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scruffziller
09-29-2003, 06:21 PM
Saw the trailer. Not sure of what to make of it. It seems Neo continues to mentally blow things up.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
09-29-2003, 06:23 PM
I think this flick is going to explain A LOT of the confusion in the Matrix: Revolutions. I think that scene with Neo blowing up more sentinels looks awesome. I can't wait for this flick! :D

plo koon 200
09-29-2003, 07:01 PM
Can't wait to see the trailer. And what confusion is there. The first two films make perfect sense. Unfortunately everyone now can easily tell what the ending to Revoloutions will be.

mrmiller
09-29-2003, 07:38 PM
I've seen 8 different trailers- that's right- 8!

This looks amazing. I was a huge fan of Reloaded, and this looks better. It should tie up the loose ends and explain Reloaded better. I beileve that it will even make Reloaded a better movie, as it was only realy a half of a movie. I don't know if I'm more psyched for this or Return of the King. It was the Matrix all the way until I saw the ROTK trailer :eek:

=MATT=

plo koon 200
10-07-2003, 05:26 PM
Where can you see these differnt trailers?

master jedi
10-07-2003, 07:05 PM
Where can you see these differnt trailers?
You can see them at thematrix.com

The trailer and tv spots are awesome. The trailer is almost as good as the Return of the King trailer.:D
November and December are too far away.:cry:

plo koon 200
10-07-2003, 07:18 PM
It does look good. Can't wait to see it. So Neo is in both worlds at the same time? That is interesting.

Hey, I just had a strange idea. What if Zion is destroyed and everyone dies. It is a possibility. I would put nothing past the Wachowski Brothers.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-07-2003, 08:18 PM
i hope the movie ends w/ Neo waking up and being like "Woah!!" and then he turns to a guy next to him and says, "Bill, i've had a most EXCELLENT dream!" and then it cuts to Bill and he's like "Ted, my friend, that sound most excellent!" and then they do the air guitar thing. The end. :D hehehheheehhe

evenflow
10-08-2003, 11:58 AM
i hope the movie ends w/ Neo waking up and being like "Woah!!" and then he turns to a guy next to him and says, "Bill, i've had a most EXCELLENT dream!" and then it cuts to Bill and he's like "Ted, my friend, that sound most excellent!" and then they do the air guitar thing. The end. :D hehehheheehhe


That would be the perfect ending. Anything would be better than the last Matrix movie. That was just terrible. I don think i will be going to see this because of how terrible the last one was.

plo koon 200
10-08-2003, 02:21 PM
What did you dislike about Reloaded. I loved it and thought it was brilliant. It was original, the brothers took some risks making it. A lot of conventions were broken in this film that are commonly seen in second films.

evenflow
10-08-2003, 05:26 PM
I think that the movie was pointless and unnecessary. The first movie ended it pretty much for me. There was a resolution, no need for any more story. It just didnt seem to be needed. I t was like hey look at this, we made so much money off the first one and people seem to like it so much, lets write 2 more less then worthy movies to make more money. Just my opnion.

plo koon 200
10-08-2003, 05:35 PM
I agree that the story of the agents was/should have been over but Reloaded added many new elements and expanded the story further. But I see what you say. I think a lot of films are like that, however.

evenflow
10-09-2003, 09:09 AM
I have to agree that alot of films are like that, its too bad.

aceguide
10-09-2003, 09:10 AM
I have enjoyed the continuation of the series, and am looking forward to the final chapter.

[DSS]Pedr0
10-09-2003, 09:11 AM
I think that the movie was pointless and unnecessary. The first movie ended it pretty much for me. There was a resolution, no need for any more story. It just didnt seem to be needed. I t was like hey look at this, we made so much money off the first one and people seem to like it so much, lets write 2 more less then worthy movies to make more money. Just my opnion.
BUT IT DIDNT END, HE HAS TO NOW GO "FREE" EVERYONE ELSE FROM THE MATRIX.....

kool-aid killer
10-09-2003, 10:30 AM
I have yet to see the second movie but have debated going to see it at a local dollar cinema. I liked the first but the second ones previews didnt stir me enough to make me want to go see it. Perhaps if i see the third installments previews i will be motivated to go.

Hellboy
10-11-2003, 04:19 PM
I just saw the full trailer for the first time before Kill Bill and was blown away. It looks even better than Reloaded. :eek: Agent Smith seems to have a much more crucial role in this installment and the action scenes appear to be on a much larger scale. I can't wait for November.

mrmiller
10-12-2003, 02:45 AM
That trailer before KB was cool. Everyone in the theater was a buzz after it was over. It makes Revoutions a must see. I'm pumped for it, just have to pick up Reloaded next week so I can figure it out first :) .

=MATT=

evenflow
10-12-2003, 09:30 AM
I am still so uninterested because of my feelings toward Reloaded.

Hasbro'sBountyHunter
10-30-2003, 10:10 PM
Just got back from the DC premere of The Matrix Revolutions. IMO, it's the darkest chapter of the whole trilogy. Much better than the other 2.

derek
10-30-2003, 10:43 PM
Just got back from the DC prememe of The Matrix Revolutions. IMO, it's the darkest chapter of the whole trilogy. Much better than the other 2.

so is it true that the "kid" is the real "one"?
is there an actual ending to the film or is it left open ended?
do we find out if the "real world" is really real or just another part of the matrix?

[DSS]Pedr0
10-30-2003, 11:19 PM
Just got back from the DC prememe of The Matrix Revolutions. IMO, it's the darkest chapter of the whole trilogy. Much better than the other 2.
GIMME DETAILS MAN!!! DONT LEAVE ME HANGING!!! or PM ME PLEASE!!!!!!!! :confused:

Hasbro'sBountyHunter
10-30-2003, 11:28 PM
so is it true that the "kid" is the real "one"?
is there an actual ending to the film or is it left open ended?
do we find out if the "real world" is really real or just another part of the matrix?


***Possible Spoilers***

1. I didn't really understand the kid's part too well. IMO, I interpreted her as a beacon of hope for the Matrix, but not the One.

2. The movie ends within the world of the Matrix. The Oracle, the child, and Seraph are in a park looking up peacefully at a beautiful array of sunlight in the sky.

***End Spoilers***

3. If I remember Second Renaissance correctly from the Animatrix, the "real world" is really real. So with that being said, I'd assume the same for the trilogy.

I definately will need to see this again...




Pedr0']GIMME DETAILS MAN!!! DONT LEAVE ME HANGING!!! or PM ME PLEASE!!!!!!!! :confused:

You can wait a few more days. Trust me, it's worth the wait. I'll just say this- Special effects are overkill- in a good way. :) The phrase "god****" is used often.

jjreason
10-31-2003, 03:37 AM
Im so freaking there! I can't wait to see how this wraps up (okay, I just read above how it wraps up - you know what I mean).

Less than 1 week to go! :D

mrmiller
10-31-2003, 11:05 AM
Thanks for posting the *spoilers* tag in your msg, I wish more people did that as I try to remain spoiler free. I'm pumped up for this one- so without posting a spoiler- Was it a good flick? how would you rate it on a grading scale?

=MATT=

Hasbro'sBountyHunter
10-31-2003, 03:29 PM
without posting a spoiler- Was it a good flick? how would you rate it on a grading scale?

=MATT=

The movie kept me on the edge of my seat. It was extremely good. On a scale of 1-10, I'd give it a 10.1! :rolleyes:

[DSS]Pedr0
10-31-2003, 03:53 PM
You can wait a few more days. Trust me, it's worth the wait. I'll just say this- Special effects are overkill- in a good way. :) The phrase "god****" is used often.
NO DAMNIT I CANT!!! TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME!!!! :cry: :crazed: :( :eek:

plo koon 200
10-31-2003, 04:21 PM
I can't wait either but I know I have to. Only five more days.

JediTricks
11-01-2003, 04:41 AM
Thanks for posting the *spoilers* tag in your msg, I wish more people did that as I try to remain spoiler free. Why would you read a thread with the word "spoilers" in the title then?



**ahoy, possible spoiler following**

Anyway, I read a bunch of spoilers over at AICN the other day and it looks to me like I'm not gonna dig this film much at all. Is it true the ending leaves it open for the possibility of yet another sequel?

James Boba Fettfield
11-01-2003, 02:52 PM
That spoiler thing was added by me after getting some urging to do so by some posters.

plo koon 200
11-01-2003, 03:23 PM
So does Zion win the war? Or is there an equilibrium or rather a singularity struck between the machine and man forces?

Hasbro'sBountyHunter
11-01-2003, 04:54 PM
So does Zion win the war? Or is there an equilibrium or rather a singularity struck between the machine and man forces?



Ok ok, I've caved in. I'm putting in a major spoiler, so be warned...

*****************
***SPOILER ALERT***
*****************

Neo and Trinity make their way to Machine City. Upon arrival, Trinity is killed. Neo then ventures alone and comes into contact with the head of the machines (while this is happening, the machine sentinals have already breached Zion, about to make their final strike). Neo tells the head, "The program Smith has grown beyond your control. You cannot stop him. But I can."

"And if you fail?"

"I won't."

Neo is then jacked into the Matrix and the final battle between Neo and Smith commences. The fight ends with Smith absorbing Neo, causing the end of the Matrix. As a result, the real Neo dies, but it also causes the machine sentinals retreat Zion. Zion celebrates.

