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Tycho
09-03-2003, 06:40 PM
The Civil War movies were brought up in another thread. Glory is a great one. If I'm not mistaken, this was Denzl Washington's first movie (or first Academy Award - whatever, he's a great actor).

The movie hits the slavery issue of the Civil War dead on, since it's about a black regiment.

By the way, I've been figuring it out, the units of military division go:

United States Government (President Lincoln with a Declaration of War from Congress)

Commanding General of the Union Army: George Meade

Then there were Divisions. Several Corps made up the Divisions.

The different Corps - these were made out of all the Brigades. I wonder how many brigades made a Corp?

Brigades - were made up of Regiments. I also don't know how many Regiments made up a Brigade.

Regiments - the 54th Massachusetts is the Regiment that "Glory" is about. Colonel Shaw commanded these men of about (how many?) troops.

I think platoons are under regiments, and I'm not sure if there is something larger than a platoon and smaller than a regiment.

Squads are parts of the platoons. And I think squads are the smallest unit.

Anyone know? Can someone tell us how many men made up each?

How much has the military changed since then?

How about each unit's commander's rank?

Anakin2121
09-03-2003, 08:23 PM
By the way, I've been figuring it out, the units of military division go:

United States Government (President Lincoln with a Declaration of War from Congress)

Commanding General of the Union Army: George Meade

Then there were Divisions. Several Corps made up the Divisions.

The different Corps - these were made out of all the Brigades. I wonder how many brigades made a Corp?

Brigades - were made up of Regiments. I also don't know how many Regiments made up a Brigade.

Regiments - the 54th Massachusetts is the Regiment that "Glory" is about. Colonel Shaw commanded these men of about (how many?) troops.

I think platoons are under regiments, and I'm not sure if there is something larger than a platoon and smaller than a regiment.

Squads are parts of the platoons. And I think squads are the smallest unit.

Anyone know? Can someone tell us how many men made up each?

How much has the military changed since then?

How about each unit's commander's rank?


Here we go. :) One of the main things that's changed is that we have predefined ranks for our leaders and commanders, whereas in the Civil War (which is properly known as the War Between the States...and in the South it's called the War of Northern Aggression) officers were killed quickly, and so it was generally the most experienced soldier that was chosen to lead, sometimes. And sometimes officers were randomly picked to lead, and the soldiers considered themselves lucky if he happened to be good.

Here's the modern military, from smallest to largest. This is off the top of my head, so feel free to correct me:

-Soldier (1 man, an Army of One) :D
-Fire team (4 men)
-Squad (normally 9 men, 2 fire teams and a squad leader)
-Platoon (Made up of four squads, with a platoon sergeant [traditionally a sergeant first class, although a staff sergeant or the first squad leader will suffice] and a platoon leader [2nd Lieutenant]. Can have anywhere between 25 and 45 men, the average normally being about 40.)
-Company (varies, normally 120 to 200 men...commanded by a captain. However, in the War Between the States and even as recently as WWII, it was common to see the 1SG, First Sergeant, as the man in charge. He was the senior NCO, after all, and normally had more experience than most of the officers.)
-Battalion (Made up of companies...can have anywhere from 350 to 800 men, and is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel with a Major as executive officer...however, in the War Between The States it was quite common to see captains as battalion commanders)
-Infantry, traditionally called Regiment (I lose count around here...it's obviously made of multiple battalions, and this is, IIRC, normally where it begins numbering in the thousands.)
-Division (Often the largest unit to engage in conflict at any one time, normally numbering around ten to fifteen thousand, IIRC.) "But General! Ah have no division! They could simply roll rocks down upon us!" :D
-Corps (The Big One. This is basically the top. A group of Corps makes up the Army. And it's pronounced "Core," not "Corpse.") :)
-Army (No explanation necessary!)
-Commander in Chief (The President is also the Commander-in-Chief, and THE chief executive of all branches of the Armed Forces.)

By the way, 5-star general, or General of the Army, is no longer in use. :)

Hope all this helps. :)

Tycho
09-04-2003, 12:29 AM
Absolutely! Thanks!

