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Droid
05-27-2008, 08:15 AM
With a few small examples such as the blow up raft out of the plane and the mine car perfectly jumping a hole in the tracks, the other Indiana Jones movies were composed of small moment to moment believability. Yes, taken as a whole it is hard to believe Indy could attack a truck full of Nazis and take over the truck, but as JediTricks said, it is more believable he could beat this Nazi he was fighting and use the truck to knock down those two Nazis. I believe Indy could go under the truck because a stuntman did. It all adds up to Indy taking over the truck.

There is nothing in the series like surviving an atomic blast. Nothing.

Oh, and since we're talking about pop culture references, in the original Indy trilogy, his dad says he should have mailed his diary to the Marx Brothers. Great line.

JEDIpartner
05-27-2008, 11:40 AM
Okay, I gave it another shot yesterday and I actually liked it better the second time. I'll tell you that I thought the bit with the monkeys was stupid and had no precedent in the series, so that stuck out. I also thought they should've kept the saucer craft a bit more vague and just had the temple crumble and, when they got to the top of that ruin on the peak, they should've just seen a huge flash, saw the debris suspended in mid air as it was and then finished the sequence without the appearance of the craft. Oh, there also shouldn't have been a combining of the alien skeletons making an actual being. If those things were taken out, I would've given it way high marks.

Tycho
05-27-2008, 11:42 AM
All good calls, JP.

JEDIpartner
05-27-2008, 12:35 PM
Thanks!

It would've been a better and more mystical ending if they'd just allowed the skeletons of the beings to transfer their knowledge to any being that was present and standing in the circle as opposed to combining to form a tangible being. The transfer of knowledge could've activated the "ship" (that, again, never reveals itself) and then, as the ship vacates that space in time, it causes a shockwave that sends the earth above it up in a flash... similar ending but more mysterious and and with a bit more power and more dignity.

I know these movies are supposed to be "far-fetched/escape-in-the-nick-of-time/completely impossible & implausible feat" tributes to the serials of the 30s and 40s (something that people are forgetting here and don't rank on me about that comment, but it's true) but the ending didn't ring as true as the endings of the previous three.

JediTricks
05-27-2008, 10:29 PM
Maybe you guys are taking the refridgerator scene too seriously.I discounted the nitpicky aspect in my review, but the tonal issue is one I couldn't shake which is why it's in my main review.

Now that we're getting into the nitpicky stuff, I figured I'd jump in with my take. I mean, I can understand Indy surviving a fall over a cliff while on a tank or being dragged by a truck, but a nuclear blast in a fridge was way overboard (moreso for me than the waterfalls scene, those were some big falls!). The falling raft was as close as too far as they had gotten until then, and even that had a hint of believability... that's the key, it doesn't have to be believable, just that there's a shred of plausibility, and I don't think the fridge-vs-nuke scene had that.

2-1B
05-27-2008, 10:53 PM
JT, did you understand why the fake family was watching Howdy Doody? Did it have something to do with the soldiers who set up the scenario or was that just to cram in another 50s reference for the audience? I don't understand why it was playing on the TV.

bigbarada
05-27-2008, 11:27 PM
The atomic bomb vs. refrigerator scene is actually the least of my gripes about this film. If it had been the only improbably scene in the movie, then I would have been able to accept it. Plenty of people survived the atomic blasts at Hiroshima and Nagasaki for various reasons, while people close by were vaporized. I think it was intended to be an atomic blast not a megaton nuclear blast (which is supposed to be much, much more powerful).

The improbable stuff that bugged me the most were:
1. Mutt swinging with the monkeys (everybody seems to be universally opposed to this one)
2. Fencing on trucks driving 30-40 miles per hour through a jungle.
3. The student in the library who was completely oblivious to the fact that his professor just appeared out from under the table on a motorcycle and started asking him questions like he had just run into him in a hallway. They really went out of their way for that lame joke and just dragged it on too long.
4. The unbelievably terrible shooting of the Russians. With as many bullets as they were sending in the direction of our heroes at times, they should have killed them all by dumb luck if nothing else.
5. The super magnetism of the alien body that was completely inconsistent. Mainly because, if it was that magnetic, then why weren't the guns on their shoulders affected? And if it was powerful enough to drag gunpowder across a warehouse, then why were they able to fire their rifles, while standing right next to it? Wouldn't they be magnetically frozen? Also, gunpowder is really not that magnetic from what I understand, so I guess the only reason Indy would ask for it would be to deplete their ammunition and increase his chances to escape. A good idea, but not really capitalized on in the movie.
6. The waterfall drops were just beyond believability, especially since some of the occupants of that vehicle looked like they wouldn't even survive a slip in the bathtub. If they were all twenty somethings, then I would have had no problem with overlooking this one, but not a truckload of geriatrics.

But just to show that I'm not all negative, I will give ten things that I did like about the film.

1. The American Graffiti race at the beginning, just awesome!:thumbsup:
2. Indy as a total fish out of water in the 50s suburban town (even though it was a fake town).
3. The atomic bomb test, Harrison did a great job of conveying a sense of panic and improvisation on Indy's part.
4. The ants. Slightly over the top, but still enjoyable enough for me.
5. Indy getting out of the fridge to watch the atomic bomb. Probability aside, it was a very cool and memorable scene.
6. Marion Ravenwood, I was really happy to see her back, even if time hasn't been kind to her figure.
7. The Paramount mountain turning into a prairie dog mound. A cute little nod to the opening of Raiders and a hint that this film isn't intended to be taken as seriously as the first Indy movie. Mountains vs. molehills? You see where I'm going with this?
8. The CG work in this film shows just how far special effects have come, even since Ep3.
9. The 50s references actually didn't bother me at all. I actually liked most of that motorcycle chase scene on the campus, except the part that I mentioned earlier, when Indy met his student in the library.
10. The wedding at the end. It was good to see Indy and Marion finally tie the knot. I always knew that Marion was the only woman for Indy and I'm glad they dropped the James Bond thing of having Indy get involved with a different girl each movie.

JediTricks
05-27-2008, 11:51 PM
So get this, apparently fridges in those days with latches couldn't be opened from the inside anyway! "Indiana Jones and the Slow Suffocation Instead of Nuclear Annihilation"


JT, did you understand why the fake family was watching Howdy Doody? Did it have something to do with the soldiers who set up the scenario or was that just to cram in another 50s reference for the audience? I don't understand why it was playing on the TV.First off, there'd be too much distance to get that signal, most likely, I hadn't thought about that before but TV broadcasts weren't especially powerful back in the day, so a sequestered part of the desert wouldn't likely get that signal (though as I understand it, that is the right part of the day for it).

I think it was just another '50s reference, that whole scene felt very last-minute and not well thought-out. Why wasn't the water working in the kitchen sink but it was on the lawn? Why paint the houses? Why put up mannequins instead of better human analogs, and why have human analogs at all when they knew they'd be wiped out that close to the blast?



5. The super magnetism of the alien body that was completely inconsistent. Mainly because, if it was that magnetic, then why weren't the guns on their shoulders affected? And if it was powerful enough to drag gunpowder across a warehouse, then why were they able to fire their rifles, while standing right next to it? Wouldn't they be magnetically frozen? Also, gunpowder is really not that magnetic from what I understand, so I guess the only reason Indy would ask for it would be to deplete their ammunition and increase his chances to escape. A good idea, but not really capitalized on in the movie.Gunpowder has nothing magnetic in it but potassium, and not much of that, as I understand it. The shotgun pellets were just as bad, as they're lead.


9. The 50s references actually didn't bother me at all. I actually liked most of that motorcycle chase scene on the campus, except the part that I mentioned earlier, when Indy met his student in the library.Dare I point out that motorcycle had modern features not found in the '50s, like a disk brake? ;)

Mad Slanted Powers
05-28-2008, 12:04 AM
3. The student in the library who was completely oblivious to the fact that his professor just appeared out from under the table on a motorcycle and started asking him questions like he had just run into him in a hallway. They really went out of their way for that lame joke and just dragged it on too long.As we saw in Last Crusade, there was a lot of demand for his office hours, so best ask a question when you have a chance.