Finally the Matrix rebuilds itself, and you see the Oracle sitting on a park bench. The architect approaches her saying something like, "How long do you think this PEACE will last?" I forget what the Oracle says, but then the Architect walks away. At that same moment, Seraph and the little girl approach her. Seraph says something and then the little girl points up in the sky. The Oracle asks her, "did you make that?" The little girl says yes and as they look up into the serene sky, the movie ends.

****************
***END SPOILER ***
****************

plo koon 200
11-01-2003, 09:12 PM
Hmmm. :D :D

JediTricks
11-01-2003, 11:30 PM
That spoiler thing was added by me after getting some urging to do so by some posters.
Except his post came in 3 hours after you changed the thread, I checked. :D But ok, I'll admit that my snarky comment wasn't as accurate as it first seemed. ;)

Beast
11-04-2003, 09:01 AM
While I hate the Matrix movies with a passion, I'll be going to see this. I just figure that I may as well, since I saw 'Reloaded' in the theater. I also just learned that the first showing for my local theater is at 9 AM. Ugh, I don't mind 11 AM first showings, but this is a bit ridiculous. But I guess I'll hit Micky D's, watch 'Matrix 3', take a restroom break and catch 'Brother Bear' afterwards. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

plo koon 200
11-04-2003, 06:24 PM
To my surprise I saw Revoloutions yesterday, that is Monday at 7:30 pm at a Press Screening. This is probably the best one of all of them and kind of answers all the questions. It also has less plot but that is good because it does not need to be anymore complicated.

James Boba Fettfield
11-05-2003, 03:12 PM
Wow, after watching this film Reloaded just became about 10 times better. It answers the questions we asked after seeing Reloaded. The ending was a bit weird to me, and I have a theory about some of the stuff they said. Not sure if this is supposed to be a true conclusion to the series or if they W. brothers are leaving the door open to do more with it.

derek
11-05-2003, 05:00 PM
what a waste of 2 hours. i really am disapointed in the 3rd part of this trilogy. this film served no purpose what-so-ever. the machines just give up because neo does them a favor by removing the smith virus? how lame. no matrix within a matrix, no twist ending, no suprises,........ other than making a boat load of money, what did these last two films accomplish???......nothing, except setting us up for future movies or TV shows or cartoons or video games!!! :o

everything the architech said in the last film was true, no explanation was given for neo's real world force powers, trinity's death speech made qui-gon's look like brilliant writing,.........this film could of easily of been combined with re-loaded and edited down into one film.(or not made at all) what a waste of time. :frus:

so the machines just call a truce and have a temporary peace? they willingly give up their source of power and will release the humans who want to be free?
and when too many humans are free and the machines power source is threatened, the war will begin again. :confused: what's the point of the machines even stopping? after neo removed smith, the machines should of said thanks and continued destroying zion. they are going to have to eventually.

plo koon 200
11-05-2003, 06:20 PM
I actually think there is a possibilty that there may be permanent peace. We will just have to wait.


*****Possible Spoilers************
You know what I think, after they show that programs can give birth I think that Smith was born from a human and Neo born from a program but they had their bodies switched at some stage. For those who saw it what do you think.

Turbowars
11-05-2003, 07:26 PM
I hated the 2nd I I knew I would hate the 3rd, so thanks Derek for helpimg me save a few bucks.

jlw
11-05-2003, 08:43 PM
I totally hated Matrix 3!! What could have been my favorite trilogy is now my most hated!! The ending totaly blowed. The only thing I want to know is was there anything after the credits rolled? I was so mad at the ending that I got up as soon as the credits rolled. The only way they can/could redeeme the movie is to have something after the credits showing the Matrix & the machines being destroyed.

After seeing Matrix 3, I WILL NOT buy any of the dvd's and will probably throw my Matrix VHS in the trash.

James Boba Fettfield
11-05-2003, 09:16 PM
what a waste of 2 hours. i really am disapointed in the 3rd part of this trilogy. this film served no purpose what-so-ever. the machines just give up because neo does them a favor by removing the smith virus?

I think the point being shown there was the machines knew things like love, compassion, etc. Take for example the programs who created a "child" in the matrix. That was the first, from what I remember, introduction that the machines knew of the ideas I mentioned before like love, etc.


how lame. no matrix within a matrix, no twist ending, no suprises,........ other than making a boat load of money, what did these last two films accomplish???

The ending surprised me. The machines were no different than the men who had created them. I expected the machines to want to destroy Zion, but I think Neo's act of sacrifice showed the machines that humans were compassionate beings who deserved more than to be slaughtered for wanting to be free.


everything the architech said in the last film was true, no explanation was given for neo's real world force powers

I agree with that, maybe I missed the part where some explanation was given for why Neo could do the things he did in the real world. All I got from it was, "He can do it just because."


so the machines just call a truce and have a temporary peace? they willingly give up their source of power and will release the humans who want to be free?

Yep, the machines understand cocepts the humans never expected them to. I think that's the point behind the machines sparing Zion and its people.


and when too many humans are free and the machines power source is threatened, the war will begin again. :confused: what's the point of the machines even stopping? after neo removed smith, the machines should of said thanks and continued destroying zion.

I don't know if the machines will have to worry about too many humans being freed and losing all their power. From what Morpheus told Neo in the Matrix, the people who were freed were people who were looking for something more and not knowing what that something more was. It's not like Morpheus and gang will start coming into the Matrix and freeing everyone. Only certain people can be safely removed from the matrix and they have to have that special "looking for a greater thing" going for them. And they still got good ol' regular breeding to keep their population growing.

I think if the machines had went in and destroyed Zion after what Neo had done, it would have went against what this film was saying about the machines understanding emotions. The machines recognized the sacrifices of Trinity and Neo.

There's no reason to need to destroy Zion. To me the ending I was getting from the film was that the humans and machines would try to live in a harmony much like was shown in the Animatrix before the **** hit the fan.


Now please don't hit me for what I said here. I'm not trying to say you have to like the direction the matrix took with handling the machines. I'm sure many of you hated the machines and wanted them to be wiped out. In my opinion, had that happened, then I would of been like some of you and hated the film. That ending would have went against everything the Animatrix had shown and what these final two films had shown.

plo koon 200
11-05-2003, 09:35 PM
I 100% agree with you and I actually did not think up of some of the points you did. I think you are right and it is counter Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep or Blade Runner and more Asimov like and optimistic. Like in Reloaded where we see the water machine in Zion and the guy mentions to Neo that they need machines to survive and machines need us to survive. I really think the point that this film was getting at is that machine and man can live in harmony just like we do now. But if we abuse or power or over react or do stupid things we will become the victims of our own progress.

plo koon 200
11-05-2003, 09:37 PM
PS For me Revoloutions is the best out of the Matrix films and like Reloaded it takes on a differnt approach which is neccesarry for this film series. Remember the original Matrix was so popular for taking a differnt approach and I am glad to see this continued on.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-05-2003, 10:07 PM
Alright, i just got back from a showing and this movie was fantastic!!!! I must say i loved EVERY possible aspect of the film (aside from "The Kid" not dying a horrible gruesome death, but hey, can't win them all). Anyway, i'll make this short and sweet cos JBFF made a lot of my points, and i'm not going to waste my time preaching to those who are just going to b**** about it anyway.

I don't know if it's because the machines suddenly grew emotions and whatnot, but a lot can be said from the last scene w/ the architect and the oracle. When he promises to allow those to be freed and she says, "I have your word" and he replies, "What do you think i am, Human?" That just explains that the machines agreed to this and will keep up their end of the bargain.

However, while i'm typing this, i'm chatting like a mad man and there seems to be some idea that the machines did get a basic idea of what love is, which is why that programmer was giving up his daughter and letting her be free, out of the grasp of the matrix. Also, Personephe (sorry, that's spelled wrong) had an obsession with finding love in "Reloaded" and maybe this was some sort of way to transmit or make an attempt to under this emotion called "love" to the machines. Plus as JBFF has pointed out, if the machines got a basic idea of love, they could've made an understand about compassion, understanding and whatnot; so while the robots had been killed off by man for a while and while the machines tried to kill of men for a while, everything came full circle and ended, and as the oracle said, "everything that has a beginning has an end."

As for Neo, i don't think he's actually dead. I could've sworn i saw him move a bit at the end and i could be mistaken but one this is for certain: he has become part of the source now. He was glowing all yellow (you're skiiiiiiiin, oh yeah, your- sorry, coldplay tangent), when they brought him into the source, so he's still alive in the machines, but as for the matrix neo, he's canned.

I also agree w/ JBFF when he says that not every freakin' person is going to be freed; just those who want it. Plus, the machines can just create more beings and whatnot, so their power will never run out.

As for Neo having more powers, it was stated by the oracle something that "he wasn't ready for it yet" and he should be dead, so i assume the One eventually grows the power or maybe begins to RECOGNIZE he has powers extended to both worlds. Plus, his powers stemmed from the Source, so it would make sense that he would have powers to both worlds over machines such as sentinels.

