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Pendo
06-20-2003, 03:03 AM
http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/news20030619.html

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm kinda pleased that Mon will be in Ep3, it will make her appearence in ROTJ more exciting and heroic. She played Officer Wirtz in The Matrix: Reloaded, what is it with the prequels casting people who've been in the Matrix movies :rolleyes:!

PENDO!

Beast
06-20-2003, 03:16 AM
It's a really nice match, face wise. It's nice to have such a small secondary character from ROTJ, pop up in EIII. This definatly points to the fact we'll probably see young Tarkin and young Ackbar as well. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-20-2003, 08:21 AM
Sweet!! and lemme say this: man, Young Mothma is a FOX! :D

sith_killer_99
06-20-2003, 08:43 AM
what is it with the prequels casting people who've been in the Matrix movies

? :confused: ?

Who else from The Matrix/The Matrix Reloaded is/has/will be in the prequells?

BTW, I am soooo hoping that James Marsters plays the younger Tarkin.

The Overlord Returns
06-20-2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by sith_killer_99
[B
BTW, I am soooo hoping that James Marsters plays the younger Tarkin. [/B]

Please tell me you are joking.

sith_killer_99
06-20-2003, 09:30 AM
Nope, I think he'd be perfect for the part. He looks like a younger Tarkin, and he's the right age, height, build, etc.

What's wrong with James Marsters playing the part?

Pendo
06-20-2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by sith_killer_99
Who else from The Matrix/The Matrix Reloaded is/has/will be in the prequells?

Well what I know of, Matt Doran (Mouse) plays Elan Sleazebaggano, Genevieve O'Reilly (Officer Wirtz) Plays Mon Mothma, Bruce Spence (Trainman) is also in Episode III. And I heard that there were a few more minor characters out of The matrix movies in Episode II.

PENDO!

The Overlord Returns
06-20-2003, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by sith_killer_99
Nope, I think he'd be perfect for the part. He looks like a younger Tarkin, and he's the right age, height, build, etc.

What's wrong with James Marsters playing the part?

Well, lets put aside his terrible acting skills for a moment.....


Peter Cushing was born in 1913, making him 64 in ANH. Based on the fact that ep3 takes place 16 years previously......he's a bit young looking.......

Besides, he actually looks nothing like a young tarkin. I'd say Robert Carlyle or Gary Oldman are the men for the job here....they can also act.

El Chuxter
06-20-2003, 10:28 AM
Excellent casting! (I figured I saw the title of this thread on the "Recent Posts" list, so it was spoiled anyway and I'd venture into SpoilerLand for a look-see. :D) I'd initially thought Kate Winslet would be good in that role, but she's sorta faded off the map, and besides, how could Lucas work in the mandatory Kate Winslet topless scene in a Star Wars movie? :crazed:

The Overlord Returns
06-20-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by El Chuxter
Excellent casting! (I figured I saw the title of this thread on the "Recent Posts" list, so it was spoiled anyway and I'd venture into SpoilerLand for a look-see. :D) I'd initially thought Kate Winslet would be good in that role, but she's sorta faded off the map, and besides, how could Lucas work in the mandatory Kate Winslet topless scene in a Star Wars movie? :crazed:

I dunno...but if he could he would be my new personal hero.....

Darkross
06-20-2003, 11:02 AM
What about Gabrielle Byrne as Tarkin? I seem to recall seeing a possible casting pic of him...showing comparisons between him and Peter Cushing.

sith_killer_99
06-20-2003, 11:05 AM
Besides, he actually looks nothing like a young tarkin. I'd say Robert Carlyle or Gary Oldman are the men for the job here....they can also act.

I have to respectfully disagree, Marsters has the exact same sunken-skull-looking head as Peter Cushing that neither Robert Carlyle, Gary Oldman or Gabrielle Byrne have. As for the age thing, hollywood and ILM can work wonders, just look at Ian McDermid. As far as likeness goes, I think it would be the closest PT/OT match since the Owen Lars character.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-20-2003, 12:04 PM
Anyway, I think Genevieve O'Reilly is perfect for Mon Mothma, and it's cool that Mon will appear. However, I don't remember her or the train guy, in Matrix Reloaded. Could someone help me out?

jedi master sal
06-20-2003, 01:10 PM
It's Matrix Revolutions not Reloaded. We'll have to wait until November to see them on the big screen in those roles.

Tycho
06-20-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Well, lets put aside his terrible acting skills for a moment.....


Peter Cushing was born in 1913, making him 64 in ANH. Based on the fact that ep3 takes place 16 years previously......he's a bit young looking.......

Besides, he actually looks nothing like a young tarkin. I'd say Robert Carlyle or Gary Oldman are the men for the job here....they can also act.

Episode 3 is 18 years before ANH, or Luke would be 16 in ANH, and he clearly was at least 18.

We don't know Governor Tarkin's age in ANH. We do know that Obi-Wan was 56. Should Tarkin be how much older than Obi-Wan?

"Obi-Wan Kenobi? Surely he'd be dead by now. The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

Well, as I think Vader let Obi-Wan go to raise his son, knowingly (that's what keeps him loyal to the Emperor, Vader serves so long as Palpatine pledges that his son and former master remain protected, but remain out on Tatooine). However, Tarkin knows none of this.

But in the book Rogue Planet, Anakin first meets Tarkin when he is 12 years old (3 years after TPM, so Obi-Wan wouldn't even be out of his 20's - he'd be 27 actually) and Tarkin was already into his 30's, so Tarkin would be 59 at the youngest, in ANH.

So Tarkin is at least 3 years older than Obi-Wan (who will be 38 in Episode III) so Tarkin should be in his early to mid-40's, or Vader's age when we first saw him in ANH. Vader was 41 during ANH.)

In any case, it looks more and more likely that we'll see Garm Bel Ibis an EU character in Episode III.

The Rebel Alliance Triad was Corellia (Ibis) Alderaan (Organa) and Chandrilla (Mothma).

El Chuxter
06-20-2003, 02:04 PM
Y'know, folks just don't age well in Star Wars.

Perhaps Lucas should've put more thought into the ages of his characters, or when the prequel films take place.

Tycho
06-20-2003, 02:20 PM
Why?

Who looks off in the SW movies?

Tarkin could have been older than 59 in ANH. That's fine.

Dooku's doing great for 85 in AOTC.