4. The unbelievably terrible shooting of the Russians. With as many bullets as they were sending in the direction of our heroes at times, they should have killed them all by dumb luck if nothing else.Pretty bad shooting, but when Irina was in the same vehicles as or fighting the heroes, they would have to be a bit more careful so as not to hit her.


5. The super magnetism of the alien body that was completely inconsistent.Yeah, I didn't know how (un)magnetic gun powder was, but the magnetism did seem inconsistent.


6. The waterfall drops were just beyond believability, especially since some of the occupants of that vehicle looked like they wouldn't even survive a slip in the bathtub. If they were all twenty somethings, then I would have had no problem with overlooking this one, but not a truckload of geriatrics.I think only the last drop was the unbelievable one. The other two weren't so bad. Not that I would want to test that idea myself though.



So get this, apparently fridges in those days with latches couldn't be opened from the inside anyway! "Indiana Jones and the Slow Suffocation Instead of Nuclear Annihilation"That's what I was kind of thinking as well when I brought up the door staying closed. If the door was able to stay on, it would be because he was locked in. I suppose the nuclear blast damaged the lock enough so he could get out.

bigbarada
05-28-2008, 12:04 AM
Dare I point out that motorcycle had modern features not found in the '50s, like a disk brake? ;)

Dangit! Do you have any idea how tough it was for me to think up 10 things that I actually liked about this movie? After #5 I was really racking my brain to come up with nice things to say.:o

plasticfetish
05-28-2008, 12:05 AM
I saw the film with the family again this afternoon, and in some ways the second viewing reinforced my original opinion, and in other ways I think I’ve lightened up.

It was nice being able to watch and focus in on the details a bit this time--to be able to look around at the backgrounds and the sets. On the whole it’s a great looking film, with fantastic sets and brilliant wardrobe. I’ve a pretty good knowledge of that era’s clothing (I've bought, worn and sold that stuff for nearly 20 years), and they did a nice job of hunting down just the right clothes for every character and situation.

I know that some of you have taken shots at some things like the malt shop fight, and the use of iconic 50’s imagery, but I didn’t find any of it to be painfully overdone. Seeing those comic book pages from Raiders of the Lost Ark sort of reminded me how these films are really just comic book adventures come to life. So, as long as the wild ride actually leads us somewhere worthwhile in the end, I’m more than willing to suspend my disbelief... a lot.

I loved the entire first part of the film, from Indy being dumped out of the Ford's trunk, to the rocket sled, to the bomb-blast, and then the look on his face while they scrubbed him down. I really enjoyed the motorcycle chase through the college town, and wish that the whole motorcycle thing had been used once more before the end of the film. I think Karen Allen is (still) totally adorable, and loved seeing her interact with Harrison Ford, who... was also fun to watch throughout the film, because he always comes off as being a cool guy, even when he has lost his cool.

But again, my one significant problem with the film is how the whole thing resolves itself. Not the subject matter so much, because I’m willing to roll with the “alien” thing, but rather with how the bad guy, or in this case gal, gets her just rewards. And then how the good guys make their escape, and for what reason.

Seeing Spalko do a General Grievous (eyes catch fire and explode) after some vague and last minute mention that the “gift” of knowledge might be too much for her, is a serious problem to me. If, while the plot was unfolding, there had been hints alluding to that ending--if the ancient clues and legends had mentioned the dangers, then I’d have felt a little buildup of suspense. But instead we got a wham bam thank-you ma’am sort of ending.

And nothing about their escape reinforced or complimented the subplot having to do with this new family unit. Yeah okay, Indy lost his dad, but now he's gained a son, a wife, and an "Ox"... but at no time did I feel that they wouldn't make it. Again, not enough suspense, and too much ILM.

I think that I totally agree about how heavy handed the whole alien thing was. If the final scene had been a little more mysterious, and perhaps not so much all about ILM’s ability to render a huge flying saucer surrounded by flying boulders, then it would have been much cooler. As is, this time around the only think I left wondering was how and why Indy actually got his old job back. What’s the deal, he comes back from a trip to the jungle, tells them he killed some Russians, and so them make him a dean?

I dunno... this time I was even able to laugh at the Mutt/Monkey thing, but I can’t get over the UFO explosion. It’s just lucky that they didn’t actually end the movie with that scene. The wedding is so feel good, heart warming in that Spielberg kind of way, that I suppose I could have forgiven it if the thing had turned out to be a tree full of Keebler Elves instead.

...which I hear is the plot behind Indiana Jones 5. ;)

Mad Slanted Powers
05-28-2008, 12:12 AM
...which I hear is the plot behind Indiana Jones 5. ;)A trip to the North Pole perhaps in a quest to see if Santa is real.

bigbarada
05-28-2008, 12:23 AM
I think Indy 5 should be about an underground world with dinosaurs.:thumbsup:

Anyways, I don't think the alien thing would have bugged me so much if the aliens weren't so "modern" looking. The design was right out of the X-Files or that Alien Autopsy garbage. I think Mars Attacks! had a better representation of a "1950s alien." Bug-eyes, tentacles, exposed brains, stuff like that would have been cooler.

plasticfetish
05-28-2008, 12:23 AM
A trip to the North Pole perhaps in a quest to see if Santa is real.Hahahahahaha!

Mad Slanted Powers
05-28-2008, 12:30 AM
I think Indy 5 should be about an underground world with dinosaurs.:thumbsup:Too late, I saw the trailer for Journey to the Center of the Earth yesterday when I went to see Prince Caspian. Looks like Brendan Fraser will be getting some exposure this year as he is also in the new Mummy movie.

preacher
05-28-2008, 12:43 AM
Finally saw Indy IV. Glad some of you enjoyed. I however am in agreement with those who did not. I can sum my experience up in one word - underwhelming. I cannot recall when I have been more disappointed in a movie. It had that same feeling as Mummy Returns in terms of action and Davinci Code in terms of narration.. Crystal Skulls has many flaws. The killers were: heavy reliance on CGI, cobbled plot, and poor
characterization.

One of the reasons I didn't care for Last Crusade was because of its use of CGI. There were several instances where Last Crusade utilized CGI and it really didn't need to. But because CGI was used it was obvious that it was a shock when it came up. One of the charms of the first two indy movies was the over-the-top stunts that Indy could perform. But even though they were over-the-top they were still performed by real stuntmen. They looked possible, but improbable. Its amazing to me that after three new Star Wars movies where CGI got better and better that the Crystal Skulls movie was such a step back. CGI now allows the impossible stunts to appear on the big screen. Now suddenly a movie series that is supposed to be influenced on late afternoon serials delves further into the superhero genre. The opening morph from the paramount rock to the prarie dog mound was terrible. I thought I was looking at the beginning of Pixar short. I didn't even realize the movie had started.

On to the Second point...I read several interviews with Harrison Ford, who touched briefly on the evolution of the Crystall Skull plot line. When he was asked if anything of the previous drafts remained, Ford replied, "George doesn't let go of anything" Yeah, it shows. George defintely didn't throw anything away and the result is a complete narrative mess without a central theme. The moral was knowledge is power, and yet Indy tells Mutt that school isn't as important as doing what you love. Okay, so he didn't know Mutt was his son, but still if knowledge is power, Indy would have made that point.

