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General_Grievous
05-04-2008, 02:43 PM
Giant ants, huh? Is this "Indiana Jones" or "Honey I Shrunk The Kids"? Why not go for more realistic creepy crawling things, like scorpions?

bigbarada
05-04-2008, 02:50 PM
Oooo, ants! Good choice!:thumbsup:

I have a real world fear of ants that originated from a situation very similar to how Indy developed his fear of snakes. When I was in kindergarten, I unknowingly sat on an anthill and within minutes I was covered in them from head to toe. I freaked out and ran all the way home and jumped into the shower fully clothed to wash them all off. I had nightmares of ants for years after that. If I see one or two ants here or there, it's no big deal, but large numbers of them still make me very apprehensive.

bigbarada
05-04-2008, 02:53 PM
Giant ants, huh? Is this "Indiana Jones" or "Honey I Shrunk The Kids"? Why not go for more realistic creepy crawling things, like scorpions?

I'm hoping "giant" ants refers to them being only 1-2 inches long, not the size of a horse. There is definitely a danger that they can take the CG effects too far and destroy the credibility of the story.

Beast
05-04-2008, 02:57 PM
Depends how it plays. After all, the films do have a supernatural element to them after all. And so far I'm liking what I see from the trailers and the toys. :)

bigbarada
05-04-2008, 03:08 PM
double post

bigbarada
05-04-2008, 03:15 PM
Yes, they have supernatural elements, but the films have always been very deliberately grounded in reality. Otherwise, it would just be Star Wars set on Earth.

There has never been a single unearthly creature in an Indiana Jones film and the only times that ILM had to create fake animals were the instances when using the real version would have been too dangerous to the actors or the animals themselves (setting the rats on fire in Last Crusade).

So, I'm just naturally averse to seeing otherworldly CG beasts showing up in an Indiana Jones film. HOWEVER, I'm not going to pass judgement until I see the movie.

Tycho
05-05-2008, 01:56 AM
Indiana Jones and the Bordello of Doom!

Haha. No kidding. In Young Indiana Jones, Vol 1 Disc 8, Indy and his cousin Frank (father's brother's son) take a trip across New Mexico to find some prostitutes, his first quest for one version of the Holy Grail. ;)

This is over Spring Break from high school in New Jersey and he's cheating on his presumed first girlfriend, Nancy Strattemeyer. Her father is the author of the Tom Swift novels about auto racing or something.

During the course of their relationship, as World War One breaks out, German spies steal the secret plans for Thomas Eddison's electric car. But it's actually not the Germans, but U.S. oil companies working in collusion to prevent the invention of the battery powered car, so that they can continue to control the economy through gasoline prices. Huh. What rang true in 1915 or so resounds quite familiar in 2008, doesn't it? George Lucas scripted this around the mid-90's though.

The prices of gasoline and prostitutes have both gone up.

UPDATE: Indy never made it to Columbus, New Mexico. He winds up defending a prostitute against robbery by a member of Poncho Villa's gang as they attack targets in the US, and ironically runs away from home and joins the gang for a while. Indy participates in a daring attack using a hijacked train to ram through the walls of a fortified southwestern city during a bank robbery to raise the money for more firearms for Villa. US General Pershing engages them and Indy is given his first gun. Then the first man he actually shoots is an American! There's a twist. Disillusioned with all the fighting for Poncho Villa and raids against his own country, Indy decides to run away again with a Belgian who wants to fight for France in WWI and they make plans to head for Europe. Indy would not yet have graduated high school at this time.

And oh, his relationship with his father is severely strained since the death of his mother from a severe bout with the flu that occured when he was approximately 13. So by 16-17, he is leaving home, bound for war-torn Europe, possibly to fight for France.

Sean Patrick Flannery is now playing young Indy as a teen. This action takes place sometime after the adventure River Phoenix played Indy in during the beginning of The Last Crusade (he has the hat at this point, and learns to use the whip) But there is so much action and stunts, explosions, and weapons firing, that this one plays like a real Indiana Jones MOVIE. It was well worth watching for sure!!!

I'm going to watch it a 2nd time immediately!

Tycho
05-06-2008, 10:22 AM
Interesting, in the documentaries, I learned that Nancy Stratemeyer (Indiana Jones' high school girlfriend) inspired her father to create the character of Nancy Drew. Her father used a pen name to pretend he was the female author of the Nancy Drew mysteries. In fact, a writers' syndicate was at work under his house, publishing under that female author's pen name - and some of the writers were women. Strattemeyer was also Frank W. Dixon - the author of The Hardy Boys - his earlier creation!

In another documentary, that examines invention since Indy helps Thomas Eddison, I learned about a living inventor Kaeman, who ironically created much about the process of dialysis, which might very well be used to keep me alive! He is also working on an engine that does not rely on fossil fuels, which could make us energy independent sooner than later! If this guy's inventors succeed, we won't be worried about paying that high price at the gas pump!

The Young Indiana Jones series is incredible! It keeps getting better the further into the series I watch. It's approaching Indy's involvement in WWI now, as he ran away from his father at 16 or 17, to join the French to fight the Germans. I have no idea what's going to happen next.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-07-2008, 06:31 PM
Glad you're enjoying the series, Tycho! I keep waiting for these 3 sets to drop in price. From what I've seen of the series, i liked, but i'm a huge nut for documentaries about history and historical characters, so the extras are really going to be where its at for me.

And a heads up: Sci Fi has a documentary about the legend of Crystal Skulls, airs Sunday May 18th, at 9 pm. I'll be watching! :thumbsup:

Tycho
05-07-2008, 09:25 PM
I keep waiting for these 3 sets to drop in price.

Good luck in that. [/sarcasm] Star Trek has had every season going for like $100 for years with never a discount so far as I can tell. I think with Indy, they might do that as well. Especially now, going INTO a new movie. In a few years? Maybe. Band of Brothers finally dropped in price about a year or two ago and I picked that up, but I wasn't really waiting for a price drop - but rather just the right time to set aside to watch all of that (also well worth it).


but i'm a huge nut for documentaries about history and historical characters, so the extras are really going to be where its at for me.

I'd say we share those tastes pretty evenly. :thumbsup:


And a heads up: Sci Fi has a documentary about the legend of Crystal Skulls, airs Sunday May 18th, at 9 pm. I'll be watching!

Thanks. I'm interested in that as well. I know nothing about the Crystal Skull legend and haven't really followed spoilers about this movie either. I'm at the stage where I might get into exploring it though - but a documentary show would be a great way to relax and do that as opposed to say, reading Wikipedia, which I'm currently just not in the mood to do.

I might go on Wiki later though. Hehe. Posting about that option somehow just made it more tempting.

I look up stuff on Wiki a lot - like Serejevo / Bosnia, and so forth. Actually the Young Indy series WWI documentaries really explained the Serbian thing well with maps and everything so I "get it," better than I ever did before.

The Soviet Union had forced different ethnic groups with different religious customs to live under one state government (Yugoslavia) and these groups acted very "tribal" and wanted separate nations, like Serbia, and to annex any areas to their new countries that had high percentages of their ethnic group living in them. That's like Mexico wanting to take back California by way of comparison. Terrorists assassinated the nephew of the Austria-Hungarian Emperor that sparked Austria-Hungary to try and use that as an excuse to annex Serbia, sparking WWI (and Germany was allied to Austria-Hungary).

I'm sure you know this (Guyute), but others may not otherwise research it and learn it - and it's not as commonly known as say WWII's story with Hitler trying to rule Europe and Japan bombing Pearl Harbor and everything being so obvious.

I glossed over so much detail (Otto Bismark, Germany's econonic situation before Hitler, etc.) but that's more than people will read in my post. There's Wikipedia or Indiana Jones for possible sources if you want to know more.

I find it all fascinating!

RooJay
05-08-2008, 02:41 AM
Glad you're enjoying the series, Tycho! I keep waiting for these 3 sets to drop in price.

I agree, wicked pricey these are. Not that I don't think they're worth it, just that that's a huge chunk of change to drop all at once! It was the same way with Brisco County Jr. - I'd been waiting forever for the DVD, and was a little disheartened when it finally hit and the retail was 80 bucks plus! I don't think I'd even own that one yet if my wife hadn't been nice enough to buy it for me for Christmas. Great show, though, if you don't mind spending the money on it.

jonthejedi
05-08-2008, 04:00 AM
I also have held off, due to the $79@ pricetag. I don't understand how you can get new or current series for under $40(sale, usually), and series that are 10 to 20 years old have skyrocketed prices. I have the Young Indy VHS tapes that were released some years back. I wish they would have released the orig. aired versions from ABC with the main title them and the "Old Indy" bookends.

Tycho
05-08-2008, 07:49 AM
I wish they would have released the orig. aired versions from ABC with the main title them and the "Old Indy" bookends.

Please tell me about those.

Blue2th
05-08-2008, 09:21 AM
Indiana Jones and the Bordello of Doom!


During the course of their relationship, as World War One breaks out, German spies steal the secret plans for Thomas Eddison's electric car. But it's actually not the Germans, but U.S. oil companies working in collusion to prevent the invention of the battery powered car, so that they can continue to control the economy through gasoline prices. Huh. What rang true in 1915 or so resounds quite familiar in 2008, doesn't it? George Lucas scripted this around the mid-90's though.

The prices of gasoline and prostitutes have both gone up.


!
This scenario kinda actually happened, but it was Diesel who made an engine that could run on vegetable oil. If he wouldn't have mysteriously dissapeared after his invention, we all might be driving around on french fry grease. http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/diesel.html

I really liked The Young Indy Chronicles when they were on TV, but the pricetag for the DVD's is ouch right now.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-08-2008, 11:09 AM
Please tell me about those.

These scenes were in the series when they originally aired and featured an OLD version of Indy working at a museum. Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP1XQK8cUrg

I believe they were cut for the DVD release though, which is fine with me actually. :thumbsup:

DarthQuack
05-08-2008, 01:17 PM
Is it really worth it to get the new DVD's that just came out, I mean I feel like the smart thing to do would be holding out for a box set once they decide they're really done with the series.

Tycho
05-08-2008, 03:35 PM
These scenes were in the series when they originally aired and featured an OLD version of Indy working at a museum. Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP1XQK8cUrg

I believe they were cut for the DVD release though, which is fine with me actually. :thumbsup:

That was cool to see. Thanks for sharing. I rather liked it actually.

They cast Old Indy pretty well from the small clip I saw.

I never thought about what he'd be like, but that version works.

The young Indy was written like Anakin with Padme for the scenes in England with girlfriend Vikki when they were out amongst the flowers for a picnic. That's not a criticism, though I know it will be for some who couldn't stand AOTC.

It just seems like Lucas has a singular vision for a love motiff.

Droid
05-08-2008, 04:22 PM
Those old Indy bits always played like an afterschool special. Just terrible.

El Chuxter
05-08-2008, 04:25 PM
Dadburnt whippersnappers! Get off my lawn, er I'll tan yer hides with my Ark of that there Cov'nant!

El Chuxter
05-09-2008, 03:03 PM
Okay, I have to admit that the latest spots running on TV look pretty good. A LOT better than that trailer. I'm kinda looking forward to this despite myself now, but I still think I'll wait until getting some feedback. After watching SW go to pot, I don't think I can stand the same happening to Indy.

Tycho
05-09-2008, 03:35 PM
After watching SW go to pot, I don't think I can stand the same happening to Indy.

Indy's going to go to Pot?

That would be a great follow-up to:

"Raiders of the Lost Bong"

"Indiana's Jonsing for the Tornequet of Doom"

"Indiana's Jonsing for the Last Cocaine"

These are classics with chances for guest appearances by Harold and Kumar, perhaps one as the adult Short Round.

JediTricks
05-09-2008, 06:12 PM
In another documentary, that examines invention since Indy helps Thomas Eddison, I learned about a living inventor Kaeman, who ironically created much about the process of dialysis, which might very well be used to keep me alive! He is also working on an engine that does not rely on fossil fuels, which could make us energy independent sooner than later! If this guy's inventors succeed, we won't be worried about paying that high price at the gas pump!This is what I'm talking about, this is Lucas' skew, it's not really wise to take it as accurate. Dean Kamen didn't invent jack squat about the process of dialysis, he merely invented a smaller, portable dialysis system - that's it, nothing so grand as suggested.


Those old Indy bits always played like an afterschool special. Just terrible.
Utterly agreed, so cloying and obnoxiously cute and not at all Indy. I hated those parts.



Okay, I have to admit that the latest spots running on TV look pretty good. A LOT better than that trailer. I'm kinda looking forward to this despite myself now, but I still think I'll wait until getting some feedback. After watching SW go to pot, I don't think I can stand the same happening to Indy.To me, that's what Young Indy already did for the character. I'm not looking forward to this movie on the merits, but now that I have this Whipping Indy figure, I just do want to see more Indy so I'm happy it's coming... I'd be happier if it didn't crap on the Indy saga though, but Shia LeBouf as the teenage sidekick alone reeks of Lucas' mind deteriorating.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-09-2008, 06:44 PM
Shia LeBouf as the teenage sidekick alone reeks of Lucas' mind deteriorating.
It "reeks" more of Steven Spielberg being in love with this guy after he worked with him on Transformers. No?

El Chuxter
05-09-2008, 06:47 PM
Steven Spielberg has known Shia LeBouf.

I meant they worked together. Jeez, get your mind out of the gutter.

2-1B
05-09-2008, 08:40 PM
I think Steven and George both had their hands in it...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-09-2008, 09:35 PM
I just saw the most recent trailer (http://www.indianajones.com/site/?deeplink=videos/2/v35&utm_source=widgetlink&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=videos&utm_campaign=indianajoneswidget) and I keep getting more excited for this. It looks great! I think tomorrow I'll watch Last Crusade and then be all caught up.

I've also been watching the Young Indy show a little bit (though they play it out of order on the History Channel). Overall I like it, but the constant re-dubbing of lines is obvious and annoying.

plasticfetish
05-09-2008, 09:58 PM
Oooo, ants! Good choice!

Did someone mention giant fire ants?

(Mild SPOILER image below...)

Tycho
05-09-2008, 10:50 PM
That's an ant? I have an Uncle that's scarier!

Mad Slanted Powers
05-09-2008, 11:46 PM
That's an ant? I have an Uncle that's scarier!

Their strength is in their numbers.

General_Grievous
05-09-2008, 11:47 PM
I'd be happier if it didn't crap on the Indy saga though, but Shia LeBouf as the teenage sidekick alone reeks of Lucas' mind deteriorating.
That's Spielberg's doing, not Lucas's. But Shia LaBeouf isn't so bad. I thought he was good in "Transformers". And I think he'll make a much better sidekick for Indy than the kid from "Dodgeball" did for John McClane in "Live Free or Die Hard".

Did someone mention giant fire ants?

(Mild SPOILER image below...)
Is it wrong that I think the giant fire ant is cute? :neutral:

Tycho
05-10-2008, 12:30 AM
Their strength is in their numbers.

A bunch of like-minded people similar to my uncle and gathered together has dangerous strength in numbers. However, the name for this political party must be reserved to the Rancor Pit.

Still, it's pretty scary.

Beast
05-10-2008, 11:47 PM
Did someone mention giant fire ants?

(Mild SPOILER image below...)
Thankfully the 12" Dovchenko figure gives us some scale for these beasties.

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_004W113784110006P

Tycho
05-11-2008, 02:48 AM
Beast, because of you I bought that first Vol. of Young Indy. I really liked it.

I've now bought the 2nd Vol. and liked the first episode so much I'm watching it a 2nd time before I even get to the others.

I also love the documentaries as I'm fascinated by history and Young Indy does a great job.

I wanted to say thank you for the great recommendation.

plasticfetish
05-11-2008, 02:54 AM
Thankfully the 12" Dovchenko figure gives us some scale for these beasties.Yeah okay, that scale seems to make sense. Not that I wouldn't enjoy it if the ants were 5 feet long also.

Tycho
05-11-2008, 02:58 AM
You mean like in Disney's "Honey I Shrunk Indiana Jones?" :crazed:

Beast
05-11-2008, 11:21 AM
Yeah okay, that scale seems to make sense. Not that I wouldn't enjoy it if the ants were 5 feet long also.
Yeah, when I saw 'Giant Ants' mentioned, I was worried a bit as well.

But thankfully they're not like 'GIANT' Giant Ants. So it works for me. :)

bigbarada
05-11-2008, 12:08 PM
Yeah, when I saw 'Giant Ants' mentioned, I was worried a bit as well.

But thankfully they're not like 'GIANT' Giant Ants. So it works for me. :)

I'm thinking that they might even be smaller in the movie and the scale has just been enlarged for the toy. Which is awesome, because even 1" long is giant for an ant.

As for being scary, of course their not scary by themselves; but neither are rats or snakes. It's the massive numbers of them that makes them frightening and destructive.

Interesting fact about Army Ants in the rain forest is that if you were to weigh them all together, they would outweigh any other group of animal in the rain forest.

Source: http://www.msu.edu/user/urquhart/tour/eciton.html

Tycho
05-11-2008, 12:26 PM
A rattlesnake or python, anaconda in the water you've fallen into, etc. are all pretty scary snakes all by themselves.

If a rat got into your home and very well might have rabies or an open wound from an encounter with a trap or a cat, it also might be pretty scary. Oppossums look like giant rats and they are pretty scary.

While ants are somehow not as gross as beetles, waterbugs, or cockroaches, any one of those things by themselves freaks me out.

No, I'm sorry. I rank all these things even by themselves scarier than Britney Spears.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-11-2008, 01:08 PM
I was looking up giant fire ants last night and came across a video of a pretty big one tearing apart an earthworm.

I could have saved some money on the Young Indy series if I had got them all at Costco. I got the first volume there but hadn't seen the other two. Yesterday I saw all three. I could have saved $10 on volume three compared to what I payed at Target.

I just watched the Perils of Cupid episode yesterday.

bigbarada
05-11-2008, 01:57 PM
A rattlesnake or python, anaconda in the water you've fallen into, etc. are all pretty scary snakes all by themselves.

If a rat got into your home and very well might have rabies or an open wound from an encounter with a trap or a cat, it also might be pretty scary. Oppossums look like giant rats and they are pretty scary.

While ants are somehow not as gross as beetles, waterbugs, or cockroaches, any one of those things by themselves freaks me out.

No, I'm sorry. I rank all these things even by themselves scarier than Britney Spears.

Well, that's just your personal opinion. For me, rats are cute, not scary at all. Same with snakes, some of them are dangerous, but they're not scary to me. Now, insects and spiders, that's a different story. :eek:

Tycho
05-11-2008, 11:35 PM
I just watched the Perils of Cupid episode yesterday.

That was the one where Indy falls in love with the daughter of the Archduke of the Austria-Hungarian Empire, right?

The documentaries about the escalation to WWI are awesome if you take a few minutes to get into them.

I think it was "Passion for Life," and his trip to pre-War France where he met all the artists that I learned I have a strong appreciation for Norman Rockwell. I'm not so much a Picasso fan. It's interesting, but I prefer Rockwell - and if I had money to buy art, that's where I'd spend it.

I love how the Young Indy series opens your eyes to learning about so many different things to do with the arts, politics, culture, and history.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-11-2008, 11:50 PM
That was the one where Indy falls in love with the daughter of the Archduke of the Austria-Hungarian Empire, right?

The documentaries about the escalation to WWI are awesome if you take a few minutes to get into them.

I think it was "Passion for Life," and his trip to pre-War France where he met all the artists that I learned I have a strong appreciation for Norman Rockwell. I'm not so much a Picasso fan. It's interesting, but I prefer Rockwell - and if I had money to buy art, that's where I'd spend it.

I love how the Young Indy series opens your eyes to learning about so many different things to do with the arts, politics, culture, and history.
Indeed, that was why I liked it as well. I don't remember much of the young Young Indy stories. Back when they were first shown, they alternated between older Indy and younger Indy. I think the first episode I saw was the one with older Indy heading to Mexico.

Today I watched the documentaries on Puccini, opera, and the Arch-Duke. Sad that he was assassinated because it sounded like he was interested in putting forward some of the reforms that would have given more power to the people and included the other ethnic groups. I think I'll go watch the powder keg one before I go to bed.

Tycho
05-12-2008, 02:56 AM
I'll have to watch that one about the Archduke again myself (the documentary).

On MySpace I started a dialogue with some (presumed) Serbians who live in the United States now, but who posted very partisan things in a discussion they seemed to be having just amongst themselves. But it was a public forum (World News). So I asked what they could tell me about their position, but got no response thus far.

As an outsider, it would seem logical to partician the areas / regions up by ethnicity, or where the majority of each ethnicity located. However, I'm afraid I'm ignorant of what those borders might look like once they are drawn. It might be "gerrymandered" too severely to be handled by peoples with a history of violence between them.

Of course my answer to any religious fanaticism is that we must destroy religion. I don't think "God" is our enemy necessarily, but organized traditions in which different cultures seek his allegiance are. The churches, temples, and mosques must be destroyed and people should keep their faith in their bedroom.

I know just a fraction of a bit more about Israel and the Middle East. There the Palestinians could have statehood in the Gaza and the West Bank - perhaps divided, perhaps united. If hostilities would cease, at some point they could more easily gain Israeli citizenship if they really want to live in Israel proper. I don't think they are the type of Mulsems who want a Taliban regime running things - Hammas and Hezbollah do not seem that conservative by comparison to the Taliban. If so, then a Western nation and its people are less of a threat to them. However, Westernism threatens Iran's mulluhs terribly, even though Iran's population doesn't agree with them as much as they claim. But so long as Iran has a chance to prop up more conservatives amongst the terrorists they sponsor...

I think the first documentaries on T.E. Lawrence and the goings-on in Syria and then the Palestianian Territory of the Ottoman Empire were very informative about this subject. I had not previously known how bad England and France had messed with Arabic politics over there. No wonder they hate the West so much. Look at Syria's history. I was quite surprised.

JediTricks
05-12-2008, 03:42 AM
So, I hit Iron Man again tonight, and again the Indy trailer got a big applause and excitement, while the The Dark Knight trailer got only a slight noise.


It "reeks" more of Steven Spielberg being in love with this guy after he worked with him on Transformers. No?Riiiiiight, like Spielberg had anything to do with that film besides putting his name on it as exec producer and then lying about how much of a fan he was. The guy never participated with the moviemaking aspect or visited the set, from what I understand. If anything, the connection is more about Paramount who made Transformers and Indy, and Disturbia. But I doubt Paramount would actually convince Lucas to write Shia TheBeef into a movie on their sayso, he's pretty picky and powerful enough to just not make the film.


That's Spielberg's doing, not Lucas's. But Shia LaBeouf isn't so bad. I thought he was good in "Transformers". I'm just not buying this, Lucas made this movie not happen for almost a decade because he didn't agree on the tone, if he didn't want the teenage sidekick in the film, I don't think he would have allowed it. Yet here we have a teenage sidekick, the prequels had the same thing, the Clone Wars cartoon has a new one, Young Indy reeks of that sort of thinking - Lucas loves children and wants to keep throwing them at us.


All this talk of Young Indy makes me sad, that show just sucked so badly, so not Indy. Hopefully it's not a timeframe issue that caused that, that Indy works as an adult in any reasonable timeframe.

Tycho
05-12-2008, 03:40 PM
When you get to Young Indy, Vol 2, there's another movie, Behind the Lines that was made which also focusses on British war hero / poet Siegfried Sassoon. It's a good movie. I found it several years ago while trying to find more stuff set during WWI.

It takes place mostly while he's in a mental patients' sanctuary that's treating PTSD, but his true story is in full play.

The Young Indy stuff has been just excellent!

Beast
05-12-2008, 10:07 PM
I guess the Indiana Jones Burger King promotion is now in full swing.

Images of the various toys here, for those that collect them.

http://www.wellofthesouls.com/bk.php

plasticfetish
05-13-2008, 01:03 AM
Mmmm, Burger King is dead to me.

The last two times that we've driven through, and ordered a kid's meal to get whatever advertised toy they had going, they ended up putting some POC substitute in the bag. We'd order, then look in the bag and say, "What's this thing?" and the guy would respond, "We're out of the other things." Then I'd say, "Why didn't you mention that when I ordered the f***ing overpriced kid's meal?" and he'd respond, "You don't want a bobblehead of some football player from two years ago instead?" Then I'd say, "No. If I wanted that, I'd go to a dumpster behind a thrift store." and then he'd offer us (mind you, my son is 10 now) a baby rattle instead.

Seriously... I like nothing more than kid's meal promo toy junk like that, but "The King" can bite me.

(Rant over.)

figrin bran
05-13-2008, 02:13 AM
At most BK locations, you should be able to buy the toys without a meal purchase and even have them show you what's currently available.

plasticfetish
05-13-2008, 03:01 AM
Yeah, I know.

