PDA

View Full Version : A darned short movie?!



Anakin2121
07-23-2003, 08:46 PM
In the latest issue of the Insider, Rick McCallum made some startling announcements. First, that EP3's script is 102 pages long (an average-length movie's script is usually clocked at 120...although, the script might also be so short because there are some huge-scale battles in the movie and Lucas doesn't provide a blow-by-blow account of them), and he also straight-out stated that Episode III will probably be the shortest movie in the series!

I can't help but wonder if this will be good or bad. For one thing, we don't exactly know just how much shorter EP3 will be. Maybe it's only five minutes shorter? I hope!
It might be a good thing -- because good and important scenes will get precedence on being put into the final cut, which reduces the chances of superfluous bullcrap scenes slipping in (like the picnic scene in Episode II).
Sure, I'd rather have a short, intense movie than a long, drawn-out, dull one, but I sure hope this won't be some 80-minute movie like Phone Booth, either.

stillakid
07-23-2003, 09:05 PM
In the latest issue of the Insider, Rick McCallum made some startling announcements. First, that EP3's script is 102 pages long (an average-length movie's script is usually clocked at 120...although, the script might also be so short because there are some huge-scale battles in the movie and Lucas doesn't provide a blow-by-blow account of them), and he also straight-out stated that Episode III will probably be the shortest movie in the series!

I can't help but wonder if this will be good or bad. For one thing, we don't exactly know just how much shorter EP3 will be. Maybe it's only five minutes shorter? I hope!
It might be a good thing -- because good and important scenes will get precedence on being put into the final cut, which reduces the chances of superfluous bullcrap scenes slipping in (like the picnic scene in Episode II).
Sure, I'd rather have a short, intense movie than a long, drawn-out, dull one, but I sure hope this won't be some 80-minute movie like Phone Booth, either.

Tough call. Frankly, AOTC was vastly improved with the cuts made for the IMAX version so it's heartening to think that maybe George got it through his head to stick to the main story this time. Also, there really isn't that much to cover in Episode III without delving into sequences filmed mainly to please over-enthusiastic fanboys (ie, seeing Anakin post-fight in some Vader getup, seeing Luke delivered to Tatooine, seeing Dagabah/Cloud City/or Alderaan for some silly OT tie-in reasons, etc.) Episode III certainly could be very much to the point and still be entertaining so long as Lucas gets some help in the script polishing department just like the old days. Won't happen, of course, but we can remain optimistic nonetheless.

plo koon 200
07-23-2003, 09:30 PM
Actually, 120 pages is long for a script nowadays. For the past five or years script size has really gone down to around 90 pages for a 2 hour which is good. A 120 page script can often times make a 3-4 hour long movie and a lot gets cut out. Trust me, I know.

hamsterboy
07-23-2003, 10:43 PM
Not sure about this. So many loose ends to be wrapped up. They've got to cover the duel between Anakin and Dooku,then the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan,the whole twins thing,and so on.If they can pull all of this off,then I guess we've been wrong about these guys all along.

Anakin2121
07-23-2003, 11:43 PM
Whoa! We don't necessarily KNOW that there will be a duel between Anakin and Dooku. The only action scenes that we're certain about are the 40-minute-long final battle of the Clone Wars at the beginning, the epic duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and the scene in which Mace Windu dies spectacularly. :D

Pendo
07-24-2003, 04:20 AM
I presonally wouldn't mind Episode III being a shorter movie. It means if you're watching all the movies in order, there won't be too long to wait until you get to the good part of the story :).

PENDO!

stillakid
07-24-2003, 09:46 AM
I presonally wouldn't mind Episode III being a shorter movie. It means if you're watching all the movies in order, there won't be too long to wait until you get to the good part of the story :).

PENDO!

Once I cut the crap out of the other two (via the newest digital technology), I-III will be even shorter! :D

hamsterboy
07-24-2003, 09:06 PM
Whoa! We don't necessarily KNOW that there will be a duel between Anakin and Dooku. The only action scenes that we're certain about are the 40-minute-long final battle of the Clone Wars at the beginning, the epic duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and the scene in which Mace Windu dies spectacularly. :D

If there is no duel between Anakin and Dooku,how else will Anakin become a Sith apprentice? Besides,what better way for Anakin to get his revenge for loosing his arm?

Jedi Clint
07-24-2003, 09:21 PM
Yeah hamsterboy, my bets are still on Anakin snuffing out Dooku.....probably during the end battle of the clone wars at the beginning of the film.

Jargo
07-29-2003, 04:05 PM
I don't see the visit to Alderaan as part of a naff OT tie-in thing. It was always planned to have Alderaan shown in the birth of the rebellion. Bail always was the guy to stick his neck pout against Palpy. Hence the reason for Alderaan biting it and the animosity between the Imperials/Vader and Alderaanian senator Leia. There are other things that are silly tie-in stuff but the whole Alderaan inclusion makes absolute sense to me. Rather that than another trip to Naboo. And I agree that there's no reason to see Dagobah either. Being told that Yoda has escaped is enough. I think the delivery of Luke to tatooine is needed for the kid audience though. Being that there's a twenty year gap between the trilogies it just makes it crystal clear to kid viewers that this is where the child went and grew up. Naff to adult viewers but not unneccesary. For me though I would have the movie go there. Not a long winded sequence but just a quick glimpse of Beru holding the child and silhouettes of Owen and Obi. Obi wandering of into the wilderness. Then obviously end on some shots of the growing Imperial forces and menacing technology.....

Toad
07-29-2003, 11:50 PM
I think it's a mistake to make Ep. III any shorter than the rest of the films. If it is, then the movie is, in my opinion, a serious cop-out by Lucas & Co. since there are way too many loose ends that need to be tied up. That might just be "fan-boy" speculation (whatever "fan-boy" means), but any storyteller knows that the giant gap between AOTC and ANH needs some serious adhesive.

Sure, they can do it all in 90 minutes, but that leaves NO room for the classic Lucas gap-fillers. It won't be a Star Wars movie without those gap-fillers.

Also, I don't think that the 102-page script length means anything. They can easily make 2 hours out of that.

Pendo
07-30-2003, 07:45 AM
I think it's a mistake to make Ep. III any shorter than the rest of the films. If it is, then the movie is, in my opinion, a serious cop-out by Lucas & Co. since there are way too many loose ends that need to be tied up. That might just be "fan-boy" speculation (whatever "fan-boy" means), but any storyteller knows that the giant gap between AOTC and ANH needs some serious adhesive.

Sure, they can do it all in 90 minutes, but that leaves NO room for the classic Lucas gap-fillers. It won't be a Star Wars movie without those gap-fillers.

Also, I don't think that the 102-page script length means anything. They can easily make 2 hours out of that.

I don't think it's deliberatly being made shorter, it will probably only fall about 5 minutes.

Plus everyone keeps saying there's too many loose ends to tie up in Episode III and George wont fit them all in, but looking at it there arent that many. We have to see how Anakin turns to Darth Vader, and how the Empire becomes, but isn't that what the film is about? So ofcoure that's gonna be sorted. What other lose ends are there? To show how Luke and Leia go off with their adoptive parents, well that will take about one sentance "Send the boy to the Lars family on Tatooine, and the other to Senator Organa". R2 and 3PO not remembering anything could be a quick scene showing them getting their memory erased, or even just another sentance "and wipe the droids."

I'm sure they'll fit all that in the movie :rolleyes:, and I really cant think of anything else that needs to be tied up :).

PENDO!

Toad
07-30-2003, 10:50 AM
I know I don't have to repeat and resurrect the documented inconsistencies between the prequels and the OT. That's what I meant by "tying up the loose ends." No, I don't hope or wish that the movie explains everything in such horrifying detail that it leaves nothing to the imagination, but some things must be touched on.

Why certain people don't remember/recognize each other and most importantly the droids is one of them, and so is the whole "disappearing act" that the Jedi perform sometimes - but not always. These are obviously just a couple. There are tons more, and Pendo hit on some so there's no need to repeat.

I do agree, though, that some could be dealt with by a simple line or two in the script - but that's kind of cheating the fans. You can't explain away an inconsistency or loose end with a line that seemingly fixes everything - that's the easy way out, and will only create more issues down the road.

Pendo
07-30-2003, 12:05 PM
Why certain people don't remember/recognize each other and most importantly the droids is one of them, and so is the whole "disappearing act" that the Jedi perform sometimes - but not always. These are obviously just a couple. There are tons more, and Pendo hit on some so there's no need to repeat.

I don't believe there are any big inconsistencies between the PT and OT. There aren't that many people who meet in the OT and PT, Obi-Wan has met R2 and Chewbacca, Vader has met 3PO and R2, Owen Lars has met 3PO. It could easily be argued that Vader recognises C-3PO in ESB, and Obi-Wan recognises R2-D2 and Chewbacca in ANH. It could also be argued, and has on many occasions, that Owen Lars does not recognise C-3PO in ANH as 3PO now looks completly different than he did 20 years earlier, and he also does not share his name with Owen in their conversation.

There aren't really any more people who've met in the PT. The droids not recognising anyone has already been resolved by George Lucas himself, that they get their memories wiped, well at least partially.

As for the Jedi disapearing act, it depends on how Lucas wants to approach it. With the Jedi getting slaughtered he could show some of the Jedi dissapearing, and some not, and work out a dialogue scene between several characters to resolve that, but again that shouldn't take too long or get in the way of the actual story.


I do agree, though, that some could be dealt with by a simple line or two in the script - but that's kind of cheating the fans. You can't explain away an inconsistency or loose end with a line that seemingly fixes everything - that's the easy way out, and will only create more issues down the road.

I disagree with that, by resolving an inconsistency with a line of dialogue will not be cheating the fans, they don't need some spectacular scene to demonstrates the loose ends to close them, I think that if it can be resolved by a simple line that wont get in the way of the story then it should be, and I don't see how it would create more issues down the road.

PENDO!

Jargo
07-30-2003, 12:56 PM
But that's forgetting the golden rule of movie making which is 'show - don't tell'. Admittedly sometimes that can be a lengthy process. But i'd rather have a non dialogue scene than a lengthy rambling monologue. TPM was too wordy and had not enough action. AOTC had too much action and scraps of dialogue thrown in like confetti. Episode three needs to have good direct dialogue and good direct action to make it a clear and succinct chapter.

Anakin2121
07-30-2003, 04:04 PM
TPM was too wordy and had not enough action. AOTC had too much action and scraps of dialogue thrown in like confetti. Episode three needs to have good direct dialogue and good direct action to make it a clear and succinct chapter.

Agreed. :) And word has it that that's actually how Episode III will be: a more personal and dramatic story, with more character and personality and, hopefully, better acting. :p

Gungan Warrior
07-30-2003, 05:51 PM
Since its the last movie will it actually be 3hrs.

Beast
07-30-2003, 06:53 PM
Nope, infact Rick McCallum said it might end up being the shortest one. Which would put it just over the 2 hour mark. I doubt that though, once is all said and done. I think we're going to see it about as long as ROTJ. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
07-31-2003, 11:32 PM
But that's forgetting the golden rule of movie making which is 'show - don't tell'. Admittedly sometimes that can be a lengthy process. But i'd rather have a non dialogue scene than a lengthy rambling monologue. TPM was too wordy and had not enough action. AOTC had too much action and scraps of dialogue thrown in like confetti. Episode three needs to have good direct dialogue and good direct action to make it a clear and succinct chapter.

From your mouth to God's ears. But then again, the precedent is: "Tell me, what are Midichlorians?" George's priorities have shifted from creating a great story through visuals to explaining everything in excrutiatingly redundant dialogue. Flat out, we don't need to see the babies delivered anywhere and more to the point, we shouldn't. The information in the original trilogy not only explains everything we need to know, it also does it in a very effective and dramatic manner which will be rendered entirely pointless and ineffective if (and when) Episode III gratuitously splashes it on the screen. That's just one example. The Anakin to Vader metamorphasis is another. Yoda's fate is another. Obi Wan's destination is another. Fully explaining some lingering question like "how do Jedi vanish and why" is one thing, but uselessly wasting screentime with facts that we already know enough about (and ruining good drama and surprise at the same time) is another. Here's to hoping George got some professional help with this one. **fingers crossed**

karinations
08-04-2003, 06:25 PM
What was cut from the IMAX AOTC?

-V-

http://www.citizenv.com

stillakid
08-04-2003, 08:07 PM
What was cut from the IMAX AOTC?

-V-

http://www.citizenv.com

Lots of stuff. I'm sure there's a thread laying around somewhere with a list. It's been too long to remember everything, but overall, the editors pretty much recognized what most of the useless crap was and excised it. Unfortunately, they weren't able to remove everything lest some strange holes become too apparent, but their efforts made the film at least 60% more watchable in my opinion. ;)

jawaboy
08-05-2003, 12:23 AM
Is longer better than shorter? Can it be that anyone can glean excitement and thrills if it's shorter? I would guess not. If it's longer, not only will it go the distance, but it will keep you coming back for more. Of course, if it's too long, it'll just leave you hoping for the climax to finally arrive. And I'd imagine your butt will be sore if its too long, which is why Rick would like to keep it short.

stillakid
08-05-2003, 12:19 PM
Is longer better than shorter? Can it be that anyone can glean excitement and thrills if it's shorter? I would guess not. If it's longer, not only will it go the distance, but it will keep you coming back for more. Of course, if it's too long, it'll just leave you hoping for the climax to finally arrive. And I'd imagine your butt will be sore if its too long, which is why Rick would like to keep it short.

When sitting down to write a story, the goal shouldn't be centered around the page count (which translates into screen time). The primary aim should be to sit down and figure out what information is necessary to get the point across. After that, it becomes a series of decisions regarding what to include, and almost more importantly, what to leave out and not shove down the audiences' throat.

No matter the length, we all know in general what events transpire between the end of Episode II and the beginning of Episode IV. The big question is will George return to his glory days and create the kind of film that he managed once upon a time, or will he continue down the darkpath which resulted in the loss of a large portion of his audience?

The Overlord Returns
08-05-2003, 12:32 PM
IMO, the first lord of the rings film could have done with about 45 minutes of film cut....making it much more enjoyable.....so longer is NOT always better....

Just a few points here....

It is NOT important to see Obi Wan with Luke on Tattooine, however it really isn't a huge deal if it is done.

Ditto for Yoda on Dagobah, however I wouldn't mind knowing what the "cave" once was, as it is clearly a manmade structure....

Seeing Vader. Seeing the suit is fine. Seeing anakin in the suit is not. Leave mystery and make fanboys happy.

I also agree with Jargo. A fine balance between dialogue and action needs to be set for this final, and in some ways most important, installment of the saga....

stillakid
08-05-2003, 03:06 PM
It is NOT important to see Obi Wan with Luke on Tattooine, however it really isn't a huge deal if it is done.....
How can it not? Seeing Obi Wan with a baby on Tatooine would quite unnecessarily give away Luke's relationship with Anakin thus absolutely annhilating any point in building any drama surrounding that relationship as it currently exists in the OT. :confused:


Ditto for Yoda on Dagobah, however I wouldn't mind knowing what the "cave" once was, as it is clearly a manmade structure........
If Lucas did the Prequels the "right" way, the only element that he couldn't successfully avoid "giving away" would in fact be Yoda. The surprise for Luke and the audience in Episode V is effectively gone anyway, but seeing Yoda on Dagobah would be just as gratuitous and useless as George's use of a Fett personae (as a nod to "fans" everywhere). It would serve no purpose to the story that needs to be told to get us to the events in Episode IV.


Seeing Vader. Seeing the suit is fine. Seeing anakin in the suit is not. Leave mystery and make fanboys happy.....
Hmm, a dark figure in life support gear mysteriously arrives in the Emperor's stead shortly (and conveniently) after Anakin seems to perish. Hmm, I wonder who it could be? :rolleyes: No, seeing any reference to Vader in Episode III will be a disaster if any sense of intrigue regarding his identity in the OT is to be left.


I also agree with Jargo. A fine balance between dialogue and action needs to be set for this final, and in some ways most important, installment of the saga....
Just like Mom used to make. ;) Well, maybe not Mom, but Huyck, Katz, and Kasdan anyway. :)

Master Plo- Koon
08-05-2003, 09:34 PM
In regards to Vader in Episode 3. I agree with you a lot. I want it to be that it seems anakin is dead, and that it will leave it a mystery still until the end of ESB.

What would be cool is if something was said between the emperor and vader along the lines such as: "Has Skywalker been destroyed." "Yes, my Master."

That way it would fit with the saying Vader betrayed and murdered you father. It doesnt have to be exactly as I would say, but something along those lines to get the point across that it seems Vader did kill anakin.

Although, it probably wont happen. But I can still dream cant I?

jedi master sal
08-06-2003, 11:16 AM
I keep saying this that a great line (even if a little cheesy) would be for Anakin to say to the Emperor (after Palpy saves him from the lava pit-or whatever the scene is)

"I am no longer Anakin Skywalker, that man is dead to me. (puts on helmet) I AM DARTH VADER"
(He could be standing away from the camera for the first line facing Palpatine, then the camera swings around as he is putting on the helmet then stops to face him when he delivers THE LINE)

Think of how pump we would be to here James Earl Jones's voice coming from the Dark Helmet again....