Anyway, i highly recommend those of you who are not goin to see this flick due to others reviews to "make a choice" and see it for yourself; don't allow others to make your decisions for you; after all, we all have the freewill to do what we want. hehehehehehehehe sorry, "mike morpheus" mode is done. AWESOME MOVIE!!! I'll see it at least twice this weekend!! cheers!! :D

[DSS]Pedr0
11-06-2003, 12:28 AM
I liked it but it didnt live up to 2 let alone 1, just wasnt stong enough in the writing dept or sumthin, seemed like pieces were still missing.

mrmiller
11-06-2003, 12:36 AM
I just saw the movie, and I loved it. Then again, I liked the first 2, and this movie just makes Reloaded even better. I can understand that this is not everyone’s "thing" but I enjoyed the heck out of it.

Just to touch on a few points. Now these are my takes and may be way off in your opinion.

Neo was/is always in touch with the source. Once he learns how to control this is how he has so called powers outside the Matrix. It's because he is existing both in the Computer world and real world simultaneously. That's how at the fist he is in the Matrix and not "jacked in". So he doesn't have powers so much as he can interact with the machines through the source, in other words it's not like he is blasting a shock-wave out to shut down the machines, but more like controlling them from the source to shut down.

I also took it that the logical minded computers struck a deal, and had to make good on it. The ending with the architect is an explanation of it. Also the realizing that they have evolved to be much more alike (with feelings and emotions) may have had something to do with it. I think that's one reason why Neo didn't want to destroy the Matrix and the machines, but rather find peace. And this may also have convinced the Machines to do the same.

I think of the Smith character as becoming a sort of Virus (remember his speech from the 1st movie) taking over the entire matrix. He will eventually move beyond the matrix and take over the entire computer world. He then plans on destroying everything, The Matrix and all the people connected to it, Zion, the Computer World, everything.

The ending was great. The series is very theological, and the ending further portrays Neo as the promised one in a sort of Christ figure. He gives up his own life so as everyone else’s can be saved. And in that he made the choice to give up his life, and understood the consequences of his choice.

I really liked the defense of Zion scene. The Mechs vs. the Sentinels was awesome. Also the inclusion of the characters they introduced in Reloaded made the moves seem more like one film, rather than introducing new characters to carry out the sequence of events to opening the doors.

One thing I still have a problem with is how Neo destroyed Smith. Was he just absorbed by Smith to become part of Smiths essence, then destroyed him from the inside? Or was it the re-assimilation of the code Neo carries with Smiths code? I like the destroyed from the inside theory myself.

The whole fact that we are writing and debating on these intellectual theories is a huge part of what I think makes the Matrix films so enjoyable. They are not your standard cookie cutter sci-fi action films, but more on a deeper level like hasn’t been seen since the writings of Heinlein and Asmov. So if you have any interest in the movies at all- take you $5 to $10 and at least go to a matinee and check it out. The discussions about the movie that are sure to follow will be worth that, plus you might just enjoy it as much as I did. :D

Sorry for being so long winded- let the flaming begin ;)

=MATT=

James Boba Fettfield
11-06-2003, 12:45 AM
My theory on what happened with Smith:

Remember that bit about Smith existing because of Neo? He was Neo's opposite and he existed because of Neo. Smith was there to balance out Neo and his superpowers....which leads me to the Architect and his job in "balancing the equation."

Anyway, I felt Neo understood that and he knew the only way to defeat Smith was to let himself die. That's why he allowed Smith to take control of him, thus making Neo no longer existing, which led to an imbalance in the equation of the matrix, thus causing the deletion of Smith to bring the equation back in balance. But that's just my theory, I'm sure (and know from talking with another fan) there are other interpretations as to what happened in that scene.

icatch9
11-06-2003, 01:01 AM
GREAT MOVIE!!! Most opinions here are sound. One thing that hasn't been brought up is weather or not Neo and Trin are dead. I don't think they have to be.

The machines have a superior knowledge of the human body. Trins injuries could easily be healed (in movie land at least). Plus, we don't really know what happened to Neo, so he could easily be alive. I doubt either will be in any future episodes, but it's possible.

Keanu Reeves was on the Today show yesterday I think and he said that the story isn't necessarily over, but Neo's journey ends. So, it's clear that he wants out or wants boo-ku bucks for a future episode. So, who knows?

Still, great movie and leaves us talking and wanting more. After all its Warner Bros, so they'll milk if for all it's worth and run it into the ground like Batman. So, we should expect something else.

Go see it, it's good enough.

Beast
11-06-2003, 04:06 AM
JMG, they weren't giving her up to be out of the grasp of the Matrix. They were giving her up, so that she could exist inside the Matrix. The train station exists between the real world and the Matrix. Appearantly the Matrix is like some paradise to the machines. Because they can feel emotions, and don't want their daughter to be deleted for being a useless program. So they had her program smuggled from the real world (the machine city) into the Matrix. That's why she's there at the end.

My own opinion about the film? I liked it way better then the first one, which I disliked. And the second one with I hated with a passion. I think because we got less of the 'Matrix wire-fu bullet-time' crap and some really good actual real world action. The battle at the dock of Zion with the APC's and the squids kicked major arse.

I also liked it because it focused less on Neo (I hate Keanu Reeves), Trinity (Dislike the character), and Morpheus (He's ok, but I can give or take him), and more on the more intresting characters that have been pretty much ignored in the other movies. It was great to not see the holy matrix Trinity (couldn't help myself) on screen all the time. Good flick. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jeddah
11-06-2003, 05:06 AM
Anyone have any comments about the absorbed Oracle being the one who tries to absorb Neo? Then, when Smith is annihliated, she is the one lying in the puddle at the end. Rather symbolic but not sure why or what....?

jeddah

Pendo
11-06-2003, 06:00 AM
Undecided about the movie. I thought the 1st movie was great but have been disapointed by both sequels. I thought it was a bit too choppy. After Trinity dies (which is supposed to be an emotional scene) we are taken straight back to Zion where all hell is breaking loose and we total forget about Trin and don't feel much emotion for her. I think if the camera stayed on Trinity or Neo for a few more seconds, or went to another quieter scene then the death of Trinity would be more emotionaly powerful and we wouldn't be distracted from it.

I disagree with JJB, I loved all the kung fu in the last 2 films (apart from Neo vs. all the Smiths which was just stupid). I'd have loved to have seen more kung-fu in this film. And if Neo could easily take on hundreds of Smith's in the last film, why struggle to take on one in this one?

I don't think all the questions have been answered and I think they have made room for a 4th movie if they want some more money.

It was enjoyable, but not outstanding.

PENDO!

plo koon 200
11-06-2003, 08:43 AM
I don't know if it's because the machines suddenly grew emotions and whatnot, but a lot can be said from the last scene w/ the architect and the oracle. When he promises to allow those to be freed and she says, "I have your word" and he replies, "What do you think i am, Human?" That just explains that the machines agreed to this and will keep up their end of the bargain.


As for Neo, i don't think he's actually dead. I could've sworn i saw him move a bit at the end and i could be mistaken but one this is for certain: he has become part of the source now. He was glowing all yellow (you're skiiiiiiiin, oh yeah, your- sorry, coldplay tangent), when they brought him into the source, so he's still alive in the machines, but as for the matrix neo, he's canned.

:D


I think that maybe machines had emotions all along, look at the revolt in the Second Rennaisance from the Animatrix. I think the moment that machine intellignece reached a certain level they had to have emotions. I think what really happens is that machines don't realize that humans have emotions. Or at least not important complex emotions like the machines do. I think the machines think the level of complexity of their emotions is like when we say because we are a human and the other animal is a chicken it is okay for us to take the other chickens and slaughter them because they are less than human. You see man is less than machine. It is kind of like slavery with the blacks. The black people were viewed as not being human. What I really think happens is that because of Neo having machine like powers in many senses the machines see Neo and the human race actually being like them.


I also agree with you on Neo. I don't think he is dead either. In many ways I think there are implications that Neo may have been the source himself all along.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-06-2003, 09:57 AM
I disagree with JJB, I loved all the kung fu in the last 2 films (apart from Neo vs. all the Smiths which was just stupid). I'd have loved to have seen more kung-fu in this film. And if Neo could easily take on hundreds of Smith's in the last film, why struggle to take on one in this one?

PENDO!

Pendo!- I think he had trouble with Smith because he had grown more and more powerful just as Neo had. Like in Reloaded, Neo was very powerful and in this one, he realized he could control things both in AND outside of the matrix. Plus, the Oracle said that Smith was his opposite, so it would work so that since Neo has gotten stronger, so had Smith.


At least, that's my opinion. :p


Plo- Yeah, the Second Rennaisance was something that JBFF and myself talked about via IM last night; i'll have to go back and watch it, cos frankly, i don't remember all of it. cheers! :D

James Boba Fettfield
11-06-2003, 10:35 AM
Exactly what JMG said about the Smith thing! Smith was as strong as Neo, notice how Smith could fly? I think the point that battle was trying to convey was that Neo and Smith could never win against each other in a straight kung fu fight like had been done in previous films. The battle would have just kept going until one of them let it end by either fleeing or letting themselves be beaten.

mrmiller
11-06-2003, 11:11 AM
Anyone have any comments about the absorbed Oracle being the one who tries to absorb Neo? Then, when Smith is annihliated, she is the one lying in the puddle at the end. Rather symbolic but not sure why or what....?

jeddah

Now I'm going to have to think about that, and I’ve been thinking about this movie all night (again, that’s one of the things that makes this series so good), and come up with a few more insights.

