam doesn't want to be damaged (along with the rest of his mother's yard).

And you don't have to be rich to have a house with a backyard and a fountain, but the lower income your household is, the less easily replaceable something like that might be.

Droid
06-19-2007, 10:11 AM
Ugh, that is actually even lamer than I imagined when I read about it.

Don't you remember how much people loved it when Elliott hid E.T. from his mother? Don't you? I mean if it worked in E.T. it has to be gold in a Transformers movie, doesn't it? I think Mr. Spielberg and Mr. Bay know just a bit more about the pat formula you can recycle over and over again to make a blockbuster than you do, don't you?

El Chuxter
06-19-2007, 11:35 AM
Does that mean that Megatron will try to eat Sam in the end, and Brody will blow him up?

2-1B
06-19-2007, 06:33 PM
If this movie is anything like Spielberg's last robot movie, you can be certain I will fall asleep.

(A.I.)

JediTricks
06-20-2007, 10:05 PM
Oh ye of little faith, deservedly so. :p

Tycho, this family has a GIANT back yard and a big fancy fountain and the dad drives a friggin' super-collectible classic British sports car, an Austin Healey 3000, I believe - they're not some middle class household.


BTW, somehow Paramount, Spielberg, and Bay were able to convince the MPAA to revisit their decision of an "R" rating down to a "PG-13"... nice to see money doesn't affect the MPAA. :rolleyes:


And the human leech did a press conference last Saturday where he came off like a real jerkweed: http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5884
I love how he says he's now one of the bigger Transformer fans in the world, and as a director how he's just like James Cameron. :mad: What b*lls he has! And he's never been to suburbia but it's just so fascinating, the perfect place for 40 foot robots to try to hide without using their disguises. Man, I think I'm running out of annoyed smilies to use here.

El Chuxter
06-20-2007, 10:17 PM
Speaking of ratings, why don't they scrap the "G" rating? Their standards are now such that Disney cartoons can't even get G's because of "frightening content" and "fantasy violence."

Tycho
06-20-2007, 10:36 PM
And he's never been to suburbia but it's just so fascinating, the perfect place for 40 foot robots to try to hide without using their disguises. Man, I think I'm running out of annoyed smilies to use here.

OK, well it's time for the Autobots to get some new Alt modes:

Optimus: converts to pizza delivery truck
Ratchet: becomes cable TV van
Ironhide: becomes landscaping utility vehicle complete with hologram of illegal alien
Jazz: becomes sit-down lawnmower

BumbleBee was purchased as a Camaro anyway.

So what's so hard about doing that? ;)

That is how you hide in suburbia. No one thought that Transformers would actually transform? The rescue vehicle and semitruck are a little conspicuous though.

figrin bran
06-20-2007, 10:41 PM
Mr. Bay of Pigs is right on one account - he made the film for "non transformer fans, okay?"

JediTricks
06-20-2007, 10:42 PM
Speaking of ratings, why don't they scrap the "G" rating? Their standards are now such that Disney cartoons can't even get G's because of "frightening content" and "fantasy violence."
It's really weird, if you have a big studio picture, you're almost guaranteed to get a "PG" or "PG-13" film these days, the "G" rating is nearly as dead as the original "X" rating or its replacement, the "NC-17". So there's this narrow band of ratings for big budget films and it almost never is "G" or "R" anymore - you have to actually work hard to get either of them, and it makes no sense at all. Of course, the "G" rating is generally a death knoll for a film, it says "this movie is going to be kiddie trash" because the ratings board is so thick-skulled on the matter that they only pass fluff along. Star Wars was originally going to be a "G" and Lucas knew it'd hurt the film so he beefed up a little violence to get it to "PG". Then there's another issue, the perception that Hollywood is milking violence and horror to entice children into films, these films get an "R" rating and if they have enough power behind them, they're talked down to a "PG" - Indiana Jones & The Temple of Doom is a prime example.

2-1B
06-21-2007, 12:27 AM
"Q: But you gave them lips.
Bay: Well, because, you know we did a lot of facial studies, and emotion is so hard without that kind of movement. We tried it solid, it just didn't look right."

too many other comical points to copy...great link, JT !

Tycho
06-21-2007, 12:32 AM
I was talking to a friend today about my work and if it makes it to film, who is my intended audience?

Myself. That's the most honest answer. I would like to see a movie made of my novel that would appeal to me. If anyone else likes it, than fine.

The same friend discussed director styles and Michael Bay came up as someone who could craft something that would appeal to someone with tastes such as myself. So there you go. Paul Verhoven would actually be my first choice however, due to his fantastic work with Basic Instinct.

However, juvenile antics like Autobots hiding in someone's backyard (when they could at least transform) does not appeal to me. I think Michael Bay will spawn a scene-by-scene analysis by me concerning what I liked and what I didn't like. I think Transformers is the most controversial film we've ever discussed in these forums.

2-1B
06-21-2007, 12:34 AM
yes, even more controversial than Bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 9/11, and The Passion of the Christ.

Tycho
06-21-2007, 12:36 AM
"Q: But you gave them lips.
Bay: Well, because, you know we did a lot of facial studies, and emotion is so hard without that kind of movement. We tried it solid, it just didn't look right."

too many other comical points to copy...great link, JT !

Some of the Transformers always had lips (or edges to their mouths):

Ironhide
BumbleBee (of which Bay's BB does NOT have lips actually)
Ratchet
Jazz
Megatron
Starscream

The rest of the Decepticons are pretty much new characters with several recycles of background extras from G1 (Brawl and whatnot).

So what we're really talking about here is Optimus Prime having lips.

At least he can and does form the mouthguard. Without it, he also looks more like Ultra Magnus, which is slightly consistant anyway.

JediTricks
06-21-2007, 02:12 AM
However, juvenile antics like Autobots hiding in someone's backyard (when they could at least transform) does not appeal to me. I think Michael Bay will spawn a scene-by-scene analysis by me concerning what I liked and what I didn't like. I think Transformers is the most controversial film we've ever discussed in these forums.They could more than Transform, they could step over folks' fences and run away, or walk to the street and transform and park themselves.


Some of the Transformers always had lips (or edges to their mouths):

Ironhide
BumbleBee (of which Bay's BB does NOT have lips actually)
Ratchet
Jazz
Megatron
Starscream

The rest of the Decepticons are pretty much new characters with several recycles of background extras from G1 (Brawl and whatnot).

So what we're really talking about here is Optimus Prime having lips.

At least he can and does form the mouthguard. Without it, he also looks more like Ultra Magnus, which is slightly consistant anyway.None of the bots had lips, they had moving mouths but I don't remember any G1 guys being drawn with lips. The lips look super creepy too.

Tycho
06-21-2007, 02:28 AM
The movie lips might look super creepy, but I'm looking at my Transformers I have here and they have lips - if we're to define lips as meaning the edges of their mouths.

Now I'm not sure that Michael Bay hasn't had robotic Mick Jagger's designed for this film. That's another story (would Steven Tyler be a robotic Mick Jagger's mini-con, btw?) But we'll be seeing how it all works out in about 2 more weeks. Cool deal, huh?

JetsAndHeels
06-21-2007, 10:30 AM
For all the issues this film seems to have, including the director, I am still looking forward to seeing it.
I even hold out some hope it might be good.

Imagine that??

General_Grievous
06-21-2007, 10:44 AM
For all the issues this film seems to have, including the director, I am still looking forward to seeing it.
I even hold out some hope it might be good.

Imagine that??

I've fallen into that camp. At first, I was convinced this movie would suck, but after seeing the last trailer, I started to change my mind. Plus, the advanced screening reviews have been positive for the most part.

Qui-Long Gone
06-21-2007, 11:42 AM
And the human leech did a press conference last Saturday where he came off like a real jerkweed: http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=5884
I love how he says he's now one of the bigger Transformer fans in the world, and as a director how he's just like James Cameron. :mad: What b*lls he has! And he's never been to suburbia but it's just so fascinating, the perfect place for 40 foot robots to try to hide without using their disguises. Man, I think I'm running out of annoyed smilies to use here.

I think the last time I read something that was so self-congratulating (talk about artistic masturbation) it was a copy of some book written by some guy in prison who later organized Germany into the 20th century's deadliest war machine....:pleased:

Droid
06-21-2007, 06:51 PM
Bay: Listen, I make my own movie, I don't have someone tell me what to do.

And it has resulted in so many gems!

So I quickly became probably one of the bigger Transformer fans in the world.

If you define Transformers as whatever he thinks in his head.

So we actually brought him in the room and we just started this whole masturbation talk.

Nothing says Transfomers like an extended scene about masturbation.

Megatron was a gun, and I'm like, "I don't get that,"

Yes, it is VERY hard to wrap your mind around, isn't it?

Bay: When Steven called me a year and a half ago, he said I want you do direct "Transformers," it's a story about a boy who buys his first car.

Steven certainly has his finger on the pulse of Transformers also.

I kept having this image of this kid trying to hide robots from his parents by his house, and that just stuck in my head as we were writing the script, so to me that was the whole charm of it. I don't think I even answered your question.

Yes, if only the robots had some way to disguise themselves. Honestly, I was watching that part of the preview with my wife, who knows nothing about Transformers, and she said, "Why don't they just transform?"

Q: But would you be willing to jump right back in to a sequel?
Bay: Maybe a little break. But, we have to come up with a good story first.

Why didn't they feel the need to come up with a good story this time?

JediTricks
06-21-2007, 09:23 PM
The movie lips might look super creepy, but I'm looking at my Transformers I have here and they have lips - if we're to define lips as meaning the edges of their mouths.Except that's not the definition of lips. Lips are a separate organ at the front of the mouth.


Bay: Listen, I make my own movie, I don't have someone tell me what to do.

And it has resulted in so many gems!

So I quickly became probably one of the bigger Transformer fans in the world.

If you define Transformers as whatever he thinks in his head.

So we actually brought him in the room and we just started this whole masturbation talk.

Nothing says Transfomers like an extended scene about masturbation.

Megatron was a gun, and I'm like, "I don't get that,"

Yes, it is VERY hard to wrap your mind around, isn't it?

Bay: When Steven called me a year and a half ago, he said I want you do direct "Transformers," it's a story about a boy who buys his first car.

Steven certainly has his finger on the pulse of Transformers also.

I kept having this image of this kid trying to hide robots from his parents by his house, and that just stuck in my head as we were writing the script, so to me that was the whole charm of it. I don't think I even answered your question.

Yes, if only the robots had some way to disguise themselves. Honestly, I was watching that part of the preview with my wife, who knows nothing about Transformers, and she said, "Why don't they just transform?"

Q: But would you be willing to jump right back in to a sequel?
Bay: Maybe a little break. But, we have to come up with a good story first.

Why didn't they feel the need to come up with a good story this time?Awesome post!!!

Tycho
06-21-2007, 09:52 PM
That was funny Droid. I vote for you to have an alternate commentary track on the DVD when it comes out. That would be great!

Beast
06-22-2007, 10:45 PM
This is either a desperate attempt to ensure the movie doesn't bomb.

Or the studio wants to see just how much they're willing to tork off the theaters.

Michael Bay's Transformers set to debut on cable Pay-Per-View for $49 on July 3rd

Hollywood obviously believes that, with the theatrical experience becoming so lousy for many people and a lot of individuals enjoying cushy home theater setups, this could be an extremely lucrative new direction. Especially with the high-end price tag.

I'm guessing this will result in an exciting new world of high-quality bootlegs, personally.

Tech site uberpulse.com and movie page chud.com broke the news. Further details are still unavailable right now, but I'm not sure what other details you need.

figrin bran
06-22-2007, 10:55 PM
This is either a desperate attempt to ensure the movie doesn't bomb.

Or the studio wants to see just how much they're willing to tork off the theaters.

it's a hoax!

Beast
06-22-2007, 11:03 PM
it's a hoax!
I somehow doubt it. I can actually see them doing it.

preacher
06-23-2007, 12:31 AM
So Bay was involved in Raiders of the Lost Ark at some point. From what I gather his role was inconsequential.

You notice how in that whole interview he comes across as someone that is on speed? Maybe that would explain some of the decisions he made with this so-called story? So instead of having decepticons that resemble Starscream and Megs we get a long, drawn out scene relating to masturbation? Now there is a legacy to proud of.

Only someone high on crack or speed would actually think its cute to pervert a children's mythology like that. Can you imagine if Anakin and Ben had such discussions? Thank GOD Bay has no involvement with that franchise.

BAY you are such a freaking deusch bag! What is there to "get" about Megatron transforming into a gun! Its make believe jackass! My god why can't these hollywood muckimucks leave things alone? Hey Mikey! Why don't you go play with your train set and rediscover childhood innocence. And if you fail at that do us parents a favor and put your "talents" to filmin a documentary on Monica-gate if you feel so compelled to bring sexuality into what should be a good story and keep it out of view from kids! I don't know if you have kids, but if you do why don't you just go rent some porn and let them watch it while you are at it.

Go back to drinking your bong water you pinhead! It ain't funny. It ain't the least bit cute. Its sick.

2-1B
06-23-2007, 09:48 AM
I never understood how a big robot could transform into a tiny little gun to be held by another robot...it doesn't seem believable even within the TF realm.

General_Grievous
06-23-2007, 11:27 AM
So instead of having decepticons that resemble Starscream and Megs we get a long, drawn out scene relating to masturbation? Now there is a legacy to proud of.



What??!! What's this all about?

preacher
06-23-2007, 01:20 PM
Greivous,

Follow the link to that Bay interiew on shh (superherohype) and you'll be treated to Bay and his the whole masturbation discussion. He very proudly states that he included a whole scene where Sam has the door to his bedroom closed or something and the parents think he is masturbating when in fact he is actually trying to hide Optimus Prime in his backyard or something stupid like that.

Look I'm not a prude okay. I watched American Pie and thought the whole Jim humping the apple pie on the counter was hilarious. The difference is it was an R flick. The masturbation topic is not suitable for younger viewers.

I was like eight years old when the Transformers cartoon first came out. I have children that want very badly to see this runaway train. I don't want Bay educating my kids on the topic of masturbation. Thats my responsibility and when I feel its appropriate I will. It is possible to write an interesting story and not resort to things like this. Toy Story had adult humor but it never crossed this line. Actually to my recollection none of the Pixar flicks have. Bay is so proud of his animated robots he should have taken a page or two from the Pixar studio as far as storytelling goes. Where is the commonsense here? Masturbation? On Transformers?! Come on!

General_Grievous
06-23-2007, 05:10 PM
Here's the masturbation talk from the interview I found:



Originally Posted by Michael Bay

A good example in this scene was when the parents knocked on the door of the bedroom when he's hiding the robots, in the script it said, "Maybe he's mas …," and that was the joke, and that's pretty lame. So we actually brought him in the room and we just started this whole masturbation talk


Eh, it might be funny, but most likely it'll go right over kids' heads.

I also liked this quote from the interview:



Originally Posted by Michael Bay

I don't know, I don't, I don't know. I honestly don't know. I really don't know what I'm doing.


:D

Even though I'm looking forward to the movie now and I'm believing the positive feedback, it doesn't mean I care for Michael Bay. He'll have to do a lot more than this to redeem himself from "Pearl Harbor" and "The Island".

El Chuxter
07-01-2007, 12:42 PM
I plan to watch Transformers on Tuesday!

Man, I can't wait. This movie never gets old. Watching Prime plow through the entire Decepticon army to the tune of "The Touch." Cinematic genius. I always get misty-eyed when he dies, no matter how many times I see it. And Galvatron? Man, that guy kicks some serious butt.

What, you thought I was talking about this remake? Screw that. That sloppy turd looks like HBO fodder at best. Michael Bay made the "giant robot lemurs engaging in weird sex acts" movie he's always wanted to make, and I'm not quite sure why he decided to slap the Transformers name on it. Just Hollywood insanity, I suppose.

Tycho
07-01-2007, 01:41 PM
I've read a lot of positive reviews, Chux. I'm going to try and see it as soon as I can. I didn't plan on going early because I have an old girlfriend with me and I didn't think she wanted to see it - BUT SHE ACTUALLY DOES!

That was unexpected.

So there will be one G1 fan (myself) and one NooB (my lady friend) and we'll see if there are different opinions about it. I have to look into what shows we can go to as I bet everything's sold out for the opening shows now, but you never know. There are a lot of movie theaters.

JetsAndHeels
07-01-2007, 04:32 PM
Got tickets for Tuesday....ready to see it.

El Chuxter
07-01-2007, 06:36 PM
Slightly off subject, but I'm listening to the remastered 1986 soundtrack that just came out. The bonus tracks are awesome. Though I must admit, if it wasn't score for TF:TM, this would be unbearably cheesy synth rock. (It gets a free pass because of the movie. In fact, the movie is so cool, Vince diCola gets promoted to "f***ing awesome!")

preacher
07-01-2007, 08:53 PM
The comic book adapation is in stores now. Normally I don't sneak peak movies by reading the comic first. I like to be surprised. Anymore though its getting tougher and tougher to find good movies. Not to mention very expensive.

The big surprise for me is going to be if this thing doesn't flop like Godzilla. As far as action, oh yeah there seems to be plenty. As far as clever plot twists, not a one. Unless you count the couple scenes where Frenzy makes an appearance. Lets just say its a big plot hole. The dialog between the autonomous robots from the planet cybertron (yeah this is how Sam comes up with Autobots - wow how clever!) and Sam is rediculous. The autonomous robots from the planet cybertron, exception being Optimus have no lines as near as I can tell. And Optimus does not talk like Optimus - not sure how to describe it, but he seems too robot-like.

Call me old fashioned, but I like movies to have a solid story. In that Bay interview the interviewer asks Bay if story is important and he downplays it. Even the first transformer cartoon had a good story. I think signing on a director on that has no appreciation for good story-telling is going to be a big mistake. This Transformer movie will be a huge blockbuster no doubt about it. But its going to be similar to the likes of ID4 and Godzilla. Its going to do well for a couple weeks, but its staying power is going to depend on the fans, and the fans are going to call this thing crap.

Tycho
07-01-2007, 09:25 PM
If it's good, I'm going to see it a few times every week. I saw ROTS 13 times in the theater!

If it's not good, I'll be posting here, complaining about it.

I'll post my initial reaction, but I intend to see it at least twice before I draw any final conclusions.

If I really like it, I'll also keep seeing it until I get sick of it or they take it out of theaters.

I like Optimus Prime and I think he's the greatest!

kool-aid killer
07-02-2007, 03:02 PM
Got my ticket for tonight. Hoping for the best but expecting the worst. On a side note, im expecting next weeks Harry Potter movie (which im also excited about) to kill Transformers buzz after a week assuming the movie doesnt do that on its own.

pbarnard
07-02-2007, 04:54 PM
Saw a review at CNN. Watch it do ok box office wise, than disappear as Harry Potter comes out. It's sad that we have to result to box office to determine the quality of a movie, because the review says this one sucks. Sucks. I missed what Roeper and guest said about it this week. Probably not good considering it was just rated before the premier. At least they let critics screen it, so it's not a total turd before getting on the screen.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/02/review.transformers/index.html

El Chuxter
07-02-2007, 07:16 PM
Ebert liked it, but said it was brainless. Didn't see Roeper and whoever's take on it.

The problem is that all the critics say there's no plot whatsoever, but it's okay since it's based on a toy. Uh, dude, the fact that the cartoon and comic both had good stories and well-developed characters is the reason there's a "Transformers" movie and not a GoBots or Converters movie. In other words, the brainlessness this movie seems to have goes against the spirit of the original far more than any amount of re-designing the characters can.

Qui-Long Gone
07-02-2007, 07:58 PM
GoBots

That's the film Bay should have directed....the poor man's transformers...

figrin bran
07-02-2007, 10:54 PM
BayofPigs' "Starscream" does seem reminiscent of Leader 1 from the Gobots!

Kidhuman
07-02-2007, 11:56 PM
One guy from CNN.com wrote that this movie is 144 minutes of Herbie Goes to war

Beast
07-03-2007, 12:09 AM
One guy from CNN.com wrote that this movie is 144 minutes of Herbie Goes to war
Now that's just silly. There's no Volkswagon Beetle in the movie. Sadly. :(

kool-aid killer
07-03-2007, 12:55 AM
I liked it. Visually i thought it was a fantastic film. The battles were so much more realistic than theyve ever been depicted in cartoon or comics. The Autobots and Decepticons actually beat the crap out of each other, not 20 foot tall robots that cant blast one another if their life depended on it. Granted, some parts didnt make sense to me (i dont want to post any spoilers, but once someone else starts asking questions about parts of the movie i'll drop mine) but overall it was so much better than i thought it would be. I thought its humor was well placed throughout the movie, theres some funny stuff in there. I want to see it again, but Potters coming up next week so i'll probably have to wait a couple of weeks before i do get the chance to.

JediTricks
07-03-2007, 02:39 AM
Now that's just silly. There's no Volkswagon Beetle in the movie. Sadly. :(
Yeah there is, it's sitting right next to the '76 Camaro when Sam goes to scope out the car - total cheesy tease.