The opening scene sequence was horrible. Here we have Area 51, where all sorts of Top Secret crap is kept locked away and the only things protecting it is a single gatehouse with two gaurds? During the red scare no less? Huh. We are to believe that the setting is the 50s, people are paranoid about communism, and a military base that may or may not contain the Ark, not to mention the alien body, has worse security than Walmart? Makes no sense. The place would have been heavily gaurded. The atomic bomb scene in that opening sequence served no purpose. Indy would have been disentegrated in that blast. To reduce dose by even half, the lead lining in that refrigerator door would need to be a couple inches thick. At ground zero lead won't protect you. Irrespective of the laws of physics and the effects of temperature and radiation it should have been cut on the final edit if for no other reason than Indy is no further after the explosion than he was at the beginning. He still ends up at the Army base.

This new adventure touches on scientology and aztec culture. The marriage of the two I think would have been agreeable to me had it not been for the fact that the characters were basically narrating a lesson in Aztec culture. It was as bad and as obvious as Davinci Code. There was so much of narration that very little real meaningful dialogue interplayed between the characters. The movie was one huge Crystall Skull history lesson. Raiders, Doom, and Crusade did this also to an extent. But the narration in those movies interplayed much smoother. In Raiders Indy lectures government agents, in Doom Indy gets into an argument with the maharaja's entourage about the thugee cult, and in Crusade Indy shares his knowledge to impress both Elsa and to gain acceptance from his father. Nearly every piece of dialogue in Skulls concerns Skull lore.

The interdimensional angle was far-reaching. What was the point of making them interdimensional? Why couldn't they have been from outer space? There really is no pay-off except everything gets sucked up in a space-time continuum vortex thing. Yawn. Seen that before. Many times. And another thing, why, if the skeletons of these aliens are made of crystall didn't the soviets just take the skull out of the body they stole from Area 51?

The chase from the waterfall to the obelisk was pointless. I didn't need to see the soviets take the same trail as Indy and the rest. The soviets could have shown up in the courtroom of the 13 and you would have known Mac led them there. There was no suspense leading up to that confrontation with the constant change to show the soviets walking the same path as Indy.

Lastly the characters were very one-dimensional. Mac served no purpose. Other than to be predicatable and annoying I had him pegged seconds after he was taken out of the army car trunk. And if I could predict it, Indy should have seen it coming a mile away. Indy received multiple metals for his service and not for being a flipping idiot. Mutt's character bugged me. I like Shia Lebouf, but he didn't carry this part very well. Not sure if he was high or what, but he really sucked in this movie. I liked him in Transformers and Disturbia. They should have tapped his eccentric nature more which would have made the tough guy act seem all the more hilarious. I did think having him comb his hair constantly was a nice touch and having Indy tell Mutt to quit goofing off was an even nicer touch. There weren't enough of these sorts of moments.

Marion came across as a love crazed high school girl and not the tough-as-nails chick from Raiders. There should have been much more conflict between her and Indy. He ditched her and left her to raise his son alone for 19 years for the love of god. But for some reason all is forgiven almost immediately. The relationship was totally phony and the marriage made it even more phony. I'm glad Indy has been rewarded, but geeze Marion isn't supposed to be that dumb. And another thing, why the hell was Marion at the amazon to begin with? I totally missed how she was related to Oz. I have a feeling that one of the earlier drafts had Abner instead of Oz. At least that would have made sense.

If Mac was not included in the picture Spalko could have worked better. But Mac was a contstant distraction and took valuable screentime to flesh out Spalko's character. The protagonist is only as strong as the antagonist. But with such a poorly fleshed out enemy, Indy came out flat as well.

Heres hoping The Dark Knight succeeds where Crystall Skulls has failed.

plasticfetish
05-28-2008, 12:44 AM
Dare I point out that motorcycle had modern features not found in the '50s, like a disk brake? ;)Yeah, I noticed that today, when I realized that there was a brake fluid reservoir on the right handle, right next to a very modern looking light and signal switch. But... whatever. I don't think you're likely to get a lot of stuntmen that want to race around with an old set of drum brakes to stop them. ;)

bigbarada
05-28-2008, 01:11 AM
One of the reasons I didn't care for Last Crusade was because of its use of CGI. There were several instances where Last Crusade utilized CGI and it really didn't need to. But because CGI was used it was obvious that it was a shock when it came up.

Where did Last Crusade use CGI? Aside from maybe one "morph" at the end when what's-his-name drank from the wrong grail cup? Maybe I'll have to see the movie again.

Regardless, I don't see how CGI automatically makes for a bad movie. You use the best tools available to you at the time.

preacher
05-28-2008, 08:50 AM
Actually, the Morph was really good. There are two instances that too me were most obvious where CGI was used. The first was during the dog fight scene. There is one point where the camera zooms in tight to the enemy pilot and its very clunky. the second is when the Nazi general (Wo ist Jones?) goes over the cliff with the big tank. I agree you use whatever technology you need to make the scene work. My point is that neither of those two shots were necessary. It was already very clear that it was a pilot that was attacking the Henrys, and the tank could have caused the ground by the ledge of the cliff to collapse. Yeah its a nit, but its almost like George does these sorts of things to experiment. I'm all for experimentation, but do it in the lab. The Mutt vs Monkey scene is another example of this. Spielberg could've just as easily shown Mutt swing one time down to the truck while monkeys are assaulting him. Just like his father did 27 years previously when he was escaping from the hobitos tribe. Instead we get clunky use of CGI and are rewarded with Mutt behaving like tarzan.

Last Crusade wasn't a bad movie, but it just wasn't as concise as the other two Indy flicks.

BanthaPoodoo
05-28-2008, 09:59 AM
I'll just make my review short & sweet.

Too much "Ox", not enough Indy... heck, did Jones do anything besides follow that dude around?? Oh wait, thats right he lifted the skull to open that last door.

Aliens? Give me a break... of all the Indy movies I can see how they have some basis in reality (guy ripping out hearts, Ark of the Covenant, Holy Grail) but aliens?? Come on, give me something better than that for the climax at the end.

I was loving this movie up until then (well, except for the whole lead refrigerator thing. How dead would he really have been with that thing bouncing all around & banging & stuff... (thats right its the movies) Why didnt all the lights in the hangar point towards the thing they were looking for? Why did he have to throw that gunpower in the air? If it was so magnetic that it could pull tiny particles through the air, then all those lights hanging down should have been drawn, even in the slightest bit, towards that crate. That is some shotty writing if you ask me.

And what was the point of showing the Ark? Lucas needs to get a grip & stop trying to tie every freaking movie together. I'm surprised they didn't come across those rocks from the first movie somewhere in there....

It was a good romp for a couple hours, but not the best or in the top 3 Indy movies by any means....

BanthaPoodoo
05-28-2008, 10:01 AM
Where did Last Crusade use CGI? Aside from maybe one "morph" at the end when what's-his-name drank from the wrong grail cup? Maybe I'll have to see the movie again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that wasn't CGI. That was really weird looking clay-mation & stop motion animation.

bigbarada
05-28-2008, 11:05 AM
Actually, the Morph was really good. There are two instances that too me were most obvious where CGI was used. The first was during the dog fight scene. There is one point where the camera zooms in tight to the enemy pilot and its very clunky. the second is when the Nazi general (Wo ist Jones?) goes over the cliff with the big tank. I agree you use whatever technology you need to make the scene work. My point is that neither of those two shots were necessary. It was already very clear that it was a pilot that was attacking the Henrys, and the tank could have caused the ground by the ledge of the cliff to collapse. Yeah its a nit, but its almost like George does these sorts of things to experiment. I'm all for experimentation, but do it in the lab. The Mutt vs Monkey scene is another example of this. Spielberg could've just as easily shown Mutt swing one time down to the truck while monkeys are assaulting him. Just like his father did 27 years previously when he was escaping from the hobitos tribe. Instead we get clunky use of CGI and are rewarded with Mutt behaving like tarzan.

Last Crusade wasn't a bad movie, but it just wasn't as concise as the other two Indy flicks.