Now what's a brigade?

And I guess you outlined the US Army for me, and illustrated how it is today and back in Stonewall Jackson's time.

How about the Navy, AirForce, Marines, and Coast Guard?

How are they organized?

And in the War Between the States, were the artillery crews infantry, or classified as something else?

How about calvary? Do we still have calvary today? Are they considered tanks, transports, etc? When the Army uses helicopters, what are they considered?

How come the Navy has the Seals, when the Navy's specialists became the Marines way back when? If they needed specialists, why don't they just use Marines?

Do Marines have specialists?

The Army has Rangers and Green Berets. What's the difference?

Does the AirForce and Coast Guard have special teams?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
09-04-2003, 01:24 AM
yeah, uh, getting back on topic of the FILM "GLORY", i must say this is one of the best films about war ever put onto film. I did a lot of research after seeing this film about the 54th Mass. Glory Brigade and it was very interesting stuff.

the movie has a great cast who all do tremendous jobs on their characters, especially Morgan Freeman, who to me, can do no wrong. hehehehehehehe I must also sheepishly admit, the first time i fell in love with this flick was when i saw it in 5th grade and tears were in my eyes during the last battle. Of course, i blamed it on allergies/pretzel dust in my eyes/cryin- D'oh!

This flick also has one of the best top five scores. Ever. :D

Anakin2121
09-04-2003, 09:02 AM
Absolutely! Thanks!

Now what's a brigade?

And I guess you outlined the US Army for me, and illustrated how it is today and back in Stonewall Jackson's time.

How about the Navy, AirForce, Marines, and Coast Guard?

How are they organized?

And in the War Between the States, were the artillery crews infantry, or classified as something else?

How about calvary? Do we still have calvary today? Are they considered tanks, transports, etc? When the Army uses helicopters, what are they considered?

How come the Navy has the Seals, when the Navy's specialists became the Marines way back when? If they needed specialists, why don't they just use Marines?

Do Marines have specialists?

The Army has Rangers and Green Berets. What's the difference?

Does the AirForce and Coast Guard have special teams?


Sorry Tycho, I forgot about a brigade! It's bigger than a battalion and smaller than a division. I believe 3 regiments made up a brigade.

Marines do have specialists, they are known as Force Recon. Green Berets are the same as Special Forces. Rangers are something else. Rangers are actually given the same training as Marines. The Airforce does have special units as well, but I forgot what they're called.

We do have cavalry today. Although the helicopter has replaced the horse. :) Airborne soldiers are normally our "cavalry." :p

Most branches of the military have the same structures, but different names for everything. For instance, in artillery units, a company is called a battery. In Delta Force, a battalion is called a squadron. Etc. :)

Exhaust Port
09-04-2003, 09:11 AM
Thanks for the history lesson. Every time I watch a movie or a TV show I'm always lost when it comes to the different unit sizes and order. The next issue is the different ranks between the different branches of service.

Tycho
09-04-2003, 12:04 PM
Like in the Navy, a Captain is a much higher ranking officer than a captain in the Army.

Army enlisted have "privates," but the Navy has seamen I think. Then yeomen and petty officers, and chiefs.

Ensigns are the lowest ranking commissioned Navy officers, who I guess strive to make Lt. JG. (and I guess that's still lower than 2nd Lieutenant). Then it goes 1st Lt., Lt.Cmdr., Cmdr. Capt., Commodore, Rear Admiral, Admiral, Secretary of the Navy.

What do the Marines have?

Anakin2121
09-04-2003, 12:15 PM
Marine and Air Force officer ranks are identical to the Army's.

Navy's enlisted ranks are different. They have seamen, petty officers, etc. I'm not sure about that.
In the Air Force it's different as well. There's airmen, tech sergeants, etc.
In the Army, ranks from lowest to highest are:
Private, Private first class, specialist/corporal (a corporal is a leader and a specialist is not...you'd see a specialist as a machinegunner or MP, for example.), sergeant, staff sergeant, sergeant first class, master sergeant, first sergeant, sergeant major, command sergeant major, sergeant major of the army, 2nd lieutenant, 1st lieutenant, captain, major, lieutenant colonel, colonel, and then generals, stars one through four. :)
Navy's officer ranks, the insignia are the same, but at different levels. In the navy, a captain wears the Army captain insignia but is paid the same as an Army colonel, for example.