A friend of mine saw it in Vegas tonight, said there was a good turnout but not great. This friend of mine, Rick, he's been a fair-weather fan all his life, for him it's G1 cartoon all the way, and with this project he went from being way into it to being skeptical to being outright disgusted (the Optimus mouth debacle) to being drawn back into it by anticipation and trailers. He called me walking out of the theater sounding like someone I had never heard before, lost in thought and almost defeated, he definitely didn't sound like he enjoyed the film. He started with a lot of meandering thoughts about what did work and what didn't, and said he had to keep thinking on it. When I asked him if he would have liked the movie if it wasn't TF, he said maybe but he wouldn't buy it on DVD till it was $7 at WM. Later, he sorta talked himself into liking it a little more and then started tearing it apart at the same time, like both his frustration and enjoyment simultaneously ramped up. Basically, he doesn't know how he feels and is going to see it again to really get it.

General_Grievous
07-03-2007, 03:38 AM
I saw this twice tonight. My friend and I liked it so much that we bought a ticket for the midnight show right after the 8:00 show let out.

Here come the spoilers.....


Well, I have to admit that this movie kicked 100 different types of @$$. This really exceeded my expectations. At first, like many of you, I thought this movie would suck. But then it started to grow on me with the trailers and TV spots, and I sort of changed my mind and started feeling hopeful for the flick. Turns out that it was a blast. This is the definition of summer movie. The action was awesome (was expecting that), and the humor was actually funny (not expecting that...Sam's mom was hilarious). Shia LaBeouf was great in it. As were Jon Voight and John Turturro. Everyone else was pretty good. Bernie Mac's role had some funny lines. Megan Fox was okay in the movie, but since she's smokin' hot, who cares about her acting skills? :p But the real stars of the movie were obviously the Transformers. Just hearing Optimus Prime was awesome. The movie would have been a disaster if Peter Cullen hadn't voiced him. Bumblebee was way cooler as a Camaro than a VW Beetle. Yeah, I said it. Beetles aren't cool. Sue me. Bumblebee is finally given a chance to be a bad@$$. I'm glad Ironhide (one of my favorites) was given a lot of time to shine. But Jazz was greatly underused. He had one funny line ("What's crackin', little b*tches?"), but he wasn't used enough. When he died, I didn't really care. To be honest, the Autobots didn't really seem to care either. All I thought was how awesome Megatron was when he killed him. But even with Agent Smith voicing him, it sounded like Megatron. It almost sounded like it could have been Frank Welker. A lot of the Decepticons were underused. I think Bonecrusher had less than a minute of screentime. Blackout, Scorponok and Frenzy kind of stole the show. I was a bit disappointed that Barricade and Starscream were underused, but they never died, so there's always the sequel. But I did love a lot of the throwbacks to the cartoon. Namely the transforming sounds, "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings", and "One shall stand, one shall fall". Even if you were a hater at first, give this movie a try. You may like it, maybe even love it. I even enjoyed it more than the sequels this summer.

Here's hoping they bring Grimlock in for the sequel! :thumbsup:

kool-aid killer
07-03-2007, 10:07 AM
One of my problems with the movie was how only Barricade, Blackout, Scorponok and Frenzy were depicted as being the only Decepticons on Earth up until the time came for the final battle, in which point their numbers almost double with Bonecrusher, Brawl, and Starscream coming out of nowhere. Some teen in front of me kept spazzing out squealing when something cool would happen on the screen. I thought the dork would need medical attention after it was all said and done. One last thing, there are three little clips shown during the end credits, and they all occur at the start of it. Nothing is shown at the end so you dont have to sit around and wait.

Beast
07-03-2007, 10:20 AM
Yeah there is, it's sitting right next to the '76 Camaro when Sam goes to scope out the car - total cheesy tease.
I know... it just wouldn't fit my complaints if I noted that. ;) :D

Tycho
07-03-2007, 10:28 AM
I loved it. Not that it couldn't have been even a little better. I have to discuss spoilers but since the movie is so new, I'll post invisible from here on until everyone gets a chance to see it. The full audience I saw it with seemed to laugh and applaud quite a lot, really getting into it. Optimus, BumbleBee, and Frenzy were the favorites. Please highlight to read the rest.

Oh and by the way, I'm going to see it again on July 4th and probably many times after that! You have to see this one in the theater!

SPOILERS ARE POSTED: Highlight to read further:



BumbleBee: he was awesome! He was too cool with the way he tried to help Sam and his car dealership scenes were the greatest (slamming the Volkswagon was totally funny.) I wished they'd have shown how he took down Barricade (temporarily) that night he attacked Sam. It did go from day to night rather artificially quick, did it not? That was a mistake.

Jazz: his voice was off from Catman Scrothers' great rendition of the character, but he was totally his G1 personality. However, I was never much of a fan of that and I'm not terribly fascinated with the character. Man did Megatron ever rip him apart though! That was brutal. I wasn't expecting it to be that savage (I knew Jazz died, but still). Optimus Prime holding his two body halfs at the end was disturbing as well. Poor Jazz (on so many levels). His landing on earth and his hiding was cool though.

BoneCrusher - man did he get taken out! He was made out to be quite the threat in the prequel book, but Optimus just took his head off! The audience cheered when that happened and I have to say I did as well.

Devastator (Brawl) - well the name thing is now definitely an issue. I wasn't terribly impressed. He was eye candy and not that great of eye candy at that. Replace him with Godzilla - the same result. I would want a toy, but for the toy's sake, not the movie's representation.

Starscream - blink and you miss him. Almost. His taking out the other F-22's in the air by reverting to robot mode and switching back was cool. He really was wasted as a character this time around. Watch the credits though - you'll see him take off for deep space. I don't know. He was just there. Like Obi-Wan Kenobi was in The Phantom Menace. If you think about it, you remember him. I did not like he and Megatron using English in their singular exchange. Why would they? They're alien robots with their own way of communicating. You can have them talk in English, but as with Barricade, give them a reason.

Frenzy - he was great! He was deadly and funny. Really well-developed. Man was he relentless. I give props to Frenzy. I'm also afraid of my own cell phone now.

Barricade - what happened to him? He was developing pretty interestingly in parts - like when he was after Sam. But then? I liked how he was trying to frighten Sam - very Decepticon of him. The hologram was underutilized though. They could have even paid omage to the T-1000's approach with the character.

Blackout - he was cool! I want a great MP action figure now!

Scorponok - he was awesome! I take it that he's still out there, somewhere. I loved the way he deployed from Blackout and his scenes were really intense. Scorponok was nicely done!

Megatron - he was brutal. The way he was voiced reminded me more of Leonard Nimoy's Galvatron than anything else. It should have been Frank Welker! His voice, his form, some things about him just weren't Megatron. You could argue they WERE Galvatron though. His bargaining with Sam to "Let him live and be [his] pet" was classic Megatron though.

The "One Shall Stand and One Shall Fall" line should have focused on Prime for that scene. Hearing it while Sam was running was throwing it away.

Shia LeBouf as Sam was awesome. He Josh Dumahel, Anthony Anderson, the blonde chick, Voight, most of the human cast were great. The movie had the right amount of balance with them and the Transformers. The Witwicky parents were great! The masturbation joke and the reaction to finding Mikaela in Sam's room was hilarious. Watch the credits for more of Sam's parents. I love Ironhide saying, "They're so annoying. Should I terminate them Prime?"

Speaking of: Ironhide seemed like a poorly written cartoon character. I know the show was originally a cartoon, but I'd call G1 a WELL-WRITTEN cartoon. I also miss Peter Cullen playing him with a more Southern drawl (though in truth, there would be no reason for it unless he crashes in Texas and then gets to California for the redezvous).

By the way: I don't think I heard Prime say: "Autobots: Transform and roll out!"

My theater was digital and the picture was great, but the sound would sometimes misplay and you got sometimes nearly silent center-speaker problems. The audience was riveted by the picture, but there were many groans and rumblings about the audio failings. I'd love to see the movie again just to see it played with better sound.

I couldn't tell if the rock music Michael Bay incorporated was appropriate or not. The orchestra music was well done and the themes sounded great. I don't think the film needed rock music, but I couldn't tell because of my theater's bad sound system. If I hadn't seen the film with a girlfriend, I might have been free to complain to the theater staff after the movie and they would have heard from me. I'm sure they heard from others though. People were ticked off!

My date? I could tell she wasn't interested in this movie from the outset. She said she was going to the ladies' room before the previews started. She got back an hour into the movie, saying she hadn't felt well. I didn't go running after her. She was on her cell phone in the lobby, I'm sure of it. But she played "sick" or "sleepy" during the rest of the movie (I don't know how she could have understood it from the part where she came in at anyway). And so her only reaction was to ask me if I liked it. Girls - I swear. This didn't surprise me at all. And you might think I am callous or show no sympathy. That's right. I'd decided that I was going to enjoy this film and if EMTs had even taken her to a hospital, I'd go visit her after the movie. I wasn't moving! Some guys would say I didn't know how to handle myself on a date. I'd say I've had many more dates and experiences than some other guys. That was not going to fly. I'd have even attended her funeral only after I saw this movie I'd been waiting for 23 years to be made!

I think she was sullen about my priorities, but I got everything I wanted out of my evening and I AM a jerk (or is it really that there is something self-centered and wrong (or ALSO wrong) with ladies and I just don't fall for that crap any more (haven't for years). I'm sure she was 1) talking to some other guy who was paying more attention to her than I was 2) talking to her girlfriends about how unemotionally invested in her I was (this is also embarassing to a girl) and then 3) Guess what? She's staying the night to show me how much more interesting she is. *cough-cough* (Well I hope she doesn't wake up and read over my shoulder, else I'll be in trouble, but it's safe to say I can post almost anonymously here).

As long as we're talking about girls, let's bring up Mikaela (Megan Fox). Her body is THAT hot, but I don't think she's that pretty actually. On my "Kristin Kruek scale" Megan falls short. Her acting was mediocre and her voice kind of annoying. Actually, I've also experienced dating many a girl who I can't stand listening to them talk. Remember how BumbleBee is muted for most of the movie? Girls should come that way as well... The other girl in the film, the blonde "Rachael," had a British accent! :love: She could have narrated the whole movie and I would have liked it.

Speaking of narration: PETER CULLEN!!! It had to be him! That being said, twenty years later his voice is not as clear as it used to be and they subtley electronically enhanced him a little. Some of his dialogue was not "all Prime enough," but it was great hearing him say stuff like "Freedom is the right of all Sentient Beings." OK, without Cullen, this movie would never have flew. I'm so glad he's cast in the next 2 movies as well.

Ratchet: his voice was off from my G1 memories (of course) but he was alright. I don't recall seeing a great focus shot of him alone transforming. As his alt mode looked cool, that would have been sweet. I'd look forward to seeing more Ratchet in the next movie.

Transformations: these were tight and awesome for sure. I think BumbleBee and BoneCrusher had the best transformations, but Starscream was up there! (You've seen Starscream in the previews). Oh - Frenzy was cool for sure.

The Transformation noise: my theater's sound system was bad. I think I heard it, but I can't be sure. If it was there, Michael Bay downplayed it anyway. It was more realistic that way perhaps, but I'm nostalgic.

Darn it though! I want to see this movie again, but seeing as I'll have company for the greater part of the day, I think I'll have to wait until the 4th (during the day then). Hopefully I'll have my Autobot shirt to wear to the movie then.

Oh, the Decepticons - we really need the second movie to do more with them. How come the Spider-Man movies can so well develop the villains? Here they were blindly, fanatically devoted to Megatron if nothing else, and the opportunity to make Starscream into an awesome character was totally wasted. That I was let down by. And NO: adding Soundwave would not have made the movie any better. Scrapper said it best in 1986: "uncharismatic bore!" The way to do the Decepticons best is Starscream and Megatron. The latter was alright, but he was frozen half the film. Starscream should have been developed more! Was Michael Bay or even Roberto Orci watching the cartoons or the 1986 movie? I'm sure they'd seen it to get Jazz's character right, so why not Starscream's? Scorponok showed more personality. Megatron and Starscream had 1 (one) (a single) line of dialogue between them showing their mutual contempt for one another. Dude, that had been a selling point of the cartoon!

I'd say this was a 6-7 / 10 for a movie, but definitely worth repeat viewings. Sam Witwicky's role in all of this, and of his parents, etc., Rachael and Glenn's (Anthonty Anderson), make this a fun film to watch over and over again. As a G1 fan, I wanted some more which I didn't get, but I have hopes for the sequel. It should have been a 10/10 where you're hoping a second movie would get a 12/10 or something off the scale. Now I'm just hoping it will be on par with what it should have been.

The movie was not a disaster however - not by a long shot. And I give props to Michael Bay and Roberto Orci - just not as many as they could have had.

I'd definitely see this one in the theaters though, guys!

Finish highlighting to read above.

figrin bran
07-03-2007, 11:56 AM
Your spoilers aren't invisible at all Tycho! How many times does JT have to tell you how to do it? :p

El Chuxter
07-03-2007, 12:10 PM
I thought about watching this last night, but thought a new Hell's Kitchen would be far more rewarding, so I didn't.

So, three of the best characters are barely in it, a fourth has gone from high-ranking sub-commander to a mindless drone of a made-up character, and a fifth gets his chance to be a bad***, even though his not being a bad*** was sort of the whole point of the character?

Man, in retrospect, I'm glad Grimlock wasn't in this. He would've ben voiced by Ellen Degeneres and transformed into an umbrella.

mabudonicus
07-03-2007, 12:38 PM
Yeah, I'm NOT trying to rip on anyone who's posted their thoughts on the film, but I can't seem to match the "facts" with "good"- same as Chux said- from the positive reviews here, I get the impression that the Transformers are almost not even IN the movie, but that somehow it was so good that the lack of the titular characters doesn't hurt the film any- REALLY confusing to me.

And funny call on the GoBots- damn I WISH Corman or someone like him pulled a "Carnosaur" on this one and slapped together their own "transforming stuff" film to go against this one- for all the pathetic-ness that was the GoBots, I would honestly get excited if such a project were announced
:beard: Iso & Baws

Cappy likes to change his status on facebook fairly often

El Chuxter
07-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Amen, ducks.

Sadly, though, there can't be a GoBots movie, as the property is now owned by Hasbro and all names are considered Transformers. The old toys and shows are still separate, but even the name Leader-One has popped up in one of the post-Beast Wars wastes of time and plastic series. (I'm not making this up.)

And I wish everyone would drop the "damn, Mikaela is hawt" shtick. Jesus Christ! I like looking at pretty girls, but, ****, a pretty girl or two don't save a sack of crap. And I don't recall everyone running around saying, "Damn, Carly is hot!" or "Arcee has nice boobs!" or even "I wish I knew a girl who wore electrical tape like Circuit Breaker!" Go buy a Playboy or rent a blue movie if that's your main concern. Humans should be a secondary concern in the TF universe. Unless they're Spike, Sparkplug, Buster, Verity, or any of the NeoKnights.

General_Grievous
07-03-2007, 03:22 PM
Some highlighting to follow:



By the way: I don't think I heard Prime say: "Autobots: Transform and roll out!"
He said "Autobots, roll out" at the dam.

The other girl in the film, the blonde "Rachael," had a British accent! :love:

Australian. ;)

So Chux, I take it you're still boycotting the movie, or do you plan to see it eventually?

El Chuxter
07-03-2007, 03:26 PM
Not so much a boycott as a desire to save $16 until I get positive reviews from people who's opinions on movies I know very well. Even when (and if) that happens, it would be with a full shaker of salt. I am sick of "dumb" movies. I want a plot, I want acting, I want character development, and I don't care if the movie is about courtesans in 17th century France or giant robots from Cybertron--I'm tired of wasting money on movies that are visually impressive but have nothing under the hood to make them memorable.

$16 is a lot of Spaghetti-O's.

Beast
07-03-2007, 04:21 PM
I just got back from seeing it. And while El Chuxter may hunt me down to beat some sense into me, I have to say that I enjoyed it. No, it's definatly not G1. Yes, there's some silly stuff in the film. But as a whole, it was an enjoyable popcorn movie that retained enough of the G1 elements to not make me want to throw theater seats at the screen. It's fairly long though, longer than I expected. But it satisfies as mindless fun entertainment.

Hasbro needs to make a Frenzy figure though. Love that lil bastage. :D

JediTricks
07-03-2007, 04:37 PM
Your spoilers aren't invisible at all Tycho! How many times does JT have to tell you how to do it? :pIt works in a few browsers I think, it works in the preview window too, he forgot the quotation marks around the "f0eded" is all, I fixed it.

seanmcfripp
07-03-2007, 04:55 PM
Not so much a boycott as a desire to save $16 until I get positive reviews from people who's opinions on movies I know very well. Even when (and if) that happens, it would be with a full shaker of salt.

Based on discussions and opinions expressed over the last few months in this thread, I think it's safe to say that you and anyone else who's been down on the movie since day one are not going to like it. If you didn't like what you saw in the script, concept art, trailers, etc., then you're probably not going to feel much different after seeing the finished product in a theater. You'll find plenty of excuses to rip Bay, the actors, and the special effects (not that I personally found fault in any of those things at all). Too bad really, because the film's a good representation of the Transformers universe and very fun to watch.

I don't know if you trust Roger Ebert, but his review was spot on if you ask me. If I had to write a review, it'd probably end up sounding a lot like his. I also trust Desson Thomson's opinions, and he wrote a quick little blurb in the Washington Post that says pretty much the same thing as Ebert's review.

I personally can't wait for JT to weigh in.

Tycho
07-03-2007, 05:45 PM
Hasbro needs to make a Frenzy figure though. Love that lil bastage. :D

Yes. Frenzy was a lot of fun!

Dominic Guglieme
07-03-2007, 07:08 PM
Transformers: Robots in Disgrace

Warning: Spoilers ahead. If you do not want them, stop now.

To bastardize a quote from Winston Churchill, never before in the history of cinema has a movie promised so much, so loudly, and delivered so little. I went into this movie primed (pun-incidental) for the worst, and was not disappointed. One of the common complaints about a Bay movie is the quick cutting between scenes. That tendency was on display enough in this movie. But, I usually forgive stylistic quibbles along those lines. There really is little enough I despise more than a review that bases itself on shallow minutia. I am prosaic enough in my tastes, and if a movie can master the basics of narrative without insulting my intelligence, I walk away content, if not happy. If a movie manages to demonstrate some understanding of a basic concept, even better. If the writer/editor has something intelligent to say, fantastic.

"Transformers" fails at even the basics. That is pretty impressive, considering that the movie not only seems to be spliced together (at times out of sequence) from several different takes, but also from several different genres. Along with lines and scenes that I could only make sense of based on having read the script, (mostly involving the analyst plot thread), a viewer is assailed with chunks of movies from (the worst parts of) several different genres. There was the high-school flick, the "male insecurity compensator" action movie, elements for the low-brow sci-fi/horror genre, and that staple of summer, the trash comedy.

In the old "Transformers" comics and cartoons, there were "special team" of 'bots that could combine to form a larger 'bot. The combined 'bot was usually less than stable, and incoherent. Such is the Franken-plot of this cinematic atrocity. For all the visual splendor of this movie, and some objectively good acting on the part of both primary and secondary players, this movies fails at delivering a cohesive narrative.

The biggest recurring problem is common to action movies, convenient vulnerability. Several Decepticons simply seem to die when the need to, as the movie's clock runs down. (One of them, a small close-combat specialist, is killed by precisely the type of injury that he easily shakes off earlier in the movie.) Despite there being absolutely no logical reason for it, and on screen evidence against it, the Transformers are shown to have a weakness for extreme temperatures.

There is plenty of contrived and convenient stupidity from characters who should be more competent. But, the most egregious example is that of the humans at the end. The McGuffin for the movie is shown (and recognized by all characters) to have a dangerous effect on human built machinery. While trying to hide said McGuffin from the Decepticons, the heroes decide to transport it through a densely populated (and technologically current) city. Similarly, Megatron not only has a conveniently exposed weak spot, but he leaves it avoidably open during the last fight. It is not quite the type of thing you would get in a video game, but it comes real close.

Along similar lines, a key part of the plot is implausible, even in the context of the movie's expected "disbelief suspension". Despite being incredibly versatile, and having a demonstrated ability to project sound, one character is shown to be unable to speak, until miraculously healing at the end.

Finally, there are many hanging plot threads, but the biggest knot of them can be found at the end. During the last battle, dozens of machines spring to a kind of raged life. There is nothing said about this. Maybe this is deliberate, to leave fodder for a sequel. But, is just comes off as sloppiness.

That being said, the movie is not a total train(bot) wreck. The visuals and character designs are gorgeous. And, there is even one scene that manages, however briefly, to evoke the sense of wonder this movie should have had throughout.