Those shots weren't CGI at all, they were traditional optical compositing. You have to keep in mind that this was 1989. The "water-tentacle" from The Abyss was about as good as it got for CGI back in those days and everyone was surprised that even that turned out as good as it did. The technology to make a CG "digital double" simply didn't exist.

bigbarada
05-28-2008, 11:06 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that wasn't CGI. That was really weird looking clay-mation & stop motion animation.

I guessed as much, but I haven't seen the movie in so long that I was willing to give preacher the benefit of the doubt.

preacher
05-28-2008, 11:21 AM
Those shots weren't CGI at all, they were traditional optical compositing. You have to keep in mind that this was 1989. The "water-tentacle" from The Abyss was about as good as it got for CGI back in those days and everyone was surprised that even that turned out as good as it did. The technology to make a CG "digital double" simply didn't exist.

Fair enough. I stand corrected. Still think they were goofed experimental shots. My argument is that shots like this are unnecessary and really stick out like a sore thumb.

bigbarada
05-28-2008, 12:15 PM
I'll have to rewatch those scenes and see if I can identify what methods were used. My first guess would be go-motion miniatures. Go-motion was believed to be the next step up from stop-motion, in which the animator would do the traditional frame by frame adjustments; but they would be saved in a computer and the computer would then move the puppets using rods to create a more fluid, realistic motion. The method was pioneered during the making Dragonslayer in 1981. It was supposed to be the next level of special effects, until Jurassic Park burst onto the scene in 1993 and all the stop-motion and go-motion methods went 'piff.'

BanthaPoodoo
05-28-2008, 12:39 PM
I'll have to rewatch those scenes and see if I can identify what methods were used. My first guess would be go-motion miniatures. Go-motion was believed to be the next step up from stop-motion, in which the animator would do the traditional frame by frame adjustments; but they would be saved in a computer and the computer would then move the puppets using rods to create a more fluid, realistic motion. The method was pioneered during the making Dragonslayer in 1981. It was supposed to be the next level of special effects, until Jurassic Park burst onto the scene in 1993 and all the stop-motion and go-motion methods went 'piff.'

Webpage describing the process with pictures:

http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/making_4_postproduction.php


So its a little stop motion, morphing, & other techniques all in one shot.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-28-2008, 02:00 PM
7. The Paramount mountain turning into a prairie dog mound. A cute little nod to the opening of Raiders and a hint that this film isn't intended to be taken as seriously as the first Indy movie. Mountains vs. molehills? You see where I'm going with this?
Don't forget that the other two movies also had similar effects.

Ji'dai
05-28-2008, 02:30 PM
Irina could have simply tracked them employing her alleged psychic abilities--which were woefully underused by the way. She simply could've been "following" the skull. . . "It zpeaks to me, it vrought me to you..." The psychic stuff was another Cold War reference; both the US and Soviet intelligence services funded psychic research during this time. I don't think Irina had any actual paranormal abilities; and Indy just chuckles to himself whenever she tries to "read" his mind. She may believe she has extra-sensory power and her gov't may as well, but it's all just nonsense.

LTBasker
05-28-2008, 03:14 PM
I saw it yesterday, and seem to have the same feeling of underwhelment that the majority of people do. As a basic action flick, I enjoyed it, although I felt like I was watching National Treasure 2 again when they reached the temple.

When it first began I was wondering if it was actually the movie opening or a preview for a sequel to American Graffiti, I would have much rather had it start in the warehouse just before the Russians invade. They blew their attempt to make the Indy-reveal scene truly epic by spoiling it in the trailers, they either should have used a different scene from the movie or shot a scene exclusive for the teaser trailer. Also, the entire set appeared to be a cheaply done soundstage.

It was boring up until he started collecting gunpowder, I thought for sure he would be using that to get away from the Russians. But nope...he escapes as a Russian can't keep his finger off the trigger and the others fled from their incompetent comrade like roaches when the lights come on. So much for Russian military training. As well, their magnetic physics seem to be very out of whack. This thing attracts tiny fragments through the air from a distance, but belt buckles, dogtags, swords, etc. are only attracted to it when in close proximity? Plus, somehow it not only attracted random things, but objects would go over obstacles to get to it, instead of an object just attempting to get there via line of sight. I think the shotgun buckshots should've just stayed in place when Indy dropped'em.

Aside from the cheap getaway cover of shooting the soldier in the foot so he'll burst fire at the floor, thus scaring his comrades like roaches when the lights come on, the rest of the warehouse getaway scene wasn't too bad, except we'd already seen most of it. And the truck that Indy lands in after over shooting the troop car seems to appear for only this reason, as we only saw the troop car with them previously?

The rocket sled I was worried about, from the Titanium toy it looked like it may be a cheap CGI scene that tried to recapture the Doom mining car chase, I'm glad it was just used as a quick escape and it turned out well. However, the following scene in the nuclear testing wasn't needed. It should have been that at the last minute Indy lucks out by them noticing him and canceling the test, the existence of this test begs 4 questions though:

1) Why was the tv in the house on, hooked up or even supplied with power in the first place?
2) Why was there apparently no survelliance so just anybody could get in?
3) Why is this around public roads where teens go hotrodding? (Even if the rocket sled had gone in the opposite direction that the road was in, it is still way too close.)
4) If the fridge could survive a nuclear blast, why didn't other fridges and such survive the blast and get blown to the side? Considering the blast was offset to the town, instead of in the center of it, all debris in the area of Indy that could survive should have traveled in the same direction.

Aside from some slight boringness, I didn't have any problems up until we meet Mutt. I liked Shia Lebouf in this, I think he did a great job considering what he was given, his intro could have been toned down a bit. Granted, it wasn't over the top, but it was almost too dramatic for a character we hardly knew anything about, and later learn he's not much of a bad[donkey].

Moving on to the first truly decent sequence of the movie, the motorcycle chase, it was quite fun. The only nitpick I have about it is that Indy had his feet on the road in I'm guessing what would be dress shoes, but didn't seem to have any problems with them melting.

From this point on, my memory's a bit fuzzy from what event lead to each one, so I'll condense them into seperate sections.

The Graveyard:
Nice setting, a little too fake looking, but good and spooky. The warriors in the Skull masks were cool until Indy's gun scared them off and we never saw them again. What was the point in that? With all the entrances/exits they seemed to have handy, they should've been able to dodge any gunfire with no problem. But, for someone who isn't an adventurer like the Ox guy, how did he get through them?

Inside the tomb:
No traps aside from a nest of scorpions? Could they not find anyone clever enough to come up with traps such as those in the previous movies?

In the jungle:
This is where it really jumped the shark, and never came back down. I kept waiting for Jar-Jar to come in at several points, which we got close to...So I'll just start calling that crazy guy Ox-Ox. The escape/sandpit/snake scene was pretty decent, it had some good humor, and also felt like an Indy movie. After that though, I don't think it was much of an Indy movie until the end of the wedding scene with Indy grabbing his hat from Mutt. Anyways...

Junglecutter sequence:
What was the point? They even made a toy for it... why? Nothing happens on it, it's not interesting, and it gets destroyed the first time the action breaks out, but even without it our characters don't have any problems finding clear paths. It was a whole bunch of CGI of it focusing on it cutting down trees and such that became all sorts of redundant. If they had floating landing craft, why didn't they just take the river?...

Car chase and TarMutt:
The car chase itself wasn't too horrible, aside from the previously mentioned useless need for the jungle cutter, since apparently the jungle already has several passageways that are the width of cars. The fencing I could've tolerated more if it hadn't been stretched to the point of Mutt standing on two cars repeating the getting racked by small tree jokes. Then we're subjected to the horrors of Mutt swinging through the vines as though he's been living in the jungle for years, but not only that... Somehow, he's now commanding a horde of monkeys and can swing fast enough to catch up with speeding cars. I could give the benefit of the doubt that he's a natural at swinging due to Indy's obvious skill with swinging around, but going fast enough to catch up to a chase? Right...