56 year old Obi-Wan as played by 62 year old Alec Guiness was pretty close for a guy that's lived 18 years of his life in a desert wasteland. But those 6 years, plus how Alec Guiness took care of himself, versus say how older actors like Harrison Ford take care of themselves nowadays, might've stretched the believability factor. Does Obi-Wan at 56 in ANH look younger than Qui-Gon at 60 in TPM? Not really, but there was still some youth and roguish spark in Alec Guiness' eyes when the Falcon blasts out of Mos Eisley! He is old and tired of his arguments with Anakin by the time he duels his last battle with Darth Vader at the end of the movie.

Luke was 18-20 in ANH, but played by Mark when he was 26 I think. Mark looks young for his age, so I guess it's ok, but it plays off as Luke seeming to be about the same age as the 20 year old Hayden played his father in AOTC.

Carrie was right on for her age and Leia's.

Natalie at 22 or so, playing the 28 year old and pregnant Amidala may prove harder to swallow.

Harrison I believe was 29 when he played Han from ages 29-33 througout the Classic movies.

I still wonder if Han is a new kind of Clone (from a line defined to replace Jango's clones, or to fight them, as the Separatists' droids suck and I can't imagine them lasting 3-4 years in a war if they don't get better equipment). That leaves the question that if Han is a Clone, was he growth accelerated? He is at least supposed to be 3 years younger than Boba Fett, right?

Fett was not accelerated, and created about the time of TPM. Han was born 3 years after The Battle of Naboo. He was 7 when the Clone Wars began if he was not growth accelerated, and he should be 11 in Episode 3 if he gets a cameo. So he could be 5 and growth accelerated, since Clones that were 5 were shown in AOTC and they already resembled the 10 year old Boba.

That means that Han could have been created from a batch that was accelerated just after the Battle of Geonosis, when the Separatists should have learned that they weren't going to win the war with droids. But in the current comics, Han's generation wouldn't be ready yet since he'd only be 2, with growth acceleration, making him perhaps 4 during the current Clone Wars cartoon and comics.

In any case, they can turn the growth acceleration off with gene therapy or dietary change, so that way Han is not 60 in ANH.

They get him to about 10 (11 if he's naturally born) in Episode 3, and approximately 18 (to 20) years later, he is 29 (or close to 30), well 10 + 20 = 30, so Han Solo was right on.

Now can Chewbacca go from looking 204 in ROTJ nearly 20 years ago, to playing his younger self at 182 in this movie? That's the real question!

icatch9
06-20-2003, 03:24 PM
You guys are putting way to much thought into this. I don't think we can take the age of the actors as the age of the characters they play. Ian McD played the Emporer who we assume to be very old80ish, but the probally wasn't even 50. One other thing we don't know is how these characters age. We don't even know what planet Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon come from. Nor do we know where Anakin comes from, and thus where luke and Leia get there geans from. They could age very differently than we do. Moreover, Jedi could live longer than an average memeber of thier race. People in tip to shape usally live longer anyway, so it would make sense that Jedi would live longer and look younger than they really are.

Anyway, the reason why GL never puts age in his movies, is becasue it itsn't important. Besides, if Tarken is in the next movie it will probally be played by someone we've never herd of. How many unknowns does GL have to put in his movies befor you guys pick up on it :D.

The Overlord Returns
06-20-2003, 03:42 PM
Heh......

Sam Jackson
Liam Neeson
Christopher lee
Peter Cushing
James Earl Jones
Alec Guinness......

You're right.......never heard of those guys.....;)

Beast
06-20-2003, 04:38 PM
We went thru the whole James Marsters things before in this thread, and his age is fairly close. And with make-up he can easily be aged a bit. I even did the number crunching. :)

As for age, Peter Cushing was born May 26th, 1913. So he was between 61 and 63 years old in 1974-1976. James Marsters was born August 20th, 1962. So that means he's 40 years old now, and could be 41 (42 if they film his shots next August) by the time his scenes are filmed. Add 18 years onto that, and it's 59 (60). Pretty darn close. What we need is a picture of Peter Cushing in his 40's.
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18097

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-20-2003, 05:34 PM
Han Solo a clone??? Bulls***!

Jedi Leanne
06-20-2003, 06:03 PM
I think it's great. I hope she's like a Leia character... a woman with serious spunk. How cool would it be to see Mon Mothma showing some girl power? It'd make her appearance in the old trilogy even better. The fact that she fought against the dictatorial rule.

El Chuxter
06-20-2003, 06:07 PM
D'oh!
Sorry, Tycho, I completely misread your previous post. I thought you were saying Tarkin was 41 in ANH, in which case he looks bad. And I've never been a huge fan of Vader being so "young" in the classic trilogy, but it makes sense given the ravages of the Dark Side.

Tycho
06-20-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL
Han Solo a clone??? Bulls***!

Wait and see...

No spoiler confirmed or rumored tells of this, but it makes poetic sense in the way the larger story is crafted.

"No mystical energy field controls my destiny." [Ben Kenobi laughs as he realizes the irony in Han's beliefs].

"I will create a Grand Army of the Republic to counter the increasing Separatist threat." - but where will you continue to get fresh DNA? Jango is dead.

"My master will not allow the Republic to get away with this treachery!" Yeah, so what are you going to send up against Jedi and Clones? more droids? Yeah, they work...:rolleyes:

The Clone Wars? That was a bunch of Clones fighting droids and called The Clone Wars? Possibly. But why then wouldn't it be called the Techno Wars or something else? But if Clone armies faced each other and fought each other, would you call it anything else But the Clone Wars?

It's all speculation. But Stormtroopers have American accents, not British ones like Republic troopers. They didn't have to make Clones have British accents in E2. They could have had American accents, cast somebody else instead of Temura, or dubbed his voice or asked him to accent it American-style.

But they didn't. And the troops changed uniforms, too. Significance? We'll find out.

Stormtroopers are not all Clones, they can be enlisted or forcibly drafted, if they qualify. But surely the Clone program was successul for Palpatine, so a lot of those guys must still be Clones. Stormtroopers still act like professional soldiers. When they are killed on the blockade runner, you don't see them stop fighting and say "Oh no! Bill!" "Hey, I'll get you! You killed Kenny!" or "He's dead, Jim."

It's more like TK-421 was not at his post because he was busy claiming an inheritance on TK-419's boots and belt buckle.

stillakid
06-20-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Pendo
http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/news20030619.html

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm kinda pleased that Mon will be in Ep3, it will make her appearence in ROTJ more exciting and heroic. She played Officer Wirtz in The Matrix: Reloaded, what is it with the prequels casting people who've been in the Matrix movies :rolleyes:!