Unlike JJB- one thing that I wish they had done in Revolutions is give Morephous a bigger role. I like Niobe’s character very much, but I wish they would have switched her roll and Morephous during the piloting of the hovercraft. That would have kept your main character in Morephous a key roll. Actually, I don’t know of anything important he did in Revolutions. That part was disappointing to me.

Also, what about the Little Girl? Now it seems to me that she was born inside the matrix. She isn’t a program written by the Matrix to do anything, and she isn’t a “human” that has been freed in the matrix. Then when the Matrix is rebuilt, she manipulates the Matrix to have the warm sunrise of a new beginning. Hummm? Maybe there is more to her character than I thought. Is she a symbol of love an emotion in the computer world, or even something greater? Chew on that a bit and let me know what you think.

=MATT=

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-06-2003, 12:17 PM
mrmiller- I think she represented something for the machines that is finally becoming evident: emotions. I don't know how she was able to create the sunrise or maybe it was one of those little kid things where they are goofy and say they did something and they didn't. Like when my mom makes cookies and i walk in when she's left and i ask my nephew who's like 6, "did you make these?!?" and he'll be like "yup!" But, then again, she could have a greater purpose. Maybe she's there to make sure the machines hold up to their end of the bargain since if she did have the power to make the sunrise, she obviously has some powers.

I also got another theory on the Neo/Smith battle- do you remember when the Oracle said that when a program has done its duty, it can either return to the source or be deleted? Well, wasn't it told in "Reloaded" that the "one" is just another program of control? Well, Smith being Neo's opposite, when Neo allowed himself to be destroyed, this made Smiths' purpose of destroying Neo non-existent, thus he was deleted or destroyed by the Matrix? Just more food for thought.

I liked how Morpheus kinda did his thing in the movie. It gave some of the other characters some time to shine. I mean, c'mon, for those who played "Enter the Matrix" there were bursts of giddiness when Sparks made a wise-a-- comment and when Ghost had a bit of screentime; plus, it just showed that this had to be a group effort to make everything work. I did enjoy the scene where Neo, Trinity and Morpheus said goodbye; that was an oddly touching scene. You could tell that they knew they weren't going to see each other again and that the first 3 we met in the story of the Matrix that are still left have to go their seperate ways.

I love these flicks!! so many ways to interpret and think about them!! cheers!! :D

plo koon 200
11-06-2003, 12:36 PM
For the girl I have another theory and I think she may represent the exact opposite of what you discussed JMG. I think the girl is there to unbalance the equation to cause balance. I think she is the next version of Mr. Smith. This comes from my theory that Neo was born from a machine and that Smith was born from a human but at birth or some point they were switched around.

Remember how at the end the girl asks if she will see Neo again and the Oracle tells her that she will. That is because Neo is the human version and she is the computer version of the "one." However this is just a theory and will likely not come true. Just more food for thought.

Beast
11-06-2003, 12:53 PM
Neo wasn't born of a machine. When Neo flew through Smith and merged with him in the first one. Smith and Neo both picked up a bit of each others code. That's why Smith became more 'human' and Neo became more 'machine'.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

mrmiller
11-06-2003, 01:33 PM
Neo wasn't born of a machine. When Neo flew through Smith and merged with him in the first one. Smith and Neo both picked up a bit of each others code. That's why Smith became more 'human' and Neo became more 'machine'.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Agreed.

I do like the idea of Neo being the Human version of the One and the Little girl being a computer/machine version of the one. So no we need a human anti-one.
It's getting deep in here.

=MATT=

BFett88
11-06-2003, 02:30 PM
Great Post. This was a great movie. I think it might be my favorite Matrix movie. The defence against Zion was great, and with Niobe flying that ship, it was almost reminicent of Star Wars. I do wish there was more of Morphious in it. I also liked the ending, it wasn't a happily ever after ending. One question in reloaded, it didn't seem like the ghost programs died. I was hoping for Neo to kick there ***. But this was a great ride.

So I guess in this movie, Niobe was Han Solo and Morphious was Chewbaca. LOL.

Now do you think peace will remain, or do you think the humans will ruin it again, like in the Animatrix.

James Boba Fettfield
11-06-2003, 02:47 PM
In my opinion, I think peace will remain. I think the cycle of violence has been broken once and for all.

derek
11-06-2003, 04:20 PM
In my opinion, I think peace will remain. I think the cycle of violence has been broken once and for all.

what would make you think this? if the machines are able to love, or understand the "word" love, they can also learn and experience other human emotions like "hate", "greed", "anger", "and "lust", as in "power-lust", which will all result in a resumtion of the war.

if the machines are reasonable, they will realize the humans are just a power source and potential threat to them, and when their existence is threatened, they will have to eliminate that threat.:)

but on the other hand, i'm glad most of you guys liked the movie. i was just expecting a lot more. anyone who ever said the matrix is "deep", or like me thought is was going to turn out to be, was mistaken.:)

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-06-2003, 04:24 PM
but on the other hand, i'm glad most of you guys liked the movie. i was jsut expecting a lot more. anyone who ever said the matrix is "deep", or like me thought is was going to turn out to be, was mistaken.:)

Gonna hafta disagree with you on that, my friend. I loved these films because to me, they are deep and they could have various interpretations and meanings to them. I think a lot of people are mad cos at first, there isn't an obvious winner of the battle...but once they pull their head out of their a-- and look at the events, they might see it. :D

derek
11-06-2003, 04:34 PM
i once thought as you did............. :happy:

but think about it.the matrix isn't complicated or deep at all.......

1. humans are used as fuel to power A.I. machines and live in a virtual world called the matrix.
2. some humans get out of the matrix and the machines send programs to delete them.
3. one human merges with the anti virus.
4. the anti virus goes rogue and tries to take over the matirx
5. the human who merged with the anti virus destroyes the rogue anti virus.
6. as a result of this there is peace between the machines and humans, why, because the machines learned to love. :crazed: but any machine that can love can hate, and any human that can taste a little freedom will want more......and there you have the necessary ingrediants for more war, where the superior machines will finally have to eliminate the pesky humans.

the flaw is that the machines even allowed zion to flourish at all.

Pendo
11-06-2003, 04:36 PM
I wish it had a brief scene at the end where it showed Commander Lok admit that Neo was "the one", and although it was pretty much shown in the middle of the movie, we needed to be reminded at the end of the movie that Morpheus knew that Trinity and Neo would not be returning to Zion.

PENDO!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-06-2003, 04:46 PM
Derek- it's all how you interpret it dude. There is a lot of meaning in the decisions that they had to face and Neo being a symbol of a certain figure whom i won't mention so i don't get hit with a "religious post!" thing. It had a lot to do with choice and freewill and whatnot; do we really have a choice or is everything predestined? There are many different layers and a lot of the events/characters/ideals can be traced back to many different religions and whatnot.

Like i said, it's how you interpret it...or how you WANT to interpret it. Since these sorts of interpreations contradict what you think, they won't be accepted, eh? :D

James Boba Fettfield
11-06-2003, 04:53 PM
what would make you think this? if the machines are able to love, or understand the "word" love, they can also learn and experience other human emotions like "hate", "greed", "anger", "and "lust", as in "power-lust", which will all result in a resumtion of the war.

You're right, I'm sure the machines know what hate is. I'm sure they hated humans, and The Second Renaissance showed that after how man treated them in society.

But I think the way I do because I believe both man and machine learned something about each other from the events of this war. I believe the humans and machines will learn to exist again in a different way and they will learn from the past. If anyone is going to start the war up again, I'd expect it to be the humans, but I don't see the current surviving humans doing that. The machines gave the humans peace, and the humans have no reason to destroy the machine empire.


if the machines are reasonable, they will realize the humans are just a power source and potential threat to them

I think that will only happen if the machines were cold and unfeeling. From what I gathered, the machines are not all like that. You call it reasonable, I call it being cold and calculating. I felt the point the movie's ending was trying to show the machines were not all different from man. That is to say, the machines won't look at humans as just batteries for fulfilling their own needs. They saw Neo give his life, which saved both the machines and humans. Neo could have easily said, "I hate the machines more than I love my friends, so I'm not going to stop Smith. I'll let everyone of us, both man and machine, perish." But Neo didn't do that, he saved both and the machines recognized Neo's act of selflessness for the greater good.

What I'm saying is, man and machine both learned something here and I think it's something all too important that neither side will forget it and start the war up again. Terminator was a movie about machines killing man for no reason other than to ensure their survival, the matrix is not about that. Maybe some wanted the matrix to be that, but I'm happy it was not.

plague79
11-06-2003, 04:53 PM
Anyone have any comments about the absorbed Oracle being the one who tries to absorb Neo? Then, when Smith is annihliated, she is the one lying in the puddle at the end. Rather symbolic but not sure why or what....?

jeddah

Here is what I think will somewhat explain this.
We know that when Neo destroyed smith in M1 that each exchanged code. We also know from the oracle that The Matrix relies on an attempt to keep a balanced equation. She states that smith is his opposite. The Oracle also states that the Architect is there to try and bring order and balance to the matrix while she (the oracle) is there to unbalance the equation, and to me i think she is there also to bring about chaos.