Marine's enlisted ranks are private, private first class, lance corporal, corporal, sergeant...then they have gunnery sergeants, or "gunnies." I'm not sure what is what, but I know it goes up to something like "senior chief master gunnery sergeant." :p

RooJay
09-05-2003, 01:20 AM
The Airforce does have special units as well, but I forgot what they're called.

Am I mistaken, or would that not be the "Combat Controllers"?


...and I hope this helps as far as the question about rank goes:

Army
1. Recruit
2. Private
3. Private 1st Class
4. Corporal Spec. 4
5. Sgt. Spec. 5
6. Staff Sgt. Spec. 6
7. Sgt. 1st Class Platoon Sgt. Spec. 7
8. Master Sgt. Spec. 8
9. Sgt. Major Spec. 9
10. Sgt. Major of the Army
11. Warrant Off.
12. Chief Warrant Off.
13. Chief Warrant Off.
14. Chief Warrant Off.
15. 2nd Lt.
16. 1st Lt.
17. Captain
18. Major
19. Lt. Colonel
20. Colonel
21. Brigadier General
22. Major General
23. Lt. General
24. General
25. General of the Army


Air Force
1. Recruit
2. Recruit
3. Airman 2nd Class
4. Airman 1st Class
5. Staff Sgt.
6. Technical Sgt.
7. Master Sgt.
8. Senior Master Sgt.
9. Chief Master Sgt.
10. -
11. Warrant Off.
12. Chief Warrant Off.
13. Chief Warrant Off.
14. Chief Warrant Off.
15. 2nd Lt.
16. 1st Lt.
17. Captain
18. Major
19. Lt. Colonel
20. Colonel
21. Brigadier General
22. Major General
23. Lt. General
24. General
25. General of the Air Force


Marine Corps
1. Private
2. Private 1st Class
3. Lance Corporal
4. Corporal
5. Sgt.
6. Staff Sgt.
7. Gunnery Sgt.
8. Sgt. Major, Master Sgt., 1st Sgt.
9. Master Gunnery Sgt.
10. -
11. Warrant Off.
12. Chief Warrant Off.
13. Chief Warrant Off.
14. Chief Warrant Off.
15. 2nd Lt.
16. 1st Lt.
17. Captain
18. Major
19. Lt. Colonel
20. Colonel
21. Brigadier General
22. Major General
23. Lt. General
24. General
25. (no equivalent)


Navy
1. Seaman Recruit
2. Seaman Apprentice
3. Seaman
4. Petty Off. 3rd Class
5. Petty Off. 2nd Class
6. Petty Off. 1st Class
7. Chief Petty Off.
8. Sr. Chief Petty Off.
9. Master Chief Petty Off.
10. -
11. Warrant Off.
12. Chief Warrant Off.
13. Chief Warrant Off.
14. Chief Warrant Off.
15. Ensign
16. Lt. Junior Grade
17. Lt.
18. Lt. Commander
19. Commander
20. Captain
21. Rear Admiral (lower half)
22. Rear Admiral (upper half)
23. Vice Admiral
24. Admiral
25. Admiral of the Fleet


Coast Guard
1. Seaman Recruit
2. Seaman Apprentice
3. Seaman
4. Petty Off. 3rd Class
5. Petty Off. 2nd Class
6. Petty Off. 1st Class
7. Chief Petty Off.
8. Senior Chief Petty Off.
9. Master Chief Petty Off.
10. -
11. Warrant Off.
12. Chief Warrant Off.
13. Chief Warrant Off.
14. Chief Warrant Off.
15. Ensign
16. Lt. Junior Grade
17. Lt.
18. Lt. Commander
19. Commander
20. Captain
21. Rear Admiral (lower half)
22. Rear Admiral (upper half)
23. Vice Admiral
24. Admiral
25. (no equivalent)

Tycho
09-05-2003, 02:20 AM
Thank you!