PENDO!

Genevieve kinda looks like a young Glen Close in the photo...but prettier. ;)

The main cast aside, the inclusion of a younger Mon Mothma is maybe the first addition to the Prequels that I look forward to. It seems to me to not be one of those gratuitous "remember this character" things that we got from Lars, Fett, and Jabba.

Tycho
06-20-2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
It seems to me to not be one of those gratuitous "remember this character" things that we got from Lars, Fett, and Jabba.

Why?

1) Owen HAD to be in the movie to explain how he ends up being Luke's uncle, what the relationship had been, and to ground the story behind Shmi's life without Anakin.

2) Fett was probably gratuitous to capitalize on Boba's popularity, but it is cool to root the glory behind the Mandalorian armor to something even as recent as the Clone Wars and the first Republic soldiers of the modern era.

3) Jabba? He's just there. It establishes that his crime family is an old fact of life on Tatooine, so that Han and Boba both fall into his hands just sort of seems kind of natural. They are the left-behind generation that was victimized by the Clone Wars. It makes sense socio-economically for their universe anyway.

Mon Mothma, Chewie, Admiral Ackbar, Governor Tarkin - all of them are not going to have any more or less detailed of part in E3, I'd think.

We just have to wait 2 years for you to get even more cynical ;)

stillakid
06-21-2003, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
Why?

1) Owen HAD to be in the movie to explain how he ends up being Luke's uncle, what the relationship had been, and to ground the story behind Shmi's life without Anakin. But Owen wasn't supposed to be Luke's uncle and I await with baited breath to see how George writes himself out of this corner. See, in the "original" background, Owen was Obi Wan's brother, which worked out well in the plausibility department when Obi needs someplace to stash the kid (backwater planet with some farmer). But now George has to explain how Obi Wan even knows about the Lars family in the first place and why he would hide Anakin's baby with "family" members. That just makes no sense at all.

And we didn't need to know anything about Schmi in the first place. Her death was a random act of violence which should have no bearing on his "anger" towards the Republic and the Jedi.

So there are two examples of characters that we really had no need for, at least in terms of knowing a lot of backstory about.


Originally posted by Tycho
2) Fett was probably gratuitous to capitalize on Boba's popularity, but it is cool to root the glory behind the Mandalorian armor to something even as recent as the Clone Wars and the first Republic soldiers of the modern era.
Fett was DEFINITELY gratituitous to capitalize on Boba's popularity. Lucas said so in one of the issue's of the Insider.

The term "mandalorian" hasn't even been brought up. We are led to believe the Jango is just a guy trying to make his way in the Universe...not a member of any large group like the Mandalorians, whoever they are.

Again, the original background for Boba Fett's armor had it being pieced together from a hodgepodge of sources including this mysterious Mandalorian army that joined in the fight to exterminate the Jedi. Had George just left it at that and expanded upon that idea, I think that the story would have had a much more epic feel to it instead of the claustraphobia of trying to tie everything together so tightly. Not everything has to have such a well-defined screen history.


Originally posted by Tycho
3) Jabba? He's just there. It establishes that his crime family is an old fact of life on Tatooine, so that Han and Boba both fall into his hands just sort of seems kind of natural. They are the left-behind generation that was victimized by the Clone Wars. It makes sense socio-economically for their universe anyway. Yes, I don't disagree with you on that. However, I personally haven't been enamored with George's choice to further ripoff DUNE by trying to make his desert planet the center of everything that happens. It is unnecessary and adds nothing to the Star Wars saga. Anakin could have come from anywhere and he should have come from anywhere other than Tatooine. That would have made Luke's hideout far more plausible.

But the above is the only reason I tossed Jabba into the original post. I would just rather have not seen Tatooine at all until ANH.


Originally posted by Tycho
Mon Mothma, Chewie, Admiral Ackbar, Governor Tarkin - all of them are not going to have any more or less detailed of part in E3, I'd think. As it should be. They should be there, but I'm not interested in seeing major set pieces with them as the focus. This is a large and interesting world that George has created. Just as we really caught only a glimpse of the bounty hunters in ESB, that same kind of mystery should extend to other B characters as well if George wishes to retain any resemblence to his original creation.


Originally posted by Tycho
We just have to wait 2 years for you to get even more cynical ;) What some people (optimists) call cynicism, I like to think of as realism, which could be construed as being pessimistic. Maybe that's so. I'm not willing to concede an inch to George when it comes to Star Wars. That's my own cross to bear. Maybe if I was a lot more forgiving I could just sit back and enjoy it for what it is. Ask me again in 20 years and maybe I'll have mellowed out a bit. ;)

Tycho
06-21-2003, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by stillakid
But Owen wasn't supposed to be Luke's uncle and I await with baited breath to see how George writes himself out of this corner. See, in the "original" background, Owen was Obi Wan's brother, which worked out well in the plausibility department when Obi needs someplace to stash the kid (backwater planet with some farmer). But now George has to explain how Obi Wan even knows about the Lars family in the first place and why he would hide Anakin's baby with "family" members. That just makes no sense at all.


I think the shocker is that Obi-Wan and Vader meet in Episode 3, after it's too late, and Anakin has been transformed, but he KNOWS HE WAS WRONG (to have turned, and fought Obi-Wan the first time). He lets Obi-Wan go and trusts him to raise his son. He makes the deal with Palpatine to let them go in exchange for his loyalty. Then when he tells Luke that he must obey his master, we know why. Palpatine has pledged no harm will come to Luke, but when he shows Vader that he'll break that pledge, Vader no longer feels bound to honor his end of the bargain.

Meanwhile, he tells Obi-Wan to go take Luke to the farm where he has family. Vader knows exactly where Luke is - THAT IS THE REASON WHY THEY NEVER CHANGED LUKE'S LAST NAME!

and Obi-Wan "should not have come back!"

I know you'll disagree with me Stillakid. You'll find some fault in all this, or if you don't, you'll just say Lucas is too dumb to set this up in that manner. But if you like it, at least compliment me on my ability to write interesting character motivations.


And we didn't need to know anything about Schmi in the first place. Her death was a random act of violence which should have no bearing on his "anger" towards the Republic and the Jedi.

So there are two examples of characters that we really had no need for, at least in terms of knowing a lot of backstory about.