Now, when Neo was in the room with the architect he went through the white door that lead to the source. Part of the source was now imprinted on him, in essence making him more powerful and thus further imbalancing an equation that can somewhat be described as this

Neo + Ordered_Matrix = Smith + Chaos_Matrix

now we saw that Neo was more powerful than Smith in Reloaded, and in order to try and correct this imbalance Smith began to replicate himself, thus basically creating many small powers of X to try and equal the greater value that is Neo, similar to an Infinite Series (for those who know some calculus).

But no matter how hard Smith tries by adding up these small parts he still cannot quite reach the power of Neo, for example during the Smith/Neo fight after the oracle scene in M2 Smith is unable to keep up with Neo and orders more of him to join in.

Essentually we know that the Oracle knew the machines and humans needed to work together in the future so she planned a a way that they would need each other so there could be peace.

She new full well that if Smith were to take her over he would become as powerful as Neo. I think it is pretty clear that she did this on purpose from the Smith speach about why was she still there at her house if she knew what was going to happen.

So now we have Neo with imprinted source and a Smith-Oracle combination. So our equation is now:

Neo + Ordered_Matrix = Chaos_Matrix + (Oracle + Smith)

where Neo = Smith (as stated by the oracle that he and smith were oposites, I however think that once smith and the oracle joinged Smith was now slightly more powerful, explaining why he seemed to have a slight upper hand in the fighting.)

When Smith attempts to take over Neo we get two opposites cancelling each other out

Neo - (Smith + Oracle) + Ordered_Matrix = Chaos_Matrix

Neo and Smith Cancel leaving

-Oracle + Ordered_Matrix = Chaos_Matrix

then

Ordered_Matrix = Chaos_Matrix + Oracle

there is an imbalance now on the Chaos side shifting the equalibrium towards a chaotic matrix, hence while it is still raining and everything is disrupt after the fight still and we are left with just the oracle laying in the crater, all the other smiths and Neo being equal cancelled each other out.

Then once the Architect enters the matrix the equalibrium is restored and we see what looks like the matrix being rebooted and everything returning to normal.

Architect + Ordered_Matrix = Oracle + Chaos_Matrix


Hopefully that makes sense.

evenflow
11-06-2003, 06:01 PM
I think that the movie was pointless and unnecessary. The first movie ended it pretty much for me. There was a resolution, no need for any more story. It just didnt seem to be needed. I t was like hey look at this, we made so much money off the first one and people seem to like it so much, lets write 2 more less then worthy movies to make more money. Just my opnion.


Well once again I stand by my word. Total dissapointment once again. I cant believe my firends suckered me into going to see it after Reloaded.

plo koon 200
11-06-2003, 06:03 PM
I think Smith took over everyone in the Matrix including the Architect as well as the Oracle. Pay close attention to his speech.

JJB and everyone else who claims Neo had his code implanted on Smith, I don't think that was so. I think what Neo did was made Smith realize his potential. In Reloaded he said he was free. I think in order for Neo to be able what he is able to do that he was probably born from a machine and put into a human body. How else does a man see in the code of the Matrix. You may disagree but also think about how Smith did not die at the end of M1 and how Neo did not die at the end of M1 when he was shot to death. Think about what Smith was doing to Morpheus at the end of M1. There a lot of subtle hints that may say otherwise about the origins of Smith and Neo.

mrmiller
11-06-2003, 06:14 PM
Neo could have easily said, "I hate the machines more than I love my friends, so I'm not going to stop Smith. I'll let everyone of us, both man and machine, perish." But Neo didn't do that, he saved both and the machines recognized Neo's act of selflessness for the greater good.

Yet that is exactly what Smith was going to do- an entity created by the machines...

Plague- you're equations blew me away, but are very logical. I just have a hard time thinking that's what the W-Brothers had in mind.

=MATT=

James Boba Fettfield
11-06-2003, 09:36 PM
I just realized the Train Man was played by Bruce Spence. When I saw him in the film yesterday I kept thinking he was familiar and it just now came to me through watching Road Warrior. It's the lovable gyro captain.

"A fellow a quick fellow might have a weapon under there. I'd have to pin his head to the panel."

Ok, I know I'm probably the last person to make the Bruce Spence connection, but hey, I take longer than others.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-06-2003, 09:38 PM
He also played one of the animals thief guys from "Ace Ventura: pet Detective" did he not? It looked A LOT like him; i'm pretty sure it was him. The ones who stole the monkey! :D

James Boba Fettfield
11-06-2003, 09:40 PM
I don't know, all I can remember Bruce Spence from is Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome.

Checking the page at IMDB has him as being in Ace Ventura When Nature Calls.

jjreason
11-07-2003, 02:50 AM
It was fine, but a little thin on story/heavy on action for my liking. Im really happy they didn't feed us answers to the burning questions on a silver platter - the real cool part about the Matrix since the beginning is that so much has been left open to interpretation. Im really happy I watched the Animatrix, and I would recommend same to anyone who's left wondering how the world got that way in the first place, or who exactly "Kid" is. I thought he'd have a bigger role, but he turned out to be very important in what little he did, I guess.

I think the story's over. I think Neo's usefulness in the Matrix ended when he "cancelled out" Smith. My impression is that "real" Neo lives, and will play an important role in freeing the humans and recreating the balance between man and machine, as he was able to help them out in their time of need.

I was initially of the opinion that II and III could have been boiled down and made into one sequel, but Im pretty happy they left it the way it is. I didn't need the whole rave or car chase in part II, and the final battle at Zion dragged on for me in part III (likely the cost of watching it starting at 1230am). All in all, Im very happy with the way it panned out.

jeddah
11-07-2003, 04:50 AM
Thanks PlagueMan 79, that is very interesting and more food for thought :)

Also your heory makes me happy because it precludes the return of Neo to satisfy happy-ending audiences. :D

jeddah

plo koon 200
11-07-2003, 11:22 AM
I really don't think happy endings make for a great movie. While most people like them more just look at films like the Godfather, Schindler's List (somewhat happy but barely), Private Ryan, Titanic (it deserves some credit), Gone With the Wind, and a whole slew of others.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-07-2003, 12:24 PM
K, i have some more theories on how Smith got destroyed. K, i was watching some thing on E! briefly this morning; ya know, one of those making of specials and crap. Well, Hugo Weaving (smith) said that they are opposites; one can't exist about the other. Now, this only proves that when one died, the other had to, BUT, it just didn't happen magically it had to have a cause, at least, what i think.

K, Smith had copied himself God only knows how many times, so each time he copied himself, it was the EXACT same copy of himself. So, when Neo went to the Machine City and they booted him in and he started getting his can kicked, and finally copied by Smith they showed the Machine God or whatever kind of giving him a jolt and that's when Neo's body lit up, light extending from his eyes and mouth and whatnot, that's when Smith (the one that was just Neo) started twitching and died. Now, the Machine God thing was able to destroy Smith because throug Neo, Smith was finally plugged back in to the system, thus when one Smith died, the rest are the same, so, each one died. the Matrix had been unable to stop Smith cos he was "unplugged, a new man", remember Smith saying that in "Reloaded?" That make sense? :crazed:

Yeah, Jeremy, that equation crap was OFF the hook, man!! Glad i showed ya to the SSG; we can finally get some more Matrix fanatics defending this fantastic film!! :D

Hellboy
11-08-2003, 06:56 PM
I really enjoyed this movie. :cool:

The battle for Zion was amazing and the APC's were so fun to watch. I think these films will play out nicely when viewed as a whole. I've talked with several people who feel the series got more simplistic with each film and I would somewhat agree but feel there are a lot of things that seem simplistic on the surface but are really quite complex in Revoloutions. I'd have a difficult time picking a favorite in the series because I enjoyed them all. I'll definately see it again theatrically.

Anakin2121
11-08-2003, 11:16 PM
I saw it today and loved it! I think it's my favorite of the three films. I also liked that the movie had almost all epic, orchestral and classical-sounding music, and a nice lack of stupid rock songs.

The action scenes are the absolute best ever put into a movie to date, bar none.

There was something I didn't get, though. As Neo and Trinity approached the Machine City, they saw the "endless fields" where all the humans were plugged into the Matrix. Well, they also had said that "No one has ever gotten within a hundred miles of this city before" or something like that -- and yet, wasn't that where they freed Neo from in the first movie? And wasn't, like, everyone that was freed from the Matrix, taken from that place? :confused:

And also, after Neo died, the machines put him on some platform and lifted him away. Where were they taking him? To dissect his body? :p

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-08-2003, 11:27 PM
yeah, but when he was freed in the first movie, didn't he just slide down a bunch of shoots and land in the human world. I don't think the humans were actually in the fields of those plugged in; there were just chutes equipped for those who were freed...yeah, that kinda makes sense!! :D

I think they were taking neo back to the source; for God knows what. Maybe to study him and use his features for a future program....sequel..hint hint...hehehehheheh :D

plo koon 200
11-09-2003, 01:15 PM
I saw it today and loved it! I think it's my favorite of the three films. I also liked that the movie had almost all epic, orchestral and classical-sounding music, and a nice lack of stupid rock songs.

:p


That was one of the things that I defiently enjoyed.

mrmiller
11-09-2003, 04:52 PM
That was one of the things that I defiently enjoyed.
I agree.

I really liked the soundtracks to the first two moives, so about a week ago I went looking for the Revolutions Soundtrack. All I could find was the soundtrack with the musical score- no real songs. I was pretty dissapointed and thought to myself, "this is gonna suck with no cool music in the movie". Man, was I pleasantly surprised by the score. It gave the movie the more epic feel that it needed being the final of the series. I was/am impressed.

