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TheDarthVader
06-14-2003, 12:20 AM
In an indirect way, if Yoda would not have gotten Luke's X-Wing out of the "puddle" then Luke would not have been able to go to Bespin. From ROTJ, Yoda says, "Unfortunate that you rushed to face him...that incomplete was your training...that not ready for the burden were you." I keep thinking of this possibility and many ideas go through my head.
Would Luke have killed Vader in ROTJ if he did not know that Vader was his father?
Would Leia and Chewbacca still have escaped from Bespin?
Han would never have been carbon frozen!! (testing it for Skywalker) What is up with Vader saying that he was going to freeze Luke and it would be his "journey to the Emperor" ? That is kinda odd to me. They were just going to defrost him and *ding* meet the Emperor, Luke. :confused:
Weird. I am not saying that I wish Luke would not have gone. I know his leaving was vital for the story...but I decided to bring this up because so seldom do we think about how the seemingly "small" events play a BIG role in the trilogy. :D

stillakid
06-14-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by TheDarthVader
In an indirect way, if Yoda would not have gotten Luke's X-Wing out of the "puddle" then Luke would not have been able to go to Bespin. From ROTJ, Yoda says, "Unfortunate that you rushed to face him...that incomplete was your training...that not ready for the burden were you." I keep thinking of this possibility and many ideas go through my head.
Would Luke have killed Vader in ROTJ if he did not know that Vader was his father?
Would Leia and Chewbacca still have escaped from Bespin?
Han would never have been carbon frozen!! (testing it for Skywalker) What is up with Vader saying that he was going to freeze Luke and it would be his "journey to the Emperor" ? That is kinda odd to me. They were just going to defrost him and *ding* meet the Emperor, Luke. :confused:
Weird. I am not saying that I wish Luke would not have gone. I know his leaving was vital for the story...but I decided to bring this up because so seldom do we think about how the seemingly "small" events play a BIG role in the trilogy. :D

This was a decision for Luke to make. Even Mr. Miagi allowed his young apprentice to make his own way. It isn't for the teacher to choose, rather, it is the teacher's job to guide and instruct through example. True, had Yoda not pulled the XWing from the swamp, Luke would have been stuck there until he perhaps realized the deeper teachings of the Jedi. However, I'll wager that Yoda felt that the lesson of the XWing (size matters not) was a far more vital lesson, particularly at that moment, than any future ramifications of having the ship available to fly. Without that lesson, Luke may never have truly grasped the otherwise ubiquitous words of the little green man. But by actually SEEING the lesson in a tangible way, Luke's instruction went forward by leaps and bounds.

LUKE: I...I don't believe it! :eek:
YODA: That...is why you fail. :(

Luke saw the impossible happen. And from that, it could be argued that that lesson gave him the strength and confidence to face the dragon (Vader) in his own lair (Cloud City and Death Star II). Without that lesson, Luke may have faced Vader, but he would have likely cowered into weak submission and fallen prey to the seduction.

TheDarthVader
06-14-2003, 11:45 AM
Yes, yes...nice points.

El Chuxter
06-14-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by TheDarthVader
Would Luke have killed Vader in ROTJ if he did not know that Vader was his father?

I don't think it could have gone down as it did in ROTJ if Luke had remained on Dagobah. For one thing, he wouldn't have surrendered to Vader (unless Yoda eventually told Luke the truth, as I suspect he would've done). For another, Vader would've tried at least once to turn Luke against the Emperor as he did in ESB.