The point was really about how lame their customer service is, and how if I'm (not that I will anymore) going through the drive through, I shouldn't have to quiz the burger-clerk about what they do and don't have.

If there's a huge banner on the side of your store promoting something, then you really need have that thing available... or take the sign down. Otherwise, it's bait-and-switch, which may be legal because they always state that availabilty is limited, but there's no excuse for being rude, stupid, and a weasel.

Anyway, I had enough after all the times that I'd heard about employees cherry picking hard to find Star Wars stuff, so they could sell it eBay.

Droid
05-13-2008, 09:35 AM
Did anyone catch the UFO toy? Doesn't help my worries about this film.

RooJay
05-14-2008, 02:32 AM
Did anyone catch the UFO toy? Doesn't help my worries about this film.

Catch it where? No, I can't say that I did. Care to enlighten?

Droid
05-14-2008, 09:53 AM
Catch it where? No, I can't say that I did. Care to enlighten?

In the link of Indiana Jones Burger King toys on the prior page of this thread. There is a flying saucer toy.

El Chuxter
05-14-2008, 10:04 AM
Okay, now I'm worried again to the point of uninterest.

Aliens have no place in Indiana Jones. Why don't we go back and digitally insert hip-hop singing ninjas into Casablanca instead?

figrin bran
05-14-2008, 11:04 AM
I think the movie is going along the premise that the crystal skull is alien in origin. It's not like you're going to see Rodians running all over the place.

Beast
05-14-2008, 11:25 AM
Considering all the legends and myths about aliens being tied to the evolution of primative humanity, the pyramids, etc. I don't see how involving aliens in the Indiana Jones franchise is such a huge leap. Just watch some of those documentaries where they point to these possible links from hieroglyphic. In fact the legends surrounding the crystal skulls have often been tied with aliens as well.

The first and third films were all about searching for artifacts that were based around the search for the Ultimate Truth in regard to Christian Mythology. So I don't see what the big deal is if this particular film goes in another direction and explores the search for the Ultimate Truth behind all these legends and myths from the dawn of recorded history about aliens having some sort of influence on humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theories

Tycho
05-14-2008, 11:28 AM
Is Tom Cruise going to have a cameo in this movie? I think it sounds like he should!

Beast
05-14-2008, 11:48 AM
Shia LeBouf as the teenage sidekick alone reeks of Lucas' mind deteriorating.

It "reeks" more of Steven Spielberg being in love with this guy after he worked with him on Transformers. No?
Jabba JohnL's right. Spielburg is the one behind casting Shia Labeouf.

Check out 'The Indiana Jones Diaries' from May's issue of Empire Magazine. ;)

El Chuxter
05-14-2008, 02:31 PM
Just because ancient astronaut theories exist and a few people believe them, that doesn't mean they belong in Indiana Jones. It's like sticking a giant Honda Accord driven by Mr T into Star Wars leading the Rebel fleet.

Introducing the "ancient societies were so seemingly advanced because they were really ruled by aliens" card into Indiana Jones undermines the mystery of the first three movies, which were clearly 100% supernatural and based in ancient religions and mythology--not some bunk some guy came up with in the 1920s. I could overlook the falseness of the myth if aliens weren't involved. That's more unforgiveable to me than the ludicrousness of all three Star Wars prequels combined.

Does Indy now fall into the same universe as ET or Close Encounters?

Looks like I'm out... again.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-14-2008, 03:08 PM
Just because ancient astronaut theories exist and a few people believe them, that doesn't mean they belong in Indiana Jones. It's like sticking a giant Honda Accord driven by Mr T into Star Wars leading the Rebel fleet.

Introducing the "ancient societies were so seemingly advanced because they were really ruled by aliens" card into Indiana Jones undermines the mystery of the first three movies, which were clearly 100% supernatural and based in ancient religions and mythology--not some bunk some guy came up with in the 1920s. I could overlook the falseness of the myth if aliens weren't involved. That's more unforgiveable to me than the ludicrousness of all three Star Wars prequels combined.

Does Indy now fall into the same universe as ET or Close Encounters?

Looks like I'm out... again.

Hey, surprise surprise, Chux is angry about something. How about you just go watch the movie next week and then decide your opinion? I guess that'd be too hard though, eh? :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
05-14-2008, 03:23 PM
I'm not angry and I'm not sure what I said to give you the impression of "anger." I'm a little disappointed, maybe, since the recent info had really changed my mind on whether I wanted to see this movie.

I just know that, based on my tastes, aliens in Indiana Jones is not something I'd like. So are you saying I should arrange and pay for a babysitter, drive thirty miles to the nearest theater, and pay $15 or more for tickets, for a movie that I have a pretty good idea that I won't like? That's an investment of around $80, assuming we don't eat any food or anything.

And, really, it's not all that different from you seeing a trailer for, say, What Happens in Vegas (a movie I'm sure we can both agree looks like arse on a plate) and making a decision that you probably won't enjoy it? There's a huge difference between "Argh, I hate this movie that I've not seen and will never see because it sucks" and "I don't think I'm going to like this movie, so I'm not paying to see it."

Tycho
05-14-2008, 03:24 PM
Chux, it will be alright. We'll see L. Ron Hubbard portrayed in this film, and at one point we'll be witness to Tom Cruise's virgin birth. Everything will make sense then.

Droid
05-14-2008, 03:52 PM
How about you just go watch the movie next week and then decide your opinion?

It is pretty clear there is going to be an alien angle to the story if not actual aliens shown. (Anyone else think the aliens will come and take their Crystal Skull back at the end of the movie?)

Why can't I prejudge that I don't want aliens in an Indiana Jones movie? I feel it goes against everything Indiana Jones was about to date?

Would we all have to adopt a wait and see attitude if Indiana Jones was going for Vlad the Impaler's pike or something and the movie was going to involve vampires? Some things are a bad idea from the drawing board. Once the path is set that the movie will be founded on bad iedeas the quality of the execution is meaningless. I feel that way about the prequels. I felt that way about Transformers and passed. I may pass on Indy IV. I will likely pass on G.I. Joe.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-14-2008, 04:42 PM
I just don't get how everybody can be alright when two of the films revolve around Christian theology and whatnot while another film deals with other views of religion and suddenly, there is something new added to the mix and people are irritated? I just don't get how people can be alright with one and not the other.

Beast
05-14-2008, 06:05 PM
Just because ancient astronaut theories exist and a few people believe them, that doesn't mean they belong in Indiana Jones. It's like sticking a giant Honda Accord driven by Mr T into Star Wars leading the Rebel fleet.
Just because Christian God theories exist and a few people believe them, that doesn't mean they belong in Indiana Jones.

There... now we're on the same page. The second movie had nothing to do with a search for religious artifacts. And was about a freakin' cult and voodoo and such. So why can't the fourth film deviate into something like this. Especially when there are theories related to it in relation to the actual Crystal Skull artifacts.

Tycho
05-14-2008, 06:43 PM
The second movie had nothing to do with a search for religious artifacts.

Actually it did. The movie caught Indy searching for the lost Shankara stones which paid tribute to Shiva. Remember what he told Shortround about them? "They're fortune and glory."

Meanwhile, I'm loving the Vol 2 episode of Young Indy where he has to blow up the huge German gun they're moving by train. It's starting to pick up the flair for humor that the original movies had (especially Raiders).

Beast
05-14-2008, 07:10 PM
I'm more referring to Christian Religious Artifacts.

And the Sankara Stones don't have a easily relatable real life counterpart.

The Shiva Lingam Stones would be similar. But not really.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-14-2008, 07:13 PM
Actually it did. The movie caught Indy searching for the lost Shankara stones which paid tribute to Shiva. Remember what he told Shortround about them? "They're fortune and glory."

Meanwhile, I'm loving the Vol 2 episode of Young Indy where he has to blow up the huge German gun they're moving by train. It's starting to pick up the flair for humor that the original movies had (especially Raiders).

I think what Binks was going for was that the stones were more of the occult than an actual religion?

edit: hahhaah nicely played, Binks!
And great point, Binks. I was trying to go for that, but you put it in much better words than I did. Agree with you on both points. :thumbsup:

Mad Slanted Powers
05-14-2008, 07:22 PM
Considering all the legends and myths about aliens being tied to the evolution of primative humanity, the pyramids, etc. I don't see how involving aliens in the Indiana Jones franchise is such a huge leap. Just watch some of those documentaries where they point to these possible links from hieroglyphic. In fact the legends surrounding the crystal skulls have often been tied with aliens as well.

The first and third films were all about searching for artifacts that were based around the search for the Ultimate Truth in regard to Christian Mythology. So I don't see what the big deal is if this particular film goes in another direction and explores the search for the Ultimate Truth behind all these legends and myths from the dawn of recorded history about aliens having some sort of influence on humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theoriesI agree. I don't see a problem with the alien angle if it is done in the way that conveys to me the same sort of sense of mysticism and awe that I feel when watching those sort of documentaries about ancient civilizations and possible connections to aliens. That's the same sort of feeling Raiders gave me, especially when the right music was playing.

figrin bran
05-14-2008, 10:22 PM
I'm not angry and I'm not sure what I said to give you the impression of "anger." I'm a little disappointed, maybe, since the recent info had really changed my mind on whether I wanted to see this movie.

I just know that, based on my tastes, aliens in Indiana Jones is not something I'd like. So are you saying I should arrange and pay for a babysitter, drive thirty miles to the nearest theater, and pay $15 or more for tickets, for a movie that I have a pretty good idea that I won't like? That's an investment of around $80, assuming we don't eat any food or anything.


a-ha! I think living 30 miles away from a theater isn't something that many of us can relate to but if we did, we'd probably be as discriminating as you when it comes to which films to see/not see.

All I need to do is walk 5 minutes and there's a theater and so it's not nearly an investment of money, gas and time.

Back to the topic on hand, what if the film were about the Shroud of Turin? I'm sure that there would be some, perhaps many, among us arguing that they're only trying to mine the same formula as the previous films and singing the exact same notes.

As for Droid arguing that the quality of execution is meaningless if founded upon bad or shaky ideas, what about good or even great concepts that are poorly executed? That leaves you feeling even more deflated and discontent as the good ideas raised up your expectations.

bigbarada
05-14-2008, 10:27 PM
Hey, surprise surprise, Chux is angry about something. How about you just go watch the movie next week and then decide your opinion? I guess that'd be too hard though, eh? :thumbsup:

Y'know this is not a cult. Chux has the right to decide for himself whether or not he is interested in this movie. So, why don't you try letting him think for himself and not belittle him for having a opinion that differs from yours? Or is that too hard?

El Chuxter
05-15-2008, 12:27 AM
Y'know, I don't want to argue with anyone (I don't mind disagreeing and debating, but arguing about a movie is kinda pointless), but I'm rather dumbfounded as to how I was "played" because you disagree with me.

I've said before that Temple of Doom is an "odd man out" in the trilogy for a few reasons, but it still deals with the supernatural, phenomena that cannot be explained. I have no problem with integrating other mythologies into the series, but the introduction of aliens makes whatever he's chasing quite explainable. It also will, whether it's intended or not, beg the question of whether the Ark, the Grail, and the Sankara Stones are so powerful because they're alien relics as well. It's a whole bag of worms that I'm not willing to let this crew open. Twenty years ago, I would've given them the benefit of the doubt in a heartbeat. That was before the Star Wars prequels. They're not horrible, but they're subpar. I just really do not want to go through the trouble of seeing a movie in the theater if I'm not sure it won't disappoint.

Besides, Prince Caspian will be out, and I'm at least a week behind. In my math book, Reepy > Indy.

RooJay
05-15-2008, 02:12 AM
I think we're long past the point where we should just agree to disagree; not that there's any chance of that actually happening. Fact is, for some folks aliens in an Indy movie are no problem and jibe perfectly, and for others it just doesn't seem to fit. No matter what one side says to the other, no one's going to change anyone else's mind. The only thing that will do that is first hand exposure to the finished product, and even then there will certainly be folks for whom the chosen subject matter is a complete non-issue. A lot of people have built up in their minds what an Indy movie should and shouldn't be, but the plain fact of the matter is that the only person who has the right to make that determination (whether you like it or not) is the character's creators. The supporters and the detractors of both sides have already been heard and acknowledged - I'm calling this one a draw.

General_Grievous
05-15-2008, 10:20 AM
I prefer to look at it this way: Aliens and Indiana Jones are Spielberg's equivalent to chocolate and peanut butter. Both are great on their own when he makes movies about them. Maybe when combined, there could be some fun there. It could happen, it could not. I'm keeping an open mind about it until I actually see the movie.

Droid
05-15-2008, 12:11 PM
Look, I hope everyone loves it, but I am not sure I am going to see it. Here are some articles from the internet that reinforce my thoughts or are just interesting. They make the following points.

1. The Sankara stones are an ancient historical mythology, not some theory made up in recent history. The earliest mythology on the skulls is from the 19th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_skull

2. Lucas admits he is doing something totally different in this movie than in the other three, modeling the movie after 1950's B-movie alien movies rather than how the first three were based on the '30's and '40's. So people shouldn't argue this fits right in with the first three - the creator admits they're going in a new direction.

3. The whole movie is going to have an "I'm too old for this" theme, which I hate, particularly when they throw in Shia for a "but I'm not" counter. Is Crystal Skull the gateway to a new Mutt Jones series?

4. Lucas decided it's either aliens or we don't do the movie. I'll take my ball and go home. And his complaint is the final movie isn't "quite as wacky" as he wanted it to be. QUITE as wacky. How many things we loved for decades do we need to see mucked up by what George Lucas thinks would be funny?

5. There was no element of Lucas' ideas that totally went away because Lucas was stubborn even though Ford and Spielberg thought they were a bad idea.

6. Mark my words, this movie will be Ford and Spielberg trying to polish the excrement that is a bad George Lucas idea. I hope I am wrong. But it worries me how secretive Spielberg is about this movie, like he wants everyone to pay to see it before they realize how bad it is.

Portions of the articles with links for those who want to read them:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20192040,00.html

But there's a lot of historical data about the Sankara stones!

LUCAS: There is, but nobody in the United States knows about it, so there's no resonance. The MacGuffin is the key. Before the Sankara stones [which became the focus of the second film in the trilogy, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom], we'd had ideas for all kinds of other MacGuffin things. Some of them were original ones, that were in the [proposed] stories that I did. Like a haunted castle and stuff. But then Steven went off and did Poltergeist and said, ''I don't want to do another haunted-castle movie.''

***

Well to bring us into Indy 4, what kind of developmental push and pull went on once you decided to set the new film in the 1950s?

LUCAS: The idea was to take the genre of Saturday-matinee serials, which were popular in the '30s and '40s, and say, ''What kind of B movie was popular in the '50s, like those B movie serials were popular in the '40s?'' And use that as the overall uber-genre. We wouldn't do it as a Saturday-matinee serial. We'd do it as a B movie from the '50s.

***

You've made Indiana much older in Crystal Skull — the character is nearly 60. And Harrison Ford turned 65 while you were making the film.

LUCAS: There was never any question about the fact that we were going to have Harrison play his age.

SPIELBERG: There's a line that was thematic for me, and it's not a line that's actually in the movie. And it illustrates why I was comfortable letting Harrison age 18, 19 years. In the first movie, he says, ''It's not the years, sweetheart, it's the mileage.'' Well, my whole theme in this movie is, It's not the mileage sweetheart, it's the years. When a guy gets to be that age and he still packs the same punch, and he still runs just as fast and climbs just as high, he's gonna be breathing a little heavier at the end of the set piece. And I felt, Let's have some fun with that. Let's not hide that.

***
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/05/05/two-new-indiana-jones-tv-spots-harrison-ford-implies-that-george-lucas-wacky-ideas-are-stupid/

Paramount has released two new television spots for Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Meanwhile, The Playlist noticed a very telling slip-up in a recent Harrison Ford interview:

“It was the three of us, Steven, George and I, coming to agreement on the central notion of it all,” Ford said. “I think the original idea is still a large piece of it in the movie, but it’s been developed and worked on in ways that made it a lot more palatable to Steven and I.”

Lucas explains to the AP: “They wanted to go off on some other tangent. I said, ‘I’m not going to do that. I’m going to stick with this no matter what, so we either do this or we don’t. That’s it.’ Finally, we got something that we could all compromise on and all be happy with. It wasn’t quite as wacky as I wanted it to be, but it still is subtle and nice and works really well and has the same idea behind it.”

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20192175_20192181_20192043,00.html

Die Hard scribe Jeb Stuart got the boulder rolling with an early-'90s script titled Indiana Jones and the Saucer Men From Mars, a stab at addressing one of Lucas' central ideas. It made sense, Lucas argued, for the first three Indy movies to imitate 1930s and '40s adventure serials, as the stories were set in that period. But with Indy older, and the setting pushed to the '50s, the genre should also switch to the sort of trope you'd find only in that later era: namely, aliens invading Earth in spaceships with the military in hot pursuit. Or so Lucas argued, to raspberries from his collaborators. ''Harrison said, 'No way am I being in a Steve Spielberg movie like that,''' recalls Lucas. ''And Steven said, 'I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.'''

At some point, aliens got bumped aside for a new central concept: crystal skulls. Lucas has said he'd been interested for years in the real-life mythology behind them — what Ford calls ''the mysto-crypto stuff that's part of every Indiana Jones movie.'' After a go-round with Jeff Nathanson (Catch Me if You Can, Rush Hour 3), David Koepp finally came in about two years ago. He cooked up an acceptable stew of already-established ingredients, plus some of his own. (He's the only screenwriter with final credit; story credit goes to Lucas and Nathanson.) Are aliens still in there too? ''I can neither confirm nor deny,'' says Koepp. According to Ford, ''There's no element of any of the original scripts that has completely gone away. George made sure of that. 'Cause he is that persistent. And that dogged.'' Spielberg won't touch plot queries. His only comment? ''You'll find out on May 22nd.''

Beast
05-15-2008, 12:21 PM
All that did was make me anticipate the movie more.

And I agree with Lucas. In fact it reminds me of Quatermass and the Pit.

Which was basically the TV equivelent of a Seriel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatermass_and_the_Pit

General_Grievous
05-15-2008, 12:58 PM
You know, the alien thing doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that Sallah isn't in it. :cry:

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-15-2008, 01:38 PM
All that did was make me anticipate the movie more.


Definitely agree. It sounds like Lucas wanted to go overboard with the Aliens thing and Spielberg and Ford kinda tamed him a bit. :thumbsup: Like stated before, if aliens are shown in the film and its' done tastefully and whatnot, i'll approve. For now though, i'm incredibly giggly about this flick. I'm gonna buy midnight tickets this weekend for myself and my geek pals! :thumbsup:

bigbarada
05-15-2008, 02:43 PM
Personally, I just read Lucas saying, "We had a tried and true formula that worked very well for three films, so I decided to chuck all that in the garbage and start again from scratch."

Still, I'll wait to see it to be sure.

jonthejedi
05-15-2008, 02:53 PM
...head over to rebelscum.com for a great shot of Harrison Ford carrying IJ toys. Now I know how cheap Hasbro is...geez, couldn't they have sent him freebie samples. Course, it's not like he can't afford 'em.

Droid
05-15-2008, 03:12 PM
...head over to rebelscum.com for a great shot of Harrison Ford carrying IJ toys. Now I know how cheap Hasbro is...geez, couldn't they have sent him freebie samples. Course, it's not like he can't afford 'em.

If I was Harrison Ford, I wouldn't want Hasbro to have my address! :)

Droid
05-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Personally, I just read Lucas saying, "We had a tried and true formula that worked very well for three films, so I decided to chuck all that in the garbage and start again from scratch."

Doesn't it make it seem like Lucas just exhausts Ford and Spielberg and that he drives them nuts?

bigbarada
05-15-2008, 03:43 PM
Doesn't it make it seem like Lucas just exhausts Ford and Spielberg and that he drives them nuts?

Lucas is that embarrassing friend that Speilberg and Ford don't like to be seen in public with.:D

preacher
05-15-2008, 04:03 PM
I guess the Shankara stones were a Macguffin then. I retract my previous argument.

Beast
05-15-2008, 04:03 PM
...head over to rebelscum.com for a great shot of Harrison Ford carrying IJ toys. Now I know how cheap Hasbro is...geez, couldn't they have sent him freebie samples. Course, it's not like he can't afford 'em.
He likely gets free comp figures from Hasbro. Mark Hammil does. But he could have gotten some for his current girlfriend Calista Flockhart's 8 year old son Liam.

bigbarada
05-15-2008, 04:17 PM
He likely gets free comp figures from Hasbro. Mark Hammil does. But he could have gotten some for his current girlfriend Calista Flockhart's 8 year old son Liam.

That would be an interesting question for Hasbro:

We recently saw photos of Harrison Ford purchasing Indiana Jones figures. Did you forget to sent him his complementary cases of figures, or is that not your policy?:D

Beast
05-15-2008, 04:22 PM
That would be an interesting question for Hasbro:

We recently saw photos of Harrison Ford purchasing Indiana Jones figures. Did you forget to sent him his complementary cases of figures, or is that not your policy?:D
Well, what he bought is stuff that for the most part doesn't bare his likeness.

The Whip. The Mr. Potato Head. The 12" figure is probably Talking Indy though.

He should have grabbed the Adventure Heroes for him. Those rock. :D

JediTricks
05-15-2008, 07:11 PM
Considering all the legends and myths about aliens being tied to the evolution of primative humanity, the pyramids, etc. I don't see how involving aliens in the Indiana Jones franchise is such a huge leap. Just watch some of those documentaries where they point to these possible links from hieroglyphic. In fact the legends surrounding the crystal skulls have often been tied with aliens as well.

The first and third films were all about searching for artifacts that were based around the search for the Ultimate Truth in regard to Christian Mythology. So I don't see what the big deal is if this particular film goes in another direction and explores the search for the Ultimate Truth behind all these legends and myths from the dawn of recorded history about aliens having some sort of influence on humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theoriesThe vast majority of those legends and myths come from the last 30 years or so, they are NOT ancient - the only tie to ancient myths are speculative on the 20th century's part. Even there in that article, it shows that the early speculation was from the early 1900s, and it remained fringe well beyond Indy's era.



Chux, it will be alright. We'll see L. Ron Hubbard portrayed in this film, and at one point we'll be witness to Tom Cruise's virgin birth. Everything will make sense then."With each passing moment, you make yourself more and more ignorable." - Emperor Palpatine, Endor



I just don't get how everybody can be alright when two of the films revolve around Christian theology and whatnot while another film deals with other views of religion and suddenly, there is something new added to the mix and people are irritated? I just don't get how people can be alright with one and not the other.That's the key, it's a "new" idea, everything else Indy dealt with in all 3 movies was based on ANCIENT religions founded in centuries of history, this is NOT that at all, it's a tonal shift to '50s drive-in sci-fi fodder which isn't what Indiana Jones was about.



I'm more referring to Christian Religious Artifacts.

And the Sankara Stones don't have a easily relatable real life counterpart.

The Shiva Lingam Stones would be similar. But not really.The Sankara stones are Sivalinga, they are Shiva Lingam stones, diamond ones, that's what "Siva Linga" means. The power is not in them directly, but in the honor they give to Shiva whose power is supposed to be at play. They are marks of worship.



I think what Binks was going for was that the stones were more of the occult than an actual religion?That would be wrong then, the Sivalinga are from Hinduism, one of the most popular religions on the planet. And the Thuggee were quite real, though they were under Kali, they weren't specifically a religious cult, some of them were Sikh and Muslim, the latter is supposedly their true origin.


Ultimately, Ancient Astronauts and Alien visitations are science-fiction, they are modern myths with no traction before the 20th century. Indiana Jones is an archaeologist, going after ancient stuff is what makes the character work and gives him a universe. There is nothing but believability about an Indy universe with the Cross of Coronado, or an ancient Peruvian fertility idol, or an urn containing the ashes of a Chinese emperor from the 1600s, or the Ark of the Covenant, or Hindu sivalinga, or the Holy Grail - they are from history and from history's viewing of the supernatural, that's why Indy is a knower of the occult, none of which these modern alien myths are part of except as revisionism on the part of a few fanatics. Are you telling me that of all human history, in all the world's religions, there's no better candidate for an archaeologist adventurer to focus on than dubious theories that didn't even enter the public consciousness until the end of the 20th century? Sorry, not buying it.


BTW, I just realized, the Ark of the Covenant isn't a Christian relic, it's a Jewish one. So we've had a Peruvian relic, a Hebrew relic, a Chinese relic, a Hindu relic, a Spanish relic, and finally a Christian relic.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-15-2008, 08:39 PM
I think a reason that alien theories are new is because most people hadn't really conceived of something like that. People once thought that the Earth was the center of the universe and to suggest that there was life elsewhere was probably considered heresy. Now that we have the concept of aliens and UFO's in our mind, people are able to look at ancient texts and other things and see things that could be references to aliens and other things of extraterrestrial origin. That's not necessarily revisionist, it's just seeing something from a different perspective because you have knowledge that you didn't have before.

plasticfetish
05-15-2008, 09:12 PM
this is NOT that at all, it's a tonal shift to '50s drive-in sci-fi fodder which isn't what Indiana Jones was about.Key word being "was." Seeing as how it's nearly 20 years later... both in real life and the films, I'm not exactly surprised to see the subject matter slide in a slightly different direction.

Besides, it's all been based on a kind of fantasy interpretation of myths and legends. I'm not seeing the idea of an ET element as being all that odd.

JediTricks
05-15-2008, 09:13 PM
I think a reason that alien theories are new is because most people hadn't really conceived of something like that. People once thought that the Earth was the center of the universe and to suggest that there was life elsewhere was probably considered heresy. Now that we have the concept of aliens and UFO's in our mind, people are able to look at ancient texts and other things and see things that could be references to aliens and other things of extraterrestrial origin. That's not necessarily revisionist, it's just seeing something from a different perspective because you have knowledge that you didn't have before.
It still makes it a NEW concept which is not attuned to that of someone whose adventures deal with ancient history.

El Chuxter
05-15-2008, 09:22 PM
I think RooJay nailed it. None of us are going to change our minds on the issue. It's such a matter of opinion that no amount of debate is going to sway anyone to the other side.

For the record, I will see this movie and give it a fair chance despite my qualms. Just not likely in the theater.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-15-2008, 10:00 PM
Are you telling me that of all human history, in all the world's religions, there's no better candidate for an archaeologist adventurer to focus on than dubious theories that didn't even enter the public consciousness until the end of the 20th century? Sorry, not buying it.
The Nazis already tried all the ancient religious artifacts in their quest for power and left all the 20th-century ones to the Soviets. ;)

figrin bran
05-15-2008, 10:29 PM
It still makes it a NEW concept which is not attuned to that of someone whose adventures deal with ancient history.

This might not make any bit of difference for some of you but it seems, and this I gather from reading the figure cardbacks, that Indy isn't on this search out of his own volition.

While that won't be enough to redeem the concept to some of you, at least it should keep your idea of who Indiana Jones is intact, right?

Mad Slanted Powers
05-15-2008, 10:47 PM
This might not make any bit of difference for some of you but it seems, and this I gather from reading the figure cardbacks, that Indy isn't on this search out of his own volition.That can be seen in some of the trailers and TV spots. The Russian lady wants him to find it, and Indy at one point tells Mutt that the legend is just a story.

bigbarada
05-15-2008, 11:14 PM
He wasn't searching for the Holy Grail in Last Crusade either. He was searching for his kidnapped father and got caught up in the search.

Droid
05-16-2008, 09:18 AM
I guess I'd be OK with it if it turned out really to be fake. If Indy scoffed about aliens through the whole movie and then was right. But do you really think that will happen? What kind of movie is that?

No, he'll be suspicious until he meets E.T.

Tycho
05-16-2008, 10:55 AM
E.T. phone Jones!

Droid
05-16-2008, 11:22 AM
I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

perezhilton.com (http://perezhilton.com/2008-05-16-shia-indy-next-generation):

George Lucas revealed that there's a VERY good chance that Indy 5 will happen.

Lucas says that he and director Steven Spielberg have left the door open for a sequel to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, which is expected to open to huge numbers next week.

Lucas goes on to say, "I haven’t even told Steven or Harrison (Ford) this…But I have an idea to make Shia (LeBeouf) the lead character next time and have Harrison come back like Sean Connery did in the last movie. I can see it working out."

Prediction: Lucas probably owns the Indy rights. So he'll make the next Indy movie with Shia and it will be the movie he wanted to make with Crystal Skull, full blown alien attack and all. He'll retro claim it was the alien trilogy he always intended. If Speilberg won't direct, fine, he'll do it without him like Jurassic Park 3. If Ford wont' do it, fine they'll do it without him the way that they are going ahead this time without Connery. Maybe they'll just kill Indy. He NEVER lets an idea go. His whole career is feeling like people wouldn't do it his way so he got revenge later when he was powerful. Watch him claim Indy has always been the story of three generations of the Jones family and now that all six movies are out you can finally see that.

Funny, I thought he had all these ideas he wanted to do, avant garde artsy stuff no one would want to see that wouldn't make much money. But Star Wars just kept distracting him. I call monkeyshines. He has had two ideas: Indy and Star Wars and he will beat them mercilessly until they are unrecognizable to the original fans and until every penny has bled out of the franchises and into his flannel pockets.

Anyone want to tell me how neat this is?

plasticfetish
05-16-2008, 03:36 PM
First of all... what are you doing over at perezhilton.com anyway? Was it the "Frankie Munoz is quitting acting" story that got you there? ;) (Can't find the specific post BTW. It's long gone.)

A fifth Indy movie isn't exactly a new idea. And for some reason, the idea of having someone younger than Ford as the main character seems familiar also. Weren't their rumors about something like that years ago?

Droid
05-16-2008, 03:48 PM
A fifth Indy movie isn't exactly a new idea. And for some reason, the idea of having someone younger than Ford as the main character seems familiar also. Weren't their rumors about something like that years ago?

It isn't a new idea. It is an old terrible idea that is coming up again and may actually happen.

JediTricks
05-16-2008, 07:30 PM
This might not make any bit of difference for some of you but it seems, and this I gather from reading the figure cardbacks, that Indy isn't on this search out of his own volition.

While that won't be enough to redeem the concept to some of you, at least it should keep your idea of who Indiana Jones is intact, right?Not really, just because you can transplant a character into a totally foreign-universe situation and have them try to cope doesn't make it a good project, it just makes it an overused premise for a video game. It's not Indy's fault that he's in a movie about aliens, but it's not a free pass to the series just because the lead character doesn't want to be there either.



I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

George Lucas revealed that there's a VERY good chance that Indy 5 will happen.

Lucas says that he and director Steven Spielberg have left the door open for a sequel to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, which is expected to open to huge numbers next week.

Lucas goes on to say, "I haven’t even told Steven or Harrison (Ford) this…But I have an idea to make Shia (LeBeouf) the lead character next time and have Harrison come back like Sean Connery did in the last movie. I can see it working out."

Prediction: Lucas probably owns the Indy rights. So he'll make the next Indy movie with Shia and it will be the movie he wanted to make with Crystal Skull, full blown alien attack and all. He'll retro claim it was the alien trilogy he always intended. If Speilberg won't direct, fine, he'll do it without him like Jurassic Park 3. If Ford wont' do it, fine they'll do it without him the way that they are going ahead this time without Connery. Maybe they'll just kill Indy. He NEVER lets an idea go. His whole career is feeling like people wouldn't do it his way so he got revenge later when he was powerful. Watch him claim Indy has always been the story of three generations of the Jones family and now that all six movies are out you can finally see that.

Funny, I thought he had all these ideas he wanted to do, avant garde artsy stuff no one would want to see that wouldn't make much money. But Star Wars just kept distracting him. I call monkeyshines. He has had two ideas: Indy and Star Wars and he will beat them mercilessly until they are unrecognizable to the original fans and until every penny has bled out of the franchises and into his flannel pockets.

Anyone want to tell me how neat this is?It's totally wrong and evil and awful and I hate Lucas for this! I told you guys it was Lucas' ****ing fault for Shia being in this. Droid, your comments are right on the money, totally astute, for a second I thought you were still quoting Perez and thought "how the hell can shallow Perez be so locked onto Lucas like that???" before I came to my senses and realized you were speaking from YOU again. :p

Also, I had to change your link to Perez, there's swearing on the front page, I found the hardlink and used that instead.

Beast
05-16-2008, 08:58 PM
It's totally wrong and evil and awful and I hate Lucas for this! I told you guys it was Lucas' ****ing fault for Shia being in this.
Other than you were entirely wrong and it was all Spielburg.

Again, check out 'The Indiana Jones Diaries' from May's issue of Empire Magazine.

Tycho
05-18-2008, 12:03 AM
In the Young Indiana Jones stories, I just learned about Dr. Albert Schweitzer.

Star Trek Voyager fans might remember that the HoloDoc took his name briefly when he was trying to decide on a moniker.

Schweitzer wrote "The Reverence for Life," a philosophical treatise about how we should live and respect life. He was an accomplished musician (on the organ and piano) and he studied theology, but his philosophy was not religious, and non-denominational. In a large sense, the HoloDoc on Voyager did really acquire a lot of Schweitzer's character, as the fictional character became an opera singer.

But meanwhile, Schweitzer was an incredible human being who established a hospital outpost in a very rural, and remote outpost in deep Africa, where he worked for free. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and also help found a scientists group who organized against the proliferation of nuclear weapons - and people would really listen to a Nobel Peace Prize winner!

I really learned to admire him, the more I learned about him from the Indiana Jones tribute. This is a remarkable series that has done much to educate me in many areas I was not familiar with before.

Dr. Schweitzer is one of the most admirable human beings the series focuses on.

El Chuxter
05-18-2008, 12:26 AM
Didn't Indiana also meet Louis Armstrong and invent jazz?

Tycho
05-18-2008, 12:28 AM
Didn't Indiana also meet Louis Armstrong and invent jazz?

I don't know. I haven't gotten to that episode yet. :lipsrsealed:

bigbarada
05-18-2008, 01:43 AM
What about the episode where Indy and his dad are digging for a lost treasure in the Arctic Circle and are forced to break off a giant chunk of ice and send it southward in order to get to some underground, frozen catacombs? Then the chunk of ice sinks the Titanic at the end of the show? Have you watched that one yet?;)

Bel-Cam Jos
05-18-2008, 09:52 AM
So, anyone going to see this indy flick? (get it? indy? like 'independent,' but also the character name? see? ah... :p ).

I have remained spolier-free on this one. I intend to go after school gets out Thursday (tickets already bought, friend holding place in expected long line about an hour & a half before show time) in my costume (thankfully, the heat wave here is supposed to drop a few degrees... leather jackets just before summer hits are not too comfortable). You could say "he not nuts, he crazy." And you'd be right. Crazy with excitement!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-18-2008, 10:14 AM
I picked up tickets for my friends and myself for the 12:10 a.m. showing Wednesday night!! I was thinking about buying one of those hasbleh whips and using it to grab items from behind the refreshment stand.

"You want some popcorn today?"
"no thanks, i'll get it myself!"
(cue whip noise!)

Also, a reminder that the sci fi special on THE CRYSTAL SKULLS airs tonight, 9PM EST!!! :thumbsup:

Tycho
05-18-2008, 10:27 AM
Thanks for the Crystal Skulls documentary reminder. It's on Sci-Fi and not History Channel, huh? (just checking)

Meantime, I don't think I'm going to go to the premier night show, but rather the next morning (I think - I've been staying up late and watching Young Indy on DVD, so what's the difference? May as well go see a 12am show).

But I don't have plans to go with any friends, just by myself, at least at the moment. I wasn't going to plan on inviting anyone, so I'll be free to make up my mind about this at the last minute.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-18-2008, 12:29 PM
I'm not sure when I'll be going, but probably not until Monday. I want to see it as soon as I can, but with my graduation and family visiting this weekend and whatnot, I'll have to wait a few days.

Rocketboy
05-18-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm not sure when I'll be going, but probably not until Monday. I want to see it as soon as I can, but with my graduation and family visiting this weekend and whatnot, I'll have to wait a few days.Yeah, I'll bet you'll have your hands full.

El Chuxter
05-18-2008, 01:10 PM
Do not give JabbaJohnL a picture of yourself if he asks for it. You will regret it.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-18-2008, 01:22 PM
Yeah, I'll bet you'll have your hands full.
Well, at least one of them.

Anyway, I just found this (http://news.aol.com/entertainment/movies/movie-news-story/ar/_a/indiana-jones-is-back-in-action/20080518100509990001), which contains some spoilers.

CANNES, France (May 18) - Indiana Jones received louder applause going in than he did coming out.

His latest adventure, "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull," earned a respectful — though far from glowing — reception Sunday at the Cannes Film Festival, the movie avoiding the sort of thrashing the event's harsh critics gave to "The Da Vinci Code" two years ago.

Yet Indy's fourth big-screen romp is not likely to go down as one of his most memorable. Some viewers at its first press screening loved it, some called it slick and enjoyable though formulaic, some said it was not worth the 19-year wait since Steven Spielberg, George Lucas and Harrison Ford made the last film.

"They should have left well enough alone," said J. Sperling Reich, who writes for FilmStew.com. "It really looked like they were going through the motions. It really looked like no one had their heart in it."

Alain Spira of French magazine Paris Match found "Crystal Skull" a perfectly acceptable "Indiana Jones" tale, a sentiment echoed by the solid applause the movie received as the final credits rolled.

"It's good. It's a product that is polished, industrial, we're not getting ripped off in terms of quality," Spira said. "You know what you're going to see, you see what you get, and when you leave you're happy."

The applause was louder at the outset, though. Fans at the early afternoon showing, which preceded the film's glitzy formal premiere with cast and crew Sunday night, cheered and clapped wildly at an announcement that the screening was about to start. Some even hummed the Indiana Jones fanfare as the lights went down.

The applause at the end was more subdued.

The film received none of the derisive laughter or catcalls that mounted near the end of the first press screening for "Da Vinci Code."

There were a few titters from the "Crystal Skull" crowd early on over co-star Cate Blanchett's thick, Boris-and-Natasha accent as a Soviet operative racing against Indy to find an artifact of immeasurable power. The movie's rather corny romantic ending also drew a chuckle or two.

In between, the film packed a fair amount of action, though some viewers found the middle portion dull. Conchita Casanovas, of Spain's RNE radio, said she was "bored to death."

The new movie hurls archaeologist Jones into the Cold War in 1957. He survives a nuclear blast in the desert in typically creative fashion and is reunited with "Raiders" flame Marion Ravenwood (Karen Allen).

As speculated, the film has an alien connection, though far more subdued than the "Indiana Jones and the Saucer Men From Mars" story Lucas once envisioned.

There are melancholy nods to Sean Connery, who played Indy's dad in 1989's "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" but declined to return for the new movie, and the late Denholm Elliott, Indy's college dean in two of the previous movies.

And the film reveals the relationship between Indy and his new sidekick, an angry young motorcycle rebel played by Shia LaBeouf.

As with "Da Vinci Code," which went on to gross $758 million worldwide, "Crystal Skull" is so hotly anticipated that it will be virtually immune from critics' opinions. The film is expected to put up blockbuster box-office numbers as it opens globally Thursday.

"The movie was absolutely effective enough to score with audiences everywhere," said Anne Thompson, deputy editor of Hollywood trade paper Variety. "This played way better than 'Da Vinci Code.' No one was gunning for it. They were excited going in, hooting for it in a positive way."

Dozens of fans prowled outside the Palais, the Cannes headquarters, holding signs saying they needed tickets for "Crystal Skull."

Amelia Sims, a 19-year-old University of Georgia student studying abroad, held a sign reading "I (heart) Indy." She managed to get a pass to the press screening and loved the movie.

"I guess I've been waiting 19 years for this," Sims said. "You could say I've been waiting my whole life."

But Christian Monggaard, who is reviewing "Crystal Skull" for Danish newspaper Information, said he grew up with the "Indiana Jones" films and came away from this one disappointed, finding the climax an "overblown special-effects extravaganza."

"Talk about a woman scorned," Monggaard said. "A fan scorned is even worse."
So, eh, who knows.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-18-2008, 01:55 PM
Well, at least one of them.

So, eh, who knows.

I wouldn't worry; from what i've been browsing on IMDB and whatnot, there are more positive reviews than bad out there. The tally i've seen as of 1:39 EST, is 14 positive reviews and 5 negative/mixed.

I had to laugh as IGN UK gave it 2 1/2 out of 5. Their other reviews: Iron Man 3/5 and Speed Racer 4/5. Those mismashed reviews pretty much caused them to lose any credibility with me. hehehehee

Essentially, i'm incredibly happy with this reception and i'm starting to get antsy for Wednesday night! :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
05-18-2008, 02:43 PM
Yeah, I don't think I'd trust IGN UK after reading that. 4/5 is way too harsh a grade for Speed Racer. :thumbsup:

mabudonicus
05-18-2008, 02:56 PM
Right there with ya Chux, 4.5 would have been barely passable :thumbsup: of course, the folks laughing about it wouldn't understand that film even if they did see it eh :D

If Speed Racer can get the kind of crap reviews it did for the piece of art it truly was I will never trust another review again
:beard: Iso&Baws
I will count on peer reviews on this tho I have a feeling none of my friends will be suckered into seeing it, it'll be like a dare thing and I am NOT takin the bullet

El Chuxter
05-18-2008, 03:04 PM
If Speed Racer can get the kind of crap reviews it did for the piece of art it truly was I will never trust another review again
:beard: Iso&Baws

Right with you there. Prince Caspian got two thumbs down on Ebert (Though He's Not Here No More) and Roepert. That means it must be a masterpiece to dwarf the first.

I seem to recall critics thinking ROTS was not a steaming pile of dung, too.

General_Grievous
05-18-2008, 04:32 PM
I'm happy that there seem to be more positive reviews than negative ones for the new one. It doesn't take much to impress me, and if there are more positive reviews then that's a good sign for me. Hell, movies like "Spider-Man 3" and the aforementioned "Speed Racer" got negative reviews pretty much across the board and I was able to get enjoyment out of them.

2-1B
05-18-2008, 05:20 PM
Prince Caspian got two thumbs down on Ebert (Though He's Not Here No More) and Roepert.

3, if you count mine. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
05-18-2008, 05:26 PM
You've not seen it, so I'm going to stick my boot right squah in your ***!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

2-1B
05-18-2008, 05:34 PM
I was gonna see it, then I saw footage of that mouse and it killed my interest.
He doesn't belong in a Narnia movie, rings hollow to me because they are just pandering to Chronicles fanboys.

You've given a thumbs down to Indy 4 and Iron Man plus a thumbsup to What Happens in Vegas without seeing them. And let's not forget your glowing praise for Gigli before that was even released.

JediTricks
05-18-2008, 09:59 PM
Didn't Indiana also meet Louis Armstrong and invent jazz?You're thinking of the time Young Indy met Einstein and invented the special theory of relativity, or the time Young Indy was a delivery boy during WW1 and delivered a package to Hitler but he wouldn't sign for it.



What about the episode where Indy and his dad are digging for a lost treasure in the Arctic Circle and are forced to break off a giant chunk of ice and send it southward in order to get to some underground, frozen catacombs? Then the chunk of ice sinks the Titanic at the end of the show? Have you watched that one yet?;)I thought that was the one where Young Indy met Paul von Hindenburg and talked him into using a flammable aluminum-based skin and hydrogen instead of helium.



So, anyone going to see this indy flick? (get it? indy? like 'independent,' but also the character name? see? ah... :p ).

I have remained spolier-free on this one. I intend to go after school gets out Thursday (tickets already bought, friend holding place in expected long line about an hour & a half before show time) in my costume (thankfully, the heat wave here is supposed to drop a few degrees... leather jackets just before summer hits are not too comfortable). You could say "he not nuts, he crazy." And you'd be right. Crazy with excitement!I am going to see it Thursday probably, but 2 friggin' reviews spoiled a bunch of stuff for me before I had the chance to glance away.

You no nuts, you CRAZY! But I too will likely wear my Indy hat when I go. :p



Thanks for the Crystal Skulls documentary reminder. It's on Sci-Fi and not History Channel, huh? (just checking)Well, there's no Fantacrap Channel, so the next closest choice is the Sci-Fi Channel.



Well, at least one of them.

Anyway, I just found this (http://news.aol.com/entertainment/movies/movie-news-story/ar/_a/indiana-jones-is-back-in-action/20080518100509990001), which contains some spoilers.

So, eh, who knows.That's one of the spoilery reviews I read, the other was worse.

Tycho
05-18-2008, 10:48 PM
Maybe I missed it already. I was going to go out to eat. But it's 12 min. to 9PST so if I haven't missed it, I'll take a look.

Beast
05-19-2008, 04:16 PM
Newsarama's review was very positive. Can't wait for Thursday. :)

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=157507

Tycho
05-19-2008, 04:36 PM
I caught the Crystal Skulls special.

This is not an Indiana Jones spoiler, but the real deal about the Crystal Skulls.

There are supposedly 13 of them (at least). They must be all in alignment, perhaps systematically assembled together by 2012, or the earth will blow up.

Not literally, but volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc. will devastate the surface of the earth and destroy much life here.

The Crystal Skulls might contain technological secrets handed down to us by alien travelers - or they are indications that we belong to one of 13 tribes of humans who live on inhabitable planets in our galaxy (think Battlestar Galactica - their 13 tribes of man legend was actually rooted in this lore as well).

In the religious element, yeah, Adam and Eve could have even existed, as the literal first humans on earth, and not through evolution, if they literally traveled here from elsewhere.

Anyway, I guess in the movie, the Soviets want a Crystal Skull to see if they can unlock its secrets.

The real-life deal is that crystaline is used to record information in computer chips, CDs, DVDs, etc. The skulls might contain alien information for our species when we are ready to receive it, OR they are technological devices, placed on earth, to protect us from disaster in 2012. They were shaped like skulls so they would be revered or deemed sacred and left alone for the most part - at least until we were technologically advanced enough to read crystal.

So yes, they might be alien. Yes, some extra-terrestrials might even be human - and there could even be 12 more planets of humans out there (not counting colonies).

Anyway, I have no idea what the movie will focus on, but that's what the Crystal Skull deal is all about. - And they are hidden, probably by the Mayans, in Central America's jungles.

JediTricks
05-19-2008, 04:37 PM
Wow, I guess I was wrong about there not being a Fantacrap Channel.

Rocketboy
05-19-2008, 07:12 PM
The whole sci-fi special was a waste of time.
A Not-so Wild Goose Chase and crackpot theories.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-19-2008, 07:35 PM
Newsarama's review was very positive. Can't wait for Thursday. :)

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=157507

I didn't read the link to avoid spoilers, but the score on RT is 80% fresh with 45 positive and 11 negative/mixed. I'm gettin' more and more excited!!!!

I'm viewing the flicks in order, and I'm actually watching RAIDERS right now as I watched TEMPLE on saturday night. I'll watch LAST CRUS- err, Second to Last Crusade (hehehehe) tomorrow night!!!! :thumbsup:

I still laugh at the younger and thinner, Alfred "Doc Ock" Molina in the beginning of RAIDERS. Poor schmuck. :crazed:

Droid
05-20-2008, 08:39 AM
I have read enough spoilers - I won't post them here - to confirm that I will never see this movie.

I hope that all of you enjoy this movie, I truly do, but I think that some, if not most, of you are going to despise it in a way that will cause arguments that will make the prequel/OT debate look like a tickle fight.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-20-2008, 09:10 AM
There was a brief interview with Lucas, Shia and Ford on Attack of the Show last night. Lucas said there was no Indy V. He also said if people don't think they are going to like it, don't go see it.

Beast
05-20-2008, 09:11 AM
I have read enough spoilers - I won't post them here - to confirm that I will never see this movie.

I hope that all of you enjoy this movie, I truly do, but I think that some, if not most, of you are going to despise it in a way that will cause arguments that will make the prequel/OT debate look like a tickle fight.
The reviews say otherwise. But enjoy sticking your head in the sand and choosing to not judge the movie for yourself. ;)

JetsAndHeels
05-20-2008, 10:12 AM
I for one am very excited about this movie. Do I think it will be as good as the originals? No....but I do think it will be a fun summer movie. I could be dissappointed, but I doubt it.

Droid
05-20-2008, 10:16 AM
There was a brief interview with Lucas, Shia and Ford on Attack of the Show last night. Lucas said there was no Indy V. He also said if people don't think they are going to like it, don't go see it.

OK, George! Glad we're on the same page!

Droid
05-20-2008, 10:23 AM
The reviews say otherwise. But enjoy sticking your head in the sand and choosing to not judge the movie for yourself. ;)

This isn't a question of me being a judge in a case, where I HAVE to review evidence and make a decision because it is my job. This is me deciding whether it is more likely that I will be thoroughly entertained by a movie and its storyline, whether I will be outraged at the poor quality and ridiculous storyline, or whether I would be indifferent. Given what I KNOW is in the movie from reading spoiler reviews I could never enjoy this movie. I don't need to see a movie to know I will hate it if I know the plot of the movie.

The positive reviews I am reading are the same kinds of reviews that ticked me off about Transformers: they belittle the premise that a movie about Indiana Jones or Transformers is supposed to be great and say, "What do you expect from a movie like this? Popcorn fluffy explosive fun and that's what we got. Lighten up and enjoy the ride." I don't think the original three, particularly Raiders or Last Crusade required the audience to forgive anything just because of what the movie was and what it was trying to be. Reviews like that are just an excuse for filmmakers to be lazy.

I don't hear the same kind of forgiveness for movies like Epic Movie or Good Luck Chuck. But come on, what did you expect them to be? They are just mindless comedies. Sit back and enjoy the ride!

Tycho
05-20-2008, 01:01 PM
I always meant to see Good Luck Chuck if only for seeing Jessica Alba in panties. :love:

How's that for mindless appeal to gratuitousness? OK - yeah it would work for most of us here.

However, I decided that probably all they'd show of her they already teased you with in the movie trailer.

I also decided that it's pathetic of me to want to see Jessica in panties on a movie screen where I'll never get to touch her, while I could be out trying to grab me some panties in the real world. :p

But my decision about Good Luck Chuck had absolutely nothing to do with whether it was a good comedy or a complete waste of time.

My decision about Indy would be based on how I like Harrison Ford delivering one-liners, punching and shooting bad guys, finding stuff they blow the importance of out-of-proportion, explosions, critters, and car chases, etc. That's all I expect. If there's more to it, then great.

As a writer, I tried to create something with much more substance. Shameless plug: The Library (www.myspace.com/seeyoulatergator1) - my adventure I wrote. But I made sure that all the sex and violence I could put in there kept the action moving and the story exciting. We'll see if I can get it off the ground.

Yet everyone criticizes. I expect that to be the case with my work as well. The thing I say is, "if you can point out much to do about what is wrong with something, try doing it better yourself!"

Now I've seen some good arguments as to why someone can criticize and still recognize that they CAN'T do better themselves. OK - you know: that's legitimate. If you don't like something - you have a right to your opinion and I think the creator might benefit from listening - even if his critic can't do better either. The critic is still part of the audience.

If the creator wants to dismiss the critic as a disgruntled misanthrope - and indeed some might be, who are just trying to puff themselves up by putting someone else's work down - then the creator has that right as well.

A good criticism makes strong points that could be useful to the creator. A smart artist will be able to see through the typical, trolling misanthrope.

El Chuxter
05-20-2008, 01:13 PM
I could be out trying to grab me some panties in the real world.

I wouldn't recommend thongs. They tend to ride up on you. Which is fine, unless you get hash marks on them, in which case you probably won't want to wear them again.

Deoxyribonucleic
05-20-2008, 03:44 PM
I'd like to know why people think they need to "make" someone go see a movie and somehow they are offended if others don't go see what they feel is the be all, end all of life?? It really boggles the mind. And by not seeing a movie that makes people ignorant how?? Ohhhh, wait, I see, movies are real life, ok, I understand now. :rolleyes:

Tycho
05-20-2008, 04:01 PM
I'd like to know why people think they need to "make" someone go see a movie and somehow they are offended if others don't go see what they feel is the be all, end all of life?? It really boggles the mind. And by not seeing a movie that makes people ignorant how??

I agree with that. Though I like Indiana Jones myself, I actually was always irritated that Lucasfilm rammed it down everyone's throat because it was Lucas and Harrison Ford. They put Indy in the Bantha Tracks and SW Insider.

Look, if Indy has a big enough following, let him sell his own magazines. I might buy into it. But if someone's subscribing to a Star Wars magazine, then Star Wars is what they want to read about.

As to the SW prequels: I like them. I can post that. But I don't think I need to force others to like them. I think it takes 1-2 posts. It can be enough to say "I like them," or I can follow that up with "why I like them" and that's all it should take. An interesting debate could come up as to whether Qui-Gon or midi-chlorians work in the PT, and I can make my case and refute someone else's opinion to the contrary. But I've not really felt the need to go on about it for 9 years, hehe. It's a decade old debate now - and it's not really relevant to real life.

2-1B
05-20-2008, 11:26 PM
More fan reaction:

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/indy_not_so_hot?utm_source=cnn00

Mad Slanted Powers
05-21-2008, 12:57 AM
I'd like to know why people think they need to "make" someone go see a movie and somehow they are offended if others don't go see what they feel is the be all, end all of life?? It really boggles the mind. And by not seeing a movie that makes people ignorant how?? Ohhhh, wait, I see, movies are real life, ok, I understand now. :rolleyes:I don't feel a need to make someone like something. I just don't always understand it when they don't. I think it is a natural thing to seek out others with similar interests. That is why we are here on a site dedicated to Star Wars. So, when I encounter people that I think might be like me, whether it is here or somewhere else, it is kind of disappointing when it turns out that we aren't much alike at all.

Outside of work, I don't really have much interaction with people, so coming here is a bit of a refuge from loneliness. It's nice to have a place where I can talk about Star Wars as well as other topics that come up. I've become familiar with the regular posters and enjoy the humorous banter that goes on. However, the negativity that constantly shows up kind of depresses me sometimes. Here I am all excited to see the new Indy movie and thinking that everyone else would be too. Then the complaining starts and I'm kind of taken aback because everything I've seen so far looks great.

This certainly isn't the first time I've experienced this here. First there was the Prequels. I loved TPM and couldn't understand why people, especially Star Wars fans, would hate it so much. More recently, I've followed the Lost and Heroes threads, and couldn't understand it when people started to give up on the shows, while I continued to eagerly look forward to them each week. I enjoy talking about the music I like, but haven't really found people with similar interests here either. Then there are the Rancor Pit issues which I am also in the minority in most matters.

So, my apologies if I come across as combative in any way. It's just me feeling a bit frustrated and disconnected.

Tycho
05-21-2008, 01:25 AM
Well I usually get along fine with MSP on almost everything. If we disagree in the Rancor Pit, we keep it friendly.

I know I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, but I acknowledge that not everyone's perfect ;)

Meanwhile, I totally relate to the negativity being a let down. I DO think for myself, but I enjoyed the SW Prequels. I don't know what everyone expected of them, but they fell in love with the OT as children. If they are still fond of the OT, it MIGHT be due to nostalgia and not second-guessing their age-old established opinion that the original trilogy was made up of first-rate films. Well they decided that as a child. Then they judge the PT as adults. No wonder they're let down a bit. The PT even has a deeper political element that COULD interest adults if they were open to it.

But I don't usually jump into those PT vs OT debates any longer. I too don't need the negativity. However, a good case might point to some other movie that a person really likes, and provide some analysis as to why they like it. Then they should look at whether that movie was made for adults and ask themselves "if Star Wars really was?"

bigbarada
05-21-2008, 02:33 AM
Well I usually get along fine with MSP on almost everything. If we disagree in the Rancor Pit, we keep it friendly.

I know I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, but I acknowledge that not everyone's perfect ;)

Meanwhile, I totally relate to the negativity being a let down. I DO think for myself, but I enjoyed the SW Prequels. I don't know what everyone expected of them, but they fell in love with the OT as children. If they are still fond of the OT, it MIGHT be due to nostalgia and not second-guessing their age-old established opinion that the original trilogy was made up of first-rate films. Well they decided that as a child. Then they judge the PT as adults. No wonder they're let down a bit. The PT even has a deeper political element that COULD interest adults if they were open to it.

But I don't usually jump into those PT vs OT debates any longer. I too don't need the negativity. However, a good case might point to some other movie that a person really likes, and provide some analysis as to why they like it. Then they should look at whether that movie was made for adults and ask themselves "if Star Wars really was?"

I do agree that movies we watched as young children will always seem more "perfect" than movies we see later on. It's not necessarily because they are better movies, it's just that they shape our expectations for every movie that comes after.

Droid
05-21-2008, 09:10 AM
As a child I loved the Transformers cartoon and hated Transformers the cartoon movie. I was crazy about the first Ghostbusters and Gremlins and hated the sequels. I adored Back to the Future and loathed Back to the Future II. I thought the Neverending Story part II was an atrocity.
As a child I was crazy about Star Wars and thought the two Ewok movies were a mess.

My whole life, at any age, there was fiction I liked and thought was well done, and there was fiction I thought was terrible. I just don't buy into the view that I am not as forgiving as I was as a child.

Perhaps we should reserve this debate until tomorrow, at which time I will lay out what I think was so horribly wrong with Crystal Skull.

figrin bran
05-21-2008, 10:48 AM
As a child I loved the Transformers cartoon and hated Transformers the cartoon movie. I was crazy about the first Ghostbusters and Gremlins and hated the sequels. I adored Back to the Future and loathed Back to the Future II.

You didn't mention Back to the Future III so that means you liked it? :p

Droid
05-21-2008, 12:03 PM
You didn't mention Back to the Future III so that means you liked it? :p

Actually I liked it a lot more than Back to the Future II. I still didn't like the recasting of Jennifer and I thought that Doc showing up at the end with a time machine train was beyond idiotic, but I thought it was more solid than the second Back to the Future.

preacher
05-21-2008, 07:10 PM
Funny story. I was watching the "Key to Vector Sigma" from the second season of transformers - you know the episode where the Stunticons make their debut. At one point, all these centurion droids just kind of stupidly fall down an abyss. And a few minutes later Megatron activates Vector Sigma to give life to the Stunticons. I turned to my brother and asked him "Why the hell Megatron wouldnt bring the Centurion droids to Vector Sigma and make them somewhat less retarded." He laughed and said he had never thought about it. I also remember having very fond memories of Star Blazers and Robotech as a kid, but about twenty years later, watching the episodes, the dialogue is cheese and some of the plots are nonsensical.

Generally speaking, I liked the Transformer movie. There were some things that really bugged me.

I also like the prequels. Jarjar didn't bug me in the least. I thought the potty humor was overdone but whatever I've seen far worse crap from Nickolodian. For me the battle between which is better OT or prequel is a draw. There are strengths and weaknesses to both. OT the special effects are not as good. And in the prequels the dialogue doesn't flow as smoothly.

I can't help but make these analysis with all movies. Like Tycho I am aspiring to become a writer and one thing I do when I watch movies is take notes and learn the sorts of beats that work and those that don't. The pacing the works and the pacing that doesn't. I rented Cloverfield from red box the other day and didn't care for it. A lot of people did. I'm glad it only cost me a buck to watch and was very glad I didn't waste 9 bucks at a theater. The funny thing is my wife is starting to see the same sorts of issues and she is an active influence in my writing. Critical but supportive.

That's what these forums are about though. Disagreements. Its nothing personal and I seriously doubt anyone means it to be. That wasn't always the case. For a long time I quit posting on these forums because there were so many rude doushe' bags and I responded in kind. The guys here are pretty cool.

I don't blow smoke up anybody's rear. Indy has me worried. The age doesn't bug me. Shia Lebouf doesn't bug me. I think the kid plays a goof-ball very well. I just don't like the tie in to aliens. And after watching the Crystal Skulls special on sci-fi (what a hippy-fest; I was expecting a cameo appearance from cheech and chong passing around the bud) the whole plot seems like its going to be on shaky ground. I hope that the ark makes an appearance and atomizes the skull like the mess it made of Beloque', Toht, and the other nazis . That to me is the only fitting resolution - God over science so to speak. An affirmation of Indy's belief system which is a very fitting reward for a 60 year old adventurer.

Rocketboy
05-21-2008, 09:03 PM
Perhaps we should reserve this debate until tomorrow, at which time I will lay out what I think was so horribly wrong with Crystal Skull.Why in the hell are you going to see Indy 4? You've done nothing but p*ss and moan about how much you're going to hate it.
Since yesterday morning you've said:

I have read enough spoilers - I won't post them here - to confirm that I will never see this movie.


He also said if people don't think they are going to like it, don't go see it. OK, George! Glad we're on the same page!

Given what I KNOW is in the movie from reading spoiler reviews I could never enjoy this movie. I don't need to see a movie to know I will hate it if I know the plot of the movie.

Tycho
05-21-2008, 10:27 PM
Well, I'm going to have surgery as an alternative. I'll have to see this one some time later.

bigbarada
05-22-2008, 02:55 AM
FROM THIS POINT ON IN THE THREAD, SPOILERS AHOY!

---

--

-

I just got back from a midnight showing of Indy and the movie was alright. Nothing great. The alien stuff didn't bother me that much, other than the fact that there have been soooooo many movies and TV shows about aliens over the last few decades that this just felt very old hat. I think the magic of the original films was that they dealt with subject matter that you just don't see too many movies about these days. This felt like a 50s-retro episode of the X-Files. I just wish they had been more original when choosing the story instead of making yet another UFO movie.

It's not that I have anything against alien and UFO stories, I'm just a little bored of them. Add to that the inconsistent, awkward pacing of the film and Crystal Skull isn't even a very compelling or interesting UFO movie.

However, the strength of Indiana Jones movies is not in the treasure, it's in the characters. Unfortunately the film fails there too. There is zero chemistry between Indy and Mutt and all of their interactions seem forced. There's nothing even remotely resembling Indy's interactions with Short Round in TOD or Henry Jones Sr. in Last Crusade. It's like they tried to subdue Shia's over-the-top personality so much that they completely eradicated it. He ends up being a one-dimensional cardboard cutout of a 50s bad boy.

Iron Man is still the best movie I've seen this year, followed by Prince Caspian.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-22-2008, 03:43 AM
I just got back as well and overall, I really enjoyed it. Ford was pretty solid in the role and I really enjoyed his interactions with Mutt, especially when he told him that he didn't have to stand up/act tough to prove his manliness, etc. I also loved how his tone changed with him during the film.

I will say that I was not bothered at all by the alien factor in the film and the finale did not bug me at all. To me, it was actually quite refreshing cos after watching all three movies this past weekend, you can pick up on the formula of hte Indy movies: indy starts the movie in a jam, moves onto a new mission which involves stopping some group from obtaining an ancient, powerful artifact that can help this group take over the world/country/etc. With two of the first three films, the artifact was of the Christian faith with the second one dabbing into the Hindu faith. Frankly, I was happy that this one went in a new direction, even with aliens as it would have felt really stale and like a rehash of the first three films. I didn't even mind the scene where Marion takes the boat/car off the cliff into the tree, but my main gripe comes from mutt swinging on the trees; that was just unnecessary and silly.

I liked seeing Marion and Indy together again, that was a plus. I didn't have a problem with the ants either and while mutt made some jokes, I didn't think the film went overboard with the old age jokes.

Did I enjoy it more than my favorite, Last Crusade? No, and nearly 20 years since the last one is going to make some folks expectations way too big to enjoy the film and some fanboys will hate the flick, but that's just how it'll be. Overall, I really enjoyed the film! :thumbsup:

Droid
05-22-2008, 09:08 AM
Why in the hell are you going to see Indy 4? You've done nothing but p*ss and moan about how much you're going to hate it.
Since yesterday morning you've said:

I am not going to see it! But I know what happens. I have held back on spoilders for folks who want to see it. I look forward to discussing the flaws with the movie today.

General_Grievous
05-22-2008, 12:47 PM
I saw this last night as well.

Of course it's not as good as the original trilogy, but I still got some fun out of it.

There's stuff in this movie that's great, like the characters. Indiana Jones is still awesome as hell. Harrison Ford can do no wrong. Marion's role was a lot smaller than I thought it'd be. It seemed like a long cameo. The new characters are all pretty solid. Shia LaBeouf played a good sidekick to Indy, though he was no Short Round. And Cate Blanchett played a decent villain. As far as Indy villains go, she's no Belloq or Toht or Mola Ram, but I thought she was better than any of Last Crusade's villains. The action setpieces were pretty cool, especially the jungle jeep chase seen in the trailers. The scene with the ants was pretty cool too. Indy and Mutt exploring the graveyard was the closest this movie got to the originals. Also, you've gotta love the part with Indy and the blowdart.

Now for the stuff I didn't like.

First off: the aliens. I have made up my mind that aliens and Indiana Jones don't mix very well. And I was one of the ones who was being optimistic about them in the first place. It was just so distracting to me. It didn't really ruin the movie for me due to the other cool stuff that was in it that I mentioned above, but it was still unneccessary. But I would take the aliens any day over the scene where Shia LaBeouf swung on vines with CGI monkeys. I was actually horrified when I saw that. That had to have been one of the stupidest things I have ever seen on screen. And it HAD to have been George Lucas's idea. It was probably his little trademark of senility. I hated that scene much more than anything involving aliens. At what point did anyone think that was a good idea?

Overall, I'd say it's a pretty average movie. It's got some good stuff and some bad stuff. For the most part, the good outweighs the bad, but I still can't get over the Tarzan scene. And I'm pretty sure that was all Lucas.

bigbarada
05-22-2008, 12:51 PM
I just got back as well and overall, I really enjoyed it. Ford was pretty solid in the role and I really enjoyed his interactions with Mutt, especially when he told him that he didn't have to stand up/act tough to prove his manliness, etc. I also loved how his tone changed with him during the film.

I will say that I was not bothered at all by the alien factor in the film and the finale did not bug me at all. To me, it was actually quite refreshing cos after watching all three movies this past weekend, you can pick up on the formula of hte Indy movies: indy starts the movie in a jam, moves onto a new mission which involves stopping some group from obtaining an ancient, powerful artifact that can help this group take over the world/country/etc. With two of the first three films, the artifact was of the Christian faith with the second one dabbing into the Hindu faith. Frankly, I was happy that this one went in a new direction, even with aliens as it would have felt really stale and like a rehash of the first three films. I didn't even mind the scene where Marion takes the boat/car off the cliff into the tree, but my main gripe comes from mutt swinging on the trees; that was just unnecessary and silly.

I liked seeing Marion and Indy together again, that was a plus. I didn't have a problem with the ants either and while mutt made some jokes, I didn't think the film went overboard with the old age jokes.

Did I enjoy it more than my favorite, Last Crusade? No, and nearly 20 years since the last one is going to make some folks expectations way too big to enjoy the film and some fanboys will hate the flick, but that's just how it'll be. Overall, I really enjoyed the film! :thumbsup:

For the record, and this has been mentioned before, the Ark of the Covenant is a Jewish artifact, not a Christian one.

This movie mostly dealt with the Mayan religion, but with the added modern interpretation of aliens being involved. I think it's actually more likely that those drawings on the ground are evidence that the Mayans had pioneered manned flight. Hot air balloons and hang gliders are not outside the limits of Mayan technology. So I find it easier to believe that the Mayans just beat out the Wright Brothers by a few centuries.

bigbarada
05-22-2008, 12:59 PM
Yeah, the monkey swinging scene was not only stupid, but it was pointless. Mutt just ended up right back where he started.

Our theater was packed from the midnight showing and for a small midwestern farming town, that's a big deal. However, most people were pretty disappointed with the alien aspect of the story, it just didn't seem to fit well with Indiana Jones.

My favorite part of the movie, however, is the entire opening sequence. I actually really liked the homage to American Graffiti at the beginning and the whole contrast with Indy stuck in a fake, 50s suburban neighborhood was actually pretty funny. He totally looked like a fish out of water in that environment and it actually worked.

Beast
05-22-2008, 03:49 PM
Caught the 11 AM show this morning and loved the movie. It had that fun sense of adventure from the original trio of films, and I thought it encorporated the alien aspect fairly well. I agree with the only part I really didn't like was the Mutt and Monkeys scene. But everything else was great. Loved the Indy in the Refrigerator thing. Now I want a Deluxe Indiana Jones w/ Refrigerator set. :)

Droid
05-22-2008, 04:03 PM
MAJOR SPOILERS












I am glad that some of you are enjoying the film. The primary spoilers that I read that made me believe I could never enjoy this film and made me choose never to see it are:

1. That aliens are shown and that the aliens fly away in their alien spaceship.
2. The CGI monkeys and ants and prairie dogs and overall overuse of CGI.
3. Indy having a son.
4. Marion being in the film.
5. Mutt doing his Tarzan thing.
6. The Indy's "too old for this" schtick
7. The Return to the Raiders warehouse.
8. The Ark being shown.
9. Indy surviving an atomic blast and being sent flying miles in refrigerator.
10. The tour through nostalgia by revisiting American Grafiti and Close Encounters.
11. Indy saying, "I've got a bad feeling about this."
12. Jokes concerning Mutt getting hit in the crotch with plants.
13. The fact that they beat you over the head with the 1950's between a Elvis song, Mutt's Brando impression, a malt shop, a fight between jocks and slicks, the atom bomb, and Indy getting a Red Scare firing. The Indy movies took place in the '30's and '40's, but it was not a Forrest Gump style Indy encounters every cliche or element of those time periods. That was the worst part of the Indy TV show, other than 90 year old Indy. There were no modern songs played in the other Indy movies (maybe Anything Goes, but that was a part of the plot shown to establish Willie as a singer and to show they were in China).
14. Made up vehicles like the jungle cutter or a car that drives around in water before going over waterfalls. The previous movies used real vehicles of the time.

Any combination of these I could have dealt with, but never the alien spaceship, and never all of them.

Please let me know if any of these spoilers aren't actually in the film and I will retract my statement as to that element.

General_Grievous
05-22-2008, 04:25 PM
Please let me know if any of these spoilers aren't actually in the film and I will retract my statement as to that element.

Though it's pretty minor, the only one that isn't in the movie is Mutt pulling himself out of quicksand with a snake. What actually happens is Indy and Marion get caught in quicksand and Mutt uses a snake to pull them out of it, much to Indy's horror.

As for "I'm too old for this" jokes, there really aren't any from Indy himself. Though Mutt does crack a few jokes, like calling him "Gramps".

Beast
05-22-2008, 04:35 PM
There's a lot of overly nitpicky things there.

1. So? We saw magic and ghosts in the other films. :p
2. There was nothing wrong with the ants or prairie dogs. The monkey scene was eh.
3. So? Did I miss a story where Indy was sterile? Or castrated?
4. What's wrong with Marion? Nobody complained about Sallah returning in LC.
5. That is the only thing I can remotely agree with you on. It was silly fun.
6. I thought that was great. He grabbed what he could find and Indy freaked.
7. Honestly, I think others have blown this out of proportion.
8. I don't get what's so big deal about that. It was a neat callback.
9. Only by the audience. Nobody else saw it when the crate is broke open.
10. It's just Indiana Jones and his amazing luck at work once again.
11. I don't see where they really revisited Close Encounters. Even AG is a stretch.
12. It was a cute call back to his other famous role. And the theater loved it.
13. As if there wasn't some silly humor in the other Indy movies. Please!
14. We weren't beat over the head by it anymore than we were beat over the head it was the 30's and 40's in the other films. It's the 50's, that stuff is prevelant. If it's ok for the other films to be period pieces, then it's ok for this one to be.
15. I don't see how the Jungler Cutter is so implausible. It's a tractor with huge saws on the front to cut through the jungle. As for the water traversable vehicle, those arn't exactly fantasy you know. Seems like just something else to nitpick.

Droid
05-22-2008, 04:53 PM
Though it's pretty minor, the only one that isn't in the movie is Mutt pulling himself out of quicksand with a snake. What actually happens is Indy and Marion get caught in quicksand and Mutt uses a snake to pull them out of it, much to Indy's horror.

As for "I'm too old for this" jokes, there really aren't any from Indy himself. Though Mutt does crack a few jokes, like calling him "Gramps".

Thanks for the heads up! Corrections made!

Given that there are aliens shown and a spaceship though, I'm still not seeing it!

Droid
05-22-2008, 05:05 PM
1. So? We saw magic and ghosts in the other films. .
We saw the power of God in the world. That is religion and mythology. This is science fiction, a totally different genre, and one I don't believe Indy fits in.

I don't like them bringing in Indy's son because it is just a retread of Last Crusade and Lucas riffing again by turning it on its head where Indy is the father. And it implies Indy was incomplete without a child. And that his life left him hollow until he was united with a family. And it is a bridge to not needing Harrison Ford anymore and making stories about his kid. And it is Lucas doing his kid thing again like Anakin. Not everything has to be fathers and sons.

Sallah is like Felix in the Bond films. Someone who pops up now and again. Indy is supposed to be the next Bond, a girl in every port, his love is the adventure, not the woman. There should be a new damsel in every movie.

The Ark was supposed to be once again swallowed up by history and lost this time in government bureaucracy. And it left you wondering what was in all those other crates. It was a chilling ending. It was not supposed to be a to be continued until Crystal Skull ending. We weren't supposed to know where the Ark was. It cheapens Raiders at the expense of a joke, "Look, the Ark!"

To have Indy survive an atomic blast in a completely implausible way goes farther than anything that ever happened in the series before and I say, way too far. Why not just have him get in a bomb shelter the government was testing the effectiveness of? Would have worked just as well.

I have heard the aliens look like Close Encounters and that Lucas is clearly rehashing his AG roots. Maybe I'm wrong; I haven't seen it.

I am tired of poop and crotch jokes. If other people are amused by them, great. They did do the bit in Last Cruade where the rhino's horn almost hits Indy in the crotch. I'll grant you that.

Except for having Nazis and Hitler the other movies just took place in the 30's and 40's. There was no popular music played. Indy didn't hide from the Nazis in a depression bread line. It was not a tour through everything people associate with those decades.

As I said, I wouldn't have avoided or hated this film over a jungle cutter or a crotch joke, but an Indy that is played up as too old for the adventure reunited with an old flame and a new kid and meeting aliens and surviving an atomic blast in a refrigerator just ads up to can't see it.

General_Grievous
05-22-2008, 05:05 PM
Oh, and the only reason Indy survives the blast is because the refrigerator is lined with lead.

Droid
05-22-2008, 05:09 PM
Oh, and the only reason Indy survives the blast is because the refrigerator is lined with lead.

That MIGHT help you survive the radiation. It would not help you survive the blast or your fridge being thrown several miles.

I thought the fall from the plane on the raft and the mine car jumping the tracks in Temple of Doom was pushing it, but this exceeds anything ever done before, in a bad way.

Beast
05-22-2008, 05:10 PM
Oh, and the only reason Indy survives the blast is because the refrigerator is lined with lead.
Aye. It says 'Lead Lined' right on the door label as Indy's pulling it shut.

I thought it was pretty damn amusing myself. Typical Indy ingenuity.

Beast
05-22-2008, 05:27 PM
We saw the power of God in the world. That is religion and mythology. This is science fiction, a totally different genre, and one I don't believe Indy fits in.
Also known as Magic. Like Indy said, depends on what God you believe in. ;)

I don't like them bringing in Indy's son because it is just a retread of Last Crusade and Lucas riffing again by turning it on its head where Indy is the father. And it implies Indy was incomplete without a child. And that his life left him hollow until he was united with a family. And it is a bridge to not needing Harrison Ford anymore and making stories about his kid. And it is Lucas doing his kid thing again like Anakin. Not everything has to be fathers and sons.
It's a retread of Last Crusade? In no way shape or form at all.
The fact that Mutt's his son doesn't even come out until near the end of the film.

Sallah is like Felix in the Bond films. Someone who pops up now and again. Indy is supposed to be the next Bond, a girl in every port, his love is the adventure, not the woman. There should be a new damsel in every movie.
Marion wasn't exactly a new damsel. Given they had a fling before Raiders.

The Ark was supposed to be once again swallowed up by history and lost this time in government bureaucracy. And it left you wondering what was in all those other crates. It was a chilling ending. It was not supposed to be a to be continued until Crystal Skull ending. We weren't supposed to know where the Ark was. It cheapens Raiders at the expense of a joke, "Look, the Ark!"
And it was. It was just there there for a fan wink at fans.
Much like the "It's the Ark of the Covenant" joke in Last Crusade.

To have Indy survive an atomic blast in a completely implausible way goes farther than anything that ever happened in the series before and I say, way too far. Why not just have him get in a bomb shelter the government was testing the effectiveness of? Would have worked just as well.
Yeah, and it was no more absurd than any of the other pull-it-out-of-his-*** saves.

I have heard the aliens look like Close Encounters and that Lucas is clearly rehashing his AG roots. Maybe I'm wrong; I haven't seen it.
They look like the classic Greys for the most part. With a more swept back skull.

I am tired of poop and crotch jokes. If other people are amused by them, great. They did do the bit in Last Cruade where the rhino's horn almost hits Indy in the crotch. I'll grant you that.
There was more than just the one moment in the the 3 films that was jokey.

Except for having Nazis and Hitler the other movies just took place in the 30's and 40's. There was no popular music played. Indy didn't hide from the Nazis in a depression bread line. It was not a tour through everything people associate with those decades.
Other than... being exactly that. The 50's are just more memorable to folks.

As I said, I wouldn't have avoided or hated this film over a jungle cutter or a crotch joke, but an Indy that is played up as too old for the adventure reunited with an old flame and a new kid and meeting aliens and surviving an atomic blast in a refrigerator just ads up to can't see it.
Frankly there's no real reason for us to even debate it. You've already made up your mind and haven't even bothered to see it with an open mind.

El Chuxter
05-22-2008, 05:47 PM
Is the new definition for open mind: "I'm right, you're wrong, so you're closed-minded"?

It's next to impossible to not have some preconceived notions about everything. To have an open mind is to be able to accept something that's contrary to those notions, not to go and spend your time and money doing things you think you won't like just to confirm whether you will or not. If Droid doesn't think he's going to like the movie, there's no point in him seeing it.

You're right: there is no real reason to debate this further. It got tired about three pages back.

Droid
05-22-2008, 07:20 PM
Beast: It's a retread of Last Crusade? In no way shape or form at all.
The fact that Mutt's his son doesn't even come out until near the end of the film.
Droid: It is Lucas again harping on the father-son theme he does over and
over again. The fact that Mutt's his son came out the day they announced a young sidekick

Beast: Marion wasn't exactly a new damsel. Given they had a fling before Raiders.
Droid: She was new to the audience.

Beast: And it was. It was just there there for a fan wink at fans. Much like the "It's the Ark of the Covenant" joke in Last Crusade.
Droid: I'm tired of Lucas winking at me. And the Last Crusade Ark joke was funny because Indy had a VERY good reason to be sure what the Ark looked like. It didn't mess with the chilling ending of Raiders.

Beast: Yeah, and it was no more absurd than any of the other pull-it-out-of-his-*** saves.
Droid: Is there anything as absurd in the whole trilogy as surviving an atomic blast? I would like to know what the thing is that comes closest from the original trilogy.

Beast: They look like the classic Greys for the most part. With a more swept back skull.
Droid: Why not have him run into the T-Rex from Jurassic Park, E.T., or have the aliens look like Greedo?

Beast: There was more than just the one moment in the the 3 films that was jokey.
Droid: Agreed, but I'm talking about poop and crotch jokes.

Beast: Other than... being exactly that. The 50's are just more memorable to folks.
Droid: I don't think you can say there is more to remember about the 50's than the 30's and 40's. I'd wager you weren't alive for either. Indy could exist in a time period, without "I Like Ike" jokes and constant references screaming "IT'S THE FIFTIES!"

Beast: Frankly there's no real reason for us to even debate it. You've already made up your mind and haven't even bothered to see it with an open mind.
Droid: No hard feelings. I'm glad you liked it. I enjoy the debate, though I wish it was just a thread of us saying, "I loved it!" "Me too!" because that would mean they made an Indy film that didn't tear the fan base in half the way the prequles did. As to the open mind, I was open to a new Indy movie. But once I know what will be in the movie, there isn't much need to see it. Some ideas seem so bad to me the execution can not save them.

Beast
05-22-2008, 07:38 PM
Droid: It is Lucas again harping on the father-son theme he does over and
over again. The fact that Mutt's his son came out the day they announced a young sidekick
So Short Round is an awful character then. Gotcha.

Droid: She was new to the audience.
Semantics.

Droid: I'm tired of Lucas winking at me. And the Last Crusade Ark joke was funny because Indy had a VERY good reason to be sure what the Ark looked like. It didn't mess with the chilling ending of Raiders.
Neither did this. The Government swooped in just afterwards.

Droid: Is there anything as absurd in the whole trilogy as surviving an atomic blast? I would like to know what the thing is that comes closest from the original trilogy.
Pretty much everything. From super evading traps to not going over a cliff on a tank.

Droid: Why not have him run into the T-Rex from Jurassic Park, E.T., or have the aliens look like Greedo?
Because it's Indiana Jones. No fair playing a Strawman Argument.

Droid: Agreed, but I'm talking about poop and crotch jokes.
Yeah, the farting stinky elephants were really so much better. And what poop joke?

Droid: I don't think you can say there is more to remember about the 50's than the 30's and 40's. I'd wager you weren't alive for either. Indy could exist in a time period, without "I Like Ike" jokes and constant references screaming "IT'S THE FIFTIES!"
Happy Days makes the 50's more memorable. It's a very familiar and popular period. But I guess it would have been better for Indy to be 60+ in the 40's still for some crazy reason. And we could have had more boring Nazis.

Droid
05-22-2008, 08:28 PM
Beast:So Short Round is an awful character then. Gotcha.
Droid: I don't think people knew or assumed Short Round would be Indy's son the way they did with Mutt.

Beast: Semantics.
Droid: No. One is bringing back a character we had seen on screen before and one was a character fresh and new to the audience.

Beast: Neither did this. The Government swooped in just afterwards.
Droid: It still undermined the ending of Raiders where you didn't know what happened to the Ark.

Beast: Because it's Indiana Jones. No fair playing a Strawman Argument.
Droid: Exactly, which is why there shouldn't be a Close Encounters alien or a Star Wars piece of dialogue.

Beast: Pretty much everything. From super evading traps to not going over a cliff on a tank.
Droid: NOT falling into a trap and jumping off a tank are the same as surviving an atomic blast?

Beast: Yeah, the farting stinky elephants were really so much better. And what poop joke?
Droid: I agree that was more a shot at Jar Jar stepping in it and the eopie breaking wind. More of Lucas' juvenile humor. Don't remember fart jokes about the elephants.

Best: Happy Days makes the 50's more memorable. It's a very familiar and popular period. But I guess it would have been better for Indy to be 60+ in the 40's still for some crazy reason. And we could have had more boring Nazis.
Droid: I don't quarrel with Indy aging or being in the '50's one little bit. I quarrel with them repeatedly throwing in everything people associate with the '50's in case you didn't get the point. They didn't do that with the '30's and '40's.

bigbarada
05-22-2008, 10:05 PM
14. Made up vehicles like the jungle cutter or a car that drives around in water before going over waterfalls. The previous movies used real vehicles of the time.

Actually, this one is wrong. The flying wing from Raiders was a complete fabrication. There were flying wing prototypes back in WW2, but the technology to make them really practical didn't exist until the 80s and 90s.

Also, the tank from Last Crusade was another piece of fiction. That was actually loosely based on a very primitive WW1 tank design, the German tanks that were actually being used during the time period of the movie were A LOT more technologically advanced.

But that really just goes to show the skill of the production design for those films, because unless you know a little bit about the history of tanks and airplanes, then they feel authentic.

bigbarada
05-22-2008, 10:08 PM
Not that I need to give you more ammunition, Droid, but when asked for his last words Indiana says, "I like Ike." :cross-eye

JediTricks
05-22-2008, 10:14 PM
Indiana Jones and the Letdown of the Year


Ideas. That's what has defined George Lucas' cinematic career. In the first half, it was a man who knew how to convey ideas as feelings, sounds, stilted dialogue, and visuals. In the latter half of his career unfortunately, it's a lack of ideas that defines Lucas' works, and the remaining ideas he clings to and squeezes every last drop of life out of them long before they make it to the screen. It wouldn't be surprising to hear that a 64-year-old man has run out of gas, that the sparkle in his genius has dulled, and watching his recent movies it would certainly be easy to feel this way, but I think what is most confounding about "Uncle George" - as we used to call him in the '80s - is that when you listen to the guy talk about real life, when you get him off his bullet points and company marketing spokesmanship, he's still incredibly smart and wise and clever. Whether he is talking about the relationship between the audience and the movie, or the American public and their government, George Lucas still can be brilliant. Which makes it all the more tragic that the creator of Star Wars and Indiana Jones has become so thoroughly incapable of stoking the fires of his genius when called upon for his recent works. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is unfortunately a beacon of the man's faults - granted, the flaws in the film are as much in Steven Spielberg's hands as Lucas', but like his Star Wars prequels, George Lucas is the source of the later works even existing.

IJATKOTCS isn't even a worn out pack mule, it's a totally new world that our hero is sloppily thrust into - check that, actually, it's 3 new worlds: 1950s America, old age, and big money digital effects. Indy doesn't fit into any of them particularly well, the setting shows how little Indiana Jones really works in the postwar environment as each new concept of the era is shoved at him like a bumpy ride at Disneyland. And not one of those good rides like... well, like "Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye". Every '50s concept feels forced and overwhelming and either silly or too close to real for our intrepid hero. Shia LaBeouf doesn't make for a good fit as the James Dean or Brando type, the malt shop scene reeks of Back to the Future, the opening scene wants desperately to be American Graffiti, the Russian threat doesn't even really come to fruition until the villainess' boring, droning rant about taking over our thoughts. Meanwhile, scenes of Indy about to be killed by an atomic bomb are far too horrifying, leading to a rather underwhelming counterpoint survival method (what, Indy doesn't die in the middle of the film? Oh no, surely I've now spoiled it for you!). And the sci-fi doesn't feel at all like a delivery on the premises of those '50s B-movies, it's just a convoluted, out of place MacGuffin that yells "look at me!" far too loudly.

For "old age", it's no longer the professor costume where Indy feels out of place, far from it, the 65-year-old Harrison Ford seems right at home in the stodgy tweed vest and blazer; no, sadly now it's the fedora and rumpled brown leather coat where Indy seems out of place. And the camerawork here is none too kind to Ford's face, far too many shots are crammed way closer than they should be (most likely for digital effects work, thank you Mr. Lucas) and our hero looks like a relic, old and wrinkly and tired. What happened to "it's not the years honey, it's the mileage"? I guess the problem there was that was Ford's improvised line, and Lucas never understood what it meant, here we have an old man pretending not to be old. The gleam is too often lost in Indy's eyes, that sly Indy smile from finally figuring a way out of trouble too often not present, and the movie suffers greatly from the few hints we actually get at what it used to mean to be Indiana Jones. And there are far too many action scenes of Indy from the back to the point of distraction, we get it, you brought in a lot of stunt doubles.

The stunt doubles thing leads to another complaint, that this whole thing feels more like a video game with a thin plot rather than a true movie, and Indiana Jones has found the cheaty 1-up mushroom that keeps reappearing, those stunt doubles being the players' next guy. You never worry about screwing up the big jump in Bowser's castle when you know you have a dozen more guys lined up to try again, and here you almost never worry that Indy's going to be in real danger taking real lumps because there's someone else actually playing the guy for those parts. The plot feels very video-gamey (and I do mean "gamey") in how it lines up a situation and solves it without any discovery or ingenuity, there's nothing particularly clever going on here and Indy's skills here are apparently the enviable ability to fall into answers. There are no long reveals, the movie never trusts the audience to carry a piece of information or wonder about a character for more than a minute, it's all short bursts - but don't let that confuse you with "serial" styling that Lucas used to be a master of, that is entirely missing here with the film's downright dragging pace in the first half.

I was worried that Shia LaBeouf would be a major drag on this film, turns out none of the characters are fleshed out enough so he's not really bringing it down, the filmmakers give little importance and character development to anybody in this film, so nobody has a chance to shine or fail it. Shia plays his part well, he's another smartass jerk whose unlikeability is almost offset by his youthfulness but not quite, and the character is at parts dumb, smart, adventurous, fearful, studious, and a drop-out - he's a smorgasbord of ideas, and the only one that comes close to fruition is that he cares about his mom and his friend, even his love for his bike is cast aside too quickly. No, Shia's character Mutt is uninteresting but not as annoying as Short Round despite the greater plot conveniences to get him into the story.

The biggest reaction from the audience was the first scene with Karen Allen's character Marion, people really feel she's the right gal for Indy movies I guess, and they're right - in Raiders she was tough, strong Princess Leia-type only without the "princess" aspect. Here, she's given lots of screen time but little to actually do, there are some cute moments but far too many that try to be cuter than they are.

The Russian villains are constantly on the heroes heels, another way this film is like a video game, there's never 5 minutes without these very un-Indy villains running around doing great damage. Cate Blanchett really delivers a poor character in the villainess Irina Spalko, her motivation is paper thin and far too undeveloped despite the fact that it is, of course, her undoing. And the plot contrivances to get her to that point are beyond shameless, I don't want to give it away but it's essentially a character that shouldn't be in the main group dropping breadcrumbs.

I don't care for how this movie was shot, much of the time it feels too modern, too close, and too polished. The editing doesn't work for me either, there are some scenes which should be building suspense or excitement but instead are just chugging along to show us another trick - like it's trying too hard to be clever rather than good, and succeeding at neither. And John Williams' score, I don't know if the master has lost his touch or is merely conveying the lesser quality of what he was seeing. Either way, the end result is the same for this films score: empty, small, incapable of punctuating and even carrying scenes that his earlier works would make into signatures or at least prop up.

I wish I could tell you what I did like about it, but the truth is that I checked my cellphone and sent a text message about halfway through and for the first time ever in my moviegoing life, it didn't concern me at all to do so. Spielberg doesn't really bring any magic or spark to the directing, he doesn't fail too badly but it's certainly closer to 1941 than Raiders, only without the laughs of either. Production does a good job of giving a '50s feel but the action and situations often feel like they're going too fresh and out of any and all elements. There were a few chuckles but too often they were quickly overwhelmed by fiercely humor-free moments. There was a rich Indy environment that the film drew from, but it drew from that well a few too often in name rather than spirit. And while they "thought big" with the final act, the ending turns into a big CGI mess that says and does too little.

Ultimately, with puzzles that deliver no challenge or menace, situations that are too modern for the characters, dangers that are too realistic and thus unbelievable for our heroes to escape or survive, and an ending that is entirely lost in bad ideas, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a let-down. The film fills your time and keeps you from walking out, but is no continuation to the Indiana Jones saga, just a hollow shadow of its former self wrapped in expensive trappings with a small mixed bag of moments for the 3 main heroes, and nobody else. I went in thinking I might not like the movie, but at least it'd be good to see Indy in action, but came out without seeing Indy in action and disliking it for way different reasons than I expected. The best I can give it is a 5 out of 10.

General_Grievous
05-22-2008, 10:48 PM
Something else that bothered me (and this is a MAJOR spoiler for those that haven't seen the movie).






When Indy and Marion were married, NOBODY was there besides the few new characters. Where was Sallah? Katanga? Hell, even Short Round!? Did nobody think of bringing any of these characters back for Indy's wedding? Especially Sallah.

Bel-Cam Jos
05-22-2008, 11:00 PM
This was awesome! Went in costume (had several people ask me to pose with them in pics, little kids waved, shook a few hands), laughed in the theater, clapped at the end, smiled many times during. Found I could guess at how scenes would turn out. Great, and I plan to return a few times more. I just want to enjoy myself for a couple hours, and this was perfect for me.

p.s. The picture below is a weak attempt to semi-recreate the exchange-the-idol-for-a-bag-of-sand scene from ROTLA, using a tub of popcorn and a handfull for ones.

bigbarada
05-22-2008, 11:02 PM
Very well said, JT.

JediTricks
05-22-2008, 11:47 PM
I agree with that. Though I like Indiana Jones myself, I actually was always irritated that Lucasfilm rammed it down everyone's throat because it was Lucas and Harrison Ford. They put Indy in the Bantha Tracks and SW Insider.Didn't it used to be the Lucasfilm fan magazine though?



As a child I loved the Transformers cartoon and hated Transformers the cartoon movie. I was crazy about the first Ghostbusters and Gremlins and hated the sequels. I adored Back to the Future and loathed Back to the Future II. I thought the Neverending Story part II was an atrocity.
As a child I was crazy about Star Wars and thought the two Ewok movies were a mess.

My whole life, at any age, there was fiction I liked and thought was well done, and there was fiction I thought was terrible. I just don't buy into the view that I am not as forgiving as I was as a child.Excellent points, I wholeheartedly agree!



Well, I'm going to have surgery as an alternative. I'll have to see this one some time later.It wasn't so bad that I would suggest having surgery to avoid it, but it was close. ;) j/k



I just got back from a midnight showing of Indy and the movie was alright. Nothing great. The alien stuff didn't bother me that much, other than the fact that there have been soooooo many movies and TV shows about aliens over the last few decades that this just felt very old hat. I think the magic of the original films was that they dealt with subject matter that you just don't see too many movies about these days. This felt like a 50s-retro episode of the X-Files. I just wish they had been more original when choosing the story instead of making yet another UFO movie.

It's not that I have anything against alien and UFO stories, I'm just a little bored of them. Add to that the inconsistent, awkward pacing of the film and Crystal Skull isn't even a very compelling or interesting UFO movie.I just threw a GIANT spoiler warning over your post, some folks will not think about it when they click the link and I don't want to hear the complaints.

Anyway, totally agree with you on those points. We've kinda talked the alien thing out already, but it's worth saying that it doesn't fit but it's not alone such a glaring issue that the movie crumbles under the concept's weight (though I do take issue with it being there and the execution is poorly realized).

Also, I think some of the magic of the original Indy films is they showed us stuff we hadn't seen in a while really, it was "old" by then, that of the serials, the occult and religious artifacts, the pre-war stuff. Aliens are "old hat" but they're still "now" IMO, especially how it was used here. More subtlety and subterfuge about whether or not they were aliens, and a totally different ending could have changed that.


However, the strength of Indiana Jones movies is not in the treasure, it's in the characters. Unfortunately the film fails there too. There is zero chemistry between Indy and Mutt and all of their interactions seem forced. There's nothing even remotely resembling Indy's interactions with Short Round in TOD or Henry Jones Sr. in Last Crusade. It's like they tried to subdue Shia's over-the-top personality so much that they completely eradicated it. He ends up being a one-dimensional cardboard cutout of a 50s bad boy.Agreed. I found Mutt less annoying than Shorty, but he really didn't connect with Indy that well, and he wasn't much of a character.


Iron Man is still the best movie I've seen this yearRight on! Same here, probably one of the most satisfying moviegoing experiences I've had in years, I can't think of anything since Spider-man 2, Batman Begins maybe (actually, I'd say I thought more of BB but enjoyed the moviegoing experience of SM2 more).


First off: the aliens. I have made up my mind that aliens and Indiana Jones don't mix very well. And I was one of the ones who was being optimistic about them in the first place. It was just so distracting to me. It didn't really ruin the movie for me due to the other cool stuff that was in it that I mentioned above, but it was still unneccessary. But I would take the aliens any day over the scene where Shia LaBeouf swung on vines with CGI monkeys. I was actually horrified when I saw that. That had to have been one of the stupidest things I have ever seen on screen. And it HAD to have been George Lucas's idea. It was probably his little trademark of senility. I hated that scene much more than anything involving aliens. At what point did anyone think that was a good idea?Heh, I had forgotten about that aspect to a degree, it was very bad. And they had his hairstyle, thanks for that laffer, Georgie boy!


Yeah, the monkey swinging scene was not only stupid, but it was pointless. Mutt just ended up right back where he started. No, he ended up ahead of the vehicles he had just been dumped out of, making for the world's fastest rope-swinger (I suppose the idea is they went the long way around and he took this shortcut, but that concept TOTALLY fails to translate).


I am glad that some of you are enjoying the film. The primary spoilers that I read that made me believe I could never enjoy this film and made me choose never to see it are:

1. That aliens are shown and that the aliens fly away in their alien spaceship.True, and it's not even well-done, it's sloppy and largely without meaning or impact.


2. The CGI monkeys and ants and prairie dogs and overall overuse of CGI.True, the monkeys are the worst offenders. The ants neither totally work nor totally fail, so it's not too bad but it's not what they were going for either.


3. Indy having a son.True, but this barely resonates because there's so little character development for anybody here. It's biggest impact is really just 1 joke repeated 3 times.


4. Marion being in the film.Alone wouldn't be worth shying away from, she's not the spunky girl sidekick she used to be but she's not TOO bad, just thin characterization.


5. Mutt doing his Tarzan thing.It sucked, but didn't weigh the movie down for me outside the overall flaws it contributed to. It alone wouldn't be enough to not see it, just a good time to go get a soda.


6. The Indy's "too old for this" schtickThis isn't really there thankfully, but it turned out IMO that Ford really is too old for this.


7. The Return to the Raiders warehouse.True, and the payoff is actually worse than I expected, in some ways.


8. The Ark being shown.At this point, the damage is done anyway, so when it comes up it's already just a rude exclamation point on a bad choice.


9. Indy surviving an atomic blast and being sent flying miles in refrigerator.True, and I didn't care for this at all.


10. The tour through nostalgia by revisiting American Grafiti and Close Encounters.Yup, and it's such a crass way of using the filmmaker's sentimentalism as a prop rather than as a feeling.


11. Indy saying, "I've got a bad feeling about this."True, but it worked for me.


12. Jokes concerning Mutt getting hit in the crotch with plants.Cripes, you sure you didn't see this film? I had sorta forgotten about that, and his legs get digitally longer too so the scene will work, I didn't like this part but it came and went quickly.


13. The fact that they beat you over the head with the 1950's between a Elvis song, Mutt's Brando impression, a malt shop, a fight between jocks and slicks, the atom bomb, and Indy getting a Red Scare firing. The Indy movies took place in the '30's and '40's, but it was not a Forrest Gump style Indy encounters every cliche or element of those time periods. That was the worst part of the Indy TV show, other than 90 year old Indy.Ok, that "Forrest Gump" line was right on the money, goodness that one nails one of this movie's problems. And the cliches it does press upon us aren't evenly applied. And yeah, that was one of the reasons I hated Young Indy, which they bring up in the movie BTW and it's too obvious.


There were no modern songs played in the other Indy movies (maybe Anything Goes, but that was a part of the plot shown to establish Willie as a singer and to show they were in China)."Sweet Little Headache" in Last Crusade, but it was done tastefully unlike here.


14. Made up vehicles like the jungle cutter or a car that drives around in water before going over waterfalls. The previous movies used real vehicles of the time.This is unfair, the Flying Wing in Raiders is made up and it was a spectacular piece. The Jungle Cutter is just underwhelming though, another Clone Turbo Tank situation. But the Duck (amphibious car) that goes over the waterfalls, totally real vehicle - never would survive that beating though, or those speeds or handling, all the amphibious cars of the '50s were crappy like that. Hell, the Germans had a swimming car in WW2, the Schwimmenwagen.



Oh, and the only reason Indy survives the blast is because the refrigerator is lined with lead.Yeah, I chuckled when they showed it. That it physically took that beating and flew so far and so fast and Indy walked out unscathed was BS though, Indy's survived some crazy stuff but all that was just way over the top when taken together.



Actually, this one is wrong. The flying wing from Raiders was a complete fabrication. There were flying wing prototypes back in WW2, but the technology to make them really practical didn't exist until the 80s and 90s.First off, stop posting my thoughts before I have them. ;) Second, the real flying wing design that actually flies is little like what the one in Raiders was, that thing looked great but was designed purely for showin', not for goin'.


Also, the tank from Last Crusade was another piece of fiction. That was actually loosely based on a very primitive WW1 tank design, the German tanks that were actually being used during the time period of the movie were A LOT more technologically advanced.This is incorrect, the LC tank is a WW1 British Mark IV tank with a main gun on the top: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Mark_IV_Tadpole_tank.jpg
and you forgot that it wasn't the Germans' tank, it was the King of Hatay's tank which he supplied to the Germans.



Not that I need to give you more ammunition, Droid, but when asked for his last words Indiana says, "I like Ike." :cross-eyeOh, I didn't like that at all. And then it was written on the side of the A-bomb they dropped on him.



Something else that bothered me (and this is a MAJOR spoiler for those that haven't seen the movie).

When Indy and Marion were married, NOBODY was there besides the few new characters. Where was Sallah? Katanga? Hell, even Short Round!? Did nobody think of bringing any of these characters back for Indy's wedding? Especially Sallah.That was weird, but it seemed like they were going for "we did this very last minute" which is why they showed so many empty rows in that little church. It did reek of lazy though, especially after bringing back so much other stuff from the originals.



This was awesome! Went in costume (had several people ask me to pose with them in pics, little kids waved, shook a few hands), laughed in the theater, clapped at the end, smiled many times during. Found I could guess at how scenes would turn out. Great, and I plan to return a few times more. I just want to enjoy myself for a couple hours, and this was perfect for me.

p.s. The picture below is a weak attempt to semi-recreate the exchange-the-idol-for-a-bag-of-sand scene from ROTLA, using a tub of popcorn and a handfull for ones.Nicely done! Your pants are the wrong color though, should be brown instead of gray. ;)

I decided not to wear my hat, it just didn't seem right. Vic, the manager of the theater by me (one of the original Hollywood movie palaces), was taking tickets in a very good Indy costume, only thing wrong was the short, black bullwhip, and he was clean-shaven. He's worn so many costumes for opening weekend, from Batman to Capt Jack to all sorts of stuff, his Iron Man was hilarious while some are very good. They have a poster celebrating his 20 years there with many of the costumes he's worn on duty.



Very well said, JT.Thanks, it was a non-stop outpouring from the moment I turned on the computer, there was actually much more in my head, hence this reply (and yet still MUCH more), but I felt like concentrating on the key "overall" aspects which bothered me rather than the little things.

plasticfetish
05-23-2008, 12:39 AM
First up, I changed the title of this thread, adding the word "spoilers." Which isn't a big deal, as I can't see how anyone could possibly talk about this movie without letting a few things slip. Maybe we should just say, "What the heck!" for once, and let 'em roll.

Anyone disagree?

-----

So anyway, I saw this film a few hours ago with my son, and for the most part, we had a good time. I think that JT's review of the film (above) is very good, and hits on the one thing that I left feeling; that though this movie was entertaining in many ways, it really failed to be thrilling. I mean... given that we waited nearly 20 years, I'd expect this one to blow my socks off, but it didn’t.

I didn't hate it though, and on the whole I'd say that it was closer to a 6 (or 7-ish) out of 10. I think it was firmly in keeping with the genre, which to me has always required some serious suspension of disbelief. I mean, if you can believe that a guy with a bullwhip is able to defeat an army of armed German soldiers, then you should be able to let a few other things slide as well.

And as awesome as it wasn’t, I suppose at the same time I have very low expectations, so I’m more than happy with what we got. I love the first Indiana Jones film, don’t care for Temple of Doom at all, and though I like the third movie, I didn’t bother to watch it ‘till a few years after it was released.

What I wanted from this film was a corny, action packed visit to those Indy films from the past. Partly to bring some closure--which is what Crystal Skull managed to do--and partly to remind us of how clever those films could be, and that’s what we got very little of.

Many of the details and story elements that have bothered some people, don’t bother me at all actually. I’m willing to ignore the over-the-top things like Mutt’s Tarzan stunt, which was stupid, and could have been easily replaced by him hopping on a motorcycle ridden by a Russian (which would have been a nice way to bring the motorcycle thing back into the story.) I’m not as offended by the whole “alien” thing as most, because if I can buy the Holy Grail saving Indy’s dad thing, then a few “interdementional beings” aren’t so bad.

What did and does really suck about this film though, and I suppose it’s my one and only real complaint, is that this film lacks that big corny “lesson” at the end, that we got with the other films. Raiders had the whole “hubris” thing, Temple of Doom was about “greed” (I suppose... I’ve never watched that film too closely, as it seems to take place entirely underground, and it bores me to death), and then Last Crusade was all about loyalty and family. Crystal Skull seems to hint at a lot of things, but fails to deliver on any of them in a significant way.

...a complaint that I could make about all of Lucas’ recent efforts, which I suppose is why many of those ring as a bit hollow also.

Mvader91
05-23-2008, 12:42 AM
I guess is see this as, it is only a movie. A story, this is not a real life documentary of a guy named "Indiana Jones". Indiana was george lucas' dog's name. I guess i try to keep things in perspective. Does this story hold things true to life? No, He uses moments in history to help people relate to the era of time in which it could take place. This is why it is classified as
FICTION!

El Chuxter
05-23-2008, 12:57 AM
Even through this morning, I was holding out hope that everyone would tell me this was an amazing movie, and not to be missed. It seems the consensus is somewhere between passable and lousy, probably around meh. Between that and the impression I've gotten from the advance info and spoilers, I guess this'll be a cable movie.

I will watch it, but I'm not planning to replicate the experiences of letdown sequels of the past, like ROTS, Jurassic Park ///, and X-Men: The Last Stand. I can deal with mediocrity on the small screen. It's not as easy to forgive on the giant one. Who knows; maybe I could still be surprised.

For those of you saying Iron Man is the best movie of the year, I'd recommend another little movie that's not doing as well. I won't name it; it should be obvious. I'm not going to shove it down your throat, but I imagine a few of you might change your minds if you watch it. (Of the five people here who'll admit to seeing it, three thought it was the most fun they've had in their adult lives, and the other two liked it, too.) :thumbsup:

bigbarada
05-23-2008, 12:59 AM
I guess is see this as, it is only a movie. A story, this is not a real life documentary of a guy named "Indiana Jones". Indiana was george lucas' dog's name. I guess i try to keep things in perspective. Does this story hold things true to life? No, He uses moments in history to help people relate to the era of time in which it could take place. This is why it is classified as
FICTION!

I don't think anyone here is arguing that this is reality. Of course it's fiction, but there is well-constructed fiction and poorly-constructed fiction. Crystal Skull just happens to be the latter.

Mvader91
05-23-2008, 01:02 AM
Don't get me wrong I agree,monkey deal,yeah right. The straddling of jeeps getting racked repeatedly. Gimmie a break. I guess I'm just being hopeful that this one, They're a little rusty after nineteen years. I am still optimistic about the next one.

bigbarada
05-23-2008, 01:09 AM
Don't get me wrong I agree,monkey deal,yeah right. The straddling of jeeps getting racked repeatedly. Gimmie a break. I guess I'm just being hopeful that this one, They're a little rusty after nineteen years. I am still optimistic about the next one.

Rusty? George Lucas had over ten years of planning and making the prequels for "practice." Speilberg has been making films almost non-stop since Last Crusade. Harrison hasn't done anything big in a while, but he was one of the number one Hollywood action stars for most of the 90s.

Rust has nothing to do with it. I think this can all be chalked up to a loss of inspiration and a lack of fresh ideas.

El Chuxter
05-23-2008, 01:12 AM
A long hiatus didn't seem to hurt John Rambo or Rocky Balboa.

plasticfetish
05-23-2008, 01:32 AM
For those of you saying Iron Man is the best movie of the year, I'd recommend another little movie that's not doing as well. I won't name it; it should be obvious. I'm not going to shove it down your throat, but I imagine a few of you might change your minds if you watch it. (Of the five people here who'll admit to seeing it, three thought it was the most fun they've had in their adult lives, and the other two liked it, too.)Off topic, but I think you should really give Iron Man a chance. I know you're not a huge fan of the character, but all that aside, it really is a well made film. And I freely admit that Speed Racer was a great film. The more I think back on it, the more I like it actually.

Crystal Skull? Ehhhh... not so much.

JediTricks
05-23-2008, 01:45 AM
So anyway, I saw this film a few hours ago with my son, and for the most part, we had a good time. I think that JT's review of the film (above) is very good, and hits on the one thing that I left feeling; that though this movie was entertaining in many ways, it really failed to be thrilling. I mean... given that we waited nearly 20 years, I'd expect this one to blow my socks off, but it didn’t.One phrase that I've heard a lot is that it's "somewhat exciting but largely joyless", and I guess that rings true for me, the joy of Indy isn't here.


I didn't hate it though, and on the whole I'd say that it was closer to a 6 (or 7-ish) out of 10. I think it was firmly in keeping with the genre, which to me has always required some serious suspension of disbelief. I mean, if you can believe that a guy with a bullwhip is able to defeat an army of armed German soldiers, then you should be able to let a few other things slide as well.That's the thing, people think of it as Indy's that superhero, but you watch the 3 films and he takes a lot of lumps, and takes down his enemies 1 or 2 at a time, sometimes they even overwhelm him, beat him, and then he finds a different way to take them down. He uses his gun, his whip, his fists, his cleverness, his knowledge, and his resourcefulness - everything he's got - until either he's gotten away or he's won the day or they've beaten him. And beat him they often do. It's a serials-style action hero but it's not as outlandish and cartoonish as many people make it out to be - Indy didn't defeat a dozen Germans in Cairo the way you describe, he took them out 1 or 2 at a time via truck; didn't defeat Cairo henchmen by the dozens, he punched a couple and shot a couple more, and scared more off with his whip; and he defeated just 2 Germans after the truck, and even that was 1 at at time. Indy changes the playing field to fit his advantages, and most of the time he doesn't even win, he just survives. He doesn't take down that many Thuggee or Last Crusade Germans either, the most damage he does is during that tank scene and that was largely taking advantage of confusion and surprise.


What did and does really suck about this film though, and I suppose it’s my one and only real complaint, is that this film lacks that big corny “lesson” at the end, that we got with the other films. Raiders had the whole “hubris” thing, Temple of Doom was about “greed” (I suppose... I’ve never watched that film too closely, as it seems to take place entirely underground, and it bores me to death), and then Last Crusade was all about loyalty and family. Crystal Skull seems to hint at a lot of things, but fails to deliver on any of them in a significant way.A buddy of mine said to me when I got home basically "what was the moral? I couldn't figure it out, I think maybe reconciliation?" and neither of us really could find a place where that fit the overall story or anything. The movie has nothing to say except "come watch us make another movie because we can."



For those of you saying Iron Man is the best movie of the year, I'd recommend another little movie that's not doing as well. I won't name it; it should be obvious. I'm not going to shove it down your throat, but I imagine a few of you might change your minds if you watch it. (Of the five people here who'll admit to seeing it, three thought it was the most fun they've had in their adult lives, and the other two liked it, too.) :thumbsup:Every time you pimp Speed Racer at me, I put off seeing it one more day. I kid you not. I was going to see it in the middle of last week, and now not even this week probably. Don't try to feed me manure and tell me it's fillet mignon, just tell me it's nitrogen-rich and let me smell it for myself and make that decision. I recommended to you giving Iron Man a try because I really enjoyed the heck out of it despite not really liking the comics character, a place you are also coming from IIRC, so at least when I suggested it (once, might I add), I gave you good reasons. The best way to get me to watch Speed Racer is to have Spridle and Chim Chim hide in the trunk of the Mach 5 and then be jostled to death during a race.



Don't get me wrong I agree,monkey deal,yeah right. The straddling of jeeps getting racked repeatedly. Gimmie a break. I guess I'm just being hopeful that this one, They're a little rusty after nineteen years. I am still optimistic about the next one.Rusty? It's not like they haven't all been actively making movies the past decade! Granted, most of Ford's and Lucas' were crappy, but still. Lucas should have made a movie before the Prequels to shake the sillies out of his system and use his new toys, he didn't, but certainly that shouldn't have been the case here.



A long hiatus didn't seem to hurt John Rambo or Rocky Balboa.Tell that to their HGH-riddled bodies. ;)

bigbarada
05-23-2008, 01:45 AM
A long hiatus didn't seem to hurt John Rambo or Rocky Balboa.

Ummm,... you're being sarcastic right?:D

I didn't watch John Rambo, but I did NOT like Rocky Balboa at all.

Also, go see Iron Man. I wasn't planning on watching that movie, because I was never much of an Iron Man fan, but it is definitely the best superhero movie I have ever seen.

I'll have to go out of town to see Speed Racer, but I do plan to watch it based on what I've been reading about it here.

Mvader91
05-23-2008, 01:52 AM
I gotta tell ya, Iron Man was awesome. Pleasantly surprised.

plasticfetish
05-23-2008, 02:09 AM
That's the thing, people think of it as Indy's that superhero, but you watch the 3 films and he takes a lot of lumps...A good point. I suppose I've looked at the Indiana Jones character in the same way that I've looked at James Bond. It's all just beyond the range of reality, but not so far beyond that you'd call it complete fiction. That's the great thing about Raiders to me I suppose... that it walks a tight line between fantasy and reality.

I tell you this though, it's always been a part of Lucas' nature to throw totally unbelievable elements into these films. I remember seeing Raiders at a test screening long before it was released, and there was this scene in the film where they show Indy riding the submarine's periscope through the ocean, on his way to the island at the end. On the comment cards that we were given after the showing, my friends and I all noted how incredibly stupid that one element was. Later when we saw that it had been cut, we were pretty happy... and surprised.

Some things about this film seemed to need that kind of a reality check. I really wonder if Lucas/Spielberg gets that anymore from anyone.

Beast
05-23-2008, 07:34 AM
What did and does really suck about this film though, and I suppose it’s my one and only real complaint, is that this film lacks that big corny “lesson” at the end, that we got with the other films. Raiders had the whole “hubris” thing, Temple of Doom was about “greed” (I suppose... I’ve never watched that film too closely, as it seems to take place entirely underground, and it bores me to death), and then Last Crusade was all about loyalty and family. Crystal Skull seems to hint at a lot of things, but fails to deliver on any of them in a significant way.
Well, there's "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". ;)

After all, Irina Spalko's quest ended in tragety for her for much that reason.

bigbarada
05-23-2008, 09:16 AM
A good point. I suppose I've looked at the Indiana Jones character in the same way that I've looked at James Bond. It's all just beyond the range of reality, but not so far beyond that you'd call it complete fiction. That's the great thing about Raiders to me I suppose... that it walks a tight line between fantasy and reality.

I tell you this though, it's always been a part of Lucas' nature to throw totally unbelievable elements into these films. I remember seeing Raiders at a test screening long before it was released, and there was this scene in the film where they show Indy riding the submarine's periscope through the ocean, on his way to the island at the end. On the comment cards that we were given after the showing, my friends and I all noted how incredibly stupid that one element was. Later when we saw that it had been cut, we were pretty happy... and surprised.

Some things about this film seemed to need that kind of a reality check. I really wonder if Lucas/Spielberg gets that anymore from anyone.

Lucas seemed a lot more responsive to criticism back in those days, but that was before he was subjected to decades of pathetic fanboys declaring "George Lucas is God!" So, I think his success has gone to his head and he's lost all of his objectivity (the current crop of "Lucas can do no wrong" fanboys aren't helping matters either).

Droid
05-23-2008, 09:19 AM
1. I take it back about complaining about made up vehicles.

2. So were the ants bigger than normal ants? I think real ants could have been effective; giant ants is dumb.

3. How did Indy get into the sub in Raiders?

4. Great idea, JediTricks! Lucas should totally have made a CGI spectacular that was for kids and totally silly to warm up for TPM. Then used some restraint for the prequels.

5. Beast, funny you mention Happy Days, because this feels like Indy jumping the shark to me.

6. I can't believe Indy gets married! Many of you have been searching for a theme, well I think it is this - Indy was just fooling around for all those years, leading himself to believe that he could find hapiness on his adventures and quests for the unknown. No, his adventures left him hollow and empty. He needed a "nuclear" family to be happy, like everyone. And so at the end of his life, he gets his reward, a wife and child. Well I think that is stupid and horrible and goes against everything Indiana Jones is supposed to be.

James Kirk had a better sendoff because they figured out that his crew was his family and that making a difference was the love of his life. I hated Generations, but at least he died with his boots on.

And at the end of Cheers, the final season's story arc concluded with Sam feeling sorry for himself because he had no wife or family and then he realized the people at the bar and the bar itself were all he needed, leading him to say, "I'm the luckiest son of a b**** in the world."

This Indy movie reflects Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford's changing world view. Spielberg once said that he couldn't make Close Encounters now because at the end Dreyfuss flies away in the spaceship, never to see his family again. And Spielberg said he couldn't do that anymore. Lucas was obviously changed by his children and it shows in the Star Wars movies. Even Ford has settled down to help raise his girlfriend's son. And I am happy for all of them, but the movies ain't real life and house husbands don't necessarily make for great fiction.

Anyone connect that Spielberg has now said he couldn't make Raiders or Last Crusade because of the Nazis, couldn't make the Color Purple because it should have been directed by an African-American (but it was OK to make Amistad?), and that he couldn't do Close Encouters the same way? What has he done in his career he doesn't regret?!

I'm sure they'll do another Jones movie where it makes them like the Incredibles or something where the whole Jones family goes on an adventure. It could start out by showing the cliches of modern suburbia, maybe Indy even using his whip to steal some of Marion's tasty treats she russles up in the kitchen, or to fetch the paper off the lawn.

El Chuxter
05-23-2008, 09:24 AM
JT, I wasn't pimping Speed Racer at you. I figure you're not going to like it. I'm surprised you liked Iron Man (which I am trying to see, by the way), what with it being a movie and all. :p

JEDIpartner
05-23-2008, 09:34 AM
A long hiatus didn't seem to hurt John Rambo or Rocky Balboa.

Oh, yeah... those last couple Rocky movies were all so brilliant. :rolleyes: Did no one care about the Rambo movie? It seemed to come and go rather quickly. Wait did it even come out? I wasn't paying attention.

The film is definitely the weakest of the four and really seems like something from a different franchise. It doesn't feel like anyone except the original actors were involved in it. I was still entertained but I also wasn't expecting the moon and the stars since that's not how I approached the SW prequels. I know better. I'd give it a B in terms of films but a C- in comparison to the rest of the series.

El Chuxter
05-23-2008, 09:40 AM
I haven't seen either of the latter-day Stallone movies, but thought I'd give Caesar a birthday present by praising them anyway.

HAPPYBIRTHDAYPAULIE!!! :thedeuce:

Droid
05-23-2008, 10:24 AM
Was Willie in the movie? It had been rumored that she would be.

So they showed pictures of Brody and Henry, Sr. and had Indy talking to them establishing they were dead? Were there pictures of anyone else? Sallah? Willie (they showed a picture of her in the set decoration photos)? Short Round? ELSA?!

Bel-Cam Jos
05-23-2008, 10:43 AM
Nicely done! Your pants are the wrong color though, should be brown instead of gray. ;)

I decided not to wear my hat, it just didn't seem right. Vic, the manager of the theater by me (one of the original Hollywood movie palaces), was taking tickets in a very good Indy costume, only thing wrong was the short, black bullwhip, and he was clean-shaven. He's worn so many costumes for opening weekend, from Batman to Capt Jack to all sorts of stuff, his Iron Man was hilarious while some are very good. They have a poster celebrating his 20 years there with many of the costumes he's worn on duty.The camera flash bleached out the color; it actually is brown (more khaki, I suppose). Odd thing was apparently a student from my high school recognized me as "a teacher." Need to use the Indy line from this movie maybe ("You're a teacher?" "Part time." :thumbsup: ).

I'm just going to be the voice of naivete here, then. I have seen no films this calendar year prior to seeing IJ yesterday. I really dislike "real life" movies now, which just proves I'm getting old and crotchety. :rolleyes: Is it so wrong to suspend belief for a brief period in your life, sit back, and just watch a dang made-up movie now and then? That's what I took out of it. No need to look at the uber-specific nickpicking (and yeah, I've done that before, so I realize my own hypocracy, I suppose... but one can change, right?) and ruin the fun. Do I need to believe it's real? NO! Sure, have your own views; I don't deny someone their opinions. I just am going in with a spoiler-free childlike wonder, and I kept that throughout the film, after the credits rolled (I stay for credits, too... surprised?), and still have it now.

:stepsoffsoapbox: :yes:

Droid
05-23-2008, 10:54 AM
I'm just going to be the voice of naivete here, then. I have seen no films this calendar year prior to seeing IJ yesterday. I really dislike "real life" movies now, which just proves I'm getting old and crotchety. :rolleyes: Is it so wrong to suspend belief for a brief period in your life, sit back, and just watch a dang made-up movie now and then? That's what I took out of it. No need to look at the uber-specific nickpicking (and yeah, I've done that before, so I realize my own hypocracy, I suppose... but one can change, right?) and ruin the fun. Do I need to believe it's real? NO! Sure, have your own views; I don't deny someone their opinions. I just am going in with a spoiler-free childlike wonder, and I kept that throughout the film, after the credits rolled (I stay for credits, too... surprised?), and still have it now.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, but they could have made a DIFFERENT movie and made it just as much fun, but up to a quality that would survive nitpicking.

Beast
05-23-2008, 11:04 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed it, but they could have made a DIFFERENT movie and made it just as much fun, but up to a quality that would survive nitpicking.
There's no such thing. No matter what was made, it would have been nitpicked.

Droid
05-23-2008, 01:03 PM
There's no such thing. No matter what was made, it would have been nitpicked.

I didn't say avoid nitpicking; I said survive nitpicking.

JEDIpartner
05-23-2008, 01:10 PM
Who's got a problem with nits now? Time to get out the "special" shampoo!!!!

bigbarada
05-23-2008, 02:34 PM
Was Willie in the movie? It had been rumored that she would be.

So they showed pictures of Brody and Henry, Sr. and had Indy talking to them establishing they were dead? Were there pictures of anyone else? Sallah? Willie (they showed a picture of her in the set decoration photos)? Short Round? ELSA?!

I didn't see Willie anywhere. They did show pictures of Brody and Henry Sr. Also I seem to remember someone crashing into a statue of Brody on the campus and the head breaks off and lands in their lap. Very classy.:rolleyes:

General_Grievous
05-23-2008, 03:24 PM
Was Willie in the movie? It had been rumored that she would be.

So they showed pictures of Brody and Henry, Sr. and had Indy talking to them establishing they were dead? Were there pictures of anyone else? Sallah? Willie (they showed a picture of her in the set decoration photos)? Short Round? ELSA?!

Why would Indy have a picture of Elsa? She was a Nazi (She talksch in her schleep). They didn't need to shoehorn every possible character from the first three. But Sallah, Indy's best friend, really should have shown up at the end. The others I don't really need to know about. But it would have been fun to see a 35 year old Short Round reunited with Indy.

Beast
05-23-2008, 03:45 PM
Why would Indy have a picture of Elsa? She was a Nazi (She talksch in her schleep). They didn't need to shoehorn every possible character from the first three. But Sallah, Indy's best friend, really should have shown up at the end. The others I don't really need to know about. But it would have been fun to see a 35 year old Short Round reunited with Indy.
They should have had Indy and Marion get in the limo to go off to their honeymoon.

Have Short Round as the driver turn around... "Now's time for love, Docter Jones." :D

El Chuxter
05-23-2008, 03:58 PM
Have Short Round as the driver turn around... "Now's time for love, Docter Jones." :D

The rest of the movie could've been Harrison Ford making armpit farts and saying, "You dumb***es thought you were gonna see a real movie, didn't ya?" And if that scene were in there, it would automatically be a five-star movie. No, a six-star movie. A new category would have to be created for it.

(I'm not up on Indy EU. Is there something that tells whatever became of Shorty?)

Darkness Shroud
05-23-2008, 04:01 PM
Hi,

Apparently in the Indiana Jones Diary, Short Round tracks down the peacocks eye diamond that Indiana had chased throughout the years. The one from The Temple of Doom.

Hope that helps.

bigbarada
05-23-2008, 04:49 PM
They should have had Indy and Marion get in the limo to go off to their honeymoon.

Have Short Round as the driver turn around... "Now's time for love, Docter Jones." :D

That would have saved the movie in my eyes.:D

Beast
05-23-2008, 04:59 PM
Apperantly the remaining Communists in Russia are seeing red over Indiana Jones.

Indiana Jones makes Russian communists see red
Fri May 23, 2008 9:40am BST

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Communist party members in St Petersburg on Friday condemned the new Indiana Jones' film as crude anti-Soviet propaganda that distorted history and called for it to be banned from Russian screens.

"Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" stars Harrison Ford as an archaeologist in 1957 competing with an evil KGB agent, played by Cate Blanchett, to find a skull endowed with mystic powers.

"What galls is how together with America we defeated Hitler, and how we sympathised when Bin Laden hit them. But they go ahead and scare kids with Communists. These people have no shame," said Viktor Perov, a communist party member in Russia's second city.

The comments were made at a meeting of the local Communist party and posted on its Internet site www.kplo.ru.

"Our women don't look like Nazis, but maybe Cate Blanchett was threatened by unemployment, so ... she made this film," Perov said.

The film, the fourth in the hugely successful Indiana Jones series, went on release in Russian cinemas on Thursday. Russian media said it was being shown on 808 screens, the widest ever release for a Hollywood movie.

"Harrison Ford and Cate Blanchett (are) second-rate actors, serving as the running dogs of the CIA. We need to deprive these people of the right of entering the country," said another party member, Andrei Gindos.

"The film is low-quality and would raise a smile if there wasn't a danger of drawing into its orbit teenagers who know nothing about the 1950s," Vladimir Mukhin, another member, said in comments on the Internet site.

Mukhin said he would ask the Culture Ministry to ban the film for its "anti-Soviet propaganda".

"Indians and aliens unite with Jones and his untrustworthy buddies to save the world from a Russian threat - what rubbish, simply a paranoid Churchillian fantasy," Mukhin said.

(Reporting by Chris Baldwin, editing by Richard Balmforth)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/filmNews/idUKL2344657520080523

El Chuxter
05-23-2008, 05:07 PM
I take it Red Dawn and Wargames aren't popular over there, either.

JediTricks
05-23-2008, 05:31 PM
Well, there's "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". ;)

After all, Irina Spalko's quest ended in tragety for her for much that reason.This is not thematically carried throughout the film. In fact, it's only moments before her demise that she even shows interest in "knowing everything", it certainly couldn't be the movie's moral that way.


2. So were the ants bigger than normal ants? I think real ants could have been effective; giant ants is dumb.They weren't ridiculously oversized like the size of a cat or something, there have been giant insects that size before (about an inch), it wasn't unbelievable in of itself, just not as inspired or effective as it needed to be.


3. How did Indy get into the sub in Raiders?He doesn't, he rides on the outside, then when it gets to its secret pen, he swims off and climbs up into the base. It's just SEEING that he's riding on the periscope is too much to believe, it's outlandish, so by taking it out (I remember this too), it's up to the imagination of the audience member to decide how much of that they want to accept.


4. Great idea, JediTricks! Lucas should totally have made a CGI spectacular that was for kids and totally silly to warm up for TPM. Then used some restraint for the prequels.I know, I'll never understand why he didn't make something else first, especially since he's always complaining about how he doesn't get to make other movies.


6. I can't believe Indy gets married! Many of you have been searching for a theme, well I think it is this - Indy was just fooling around for all those years, leading himself to believe that he could find hapiness on his adventures and quests for the unknown. No, his adventures left him hollow and empty. He needed a "nuclear" family to be happy, like everyone. And so at the end of his life, he gets his reward, a wife and child. Well I think that is stupid and horrible and goes against everything Indiana Jones is supposed to be.He's also made the college associate dean. It's a very bad case of "happyendingitis".



James Kirk had a better sendoff because they figured out that his crew was his family and that making a difference was the love of his life. I hated Generations, but at least he died with his boots on.I hated Generations and Kirk's death there, and they had to go and reshoot it because the original way they shot it was even less spectacular. But yeah, Kirk goes out in the act of duty, that's thematically consistent at least.

Plus, watching old folks getting married... ew.


Anyone connect that Spielberg has now said he couldn't make Raiders or Last Crusade because of the Nazis, couldn't make the Color Purple because it should have been directed by an African-American (but it was OK to make Amistad?), and that he couldn't do Close Encouters the same way? What has he done in his career he doesn't regret?!I hadn't heard him say that stuff. I suppose he doesn't regret the huge amounts of money he made. ;)


I'm sure they'll do another Jones movie where it makes them like the Incredibles or something where the whole Jones family goes on an adventure. It could start out by showing the cliches of modern suburbia, maybe Indy even using his whip to steal some of Marion's tasty treats she russles up in the kitchen, or to fetch the paper off the lawn.Ugh, I shuddered when you said that because it does indeed reek of modern Lucas & Spielberg's thinking.



JT, I wasn't pimping Speed Racer at you. I figure you're not going to like it. I'm surprised you liked Iron Man (which I am trying to see, by the way), what with it being a movie and all. :pYou're mistaken, I already like Speed Racer, I just doubt I'll like that abomination the Wachowski's are pretending their movie is an homage of. :p I don't find your personal attack there very cute, it's worn thin. If you look at my list of movies I like, you'll see it's nearly all popcorn films, I like a lot of movies, it is not my fault a lot of movies these days are worthless. Let's look at 2007's top grossing movies:


Spider-Man 3 - poor
Shrek the Third - didn't like the first one, so didn't bother
Transformers - awful
Pirates of the Caribbean 3 - mixed, problematic, but ok
Harry Potter 5 - liked it a lot, way more than 3 and 4
I Am Legend - not my kind of thing, didn't bother
Bourne Ultimatum - didn't want to see it before I saw the others, not a big Matt Damon fan
National Treasure 2 - didn't want to see it in theaters, first was cute on TV but not something I'd go out of my way for
Alvin & the Chipmunks - hated the trailers and the concept, passed
Ratatouille - slipped through my fingers

Of those, you can only fault me for the last one.
And for 2006:


POTC2 - liked it, mixed though
Night at the Museum - did you really think I'd see this? So many things about it I wouldn't like, starting with the star
Cars - didn't like the concept, figured I'd catch it at home, still haven't
X-men 3 - crappy, disappointing, not surprising
Da Vinci Code - another one I figured I'd catch on TV, still haven't
300 - good, a little thin, but entertaining in the moment, though I wasn't comfortable with how folks were taking it as factual in any way
Superman Returns - terrible, highlights my point, it's not me, it's the movies
Happy Feet - looked cute, didn't bother
Ice Age 2 - another "wait for tv" and then haven't seen it still
Casino Royale - as a Bond fan, I was opposed to what they were doing here so I boycotted it, bought it on mega-sale on DVD (crappy DVD too), it's an ok film but generic for Bond in some ways, and drags on at the end which is very sloppy

Again, I think this list vindicates me.



Was Willie in the movie? It had been rumored that she would be.Thank god no, that's all we'd need, that screechy whiner back but now old.


So they showed pictures of Brody and Henry, Sr. and had Indy talking to them establishing they were dead? Were there pictures of anyone else? Sallah? Willie (they showed a picture of her in the set decoration photos)? Short Round? ELSA?!They had photos and established Marcus and dad died, it's part of the "aging" theme, they paid homage to Marcus in a statue as well in a gag. I don't think they had pics of anybody else, and why would Elsa be there? Indy needs a reminder he had a 1-night stand with a Nazi?


The camera flash bleached out the color; it actually is brown (more khaki, I suppose). Odd thing was apparently a student from my high school recognized me as "a teacher." Need to use the Indy line from this movie maybe ("You're a teacher?" "Part time." :thumbsup: ).Indy's pants are brown-brown though, just gonna have to admit it, and that rope ain't a whip. ;) Cool you got that teacher tie-in!


I'm just going to be the voice of naivete here, then. I have seen no films this calendar year prior to seeing IJ yesterday. I really dislike "real life" movies now, which just proves I'm getting old and crotchety. :rolleyes: Is it so wrong to suspend belief for a brief period in your life, sit back, and just watch a dang made-up movie now and then? That's what I took out of it. No need to look at the uber-specific nickpicking (and yeah, I've done that before, so I realize my own hypocracy, I suppose... but one can change, right?) and ruin the fun. Do I need to believe it's real? NO! Sure, have your own views; I don't deny someone their opinions. I just am going in with a spoiler-free childlike wonder, and I kept that throughout the film, after the credits rolled (I stay for credits, too... surprised?), and still have it now.

:stepsoffsoapbox: :yes:I generally dislike and avoid "real life" movies, the closest in my collection that comes to that is The Firm and similar, which ain't sayin' much. I don't like that claim though that just because a film is meant to be escapism that it automatically excuses it from any and all shortcomings. Raiders was a popcorn film, Jaws a popcorn film, Star Wars a popcorn film, Ghostbusters, The Matrix, Back to the Future, Goldfinger and all the James Bond flicks, Batman Begins, The Hunt for Red October, Spider-Man 1 & 2, X-men 1 & 2, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Good the Bad & the Ugly... I could go on and on (that's taken from my personal list), they're all much better films, why should poorer-quality films get a pardon? And I defy you to go through my review and find anything that is nitpicking! Every criticism I levied is a broad-reaching issue, I specifically saved the nitpicking for the discussion afterwards. And I stayed for the credits as I nearly always do, those people worked hard on the film and deserve to have their names seen, it's just too bad their leaders couldn't have led them to be a part of something better.

Droid
05-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Why would Indy have a picture of Elsa? She was a Nazi (She talksch in her schleep). They didn't need to shoehorn every possible character from the first three. But Sallah, Indy's best friend, really should have shown up at the end. The others I don't really need to know about. But it would have been fun to see a 35 year old Short Round reunited with Indy.

No, I agree. I was saying I thought it would be dumb if they had a picture of Elsa in his house.

Droid
05-23-2008, 07:56 PM
So how far does Indy ride on the outside of a sub? That is pretty over the top. How fast does a moving sub go? Don't they usually dive a bit so even their periscope is underwater?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-23-2008, 08:58 PM
Why would Indy have a picture of Elsa? She was a Nazi (She talksch in her schleep). They didn't need to shoehorn every possible character from the first three. But Sallah, Indy's best friend, really should have shown up at the end. The others I don't really need to know about. But it would have been fun to see a 35 year old Short Round reunited with Indy.

From what I understand, Rhys Davies wanted a ridiculous amount of $$ to return to the part and since Ford, Lucas, and Spielberg don't get paid until the film grosses over $400 million, it wasn't going to happen. i wouldn't have minded seeing him though.

JediTricks
05-24-2008, 01:28 AM
So how far does Indy ride on the outside of a sub? That is pretty over the top. How fast does a moving sub go? Don't they usually dive a bit so even their periscope is underwater?What, you think Indy rides halfway and then swims the rest of the way, then gets to the sub pen as it's docking, that's somehow MORE believable? He rides however long it takes, probably 8 hours since the island is in the Mediterranean. Subs only dive below periscope depth when they are going into full stealth, with no ships nearby there's no reason to dive deeper as it slows down the sub and it robs them of visibility and communications.

So by not showing it, even though that's what HAD to have happened (there's no chance Indy was able to open the sub's hatch and climb inside, much less do so and then climb back out before they got to the sub pen), the story can quickly suggest it and move beyond the implausibility of it.

Bel-Cam Jos
05-24-2008, 09:21 AM
I caught it again yesterday (no, I only saw it once on Friday, not twice... I first saw it opening Thursday, so that makes two, whatever, you know what I mean, know what I'm sayin'? :p ), and noted a few things.

SPOILERS PERHAPS



...




Okay. I am now sure that this will be the final IJ movie. Why? Two reasons: one, the wedding scene where Mutt attempts to pick up the windswept fedora, Indy takes it from him, gives him the sly look, as if to say, "I'm the only one who can do this [character] right." That's my stylistic reason. Two, one of the vehicles (the boat/jeep Marion drives over the waterfall) has a Greek letter (phi... I thought it was omega, which would've been perfect, as the "last" letter) and "4 57." Fourth IJ movie, set in 1957, and the number is easily legible when the characters are going over the third and FINAL drop. Huh, huh? Too obvious? :rolleyes:

Anyone notice that "Benny Burtt" was credited as the "Apprentice Sound Editor?" Son of the SW noise creator? And I assume that was Speilberg's daughter as the "Slugger," whom I think was the "that's my boyfriend" puncher in the maltshop?

I think they should've painted "Doctor Assistant Dean Professor "Indiana" Henry Jones, Jr." on his college door. :D And who was that painter? He looked familiar to me.

For the first time in a while, Indy went Chewbacca on us, never firing his own gun in the movie (technically, he never fired any gun, as the rifle he dropped went off due to just being dropped and he only cocked the hammer on his pistol at the burial site).

I still like it, moreso having seen it twice! :thumbsup:

Phantom-like Menace
05-24-2008, 10:09 AM
From what I understand, Rhys Davies wanted a ridiculous amount of $$ to return to the part and since Ford, Lucas, and Spielberg don't get paid until the film grosses over $400 million, it wasn't going to happen. i wouldn't have minded seeing him though.

Wow, Chupacabra: Dark Seas (a Sci-Fi channel original!) must have convinced him he was in demand . . . somehow.

jjreason
05-24-2008, 11:35 AM
Saw it last night, and I'm of 2 minds. Just seeing the older Ford as Indiana Jones, all things else aside, was ALMOST enough to make me give this the big thumbs up. He was great - and bloody hilarious to boot.

My reservations with modern movies are almost always the same: they're just TOO big, too adventurous. James Bond is the best example - they got SO implausible with the stunts that it became ridiculous. Thankfully they took those criticisms and worked backwards on the most recent Bond movie, which was pretty good.

I felt that way about this Indy - particularly the waterfalls for some reason. I realize this series has always stretched it, but I don't think it was ever quite so far as Indy IV.

The new information about Indy's character (him being in the war as a double OSS agent, highly decorated) all seemed a bit too much to me as well - it was more exciting to have him special just because of his love for his work & personal drive to succeed than a bunch of special military training making him the awesome field operator he is. Just my thoughts.

I'm really split on the addition of aliens into the Indy universe. Space is obviously a passion for both Spielberg & GLu, so I'm not surprised they went there..... but I'm still not decided upon whether or not that aspect of the story "worked for me" just yet. I'm leading towards no as I type.

I'm going to give this movie a break, and watch it again when it comes out for home viewing. I'm hoping that, like the first Spider-Man, I'll see it differently and really enjoy it the second go round. There was a LOT of good stuff in there, but for me it was mainly Indy himself.

bigbarada
05-24-2008, 12:22 PM
Wow, Chupacabra: Dark Seas (a Sci-Fi channel original!) must have convinced him he was in demand . . . somehow.

Well, he was Gimli and the voice of Treebeard in the LOTR movies, which grossed $2.9 billion worldwide. So maybe he is a big deal.

However, unless someone can provide a reliable source for the claim that Rhys-Davies demanded too much money, then I'm not sure if I believe it.

Droid
05-24-2008, 02:19 PM
Would Indy want to be a dean? He barely wants to do his office hours as a professor.

Marcus worked for the college? There was a statue of him on campus? I thought he was the curator of a museum.

Ji'dai
05-24-2008, 05:42 PM
The new information about Indy's character (him being in the war as a double OSS agent, highly decorated) all seemed a bit too much to me as well - it was more exciting to have him special just because of his love for his work & personal drive to succeed than a bunch of special military training making him the awesome field operator he is. Just my thoughts. I didn't have a problem with Indy's activities during the war. I think it's the other way around though, his extensive field experience prior to WWII made him the perfect candidate for secret agent stuff. He was probably in better shape and more seasoned than any volunteers the gov't might've recruited, even from the military services.


I'm really split on the addition of aliens into the Indy universe. Space is obviously a passion for both Spielberg & GLu, so I'm not surprised they went there..... but I'm still not decided upon whether or not that aspect of the story "worked for me" just yet. I'm leading towards no as I type. Yeah, I'm not too crazy about the alien stuff. I was into it for awhile there when the X-Files and alien abduction movies were popular during the '90s. I grew tired of these types of stories though and I stopped watching X-Files after the movie hit theaters. I still like the mixing of sci-fi and archaeology to some extent; I loved the Stargate movie and The Fifth Element.


Would Indy want to be a dean? He barely wants to do his office hours as a professor.

Marcus worked for the college? There was a statue of him on campus? I thought he was the curator of a museum. I think Indy's adventurer days are coming to a close and he's more at home in the classroom than in the field.

A lot has happened since we last saw these men in 1938. The museum may be part of the college so to transfer back and forth wouldn't be a problem. I'm sure Marcus had a doctorate and would've been more than qualified to teach or be dean.

Droid
05-24-2008, 07:47 PM
What, you think Indy rides halfway and then swims the rest of the way, then gets to the sub pen as it's docking, that's somehow MORE believable?

I wanted to know what distance was traveled and at what speed.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-24-2008, 09:08 PM
Finally saw this today, so now I can view this thread again.



I tell you this though, it's always been a part of Lucas' nature to throw totally unbelievable elements into these films. I remember seeing Raiders at a test screening long before it was released, and there was this scene in the film where they show Indy riding the submarine's periscope through the ocean, on his way to the island at the end. On the comment cards that we were given after the showing, my friends and I all noted how incredibly stupid that one element was. Later when we saw that it had been cut, we were pretty happy... and surprised.At what point did they remove this from the movie, because I could have sworn I saw this at some point. I'm pretty sure I didn't see an early screening. I think it had been out for a while and I didn't really know anything about it. I thought the ark being referenced was Noah's Ark and that it might be a documentary. Then one day my sister offers to take me and my friend to see it. He'd already seen it and wanted to see it again and said I'd really like it. I don't know if that was when I saw the periscope scene or not though.



I'm just going to be the voice of naivete here, then. I have seen no films this calendar year prior to seeing IJ yesterday. I really dislike "real life" movies now, which just proves I'm getting old and crotchety. :rolleyes: Is it so wrong to suspend belief for a brief period in your life, sit back, and just watch a dang made-up movie now and then? That's what I took out of it. No need to look at the uber-specific nickpicking (and yeah, I've done that before, so I realize my own hypocracy, I suppose... but one can change, right?) and ruin the fun. Do I need to believe it's real? NO! Sure, have your own views; I don't deny someone their opinions. I just am going in with a spoiler-free childlike wonder, and I kept that throughout the film, after the credits rolled (I stay for credits, too... surprised?), and still have it now.

:stepsoffsoapbox: :yes:I think we are on the same page here BCJ. I can agree that it wasn't as good as Raiders or Last Crusade, but I think I like it a lot more than Temple of Doom. I don't think I got the sense of awe that I was talking about earlier, but it was still a fun action packed film that I enjoyed. Most of the points Droid numerated earlier were things I don't have a problem with, even the Tarzan swing. Sure it was a little silly but it wasn't something that I hated.

Oh, and I always stay to the end of the credits too, thus...



Anyone notice that "Benny Burtt" was credited as the "Apprentice Sound Editor?" Son of the SW noise creator? And I assume that was Speilberg's daughter as the "Slugger," whom I think was the "that's my boyfriend" puncher in the maltshop?Yes, I noticed the Benny Burtt thing. While stay through the credits, I don't usually catch much because they don't really have much meaning to me, but I did happen to see that one. I saw a Lucas in there somewhere too, but it probably wasn't a relation.

mark2d2
05-24-2008, 11:00 PM
Except for having Nazis and Hitler the other movies just took place in the 30's and 40's. There was no popular music played.

Egads, this thread is far too negative to even begin to address it all, but this here is an outright falsehood. Um, remember the ANYTHING GOES opening of Temple of Doom? Big, huge, eyepopping song and dance number? Uh, ANYTHING GOES was a huge. huge hit back in the day and definitely a nod to popular music.

Tycho
05-25-2008, 12:05 AM
I have to say it: I was underwhelmed by this movie.

In parts the film makers probably thought were exciting, I may have been actually bored.

I'm going to reflect on it some more and post again, but right now, I'm glad I saw it - and it's a great way to kill some time for a couple of hours. But I wonder if I'll totally forget about this in just a short while.

figrin bran
05-25-2008, 12:26 AM
I have to say it: I was underwhelmed by this movie.

In parts the film makers probably thought were exciting, I may have been actually bored.

I'm going to reflect on it some more and post again, but right now, I'm glad I saw it - and it's a great way to kill some time for a couple of hours. But I wonder if I'll totally forget about this in just a short while.

Now you know how many of us felt about Transformers :p

plasticfetish
05-25-2008, 03:50 AM
At what point did they remove this from the movie, because I could have sworn I saw this at some point.To the best of my knowledge, that scene never made the final cut. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen it since then, which is why I was hoping that they had added some decent bonus material to the DVDs. I'm pretty sure there were other things that they cut, but that's the only one I can remember vividly.


I wanted to know what distance was traveled and at what speed.I'm willing to bet that if it was more than a half mile, he'd probably have drowned in real life. ;) If I remember correctly, they cut from the map, to a close-up of Indy hugging the periscope, while ocean water fanned out around him, back to the map. I vaguely remember it getting a big laugh out of the crowd, which is not exactly the reaction they were going for I'd guess.

-----

I haven't given Acrylic... I mean... Crystal Skull too much thought in the last few days, but as it turns out, I may see it again on Tuesday or Wednesday. After another viewing, I'll make up my mind about whether I'd call it a winner or a loser. I do know that it has enough strong visual elements to keep me entertained one more time, but it's the overall story that I'm not so sure about.

jjreason
05-25-2008, 10:04 AM
I haven't given Acrylic... I mean... Crystal Skull too much thought in the last few days..... I do know that it has enough strong visual elements to keep me entertained one more time, but it's the overall story that I'm not so sure about.

Man, that's what I was trying to say. Thanks, PF. :thumbsup:

I really thought the Acrylic skull itself looked awful. lol

Tycho
05-25-2008, 10:19 AM
Today, I think at some point perhaps this week or next, I may see this film one more time.

It will sort of be like returning to the seen of a train wreck to assess whether it really was as bad as I remembered it being (though the movie wasn't actually bad - it just wasn't that great either - and it was supposed to be).

But I'm going to endeavor to see Iron Man first because I've heard from so many people that it is so good and I need to see a good movie.

Beast
05-25-2008, 12:12 PM
Today, I think at some point perhaps this week or next, I may see this film one more time.

It will sort of be like returning to the seen of a train wreck to assess whether it really was as bad as I remembered it being (though the movie wasn't actually bad - it just wasn't that great either - and it was supposed to be).

But I'm going to endeavor to see Iron Man first because I've heard from so many people that it is so good and I need to see a good movie.
It's good to know that you're consistant.

You liked Transformers, which was mediocre at best.
And you disliked Indiana Jones, which was awesome as hell.

JEDIpartner
05-25-2008, 12:26 PM
I'm supposed to be seeing this with my geek friend, Debbie, tomorrow morning. We'll see if my opinion changes at all.

2-1B
05-25-2008, 01:14 PM
Temple would be my least favorite although I love all three.

Not all 4 though...right ? ;)


You are quite a pair of Flornbis :rolleyes: ...aliens are more realistic that that supernatural religious mumbo jumbo, I'll take aliens any day.

Besides, I bet Roswell is a red herring...I predict there won't be aliens in this film.
Even though there should be. :thumbsup:

Okay, so I was wrong about there not really being Aliens in the movie. Or interdimensional beings, at least.


I'll be looking forward to...Iron Man this year.

Really? :eek: You ARE ? :eek:



I didn't watch John Rambo, but I did NOT like Rocky Balboa at all.

Rocky 6 was the second best of the series and Rambo 4 was damned good. :)


Oh, yeah... those last couple Rocky movies were all so brilliant. :rolleyes: Did no one care about the Rambo movie? It seemed to come and go rather quickly. Wait did it even come out? I wasn't paying attention.

I saw it in the theater and loved it but since you missed it JP, I'll let you know that the DVD comes out this Tues May 27th. :)


I haven't seen either of the latter-day Stallone movies, but thought I'd give Caesar a birthday present by praising them anyway.

HAPPYBIRTHDAYPAULIE!!! :thedeuce:

Certainly appreciated, thanks! :mightygrinofkitfisto:


I take it Red Dawn and Wargames aren't popular over there, either.

Neither are Rocky 4 or Invasion USA (starring Chuck Norris). ;)

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about Indy. I liked it, didn't love it, but then again I don't get too hyped up for the other 3 either. All 4 are good, not great, and all different levels of good. I'd say I like this Skull picture better than Crusade but I don't know if I like it more than Ark and Doom. Probably not.

I didn't mind the aliens storyline but I thought the portals and dimensions thing was kinda dumb. I thought the Monkey Swinging Mutt was goofy and when those Prairie Dogs were on screen (more than once), I thought I was watching Phantom Menace.

Why was Howdy Doody playing on the TV in a fake town ?

People in our theater applauded at the end during the wedding.

Okay.

jjreason
05-25-2008, 01:43 PM
They may have just been happy it was over.


Sorry.... I know it wasn't that bad. :p

Blue2th
05-25-2008, 04:57 PM
I saw this today. I did find myself enjoying all the cool vehicles in this movie, I mean near the beginning was practically American Graffiti. Plus all the real Duece and a halfs, Shoebox Ford army sedan etc. Jr.'s Harley, rocket sled, the Russian Jeep and Amphibious vehicles ( a little over the top with the Amphibian in the river) Jungle Cutter (I think they should have had a fight on it, rather than just putting it out of action)

I enjoyed it and might go see it again. I still have yet to see Iron man so I'm gonna go see that first too.

Droid
05-25-2008, 08:55 PM
Egads, this thread is far too negative to even begin to address it all, but this here is an outright falsehood. Um, remember the ANYTHING GOES opening of Temple of Doom? Big, huge, eyepopping song and dance number? Uh, ANYTHING GOES was a huge. huge hit back in the day and definitely a nod to popular music.

If you read my posts you'll see that I admitted Anything Goes was the exception to the rule, but stated that at least established that Willie was a singer and that they were in China.

Funny so many remember Indy on the periscope in Raiders. Maybe there were pictures of him on the periscope on a Topps card on in the storybook. Maybe they showed part of it in the Making of TV special. Kind of like how everyone remembers the cut Biggs scenes being in A New Hope.

My sister saw this movie today and hated it. She told me to never see it. And she loved Raiders and Last Crusade. I feel pretty validated in not seeing this. Tycho didn't like it for heaven's sake! I would like to know what stillakid thought.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-25-2008, 09:19 PM
I would like to know what stillakid thought.

lol I'll give you a hint: he hated it. And THE CLONE WARS that's due out in August, he'll hate that too. And I could seriously go on for hours with this one.... :thumbsup:

Beast
05-25-2008, 09:46 PM
Tycho didn't like it for heaven's sake!
Have you seen his tastes?

Him hating it just proves that it's one of the best movies of all time.

Tycho
05-25-2008, 10:31 PM
I didn't hate it. I never posted that.

I'm even likely to give it a 2nd chance. But right now, I'm just not thrilled by it.

I saw Iron Man today and it was so much more enjoyable and engaging.

The thing that was terrible about Indy 4 was that I was actually checking my cell phone for the time to see when the movie would be over. I wasn't held captivated by it as I should have been.

I'm going to post in the Iron Man thread, but the build-up and characters held me, though I almost walked out during the end (just to use the restroom) because I thought that would be predictable and it was (but I stayed and endured it anyway).

I'm more and more convinced by this that the story I conceived will NOT be so predictable and formulaic, and that is an asset.

I'll give Indy that: it was not predictable everywhere, but I'm not sure the story was that engaging.

1) Indy was kidnapped and used by the Russians to find an alien body in Area 51 because it had something to do with locating the Crystal Skull - not quite sure how that fit in.

2) Indy was fired from his job for consorting with Communists or something. The Red Scare was part of 1950's history.

3) Mutt Williams tracked Indy down to help him find his mother who'd gone missing, while assisting the other professor who was searching for the Crystal Skull.

4) The Russians tangle with Indy again as he tracks the Crystal Skull to help him find Marion and the professor.

5) Everyone finds out the Crystal Skull belongs the E.T. and the aliens get it back and live happily ever after in another dimension.

6) Indy marries Marion and starts to act like a father to Mutt Williams.

Did I basically get it?

Alright: now that I sorted that out, processed it a bit, I can watch this one more time and see if they "executed it well or not." It does not top the list of plots I'd think I'd have considered for an Indy movie necessarily, but I never said I hated it.

Ji'dai
05-25-2008, 11:02 PM
Funny so many remember Indy on the periscope in Raiders. Maybe there were pictures of him on the periscope on a Topps card on in the storybook. Maybe they showed part of it in the Making of TV special. Kind of like how everyone remembers the cut Biggs scenes being in A New Hope. In the Marvel comic adapation of RotLA (Marvel Super Special No. 18: 1981), there's a two-page spread showing Indy lashing himself to the periscope with his whip and riding the sub to the secret island base. I remember seeing that and wondering, "was that how it was in the movie?!"

When I watch the movie now, I just imagine Indy getting inside the sub or into some airtight compartment.

I posted scans of the comic pages if anyone is interested:

Page 1 (http://i25.tinypic.com/2jc6800.jpg)
Page 2 (http://i31.tinypic.com/whxk7n.jpg)

(Artwork by John Buscema and Klaus Janson; story adapted by Walt Simonson).

Now what I want to know is how Indy gets his satchel strap caught on the side gun turret of that tank in Last Crusade and then is able to free himself by just rising straight up.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-26-2008, 12:12 AM
In the Marvel comic adapation of RotLA (Marvel Super Special No. 18: 1981), there's a two-page spread showing Indy lashing himself to the periscope with his whip and riding the sub to the secret island base. I remember seeing that and wondering, "was that how it was in the movie?!"

When I watch the movie now, I just imagine Indy getting inside the sub or into some airtight compartment.

I posted scans of the comic pages if anyone is interested:

Page 1 (http://i25.tinypic.com/2jc6800.jpg)
Page 2 (http://i31.tinypic.com/whxk7n.jpg)

(Artwork by John Buscema and Klaus Janson; story adapted by Walt Simonson).

Now what I want to know is how Indy gets his satchel strap caught on the side gun turret of that tank in Last Crusade and then is able to free himself by just rising straight up.I had the comic adaptation of it, so that might be what I'm remembering, but I was certain that I saw it on film at least once.

Bel-Cam Jos
05-26-2008, 09:46 AM
How do I like theee, Indy4? Let me list (LIST... :drool: ) the ways:

TOP TEN REASONS WHY I LIKED IJatKotCS:
10.Marcus's painting in the college
9. Map travel lines (a.k.a. geography, kids :rolleyes: )
8. Cate Blanchett [sp?] crushing ants :lipsrsealed:
7. "You're a... teacher?" "Part time." :thumbsup:
6. Indy's whip swing coming up a bit short
5. The chases (the college and local streets, jungle trucks)
4. Brief glimpse of the Ark
3. Using a refrigerator to escape an H-bomb blast
2. Using a snake as a rope :sss:
1. Those "heavy" punches and gunfire sound effects

Beast
05-26-2008, 10:23 AM
How do I like theee, Indy4? Let me list (LIST... :drool: ) the ways:

TOP TEN REASONS WHY I LIKED IJatKotCS:
10.Marcus's painting in the college
9. Map travel lines (a.k.a. geography, kids :rolleyes: )
8. Cate Blanchett [sp?] crushing ants :lipsrsealed:
7. "You're a... teacher?" "Part time." :thumbsup:
6. Indy's whip swing coming up a bit short
5. The chases (the college and local streets, jungle trucks)
4. Brief glimpse of the Ark
3. Using a refrigerator to escape an H-bomb blast
2. Using a snake as a rope :sss:
1. Those "heavy" punches and gunfire sound effects
Word. I'm tempted to see it again next week.

jjreason
05-26-2008, 11:48 AM
I didn't mention this before, but I LOVED the sound work in this movie. The punches were hilariously "heavy"!!!! I too liked seeing the ark & Indy's commentary pretty much through the whole thing.... but the over the top parts (like the fridge) were just too far over the top for me in this instance.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-26-2008, 11:49 AM
How do I like theee, Indy4? Let me list (LIST... :drool: ) the ways:

TOP TEN REASONS WHY I LIKED IJatKotCS:
10.Marcus's painting in the college
9. Map travel lines (a.k.a. geography, kids :rolleyes: )
8. Cate Blanchett [sp?] crushing ants :lipsrsealed:
7. "You're a... teacher?" "Part time." :thumbsup:
6. Indy's whip swing coming up a bit short
5. The chases (the college and local streets, jungle trucks)
4. Brief glimpse of the Ark
3. Using a refrigerator to escape an H-bomb blast
2. Using a snake as a rope :sss:
1. Those "heavy" punches and gunfire sound effects
Some of those things are reasons why others don't like it. I don't see why getting a glimpse of the ark is a problem. It was mentioned before that it should have been left alone because we didn't know what happened to it. I disagree. We did know what happened to it. It got stuck in a warehouse. There was some mystery as to whether it was just left to sit there or if "top men" were actually going to study it. Over twenty years after the events of Raiders and it is still in a box in a warehouse. Nothing has really changed. As was mentioned before, the government probably came in and sealed it up again.

2-1B
05-26-2008, 02:15 PM
They may have just been happy it was over.


Sorry.... I know it wasn't that bad. :p

They just couldn't wait to get home to watch Take Care, Sir again. :thumbsup:

OC47150
05-26-2008, 05:22 PM
I have to say the film did a nice job in remembering Papa Jones and Brody.

I'd really like to hear more about Indy's time with the OSS during World War II.

I want to see it again.

Snowtrooper
05-26-2008, 05:54 PM
I got to see the movie yesterday. I thought it was good for the most part. Its not on the level of Raiders, but its as good as the other sequels were.

It had alot of good things about it. I liked the interaction between Indy and Mutt, especially when they were in the cemetery. There seemed to be good chemistry between the two and I wish they had done a little more with this. Cate Blanchette and the guy who played Col. Dovchenko made for decent bad guys. It was nice to have Marion in the movie again. I think she actually did more in this movie than she did in Raiders, where it seemed like she was getting captured all the time. The sequence with the ants was pretty cool too.

I was never into the whole x-files, area 51, gov conspiracy shows of the 90's. So this didn't make KOTCS seem like a rehash of those shows like some of you have mentioned. It did take me a little getting used to Indy being in the 50's and the bit of a cold war feel to the movie.

Some of the parts were laughable but still fun to watch. The whole Indy in the frige scene, using gunpowder to locate the magnetic crate(to my knowledge gunpowder is not magnetic), surviving three waterfalls, etc...

What I didn't like was the jungle chase scene, and not for Mutt swinging from the vines with monkeys. Having people fencing from two moving vehicles going over rough jungle terrain just struck me as pretty absurd. You'd be lucky to be able to stay in your seat the way they were driving. I also didn't care much for Indy's turncoat buddy. Why would you trust the guy after he sells you out?

I recommend the movie. I'm probably going to see it again with my family.

mark2d2
05-26-2008, 10:47 PM
Mac was my big problem with the movie. His character was pointless in a already crowded script. He just wasn't necessary and the way Indy "bought" the CIA story made Dr. Jones look dumb for the first very time. Ever. Cutting Mac would've made the whole story flow better. Irina could have simply tracked them employing her alleged psychic abilities--which were woefully underused by the way. She simply could've been "following" the skull. . . "It zpeaks to me, it vrought me to you..." Or instead she could've have had a tracking device planted on the hapless Ox.

That said, I actually enjoyed the flick.

I thought the doom town/nuclear bomb sequence was hilarious. And brilliant. Besides, his hiding in the fridge and surviving as utterly improbable as it sounds today would have seemed very plausible in the 1950s. Seriously. My mom and dad both joke about how they were taught (in separate states) to simply hide under their school desks in the event of a nuclear attack.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-26-2008, 11:09 PM
I saw this tonight and really enjoyed it. I thought it was at least on par with the others (which, for the record, I have only seen twice each, and the first time was about two years ago, so I like them a lot but do not love them as much as others here seem to).

I really loved the entire jungle sequence, and the ants were creepy as all hell. Usually I don't get bugged out (ZING!) by that sort of thing but it was pretty freaky. Irina trying to shove Indiana off the cliff made me antsy (again, no pun intended).


The fact that they beat you over the head with the 1950's between a Elvis song, Mutt's Brando impression, a malt shop, a fight between jocks and slicks, the atom bomb, and Indy getting a Red Scare firing. The Indy movies took place in the '30's and '40's, but it was not a Forrest Gump style Indy encounters every cliche or element of those time periods. That was the worst part of the Indy TV show, other than 90 year old Indy. There were no modern songs played in the other Indy movies (maybe Anything Goes, but that was a part of the plot shown to establish Willie as a singer and to show they were in China).
There was also the Mickey Mouse reference in Last Crusade and something else I don't recall right now. It did indeed seem like they were trying to fit in A LOT of '50s references in there, but it worked for me.


We weren't supposed to know where the Ark was. It cheapens Raiders at the expense of a joke, "Look, the Ark!"
I didn't even really think that was a joke, so much as telling you where the action was taking place. At the beginning of that scene, I didn't like the obviously CG boxes, they looked too fake.


That MIGHT help you survive the radiation. It would not help you survive the blast or your fridge being thrown several miles.
It was a good distance but it wasn't several miles I don't think. I loved the intense creepiness of the test-house scene, though.


Exactly, which is why there shouldn't be a Close Encounters alien or a Star Wars piece of dialogue.
What about a plane with the designation OB-CPO or a club named Obi Wan? Oh, wait . . . ;)


What did and does really suck about this film though, and I suppose it’s my one and only real complaint, is that this film lacks that big corny “lesson” at the end, that we got with the other films. Raiders had the whole “hubris” thing, Temple of Doom was about “greed” (I suppose... I’ve never watched that film too closely, as it seems to take place entirely underground, and it bores me to death), and then Last Crusade was all about loyalty and family. Crystal Skull seems to hint at a lot of things, but fails to deliver on any of them in a significant way.
There was the whole "knowledge is the REAL treasure" thing at the end, though it does kind of jive with Irina's death. But I suppose they're trying to differentiate knowledge used for good and knowledge used for evil? The whole "knowledge is power" was also harped on in the show. I really liked the reference to the show, though, and Mutt's reaction to it. :D

There are a few other things I will "nitpick" and/or bring up, even though on the whole I really like this movie.

I did not care for the CG prairie dogs at all. There were two scenes where they could have just as easily used real ones, and one scene (the family/group of them) that bugged me since it was so fake. The monkeys or "big damn ants" didn't bother me, though.

I thought the Marcus Brody statue's head falling off was just kind of disrespectful. I can see it like them saying, "look, Marcus is back for this adventure in spirit," but since the actor is dead in real life it came off a little weird. And after his portrait and photo, it seemed like too many references to him.

As for Mutt on the vines, from that I got the impression that he was sort of a younger version of Indiana at that part, but instead of a whip he was swinging from vines.

I also felt that they didn't spend enough "personal time" with the characters like they did in the others, getting to know them better, or whatever. The beginning of the movie was also odd . . . I can't tell if they should have made that part longer or shorter, but the pacing seemed off.

At any rate, as I said, I really enjoyed it overall.

Beast
05-26-2008, 11:46 PM
What about a plane with the designation OB-CPO or a club named Obi Wan? Oh, wait . . . ;)
Or the fact that R2-D2 and C-3PO are shown in hieroglyphics. ;)

I also felt that they didn't spend enough "personal time" with the characters like they did in the others, getting to know them better, or whatever.
Actually, something I've read a few other places and happen to agree with, is this is the first movie where we actually get some decent insight into Indiana Jones as a person. There's plenty of downtime moments interspaced during the movie where you explore the character instead of him simply being "On" all the time. He's a pretty hollow character if you look at the three previous films.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-26-2008, 11:52 PM
(again, no pun intended).Why not?



It was a good distance but it wasn't several miles I don't think.I didn't think it was that far either. The one thing I was wondering about in that scene wasn't whether he would survive the radiation or being hurled that far. It was, "How did the door stay shut?" It just came to my mind now that he could have held it shut, but that would be pretty hard.


There was the whole "knowledge is the REAL treasure" thing at the end, though it does kind of jive with Irina's death. But I suppose they're trying to differentiate knowledge used for good and knowledge used for evil? The whole "knowledge is power" was also harped on in the show. I really liked the reference to the show, though, and Mutt's reaction to it. :DI agree with this. While knowledge is power, I think there are distinctions in the way that was interpreted. Irina saw that more in a selfish way.


I also felt that they didn't spend enough "personal time" with the characters like they did in the others, getting to know them better, or whatever. The beginning of the movie was also odd . . . I can't tell if they should have made that part longer or shorter, but the pacing seemed off.Yes, it did seem a bit of a departure. We were kind of thrust right into the story right off the bat. I don't recall Temple of Doom well enough, but with the other two, the initial sequence had little to do with the main adventure other than to introduce some points that would be revisited later. In Raiders, we learn of Indy's fear of snakes, and we learn of his rivalry with Belloq. In Last Crusade, we get some backstory on Indy and get a glimpse of his father. In this film, the opening sequence is pretty much part of the main adventure that continues throughout the movie. I also agree that the characters didn't get much development. The main Russian bad guy seemed pretty generic and didn't say much. Irina didn't have much in the way of memorable lines, and seemed to be more of a caricature. One review I read compared her to Natasha from the Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons.

I would say my main complaint would be that it seemed like the movie was one big chase scene. The chase through the jungle sort of combined the Raiders truck chase with the Last Crusade tank chase and add in the water from Temple of Doom. I might concur with what was said earlier about it seeming like a video game. Not necessarily a bad thing though. I wish the second Tomb Raider movie had been more like this.

JediTricks
05-27-2008, 06:02 AM
Anybody else here annoyed at the use of the LED countdown clock for the rocket sled scene? That looked WAAAAAY too modern for that scene.


I didn't have a problem with Indy's activities during the war. I think it's the other way around though, his extensive field experience prior to WWII made him the perfect candidate for secret agent stuff. He was probably in better shape and more seasoned than any volunteers the gov't might've recruited, even from the military services.I'm with JJ on this, it didn't work for me. I think part of the thing is, that while Indy is a patriot, his first loyalty is to his graverobbing... I mean "archeology" which requires being a competent world-wary diplomat AND a mercenary. He's like Rick from Casablanca, he's rooting for the US but he has to pretend he's not so he can continue to get work done, work that isn't always best serving his native home. Indy's skills are about who Indy is, it's not like the Army is the one coming to him in LC when all that stuff is going down, even though they had worked with him in the past (and might I point out, he got burned by them and was less than thrilled to work with them at the end of Raiders).



I wanted to know what distance was traveled and at what speed.Good luck with that.



Egads, this thread is far too negative to even begin to address it all, but this here is an outright falsehood. Um, remember the ANYTHING GOES opening of Temple of Doom? Big, huge, eyepopping song and dance number? Uh, ANYTHING GOES was a huge. huge hit back in the day and definitely a nod to popular music.We already covered that, and I pointed out that LC has "Sweet Little Headache" as well.



To the best of my knowledge, that scene never made the final cut. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen it since then, which is why I was hoping that they had added some decent bonus material to the DVDs. I'm pretty sure there were other things that they cut, but that's the only one I can remember vividly.I actually remember Indy holding onto the periscope as well, I think either it was in a re-release or on TV or something.



I really thought the Acrylic skull itself looked awful. lolDitto that! For a fanciful macguffin, that prop looked pretty crummy, especially the crackled interior.



Have you seen his tastes?

Him hating it just proves that it's one of the best movies of all time....said the man who used to carry the screen name of Jar Jar Binks. :p Like we can trust THAT judgement. :D



Now what I want to know is how Indy gets his satchel strap caught on the side gun turret of that tank in Last Crusade and then is able to free himself by just rising straight up.Technically, there's no way he could have gotten his strap caught in the first place, that was a major cheat. So to get out of it, cheat again! ;) (I believe he actually undoes the belt very quickly, but I could be wrong.)



How do I like theee, Indy4? Let me list (LIST... :drool: ) the ways:

TOP TEN REASONS WHY I LIKED IJatKotCS:
10.Marcus's painting in the college
9. Map travel lines (a.k.a. geography, kids :rolleyes: )
8. Cate Blanchett [sp?] crushing ants :lipsrsealed:
7. "You're a... teacher?" "Part time." :thumbsup:
6. Indy's whip swing coming up a bit short
5. The chases (the college and local streets, jungle trucks)
4. Brief glimpse of the Ark
3. Using a refrigerator to escape an H-bomb blast
2. Using a snake as a rope :sss:
1. Those "heavy" punches and gunfire sound effectsNumbers 8, 4, 2, half of 5, and especially 3 are parts of why I didn't like it.



Some of those things are reasons why others don't like it. I don't see why getting a glimpse of the ark is a problem. It was mentioned before that it should have been left alone because we didn't know what happened to it. I disagree. We did know what happened to it. It got stuck in a warehouse. There was some mystery as to whether it was just left to sit there or if "top men" were actually going to study it. Over twenty years after the events of Raiders and it is still in a box in a warehouse. Nothing has really changed. As was mentioned before, the government probably came in and sealed it up again.If you listen to what Marcus and others say about the Ark, it's not just that it was shoved in a warehouse, it's that once again the Ark has been swallowed up away from the hands of man, only this time it's the hubris and bureaucracy of the gov't. There were no "top men" to study it, that's why the nailed the box shut and put it in an endless, mysterious warehouse. Just as the Well of Souls was swallowed up by sand and covered for thousands of years, so again was the Ark supposed to be lost.



Having people fencing from two moving vehicles going over rough jungle terrain just struck me as pretty absurd. You'd be lucky to be able to stay in your seat the way they were driving. .Yeah, that part really seemed like a stretch to me. And the amount of shooting the Russians did at the heroes' cars in that scene as well, they're 15 feet away at most and 100% missing hundreds of machine gun shots, right after it was so steady they were able to do back-n-forth fencing?



I didn't think it was that far either. The one thing I was wondering about in that scene wasn't whether he would survive the radiation or being hurled that far. It was, "How did the door stay shut?" It just came to my mind now that he could have held it shut, but that would be pretty hard.Have you ever seen the footage of that explosion they're simulating? The little town blown away by the A-bomb? The house is OBLITERATED instantly, not one stick remains, chimney and all, it is blown off and vaporized. There's NO way that door could have been held in place, but there's also no way that door would have stayed on, the fridge would have split around the housing and shredded. You ever see the ep of Mythbusters where they put a bomb inside a fridge? It came apart horribly, they're not made to take that kind of abuse, much less kilotons' worth of it. And how did Indy avoid being cooked to death by the incredibly high temperatures? Lead would conduct that heat (and then melt), turning it into an oven that resulted in a very dead Indy. Of course, we're also supposed to believe it'd survive flying that far that fast without blowing up on impact, or that the jostling wouldn't have turned Indy's bones into powder.

I didn't like that part of the film at all, the idea of surviving the bomb was too freaky, and the goofy way they got him out of it asked a lot. Indy's frantic search and the over-the-top last minuteness of it, the Russians being horribly killed (oh yeah, like a fridge is going to survive when that car was annihilated) and it seemed like the wrong kind of cute. Maybe if Indy had referenced "should I duck and cover?" it might have at least lightened the mood, but instead he scrambled in horror to live.

Tycho
05-27-2008, 06:55 AM
Maybe you guys are taking the refridgerator scene too seriously.

The movie had its flaws, but I hardly ever think about that. It was done purely for a comedic moment in my point of view - just like when the Coyote chases the RoadRunner off the cliff, but is too stupid to know about gravity, so he first looks down before he falls.

I never thought Indiana Jones was supposed to be taken that literally serious. It combines parts like that with the utterly stupid from which the genre draws some of its humor. KOTCS didn't do this in the more subtle manner of the other Indy films, for which it worked better.

But even back in Raiders, do you think someone could have really survived that chase sequence where Indy takes control of the truck carrying the Ark? Like I said, it's done just a little bit more believably than the refridgerator scene. That's one reason why ROTLA is a better film than KOTCS.