=MATT=

Lman316
11-10-2003, 11:24 AM
I saw the movie last night (9:50 showing), and I really liked it. The only problem(s) that I'm having is that - for me, at least - there were a few questions from Reloaded that were not answered. My apologies to those who may have touched on these already, but there were a lot of posts to read and I may have missed it :p.

This lends back to what the Architect told Neo. I can't remember exactly the words he used, but it was explained that there were other "Ones" before Neo and that Zion had been destroyed five times before. That latter part is emphasized with the Architect's "... and we're becoming quite proficient at it." Then he went on to tell Neo how he would rebuild Zion and how many people he would select to do so...
So, my question is, how exactly were there other "Ones" (I mean, I guess I understand the fact that the "One" can or could re-manifest itself in different forms in the Matrix, but how is it that Morpheus and the others didn't know?)? And the big question is: what was the Architect talking about when he said that Zion had been destroyed five times before?
I had started to believe in the "Matrix inside the Matrix" idea because of this. Zion could have been destroyed five times before if it wasn't real, and the only reason it was there was so the machines could root out or cycle out the anomaly (Neo) inside the Matrix.

Another point I have to make is for those that don't quite buy the peace with the machines. Again, I have to point to something the Architect said. Neo said, "But you need humans to survive." To which the Architect replied, not verbatim here, but he said something like the machines have other ways of desperate survival.
Smith was threatening the machines with extinction. If they could really get desperate, I believe this might include a peace with the humans. It was a way to survive and they had to make good on the deal.

So, again, sorry for those who have already made this points and for those of you who have already explained them. That first part is the only thing bothering me about the Matrix trilogy and I'd hope to get it figured out :D

End...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-10-2003, 01:07 PM
I saw it last night. It was pretty good, but I think Reloaded is my favorite (I'll have to see this one again).

The battle scenes were the coolest of the trilogy, I'll give it that. It was amazing to see the real sky above all those poisoned clouds, and Trinity says "Beautiful." Neo's eyes were disgusting, so was that one guy's face (the one who Kid hung out with). I liked when Neo cut off Bane's head, especially cool in that light-seeing thing!!! :D

I noticed a few things that I thought were interesting:
In the train station, there were Powerade ads, since Powerade sponsors the Matrix. There was also a Tastee Wheat ad, a nice reference to the scene with the late Mouse from M1.
When Neo exploded as Smith, back in the real world he looked like he had a cross on him, like another certain savior.

That cat that the girl talked to at the end . . . was that Smith, or was that supposed to be the black cat from the first one when Neo had deja vu?

billfremore
11-10-2003, 01:54 PM
I saw it last night and as much as I enjoyed it and the last one and the many "Holy $#!+" moments it gave me, the first is still the strongest of the three.

That movie could have easily been left alone and that would have been perfect.

Anakin2121
11-10-2003, 08:22 PM
"... and we're becoming quite proficient at it."

"Efficient."

Also, Neo didn't decapitate Bane with the crowbar. He just bashed him in the head with it. :)

derek
11-10-2003, 09:22 PM
I had started to believe in the "Matrix inside the Matrix" idea because of this. Zion could have been destroyed five times before if it wasn't real, and the only reason it was there was so the machines could root out or cycle out the anomaly (Neo) inside the Matrix.


i was hoping zion would of been a "virtual recycle bin"......still part of the matrix......where the problems humans are stored, and if neo was to save zion, he would of simply saved the "free" humans from being permanetly deleted from the matrix and disposed of. if there was no "real world" i think revoltutions would of been a better film, and better explained neo's real world force powers......instead we got the give peace a chance version, or as i like to call it:The Matrix Revolutions: Can't we all just get along???

and i would of preferred it if the oracle had turned out to be bad. :evil:

Lman316
11-10-2003, 10:00 PM
"Efficient."

"Same difference." And it doesn't help to answer my question.

I thought of something else. Was the change of the actress for the Oracle deliberate? I mean, was that always planned? Or was it they couldn't get the other woman to sign on for a third film?

End...

James Boba Fettfield
11-10-2003, 10:04 PM
It's cause the actress who played the original Oracle died, Lman.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-10-2003, 10:33 PM
Lman- the woman who played the oracle in the previous two films, Gloria Foster, passed away due to complications from diabetes before she did the filming of "Revolutions."
Shame too; i thought she did a tremendous job. I always get a little sad when she appears on screen in "Reloaded."

Lman316
11-10-2003, 10:44 PM
Oh... I hadn't heard. I think she did a good job playing the Oracle in the first two films. I agree it was a shame she wasn't able to play her for a third time.

Thanks for filling me in, though...

End...

plo koon 200
11-11-2003, 10:57 AM
I've been trying to fiugre that out myself since The Enter The Matrix video game.

mrmiller
11-11-2003, 11:17 AM
I wouldn't neccessarily say the Oracle was good either- she kinda had her own agenda to "stir things up" and get what she wanted.

I was watching Reloaded again last night, and still don’t know which is my favorite movie of the series. The fist movie is definitely great, mainly because it has the cool actions scenes, the nice mind twisting plot line, and everything is pretty much explained and wrapped up at the end. The action scenes in Reloaded just blow the others away, and the story is even better now after seeing Revolutions. The problem with Reloaded is not the cryptic speeches themselves, but the number and length of them. The oracle gives a speech, and then Smith gives a small speech. You have the speech by the councilman in Zion and one by the Frenchman (I’ll not dare try and spell his name). Then of course the Architect’s speech. Not counting Agent Smiths small speech, you have 4 long-winded speeches that leave you scratching your head wondering what exactly they are talking about. The worst being the Architect, which I still don’t know if I full understand, visa vie, what the heck? If these would have be shorter or fewer it would have made the movie so much better. It’s not that they are so cryptic, as that’s one of the things that makes it so interesting, it’s just that it’s too much. Besides the first mind-numbing bit in the train station, Revolutions was much better in the mindwarp department. You still had the Oracle and such, but the majority of Revolutions deciphering was more in the actions that took place, not the long winded speeches. A much better approach IMO.

=MATT=

Mandalorian Candidat
11-11-2003, 03:18 PM
I saw Revolutions last Sat. and have to say it was a complete waste of my time and $. I expected an ending where things wouldn't be all wrapped up; it didn't seem to be the W bros' style. However, there wasn't anything that much enjoyable about it for me. The final fight betwixt Smith and Neo was the same thing, ramming into each other over and over causing huge shockwaves. I could have seen the same thing on the Animal Planet when they show mountain rams butting their heads together.

I was thinking, like derek, that things would have been much better if the "real world" would have been a sub-matrix. Then there could have been either a futility message (your choices are already made) or Neo could have transcended his creation (or programming because he could have easily been a rogue program believing he was human) to help mankind.

If you liked it great for you. I was not as novel as the original or the second, that's my complaint and I feel cheated because of it. The plot seems to have been thrown together just to give the message of "can't we all just get along," as others on this thread have said.

If there's a fourth movie, I will be much more discriminating in my choice to see it.

evenflow
11-11-2003, 04:18 PM
I saw Revolutions last Sat. and have to say it was a complete waste of my time and $.

Thank you, i thought i was the only one.

derek
11-11-2003, 05:26 PM
Thank you, i thought i was the only one.

nope, it's 3 against the world. :crazed:

plo koon 200
11-11-2003, 09:47 PM
I've now changed my favorite to Matrix Reloaded. Revoloutions is number two on my list. One is too simple and establishes the Matrix, therefore, my least favorite.

[DSS]Pedr0
11-11-2003, 10:15 PM
Non-Movie Fans All Of You!!! 3 was Good, but the STORY was weak. Eye Candy always saves weak movies. :crazed: :p

aceguide
11-12-2003, 10:21 AM
While I liked Revolutions a lot, I did feel that it was the weakest of the three. It was epic, and had some great action (the Zion attack is intense) it just didn't have the same feel to me as the previous two. I did like how the plot line tied iteself up in the end.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-12-2003, 11:57 AM
I think the second two matrix flicks got a bad wrap cos it was stuff we were "used to" or had seen before from the first film. To try to fix that, the Brothers added in some really amazing scenes that for some reason made the weak minded think that they had "gone light on the plot" but apparently, those people only caught those action scenes and none of the dialogue/plot elements from the 2nd two. Basically, the brothers were damned if they did or damned if they didn't either way they went on the action. I know some of you will argue that you felt the movies just sucked and the plot was wacky and i'm not going to get into a plot arguement here simply because there are numerous replies about how myself and others who dissected the film. I think many of you wanted a definite ending, but the Brothers gave us an ending that made us think.

God forbid. :D

evenflow
11-12-2003, 01:04 PM
Sadly I dont think the brothers were thinking when they decided upon that ending or when they decided to make parts 2 & 3.

Dr Zoltar
11-12-2003, 02:09 PM
I thought of something else. Was the change of the actress for the Oracle deliberate? I mean, was that always planned? Or was it they couldn't get the other woman to sign on for a third film?
I read she died, so they had to recast the part for both the video game and the third movie. I haven't seen either yet, but I heard the change was written into the script fairly well.

Hellboy
11-12-2003, 03:23 PM
I think the second two matrix flicks got a bad wrap cos it was stuff we were "used to" or had seen before from the first film.