Would Leia and Chewbacca still have escaped from Bespin? Han would never have been carbon frozen!! (testing it for Skywalker) What is up with Vader saying that he was going to freeze Luke and it would be his "journey to the Emperor" ? That is kinda odd to me. They were just going to defrost him and *ding* meet the Emperor, Luke. :confused:

If Vader didn't know about Yoda hanging around the swamp, I doubt he would have been able to sense Luke enough to know he was or wasn't coming. So Han still would have been carbon frozen. As for Leia and Chewie, difficult to see this is. Lando probably would have still engineered a getaway plan, but with Vader not occupied with Luke, he may have fought against them and I think Vader could've taken down at least one of the Rebels.

stillakid
06-14-2003, 10:25 PM
Vader had no idea where Luke was. It's not like Luke was sending out a constant radio beacon with his whereabouts (thus the need for the probes at the start of the film). But Vader was counting on Luke having had enough training to be able to "sense" the pain that his friends were going through. It was a long shot, and it turned out to be a good guess. But that's all it was. Vader could very well have been wrong and the lot of them would have hung around on Bespin a while longer. Palpatine's "plan" in the Prequels also is entirely dependent upon dumb-luck to keep it moving. The Sith have an uncanny knack for having things work out.

Kidhuman
06-14-2003, 11:11 PM
Well they felt Luke in ESB as a disturbance in the force. They knew he was out there. They didn't know his location, but they knew he could see or reach his freiends feelings. It was a gamble that paid off. Like above stated "dumb luck". Vader might have foreseen it with the force or even the Emperor, we don't know for sure.(at least I don't)

I don't think Leia and Chewie would have gotten away either. Without Luke popping up, Vader might have taken a different approach and made sure they were brought to his ship personally. As in any good movie timing is everything and Luke showed up at a good time.

Pendo
06-15-2003, 07:17 AM
Yoda was glad to see Luke go, he couldn't wait to get away from his whining!
When Luke returned in ROTJ, Yoda just pretended to die to get away from him :rolleyes:.

:p

PENDO!

Kidhuman
06-15-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
Yoda was glad to see Luke go, he couldn't wait to get away from his whining!
When Luke returned in ROTJ, Yoda just pretended to die to get away from him :rolleyes:.

:p

PENDO!

LMAO...wish I could dothat when people knock on my door.

stillakid
06-15-2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
Yoda was glad to see Luke go, he couldn't wait to get away from his whining!
When Luke returned in ROTJ, Yoda just pretended to die to get away from him :rolleyes:.

:p

PENDO!

Xwing takes off.

Spirit Ben wanders back into the hovel. A little set of green eyes peeks out from under the blanket.

YODA: Gone, he is?
SPIRIT BEN: Yes, finally.
YODA: Much whining in him, like his father.
SPIRIT BEN: Yes, good thing you learned that vanishing trick from the travelling magician on Zoltar VI.
YODA: heh heh heh :p

Jedi Leanne
06-20-2003, 07:06 PM
Yoda knew that Luke had to follow his own path and also, he knew that Luke would have to face Darth Vader

scruffziller
06-26-2003, 02:55 PM
Wasn't there a "WHAT IF" comic that had Luke turn to the darkside at the end of ROTJ and Leia becomes a cyborg leading what is left of the rebellion?

hamsterboy
07-18-2003, 06:39 PM
I don't think Yoda would've kept him any longer. Luke would have to find out about Vader and what better way? Yeah,Yoda could have told him but would he believe Yoda? As for Leia and Chewie,Vader keeps them until Luke comes looking for them. Why let them go? Perfect bait no matter what happens.

gtrain29
08-06-2003, 04:38 PM
Yoda and Obi-Wan believed what they were saying was 100% true. The whole reason that they were opposed to Luke leaving is because they were convinced Vader was "twisted and evil." He was no longer human and would quickly kill Luke or turn him to the dark side. Vader showed how easily he could have dispatched Luke in that quick beat-down right before the hand-severing scene.
However, Luke believed differently from his teachers in that there was still good in Vader. In this belief he was correct, and so all the awful things Yoda said about losing everything for which they had fought turned out not to be true. They had to let Luke go because the future was "cloudy" and Luke had to face his destiny on his own.
So, yes, Yoda & Obi-Wan were wrong about all those things they told Luke because they could not believe as Luke did that there could be any remaining good in Vader.