The editing process paid off for this movie, as some of the more insulting scenes were shortened or even removed. Of course, had I not read material based on earlier drafts, along with an earlier draft of the script, I would not have recognized how much editing actually went into the final product. A shabby result in deed.

Grade: F An insult to both the hobby and the audience. Bay is a cancerous tumor on creative life in this country.

General_Grievous
07-03-2007, 09:18 PM
Transformers: Robots in Disgrace

Warning: Spoilers ahead. If you do not want them, stop now.

To bastardize a quote from Winston Churchill, never before in the history of cinema has a movie promised so much, so loudly, and delivered so little. I went into this movie primed (pun-incidental) for the worst, and was not disappointed. One of the common complaints about a Bay movie is the quick cutting between scenes. That tendency was on display enough in this movie. But, I usually forgive stylistic quibbles along those lines. There really is little enough I despise more than a review that bases itself on shallow minutia. I am prosaic enough in my tastes, and if a movie can master the basics of narrative without insulting my intelligence, I walk away content, if not happy. If a movie manages to demonstrate some understanding of a basic concept, even better. If the writer/editor has something intelligent to say, fantastic.

"Transformers" fails at even the basics. That is pretty impressive, considering that the movie not only seems to be spliced together (at times out of sequence) from several different takes, but also from several different genres. Along with lines and scenes that I could only make sense of based on having read the script, (mostly involving the analyst plot thread), a viewer is assailed with chunks of movies from (the worst parts of) several different genres. There was the high-school flick, the "male insecurity compensator" action movie, elements for the low-brow sci-fi/horror genre, and that staple of summer, the trash comedy.

In the old "Transformers" comics and cartoons, there were "special team" of 'bots that could combine to form a larger 'bot. The combined 'bot was usually less than stable, and incoherent. Such is the Franken-plot of this cinematic atrocity. For all the visual splendor of this movie, and some objectively good acting on the part of both primary and secondary players, this movies fails at delivering a cohesive narrative.

The biggest recurring problem is common to action movies, convenient vulnerability. Several Decepticons simply seem to die when the need to, as the movie's clock runs down. (One of them, a small close-combat specialist, is killed by precisely the type of injury that he easily shakes off earlier in the movie.) Despite there being absolutely no logical reason for it, and on screen evidence against it, the Transformers are shown to have a weakness for extreme temperatures.

There is plenty of contrived and convenient stupidity from characters who should be more competent. But, the most egregious example is that of the humans at the end. The McGuffin for the movie is shown (and recognized by all characters) to have a dangerous effect on human built machinery. While trying to hide said McGuffin from the Decepticons, the heroes decide to transport it through a densely populated (and technologically current) city. Similarly, Megatron not only has a conveniently exposed weak spot, but he leaves it avoidably open during the last fight. It is not quite the type of thing you would get in a video game, but it comes real close.

Along similar lines, a key part of the plot is implausible, even in the context of the movie's expected "disbelief suspension". Despite being incredibly versatile, and having a demonstrated ability to project sound, one character is shown to be unable to speak, until miraculously healing at the end.

Finally, there are many hanging plot threads, but the biggest knot of them can be found at the end. During the last battle, dozens of machines spring to a kind of raged life. There is nothing said about this. Maybe this is deliberate, to leave fodder for a sequel. But, is just comes off as sloppiness.

That being said, the movie is not a total train(bot) wreck. The visuals and character designs are gorgeous. And, there is even one scene that manages, however briefly, to evoke the sense of wonder this movie should have had throughout.

The editing process paid off for this movie, as some of the more insulting scenes were shortened or even removed. Of course, had I not read material based on earlier drafts, along with an earlier draft of the script, I would not have recognized how much editing actually went into the final product. A shabby result in deed.

Grade: F An insult to both the hobby and the audience. Bay is a cancerous tumor on creative life in this country.

Seems to me that you went in there expecting Oscar-caliber acting and story. This movie delivered a lot. I went in there ready to see giant robots beating the crap out of each other in amazing action backdrops, and that's exactly what I got out of it. Sorry to hear you were so extremely disappointed.

JetsAndHeels
07-03-2007, 09:39 PM
I'm dissappointed bc I was going to see it today but didn't get to.

I will have to give it another go tomorrow.
I am excited about it though.

El Chuxter
07-04-2007, 12:25 AM
Eh, I guess now I'm branded aTransformers movie hater as much as I am an EU hater. :)

For the record, I never had a problem with the Tumbler, and have no problem with the Bat-Pod. :p

preacher
07-04-2007, 01:18 AM
Havn't seen it yet. Plan to tomorrow. Only reason I am seeing it is really because it has that Godzilla, ID4, all-bay-movies brainless vibe to it. Curiousity killed the cat. It will be interesting to see what sort of underlying message this so-called story is going to have.

Off topic. I watched Lost World this weekend and kind of enjoyed it this time. So getting entertained by Transformers is a possibility.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-04-2007, 01:42 AM
Just got back and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED IT. Two and a half hours of pure fantastical over the top Transformers action!! And a lot of intentional humor too; who knew Bumblebee was such a ladies man?!?! :crazed: I'm not a Transformers fanboy by any means (I was born in 82 and kinda missed it; i grew up on TMNT) so I don't have any pre concieved notions as to what I think should be on the screen. Aside from being a tad on the long side, I loved the hell out of this film and it's easily the best action film of the summer. GREAT flick. :thumbsup:

Beast
07-04-2007, 02:03 AM
Just got back and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED IT. Two and a half hours of pure fantastical over the top Transformers action!! And a lot of intentional humor too; who knew Bumblebee was such a ladies man?!?! :crazed: I'm not a Transformers fanboy by any means (I was born in 82 and kinda missed it; i grew up on TMNT) so I don't have any pre concieved notions as to what I think should be on the screen. Aside from being a tad on the long side, I loved the hell out of this film and it's easily the best action film of the summer. GREAT flick. :thumbsup:
Glad I wasn't the only one who really enjoyed it. :D

I wasn't huge on Transformers as a kid either.

I had a couple... almost got Megatron, but went with the Constructicons instead. :D

Tycho
07-04-2007, 03:01 AM
Most of my post I made invisible, so I just need to re-emphasize how much I loved this movie as well!

I'm going to see it again tomorrow I hope.

I am of those years where I was totally into Transformers. Besides Star Trek, it was the only thing (maybe an exception made for Voltron) that I was really into besides Star Wars.

(Unless you count The A-Team - they did have action figures and vehicle toys).

But Optimus Prime is the ultimate hero!

JediTricks
07-04-2007, 05:05 AM
This movie was actually worse than I expected, I walked out feeling empty about it, like it was literally just a waste of my time, money, and effort to bother seeing it - I didn't hate it, I didn't pity it, I just didn't like it in any way. It was incompetent as a Transformers movie and just as inept as a movie-movie. The entire first act is needless, slow, and disposed of by the next 2 acts. There are so many plot holes it's shameless, I won't even bother mentioning them at this point. This is so much NOT what Transformers is about that you literally could have taken them out of the story altogether, inserted any generic alien or alien robot, and it would have changed virtually nothing - and STILL would have been a badly-paced, poorly-edited, sloppily-told piece of junk. The robots in motion were just as bad as I feared, very piecey and hollow CGI, and when they did an action scene it looked like an incomprehensible tangle of parts. And ultimately, the script fails every character - robot or human - in every manner possible at one point or another. There's this one line towards the end of the film where Josh Duhamel's character tells Sam that he has to be brave and be a soldier, it was done in a very serious tone but the audience laughed in incredulity at such pap being spewed. Bottom line, this is a dreadful turn of events for Transformers, and easily Michael Bay's worst film in general (and that's REALLY saying something).

And what REALLY amazes me is when I hear from or read reviews from those select few folks who say it's pretty bad and etc. etc. yet somehow they give it a 7 out of 10 for no apparent reason at all, and even admit to applauding briefly at the end of the flick - like they've become so brainwashed by the Hollywood studio hype machine that they can no longer tell when they don't like something, that even "not really good enough" in their minds is somehow "good" when asked for a public opinion. (Keep in mind, I'm not saying everybody who likes the film is in that boat, I'm only talking about a specific type of reviewer.)

JediTricks
07-04-2007, 05:24 AM
Vern on AICN posted the following review, it's R-rated so I'm censoring it and posting here. There are a lot of really solid points he makes here that do indeed make me question the response the film is getting from the general moviegoing public. Anyway, his AICN review:


Vern vs. TRANSFORMERS - One shall stand and one shall fall...
Three words for you about TRANSFORMERS: Ho. Lee. ****. Not as in "Holy ****, I was blown away, it was a blast as well as AWESOME!" but as in "Holy ****, society really is on the brink of collapse."

Usually if a movie is already playing in theaters I don't send my review here, I just use it at my geocities.com/outlawvern sight, but jesus, SOMEBODY had to say something. I can't believe how many positive reviews I have read of this. I think Harry's was the only negative I saw, but he was polite about it. I read Moriarty's review before the screening and I thought wow, what if I actually like this movie? Like me, Moriarty hates Michael Bay's movies from head to toe, style and content, and me and him agree on all kinds of stuff. I don't remember too many cases where I thought he was being too easy on a movie, at least not a big one like this (only one that comes to mind is the much smaller DAREDEVIL). I never thought I would like this movie until I read his review. He had me about 80% convinced that it would surprise me and win me over, like LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD did. And I might have to seek counseling after enjoying those two movies in a row, but that's life.

I've mentioned a few times before that I have a buddy who loves Michael Bay. But before you rush to judgment, let me say that he's not some stereotype that just loves to see things explode and hear black guys joke about being "negroes" while a camera rotates around them. This is a smart guy with varied tastes. He gives me tips on older action movies I haven't seen, but his favorite movie so far this year is some documentary I never heard of. He watches more movies than I do, and is much more fickle than I am. I could not possibly list how many movies I thought were good, or at least okay, that he out and out despised. But still, somehow, he loves that ****ing Michael Bay garbage, especially ARMAGEDDON and BAD BOYS 2. He describes BAD BOYS 2 as "the most hateful movie ever made" and always mentions how Bay's directing credit is over a shot of a burning cross. So his enjoyment seems like kind of a rebellious **** you to the world, like a kid listening to punk rock or stabbing his grandparents in their sleep. He's been excited about this movie all year, and I've been shaking my head and grumbling about it. I definitely wanted to see it out of morbid curiosity, but felt it would be morally wrong to pay for it. I paid to see GHOST RIDER because I thought it would be funny, and I still feel guilty about it.

So when my buddy invited me to a free screening of TRANSFORMERS I couldn't resist. He said we had to have the area's biggest pro and anti Michael Bay forces together at the same screening. Sounds like a fitting sequel to my peace initiative from last summer where I watched BAD BOYS 2 and TRANSFORMERS THE MOVIE to set a positive example for the Israelis and Palestinians.

So it's fitting that the movie begins in "QATAR - THE MIDDLE EAST." (Need to establish location and tell the audience you think they're idiots at the same time? Try subtitles!) An American army base is attacked by a big robot. These guys are apparently trained in a similar manner to the soldiers from THE HILLS HAVE EYES REMAKE 2, because they all just run away and don't fight. When you see all the military hardware fetishistically on display it seems kind of weird, because the robot doesn't look like it has a chance. But then some tanks fly through the air and you find out later that all but the handful of main characters were killed and nobody knew it was a robot that did it.

At this point I was trying. I secured my brain safely in a locker at the Greyhound station like you're supposed to and I attempted to lower my standards. I am a guy who enjoys Brian Bosworth movies so why not enjoy this ****? Plus, if I'm gonna watch a Michael Bay movie again it might as well be one about robots. They won't joke as much as Martin Lawrence and they'll either look cool or funny. At least the effects are in good hands. And ever since I heard Michael Bay was hired for this job I thought it was tailor made for him. The dude is obsessed with sports cars and has never felt a human emotion, how could you do better than hiring him to make a huge expensive movie where the main characters are cars? It's like God made up The Transformers just to get some use out of Michael Bay.

But Michael Bay told God to **** off, and he went and made a movie about people. After that opening attack you get literally an hour of kiddie movie horse **** about Shia LeBeouf being a nerd and trying to hit on the adult car mechanic Maxim cover girl with a troubled past from his high school. He buys an old yellow Camaro which turns out to actually be a robot from space in disguise. I don't know if I need to explain this to you guys, but Transformers are robots from space and you know those Cirque Du Soleil type weirdos in the car commercial who contort themselves into the shape of a car? It's like that, they crash land on earth and are worried people will make fun of them so they pretend to be cars and planes and **** to fit in. Anyway, for the first hour of this movie his car is alive but mostly is not a robot, he just causes a ruckus by driving around doing donuts and playing funny songs on his radio.

I have learned while this movie was being made that many grown adults grew up on this toy cartoon and hold its characters and concepts deep in their hearts, and were concerned about their portrayal in the movie. And I myself revere the filmatic language, and was worried that I would get dizzy and confused by Michael Bay's double-flip-off approach to editing and camera movement. Well let me tell you, he probaly blows it on both counts, but both are entirely irrelevant. By the time the movie gets to a second robot or action scene it's already way too late to turn things around. This painful first hour shows that the movie's main problem is the same one as BAD BOYS 2: constant, embarrassingly unfunny jokes. Is it too difficult to take anything seriously anymore? Everything's gotta be wacky: Shia has a little dog with a cast and he feeds it painkillers. He rides a pink girls' bike and crashes in front of the girl he likes. A robot pulls his pants down so he's in his boxers. Anthony Anderson eats a bunch of donuts. Bernie Mac's mom flips him the bird. A fat guy dances. When robots attack later, there are lots of half-assed "jokes" about little kids saying "cool!" or comparing it to ARMAGEDDON or thinking a robot is the tooth fairy. The "jokes" are more rapid-fire than a DTV Leslie Nielsen movie, and with an equal or lesser success rate. Even in that opening robot attack they don't have the discipline to take it seriously for 60 ****in seconds, they have to have the guy from TURISTAS who looks like Johnny Knoxville on the phone arguing with a cartoonish Indian operator (ooh, topical) while Tyrese keeps yelling something about his left *** cheek. The music sounds like John Carpenter or TERMINATOR but the composer seems to be the only one making any effort to create drama. Everybody else is assuming the effects people will put that in later.

For a movie produced by Spielberg it's surprisingly low on awe. People are supposed to be surprised to see robots, but they always turn it into jokes. There's not one second in the movie where you believe people are really reacting to seeing robots. In JURASSIC PARK or in WAR OF THE WORLDS or many other Spielberg movies, you believed these people really were having their minds blown by what was standing right in front of them. In TRANSFORMERS they say things like "It's a robot. You know, like a super advanced robot. It's probably Japanese," and you're supposed to laugh.

And half the time nobody even notices the robots. I should mention there is one other robot in this part of the movie, a little bad guy robot who makes wacky troll noises while hacking into the Pentagon computer. I think he's supposed to be the cute comic relief character, a bad idea since there is no drama or tension to relieve. He crawls around, over and through hundreds of humans waving his many limbs all over and making loud grunts and power tool noises without ever once being detected. Either these robots are invisible or the people in charge of our national security are even more incompetent than anyone ever imagined.

So you got this hour of waiting for it to get to the *** damn robots, and then when it happens you realize you don't like them that much more than the people. Admittedly, they are the one thing that makes this more watchable than the other Michael Bay movies. From the ones I've seen I think this is his worst movie, but it's bad in a more fascinating way, like a $200 million version of that tv show "Power Rangers." After a good hour fifteen of failed jokes, the probably-meant-to-be-serious introduction of the good guy Transformers is finally laugh out loud hilarious. They just look so ****ing silly posing and saying their names and they talk in voices just like the old cartoons, so it almost seems like one of those meta-ironical type movies like FAT ALBERT or THE BRADY BUNCH where TV characters come to life in the "real" world to show how goofy they are. And this is one of the great "did I really just see that?" moments when one of the robots says something along the lines of "Yo yo yo wussssUUUUUUPPPP Autobots REPRESENT!" and I don't think he was eating robotic chicken or watermelon but I swear to you on my mother's grave that he started breakdancing. And I'm sure black stereotype robot was in other parts of the movie but the next time I was sure it was the same character was at the end when Optimus Prime was casually holding his broken-in-half corpse like it was the pieces of a plate he dropped.

But before it gets to the fighting, buckle up for a whole lot more "comedy." There's a section, probaly originally planned as a sitcom pilot but then used as part of the movie, where the robots hide in Shia's backyard. They break things and say "funny" lines and try not to be spotted when Shia's parents look out the window. This seems to support the "Transformers are invisible" theory because they're ****ing 50 feet tall and shaking the earth with every step but nobody sees them. In fact, they might be like the Velveteen Rabbit or whatever the children's story is where only a kid can see them and adults can't because they don't have the magic of childlike innocence in their hearts or whatever. Anyway, Shia is able to get into his bedroom and his parents accuse him of ****in off, and you can imagine all the "comedy" "gold" they are able to squeeze out by riffing on that one. I think it's supposed to be funny to see the serious Transformers characters involved in this sort of wackiness, but since they have not yet portrayed in a serious light there is nothing to contrast it with.

At this point the movie is beyond feature length and then they introduce a new villain, John Turturro as a Men In Black type agent under the mistaken impression that he's being funny. His performance is over-the-top enough to fit in in a movie like SPACE JAM or ROCKY AND BULLWINKLE, that is what they would like to do with his talents. And it keeps cutting away to a parallel storyline about a team of NSA analysts (all shaggy-haired twentysomething hipsters) and secretary of defense John Voight and Anthony Anderson playing Kevin Smith's character from LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD and a giant alien cube discovered in ice by Shia's great great grandfather. And all the robots are here on earth to find a pair of glasses, which are in Shia's bedroom in a backpack, so it should probaly have taken 30 seconds of screen time to get to them instead of 90 minutes. There is a part that I almost think I might've dreamed but I remember it so vividly, where there is a cartoon BOING! sound and then there's a long shot of one of the robots proudly ****ing all over John Turturro. This guy has toiled away in independent film for decades, done so much great work and in order to get a pay check he has to get R. Kellyed by a ****ing cartoon robot. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be funny or if it's supposed to be sexy but it failed on both counts. And then all the sudden Shia's car/robot/pet gets shocked and dragged away on cables and the score turns into violins like it's SCHINDLER'S LIST. It is an understatement to say that this heartwrenching music is not earned. It's like if Jennifer Love Hewitt's character in GARFIELD found out she had cancer and we were expected to get choked up.

Towards the end the movie starts to be more about Transformers. But if any of the filmatists were interested in turning them into actual characters they must've been too busy running errands or something to add that into the movie. Optimus Prime is pretty funny because he speaks almost entirely in platitudes. My guess is they didn't have time to write or record dialogue for him so they just used a key chain where you push buttons and different Transformers soundbites come out. His voice is awesome, the only thing resembling gravitas in the movie. He is shamelessly corny and old fashioned, while every other element of the movie is trying to be irreverent and self aware. So it's so out of place you gotta laugh any time he speaks.

I guess this is the part that people wanted, the BIG ACTION SEQUENCE where robots chase a boy carrying a cube over buildings. Some robots do flips and fight each other. The effects are obviously very expensive and somebody worked a long time on making them, so way to go, E for Effort. But I think the Lord would agree with me when I say Jesus Christ, if this is what you guys consider exciting action sequences I don't even know how to relate to you anymore.

Imagine you took apart a whole bunch of cars, mixed the parts up and welded them all together into a giant ball maybe 15 or 20 feet in diameter, then rolled it down a hill. Shoot that in closeup and you got every fight scene in this movie. I'm sure the Michael Bay style is a huge contributing factor, but I'm pretty sure you could've shot these fights with a stationary camera like a boxing match and I still would have no clue what the **** was going on. I am no expert on robotics but to my untrained eye, these robots look like ****. Their designs are so overly complicated you can't tell which part is which. One robot (I think a bad guy robot, but not sure) goes flipping through the air in slow motion and while staring at it I was not entirely sure which end was up. There are scenes that are close on Optimus's face while he's talking where I could not even make out a face. I never knew which robot was which or who was a good guy or bad guy or what vehicle was what robot. Luckily Optimus has a shiny blue part on him, occasionally I would see shiny blue and know that hey, that's Optimus! I spotted one!

What Michael Bay has already done to action editing and staging he has now done to character design. If Walt Disney really was a frozen head he would probaly be driven out of hiding to bite Michael Bay's nose off for what he has done here. I don't think the animation is very good either, they all move too fast and seem kind of weightless and don't know how to stand still, but it's kind of pointless to even get into that when they just look so god damn ugly and confusing that even in slow motion they disgrace the many talented artists who were roped into working on this ****. If you're gonna make us wait two hours for a big dumb robot fight at least make robots that we can tell apart or can distinguish what they are doing or which part of their body is the head. In a Godzilla movie I can tell which one is Godzilla and which one is Mothra without studying it frame by frame and comparing it to charts and diagrams.