I share your feelings JM Guyute.

I think people today when viewing sequels expect to feel the same way they felt when they saw the first movie. The problem is you're never going to feel the same way again because the ideas are already out there and the plot has been established. The sequels are simply an extension of those ideas presented in the first film. So that new exciting feeling isn't as prevalent as the first time and unfortunately people count that against most sequels even if they're part of a continuous story arc. I think the SW prequels suffer from the same bias because people are constantly comparing them to their predecessors instead of just enjoying and appreciating them as another chapter in the SW saga.

Anakin2121
11-13-2003, 12:48 PM
nope, it's 3 against the world. :crazed:
Agreed. :p

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-14-2003, 05:04 PM
I saw this post at the Fangoria boards and HAD to put it here as it sums up exactly the Matrix controversey:

"What soiled little brats movie goers have turned into. We the the little annoying snot balls in the candy store, getting everything we want but not being happy with it even when we do get it. I think that the truth be told, we as a nation of movie goers do not know what we want. We demand this, or that. We say inane things about the movies, and while most of us are the first to b**** about something, when pressed hard about the subject all we say is, “uh huh.. It rocked” or “ It sucks!” Never once bothering to follow this awesome spectacle of cinematic literacy with any type of substantial backing.

The latest on the chopping block is the Matrix Revolutions. A visual and philosophic feast for any movie goer. But alas it also seems to be THE movie to hate right now. There has been so much bad press concerning this movie, for a minute I thought maybe the Wachowskis had cast Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez on accident. But upon my viewing I was unable to find Bennifer or any reason to hate this movie as much as many people are, excepting for a huge need to jump on the all too popular bandwagon of the moment aptly labeled “Matrix Backlash”.

This movie IS exactly what the Wachowski’s promised us in Matrix Revolutons. It is the tying up of the loose threads. It is the culmination of the three movies. It has the hits and it does not over do the style. I do not think the much reviled bullet time was used onece in this film. Maybe a few slo-mo’s but no GAP khaki shots anywhere to be seen. Truth is, this film doesn’t need them. It has too much to do. It has all those delicious questions that were raised in the last movie to answer. It has to tantalize us and seduce us with its vision. Ultimately it has to answer: What is the purpose of the One?

And It does.

These films were never about anything more than A Man seeking out his destiny. I think movie goers got lost along the way, and tried to make it more than it was. Sure the Matrix movies have subtext to spare. There are a million different tangents one could go off on for each and every question or conversation that is held in the movies. Unlike most other films, each conversation in these has the feel to it that It, the conversation at hand, is important. Some more than others, but each opens up a level to the films that was missing or at least occluded before.

Man versus machine has been done so many times. I hate reviews that use direct comparion to ther films, mainly because most of the time it is comparing apples to a**hole. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Like the wretched review posted in USA Today where the reviewer states they prefer Robocop in matters of machine fighting cinema. What the f***? The only attainable link I can make between these two fims is the fact that Geoff Darrow and Frank Miller are both worked in the comic book industry together. But that is it. Why the comparison? Because this reviewer was lost to the movie, and vice versa.

Let me explain. I loved the first Matrix. It was the meshing of Philosophy and kick a** sci fi I had been hoping for, for a long time. Then all of the sudden the Matrix was THE MOVIE to like, and I was appalled by this. How could it be that everyone was liking this film, when it seemed to me that most of the time the average movie goer has the celluloid IQ of a lint trap. I knew that people were not getting this film, they were just falling in love with “an aspect” of it. The SFX, the cybergeek, the style, the music, but no one was loving it for what it was deep underneath. There was more to the reflection on the screen than what most people were seeing. It was a question. Who is the One? OK, that was answered in the first movie. But then again, the first movie also layered on a lot of questions about the state of realtity and the part we each have to play in our own destiny as well as the destinies of those around us. The Wachowskis did not shy away from asking these questions, or even making us think about them repeatedly throughout the film. I highly suspect that the average Joe and Jan at the theatres did not give this a second thought, they just sat there slack jawed and went.. Wow cool!! He bent backwards to avoid the bullets! *Drools stupidity*

Now along comes the Matrix Reloaded and the Matrix Revolutions. This is one movie, and it takes the intimate question of who is this man, and then throws it into a enourmous biblical archetype that stretches the entire story out so far, there is no feasible way to tell the whole thing. AND, at the same time, it raises the stakes by bringing the ideas of causality, determinism, and choice into the mix. This was the down fall of the Matrix, and I feel ultimately it will also be its salvation. The Brothers W put too much faith in the cerebrums of the movie consuming public. They thought we were ready for the uber metaphorical and metaphysical world of anime. But there is a reason that Japanese animation has not caught on in the states. And A lot of it has to with the subtext, with the message, with the brains required to consume it. Sorry Charlie, but it is not there.

The movie goers today do not want to be challenged. They want pander and tripe. The matrix ceases to do this. It wants you to be involved with the events. That is why they made the whole story arc with Jada Pinkett Smiths character be involved with the video game. The movie even refers to the events in the game. This movie franchise needs your active support, mentally. If you are not up to it, then it is going to suck.

Still I do not see how a movie can suck with such visions as 001, the battle for Zion, and the final Battle of Smith and Neo. Never before have I seen such spectacle, and I doubt I ever will again.

So everyone hates the Matrix. Good. I like it. Good. That is the way it should have been from the first place!"

If i ever meet this guy, i'm shaking his hand; brilliant post in my book. cheers!! :D

[DSS]Pedr0
11-14-2003, 07:03 PM
For those who loved it...Who wants to d/l the whole movie for this weekend ONLY!!? I post link in a bit.

mrmiller
11-14-2003, 07:43 PM
Nice JMG. You know, you could sub Star Wars for Matrix and Lucas for Wachowski and it would still be right on.

=MATT=

[DSS]Pedr0
11-14-2003, 08:06 PM
:D :crazed:

plo koon 200
11-14-2003, 08:30 PM
Great post JMG. I think this guy actually has a brain.

plo koon 200
11-14-2003, 08:47 PM
Hey DSS, I downloaded the thing but my realplayer isn't working for some reason.

[DSS]Pedr0
11-14-2003, 08:57 PM
Hey DSS, I downloaded the thing but my realplayer isn't working for some reason.vcd or bsplayer --> http://www.bsplayer.org/html/download.php get the installer

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-14-2003, 09:07 PM
Pedro- how good of quality is this thing?

[DSS]Pedr0
11-14-2003, 09:17 PM
Pedro- how good of quality is this thing?
Umm..'watchable' quality from what I understand, I see it as I can watch it whenever I want now instead of paying to see it again or waiting for the DVD.

James Boba Fettfield
11-15-2003, 06:53 AM
Is this even allowed on the forums?

sith_killer_99
11-15-2003, 11:34 AM
They thought we were ready for the uber metaphorical and metaphysical world of anime. But there is a reason that Japanese animation has not caught on in the states. And A lot of it has to with the subtext, with the message, with the brains required to consume it. Sorry Charlie, but it is not there.

WOW, where does this guy come up with this stuff?

I agree with some of what this guy says...about critics and such bashing this movie. However, most of what he says seems to be aimed towards the "Bash the american public bandwagon". :rolleyes: The very thing he seems to be annoyed with is peoples willingness to go with the flow or trend, yet he follows the US bashing trend very nicely. He continually says "We" then later conveniently excludes himself from the group. :rolleyes:


I loved the first Matrix. It was the meshing of Philosophy and kick a** sci fi I had been hoping for, for a long time. Then all of the sudden the Matrix was THE MOVIE to like, and I was appalled by this.

He was appalled by the fact that a movie he enjoyed was liked by millions, thus ensuring he would see the spectacular follow-ups?!?!? I don't know about anyone else, but when I enjoy a movie I want to share the experience with others and I am excited that it does well.

Most of the people I know have seem this new film and most of them liked it very much. Though they did say it wasn't what they expected. I never did see any of the Matrix movies in the theater. I do understand, somewhat, where this guy is coming from. I didn't go see "The Matrix" when it came out because it was over popular and I was sick of Keaneau Reeves (sp?), I was also afraid it would end up being another Johnny Nemonic rip off.

As for the anime comment. I really don't know where that came from. I have been enjoying anime off and on since the 80's along with a lot of people I know. In the United States anime has seen it's way into popular kids shows, art, comics and a host of other pop culture scenes.

There are intelligent movie goes in the US...they just don't write movie reviews. Those are written by over educated Harvard, Yale and Oxford graduates. They are written by former "Film students" who couldn't make it as an actor/actress, director, producer or anything actually associated with the real world of film making.

But far be it from me to say that anyone is an "annoying brat", "snot ball" or that they have the "celluloid IQ of a lint trap" simply because of their taste in movies.

Too much negativity. So there you have it, my critique of the critics critic.

lol Some times we take ourselves a bit too seriously, after all, it's just a movie.

Beast
11-19-2003, 10:07 PM
From IGN's website. Looks like it's getting a quick release, due to bad box office revenue and internet file sharing. :)

Matrix Revolutions Comes Home

Final installment of the trilogy to hit home just after Christmas.

November 19, 2003 - The Matrix Revolutions is coming home, a little faster than many people might have thought. The final chapter in the trilogy by the Wachowskis will be hitting stores on January 6th, 2004, according to a notification that was sent out to certain retailers earlier today.