The point of it all is just lost on you:

1) Anakin blames Obi-Wan and the Jedi for not allowing him to go check up on his mom. They don't let him for very logical reasons, which we can discuss if you can't figure them out, but Anakin can't figure those reasons out either, and that's part of the point. So he'll blame the Jedi rather than reason through it. He doesn't like their code and doesn't understand the reasons for their way.*

2) Anakin has a relationship with his mother that will cause him to have this grief. It is established they have great love between them and have suffered together. His rage at the Tuskens is foreshadowing his turn to the Dark Side.

3) It makes him more like us, and relates him more to us, than by making him another of the adopted by the Jedi, with less motivation than has his true character. If Obi-Wan's parents were killed, I'd assume he wouldn't lose much sleep over it, having barely known them. However, when Qui-Gon was killed, Obi-Wan was swiftly motivated to violently avenge him. Yet Obi-Wan realized, that was not the way to honor what Qui-Gon taught him, and when he thought of his master, and his master's saber, he found the Force and a way to defeat Darth Maul.

*Shmi could not have been constantly protected by the Jedi. She'd not have had the opportunity to fall in love and marry Cliegg and experience almost 10 years of freedom and happiness were she a shut-in at the Jedi Temple. She would have been a distraction to Anakin's training anyway, as well as just as much a captive in the temple, as she would be being a slave on Tatooine. Were she allowed to roam Coruscant freely, no doubt she'd be a target with greater chances of being attacked than she was taking with the Tuskens in Beggar's Canyon back home.

Jon
06-21-2003, 08:24 AM
Tycho,

I like your E3 plot ideas a lot with regrads to Vader allowing Obi Wan and Luke to go Tatooine in exchange to serve the Emperor. However, how would you then interpret the conversation between the Emperor and Vader in ESB? My thoughts are that part of the deal is that Obi Wan was not supposed to train Luke as a Jedi or else Palpatine would end the bargain and order him killed. And since Palpy always seems to forsee everything, did he know that eventually he would turn or kill Luke anyway so it was of no consequence at the time? What's your thought on this?

Tycho
06-21-2003, 05:02 PM
I agree. The conversation went as follows:

V: What is thy bidding my Master?

P: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

V: I have felt it.

P: We have a NEW enemy. Luke Skywalker. (Not like Palpatine is telling Vader, by the way, you had a son, and he's an enemy. He's BECOME an enemy, by way of leaving Tatooine and getting involved in the Rebellion).

V: Yes my Master.

P: He could destroy us.

V: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

(Like neither of them are surprised Obi-Wan was still alive up until 3 years ago, or that this situation was Vader's fault. Palpatine would have been mad he'd concealed Obi-Wan's escape from him 21 years ago, or said: "I told you back then that this would happen if you let them live!" But Palpatine had known of and agreed to Obi-Wan's escape in order to keep a leash on Vader).

P: The son of Skywalker must NOT become a Jedi (repeating something he told Vader 21 years ago?)

It's like Vader is arguing with him, but being very careful to not cross into open rebellion with him over his son. Palpatine finally reminds him of his bargain and rebukes him at the same time.

This scene is 10 times more meaningful in Empire Strikes Back in light of what we could learn from Episode 3.

Brilliant writing!

plo koon 200
06-22-2003, 12:47 AM
Interesting. I would also like to add in defense of Shmi being important is that she is part of the family and family is important to any good story. EX: The Godfather. Family always adds more important depth o a story.

Tycho
06-22-2003, 12:52 AM
Then maybe Shmi kept Anakin's real father's head in a jar! :eek:

stillakid
06-22-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
I think the shocker is that Obi-Wan and Vader meet in Episode 3, after it's too late, and Anakin has been transformed, but he KNOWS HE WAS WRONG (to have turned, and fought Obi-Wan the first time). He lets Obi-Wan go and trusts him to raise his son. He makes the deal with Palpatine to let them go in exchange for his loyalty. Then when he tells Luke that he must obey his master, we know why. Palpatine has pledged no harm will come to Luke, but when he shows Vader that he'll break that pledge, Vader no longer feels bound to honor his end of the bargain.

Meanwhile, he tells Obi-Wan to go take Luke to the farm where he has family. Vader knows exactly where Luke is - THAT IS THE REASON WHY THEY NEVER CHANGED LUKE'S LAST NAME!

and Obi-Wan "should not have come back!"

I know you'll disagree with me Stillakid. You'll find some fault in all this, or if you don't, you'll just say Lucas is too dumb to set this up in that manner. But if you like it, at least compliment me on my ability to write interesting character motivations.

:( I'm sad that you miscontrue my critique of the Prequels and George Lucas as being malicious without purpose.

In any case, your idea could work, but as you imply, it seems a bit complicated for George to write on his own. Maybe with some professional WGA help, it might all work out. I would definitely be shocked first then moderately pleased to see a twist like this occur in Episode III. I will compliment you on this conjecture. Here's to hoping! ;)


Originally posted by Tycho

The point of it all is just lost on you:

1) Anakin blames Obi-Wan and the Jedi for not allowing him to go check up on his mom. They don't let him for very logical reasons, which we can discuss if you can't figure them out, but Anakin can't figure those reasons out either, and that's part of the point. So he'll blame the Jedi rather than reason through it. He doesn't like their code and doesn't understand the reasons for their way.*

2) Anakin has a relationship with his mother that will cause him to have this grief. It is established they have great love between them and have suffered together. His rage at the Tuskens is foreshadowing his turn to the Dark Side.

3) It makes him more like us, and relates him more to us, than by making him another of the adopted by the Jedi, with less motivation than has his true character. If Obi-Wan's parents were killed, I'd assume he wouldn't lose much sleep over it, having barely known them. However, when Qui-Gon was killed, Obi-Wan was swiftly motivated to violently avenge him. Yet Obi-Wan realized, that was not the way to honor what Qui-Gon taught him, and when he thought of his master, and his master's saber, he found the Force and a way to defeat Darth Maul.

*Shmi could not have been constantly protected by the Jedi. She'd not have had the opportunity to fall in love and marry Cliegg and experience almost 10 years of freedom and happiness were she a shut-in at the Jedi Temple. She would have been a distraction to Anakin's training anyway, as well as just as much a captive in the temple, as she would be being a slave on Tatooine. Were she allowed to roam Coruscant freely, no doubt she'd be a target with greater chances of being attacked than she was taking with the Tuskens in Beggar's Canyon back home.