That was awesome of all our very patient servicemen and ex-servicemen here.

I do wish I could have been in the military. I think I might've made a career out of it.

Anyway, let's get back to discussing "Glory," one of the commanding generals of Civil War films!

Remember the pillaging of the South. Even a lot of the war was fought over that. The North feared the South competing in manufacturing with their slave labor. Wall Street didn't want to lose profits. Maybe Lincoln truly believed in blacks' equal rights, maybe at least many abolitionsists did, (or at least abhored slavery), but many that backed them wanted only to secure their business profits.

They might've just as well "legalized slavery" in the North, if they thought they could have gotten away with it. (Instead they invented credit companies).

It's sad, but while the best of humanity died in that bloody fight on the beach in "Glory," even during the Civil War, powers that moved men into battle were doing so for nothing other than their own greed.

It's sad but it seems like the military has always been used this way.

Anakin2121
09-05-2003, 07:43 AM
It's sad, but while the best of humanity died in that bloody fight on the beach in "Glory," even during the Civil War, powers that moved men into battle were doing so for nothing other than their own greed.

It's sad but it seems like the military has always been used this way.

To an extent, that's true.

And RooJay, you forgot to mention a coupla Army ranks. A corporal and specialist both are the same pay grade (E-4) but have very different jobs. Same goes for master sergeant and first sergeant (E-8). :)

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
09-07-2003, 09:21 PM
I love the movie Glory and own it on DVD. Denzel Washington gives a masterful performance as the former slave turned enlistee. Matthew Broderick received a lot of flak for taking a role many considered he wasn't fit for, but I thought he did a decent job as Col. Shaw. Morgan Freeman, always a brilliant actor did a nice job as the Sgt. of the brigade. A lot of good acting by the lesser roles (their names and roles escape me) such as the hardened Irish seargent who trained the soldiers, the one learned slave who knew the Shaw family, and the stuttering slave.

The ending is a little gut-wrenching and disheartening, but the final shot is very symbolic and touching.

Tycho
07-15-2006, 01:09 PM
I'm definitely on about my Civil War movies. Haha. Yeah, Matthew Broderick really owend this role - his best movie I think. All the battle sequences were really nicely done and they held nothing back - like the guy who gets his head blown off by a cannon in the beginning of the movie and they showed it!

Slicker
07-15-2006, 01:29 PM
Nice dig Caesar Tycho.

Glory was indeed a very great movie. It's one of my favorite war movies right behind Saving Private Ryan and just ahead of Enemy at the Gates. The actors they got for the movie were top notch and Morgan Freeman was great (I love Morgan Freeman as an actor. He's fantastic).

If you haven't seen it I highly recommend it.

Qui-Long Gone
07-20-2006, 01:55 PM
Nice dig Caesar Tycho.

Glory was indeed a very great movie. It's one of my favorite war movies right behind Saving Private Ryan and just ahead of Enemy at the Gates. The actors they got for the movie were top notch and Morgan Freeman was great (I love Morgan Freeman as an actor. He's fantastic).

If you haven't seen it I highly recommend it.

True 'Dat Slicker, true 'dat...

Glory is the best Civil War movie, and one of the top 3 War movies....

2-1B
07-20-2006, 04:19 PM
I like Glory but now that this thread has been excavated, Jim Jam will be along shortly to take it to task for its historical innaccuracies. lol


Matthew Broderick really owend this role - his best movie I think.

That would be The Cable Guy. :D

jonthejedi
08-06-2006, 04:10 AM
I may be one of the few people who saw it theatrically(along with Shawshank)...should have won best picture, period. MB's performance knocked me over, wasn't used to seeing him in drama. James Horner's score made grown men weep that afternoon. One of the best!

JimJamBonds
08-06-2006, 09:53 PM
I like Glory but now that this thread has been excavated, Jim Jam will be along shortly to take it to task for its historical innaccuracies. lol


I already did that in another thread.... after a bit of reading on the 54th the movie just isn't the same. Although I still LOVE Freeman's talk before they go into battle. My understanding is that that was all improv.