In the interest of balance, I will say some nice things about the movie. There's a part where the Transformers are in car form and they are driving around, they are all brand new and shiny stupid looking vehicles and it's shot like a car commercial. That was pretty funny. Also, it was nice that the horrible rock music only came on about four or five times, not constantly like in the cartoon version. The military stuff, sometimes that reminded me of the old '80s action movies, all this military hardware they were showing. The constant ludicrousness of every single aspect of the movie makes it less boring than many bad movies, like a GHOST RIDER or a NATIONAL TREASURE. And, the, uh-- I guess I haven't seen a side wheely in a movie in a while. I don't know. I'm sure there are other positive aspects.

I can't remember the last time I saw a movie that left me this befuddled that it actually existed. Now I know how your parents felt when they took you to see TRANSFORMERS THE MOVIE. "Well, I guess this is what kids like now. Huh." I mean look, Moriarty's main argument was that the movie "delivers" and you can't argue with a movie "delivering." But **** man, I guess I don't know what "delivery" is then. To me, this was an awe-inspiringly awful mess from start to finish, with no good characters, no sense of tension or drama, an asinine plot, badly told, full of constant, annoying attempts at humor, muddled action sequences and effects that hurt your brain trying to look at them. If you people are complaining about something like SPIDER-MAN 3 being too silly and then giving this one a pass, I don't know what the **** is going on. The best "characters" in the movie are the robots during the 5 or 10 minutes when they're trying to be serious, and those scenes come off campier than SHOWGIRLS. I haven't seen FANTASTIC FOUR 2 but I can't imagine it could be THAT much more moronic, poorly executed and groan-inducing than this one. I mean this one really is off the charts, it's a record breaker. It probaly required alien technology to make it like this.

I know it's not fair to drop the B&R bomb, it's like comparing people to Hitler in political discussion. But TRANSFORMERS is honestly approaching BATMAN AND ROBIN proportions of horribleness. You can't say it's as bad, because the lighting is nice and nobody's wearing rubber fetish costumes or pink gorilla suits, but it's a similar type of minding-numbing machine gun barrage of moronic, inept garbage. And it goes on for almost 2 1/2 hours, longer than some interrogations.

So in a way, that does explain to me why some people might enjoy this. Some people like to be whipped and peed on. And it's an instant camp classic. I know people who get a good laugh out of ****ty movies like INDEPENDENCE DAY, and I will definitely demand that they see this **** on video, because it makes INDEPENDENCE DAY look like 2001. It's so full of quick cuts and preposterousness I'm sure I missed all kinds of things. They were already onto the next scene by the time my brain processed the fact that I had just seen a Mountain Dew machine transform into a bad guy robot. Hopefully he will be the main villain in the sequel. But he'll be defeated by a good guy Nike truck. I can't see enjoying this on anything other than an ironic or anthropological "human beings really made this!" type level. No matter how it plays this summer, this movie is so full of bad taste and "what the ****?" moments that I do believe it will live on. Ten or fifteen years from now, when some theater in a college town plays it as a double feature with ROADHOUSE, it will absolutely kill.

Did the movie work on my crowd? I'm not sure. Some of the lame jokes got laughs. Some got none. There were parts obviously meant to be crowdpleasers where you would hear one person clap or laugh in the back somewhere. There was definitely alot of sarcastic wooing and clapping. But there was also some applause at the end, which I'm gonna assume was sincere. We have already seen enough reviews to know that some people can enjoy this. I talked to a guy who loved it, said it was the best movie he's seen this year, that it knew what it was and was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek and what do you expect, it's The Transformers, it's a summer blockbuster movie, it's awesome. I'm glad he enjoyed it, but none of those arguments hold water with me, and I can't help but be sad that this is what we are willing to accept as entertainment. BATMAN AND ROBIN knew what it was and was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek and what did we expect. And if just because it's Transformers it's allowed to be inept, moronic garbage, then why are we going to see a movie based on Transformers in the first place? I know DADDY DAY CAMP is gonna be awful but I don't expect these same people running out saying that was awesome because what do you expect, it's DADDY DAY CAMP.

And I know I made this point in talkbacks, and so have others, but it bears repeating. DIE HARD was a blockbuster/popcorn/summer/event movie. So was ALIENS. And TERMINATOR 2. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK. STAR WARS. JAWS. ROAD WARRIOR. PREDATOR. ROBOCOP. TOTAL RECALL. THE MATRIX. LORD OF THE RINGS. You people who like your BATMAN and SPIDER-MAN and X-MEN and SUPERMAN and James Bond and LETHAL WEAPON... these are all big event movies, many of them timeless, many of them clever, well-crafted, some of them masterpieces. I am not being pretentious, I am not expecting too much, these are mainstream, crowd pleasing movies and they are what you used to hope for when you went to a summer movie. You can't realistically expect a movie as good as ALIENS every time, but that's better than resigning to the idea that "summer movie" equals "horribly made infantile disposable pap" and being excited about it anyway. If a summer movie is meant to be like TRANSFORMERS, then why the **** aren't you people embarrassed to be going to see summer movies? At least have the decency to admit that it's a strange, possibly deviant hobby.

Everyone expects this movie to be a huge runaway hit, a moneymaking juggernaut. It happened with ARMAGEDDON and INDEPENDENCE DAY and I lived through election 2004, so certainly I can see that happening. But man oh man do I not get it. Women, especially, I have respect for, and I cannot understand them getting any sort of enjoyment out of these goofy cartoon junkpiles wrestling each other and saying things like "One shall stand and one shall fall!" If this is accepted as good entertainment then we're another step closer to the world of IDIOCRACY and the hit movie ***.

If America loves this movie, I want a ****in recount.

But what about my Michael Bay loving buddy? Did he like it? I wasn't sitting near him at the screening and as the movie went on I started to get concerned about what I was gonna say to him afterwards. I hoped he was having a good time, and I mean, I cannot comprehend his love for the other Bay movies. So I couldn't predict what he would think. But at the same time I could not actually picture him walking up to me with a straight face and saying "That was awesome!" And I couldn't guarantee that if that happened I wouldn't shake my head sadly, turn and walk away, our friendship forever weakened by a feeling that we just weren't from the same planet.

The credits roll. I find Mr. Armageddon. He smiles and says, "That was a piece of ****! That was ****ing garbage! Terrible!"

So thank you Michael Bay for bringing the world closer together. We can have peace some day. We just can't have good robot movies.

--Vern

Droid
07-04-2007, 10:17 AM
I will never see this movie, but just to be sure:

Does a Transformer really pull down Sam's pants down so he's in his
boxers? Why?

Are the Transformers really looking for a pair of glasses? Why?

Does a Transformer really "go the bathroom" on John Turturro? Why?

Why would Sam's grandfather be the one to fine the "giant alien cube"? Isn't that more than absurd coincidence?

Why in the world is there a transforming Mountain Dew machine?

These all seem to make the Phantom Menace fart jokes look like inspired Shakespearean homages.

Tycho
07-04-2007, 11:22 AM
I will never see this movie, but just to be sure:

I'd of course strongly recommend that you reconsider.


Does a Transformer really pull down Sam's pants down so he's in his boxers? Why?

Frenzy is trying to catch Sam, who wiggles out of the Decepticon's claws that way, the same way someone slips out of a glove while hanging over the edge of an abyss (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade) - except this time it's the character's pants instead of a glove or a shoe. The ultimate reason for it is Michael Bay thought that was funny. It is funny.

People can try to sound like they're intelligent or sophistocated by saying it's not funny, but I just want to laugh and have a good time.

Now no robot farted in this movie that I could tell (like JarJar Bink's "peeyousa" incident with the Eopiee at the Podrace starting line) - but I thought that was funny, too. Lighten up people. You're not better than anyone else because you don't laugh at this kind of base humor.



Are the Transformers really looking for a pair of glasses? Why?

Megatron, frozen in ice, found enough power to laser etch the location of the AllSpark into Sam's grandfather's glasses in 1903 or something. It was a desperate attempt to leave Starscream a clue after Megatron had been frozen in place there for like 1,000 years.


Does a Transformer really "go the bathroom" on John Turturro? Why?

Because Roberto Orcci thought that would be funny. Star Trek is in good hands...

But it actually was funny. The guy is a jerk, threatening Sam and Mikaela and tells them that his Federal badge lets him do anything he wants, and "he has the power...." BumbleBee ****** on that. It was funny. Then Ironhide says something about "leaking lubricants" like he always used to. I was smiling.


Why would Sam's grandfather be the one to fine the "giant alien cube"? Isn't that more than absurd coincidence?

No. That's why Sam was brought into the story in the first place. It was quite logical. Sam was trying to sell his grandfather's antique artifacts on eBay to get money for his first car. That's how the Transformers located him. There's some line that says, "Everyone searches eBay." It was a good piece of writing to work Sam into the story that way.


Why in the world is there a transforming Mountain Dew machine?

The "AllSpark" gives life to mechanical devices. This is a concept I don't like. The Transformers don't even pretend to understand it. It's just (I think the term is McGuffin? -but I don't know where that term came from) that all the robots came to earth to fight over. But the thing can spew out random misfires of its energy, and as it hits things, like the Mountain Dew machine, it turns them into Transformers. :rolleyes:

I totally would have made the movie into part-political commentary about the global energy crisis (G1 cartoons had the slightest hints of that when they were always looking for energon cubes), but instead Orcci wanted to go with this All-Spark thing. Whatever. I think that was a mistake, but if you suspend disbelief here (more than any other part of the movie), it can be fun. I mean what if the AllSpark thing hit a sex toys shop? You know how I like farting noises in movies and stuff like that? Well the AllSpark hitting a sex toy shop would be worth 1,000 times the humor in just one good, juicy fart noise and get way more mileage than the masturbation joke.


These all seem to make the Phantom Menace fart jokes look like inspired Shakespearean homages.

Not really. The Eopiee fart is really the only fart I can place in the Star Wars movies (Podrace scene). It was a forgettable moment in SW history if you ask me and not really comparable to a main character like BumbleBee taking a leak on the Agent Man. :D

I would have thought it funny if Ironhide farted - but BumbleBee did backfire out his tailpipe (while a car) really good. And Sam's mom told his dad he was cheap (her appraisal of the car).

All in all it was cute. I'm going to see it again, today! Great movie! :thumbsup:

figrin bran
07-04-2007, 11:43 AM
The Mountain Dew machine, aside from being a blatant form of product placement, is the star, if you will of the Capture the Allspark game on the Mt. Dew TF movie promotion site.

Beast
07-04-2007, 11:53 AM
Tycho, the All-Spark is from the classic toons. While it wasn't mentioned by name in G1, it was a pretty major aspect of Beast Wars. And it indeed is what gives life to the Transformers. Basically it's sorta the Transformers 'Afterlife', where all sparks that ever did live or ever will live exist. The problem is keeping it simple for the audiences and not info dumping them all this stuff on them, hence why what it is/does wasn't explained in great deal. Frankly I thought it was a fairly good 'McGuffin' to bring them to Earth.

figrin bran
07-04-2007, 12:05 PM
Actually the Allspark was a major aspect of Beast Machines and although it was in Beast Wars, it wasn't called the "allspark" yet.

Basically the Autobot Matrix of Leadership is a gateway that leads into the "allspark".

Beast
07-04-2007, 12:31 PM
Actually the Allspark was a major aspect of Beast Machines and although it was in Beast Wars, it wasn't called the "allspark" yet.

Basically the Autobot Matrix of Leadership is a gateway that leads into the "allspark".
I knew it was something like that. I didn't want to dig up Wikipedia, and went from memory.

But yeah, you get the jist. :D

El Chuxter
07-04-2007, 12:52 PM
<sigh>

The AllSpark is not an element of the classic cartoons. It was an element of Beast Wars. Beast Wars was good, and intended to be a continuation of the original series, but it was not the original series.

mabudonicus
07-04-2007, 01:13 PM
I thought you hated Transformers Chux ;) ??
:beard: Iso & Baws
I thought Chux hated all things Transformers

General_Grievous
07-04-2007, 01:19 PM
Glad I wasn't the only one who really enjoyed it. :D

Same here.

I think I really loved this movie because, like JJB and Guyute, I was not a huge TF fan as a kid. I owned the movie and a couple of toys, and I watched Beast Wars occasionally, but that's about it. So I didn't really have any preconceptions about the movie.

Beast
07-04-2007, 01:24 PM
<sigh>

The AllSpark is not an element of the classic cartoons. It was an element of Beast Wars. Beast Wars was good, and intended to be a continuation of the original series, but it was not the original series.
Yeah, it was actually better than the original series. :D

Beast Machines was pretty terrible though. Not a good follow up to Beast Wars.

darko666
07-04-2007, 01:34 PM
why is it, all the positive reviews i read, make the movie sound worse? they all seem to point out the flaws of the film, but state that it's a popcorn flick, so you should just take it as it is and enjoy the visuals. TPM had great visuals, but got s**t on by just about every critic and fan, so why does Transformers get a free pass? i can understand non Trans fans not caring about how the film played out, but to fans of the series, it's a kick to the crotch. oh well, Harry Potter will probably bring this movie to a halt at the box office.

El Chuxter
07-04-2007, 03:41 PM
My comment about Beast Wars not being the original series was not a comparison or opinion. It was a fact. Several years separated the two, and the decision to make it a continuation wasn't even firmly in place until the second season.

It's like saying Shaft in Africa is not Shaft. Same character, different movie.

DarthBrandon
07-04-2007, 05:51 PM
This movie was actually worse than I expected, I walked out feeling empty about it, like it was literally just a waste of my time, money, and effort to bother seeing it - I didn't hate it, I didn't pity it, I just didn't like it in any way. It was incompetent as a Transformers movie and just as inept as a movie-movie. The entire first act is needless, slow, and disposed of by the next 2 acts. There are so many plot holes it's shameless, I won't even bother mentioning them at this point. This is so much NOT what Transformers is about that you literally could have taken them out of the story altogether, inserted any generic alien or alien robot, and it would have changed virtually nothing - and STILL would have been a badly-paced, poorly-edited, sloppily-told piece of junk. The robots in motion were just as bad as I feared, very piecey and hollow CGI, and when they did an action scene it looked like an incomprehensible tangle of parts. And ultimately, the script fails every character - robot or human - in every manner possible at one point or another. There's this one line towards the end of the film where Josh Duhamel's character tells Sam that he has to be brave and be a soldier, it was done in a very serious tone but the audience laughed in incredulity at such pap being spewed. Bottom line, this is a dreadful turn of events for Transformers, and easily Michael Bay's worst film in general (and that's REALLY saying something).

And what REALLY amazes me is when I hear from or read reviews from those select few folks who say it's pretty bad and etc. etc. yet somehow they give it a 7 out of 10 for no apparent reason at all, and even admit to applauding briefly at the end of the flick - like they've become so brainwashed by the Hollywood studio hype machine that they can no longer tell when they don't like something, that even "not really good enough" in their minds is somehow "good" when asked for a public opinion. (Keep in mind, I'm not saying everybody who likes the film is in that boat, I'm only talking about a specific type of reviewer.)

The previews & story itself were enough to keep me away from this train wreck. I grew up with Transformers as a kid & I actually enjoyed the T.V. series of auto's VS decep's along with the cartoon movie. As soon as I heard that Bay was doing the live action movie, the first thought that came to mind was pure eye candy with no good plot or story that was true to the cartoon. That's one of the main reasons I have no desire whatsoever to see this film, I know that without a doubt the movie is about as far away from the cartoon as it can possibly be, which IMHO ruins (butchers is a better word) it entirely.

Tycho
07-04-2007, 07:45 PM
I just got home from seeing it my 2nd time today and I again loved it!

I thought the story was great.

I'll echo others in that my big problem with it was during the action, it was hard to tell who was who and what was going on.

JetsAndHeels
07-04-2007, 07:46 PM
I saw it this afternoon and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Loved the action, the plot, etc. Thought the battle scenes were great..the humor was good (although it got sort of stale after a while) and all in all the acting was well done.

I'm actually going to catch it again tomorrow afternoon after work.

Droid
07-04-2007, 08:30 PM
Megatron, frozen in ice, found enough power to laser etch the location of the AllSpark into Sam's grandfather's glasses in 1903 or something. It was a desperate attempt to leave Starscream a clue after Megatron had been frozen in place there for like 1,000 years.

So Megatron can be defeated if you have enough ice on hand? Why would he be frozen in ICE? You would think the Transformers could overcome extreme temperatures.


The Eopiee fart is really the only fart I can place in the Star Wars movies (Podrace scene).

I guess I was only thinking of Jar Jar stepping in dung, another fine moment in Star Wars.

preacher
07-04-2007, 08:57 PM
Just got back from seeing ďTransformersĒ. I grew up with these guys and had every episode recorded. I preferred the storyline that depited Shockwave as a logic obsessed nutcase, not the yes man from the cartoons. I lost interest when Kup and Hot Rod arrived. I know for example that Megatron was one of the first militarized Transformers to revolt against the Quintessons the creators of the Transformers. And he did this because of how poorly the Quintessons treated them. So when I sat down with my bucket of popcorn, and knowing that Megatron was going to be hugely disserviced, I sat my standards very very low. And was pleasantly surprisedÖ.

I liked it. I havenít underestimated a movie since the Matrix hit the theaters. Now Iím not saying that the Transformers is the caliber of Matrix. But it is entertaining and the robot designs (even Frenzy) didnít bug me like I thought they would Ė when they were static. When autobot and decepticon were beating the crap out of each other it was very difficult to tell the robots apart from one another. Bayís fast cut style only fueled this problem. I still loath the designs of Starscream and Megatron. But Frenzy, was quite cool and had mannerisms that made him live up to his name.

It did not raise the bar for the superhero genre. It was better than Spiderman 3 and in my opinion at the same level as the first X-men. The pacing was consistent. It alternated between slapstick and action breaking up the seriousness with some humor. For me it succeeded in skating that line between ďtake me serious damn it! Iím a serious movie!Ē and ďcome on lighten up this is a story about giant robotsĒ. Iíve read several reviews where people are complaining because the reviewers believed that people in a situation like that wouldnít crack jokes. I disagree. I think in a time of crisis people would try to undercut the seriousness of the events with humor. We do it all the time. Its our nature.

There was one big problem with the story though. The hero Sam, by virtue of being a hero is supposed to be challenged and learn something by the time the final actís outcome is decided. At the beginning of the story Sam is very narcissistic, cocky, a typical teenager who wants to rock the girlís world. Moving into the second act he faces challenges in which his true character comes out. So far so good, Sam meets the criteria for a hero. But by the final act I didnít think he learned anything. He didnít sacrifice anything. **SPOILER**He ďdecidesĒ to shove the all spark into Megatron instead of Optimus. Well duh. But how is crippling Megatron a challenge to Samís character. It isnít. The theme ďNo sacrifice no victoryĒ , which is repeated every twenty minutes so that we donít forget falls flat. All the other characters learned this lesson, but Sam didnít. **END**I left the movie unconvinced Sam had changed at all. If anything Samís mother should have been endangered somehow. And when faced with the destruction of the planet or his own mother he would make the difficult choice and sacrifice his mother. Which didnít necessarily mean she had to die. Had something like that happened the story would have been wrapped in a nice neat bow. Sam would have learned and tested his true inner character. I would have come away from the movie knowing what was really important to Sam.

Characterisation for the Transformers was hit or miss. Jazz was captured nicely as a flambouyant show off. He didnít talk much, but he didnít need to. His movement captured his personality. Ratchet came across as very conserative and nanny-like with a few lines. Bumblebee was great. He was reminscent of the Bumblebee from the first two issues of the first Transformer comic. Ironhide came across as trigger-happy and hot-tempered. There is a line in the movie I thought was out of character for him though. He seemed like a robot that was unsure as to which allegiance he followed, and I didnít remember that in any of the G1 stories. Ironhide should have been a different color. Red would have made him stand out so much better. But maybe he was black to symbolize his contempt for humans. The representation of Optimus was very faithful. The lip movement did not look half bad either. I didnít understand the point of it, but I could look past it.

The decepticons, except Frenzy, were not given any characterisation at all. Like others have said they seemed to be thrown into the mix as eye candy. Targets to be destroyed and nothing more. Most of the decepticons died within a minute of making an appearance. There was one instance in which Starscreams character as a treacherous stab-you in the back pyschopath should have shined. But he didnít come across that way at all. Megatronís character was okay. The scrap metal look just bugged me. I wasnít convinced that THIS Megatron was a cool and collected military genius first generation transformer. His physical look was too chaotic. And that seemed to be the way the character was portrayed as well. His motives for disliking sentients could have been elaborated a bit more with just one more additional exchange of dialogue between Optimus and himself. Blackout, Devastator, Bone Crusher, and Barricade designs were pretty cool looking.

I kind of wish that there were less subtle salutes to the die-hard fans. The Transformation sound from the cartoon was out of place. And some of the dialogue was out of place. It almost seemed like Bay was throwing bones just to show that he is sensitive to the fans. And it came across insincere, especially since I knew from reading his interviews that he thinks the die-hard fans are a bunch of retards.