No, the point wasn't lost on me one bit. I recognize and fully comprehend every point you make above...I just don't buy it. Schmi's predicament was in no way caused by the Jedi and for Anakin to place blame on anyone beyond the Sandpeople is illogical. Now, if it is George's purpose to write Anakin as being illogical and that being a prime motivator for his underlying character, then fine. But it doesn't seem to be a part of the Darth Vader characteristics that we'va already witnessed, or of the logical mind that your own conjecture above places on Anakin.

Plus, who's to say that Schmi would have been holed up in the Temple? Where did that come from? Qui Gon could have freed her and then she could have gone on to find some nice Tatooine guy or go to Coruscant and get a nice apartment somewhere.

I think that a better way to handle Anakin's continued downfall would have been to ground him in logically motivated unhappiness with the state of the Republic. AOTC makes a half-hearted attempt to show this but doesn't go far enough. This should have been a far more political film, with Anakin witnessing the inaffectiveness of the Senate firsthand, then being "prodded" by Palpatine to see things his way. Instead, we are treated to a brooding, moody teenager who lashes out at Obi Wan for the thinnest of reasons.

So, enter Mon Mothma, who, hopefully, will drag the focus of the saga back to the larger political picture that the OT films concentrated on.

Tycho
06-22-2003, 03:37 PM
"You're asking me to be rational, which I know that I cannot do. Believe me, I just wish that I could wish my feelings away, but I cannot." - Anakin Skywalker.

He is a moody teenager and not reasoning rationally.

Rational thinking would be:

If Shmi was freed, to live on Tatooine, Coruscant, anywhere, she could have even been killed in a senseless traffic accident.

The Tuskens had some purpose in doing what they did to her (testing their enemies endurance, the novel implies), so there was a target group for Anakin to focus his anger on. But it wasn't rational, it was emotional, as we can see. The Jedi walk a fine line between trusting their feelings, and staying in control of them with their training and logic.

But in any case, I used the example of Shmi being a shut-in at the temple not because Anakin had considered doing this with his mom were he to rescue her from slavery, but because she could have died choking on some food in the Jedi Temple, or fell down those stairs. Accidents happen, but it is illogical for Anakin to think he can protect his mother 24/7 and still let her live her own life. There's no way.

Look (I'd say to Anakin), she fell in love, got to get married, and was freed through an act of kindness anyhow. She got to do what she wanted and lived the way she wanted to. She even got Owen to raise like the son she'd lost.

But the Tuskens had malevolence about them in doing what they did to her, so Anakin had a natural focus for his revenge. He was acting in such a way that if Shmi had been killed by a drunk driver, Anakin might have almost gone to AA meetings and slain everyone to avenge her. I exagerrate, but no, he's not rational. He's an adolescent developing into an adult with a less than adequate guide, Obi-Wan, trying to help him when he didn't want the job in the first place.

True they've become friends as they are closer in age than many Masters and Apprentices I believe, however Obi-Wan is overconfident because in his line, Dooku was only about 15 years older than Qui-Gon, so Obi-Wan thinks it will also work out for him and Anakin. But Qui-Gon wasn't the model Jedi either.

Yoda must have kept a close watch on this line, because Dooku was his, while Anakin is an enigma, or Dooku's kid, and a lot of the Council know it.

As to Anakin being interested in the political state of the galaxy? He's a Jedi and involved, but he's probably only slightly more interested in politics than most of our 19-20 year olds. I mean how many kids do you know that vote? Anakin's main interest in it all is "a girl," as would be typical for his age. But the difference between his impatience with politics and that of other kids his age is that within him lies a power he could tap to rule the universe if he wanted to - and when there's nothing else left for him to restrain that desire - he does give in to it, and we see him at the height of a Galactic Empire.

In any case, there is evidence: "Please Master: not another lecture about the economics of politics." -in Padme's apartment as the assasin droid opens a whole in the security screen.

JEDIpartner
06-23-2003, 10:38 AM
Yery pleased with the casting choise. I have been, for the most part, at least VISUALLY pleased with the casting choices for the younger versions of OT characters or the parents of OT characters. I think Genevieve O'Reilly can carry the part sufficiently. Let's hope that she isn't relegated to the cuttingroom floor a la Owen and Beru... *sigh*

The Overlord Returns
06-23-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by stillakid

Yes, I don't disagree with you on that. However, I personally haven't been enamored with George's choice to further ripoff DUNE by trying to make his desert planet the center of everything that happens. It is unnecessary and adds nothing to the Star Wars saga. Anakin could have come from anywhere and he should have come from anywhere other than Tatooine. That would have made Luke's hideout far more plausible.



I have to disagree here. I think Kenobi knows all to well that Anakin will never willingly go back to Tattooine. hell, it's even illustrated in the OT quite nicely. Vader is a pretty hands on leader. he personally gets in a ship and defends the Death Star. He personally leads the invasion on hoth, and he personally goes down to retrieve Luke. yet, he won;t go down to Tattooine to ensure that 2 droids are retrieved and not allowed to pass on their secrets? It doesn't make sense until you realize that tattooine is the one place that even darth Vader is afraid of.....


However, I will agree that the inclusion of the fetts was gratuitous and pandering to the fett fanboys. I will wait to see if something similar happens with Chewie in ep3.....

stillakid
06-23-2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
"You're asking me to be rational, which I know that I cannot do. Believe me, I just wish that I could wish my feelings away, but I cannot." - Anakin Skywalker.

He is a moody teenager and not reasoning rationally.
You're right! :) Overall, I like your conclusions, but there are some concerns and just a couple contradictions within George's own script.

We have to look at the character of Anakin, who starts as an overly sweet and innocent child and try to see EXACTLY what is causing him to (eventually) lose his own identity and become this alter-ego named Darth Vader. There are two primary causes as stated by AOTC:

1. Politics
2. Irrationality (as you note above)

Anakin makes two mentions of politics. Once, in the example you give in your post and another when frolicking with Padme on Naboo when he sounds, in fact, VERY rational, as if he has put some actual thought into it. These two instances are mutually exclusive and make little sense when spoken by the same character.

Of course, we could write this contradiction off to #2 above: the teenager is just irrational to the core. Ok, but even he recognizes and admits it more than once. The second time is in the example that you mention in the love scene with Padme and the first is when Padme is packing. Anakin is going off on Obi Wan (for no reason) when Padme admonishes him and tells him that mentors sometimes see faults that we don't see. Anakin says, "I know." Huh?! So not only does he know that he shouldn't be going off on Obi Wan, that it is unreasonable and irrational, he continues to do it anyway: "It's all Obi Wan's fault!"

Again, we can write this off to his irrational nature. A better description might be that he has erratic mood swings. Undoubtedly, any doctor on this planet would quickly diagnose him as either Bi-polar or borderline schizophrenic. There is no other conclusion.

Okay, so maybe that's Lucas's angle all along and I'm just looking at it from the wrong perspective. Vader is nothing more than a psychotic manifestation of a teenage mind in turmoil. Alright, if that's the case, then I'll admit freely that I've been wrong in my assessment. However, aside from choking a few too many officers, Vader's behavior has been anything but irrational. Hardly what we should expect from the characteristics being established by the younger Anakin. There is a strange dichotomy at work here that I'm not certain can be bridged by Episode III.

And more than that, I don't believe for a second that with all the myth and legend that George (with help from talented screenwriters, Huyck, Katz, and Kasdan) built into the original series, that he would have the cause of Anakin's fall be attributed to something so superficial as mental instability. The whims of a misguided teenager. Whatever you want to call it. No, (and this is my conjecture), I believe that Anakin's fall and Vader's creation was always meant to be caused by both A) Strong (rational) political motivations (ie, Anakin didn't believe in the Republic) and B) the clever manipulations of such thoughts by someone who was purely evil. See, while Palpatine's motivations were based on his selfish desire for ultimate power, I think that we see in Vader the desire for a system of government that works. In the Prequels, George is (trying to) show how ineffective the government is and, more importantly, Anakin's reaction to it. There is far too little of this story thread in the Prequels as it should be the primary motivator for Anakin's downfall. Instead, we are being treated to a display of random outbursts directed at random people at random moments.

Back to specifics for just a moment, Anakin's main sources of turmoil are coming from:

A) Obi Wan
B) Schmi
C) Padme

He blames Obi Wan for "holding him back." Okay, I'll go with this one. Palpatine wisely picks up on this and uses it to seduce a new apprentice. However, Anakin picks up this torch at some very innappropriate moments throughout the story. It's as if George knew that he had to get the idea out somewhere but had no idea where to work it in logically. This leads to the continued painting of Anakin as being very erratic and irrational. It would one thing if there was a scene where Anakin was being sent on a mission and we see Obi Wan stop it from happening, but that's not what goes on in the movie at all. Why not?

Secondly, his mother dies. Rightfully so, he dispatches the Tusken Raiders, but then goes on to blame Obi Wan? For what reason? Ridiculous. Obi Wan was trapped on the Queen's starship twiddling his thumbs in TPM while this new guy, Qui Gon, took all of his lines. You're right. Schmi's death could have happened anywhere at all. But blaming the Jedi is a huge stretch.

Third, Padme has his hormones raging...and he is in turmoil because he wants her but also made a committment to the Jedi. Fine, but is he blaming the Jedi for this? Hey, it was his decision to become a Jedi and leave his mother. There is no one to blame for this but himself.

But, right, he is an irrational teenager...except for that nagging rational thought he did put into the political situation...and his admission that he isn't rational (which would make him rational paradoxically).

Bottom line is that this character doesn't make any sense and the line being drawn doesn't connect with the alter-ego, Darth Vader, that we have already gotten to know and love.

stillakid
06-23-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
I have to disagree here. I think Kenobi knows all to well that Anakin will never willingly go back to Tattooine. hell, it's even illustrated in the OT quite nicely. Vader is a pretty hands on leader. he personally gets in a ship and defends the Death Star. He personally leads the invasion on hoth, and he personally goes down to retrieve Luke. yet, he won;t go down to Tattooine to ensure that 2 droids are retrieved and not allowed to pass on their secrets? It doesn't make sense until you realize that tattooine is the one place that even darth Vader is afraid of.....


Hmm, interesting take on that. I buy it all except that, if this was the case, and George wanted to make a point of it, we should expect to see some kind of reaction from Vader on the Tantive IV at the very least. But we don't. It's just another planet to him.

Let's go back to 1977 for a second: I don't believe for a second that George had an inkling that Anakin was to come from Tatooine. That and we also know that Lars was Obi's brother, so we know that there have been some changes in George's mind since then. Vader didn't go down to Tatooine because he thought simply that the Princess hid the plans in the escape pod and that it was a simple retrieval mission. Nobody to hunt down. No reason to go.

In Empire, however, he has been made aware that, first, he HAS a son, and second, that his son has Jedi powers. His motivations are entirely different. He is on the hunt, both for the Falcon, that blasted ship that ruined his shot at the XWing, and his son. This time, as they say, it's personal.

And, finally, there is nothing in the Prequels to suggest that Anakin is "afraid" of Tatooine. No, he doesn't like sand and his mother is buried there. He has a step-family (all of the sudden). He knows that he can slaughter a village of Sandpeople in a single bound. And he beat his nemesis/bully, Sebulba, long before any of that. There is nothing to fear here.

The Overlord Returns
06-23-2003, 12:06 PM
Sure, but we're not really talking about a physical threat to fear, it's more of an emotional pain that would leave him unwilling to visit the planet again....I'm sure vader isn't worried about bumping into sebulba ;)

Tycho
06-23-2003, 12:17 PM
As children grow up, they learn responsibility and rationality.

In society, more than half of all the crimes, drive-by shootings, domestic cases of matricide, patricide, spousal killings, etc. are all done by people age 30 and under, or close to it. They have never thought through all the consequences of their actions, nor gained true experience with patience and riding out lifes peaks with its troughs.

They are struggling to reconcile their dreams about how life was supposed to be, with what it actually is.

Yes, he's irrational. Even his mother would have told him she accepted taking her chances with Tusken Raiders if she could live in love with Cliegg and support him building up their farm.

But Anakin wouldn't have listened to her any more than Obi-Wan if he'd seen evidence of the Raiders' activities on the frontier.

I got the distinct impression that Anakin has requested Obi-Wan take him back to Tatooine on more than one occasion and he's been refused. I also think that Anakin thinks once he is knighted, he will be allowed to just go off to the Outer Rim, free all the slaves, and do what he pleases to the Hutts, etc. We know that freeing the slaves has been his longterm goal. But the Jedi serve the Republic and a lot of the Outer Rim is not in the Republic and subject to its laws.

But just like an irrational teen that commits a crime and gets branded a felon, you pay the cost for your actions all your life. So when one learns from their mistakes and they are already this felon, they learn to be a smarter felon. What else can they be?

With his Force powers, Anakin can't just start over. He's a Jedi, and when he's not, he'll have to be a Sith. There will be no Shmi, no Padme, and no life to go back to, and he'll have crossed that line with Obi-Wan.

Irrationality is chaos so he learns to temper himself within the trap that he's made for himself out of his own choices, and he'll learn to bring a New Order out of them!

He is Darth Vader now.

stillakid
06-23-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
I got the distinct impression that Anakin has requested Obi-Wan take him back to Tatooine on more than one occasion and he's been refused.

Please elaborate.


Originally posted by Tycho
I also think that Anakin thinks once he is knighted, he will be allowed to just go off to the Outer Rim, free all the slaves, and do what he pleases to the Hutts, etc. We know that freeing the slaves has been his longterm goal. But the Jedi serve the Republic and a lot of the Outer Rim is not in the Republic and subject to its laws.


Same.

Tycho
06-23-2003, 12:46 PM
Obi-Wan says " You look tired."

"I don't sleep well.

"Because of your mother?"


He's already known about the dreams, and even if Anakin's never voiced it to him, he knows that one semi-rational step is to call Shmi or go to her and check it out that she's alright. However, that's still irrational, because the future is illusive. Anakin could phone her or visit, and she'd be alright. The Tuskens could take her after he'd checked up on her. He'd have to stay as a body guard until the danger (if there was any, so far as Obi-Wan was concerned) had passed. That's just not a Jedi's duty.


The other lines are "I dreamed I was a Jedi and came back and freed all the slaves."

"I will come back and free you, Mom. I promise!"

stillakid
06-23-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Tycho
Obi-Wan says " You look tired."

"I don't sleep well.

"Because of your mother?"
Exactly what about this exchange leads anyone to believe that Anakin is being held back from contacting his mother against his will? I don't get it.






Originally posted by Tycho
The other lines are "I dreamed I was a Jedi and came back and freed all the slaves."

"I will come back and free you, Mom. I promise!"
Okay. :) So, I suppose it was Anakin's choice to wait until he was a full-fledged Jedi before returning to free the slaves. Right? So, why should it ever be construed that he is justified in blaming the Jedi for his mothers death or anything else?

Tycho
06-23-2003, 07:46 PM
because Obi-Wan's holding him back. It's up to him (and the Council) to say when Anakin is a full-fledged Jedi Knight.

As far as Anakin being held back from contacting his mother - that he's probably / maybe not. Who knows? Even so, he's made a commitment to live with the Jedi and go on missions for the Order. And Mace said there was not enough Jedi to keep the peace during the Separatist movement. So Anakin is busy. He was on Ansion just prior to the movie, Mace said so and "The Approaching Storm" book correlates that.

Obi-Wan wants to be a Jedi Knight and serve the Force and the Republic. Just because his apprentice has dreams and wants to phone home every night and day, doesn't mean he wants to go to Tatooine and train Anakin out in back of the farm.

But like I said, the kid's conflicted. What should he do? Baby-sit his Mom until he stops having bad dreams or continue to be a Jedi. If he becomes a Knight, he could choose to sit on the farm for a while if that's his own choice, but as a Padawan he can either quit or do what Obi-Wan tells him to.

So, there you go.

stillakid
06-24-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Tycho
because Obi-Wan's holding him back. It's up to him (and the Council) to say when Anakin is a full-fledged Jedi Knight.


Originally posted by Tycho
But like I said, the kid's conflicted. What should he do? Baby-sit his Mom until he stops having bad dreams or continue to be a Jedi. If he becomes a Knight, he could choose to sit on the farm for a while if that's his own choice, but as a Padawan he can either quit or do what Obi-Wan tells him to.

So, there you go.

Okay, so you're saying that it's either Anakin leave the Jedi training for months on end or stay put? Why the extremes? Plus, Obi Wan never ever ever "held" Anakin back onscreen or even implied it. Now, had we seen Anakin say, "I'm having nightmares." Then Obi Wan says, "It's your mother again?" Anakin replies, "Yes, can I go see her?" and Obi says, "No," then maybe this line of reasoning has a chance. But Ani never asks so Obi never has the opportunity to "hold him back" from anything at all. Nobody is holding him back from anything. Nobody.

So anyway, I mean, what, it takes like a day or two for a ship to get to Tatooine? So Anakin takes a week to go check on ol' mums. Big deal. We don't even know when these so called bad dreams starting happening: before or after Schmi was taken by the Sandpeople? If it was before, then Anakin could have taken a week sabbatical to find her and warn her to be careful. He then returns to the fold. If after, he leaves Coruscant on a Sunday, gets to Mos Espa by Wednesday at the latest, finds Lars on Thursday, slaughters Sandpeople that evening, and is back to Coruscant by Saturday in time to grab a pizza and catch a flick, just like any ol' "conflicted" teen would do. Right? That's George's goal...to give us a slice of "teen" life so that we can empathize with him or something?

I don't think so. The kid is only conflicted in AOTC because George is uselessly creating him as such...and illogically so at that. Illogical for the writer (George), not for the character. Yes, Earth-bound teenagers are conflicted bundles of hormones, but is this a truly good reason for Anakin to foresake his sweet innocence to become the bastion of evil that is Darth Vader?

Not even a little bit. There should be, and has to be, more to it than that.

This is why I think that a political motivation is a far stronger reason behind Anakin's path toward turning against the Republic. And it makes more sense in the long run. So I say, bring in Mon Mothma and bring the saga back to it's political roots and leave the Dawson's Creek "conflicted teen" soap opera in the past.

Pendo
06-26-2003, 06:34 AM
I'll post this in here. There are some more casting updates here (http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/news20030626.html). Returning cast include Joel Edgerton as Owen Lars, Jay Laga'aia as Captain Typho, and Rena Owen as a Taun We.

New actors include Kee Chan as a Senator, Chantal Freer as a Handmaiden, Rebecca Jackson Mendoza as a Royal Leader, Rohan Nichol as a young Captain (hopefully not a young Captain Solo :(), Warren Owens as a Senator, Kristy Wright as a Handmaiden, and...


Originally posted by Pendo

Originally posted by sith_killer_99
Who else from The Matrix/The Matrix Reloaded is/has/will be in the prequells?

Well what I know of, Matt Doran (Mouse) plays Elan Sleazebaggano, Genevieve O'Reilly (Officer Wirtz) Plays Mon Mothma, Bruce Spence (Trainman) is also in Episode III. And I heard that there were a few more minor characters out of The matrix movies in Episode II.

PENDO!

And another Matrix star to add to the list... :rolleyes:

Christopher Kirby, who plays Mauser in Matrix 2+3, plays a Senator in Ep3 :).

PENDO!

Beast
06-26-2003, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Pendo
Rohan Nichol as a young Captain (hopefully not a young Captain Solo :()
PENDO!
Nah. He's to old for Solo by the timeline. I'm betting that it's more likely that he's going to be playing young Captain Madine. Since we have Mon Mothma, and Admiral Ackbar is rumored, may as well have ole Madine make a small apperance as well. And the face is a decent match. :)

Captain Madine? (http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/img/rohan_michael.jpg)
General Madine (http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/generalcrixmadine/img/curve.jpg)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

plo koon 200
06-26-2003, 08:47 PM
I want a young Captain Antilles. Maybe going around in a neck brace for added humour and pointless foreshadowing.

Beast
06-27-2003, 09:07 AM
Well, he's meant to resemble someone. I have a weird feeling that this may end up not being Han Solo, but Han Solo's dad. Since he does share similar features. And note that they say he only has a resemblance to a original saga character. So it's possible that that's his character, not Madine. Since they weren't casting with a perfect resemblance in mind. :)

Rohan Nichol as a starship captain. "We cast him with a nodding resemblance with a character from the original saga. This actor is a real Star Wars fan."
MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Pendo
06-28-2003, 04:24 PM
I've done a comparison pic of Rohan Nichol and some of his best comparison characters.

Of course, one of the characters on the bottom row was added for comedic purposes and posesses no resemblences to the actor what so ever... so we can safely rule General Madine out from the start :rolleyes:...

Personally I feel a "Wedge Antillies" look about him. it would be interesting to see Wedge's father. But I think it is most likely to be Solo's dad, as he could also have some interaction with Chewbacca :).

PENDO!

darth_billyjack
07-02-2003, 02:40 AM
who knows... there are alot of random captains in SW.. banaka, typhoid, antillies, derlin. he doesnt have to be someones dad. and i hope hes not. too many insane cameos by peoples relatives, the prequels are going to become some insane incestuous clusterf-,
oh i just read on another site that Ms. cleo has been cast to play lando calrissians great aunt, Captain Senator Qui-Zin-Art Boushhbagano
in a galaxy of quadrillions of sentient beings, its funny that all the important characters happen to be related...

long ago in a galaxy in the deep south

episode III
cousin trouble
uncle grandpa palpatine has dispatched
the greatest jedi and momaw nadon's nephew to the
planet hazard county on a mission to......

this just in! lucas has cast russell crowe to play a young ponda baba!!

of course!! that explains his hostility to luke in ANH, anakin once got drunk and hit on his girlfriend who is also sy snootles twin sister! he must have know that luke was his son due to that big neon sign (just out of frame in every shot) that says "lars homestead: home of famous jedi and fascist dictators son, who is a big threat to the emperor, the guy who destroys whole planets w/ his morning coffee, right in here really! SHH its a secret!"

Tycho
07-02-2003, 12:22 PM
Stillakid:

I don't think Anakin knew it would be sandpeople trouble specifically.

Cliegg Lars told him that information when he arrived there.

Meanwhile, I don't think a visit before things happened would have helped. Shmi lived on Tatooine. She knew the Sandpeople were dangerous. Life must go on though. (Heck tourists travel to the MiddleEast every day - is that safe? If you go to Europe, there's still the mafia, too).

Anyway, in a vision, Anakin had no way of predicting when something would happen to Shmi.

After it did, and the dreams probably grew more intense, then he might've been struggling with needing to go. However, as the movie said, and a novel described, the Jedi were on Ansion, far away from Tatooine, and on an important mission to prevent that world's succession.

It wasn't like he could leave if Obi-Wan would let him.

stillakid
07-02-2003, 03:08 PM
Stillakid:

I don't think Anakin knew it would be sandpeople trouble specifically.

Cliegg Lars told him that information when he arrived there.

Meanwhile, I don't think a visit before things happened would have helped. Shmi lived on Tatooine. She knew the Sandpeople were dangerous. Life must go on though. (Heck tourists travel to the MiddleEast every day - is that safe? If you go to Europe, there's still the mafia, too).

Anyway, in a vision, Anakin had no way of predicting when something would happen to Shmi.

After it did, and the dreams probably grew more intense, then he might've been struggling with needing to go. However, as the movie said, and a novel described, the Jedi were on Ansion, far away from Tatooine, and on an important mission to prevent that world's succession.

It wasn't like he could leave if Obi-Wan would let him.

I get all that, but my point is that in the movie, the topic of him being "chained" to Obi Wan's side isn't even addressed thus leaving the audience with no plausible reason to suspect that Obi Wan or any Jedi is at fault for Shmi's death as has been suggested. What we do see is a whiny teenager lashing out at Obi Wan for no apparent reason at very innappropriate times with little motivation for doing so. And the explanation offered for that is because Lucas is just tossing a "typical" teenager at us. Maybe so, but my position is that if that is indeed Lucas's intention, it was a weak motivator for much of his behavior as well as a shaky base to build his ultimate turn to evil upon.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-02-2003, 07:58 PM
That guy could be any one of those people or their relatives, hmm . . .

Back to what you said long ago Tycho - Yoda himself calls it the Clone War, so even if there are two sides of clones, they better not be related to Han, or any of the othr characters. Boba Fett, fine, Han Solo, good God no. :dead:

Pendo
07-03-2003, 03:05 AM
The latest Set Diary describes a brief scene in which C-3PO escorts several senators to seats around a table, and begins serving them drinks. One of the Senators is Mon Mothma, and apparently Genevieve O'Reilly is perfect as Mon, she sounds and looks exactly like her :D.

PENDO!

stillakid
07-03-2003, 12:53 PM
The latest Set Diary describes a brief scene in which C-3PO escorts several senators to seats around a table, and begins serving them drinks. One of the Senators is Mon Mothma, and apparently Genevieve O'Reilly is perfect as Mon, she sounds and looks exactly like her :D.

PENDO!


Does she look like she could cry at the drop of a hat? ;)