Ants:
Again, what was the point? I know they have killer ants in some parts of the world, but this was a ripoff of the scarabs from The Mummy. If they had just been getting chased from swarming ants, it would've been ok. But instead, these ants actually came after them, including climbing on top of one another to reach Irina, and swarming into the Colonel's mouth. What...? And how do our characters escape from such a vindictive foe? They uh...roll in with the small cars. But the ants don't climb the wheels?... Nor do the ants go to the edge of cliff, where the Russians decide to repel. Like the cemetery warriors, the ants just scurry off never to be heard from again.

Marion going off the cliff:
... So, Marion... who is all sorts of out-of-character perky, and not having any field experience or anything of the sort... drives into a tree, that gently lowers them into the river like something from Harry Potter, and doesn't even break? Instead, it whips back and slaps a Russian soldier.

Waterfalls:
Everybody survives 3 waterfalls, including one that is similar to Niagrah Fall's. Why couldn't Indy's lame ex-partner at least die during this?

Temple and Temple warriors:
Cemetery Warriors Take 2 - Yet again we're plagued with protectors of sacred grounds that have mysterious and cool ways...but are complete pushovers. At least we get to see them taken down by the Russians, that was about their only use. Same for the Russian soldiers.

Descent into the obelisk and whatnot:
...National Treasure 2 rings a bell...

Aliens:
I had seen spoilers mentioning the aliens involvement, and was fine with that, even the alien skull. And I didn't mind the 13 Cyrstal Alien skeletons inside the tomb thingy either, nor that they still had some sort of powers that could be tapped into... But everything from that point on jumped the astral shark. I mean, on their planet, when 13 of their people die, do they skin'em and then have them join into 1 being? Alien recycling methods are bizarre. Anyways, the final appearance of the full-skinned alien was very disappointing. Not just because I was hoping we wouldn't actually have to see them, but also they looked very fake. You would think after a complete SW trilogy that just wrapped 3 years ago, they could handle one single alien properly. The alien ship wasn't bad looking, but again, I was hoping we wouldn't see it. I would have preferred they kept any alien ineraction in mythology and the only present versions would have been the Cyrstal Skeletons. The entire destruction of the tomb and such should have been due to a trap that they triggered, not the whole messy "sweeping the footprints." Pretty lazy... Considering how much work it probably took the ancient people to build all that stuff, even with their help, plus the ecological impact that new giant crater will be... :p

Indy's friend:
Completely pointless in every single scene he was in. Not only should Indy have learned by now not to trust ANYBODY, but he really trusts him when he says he's a double-agent in the middle fo the battle? Indy should've just thrown him to the mutant ants. You don't even care when he dies either, because we knew nothing about him prior to learning he's an untrustworthy scumbag.

Despite all of this, I still managed to enjoy quite a bit of the movie, and I say Temple of Doom was far worse, but this suffers from many of the same problems of the SW prequels, especially Phantom Menace. Since it was the first one in nearly 20 years, they tried to make it faaaaar too epic, when they should've kept it toned down a bit, and they attempted to kidify the franchise far too much. Especially with the constant antics of Ox-Ox and the random "cute" animal bits with the groundhogs and monkies.

Beast
05-28-2008, 03:14 PM
The psychic stuff was another Cold War reference; both the US and Soviet intelligence services funded psychic research during this time. I don't think Irina had any actual paranormal abilities; and Indy just chuckles to himself whenever she tries to "read" his mind. She may believe she has extra-sensory power and her gov't may as well, but it's all just nonsense.
The Russians were really into it during that period. Anything that would give them the edge.

That's why the U.S. started funding their own research into it.

Not wanting to be caught with their mental pants down.

bigbarada
05-28-2008, 03:44 PM
Ants:
Again, what was the point? I know they have killer ants in some parts of the world, but this was a ripoff of the scarabs from The Mummy. If they had just been getting chased from swarming ants, it would've been ok. But instead, these ants actually came after them, including climbing on top of one another to reach Irina, and swarming into the Colonel's mouth. What...? And how do our characters escape from such a vindictive foe? They uh...roll in with the small cars. But the ants don't climb the wheels?... Nor do the ants go to the edge of cliff, where the Russians decide to repel. Like the cemetery warriors, the ants just scurry off never to be heard from again.


And the scarabs from The Mummy were just rip offs of all the previous Indy flicks.:p Also, ants will actually climb on top of each other and build living ladders to reach objects. They also cut down tree leaves to use as rafts to cross streams. They're extremely resourceful insects.

I do agree that the scene was taken a little too far in some parts, but I'm satisfied with saying that, once they got an adult human to feed on, then were too busy to search out anyone else.

Droid
05-28-2008, 04:53 PM
I might have given this a shot if they had just said, "Legend has it the skulls are from another world." Then someone says, "Like aliens?" and Indy says, "If you believe in things like that."

If it weren't for the aliens, the atom bomb, and giving Indy a ready made family I could have given this a chance.

Snowtrooper
05-28-2008, 06:23 PM
Gunpowder has nothing magnetic in it but potassium, and not much of that, as I understand it. The shotgun pellets were just as bad, as they're lead.


Gunpowder no. They do, however, make steel shot shotgun shells that civilians can buy, so the military ought to have access to them. Magnetic shot gun pellets were far more believable than the gunpowder was.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-28-2008, 10:20 PM
I might have given this a shot if they had just said, "Legend has it the skulls are from another world." Then someone says, "Like aliens?" and Indy says, "If you believe in things like that."

If it weren't for the aliens, the atom bomb, and giving Indy a ready made family I could have given this a chance.
Indy is indeed very incredulous to the whole alien aspect for a while, jokingly referring to them as "saucer men from Mars" (a reference to the film's working title, of course) and showing the same skepticism with which he treated the so-called "bedtime stories" of the other films.

But they technically AREN'T aliens anyway, according to Ox at least; they're interdimensional beings (though their "portal" looks an awful lot like a spaceship).

Devil King
05-29-2008, 01:53 AM
And what was the point of showing the Ark? Lucas needs to get a grip & stop trying to tie every freaking movie together. I'm surprised they didn't come across those rocks from the first movie somewhere in there......

It's a hallmark of his crappy writing of the last decade. Each and every Star Wars prequel wreaked of this inescapable galactic coincidental familiarity.

As I said on my other forums, I am not going to see this movie. I have my unraped collectors set of the first three and I think I'll save this one Lucas-inspired mythology for myself. The current Mr. Lucas is not the Lucas of A Hew Hope. If you'd asked him 30 years ago, while he was being blasted in the face by a Tunisian sandstorm, if he thought he was making kid's movies, he'd have had you escorted off his set. Now, he drags out his own bloated sense of box office return inevitability and sets it to basically the same John Williams soundtrack and we all mindlessly march into the theater, wallets in hand, hitting the cheese pedal. Well, that pedal no longer dispenses cheese, in case any of you have failed to notice. I knew the moment I heard his waddle tell me how great a job he, Harrison and Steven had done on it that I would NOT be going. And it was effortlessly confirmed the instant I saw all those blatant cgi effects. Unlike Star Wars, I'm not going to allow him to be rewarded with my little piece of undeserved box office reciepts. For me, Indy rides off into the sunset with his friends and famiy at the end of Last Crusade. I touched the burner three times, once for each installment of that atrocious prequel trilogy. Well, not this time. I've learned. He's spent the last 30 years telling everyone he wasn't going to be forced to do it the "hollywood way", that he was going to do it his way, that his movies were his.

Well; congratulations Mr. Lucas, you've become the bloated, talentless, trash-peddler you've always professed yourself not to be. And if you're high-exaultedness is wondering, you also won't be getting penny one of mine wasted on your abortion of a Clone Wars animated series.

bigbarada
05-29-2008, 03:14 AM
It's a hallmark of his crappy writing of the last decade. Each and every Star Wars prequel wreaked of this inescapable galactic coincidental familiarity.

As I said on my other forums, I am not going to see this movie. I have my unraped collectors set of the first three and I think I'll save this one Lucas-inspired mythology for myself. The current Mr. Lucas is not the Lucas of A Hew Hope. If you'd asked him 30 years ago, while he was being blasted in the face by a Tunisian sandstorm, if he thought he was making kid's movies, he'd have had you escorted off his set. Now, he drags out his own bloated sense of box office return inevitability and sets it to basically the same John Williams soundtrack and we all mindlessly march into the theater, wallets in hand, hitting the cheese pedal. Well, that pedal no longer dispenses cheese, in case any of you have failed to notice. I knew the moment I heard his waddle tell me how great a job he, Harrison and Steven had done on it that I would NOT be going. And it was effortlessly confirmed the instant I saw all those blatant cgi effects. Unlike Star Wars, I'm not going to allow him to be rewarded with my little piece of undeserved box office reciepts. For me, Indy rides off into the sunset with his friends and famiy at the end of Last Crusade. I touched the burner three times, once for each installment of that atrocious prequel trilogy. Well, not this time. I've learned. He's spent the last 30 years telling everyone he wasn't going to be forced to do it the "hollywood way", that he was going to do it his way, that his movies were his.

Well; congratulations Mr. Lucas, you've become the bloated, talentless, trash-peddler you've always professed yourself not to be. And if you're high-exaultedness is wondering, you also won't be getting penny one of mine wasted on your abortion of a Clone Wars animated series.

I would say that if you really cherish your memories of the first three Indiana Jones films and don't want your esteem of Indiana Jones lessened, then you should avoid this movie.

JON9000
05-29-2008, 08:45 AM
Man, you know what I hated about this movie? The part where they jump out of a plane and that raft opens up and they magically float down to a soft landing, then go over a cliff. That's like, so unrealistic and it makes me hate Indy. I'm so glad I have my virgin trilogy.

Oh, what, that scene was in Temple? CURSES!!!!

Droid
05-29-2008, 09:33 AM
It's a hallmark of his crappy writing of the last decade. Each and every Star Wars prequel wreaked of this inescapable galactic coincidental familiarity.

As I said on my other forums, I am not going to see this movie. I have my unraped collectors set of the first three and I think I'll save this one Lucas-inspired mythology for myself. The current Mr. Lucas is not the Lucas of A Hew Hope. If you'd asked him 30 years ago, while he was being blasted in the face by a Tunisian sandstorm, if he thought he was making kid's movies, he'd have had you escorted off his set. Now, he drags out his own bloated sense of box office return inevitability and sets it to basically the same John Williams soundtrack and we all mindlessly march into the theater, wallets in hand, hitting the cheese pedal. Well, that pedal no longer dispenses cheese, in case any of you have failed to notice. I knew the moment I heard his waddle tell me how great a job he, Harrison and Steven had done on it that I would NOT be going. And it was effortlessly confirmed the instant I saw all those blatant cgi effects. Unlike Star Wars, I'm not going to allow him to be rewarded with my little piece of undeserved box office reciepts. For me, Indy rides off into the sunset with his friends and famiy at the end of Last Crusade. I touched the burner three times, once for each installment of that atrocious prequel trilogy. Well, not this time. I've learned. He's spent the last 30 years telling everyone he wasn't going to be forced to do it the "hollywood way", that he was going to do it his way, that his movies were his.

Well; congratulations Mr. Lucas, you've become the bloated, talentless, trash-peddler you've always professed yourself not to be. And if you're high-exaultedness is wondering, you also won't be getting penny one of mine wasted on your abortion of a Clone Wars animated series.

Very well put!

figrin bran
05-29-2008, 10:41 AM
This paper model site has a downloadable Disney Indy Temple of the Forbidden Eye (http://www.disneyexperience.com/models/index.php)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-29-2008, 11:39 AM
It's a hallmark of his crappy writing of the last decade. Each and every Star Wars prequel wreaked of this inescapable galactic coincidental familiarity.
Yeah, what's next? The main villain is going to turn out to be the main hero's father? Bull****. And THEN the main female lead is going to be the hero's SISTER??? What the ****, that is just too hard to swallow.

bigbarada
05-29-2008, 11:48 AM
Yeah, what's next? The main villain is going to turn out to be the main hero's father? Bull****. And THEN the main female lead is going to be the hero's SISTER??? What the ****, that is just too hard to swallow.

For the record, I thought Vader being Luke's dad was very cool, very much like an ancient Greek tragedy. However, making Luke and Leia brother and sister at the last minute in ROTJ was quite lame.

BanthaPoodoo
05-29-2008, 02:21 PM
What was the purpose of using a snake as a rope? They're in a jungle, probably lot of sticks, limbs, vines, etc laying around...

Grab onto a snake to pull you out? Yeah, I'm sure that sucker will stay together with two 150+ lbs on each side pulling on it. There'd be guts everywhere!

I know why they did it... so the audience would be like, oh yeah, that's right Indy doesn't like snakes.... it's a good thing they put that in there or I would never have remembered that!

Too slapstick, too goofy, and totally not necessary. It may be bring in millions at the box office, but they laid a giant turd with this one.

Tarzan LaBeouf was also a little hard to stomach. He gets up & all of a sudden gets a mob of monkeys on his side that not only let him swing around with em, but also acts as his own personal GPS & directs him to the car chase? Come one now.... Too much stuff crammed into this thing. It was an OK movie that might stand on its own, but no way does this deserve to be called an Indiana Jones movie at all.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-29-2008, 03:55 PM
While I didn't hate the Mutt-on-vines thing like most of you did, I do think it would have been a better opportunity to reintroduce the motorcycle instead, and have him catch up with the rest of the action and maybe fight off some commie bastards by himself.

El Chuxter
05-29-2008, 07:29 PM
The devil is in the details, or at least the execution of the details, and not in the overall plot. For instance, there are three very good novels out there called The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith. The underlying story, no matter how corny, is not the problem.

Or another example: How about a movie where an American living in Paris escapes to neutral Morocco, leaving behind his one true love when she simply doesn't show up? He starts up a bar, and, a couple of years later, he finds out that a resistance leader is going to be in town, trying to get passage to the States. Coincidentally, it's the husband of his former lover, whom she thought was dead. They meet up, and are still in love, but he recognizes that her husband getting to the US is more important than anything else. He essentially sacrifices himself to the Nazis so that the two can escape, but is, luckily, given a reprieve when the local constable changes sides at the last minute.

Sound corny? You bet your a** it does. Cornier than everything in TPM, AOTC, and ROTS combined, if you want to get down to it. But the execution is a million times better than anything in the SW prequels, and I don't know anyone who's seen Casablanca who doesn't think it's an awesome movie.

Simply put, everything must happen for a reason. Is there a reason to show Greedo getting beat up by Anakin? Not really. Back to the subject, is there a reason to show the Ark? Again, not really. Keep in mind that "putting a little something in for the fans" is not a valid reason, story-wise. That's what fanfic is for. Not big budget movies.

JediTricks
05-30-2008, 02:59 AM
A trip to the North Pole perhaps in a quest to see if Santa is real.Nicely done!



Marion came across as a love crazed high school girl and not the tough-as-nails chick from Raiders. There should have been much more conflict between her and Indy. He ditched her and left her to raise his son alone for 19 years for the love of god. But for some reason all is forgiven almost immediately. The relationship was totally phony and the marriage made it even more phony. I'm glad Indy has been rewarded, but geeze Marion isn't supposed to be that dumb. And another thing, why the hell was Marion at the amazon to begin with? I totally missed how she was related to Oz. I have a feeling that one of the earlier drafts had Abner instead of Oz. At least that would have made sense.Except Abner is dead. But yeah, Marion really was a little quicky to be moony over Indy like that, and not as tough as she once was (hey, she's old, not everybody's Indy).


Yeah, I noticed that today, when I realized that there was a brake fluid reservoir on the right handle, right next to a very modern looking light and signal switch. But... whatever. I don't think you're likely to get a lot of stuntmen that want to race around with an old set of drum brakes to stop them. ;)That's a very bad excuse actually, look at all the period vehicles they ARE risking their lives on in this film, they could have doctored up the bike to look older, if not just gotten an older bike. I know audiences aren't as familiar with the bikes, but it's like using a 1978 Mustang for the hot rod in the beginning, there's just no reason to do it wrong (ok, bad example, a 1978 Mustang is an awful, ugly *** car).


Actually, the Morph was really good. There are two instances that too me were most obvious where CGI was used. The first was during the dog fight scene. There is one point where the camera zooms in tight to the enemy pilot and its very clunky. the second is when the Nazi general (Wo ist Jones?) goes over the cliff with the big tank. I agree you use whatever technology you need to make the scene work. My point is that neither of those two shots were necessary. It was already very clear that it was a pilot that was attacking the Henrys, and the tank could have caused the ground by the ledge of the cliff to collapse. Yeah its a nit, but its almost like George does these sorts of things to experiment. I'm all for experimentation, but do it in the lab. The Mutt vs Monkey scene is another example of this. Spielberg could've just as easily shown Mutt swing one time down to the truck while monkeys are assaulting him. Just like his father did 27 years previously when he was escaping from the hobitos tribe. Instead we get clunky use of CGI and are rewarded with Mutt behaving like tarzan.

Last Crusade wasn't a bad movie, but it just wasn't as concise as the other two Indy flicks.I would call out the fake blimp, but none of the scenes you mentioned are purely CGI, I believe, they're traditionally composited shots. And they don't look good, no, but I think they worked better for the feeling of the movie than the CGI of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull which was just so big and had so many bad camera angles and close-ups to accommodate the CGI.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but that wasn't CGI. That was really weird looking clay-mation & stop motion animation.Actually, that's the first CGI-processed scene ever, it's morphing multiple live-action versions, rather than taking each version spit out of the computer and compositing them together on film.



Moving on to the first truly decent sequence of the movie, the motorcycle chase, it was quite fun. The only nitpick I have about it is that Indy had his feet on the road in I'm guessing what would be dress shoes, but didn't seem to have any problems with them melting.Leather soles wouldn't melt, they'd scrape away, and they probably would survive a few seconds on the street.


Temple and Temple warriors:
Cemetery Warriors Take 2 - Yet again we're plagued with protectors of sacred grounds that have mysterious and cool ways...but are complete pushovers. At least we get to see them taken down by the Russians, that was about their only use. Same for the Russian soldiers.You have some good points, but this is one I hadn't had a chance to mention before. You are right on the money with those warriors, they did nothing at all, they were so lame, no payoff with them whatsoever.



They do, however, make steel shot shotgun shells that civilians can buy, so the military ought to have access to them. Magnetic shot gun pellets were far more believable than the gunpowder was.Not in 1957 though.



But they technically AREN'T aliens anyway, according to Ox at least; they're interdimensional beings (though their "portal" looks an awful lot like a spaceship).That doesn't preclude them being aliens, just extraterrestrial aliens (and even that isn't accurate, we don't know what f'ing planet they're from in their native dimension).



This paper model site has a downloadable Disney Indy Temple of the Forbidden Eye (http://www.disneyexperience.com/models/index.php)That is insanely cool, even though I was expecting the actual ride inside. :p



What was the purpose of using a snake as a rope? They're in a jungle, probably lot of sticks, limbs, vines, etc laying around...

Grab onto a snake to pull you out? Yeah, I'm sure that sucker will stay together with two 150+ lbs on each side pulling on it. There'd be guts everywhere!

I know why they did it... so the audience would be like, oh yeah, that's right Indy doesn't like snakes.... it's a good thing they put that in there or I would never have remembered that!

Too slapstick, too goofy, and totally not necessary. It may be bring in millions at the box office, but they laid a giant turd with this one.Totally! And Indy's reactions to the snake, I thought he was SNEEZING! That wasn't even well-delivered.



The devil is in the details, or at least the execution of the details, and not in the overall plot. For instance, there are three very good novels out there called The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith. The underlying story, no matter how corny, is not the problem.

Or another example: How about a movie where an American living in Paris escapes to neutral Morocco, leaving behind his one true love when she simply doesn't show up? He starts up a bar, and, a couple of years later, he finds out that a resistance leader is going to be in town, trying to get passage to the States. Coincidentally, it's the husband of his former lover, whom she thought was dead. They meet up, and are still in love, but he recognizes that her husband getting to the US is more important than anything else. He essentially sacrifices himself to the Nazis so that the two can escape, but is, luckily, given a reprieve when the local constable changes sides at the last minute.

Sound corny? You bet your a** it does. Cornier than everything in TPM, AOTC, and ROTS combined, if you want to get down to it. But the execution is a million times better than anything in the SW prequels, and I don't know anyone who's seen Casablanca who doesn't think it's an awesome movie.

Simply put, everything must happen for a reason. Is there a reason to show Greedo getting beat up by Anakin? Not really. Back to the subject, is there a reason to show the Ark? Again, not really. Keep in mind that "putting a little something in for the fans" is not a valid reason, story-wise. That's what fanfic is for. Not big budget movies.That was the single-most forced, false, apologistic post I've ever seen for Lucas in all 9 years I've been moderating these forums. Way to go! :thumbsup:

But the plot of Indy 4 totally sucked, a major mess, I can't let that one pass, it was far worse than the PT plots separately taken, and I think those are some crummy plots.

plasticfetish
05-30-2008, 04:13 AM
That's a very bad excuse actually...No, you're right, it's a really lame excuse. And not to bang the whole motorcycle thing to death, but after pulling up some photos (http://www.hfm2.com/photopost1/showphoto.php/photo/6163) of that bike, I think it's probably a brand new Harley that's been detailed some to look old. So, not like using a '78 mustang... more like an '06 mustang instead of the real thing. ;)

They could have customed out a real '56 panhead and made it safe, but what it really boils down to is that Shia did actually ride that bike (http://www.hfm2.com/photopost1/showphoto.php/photo/6181) some, and they'd never stick him on an older bike. (Steve McQueen he aint.)

Tycho
05-30-2008, 06:00 AM
I just wanted to add that my uncle and his girlfriend saw the movie and enjoyed it more than I did.

My uncle who has no interest or respect for my love of Star Wars was telling me that you have to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the campiness of Indy surviving a nuclear blast in a refridgerator, and all the waterfalls, etc. I don't think the alien spaceship bothered him either, because it wasn't in space but rather it was shown on earth.

It must be illustrative of something if my uncle liked this movie and I felt kind of let down by it.

El Chuxter
05-30-2008, 08:59 AM
Apologistic? Funny, I was going for the opposite. The basic story of the prequels isn't bad, but the way they're executed sucks. Given that Lucas was the director on all three, that's not a plus. My point was, executed properly, even a turd can look like a diamond. Or, to put it another way, in less-skilled hands, even Casablanca could look like a turd.

Bad plot or no, if the execution of Indy IV were great (and I'm not saying it's not at this point), one could more easily overlook holes in the plot. And, with better execution, any pacing problems could be dealt with in directing and editing.

Droid
05-30-2008, 02:03 PM
I think the overall story from the prequels was bad, because it wasn't the story we were promised in the original trilogy, but that is an argument that has been had before...

jedibear
05-31-2008, 12:17 AM
Wow...
I wish i could say I was surprised at the abundance of bad feedback this movie is getting in here and on other boards, but I'm not. Sad, but not surprised. More and more, there are times I go to a movie or get a figure these days where I wonder...did I see the same movie or get the same figure?