The movie is fun. It has flaws. Most agregious is Samís personal story. But it is what you would expect from a movie about fifty foot tall robots pummelling the hell out each other.

El Chuxter
07-05-2007, 12:13 AM
I saw a making-of special on HBO, which cemented my decision to not spend money to see this.

Honestly, I'm not asking Michael Bay to learn every tech-spec score and know the motto of every ActionMaster. But when the director of the film continually refers to a character named "Scorponax," it shows he didn't see it necessary to do the minimal research into the property.

Also, his assertions that this would be a very funny movie, interspersed with jokes that were obviously meant to be amusing and failed miserably, didn't particularly help the movie's case.

Beast
07-05-2007, 01:11 AM
So... he simply mispronounced the name of an incredibly minor character in the film a few times in a making-of special, and suddenly he clearly has no respect for the characters or the property. Wow. That's a seriously major nitpick. Me thinks you have no desire to even try to like the film. And are just looking for any possible reasons to hate it.

Tycho
07-05-2007, 01:35 AM
I agree with Beast there.

I do hold the utmost respect for El Chuxter's opinion on all-things Transformers. I will forever be grateful for his getting me the Masterpiece Optimus Prime - which is almost unchallenged as my favorite toy I own.

But I wish Chux would trust us on this (and JT, too - perhaps seeing the movie when he is well-rested and the theaters have emptied a little?)

However, the positive audience response to the film, curiously be all ages of film-goers, is encouraging. I heard from my uncle that it is earning a storm at the box office, too.

My two shows have brought in even older retired women who are likely grandmothers now (but seeing the film with their older, retired, 2nd husbands, NOT with kids in tow). I seriously doubt they could name a Transformer character before they go into the film.

I've listened to conversations upon leaving with people asking "When can we buy the 2008 Concept Camaro?" as if it will transform when they get one. I know GM pushed their presence hardcore, but if that is the reaction to the Autobots, I think in the VERY short term, they ARE going to make some sales!

(I heard people liking the Top Kick and Solstace, too. Jazz got a cheer when he spied the car in the showroom and scanned it for his Alt-mode).

figrin bran
07-05-2007, 02:12 AM
That Vern review that JT posted is really making me question whether I really want to watch this movie or not.

Those of us that did enjoy it, i hope it's not a case where we're giving it a "free pass" just because it bears the Transformer name?

It just occurred to me today that this is probably a lot of people's first exposure to Transformers and how utterly sad of a situation that is.

El Chuxter
07-05-2007, 02:22 AM
Y'know, if you make a movie and don't know the names of the characters in your own movie well enough to not pronounce it even close to what the character's name is, yeah, I think there's a problem.

Whatever. Fine, I'm looking for reasons to hate a movie by saying, "Hmmm, maybe everything I've seen and read indicates to me that I don't want to spend $20 that could be used for likely more entertaining to me, as I tend to know better than others what I personally enjoy." I've never said I wouldn't watch this on TV. I've simply said that it doesn't look particularly good. I'd have no problem with being pleasantly surprised, but I'd rather not spend the money if everything indicates it would be wasted. I have this silly nitpick where I like to have some sort of story to go with the flashy visuals and explosions. I must just be nuts. I think I'll go burn some Thrawn Trilogy books and kick some puppies now.

darko666
07-05-2007, 02:35 AM
just got back from seeing Transformers, and i'm completely stumped as to how Trans-fans enjoyed this. i can see a regular movie goer slightly enjoying the jokes, action and CGI, but when a story about a boy and his car turns into a boy with his car, military, girl, hackers, dog, and the worst acting i've seen from John Turturro(can't blame him, the script was horrible), i fail to see whats left that this movie can fall back on. Peter Cullen as Prime is the only redeeming factor.

i'm in agreement with Chux, how can i respect or even care for a movie based on a cartoon/toy that i grew up with and loved as a kid and still enjoy as a young adult, is put into the hands of a director with no knowledge or care for the property he is working with? your only reason for liking this movie can't soley be based on the action and CG alone, or can it?

the fight scenes in this movie were very short. they built up the Bonecrusher/Prime fight so much, and then, when it finally happens in all it's glory on the big screen, all i see is a pile of scrap metal crunching together and ending before it even gets interesting. the trailers showed the whole fight, except for the end, which was to abrupt. same goes for the Bumblebee/Barricade fight, or lack of.

Frenzy. what can i say about this useless robot. annoying noises(which no one seems to hear), gives the finger, and was a late entry into the film since Soundwave was cut. kinda happy about that though, as from what Don Murphy said, Soundwave was going to be a disc player that had discs that changed into Ravage, Laserbeak and so on.

this movie should have only been 2 hours at the most. to many unneeded scenes. the backyard scene went on far to long, and added nothing to the Autobots or the human charcters, other than making them utter jokes back and fourth. shame the neighbors didn't hear the Autobots walking around or talking with each other, or feel their foot steps as they walked around.
how does nobody notice walking robots?

and for you "sit back and enjoy the movie for what it is" people, i did just that. i sat back, watched and saw Transformers, or what these robots who sort of, but not really looked like from their older selfs, walk around on screen and be treated with no respect and were more of a product placement for GMC.

the action and CGI, did not save this movie at all, so i hope people who enjoyed this film have a more valid reason for liking this movie.

and what about the mountain dew machine? i'm sure it's still out there roaming the streets.

Potter, don't let me down.

figrin bran
07-05-2007, 02:59 AM
Thank you for your review Darko! It just seems like those who were disappointed by the film have more to offer in the way of comments/criticisms than do people who enjoyed the film.

Beast, you have to understand that a lot of us have been posting in this thread for a year or more now. I don't know how the others feel but i'm rather worn out by all the controversies that have come up during the past year from the designs to BayofPigs anti fan comments to Frank Welker, voice of the G1 cartoon Megatron getting an audition but not being offered the part.

There have been so many negative developments that it's just not possible at this juncture for many of us to find enjoyment in this film. As they say, initial impressions are often the strongest.

You can say that we're just looking for every reason to hate this film but over the better part of the last year, we've waited and waited for signs that it might actually be enjoyable. Some of us have found them while others have not. and that's perfectly fine and does not make anyone of us less of a TF fan.

Tycho
07-05-2007, 03:24 AM
I enjoyed the movie and found many memorable lines, too:

"Why if he's some kind of super-advanced robot does he change back into this POS old Camaro?"

SCREEEEEECH!

"I think you ****ed him off."


And we asked the question about the robots hiding in the backyard to Sam's house - why don't they just transform. They do, but their alt modes (Ratchet's, Ironhide's, and Prime's) are so large that even that doesn't hide them well: [Sam]: "Guys! This is not a truck stop!"

It brought out a lot of laughs in me and the audience I was viewing the film with both times. Most people were just rolling at the masturbation joke, btw. I still haven't heard all the dialogue from that part because the audience was laughing so loud.

But I think it's a good thing when you can quote the movie after only seeing it the first couple of times.

"One shall stand and one shall fall!"

"Autobots: Roll out!"

"Decepticons: Attack!"

"You've failed me again, Starscream!"

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

OK, granted the 5 quotes above have been said with heart for 20+ years, but it was nice to hear them again.

I'm Soooooo going to watch this movie tons of times when I get it on DVD and I'll possibly be back in a movie theater to see it again, tomorrow - if not, at least once more this weekend.

"Until all are one!"

'You want a piece of me, Megatron?!"

"I'll take two!" RrrrrriiiiiiiippppPPP!

I only wish the fight sequences were clearer as to what was happening. Also I'm reading on TFW2005's boards that either:

1) Barricade was killed by Optimus Prime but it was cut...
2) Barricade was shot by Ironhide during the street battle, but it's hard to see
3) Barricade lived because he's going to be in the sequel, and that's why his death was cut

Decepticons:

Megatron - you know he'll be back
Starscream - left earth to get reinforcements
Scorponok - would seem to still be alive and missing in the desert, tail-less.
Frenzy - would seem to be either dead or repairing himself
Barricade - see above - I don't know
Brawl - dead, dead, dead - killed by BumbleBee being towed by Mikaela mostly
Blackout - dead, dead, dead - killed by the soldiers
Bonecrusher - dead, really over-killed by Optimus Prime! (the audience cheered!)


Autobots:

Jazz - didn't live long to really do much
Ratchet - covered Sam, but what else did he accomplish?
Ironhide - might have killed Barricade, covered Sam
Optimus Prime - took out BoneCrusher, fought Megatron hardcore
BumbleBee - protected Sam, had lots of fights, wounded, still fought Brawl!*


*BumbleBee was awesome Bee-yotch! :thumbsup:

mabudonicus
07-05-2007, 09:39 AM
just for posterity, from WAY back in the thread
Chux (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showpost.php?p=305236&postcount=43)
got it right the first time :D


1) Barricade was killed by Optimus Prime but it was cut...
2) Barricade was shot by Ironhide during the street battle, but it's hard to see
3) Barricade lived because he's going to be in the sequel, and that's why his death was cut
So lemmee get this totally straight- you've seen the film twice and loved the heck out of it and STILL don't know WTF happened in most of it (well, the action scenes at least, which damn well better be most of the film) ?!?!?!?

Any "mindless popcorn flick" where you actually have to scour the 'webs after two viewings just to make some sense of it sound like an abject failure... I honestly believe that Bay has embedded some kind of Alpha waves into the thing, to make folks feel euphoric and confused, kinda like a movie version of MDMA or something

Weird, just plain weird....

:beard: Iso & Baws

Too bad Chux and me didn't write this film

Tycho
07-05-2007, 11:17 AM
If Chux wrote the film, it would be all about Grimlock ;)

You know it!

But good point about the action sequences Mabs.

Here's the thing about the action and "where was who?" :

Prime - took out BoneCrusher was fighting Megatron.
BumbleBee - wounded and then driven by tow truck against Brawl.
Ironhide and Ratchet - were covering Sam I guess -then ineffective against Brawl? (Devastator?)
Jazz - well we know...
Starscream - engaging the Air Force, sometimes after Sam
Blackout - engaging the humans, sometimes after Sam
Frenzy - trying to stop the humans at Hoover
Scorponok? - wounded and MIA
Barricade???

SO NEW THOUGHT:

Michael Bay's films seem to be drafting their own continuity - Quintessans didn't create the Transformers, and Cybertron, as far as we know, wasn't a giant being known as Primus, etc.

So who knows if there was an Alpha Trion or someone in this continuity.

Traditionally, the wisdom of the Cybertronians was handed down through the Autobot Matrix of Leadership.

What if in Bay's continuity, Prime puts the AllSpark fragment he took from Megatron's wound into a containment device (the Matrix) and he is the first - The Prime?

That could make Prime the target of the Decepticons in the sequel, as well.

What do you guys think?

Droid
07-05-2007, 11:21 AM
It seems that people who like this movie fall into two camps:

1. Those who like Transformers and will give this movie every chance to be great out of loyalty and love for Transformers.

2. Those who know nothing about Transfomers, just want a popcorn movie
that requires nothing of them, and so will forgive any problem with the movie because, "what do you expect out of a movie about giant robots."

Well I am not going to set aside what I expect Transformers to be in order to give Michael Bay's vision of Transformers an honest shake. I have been told Megatron and Starscream are hardly in it and barely interact. Soundwave is not in it at all. The Transformers don't look like Transformers. The movie is really about the humans. It is nearly impossible to tell which Transformer is which when they fight. Spike is named Sam. Why would I see this?

So basically they remake Star Wars but Darth Vader is barely in it. They don't put the Death Star in it because it doesn't make sense to the new director that a space station could destroy an entire planet. Han Solo is renamed Henry beacause Han just doesn't sound like the right name for the main character to the director. Oh, and we're told the movie is really about how Owen and Beru relate to the larger struggle because we need to see it through their eyes.

Have any of you heard Kevin Smith describe what someone wanted the new Superman to be? No costume, no flying, and in the third act Superman was to fight a giant spider. To me this is like that movie got made. I think Superman Returns had problems, but at least Singer had a real reverence for the material. Bay just wants to remake Transformers as he thinks it should be. I wonder if you would all defend flightless Superman in a different costume because you all love Superman so much.

I have never seen a movie in which every positive review disparages it and then gives it a positive review the way this one is.

I will never see this movie. I am really glad others are enjoying it.

Phantom-like Menace
07-05-2007, 11:53 AM
I thought the movie was fine. And yes, I'm a fan going way back, G1 or nothing, no Beast Wars, no Alternators, etc. There were silly moments, but not one as silly as some of the moments of the animated Transformers movie. Yes, the girl was attractive, and I hardly think that invalidates my opinion of the movie. Peter Cullen started speaking and I started smiling. I didn't have a problem with the humor so much as I have a problem with all the people who would have complained if the movie had no humor. I liked the holographic pilots and drivers the Decepticons were using to make it look like they were being operated by humans. I loved when Turturo said he'll give the guy to the count of five and Duhamel sticks a gun to his chest and said he'll give him to the count of three. I don't have the love-on for the movie to fuel a giant love letter to it to match the hate-on that fuels the giant hate-mails for everyone else. That said I think I can give it a 7 out of 10 without saying I gushed love for all things Michael Bay's Transformers. Remember, seventy-percent in school is not a grade you want your child to bring home.

It seems if you write a damned novel of every tedious problem you had with the movie and even add in a paragraph or eight about whether or not you had gas that day or whether or not it was raining or your parents happen to provide you enough nurturing, then you legitimately hated the movie and have justified the prejudice of those that haven't seen the movie.

But if you simply say, "I liked it" and simply make a few comments that do not meet the thirty thousand word requirement for opinion validation, you're a fan boy and no one understands why you like it. For those of us who didn't hate it, we might pad out our novel with talk about how we were having a really good hair day, or how we like that certain expression that John Voight gives at 34:12:23, how we like the placement of the scuff on the back right quarter panel on Bumblebee, how the cute girl at the concession stand smiled at us, how we've seen every movie that the Best Boy Grip did, so we have significant points to make about his work. But whatever you do, don't point out any places you thought the movie needed work, because those points indicate you hated it and are letting the movie ride on it's name. The haters were sure not to confuse the issue with places the movie did okay, and neither should we confuse the issue.

Droid
07-05-2007, 12:10 PM
I thought the movie was fine. And yes, I'm a fan going way back, G1 or nothing, no Beast Wars, no Alternators, etc. There were silly moments, but not one as silly as some of the moments of the animated Transformers movie.

Even as a child of ten years old I thought the animated Transfomers movie was terrible beyond measure.

Unicron was a good idea. Having some Transformers die was cool. Having Optimus' big fight into the city with Megatron was awesome. But throwing out every Transformer known thus far to introduce a new toy line, brining in the Matrix out of nowhere, and killing most of the known Transfomers without any emotional impact being given to their deaths was unforgivable.

Beast
07-05-2007, 01:26 PM
Droid, why should Soundwave be in the movie? He's not necessary.

In fact, given the 'No Mass Shifting' rule that was imposed for the movie... I'm glad he's not. It wouldn't have been respectful to his character to have him as a 'Mini-Con' sized Robot. And given that Bay and the studio respected fans enough to change the character of Soundwave in the movie to Frenzy because he wasn't close enough to the classic G1 Soundwave to please the classic fans, it seems they have a lot more care and respect for the characters and universe than people like to admit. So what if Sam isn't Spike. He's not supposed to be the exact same character as the G1 version. That's why he's not named Spike. And why his Dad isn't Sparkplug. It's not the 80's anymore.

Of course since you're unwilling to see it and even give it a chance... you really have no point of refrence other than reviews for how much Megatron is in the film. No, he doesn't get a large part. But his character isn't the focus of the movie. And regarding Star Wars and Darth Vader. You realize that Darth Vader is infact hardly in the first Star Wars anyways. Because he's the villain character, and like most villains takes a back seat to the heroes. Much like with Empire, there's potential for developing characters, including the bad guys, if there's a sequel. Which likely will happen, unless Potter kills the box office.

Rocketboy
07-05-2007, 03:51 PM
Droid, why should Soundwave be in the movie? He's not necessary.Well, by the sounds of all the product placement, he could've been an ipod.

Kidhuman
07-05-2007, 04:00 PM
Well, by the sounds of all the product placement, he could've been an ipod.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Beast
07-05-2007, 04:14 PM
Well, by the sounds of all the product placement, he could've been an ipod.
But again, that would have been disrespectful and not true to the G1 version.

Frenzy was originally intended to be named Soundwave. But since the character and his role wasn't close enough to the G1 counterpart, we got Frenzy instead. That certainly shows me that they respected the franchise enough in that case.

Rocketboy
07-05-2007, 04:34 PM
But again, that would have been disrespectful and not true to the G1 version.Par for the course.

darko666
07-05-2007, 04:46 PM
But again, that would have been disrespectful and not true to the G1 version.

-Optimus doesn't have lips, nor flames and is a cab over semi truck
-Bumblebee talked and is a VW bug(but i guess we can blame VW for not wanting to be a part of the movie)
-Megatron has an arm cannon
-Starscream doesn't look like a chicken
-Devastator isn't a tank(can't believe they left that mistake in the film)
-Humans aren't the main focus
-Optimus and Megatron aren't brothers
-If you were to silhouette them, they would all look the same.

doesn't seem to G1 to me. can't wait to see how they treat Grimlock in the next movie, he will probably be an ice cream truck, since a Dinobot would be to ridiculous for the average movie goer to understand.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-05-2007, 05:02 PM
I seriously think that fanboys are going to say anything bad about this flick as it's not their 80's cartoon. Seriously, it's a cartoon that was based off a line of toys for christ sake!! I just don't get how negative things can be said about the flick/director/crew if you haven't seen the film yet. If you want your 80's cartoon, stick to it, ignore the film and move along. :whip:

General_Grievous
07-05-2007, 05:27 PM
-Optimus and Megatron aren't brothers


They didn't mean that literally.

Tycho
07-05-2007, 06:03 PM
They didn't mean that literally.

I agree. "Brothers in the AllSpark" I guess.

Great posts Phantom-Like Menace! :thumbsup:

I agree with Beast, too:


Droid, why should Soundwave be in the movie? He's not necessary.

Exactly. They could have set the movie in 1980, but the car companies who are sponsoring are not selling 1980 cars any more in 2007. Plus the mass-shifting issue with a walkman and cassette tapes.

I'm a G1 fan, but I've always been into Optimus Prime, Wheeljack, Hound, Mirage, Starscream - his efforts to beat Megatron with the Combaticons, etc.

I don't get the love for Shockwave or Soundwave - though the latter was kind of cool with his cassettes - but it's not like Soundwave was the only thing to love about G1 (and neither were the Dinobots, Chuxter ;) )

But the idea of symbiot teams (like Ravage and Laserbeak are to Soundwave) was sort of done with Frenzy ejecting out of Barricade and Scorponok dropping out of Blackout. That's why they were done that way in the first place! And the toys work that way too.

Maybe we'll even see Ravage and Laserbeak in the next movie, but their alt modes won't be cassette tapes (technology before i-Pods). But then what? The haters will want them to transform into Atari 2600s?


So what if Sam isn't Spike. He's not supposed to be the exact same character as the G1 version. That's why he's not named Spike.

Actually, I think he is. It was Spike Witwicky and Sparkplug Witwicky in the old cartoons. But what mother names their kid "Spike?" I suppose the kind that puts "bling" on her dog...but anyway, giving Sam a normal name was a good move. They can incorporate a callsign like a military guy in the next movie and call him Spike then. The same with Mr. Witwicky, thus calling him Sparkplug.

The human characters were excellent and the story never slowed down when the movie focused on them. For a first film, that worked out very well, in my opinion. The sequel should now be more about Optimus Prime, as well as the power struggle between Megatron and Starscream. The Dinobots or Combiners aren't needed for that either - unless perhaps they go with Starscream's use of the Combaticons.


Of course since you're unwilling to see it and even give it a chance...

So true!

Beast: your points about Darth Vader in ANH were also right on!


Much like with Empire, there's potential for developing characters, including the bad guys, if there's a sequel.

Yup. It's already been contracted for. I can't wait myself! (Well, I'll entertain myself by going to see this movie at least a dozen more times while it's still in the theater though).

Droid
07-05-2007, 06:12 PM
Droid, why should Soundwave be in the movie? He's not necessary.

In fact, given the 'No Mass Shifting' rule that was imposed for the movie....

Soundwave isn't necessary, but you can argue any character isn't necessary. However, if you want to make a movie about Transformers he belongs there as much as Chewbacca belongs in Star Wars or Cyclops belongs in X-Men. Soundwave was one of the three main Decepticons. Their entire dynamic has been ignored in this film. Soundwave completely devoted to Megatron. Starscream constantly trying to undermine Megatron.
For some mystical reason they decided to leave the main villains out of the film.

And by accepting the no mass shifting "rule" you play Bay's game. Don't accept his premise. Mass shifting was a part of Transformers from the get go, long before Michael Bay decided he knew best.

And I have a mini tape recorder in my desk. I use it every day for dictating. The idea that NO ONE uses cassette tapes anymore is just not true.

And Darth Vader was shown as much as any villain in a New Hope. And he was the main villain of the film. You can't say that about Megatron here. From what I understand he spent most of the movie being defeated by ICE.

preacher
07-05-2007, 06:53 PM
There was mass shifting. The cube went from being about 15 stories tall, to handheld size. Megatron absorbed it and therefore....

Tycho
07-05-2007, 07:24 PM
Droid, they made Blackout devoted to Megatron the way Soundwave was.

And Blackout released Scorponok the way Soundwave releases his symbiot tapes.

I agree with you about the dynamic between the Decepticon characters being lacking (and I've SEEN the movie).

As to the mass shifting?

1) Someone invented these toys - Optimus was a truck that had a trailer. Megatron was a gun. Soundwave a tape player. OK - fine. Tell kids there are good guys and bad guys. Then PLAY.

2) Hasbro sanctioned a CARTOON. Optimus goes through the space bridge to another planet, or transforms at the bottome of the ocean. His trailer is suddenly there. Soundwave or Megatron change sizes as well. Fine. It's a CARTOON watched by general enthusiasts of the toys - kids ages 4-10 or so that buy these things.

3) A live-action motion picture is being made and it needs to recover the expenses from more than just what 4-10 year olds might have in allowance money, as well as aid this effort with international-ticket sales to markets that probably did not get the cartoon translated into their own native language 20-some years ago. So you can add time to explain mass-shifting and run that concept by the crowd in a 2 1/2 hour movie, or you can avoid having to add that in - as it really doesn't do much for the story. You have certain elements that the audience needs to suspend their disbelief for: that aliens have landed; that they can change their form into cars; that they're nearly unstoppable. It all is enough. The main plot is that there is a fight on to get the AllSpark and if Megatron gets his hands on it, things are going to go really badly for everyone else.

Droid
07-05-2007, 07:39 PM
So you can add time to explain mass-shifting and run that concept by the crowd in a 2 1/2 hour movie, or you can avoid having to add that in - as it really doesn't do much for the story. You have certain elements that the audience needs to suspend their disbelief for: that aliens have landed; that they can change their form into cars; that they're nearly unstoppable. It all is enough. The main plot is that there is a fight on to get the AllSpark and if Megatron gets his hands on it, things are going to go really badly for everyone else.

I think that you could have just had mass shifting and no one would have given it a second thought. Or you could say that it all has to do with density in two lines of exposition if you don't want to use the space pocket theory I posted from another site in this thread. For example, you could say Megatron as a gun would be impossible for any human to lift because all of the mass/density is condensed. I can blow up a balloon and my mind isn't blown that a full balloon is bigger than a deflated balloon. I can understand that you could crush a car down to a small cube and it would weigh the same as the full sized car. Then if say, the cube had the ability to transform back to its full size, well that would appear to be bigger, woudn't it? I think audiences could get it.

And as for the main plot being about a fight to get the AllSpark, well I certainly would rather they dedicate more of the film to the concept of mass shifting than such a genius plot device as the AllSpark. How about the Decepticons want to suck the Earth dry to use its energy for Cybertron and the Autobots dont' think that's right and the fight is on? How about that?

darko666
07-05-2007, 07:58 PM
They didn't mean that literally.

i was thinking that since there was no added info on it, but with the film being in the hands of Bay and Co., it isn't to far fetched. but thank god it isn't true.
if i can find the article or interview i read that brough that up, i will post it. it was most likely on AICN, since a lot of talbackers on there were discussing the brother issue.

and for some reason, i got a Hulk Hogan vibe when Prime said brother. kinda sounded like Hogan, unless thats just me.

Tycho
07-05-2007, 08:54 PM
How about the Decepticons want to suck the Earth dry to use its energy for Cybertron and the Autobots dont' think that's right and the fight is on? How about that?

That would have been a lot better and socio-politically relevant and current as well. That's how I would have written it. The AllSpark was a McGuffin (I still don't know where that term comes from).

I agree with you on the mass-shifting point when you explain it that way. It still would be an incredibly hard special effect to do to "unfold" a tape deck into a huge robot. So that begs the question is Soundwave really that important? There we have a disagreement with his fans and other Transformers fans - who might also be G1 fans, just not in the Soundwave camp. (Ever seen a tape deck ran over by a red semi-truck? ;) )

Droid
07-05-2007, 09:21 PM
Ever seen a tape deck ran over by a red semi-truck?

I have, but it didn't look neat because the semi-truck had these stupid flames on the side.

Tycho
07-05-2007, 09:25 PM
Well the tape deck had black cat hair and bird-droppings in it anyway! :D

preacher
07-05-2007, 09:26 PM
Or for the mass reduction thing Ratchet could have explained by using the small intestine as a comparison. The thing is long. Really long and yet it fits in our abdomen. Hell Ratchet obviously knew something about humans. He detected Sam's pheromone levels and very humorously pointed out that he wished to mate with Mikaela.

figrin bran
07-05-2007, 10:44 PM
That would have been a lot better and socio-politically relevant and current as well. That's how I would have written it. The AllSpark was a McGuffin (I still don't know where that term comes from).



The term "Mcguffin" was popularized by Alfred Hitchcock. some well known examples of mcguffins include the Maltese Falcon statue in the film of the same name and the briefcase in Pulp Fiction.

Or i could be wrong about all this as i got the info off of wikipedia. :p

JimJamBonds
07-05-2007, 11:27 PM
Worst Transformers Movie Ever!

2-1B
07-06-2007, 12:22 AM
Simultaneously one of the goofiest movies I've ever seen while also being one of the most comic.

The reactions from both sides of the fence on this one are overblown IMO but what gets me is that a POS like this movie is on to its 97th page of this thread. lol lol lol

Beast
07-06-2007, 12:25 AM
Simultaneously one of the goofiest movies I've ever seen while also being one of the most comic.

The reactions from both sides of the fence on this one are overblown IMO but what gets me is that a POS like this movie is on to its 97th page of this thread. lol lol lol
Only the 49th page for me. ;)

figrin bran
07-06-2007, 01:27 AM
People are also talking up that JJ Abrams "Cloverfield" trailer at the beginning of the TF film. Those that have seen it, what did you think of it?

Tycho
07-06-2007, 01:57 AM
The Abrams' "Bad Robot" thing? Nothing was revealed. I didn't understand it and it left me with nothing to get excited about.

Some people in a city were partying and some guy was going to go away. I really didn't care. There was a big explosion and the Statue of Liberty's head crashed onto the street.

I was looking for Apes on Horses to come riding down the street chasing Mark Wahlberg with a shotgun.

As to Transformers, again so many people I know also loved it and we're quoting the movie already!

UPDATE: It's rumored that on the DVD print, "Devastator" is being changed to Brawl in the subtitles. It was a mistake that's being corrected. The toy is labled right. If true, it brings hopes for the Constructicon fans, as well.

Another friend who's a longtime G1 fan (the friend I borrowed all the G1 Season 1 and older edition of the 1986 movie DVD from) loved the movie and couldn't shut up about it. His girlfriend liked it too and actually wants to see it again with him. And his son (he's like 9 now) wants a yellow Camarro when he turns 16. GM is going to sell so many cars with these movies!

He also raved on about how the Camarro versus Mustang (Barricade was a Saleen made from a Mustang body) is an infamous rivalry ever since the Camarro was designed to be Chevy's muscle car answer to the Ford Mustang.
He's a Camarro fan, so that element of the story worked out perfectly!

BumbleBee so rocked!

By the way, Sam's dad bought him a 1974. How is he going to explain to his father how get traded it up for a 2008? Hehe. I'm sure Mr. & Mrs. Witwicky must know now - either what happened to their $4,000 or that they have a 25 foot tall alien robot living with them out in their driveway.

Most likely, BumbleBee might find something similar to the '74 in a junkyard and rip it off and have Ratchet restore it for Sam for everyday use. I can see him being the boy's guardian and companion, but maybe not making every milk run. Then again, it would be funny if Sam got a paper route for the next movie. "Advanced Visitor From Another Planet Journeys To Earth To Become A Paperboy." That'd make a great headline for Weekly World News.

tagmac
07-06-2007, 01:48 PM
What bugged me the most is, because Bay decided to ditch the old "blocky" look for the characters in favor of what we got, it made it harder to tell what part of what character we were looking at. The fight scenes especially suffered from this. With all of the small details and moving parts on each robot, it was hard to tell what was going on during the fight sequences. It seemed to turn into a giant mass of metal moving around quickly, too fast for the eyes to make out what was there.

I know many people have claimed the blocky look would have looked horrible on screen, but I have a feeling it would have been much better and more pleasing to the eyes than people think. These transformers looked great when standing still, but otherwise were very difficult to look at.

JetsAndHeels
07-06-2007, 02:40 PM
I know one thing, next week when summer school starts I am going to use that quote on my students:

"You may have a quiz tomorrow, and you may not...Sleep in fear tonight!!"

JimJamBonds
07-06-2007, 11:52 PM
I know one thing, next week when summer school starts I am going to use that quote on my students:

"You may have a quiz tomorrow, and you may not...Sleep in fear tonight!!"

I liked Rachet's comment about Sam wanting to "mate with the female."

bigbarada
07-07-2007, 01:42 AM
What bugged me the most is, because Bay decided to ditch the old "blocky" look for the characters in favor of what we got, it made it harder to tell what part of what character we were looking at. The fight scenes especially suffered from this. With all of the small details and moving parts on each robot, it was hard to tell what was going on during the fight sequences. It seemed to turn into a giant mass of metal moving around quickly, too fast for the eyes to make out what was there.

I know many people have claimed the blocky look would have looked horrible on screen, but I have a feeling it would have been much better and more pleasing to the eyes than people think. These transformers looked great when standing still, but otherwise were very difficult to look at.

I agree completely. They could have made the "blocky" look work, they just didn't want to. The overly complex designs combined with Michael Bay's spastic directing style made for very confusing and underwhelming battle sequences. Does he realize that they do make mounts for cameras so it is possible to hold them steady on your subject? I hated the way main characters were always falling out of the picture or getting obscured by some random lens flare because no one could hold the cameras still for two seconds.:mad: Plus, they always seemed to zoom in too close to the robots when they were transforming, so you never really got a good feel for the characters.

With a more capable director, this movie could have been great... someone who doesn't think that having his actors scream all of their lines at the top of their lungs equals good acting.

Also..... why was it so important to Bumblebee, a giant robot from another planet, that the kid scored with the hot chick?:confused:

Tycho
07-07-2007, 02:05 AM
Also..... why was it so important to Bumblebee, a giant robot from another planet, that the kid scored with the hot chick?:confused:

The Autobots wanted the glasses and Sam wanted to sell them for a car so he could score a chick.

BumbleBee was just trying to give Sam something he ultimately wanted in trade.

If you think about it, BumbleBee also "took Sam's car away from him," as he and his father paid $4,000 for something that wasn't even a car.

BumbleBee did what he did out of necessity to get close to Sam to get the glasses to help him locate the AllSpark.

So I take it, BumbleBee was already following Sam, knowing of his eBay auction and his wanting to get a car, and the way of the Autobots is not just to take it (that's something Megatron would do), so BumbleBee was going to ingratiate himself with Sam.

I think his actual plan was to first consult with Optimus Prime, but first the dogs chased Sam and then Barricade attacked him, so BumbleBee had to reveal himself sooner than he wanted to.

You didn't need the film to explain that, but it adds some more depth to it if you think about that. BumbleBee was so cool!

"Baby come back!"

bigbarada
07-07-2007, 08:52 AM
You didn't need the film to explain that, but it adds some more depth to it if you think about that. BumbleBee was so cool!

"Baby come back!"

You're right, Bumblebee was cool. I just hope that he gets his voice fixed for the sequel.

All complaints aside, I did like the movie it just frustrated me at certain parts.

Bosskman
07-07-2007, 09:50 AM
I saw it and liked it very much. I just wish the TFs faces looked more like the old cartoon ones (OP's was fine though). I'm pretty impressed because this was a movie I was expecting to suck big time...

Tycho
07-07-2007, 01:26 PM
You're right, Bumblebee was cool. I just hope that he gets his voice fixed for the sequel.


I was expecting a more American young man's accent when he supposedly got his voice back (BumbleBee) - like his voice in the G1 cartoon. But he sounded like a middle-aged British guy, didn't he?*

I have a friend that swears that was still "TV talk" and not BumbleBee's actual voice, but I don't think so. I think contact with the AllSpark healed him to a great degree (well Ratchet had to re-do his legs after Starscream's attack).

*They did this for Ironhide, so why not something different like they did a Creole Black Guy for Jazz (traditional voice for him anyway).

One thing that would have been cool to explain the different voices would have been to have the Autobots land in different communities and show them picking up English from different sources: a Southerner (traditional Ironhide), a transplanted Creole (traditional Jazz), and I'm not sure on the inspiration for Prime and Ratchet. In the end, Sam would become the inspiration for BumbleBee. "It's probably Japanese, good-lookin' Man." ;)

JetsAndHeels
07-07-2007, 03:07 PM
I liked Rachet's comment about Sam wanting to "mate with the female."

He smelled those pheremones!! :)

I think they should make the Sector 7 T-shirts like John Turturro had on under his work shirt...I'd love to get one of those for the S-Shield look!!

darko666
07-07-2007, 08:44 PM
People are also talking up that JJ Abrams "Cloverfield" trailer at the beginning of the TF film. Those that have seen it, what did you think of it?

seems interesting. the rumours of the film might be about Cthulu. if that turns out to be true, i will def be looking forward to this movie.

Mad Slanted Powers
07-08-2007, 02:35 AM
Saw the movie today. I was never a Transformers fan. I can't recall if I ever watched an entire episode of the show before. They came out a bit late for me to be interested in them as I was probably 14. I didn't watch cartoons much anymore at that point, and I thought making a TV show based on a toy was kind of lame. However, seeing the previews for the movie kind of had me interested.

I enjoyed the movie. I agree partly with tagmac about how the battle scenes were kind of confusing, especially since I wasn't too familiar with all the robots. However, I did like the way the robots looked and the way they transformed.

I didn't really know who was in the movie other that Shia LaBeouf, so it was kind of cool when I recognized "Aaron" from 24 and "Sucre" from Prison Break right off the bat.

JimJamBonds
07-08-2007, 01:22 PM
You're right, Bumblebee was cool. I just hope that he gets his voice fixed for the sequel.

He spoke at the end of the film when he told Prime he wanted to "stay with the boy."

Rocketboy
07-08-2007, 08:03 PM
Wow...just wow.

I want my $7 back.
I think Pearl Harbor was better.

I was a casual TF fan as a kid, I love those dumb, mindless action flicks, and I tried to keep my expectations at zero, but this was just a horrid piece of s**t.

The characters were complete and total morons. I wanted to punch them all. Hard. There were far too many crammed in there. And who the hell buys (or even looks at) a car without taking a look under the hood?

Most of TF didn't show up until 1/2 way through.

It was bad enough that you couldn't tell what the hell was going on during the boring action sequences, but you couldn't tell any of the damn TFs apart (aside from Bumblebee and Optimus, due only to their colors).

The humor wasn't funny. "Oh look, whatshisname peed on that guy. tee-hee."

They learned English from the internet? What the f**k? What about Megatron?
Did they have the internet 75 years ago?

Was I supposed to feel anything when...ummm...the gray one died?

I could go on and on but I won't.


F**k you Michael Bay.
You've ruined my movie-going experience for the last time.

Mad Slanted Powers
07-08-2007, 08:30 PM
I wouldn't say it was that bad. One thing I was wondering about though. Why did Sam have to run up to the top of that building? It seems like it would have been easier for one of the bots to carry him up, or at least get him to the building.

For a movie based on a cartoon based on a toy that I never had any interest in, it was entertaining enough. I go to so few movies, and only if I'm interested enough to begin with. So, I guess I am able to find enough reason to justify spending $6.50 for a matinee.

2-1B
07-08-2007, 10:08 PM
Was I supposed to feel anything when...ummm...the gray one died?


Exactly, he didn't die...he's a f***king robot. lol

Beast
07-08-2007, 11:02 PM
Exactly, he didn't die...he's a f***king robot. lol
Exactly. Just like how when Optimus died in the TF movie back in the 80's, noone cared. ;)

darko666
07-08-2007, 11:08 PM
Optimus dying in the 86 movie had more to it than the entire Michael Bay Go-Bots movie.

JediTricks
07-08-2007, 11:51 PM
First off, Tycho, you're nuts, the Witwicky family is driving a super-expensive classic British sports car and they live in a $1.5 million-plus home in Pasadena - that's not middle class.


Does a Transformer really pull down Sam's pants down so he's in his boxers? Why?Indeed he does, because Sam's trying to get away from the little human-sized robot trying to catch him, it's icky. This scene is totally stupid as well because Frenzy's right up against Sam several times and he's all pointy, Sam should have been killed by that long before his pants came down.


Are the Transformers really looking for a pair of glasses? Why?Sadly yes, Sam's great great grandfather accidentally found and activated Megatron - but JUST his navigation systems - which etched the information into the glasses and the old man's brain.


Does a Transformer really "go the bathroom" on John Turturro? Why?A friggin' AUTOBOT does at that, seems to be dousing Turturro's character with gasoline (it's slightly pink) but it's coming out of his crotch. Turturro's character is being mean to Sam and Mikela, the friends of said Autobot.


Why would Sam's grandfather be the one to fine the "giant alien cube"? Isn't that more than absurd coincidence?He didn't, he found Megatron by accident, they found the cube elsewhere and just brought Megatron right next to it. :rolleyes: But the coincidence factor is low since it's what brings the TFs attention to Sam later on when he auctions it - though this presents a logic hole, how would Sam be allowed to sell priceless family heirlooms at all?


Why in the world is there a transforming Mountain Dew machine?The aforementioned cube turns machines into living Transformers. Naturally they're all licensed products.


These all seem to make the Phantom Menace fart jokes look like inspired Shakespearean homages.Quite.



I'd of course strongly recommend that you reconsider.And I'd suggest you don't.


People can try to sound like they're intelligent or sophistocated by saying it's not funny, but I just want to laugh and have a good time.I don't hear about you watching a lot of Cartoon Network's Ed, Edd, & Eddie, or copious amounts of any other cheap stupid crap, so why is it different because it's TF?


Lighten up people. You're not better than anyone else because you don't laugh at this kind of base humor.Says the man who ranted like a lunatic because other people liked the recent Transformers toy lines. Having an appropriate sense of decorum and taste does not mean we're snobs, it only means you can't tell the difference between when humor is appropriate and when it's excessive and thus detracting from the program. Would it be appropriate for Obi-Wan to slip face-down in the mud during the final battle of ROTS while trying to walk away from Anakin's burning body? (Maybe in a perverse way because the movie already sucked, but the real answer is no.) It's like the James Bond flick The Man with the Golden Gun where they have this incredible, never-been-done-before, death-defying car stunt that someone REALLY did without any special effects and then the editor thinks it's funny to add a stupid goofy slide-whistle to it and ruins the whole thing - yes, James Bond movies of the era are somewhat silly, but not like that, it's totally inappropriate and detracts from all the other efforts.


Megatron, frozen in ice, found enough power to laser etch the location of the AllSpark into Sam's grandfather's glasses in 1903 or something. It was a desperate attempt to leave Starscream a clue after Megatron had been frozen in place there for like 1,000 years.There was no such mention in the film of it being for Starscream. Megs had been frozen for thousands of years, not just 1,000.



The "AllSpark" gives life to mechanical devices. This is a concept I don't like. The Transformers don't even pretend to understand it. It's just (I think the term is McGuffin? -but I don't know where that term came from) that all the robots came to earth to fight over. But the thing can spew out random misfires of its energy, and as it hits things, like the Mountain Dew machine, it turns them into Transformers. :rolleyes:It is "McGuffin", a term coined by Alfred Hitchcock, basically any object that doesn't serve the story except to drive the characters by its existence.


I totally would have made the movie into part-political commentary about the global energy crisis (G1 cartoons had the slightest hints of that when they were always looking for energon cubes), but instead Orcci wanted to go with this All-Spark thing. Whatever. I think that was a mistake, but if you suspend disbelief here (more than any other part of the movie), it can be fun. I mean what if the AllSpark thing hit a sex toys shop? You know how I like farting noises in movies and stuff like that? Well the AllSpark hitting a sex toy shop would be worth 1,000 times the humor in just one good, juicy fart noise and get way more mileage than the masturbation joke.Why do you keep blaming Roberto Orci as if he didn't work with his partner Alex Kurtzman on the screenplay, and both of them wrote based on John Rogers' script and what Michael Bay told them he wanted. By the way, everybody mentioned by name in this paragraph is an infamous hollywood hack, how funny is that?

Also, and I think this is key about Bay's Transformers, the humor is largely not "I'm being funny" kind but the "taking away dignity of myself or others" kind which I found foul and mean-spirited without adding anything in the plus column to the film's tone.


Not really. The Eopiee fart is really the only fart I can place in the Star Wars movies (Podrace scene). It was a forgettable moment in SW history if you ask me and not really comparable to a main character like BumbleBee taking a leak on the Agent Man. :DShort memory, Jar Jar also slips in fecal matter in Mos Espa and refers to it as "icky, icky goo!" All 3 scenes are very indelible though, they stand out because they are so incredibly out of place in their respective franchises.



Tycho, the All-Spark is from the classic toons. While it wasn't mentioned by name in G1, it was a pretty major aspect of Beast Wars. And it indeed is what gives life to the Transformers. Basically it's sorta the Transformers 'Afterlife', where all sparks that ever did live or ever will live exist. The problem is keeping it simple for the audiences and not info dumping them all this stuff on them, hence why what it is/does wasn't explained in great deal. Frankly I thought it was a fairly good 'McGuffin' to bring them to Earth.Actually, the Allspark was from Beast Machines and behaved TOTALLY differently from this movie thing. I thought it was a terrible McGuffin in the movie, it's WAY too powerful, it behaves in a nonsensical manner - if it creates life from the inanimate, why doesn't it give life to dirt, why does it only give life to machines on occasion and why are they all evil when the Autobots aren't, where did the Transformers original non-sentient machines come from, and why does planet Cybertron die without it? Why does it mass-shift from the size of a building to a basketball and why didn't it do it before? Why did they create an entire dam around it then bring the dangerous giant robot to the exact same place, and why not have a better backup system in case something goes wrong?



why is it, all the positive reviews i read, make the movie sound worse? they all seem to point out the flaws of the film, but state that it's a popcorn flick, so you should just take it as it is and enjoy the visuals. TPM had great visuals, but got s**t on by just about every critic and fan, so why does Transformers get a free pass? i can understand non Trans fans not caring about how the film played out, but to fans of the series, it's a kick to the crotch. oh well, Harry Potter will probably bring this movie to a halt at the box office.Great point! I suspect it's the Michael Bay effect, all his popular movies have this affect on the majority of audiences, they come out of the theater satisfied but cannot put their finger on why and with the passage of time they see how bad the movie really is.


My comment about Beast Wars not being the original series was not a comparison or opinion. It was a fact. Several years separated the two, and the decision to make it a continuation wasn't even firmly in place until the second season.

It's like saying Shaft in Africa is not Shaft. Same character, different movie.First, I don't see how that "Shaft" metaphor works at all, but I never saw SiA. Second, BW was always planned to be a continuation of the original series, they just hid it until season 2 - but seeds were planted from the beginning. Never the less, BW was not planned when G1 was made, that is not in doubt, BW is absolutely a retcon (retroactive continuity, the SW prequels have a number of retcons for example).



The previews & story itself were enough to keep me away from this train wreck. I grew up with Transformers as a kid & I actually enjoyed the T.V. series of auto's VS decep's along with the cartoon movie. As soon as I heard that Bay was doing the live action movie, the first thought that came to mind was pure eye candy with no good plot or story that was true to the cartoon. That's one of the main reasons I have no desire whatsoever to see this film, I know that without a doubt the movie is about as far away from the cartoon as it can possibly be, which IMHO ruins (butchers is a better word) it entirely.My attachment to TF has always been first and foremost to the toys, so while the G1 cartoon has its place in my heart, I was able to accept some level of change - though I do believe TF and its characters have specific essences that should be adhered to based on the G1 'toon. And while I loathe Bay, I did recognize that there is some "in the moment" value to watching his movies, however little, and went in expecting that. But the movie fails even there I think, it's an insult to Transformers Fans but it's also just a badly-made action film, not even a good Michael Bay film. When I came out of the theater, folks weren't smiling and excitedly talking, they looked like they just got off the bus from Tucson to Albuquerque.



I thought the story was great.What was great about the story? I am genuinely curious, I haven't heard this claim but from 1 other person.



The pacing was consistent.Wow, in what way? I felt the first third of the movie is so slow and plodding, and then turned disposable by act 2 (which is also somewhat slow).


There was one big problem with the story though. The hero Sam, by virtue of being a hero is supposed to be challenged and learn something by the time the final actís outcome is decided. At the beginning of the story Sam is very narcissistic, cocky, a typical teenager who wants to rock the girlís world. Moving into the second act he faces challenges in which his true character comes out. So far so good, Sam meets the criteria for a hero. But by the final act I didnít think he learned anything. He didnít sacrifice anything. **SPOILER**He ďdecidesĒ to shove the all spark into Megatron instead of Optimus. Well duh. But how is crippling Megatron a challenge to Samís character. It isnít. The theme ďNo sacrifice no victoryĒ , which is repeated every twenty minutes so that we donít forget falls flat. All the other characters learned this lesson, but Sam didnít. **END**I left the movie unconvinced Sam had changed at all. If anything Samís mother should have been endangered somehow. And when faced with the destruction of the planet or his own mother he would make the difficult choice and sacrifice his mother. Which didnít necessarily mean she had to die. Had something like that happened the story would have been wrapped in a nice neat bow. Sam would have learned and tested his true inner character. I would have come away from the movie knowing what was really important to Sam.That's a good thematic point, they shoved that "No sacrifice, no victory" thing down our throats but without showing any significant sacrifice for the character, not even the loss of Bumblebee.



I saw a making-of special on HBO, which cemented my decision to not spend money to see this.

Honestly, I'm not asking Michael Bay to learn every tech-spec score and know the motto of every ActionMaster. But when the director of the film continually refers to a character named "Scorponax," it shows he didn't see it necessary to do the minimal research into the property.But he claims that after going to Hasbro headquarters, he became in 1 day the world's biggest Transformers fan. :rolleyes:



So... he simply mispronounced the name of an incredibly minor character in the film a few times in a making-of special, and suddenly he clearly has no respect for the characters or the property. Wow. That's a seriously major nitpick. Me thinks you have no desire to even try to like the film. And are just looking for any possible reasons to hate it.And here I thought the proof that he shows no respect for the characters or property was the fact that he insisted the movie be as unrelated to the characters and property as possible, the franchise is represented only barely by the characters' names, and the characters themselves have little to do with the real versions - the movie has so little to do with Transformers that you can literally take out the characters and the barely-used transformation gimmicks and the movie loses nothing.



But I wish Chux would trust us on this (and JT, too - perhaps seeing the movie when he is well-rested and the theaters have emptied a little?)What are you talking about? Why should he trust you? You haven't actually shown him any REAL reasons to do so. I had free time on opening day and it was convenient and CHEAP so I decided to give it a shot, and I was absolutely steered wrong by the positive early reviews.


However, the positive audience response to the film, curiously be all ages of film-goers, is encouraging. I heard from my uncle that it is earning a storm at the box office, too.As did Bad Boys, The Rock, Armageddon, Pearl Harbor, Rush Hour, Rush Hour 2, X-men 3, and plenty other bad movies. Box Office means nothing, if it were true to the quality of a movie, Star Trek: First Contact would have made well over $150 mil instead of the pittance it took.


I've listened to conversations upon leaving with people asking "When can we buy the 2008 Concept Camaro?" as if it will transform when they get one. I know GM pushed their presence hardcore, but if that is the reaction to the Autobots, I think in the VERY short term, they ARE going to make some sales!

(I heard people liking the Top Kick and Solstace, too. Jazz got a cheer when he spied the car in the showroom and scanned it for his Alt-mode).Disgusting. I had kind of toned out the claims that this was a giant GM ad before, but I guess it's true, sucks. And the Pontiac Solstice was a great-lookin' car before this movie came out.



That Vern review that JT posted is really making me question whether I really want to watch this movie or not.

Those of us that did enjoy it, i hope it's not a case where we're giving it a "free pass" just because it bears the Transformer name?

It just occurred to me today that this is probably a lot of people's first exposure to Transformers and how utterly sad of a situation that is.I would suggest giving it a chance if it's convenient and cheap if you are interested in making a complete decision on the movie's quality, that's why I went. Figgy, you are close enough to the Vista that a matinee would work out. But I suspect you'll dislike the movie, I know I did, and Vern's review is pretty solid - he even calls out Harry's review for being indecisive. IMO, if you see this movie and walk out not knowing how you feel, it's probably a bad movie and something has fooled you into undermining your own opinion feeling as such, convincing you that there must have been something else in there that must have made it work out.



just got back from seeing Transformers, and i'm completely stumped as to how Trans-fans enjoyed this. i can see a regular movie goer slightly enjoying the jokes, action and CGI, but when a story about a boy and his car turns into a boy with his car, military, girl, hackers, dog, and the worst acting i've seen from John Turturro(can't blame him, the script was horrible), i fail to see whats left that this movie can fall back on. Peter Cullen as Prime is the only redeeming factor.Yeah, that's pretty much how I felt as well.


the fight scenes in this movie were very short. they built up the Bonecrusher/Prime fight so much, and then, when it finally happens in all it's glory on the big screen, all i see is a pile of scrap metal crunching together and ending before it even gets interesting. the trailers showed the whole fight, except for the end, which was to abrupt. same goes for the Bumblebee/Barricade fight, or lack of.TOTALLY! The Bumblebee/Barricade battle was especially disappointing since they built it up in the movie to look like an awesome chase and fight, then gave us a short chase and no fight scene. Even from just the "it's just an action movie" perspective that part sucked so bad - hinting at what it refused to deliver upon.


Frenzy. what can i say about this useless robot. annoying noises(which no one seems to hear), gives the finger, and was a late entry into the film since Soundwave was cut. kinda happy about that though, as from what Don Murphy said, Soundwave was going to be a disc player that had discs that changed into Ravage, Laserbeak and so on.Soundwave wasn't cut exactly, they made this character in the movie intending to be Soundwave, then someone stepped in and said it was so untrue to the character that it had to be renamed.


this movie should have only been 2 hours at the most. to many unneeded scenes. the backyard scene went on far to long, and added nothing to the Autobots or the human charcters, other than making them utter jokes back and fourth. shame the neighbors didn't hear the Autobots walking around or talking with each other, or feel their foot steps as they walked around.
how does nobody notice walking robots?Yeah, the first act is totally disposable, and the first big Autobot scene is them being pointlessly impatient and blowing their covers walking around the back yard while the kid looks for something without somehow looking first in the place he likely always leaves it. But at least none of the neighbors noticed robots the size of buildings dilly-dallying around outside. :rolleyes:



"Why if he's some kind of super-advanced robot does he change back into this POS old Camaro?"

SCREEEEEECH!

"I think you ****ed him off."OH MY GOD! That was so annoying, it's a f***ing disguise, anybody could figure that out!!! It was just a bad excuse to pimp the new '08 Camaro - which made NO sense either, TFs can change their disguise in the blink of an eye even though it's a different size and shape and wheelbase?!? And what kind of stupid Herbie the Love Bug-wannabe crap is Bumblebee losing his cool, leaving the important human exposed while he goes and changes clothes?!?


And we asked the question about the robots hiding in the backyard to Sam's house - why don't they just transform. They do, but their alt modes (Ratchet's, Ironhide's, and Prime's) are so large that even that doesn't hide them well: [Sam]: "Guys! This is not a truck stop!"That made NO sense, the Transformers are masters of disguise but they can't have enough patience to wait in the alley out back for 2 minutes after searching millennia for this clue and immediately do everything they can to blow their cover? COME ON! They would have just sent a scout to watch over in case something went wrong.


But I think it's a good thing when you can quote the movie after only seeing it the first couple of times.

"One shall stand and one shall fall!"

"Autobots: Roll out!"

"Decepticons: Attack!"

"You've failed me again, Starscream!"

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

OK, granted the 5 quotes above have been said with heart for 20+ years, but it was nice to hear them again.I think it's funny that you accuse folks like me of disliking the movie based on our preconceived notions and then part of your evidence for liking it is ONLY based on your preconceived notions. "You've failed me again Starscream" was so out of place that the audience I was with started murmuring about what he might have been talking about. I chalked it up to Megatron being a blithering idiot after his first comment when being defrosted was the oh-so-clever "I am Megatron!".


I only wish the fight sequences were clearer as to what was happening. Also I'm reading on TFW2005's boards that either:

1) Barricade was killed by Optimus Prime but it was cut...
2) Barricade was shot by Ironhide during the street battle, but it's hard to see
3) Barricade lived because he's going to be in the sequel, and that's why his death was cutSo now you have 2 complaints right there. And Barricade's disappearance, the reason around it behind-the-scenes matters not because in the movie he just says he's going to show up, he's on the freeway behind Optimus, then he disappears - it's sloppy and lazy storytelling.


Decepticons:

Megatron - you know he'll be back
Starscream - left earth to get reinforcements
Scorponok - would seem to still be alive and missing in the desert, tail-less.
Frenzy - would seem to be either dead or repairing himself
Barricade - see above - I don't know
Brawl - dead, dead, dead - killed by BumbleBee being towed by Mikaela mostly
Blackout - dead, dead, dead - killed by the soldiers
Bonecrusher - dead, really over-killed by Optimus Prime! (the audience cheered!)


Autobots:

Jazz - didn't live long to really do much
Ratchet - covered Sam, but what else did he accomplish?
Ironhide - might have killed Barricade, covered Sam
Optimus Prime - took out BoneCrusher, fought Megatron hardcore
BumbleBee - protected Sam, had lots of fights, wounded, still fought Brawl!*All true (except Prime fighting hardcore, that was way too tepid and barely anything to see), and all seem to point to there not being much for the Transformers to do in this movie. But I forgot, I'm wrong for disliking it. :confused: And if Prime and Megs and Bumblebee are so damn great at taking out their robot enemies so easily without even having to fire a shot, why bother with the weapons and how has anybody survived this war this long???



Any "mindless popcorn flick" where you actually have to scour the 'webs after two viewings just to make some sense of it sound like an abject failure... I honestly believe that Bay has embedded some kind of Alpha waves into the thing, to make folks feel euphoric and confused, kinda like a movie version of MDMA or somethingYES! I totally agree, I cannot figure out why this keeps happening with Bay's films, but ESPECIALLY this one.



So basically they remake Star Wars but Darth Vader is barely in it. They don't put the Death Star in it because it doesn't make sense to the new director that a space station could destroy an entire planet. Han Solo is renamed Henry beacause Han just doesn't sound like the right name for the main character to the director. Oh, and we're told the movie is really about how Owen and Beru relate to the larger struggle because we need to see it through their eyes.

Have any of you heard Kevin Smith describe what someone wanted the new Superman to be? No costume, no flying, and in the third act Superman was to fight a giant spider. To me this is like that movie got made. I think Superman Returns had problems, but at least Singer had a real reverence for the material. Bay just wants to remake Transformers as he thinks it should be. I wonder if you would all defend flightless Superman in a different costume because you all love Superman so much.

I have never seen a movie in which every positive review disparages it and then gives it a positive review the way this one is.Excellent points, and that Kevin Smith one is tops. The difference here is that it is Bay and not the studio who demanded all these changes, because it is Bay who didn't want to make a Transformers movie, he wanted to make a alien invasion/giant robot flick that would get him a piece of a family franchise.



It seems if you write a damned novel of every tedious problem you had with the movie and even add in a paragraph or eight about whether or not you had gas that day or whether or not it was raining or your parents happen to provide you enough nurturing, then you legitimately hated the movie and have justified the prejudice of those that haven't seen the movie.

But if you simply say, "I liked it" and simply make a few comments that do not meet the thirty thousand word requirement for opinion validation, you're a fan boy and no one understands why you like it. For those of us who didn't hate it, we might pad out our novel with talk about how we were having a really good hair day, or how we like that certain expression that John Voight gives at 34:12:23, how we like the placement of the scuff on the back right quarter panel on Bumblebee, how the cute girl at the concession stand smiled at us, how we've seen every movie that the Best Boy Grip did, so we have significant points to make about his work. But whatever you do, don't point out any places you thought the movie needed work, because those points indicate you hated it and are letting the movie ride on it's name. The haters were sure not to confuse the issue with places the movie did okay, and neither should we confuse the issue.I see an awful lot of folks who didn't like it able to point out solid, large reasons why it didn't work, yet I don't see folks who liked it pointing out large, solid reasons why it did. That speaks volumes too. And let me assure you, it works both ways, if I come in here and just say "it was a terrible movie" I'm going to get blasted for not backing up my statement with solid evidence why - it just so happens this movie is so full of holes and sloppily-made that it seems those complaints are novel-sized.



In fact, given the 'No Mass Shifting' rule that was imposed for the movie... I'm glad he's not. It wouldn't have been respectful to his character to have him as a 'Mini-Con' sized Robot. And given that Bay and the studio respected fans enough to change the character of Soundwave in the movie to Frenzy because he wasn't close enough to the classic G1 Soundwave to please the classic fans, it seems they have a lot more care and respect for the characters and universe than people like to admit.You make it sound like Bay respected fans enough to do this, he did so only at the insistence of others who knew better, he was solid with the idea until someone up the food chain pointed out how bad it was, he didn't change it on his own. And as for "no mass shifting", tell that to the Allspark, tell that to Frenzy's head, tell that to Bumblebee's alt mode.



-Bumblebee talked and is a VW bug(but i guess we can blame VW for not wanting to be a part of the movie)That's no excuse for Bay turning Bumblebee into a Camaro, nor does it excuse the writers turning the character into a totally different character.



I agree. "Brothers in the AllSpark" I guess.Good thing you can assume that despite there being nothing in the movie to back it up, everybody should see it that way because all the evidence points to it, right?


The human characters were excellent and the story never slowed down when the movie focused on them. In what way is that at all true?


Droid, they made Blackout devoted to Megatron the way Soundwave was.I don't believe this was shown.


And Blackout released Scorponok the way Soundwave releases his symbiot tapes.That was my favorite part of G1, when Soundwave would be shooting bullets at people and simultaneously out his back would fall another robot. :lipsrsealed:

I will agree with you that mass-shifting is not absolutely required, but at the same time, the way the producers presented the concept was "you're stupid for liking that, it makes no sense, idiot fans!" and then they go and use it anyway when it's convenient for them, so that put a bad vibe on the whole issue.


UPDATE: It's rumored that on the DVD print, "Devastator" is being changed to Brawl in the subtitles. It was a mistake that's being corrected. The toy is labled right. If true, it brings hopes for the Constructicon fans, as well.That's pretty weird because Orci confirmed it was in there on purpose, an easter egg for later, he called it, and not an accident.



What bugged me the most is, because Bay decided to ditch the old "blocky" look for the characters in favor of what we got, it made it harder to tell what part of what character we were looking at. The fight scenes especially suffered from this. With all of the small details and moving parts on each robot, it was hard to tell what was going on during the fight sequences. It seemed to turn into a giant mass of metal moving around quickly, too fast for the eyes to make out what was there.

I know many people have claimed the blocky look would have looked horrible on screen, but I have a feeling it would have been much better and more pleasing to the eyes than people think. These transformers looked great when standing still, but otherwise were very difficult to look at.Excellent point, and while I think the classic toy look wouldn't work as-is, it doesn't work in the toy line now either as-is so the concept is moot anyway. There's been plenty of happy mediums long since, including 20th Anniversary Optimus Prime, Alternators, TF:Classics, and much much more. Bay claims his way is the only way and tells us we're stupid for thinking otherwise only because of his ego - his robots looked just terrible much of the time, and made no more sense than any other concept with all those exposed parts and thin joints.



I agree completely. They could have made the "blocky" look work, they just didn't want to. The overly complex designs combined with Michael Bay's spastic directing style made for very confusing and underwhelming battle sequences. Does he realize that they do make mounts for cameras so it is possible to hold them steady on your subject? I hated the way main characters were always falling out of the picture or getting obscured by some random lens flare because no one could hold the cameras still for two seconds.:mad: Plus, they always seemed to zoom in too close to the robots when they were transforming, so you never really got a good feel for the characters.So true, Bay is addicted to handheld and over-the-top angles for no reason at all, not for any emotive cinematic language, that's for sure. And everything has to slomo, even when it's unimportant or makes no visual sense at all.


With a more capable director, this movie could have been great... someone who doesn't think that having his actors scream all of their lines at the top of their lungs equals good acting.

Also..... why was it so important to Bumblebee, a giant robot from another planet, that the kid scored with the hot chick?:confused:So true! It was totally out of left field, they put it in there for no reason, they built no relationship up for it and just let it drive that part of the plot until it got main character and unnecessary girl character to act 2.



The Autobots wanted the glasses and Sam wanted to sell them for a car so he could score a chick.

BumbleBee was just trying to give Sam something he ultimately wanted in trade.

BumbleBee did what he did out of necessity to get close to Sam to get the glasses to help him locate the AllSpark.Yeah, good thing they didn't explain that anywhere, that type of characterization might have slowed the first act down... oh wait.

And heaven forbid Bumblebee simply buy the glasses with the robot web-powers these TFs all have, or explain it to Sam and just ask him. Oh right, then the movie would have been over early because it made sense instead. And before you say "Bumblebee couldn't talk" he was able to store up audio data he got from radio signals including the television band, he should have been able to piece that into a real language but the writers were too stupid or lazy.


If you think about it, BumbleBee also "took Sam's car away from him," as he and his father paid $4,000 for something that wasn't even a car.This is true, but how exactly did Bobby Bolivia sell a car that he had no papers for? And keep in mind, this is supposed to be a "realistic" movie according to its helmer.


I have a friend that swears that was still "TV talk" and not BumbleBee's actual voice, but I don't think so. I think contact with the AllSpark healed him to a great degree (well Ratchet had to re-do his legs after Starscream's attack).Uh... huh. No, it wasn't TV talk, he asks permission to speak and then asks to stay with Sam. The Allspark healed him, and they said this where? And if it healed his voice, why not his legs, or Jazz?



They learned English from the internet? What the f**k? What about Megatron?
Did they have the internet 75 years ago?AHAHAHA! I hadn't thought about that one, good call, Megs is frozen in the ice for thousands of years, then only his navigations systems are unfrozen 110 years ago, so where does "I AM MEGATRON!" come from the second he defrosts??? Language wasn't even used that way if he landed that long ago, the conjugation would have been something more like "I, Megatron!".



I wouldn't say it was that bad. One thing I was wondering about though. Why did Sam have to run up to the top of that building? It seems like it would have been easier for one of the bots to carry him up, or at least get him to the building.Because it was in an area the choppers could land. But you're right, why didn't one of the bots go with Sam and protect the VERY IMPORTANT OBJECT, much less get him to the top of the building? And why even go to the city at all? There's huge desert areas to hide in plus several armed military bases closer to the dam that make more sense than going to LA.

JediTricks
07-08-2007, 11:55 PM
I was originally going to spare you guys my more in-depth complaints about the movie, but someone on another board said my small explanation of why I didn't like it wasn't enough, and I suspect the same will end up here, so I'll just make this plop it down now since my other post just now was already hilariously-long from avoiding this thread for 4 extra days. :p (I didn't have time to pop in, been busy):

I hate Michael Bay and his moviemaking style, but this wasn't even a good Michael Bay film, the pacing, editing, and action were all even sloppier than usual and done with a more mechanical approach than his usual faux-artistic style. This was a bad movie as much as it was a bad Transformers movie.

Pacing is terrible, fight scenes sloppy and confused, a lot of dialogue inaudible, writing was beyond banal. There is no humanity anywhere here, not from the humans and certainly not from the hollow robots. There's too much lame, flat, and even ugly humor detracting from the characters it's pressed upon.

The movie is so full of plot holes and illogical behaviors that it stands out like a sore thumb (and that coming from someone who appreciates ID4 for what it is): why does the Allspark turn things into only evil robots; if the allspark works by turning things into sentient robots, where did the Transformers themselves come from and why weren't they either all evil or all good; how did Sam know that holding the allspark under Megatron would work the way it would on Optimus instead of just handing the guy the thing; how did nobody question the fact that there's a random CD player laying on the floor of Air Force One; how did our human hacker girl jump to the conclusion of living machines and DNA-based computers; how does extreme(ish) cold and heat affect the TFs when they fly through f'ing space's absolute zero and then blast into the atmosphere at over 3,000 degrees; how did the special forces team guess correctly that the heat of the rounds and not their specific chemical burned Scorponok; how are Bumblebee and Optimus able to defeat their foes 1-on-1 so easily yet it's a huge problem later; why and how does Megatron's navigation system come online and blast information into Sam's grampa's brain and glasses; where are all these TFs getting their hard ammo, including bots that were just brought online by the allspark; how does the allspark create life only when the plot calls for something to happen and not all the time; if sector seven is so great at reverse-engineering stuff from Megatron, why not remove his head and body parts for safety's sake; why isn't this communications blackout more a problem for anybody besides Jon Voight, and how do they overcome it so easily and all think to use the same thing despite it being a crude, on-the-fly system; why can't the Autobots just wait in the alley behind the house while Sam looks or just send BB to keep an eye and call if they're needed; why take the cube and run to Los Angeles which is full of witnesses and potential victims instead of somewhere easier to defend from or at least another military base closer and easier to build up defenses on. These aren't nitpicks, nitpicks would be "we see under Bumblebee's hood a regular engine bay that's partly empty, yet when he transforms we see his cabin and engine bay spewing parts from all those formerly-empty sections" or "how is Sam allowed to sell priceless family heirlooms?".

The Transformers themselves are largely generic, you could remove those characters and put in any aliens racing to get the McGuffin and the story would not change.

The entire first act is dull, plodding, and rendered pointless by the second and third act. Characters built up in act 1 are cast aside and turned into exposition-spewing plot-pawns and roadsigns. The schtick between Sam and Bumblebee was ripped from the first Herbie the Love Bug movie except without any of the heart or character-building which made that film a Disney classic.

Decepticons are barely anything in this movie. Blackout is way too powerful in that first scene, then later on does nothing - even that crazy tail rotor weapon doesn't get used. Brawl/Devastator stands around doing nothing for a while then shoots when it's time to be in danger again. Starscream shoots a few times and takes out other F-22s but nothing else. Megatron's gun is puny and ineffective. Megs is quickly gaining on Sam just on floor 2 of that abandoned building, yet Sam makes it up a dozen more flights of stairs before Megs gives him more grief. Barricade yells and looks scary at first but is easily defeated, then just decides not to come fight at the end.

The robots are hollow, weightless CGI until it's needed for a cheap laugh. The designs look even worse in person, and in battle they are a tangle of confusing parts that resemble nothing. The big battle scenes are quick and show so little, most of the fight exchanges are limited to a few seconds.

Beast
07-09-2007, 12:04 AM
Sorry you didn't like it JT.

By the way, for those who follow such things. It's managed to recoup it's it's entire production budget of $150 Million already since opening day. Nice. :D

General_Grievous
07-09-2007, 12:08 AM
re: Blackout's devotion to Megatron



I don't believe this was shown.


When the Decepticons were about to regroup at Hoover Dam and their names were stated in subtitles, Blackout says something like "Blackout en route--All hail Megatron."

JediTricks
07-09-2007, 12:26 AM
re: Blackout's devotion to Megatron



When the Decepticons were about to regroup at Hoover Dam and their names were stated in subtitles, Blackout says something like "Blackout en route--All hail Megatron."
That's pretty thin though. You wouldn't say a generic grunt soldier was heavily devoted to Hitler just because he utters a "Heil Hitler", would you?

2-1B
07-09-2007, 12:38 AM
Jim Jam can confirm this because I burst out laughing at this point (and not in a good way), but I believe the moment the movie jumped the shark for me was when the cop car turned into a robot and started screaming at Sam...it was so ridiculous, goofy, and over the top that I had to laugh. lol

Still...I kinda liked this movie. Odd.

Mad Slanted Powers
07-09-2007, 01:52 AM
Not knowing anything about the cartoon, how did they explain all of these sorts of things on there? Did it always make sense?

I guess you can just treat the movie like many Star Wars fans treat EU (and often the prequels). You can say it's bad, that it's not canon and choose to ignore it. Actually, from what I gather, it is a different origin story than the cartoon, so that already makes it something entirely new. In that sense, it's no different than all the remakes of Superman and Batman and other super heroes. Lois & Clark contradicted stuff that came before, and Smallville contradicted Lois & Clark, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy them both.

I'm not saying that it I loved it or think it is a great movie. I'm just saying that I was entertained for a couple hours, and it doesn't take a masterpiece to do that. Remember, I'm someone who thinks The Phantom Menace is great. Transformers is nowhere near as good as that, but I still managed to enjoy the movie.

Tycho
07-09-2007, 03:29 AM
This movie was awesome! It had things blowing up, car chases, slow motion shots of people or robots diving, rolling, and coming up shooting. It had air strikes, sexy girls, comedy, shock-value action like Megatron ripping Jazz in half, classic character lines for which we're nostalgic for - just about everything I hoped for in a Transformers movie.

The audiences I saw this picture (twice now) with loved it and I am going back to see it some more! This has been my favorite movie since Flyboys or Revenge of the Sith (Spider-Man 3 ranks pretty close, but is not quite there, and Pirates 3 did not top the original POTC, which was the best Pirate movie in my view).

But I loved the Transformers and cannot wait to see more of this franchise.

I need to answer JediTricks' questions now.

Tycho
07-09-2007, 03:49 AM
First off, Tycho, you're nuts, the Witwicky family is driving a super-expensive classic British sports car and they live in a $1.5 million-plus home in Pasadena - that's not middle class.

Maybe that's why he can only afford to spend $2,000 (added to Sam's $2,000) on a first car for his son. Plus he's teaching him "responsibility."


I don't hear about you watching a lot of Cartoon Network's Ed, Edd, & Eddie, or copious amounts of any other cheap stupid crap, so why is it different because it's TF?

I have an emotional attachment to Optimus Prime.


Would it be appropriate for Obi-Wan to slip face-down in the mud during the final battle of ROTS while trying to walk away from Anakin's burning body?

Actually that would have been so funny. Obi-Wan could have said something like "this is turning out to be a really bad day."


There was no such mention in the film of it being for Starscream. Megs had been frozen for thousands of years, not just 1,000.

Transformers experience the passage of time differently than we do - but that does lend itself to begging the question about why Optimus Prime is so impatient for Sam to find the glasses when they're at the house in the backyard.


Why do you keep blaming Roberto Orci as if he didn't work with his partner Alex Kurtzman on the screenplay, and both of them wrote based on John Rogers' script and what Michael Bay told them he wanted. By the way, everybody mentioned by name in this paragraph is an infamous hollywood hack, how funny is that?

Roberto Orci is responsible for Star Trek's return. How confident are you in that? It is my understanding that a story is written, then a script drafted, then the project sold to producers who'll invest in it and a studio comes on line to help or at least distribute it, then negotiations come up to get the director. I'm sure it could happen another way - like Paramount contacts James Cameron and asks him if he'll do a GI Joe movie. He says yes. Then they use his name to help them sell the project to the other investing producers: "It's going to be a James Cameron movie." But from my understanding, this was green-lit and then they found Michael Bay who was looking for a family film franchise and also wanted to do an alien invasion movie. So by that point, they had Orci's work to use to procure Michael Bay's interest and he latched on to "the boy and his car" concept. But when I refer to Orci, I am generalizing for Kurtzman and Rogers, not really being aware of the last name. But I'm acutely aware that Orci is working on Star Trek, another of my beloved franchises. (Will Scotty crack a masturbation joke: "Captain I canna' hold it any longer!" ?) and as I understood it, this was written before Michael Bay was brought on board. He had a choice as to whether to make the movie, but he didn't write it.

Hey, I gotta go to sleep. More on this tomorrow. I barely scratched the surface of all I wanted to say.

plasticfetish
07-09-2007, 05:40 AM
Saw the film Saturday night...

...it was so ridiculous, goofy, and over the top that I had to laugh. lol Still...I kinda liked this movie. Odd.Its saving grace is that it manages to take that over-the-top silliness from the original cartoon, and make it work on the big screen.

I didn't expect much from this film, but I ended up really enjoying it. My 9 year old son has seen it twice now (his grandparents took him also), and he loved it. Picking a movie like this apart seems absurd to me, given that if you really think about it, the entire Transformers concept is so silly in many ways, and dependent on suspension of disbelief.

I was in High school when the G1 cartoons came out. Honestly, at the time I thought they were idiotic, but I had a younger brother that was in love with them, so I understood and appreciated the campy nature of the whole thing.

With this movie, I wasn't sure if it would be possible to blend that campy, goofy, cartoon style with the kind of modern CG film aesthetic that we've all become accustomed to. What we got was something that's fun to watch if you're willing to honestly admit that the subject matter itself is a little "flawed." Big talking robot cars from another planet are cool, but... they are big talking robot cars from another planet. ;)

Mad Slanted Powers
07-09-2007, 10:19 AM
I was in High school when the G1 cartoons came out. Honestly, at the time I thought they were idiotic, but I had a younger brother that was in love with them, so I understood and appreciated the campy nature of the whole thing.

With this movie, I wasn't sure if it would be possible to blend that campy, goofy, cartoon style with the kind of modern CG film aesthetic that we've all become accustomed to. What we got was something that's fun to watch if you're willing to honestly admit that the subject matter itself is a little "flawed." Big talking robot cars from another planet are cool, but... they are big talking robot cars from another planet. ;)That's exactly my thought. Remember the MST3K theme.

figrin bran
07-09-2007, 11:51 AM
I would suggest giving it a chance if it's convenient and cheap if you are interested in making a complete decision on the movie's quality, that's why I went. Figgy, you are close enough to the Vista that a matinee would work out. But I suspect you'll dislike the movie, I know I did, and Vern's review is pretty solid - he even calls out Harry's review for being indecisive. IMO, if you see this movie and walk out not knowing how you feel, it's probably a bad movie and something has fooled you into undermining your own opinion feeling as such, convincing you that there must have been something else in there that must have made it work out.



I'll probably go see it at the Vista as I could just walk over there.

Droid
07-09-2007, 08:53 PM
So let me get this straight, Bumblebee had to ask for permission to speak? From whom? Prime? That bothers me quite a bit actually. So are the Autobots a pretty strict military structure now? Bumblebee would have been out of line just speaking? And from what I understand he couldn't "talk" the whole movie, but when he finally can, he has to request the privilege?

plasticfetish
07-09-2007, 10:10 PM
Remember the MST3K theme.If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts...

Tycho
07-09-2007, 10:56 PM
So let me get this straight, Bumblebee had to ask for permission to speak? From whom? Prime? That bothers me quite a bit actually. So are the Autobots a pretty strict military structure now? Bumblebee would have been out of line just speaking? And from what I understand he couldn't "talk" the whole movie, but when he finally can, he has to request the privilege?

I dunno. I think that was a hokey way of making a big deal of him getting his voice back.

My friend swears it's not his voice, but some more movie / TV clips strung together that helps him say he wants to "stay with the boy," etc. - and those lines of dialogue are a John Wayne clip or something (but BumbleBee has a voice actor credit - which might mean someone is making those TV clips he talks in like Eric Idle did Wreck-Gar in 1986.

But none of the other Autobots requested permission to speak when they did - so whatever it was, it was not like Prime was so authoritarian.

Meanwhile, it's also been suggested that during the excitement BumbleBee didn't KNOW that he COULD speak and just tested that out.

He went from being a captive of the military, to gaining access to the AllSpark, to going immediately into battle.

Oh and I think they headed into LA because the Decepticons were already there attacking them. The city might be dangerous to the population because of the Decepticons, but it would make them harder targets than taking desert roads to other less populated military bases. They didn't know this, but BumbleBee could always scan something else and re-disguise himself if necessary (and if he got away from the Decepticons' watch for a moment to do so). The other Autobots fell in line into the military convoy as they moved out. At that point Megatron was already on the loose and Starscream had ordered the other Decepticons to join them.

The movie made a lot of sense the nitpickers are not seeing.

But anyway, the contact with the AllSpark might have already healed BumbleBee at this point.

Next the Decepticons attack the convoy and Capt. Lennox orders Sam to get the AllSpark to a rooftop location to evacuate it by air while the Autobots keep the Decepticons busy. Ironhide and Ratchet try to provide cover for Sam while he's doing this. Optimus is delayed, fighting BoneCrusher and presumably Barricade, though that was deleted since it's rumored Michael Bay wants to bring Barricade back as he was favored in test-audiences.

Anyway, BumbleBee can't help Sam because at this point (AFTER HIS CONTACT WITH THE ALLSPARK) Starscream blasts BumbleBee's legs off. So he might be able to speak, but never has contact with the AllSpark again, and it is presumably destroyed with the termination of Megatron.

The movie made sense. Gosh I want to see it again! (I'm going tomorrow with a friend that hasn't seen it yet.)

I love this movie! :thumbsup:

JediTricks
07-09-2007, 11:00 PM
I guess you can just treat the movie like many Star Wars fans treat EU (and often the prequels). You can say it's bad, that it's not canon and choose to ignore it. Actually, from what I gather, it is a different origin story than the cartoon, so that already makes it something entirely new. Yes, it's a different origin story. One could treat it like the EU, but the difference is that the movie is the main line right now, it's completely overwhelmed Transformers fandom and TF collecting, it's the main thing instead of the side thing.


This movie was awesome! It had things blowing up, car chases, slow motion shots of people or robots diving, rolling, and coming up shooting. It had air strikes, sexy girls, comedy, shock-value action like Megatron ripping Jazz in half, classic character lines for which we're nostalgic for - just about everything I hoped for in a Transformers movie.Well, you just described every Michael Bay film ever, but those are all generic "thrill ride" elements, they don't inherently make an action movie good, they're just fast food condiments and side dishes at best. And none of them were done as good even as most Michael Bay stuff. But you know what other movies are good Hollywood action blockbusters? Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indy & The Last Crusade, X-men 1 and 2, Pirates of the Caribbean, Spider-man 1 and 2, Superman 1 and 2, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Robocop, Ghostbusters, Aliens, Blade, Predator, The Matrix, Jurassic Park, Batman & Batman Begins, Back to the Future, and Die Hard - all of which aren't considered "great" cinema but they are widely considered "awesome" action flicks, and I don't believe the majority of folks who claim they liked Transformers would say it's in their league.


This has been my favorite movie since Flyboys or Revenge of the Sith (Spider-Man 3 ranks pretty close, but is not quite there, and Pirates 3 did not top the original POTC, which was the best Pirate movie in my view).I just had to quote that. :p


Maybe that's why he can only afford to spend $2,000 (added to Sam's $2,000) on a first car for his son. Plus he's teaching him "responsibility."They didn't say he could ONLY afford it, they said he'd match his kid's $2k.


I have an emotional attachment to Optimus Prime.Doesn't that mean you're predisposed to like it despite its quality then?


Actually that would have been so funny. Obi-Wan could have said something like "this is turning out to be a really bad day." I just had to quote that too. :p


Transformers experience the passage of time differently than we do - but that does lend itself to begging the question about why Optimus Prime is so impatient for Sam to find the glasses when they're at the house in the backyard.First off, Megs is offline and probably not experiencing the passage of time at all. But secondly, if Prime lives a long time, that'd make him MORE patient, not less. Please explain what you meant by that.


Roberto Orci is responsible for Star Trek's return.JJ Abrams is responsible, Orci & Kurtzman as a team have worked under Abrams on episodes of Alias and Mission Impossible III. Orci & Kurtzman's start was from working on the cheesy Kevin Sorbo "Hercules" show and its spinoffs.


How confident are you in that? Very, very little.


It is my understanding that a story is written, then a script drafted, then the project sold to producers who'll invest in it and a studio comes on line to help or at least distribute it, then negotiations come up to get the director.Not always. With TF, one of the producers bought the rights to the movie and started putting together a treatment, took it to Dreamworks and they bought it from him and brought him in as a producer, they had a script written by John Rogers, then the studio took it to another studio - Paramount - to co-produce, brought in Bay as the helmer (producer/director) who requested rewrites, I think Paramount brought in Orci & Kurtzman since they worked on The Island and Mission Impossible III, and The Island was Bay's first film for Paramount & Dreamworks, then other producers requested rewrites of rewrites, then production began under Bay's specific changes to the script.

And surprise surprise, Orci & Kurtzman are working on another JJ Abrams flick being made for Paramount (Star Trek) what a shocker. :rolleyes: Just more proof that talent means nothing as long as you know the right people. These guys do NOT have the resume to take on the mantle of Star Trek, I get the feeling if it works it'll be in spite of them rather than because.


But I'm acutely aware that Orci is working on Star Trek, another of my beloved franchises. (Will Scotty crack a masturbation joke: "Captain I canna' hold it any longer!" ?) and as I understood it, this was written before Michael Bay was brought on board. He had a choice as to whether to make the movie, but he didn't write it.That's totally ignorant and a perfect example of what I was saying before about Bay being in charge of the writing. The original joke was simply the mom saying "maybe he's mast-" and that was it, but Bay thought it'd be perfect if they ran it into the ground for 5 minutes so he had them rewrite the script to suit his needs rather than the story's.



So let me get this straight, Bumblebee had to ask for permission to speak? From whom? Prime? That bothers me quite a bit actually. So are the Autobots a pretty strict military structure now? Bumblebee would have been out of line just speaking? And from what I understand he couldn't "talk" the whole movie, but when he finally can, he has to request the privilege?Yes, exactly, he asks Prime like it's a military structure that tight even though it hadn't been the entire rest of the movie. And he does it even though before he couldn't speak. Screenwriter Roberto Orci claims it's because of Ratchet's fixit laser he shoots when we first meet Ratchet even though that's so pathetically thin it's embarrassing, then someone suggested it was the Allspark and he basically said "sure, why not that instead?" This was 2 days ago on the internet mind you, not something he had in mind.


Yes, MST3K was known for its high-quality scifi/action. :p