IGN FilmForce reported last week that meetings had taken place at Warners regarding an early release of the film to DVD as a response to the film's weak domestic box office and distribution over the Internet. No word on what special features will be included on the disc.
MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Turbowars
11-19-2003, 10:35 PM
Matrix Revolutions Comes Home

Final installment of the trilogy to hit home just after Christmas.

November 19, 2003 - The Matrix Revolutions is coming home, a little faster than many people might have thought. The final chapter in the trilogy by the Wachowskis will be hitting stores on January 6th, 2004, according to a notification that was sent out to certain retailers earlier today.

IGN FilmForce reported last week that meetings had taken place at Warners regarding an early release of the film to DVD as a response to the film's weak domestic box office and distribution over the Internet. No word on what special features will be included on the disc.

Jar Jar BinksA great Special feature should be a screen that lets you forget the Matrix was ever made on film. Oh and another one would be to get back the money and time you wasted.

mrmiller
11-20-2003, 11:22 AM
I think it's cool thaqt it comes out so soon, while the interst mught still be high on the Matrix. And with the simultanious world wide release there is no reason not to do it. I just hope they don't rush it and skip out on the extra features.

=MATT=

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-20-2003, 11:27 AM
A great Special feature should be a screen that lets you forget the Matrix was ever made on film. Oh and another one would be to get back the money and time you wasted.

You hate the films so much, but yet it seems that you'd spend more money to buy a DVD that does all that?!?!? Seems kinda silly if you ask me. :crazed:

I got faith they'll put some good extras on it; it's not like they have to film anything or whatnot, it's usually just behind the scenes crap that is made during the filming of the movie, so it's probably just a matter of deciding what to put on it. cheers! :D

Turbowars
11-20-2003, 07:20 PM
You hate the films so much, but yet it seems that you'd spend more money to buy a DVD that does all that?!?!? Seems kinda silly if you ask me. :crazed: Yeah, I guess I should go and see a Dr about it. ;)

Hellboy
11-20-2003, 08:17 PM
This has got to be the quickest theater to video release ever. I'd wager that before 2004 is over we'll have at least 2 versions of this movie released on DVD because they're going to have to rush this one if they want to meet a 01/04 release date.

James Boba Fettfield
11-20-2003, 08:25 PM
The rumor is Hellboy, before 2004 ends there's going to be a box set release of all the films.

Hellboy
11-20-2003, 10:02 PM
That makes sense JBF. It'll probably come out sometime in the summer so they can release the Director's Cut by next Christmas. :crazed:

James Boba Fettfield
11-20-2003, 10:08 PM
It's hard to decide if I should hold off or not on the box set thing, though. You know it's going to happen....and right now all I own on dvd is the first Matrix.

I'll probably hold off, though. I held off on Daredevil waiting for the Coolio starring R rated version on dvd, and that's finally being released.

Thus is the way of the dvd format, always releasing something bigger and better. Argh, I'm going to hold off and wait for the specs on this box set! I hate buying dvd's of the same films more than once.

Hellboy
11-20-2003, 10:31 PM
I hate buying multiple copies of movies too so unless there is something really sweet included, like deleted scenes incorporated into the film similar to LOTR, I'd probably pass on a box set. I already own the first 2 and I'm not patient enough to wait on getting Revolutions until a set is released.

That's sweet about Daredevil though I wasn't aware of that. I need to catch up on my DVD information. Looks like they're going to get my $ twice on that one. :stupid:

Mandalorian Candidat
11-21-2003, 06:33 PM
This has got to be the quickest theater to video release ever.

If I were the W Brothers I'd wait at least another month. Who'd want to take that distinction from 'From Justin To Kelly'?

James Boba Fettfield
11-21-2003, 06:40 PM
I don't think you have to worry about that anymore, MC.

IGN updated the article yesterday adding this bit of news:


After initial publication of this story on November 19th, representatives of Warner Home Video were quick to dispute the information, stating, "The official street date for The Matrix Revolutions is not January 6th. Currently we plan on announcing the street date in January 2004."

vulcantouch
12-10-2003, 01:35 AM
i have zero interest in the vidgames of today, so does anyone here know of any way to see the "expanded universe" Enter The Matrix footage w/out playing the game? is that where oracle's "i paid a price higher than i expected" line is explained?

hbh: "didn't really understand the kid's part too well"
mrm: "what about the Little Girl?"
-i figured she was gonna be the next oracle; failing that, i'd guess her purposelessness was symbolic, a la the parable about god and the amoebas or tadpoles or whatever, which goes like this: god asks one amoeba "what would you like to do with your life?" and it answers "i'd like to jump", so god makes it a frog; he asks a second, who says "i'd like to fly" so god makes it a bird; a third says "i'd like to swim" so god makes it a fish and so on. then one tells god he's not sure what he wants, so if it's ok he'd prefer to just remain an unspecialized ameoba for the time being. god replies, "in that case i'll make you a human being."
not that those two interps necessarily contradict each other; aside from their oracular function, oracles throughout history have often similarly shunned "specific purpose" :cool:

p79: "We know that when Neo destroyed smith in M1 that each exchanged code. . . Part of the source was now imprinted on (neo)"
-a plausible explanation, but how do we know these things? was it explained in some dialog i missed?

jmg: "they showed the Machine God or whatever kind of giving him a jolt"
-exactly; maybe when the machines saw neo willing to die they were inspired to aid him with a burst of energy, a la vader tossing palpster into the shaft, right? :)

a2121: "a nice lack of stupid rock songs"
-ain't That (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=259455&postcount=214) the damn truth :rolleyes:

hell: "that new exciting feeling isn't as prevalent as the first time and unfortunately people count that against most sequels"
-even if they don't it's still possible to find a sequel lacking; see link below :cool:

derek: "trinity's death speech made qui-gon's look like brilliant writing"
-funny, i said something similar in my MatRevol hump (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=294351&postcount=231); y'all go check it out now, hear?
vt

Beast
01-10-2004, 11:27 AM
Here's the DVD coverart and specs. Can't say I like the specs or the art. If they wanted to do four different covers, why not do that? Instead of cutting the front cover up into four boxes and putting a different image in each. Lame. As for extras, I'm sure they're saving anything good for the coming DVD boxset. Enjoy. :)

Title: Matrix Revolutions
Starring: Keanu Reaves
Released: 6th April 2004
SRP: $29.95

Further Details:
Warner Home Video have kindly sent over all the details on the region one release of Matrix Revolutions which stars Keanu Reaves, Carrie-Anne Moss and Laurence Fishburne. This two disc release will be available to own from the 6th April this year in seperate anamorphic widescreen and full screen editions. Each of these should set you back somewhere in the region of $29.95. The full disc specs for the widescreen edition are attached below along with an exclusive first look at the region one artwork for both releases. We'll bring you menu shots etc as soon as they become available to us. Stay tuned.

2.40:1 Anamorphic Widescreen Presentation
English Dolby Digital 5.1 Track
English Dolby Digital 2.0 Stereo Track
French Dolby Digital 5.1 Track
Matrix Recalibrated (Making Of) Documentary
- Neo Realism: The Evolution of Bullet Time
CG Revolution (Effects) Documentary
- Super Big Mini-Models Segment
Super Burly Brawl Featurette
- Double Agent Smith Segment
- Mind Over Matter: The Physicality of The Matrix
Before the Revolution 3D Timeline
Future Gamer: The Matrix Online (Game) Feature
Multidimensional Stills Gallery
Matrix Revolutions Theatrical Trailer
DVD-ROM Features: Weblink & Matrix Test
English, French, Spanish Subtitles
http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0&s=1&c=2987&n=1&burl=

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Pendo
01-10-2004, 01:27 PM
Urg, that cover art is disgusting :(. It looks so tacky, I could easily be a fake. Also about the specs, why put a trailer on it? None of the other Matrix DVDs have trailers on them!

PENDO!

Turbowars
01-10-2004, 02:03 PM
It makes perfect sense to me, the cover is just as bad as the movies.:classic:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-10-2004, 04:00 PM
This box art is crappy. It's the same ugly junk they had in the newspaper ads and stuff. It's nothing like the first two . . . then again, neither is this movie. There's going to be a box set? When? Since I already have the first two separate and I plan on getting the third that way, I don't think I'll get one.

Beast
01-10-2004, 07:01 PM
The boxset will be totally new versions of the movies, with new in depth extras. Instead of the fluff extras they're doing now. Which is good, cause I'm not a fan of the series at all. Though I may get the boxset, because the last film was the best one. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

DarthBrandon
01-10-2004, 07:17 PM
It makes perfect sense to me, the cover is just as bad as the movies.:classic:

I agree 100%, crappy cover, crappy series(should have been left alone after the first one). IMO :D

Mandalorian Candidat
01-12-2004, 07:22 PM
I'm actually glad they have that cover art. It's like psychadelic colors on a Brazilian jungle frog that let predators know that they're poisonous. This way Warner Bros. is warning the observant and intelligent portion of society to avoid this DVD like the plague.

$30 for a two-disc set...who're they kidding?

Beast
01-12-2004, 07:27 PM
That's the MSRP, and that's commen for most 2-disc sets. That's why you buy them on release date. Cause you can get a decent deal on them. Like Freddy vs. Jason, it has a 29.99 MSRP. And it's selling for 15.99 at most places on release date. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks