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Darth Jax
08-27-2003, 10:24 PM
if force lightning is usable by the Sith, why doesn't vader ever make use of it? he's always so quick with his saber, if memory serves, he even boards the blockade runner with it ignited. lucas likes the first instance of something remarkable to be memorable (starlines fading in hyperspace, obi-wan's lightsaber in the cantina) that to have vader wield it prior to ROTJ ruins the viewer's surprise when palpy shocks luke is my opinion.

2 scene's, both from ESB, could have featured it. first force lightning would have made an effective tool to torture han. the only goal in mind was mindless pain, jolts of electricity from vader would've saved the effort of the interrogation chamber. the second scene, when vader is throwing all the pieces of heavy equipment at luke. add some force lightning and you have a forerunner of yoda/dooku's duel from AOTC. yoda manages to hold his own in said duel, while luke gets his butt kicked, shows how much he has yet to grow in the force.

maul could've ended his duel with obi-wan in TPM by simply shocking him while hanging from his perch dropping him into the reactor shaft. instead he paces and taunts him with his saber and ultimately dies because he can't/won't use force lightning.

Beast
08-27-2003, 10:35 PM
I assume Vader doesn't use it, due to the unique nature of his injuries. After all, he's more machine then man at the end, so it could have endangered his own life support system, trying to manifest it. After all, Palpy's bolts majorly messed it up in Jedi.

From what we've seen, Palpatine is not that great of a teacher. Maul was personally trained by Sidious, and he failed miserably against a Padawan. Sidious had much better luck with corrupting already trained Jedi's to his side. I.E. Dooku and Anakin.

Also, the EU has said that Palpatine doesn't want to train Vader in all the Dark Side secrets, should he ever turn against him. Palpatine knows that Vader could easily be more powerful then him, if he bothered to show him everything the Dark Side held. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Exhaust Port
08-27-2003, 10:45 PM
I would agree that Vader being a man/machine would prevent him from using force lightning.

Even if he could I don't think any instance in the 3 movies would have been any better with Vader using the force lightning. In each scene I doubt Vader would have wasted the effort on the victims. He was just as capable of kicking their butt with his lightsaber or the force.

There seems to be many ways to use the force as a weapon so it's up to the fighter what method he uses. Vader seems to be a non-Force lightning sith.

stillakid
08-28-2003, 01:08 AM
if force lightning is usable by the Sith, why doesn't vader ever make use of it? he's always so quick with his saber, if memory serves, he even boards the blockade runner with it ignited. lucas likes the first instance of something remarkable to be memorable (starlines fading in hyperspace, obi-wan's lightsaber in the cantina) that to have vader wield it prior to ROTJ ruins the viewer's surprise when palpy shocks luke is my opinion.

2 scene's, both from ESB, could have featured it. first force lightning would have made an effective tool to torture han. the only goal in mind was mindless pain, jolts of electricity from vader would've saved the effort of the interrogation chamber. the second scene, when vader is throwing all the pieces of heavy equipment at luke. add some force lightning and you have a forerunner of yoda/dooku's duel from AOTC. yoda manages to hold his own in said duel, while luke gets his butt kicked, shows how much he has yet to grow in the force.

maul could've ended his duel with obi-wan in TPM by simply shocking him while hanging from his perch dropping him into the reactor shaft. instead he paces and taunts him with his saber and ultimately dies because he can't/won't use force lightning.

I like the life-support reasoning. Seems, well, reasonable.

As far as the Han and Luke questions go, I suspect that the Force Lightning is kind of a weapon of last resort sort of thing. Dooku was out to kill Yoda and Palpatine was out to kill Luke. However, Vader wasn't interested in killing Han and especially not Luke. Doing so would have defeated the purpose of each confrontation.

Maul is a different situation entirely. Yeah, why didn't he use lightning? :mad: He obviously was very skilled as a Jedi, at least in terms of acrobatic moves and fancy lightsaber swooshes. It seems reasonable that he too should have some kind of spark ability. So, yeah, maybe that after-market explanation about him not being taught works, but why do the Prequels have to constantly be explained with extraneous source material. sigh

Exhaust Port
08-28-2003, 08:17 AM
There must be some limitations on force lightning that we don't know about. Perhaps not all species can use it.

Pendo
08-28-2003, 08:21 AM
Maybe Vader couldn't use it because he was not all bad. There was still good in him, and that may have prevented him from using it :).

PENDO!

stillakid
08-28-2003, 08:56 AM
There must be some limitations on force lightning that we don't know about. Perhaps not all species can use it.


This is shocking! :crazed:

The Overlord Returns
08-28-2003, 11:31 AM
Well....looking at the three people we've seen use or control lightning...they are all incredibly powerful, and experienced in the use of the force.....could just be a VERY difficult thing to master......

hamsterboy
08-28-2003, 07:25 PM
If we go by what's been said in the EU,another reason it's not used all the time is that it drains away the users life.

Darkross
08-29-2003, 12:08 PM
Well...as any Martial Arts master will tell you...you never teach your students everything. Steven Segal even stated this in an interview once...he said that there are alot of moves that he'd never film...as it would make him and other more vulnerable. It's amazing the amount of moves one can learn from watching martial arts films.

In respect to Palpatine...why would he teach Vader how to use Force Lightning...since the whole goal of the Sith is to take an apprentice and eventually have that apprentice destroy the master and take an apprentice of their own. With the Sith so hungry for power and the Dark Side of the Force demands more of the Sith...it would be extremely hard for an apprentice / Sith Lord to resist the temptation of overthrowing their master and having full control over the ultimate power in the universe. I suspect that perhaps Sidious didn't know about Dooku's ability with Sith Lightning...but then again...maybe he did. Dooku is powerful...but not nearly as powerful as Vader or Luke...thus Sidious isn't worried about being destroyed by Dooku.

Arrogant Arse
08-29-2003, 01:18 PM
I think that it comes down to style. Whether Vader and Maul knew how to use Force Lightening or not,doesn't matter. Vader was more hands on than Palpatine/Sidious. Vader-working out "in the field" with the troops. Palpatine-Home on Coruscant, crafting things in secret, from a distance. Force lightning has a much longer range than a lightsaber and Palpatine liked to keep his hands off and be away from his foe.
Vader was not trying to kill Luke, so he probably wouldn't have used it then either.

Maul was like Vader in a way. He liked to use his lightsaber, and fight "hands on." He was egging Obi-Wan on with his light saber and was basically telling Obi-Wan "The Sith are back. We're gonna bust some heads and take some names. I just want you to know how pitiful a swordfighter you Jedi really are. Witness your undoing." Maul was out for revenge. If he wanted to just kill Obi-Wan, he would have done it sooner, and not played around with him. He wanted to make a statement He had mentioned to Sidious about revealing the Sith to the Jedi, and getting revenge. Maul wouldn't have used Force Lightning due to his own blinding anger, and lust for revenge

Palpatine would use any means necissary to get to the final goal Galactic Domination. Force lightining is just a quick and easy way to deal with problems, and move on to something else.

stillakid
08-29-2003, 02:17 PM
Well...as any Martial Arts master will tell you...you never teach your students everything. Steven Segal even stated this in an interview once...he said that there are alot of moves that he'd never film...as it would make him and other more vulnerable. It's amazing the amount of moves one can learn from watching martial arts films.

Oh yeah, there's a voice of authority on martial arts. :rolleyes: Don't be too concerned about Steven's safety. After his monks dive out of the way, he can pull one of his sidearms out (either from his shoulder holster or from his ankle holster) and blow away whoever is attacking him.

El Chuxter
08-29-2003, 03:11 PM
I just can't read the name of this thread without hearing, "Go Force Lightning!" in my head. :D

I think Maul was not fully trained (though he'd been at it since birth). Perhaps it was because Sidious took him as a baby and turned him into a Sith Apprentice that he was basically an anger-blinded bulldog. Maybe Sidious assumed (rightly so) that such a brainwashed weapon (because Maul really isn't a character when you think about it) would never betray him. In any case, had Sidious even shown Maul how to use Force lightning, he'd be too brutish to actually know when to use it.

Anakin and Dooku were both trained as Jedi, though. Dooku was a respected Master, so he probably knew just about every trick the Jedi had to teach. It makes sense that he'd learn the technique of Force lightning from Sidious, whether he was taught or figured it out on his own. (Sidious may have been more willing to teach him, since Dooku was pretty old and likely couldn't have outlived him.)

Anakin received Jedi training, and may even have been a Knight at the time he turned, but he definitely was no Master, Chosen One or not. He relies more on hand-to-hand combat, traditional long-range weapons (such as a TIE), and the infamous choking trick. A master swordsman (though with less finesse than Dooku), one of the best pilots in the galaxy. . . and with a really mysterious power that few understand. Personally, I think a guy who can choke you to death by pointing at you is scarier than a nut throwing around lightning. At least you see the lightning coming.

The two people who have used Force lightning didn't do it very openly, either. They only used it against Jedi they fully expected to kill. I think if Maul had the training and the sense, he would've used it against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

gtrain29
08-29-2003, 11:39 PM
The one time vader comes in contact with the lightning, it blows out his life support system. So it wouldn't be wise for him to use it even if he knew how. It would look funny, though, since his limbs are robotic, wouldn't the lightning shoot out from the stumps of his arms or something?
The choking technique seems to be more efficient anyway. He can use it from long range as he demonstrated with adm ossel, and it kills a lot faster than the lightning does -- look how long the emperor had to fry luke, and he still recovered from that.

Darkross
09-02-2003, 11:36 AM
Oh yeah, there's a voice of authority on martial arts. :rolleyes: Don't be too concerned about Steven's safety. After his monks dive out of the way, he can pull one of his sidearms out (either from his shoulder holster or from his ankle holster) and blow away whoever is attacking him.

True...Steven Segal is hardly an authority...but my point is still the same. I merely mentioned SS since I heard him say this in an interview and thought it was related to this thread.

Darkross
09-02-2003, 11:43 AM
The one time vader comes in contact with the lightning, it blows out his life support system. So it wouldn't be wise for him to use it even if he knew how. It would look funny, though, since his limbs are robotic, wouldn't the lightning shoot out from the stumps of his arms or something?
The choking technique seems to be more efficient anyway. He can use it from long range as he demonstrated with adm ossel, and it kills a lot faster than the lightning does -- look how long the emperor had to fry luke, and he still recovered from that.

Hold on...do not underestimate the power of the force. I don't think that if he used the force lightning that it would blow out his life support system...since it would be emitted from Vader not on him like the Emperor's lightning did in ROTJ. I believe that Vader could have used it...but had no need for it since he didn't want to kill Luke at any time and he enjoyed the close-combat approach to fighting his enemies. The second point about how long the emperor had to fry Luke is irrelevant too...since the Emperor was punishing / torturing Luke...initially...and not trying to kill him right away. From the Emperor's perspective...there is more satisfaction in having a nice long drawn out torturing death making your enemy suffer as long as possible before finally killing them. Inflicting the maximum amount of pain and suffering while still keeping their victim alive for as long as possible. The fact that the Emperor took a long time was to gloat at his victory for defeating his own destiny...that's why he screams at Vader when he throws him down the ventilation shaft.