I guess I'm in the extreme minority here for my enthusiasm for this movie...I loved it.

Like the ones before it were created in the '30s serial style, this one "updated" to an over-the-top '50's pulp vibe that once you got into the spirit of it, it was quite fun. From the Atomic Bomb/Red Scare backdrop to the whole cheesy "Chariots of the Gods" sci-fi ending, "Crystal Skull" whips through it's paces by not taking itself too seriously, yet it still manages to ground the viewer by having it's focus right where it should be...on Indiana Jones.

Where there over-the-top moments that go just a little too far? You bet...
Having Mutt pull a "Tarzan" after a wacky chase that was no more improbable than that mine car chase in "Temple of Doom" but not as visceral or hyper-real as the classic jeep/truck chase from "Raiders" , but as sequences in other Indy movies have managed, outrageous or not, it fit in just fine. Even the moments that take the most heat from people like the Refrigerator escape or Mutt's "Tarzan" escapades works in moving the action along.

There were little touches along the way that really stood out for me...the striking image of Indy on the ridge watching the atomic mushroom cloud...being back in that warehouse again for a great set piece to start the film...the look of sadness and regret and self-realization that crosses Indy's face as he sits at his desk after being excused from the college...the use of a light bar across Spalko's eyes during close-ups (very '50s) as well as her desperate cries of "Cover it! Cover it!" during her demise...the giddiness of Marion's first appearance alongside Indy...that classic hubcap saucer that made me smile and think "Klaatu! Nitko! Barada!" as it rose into the chaotic sky...and so many more. John Williams was in top form providing the aural soundscape that introduces some new themes also manages to sample and reprise some old motifs to great effect. One of the many key moments of music that I really loved was the spirited light playful bit behind Mutt's jungle swing, in fact that whole sequence is just terrific (track 10 on the CD)..it just moves and sways with such variety, from the fencing to the hot pursuit to the swinging through the jungle...it's a slice of score with a great energy that would make a great concert piece.

I got a kick out of the obvious winks at the audience like the ark peeking out from a shattered crate...Indy "having a bad feeling about this"...to the slightly more subtle ones like the "Outsiders" Soc/Greaser brawl in the American Graffiti-esque cafe, the "Young Indy" reference to his Poncho Villa adventure...but the one main thing that kept me truly glued to the screen was....Indiana Jones himself.

Ford just seemed so engaged with the part again...his enthusiasm and performance were just terrific. Still the man's man with a hint of vulnerability like the best leading men have been, one of the keys to this performance's success was the chemistry with Mutt...it just plays well. Instead of being a cliche' (like being annoyed with a kid), Ford plays it almost genial and pleasant and it grounds the both of them in the midst of the outrageous chases and intense spots they find themselves in over the course of the story. It's a great choice on Ford's part.

Shia proves his mettle here as well, managing to offer some sensitivity amidst the "bad boy" bluster...he was especially effective in showing his care and concern for Ox and his mother...well done. The chemistry between he and Ford feels sincere and it's fun to watch the relationship go through it's paces...it's an aspect of the film I didn't expect to enjoy as much as I did.

Where there missteps here? Sure...everyone will have their own wince-inducing moments (many have already been documented in a lot of the posts here)...the only one that keeps bugging me are the overused prairie dogs...ack! More than the Tarzan sequence (which I actually liked) or anything in the kitchen-sink finale, those guys took me out of the movie...but they're over quick.

I'm always going to be glad that Spielberg, Lucas and Ford made one more trip with that whip-cracking hero...it's a fun film that I'll be sure and catch a few more times on the big screen this summer...

Okay...roast away folks...

Devil King
05-31-2008, 01:39 AM
Man, you know what I hated about this movie? The part where they jump out of a plane and that raft opens up and they magically float down to a soft landing, then go over a cliff. That's like, so unrealistic and it makes me hate Indy. I'm so glad I have my virgin trilogy.

Oh, what, that scene was in Temple? CURSES!!!!

Hey, how ever you want to justify a ****ty movie, you do it. And while you're at it, buy up all the prequel figures you find and stand in line at 1 AM for your tickets to the clone wars animated movie. Personally, I'm not going to fund Lucas' arrogant assumptions or faulty writing. I will not be seeing this movie, based on the tagedy of the SW prequels. I'm just not up for Mr. anti-Hollywood craping all over his own mythology so he can prove how hollywood he has become. Over the last decade I've watched him consciously write movies that don't add up, and then turn around and feed us patch-jobs that seek to explain away his own craptastic writing. Sorry, I'm not up for it anymore. I'm not interested in him being remembered by the industry insiders for formulating the technique for evading the merrits of reality in filming. I'm more interested in telling a good story that could possibly stand up to his obvious reliance on special effects to tell a story. I'm not basing this on a self-centered understanding of the mythology or a presumption of ownership of the franchise, I'm basing it on the reality of guidlines that were set forth by the movies he's already created. By all means, lap up the clone wars animated continuation of his sub-par crap. I'm not doing it anymore. And to remain on topic, I'm not going to allow him to do it to Indian Jones. Sorry, but I get the concept of not craping in the same place I eat. But, you go ahead and crack your wallet and reward his arrogantly presumptious writing and behavior. I'm content that the burden isn't mine.

Blue2th
05-31-2008, 02:10 AM
I guess I'm in the extreme minority here for my enthusiasm for this movie...I loved it.

I'm with you there, I loved it as well. Highly entertaining. Your post as well. :thumbsup:

Bel-Cam Jos
05-31-2008, 09:11 AM
I seemed to have been rushed, and without the technology that was available a week ago, I could not create the list I really wanted, therefore...


How do I like theee, Indy4? Let me list (LIST... :drool: ) the ways:

TOP TEN REASONS WHY I LIKED IJatKotCS the Special Edition:
10.Marcus's painting in the college
9. Map travel lines (a.k.a. geography, kids :p )
8. Cate Blanchett [sp?] crushing ants :lipsrsealed:
7.5. Indy's library "lecture" on archeology
7. "You're a... teacher?" "Part time."
6.5 Indy's students still not finishing that 4th chapter of their assigned reading
6. Indy's whip swing coming up a bit short :whip:
5. The chases (the college and local streets, jungle trucks)
4. Brief glimpse of the Ark
3.5. The groundhog mound as the opening Paramount hill gag
3. Using a refrigerator to escape an H-bomb blast
2. Using a snake as a rope :sss:
1. Those "heavy" punches and gunfire sound effects

joshephe
05-31-2008, 09:11 AM
Wow...
I guess I'm in the extreme minority here for my enthusiasm for this movie...I loved it.



I also liked it.

jonthejedi
06-01-2008, 06:28 AM
I was a little late seeing Indy IV, since my family & I were in Florida for my son's Make-A-Wish trip...finally caught it last night and absolutely loved it(my favorite Indy after Raiders). I got more than I expected(though I'd really like to get my hands on Frank Darabont's script) with the stunts & action sequences. And yes, you can see Lucas' influence with the history-teaching & timeline using the character of IJ. They even paid reference to Young Indy's Mexico Adventure. I thought the chemistry between the principals was great, and after 5 mins., I forgot Harrison was in his sixties. I liked the beginning as much as the finale, and it was fun how they worked the Ark in. Mostly, I went to escape & be entertained...and boy, Spielberg still has the gift. Bring on the next one!

jedibear
06-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Here, here!

JON9000
06-01-2008, 02:31 PM
Hey, how ever you want to justify a ****ty movie, you do it. And while you're at it, buy up all the prequel figures you find and stand in line at 1 AM for your tickets to the clone wars animated movie. Personally, I'm not going to fund Lucas' arrogant assumptions or faulty writing. I will not be seeing this movie, based on the tagedy of the SW prequels. I'm just not up for Mr. anti-Hollywood craping all over his own mythology so he can prove how hollywood he has become. Over the last decade I've watched him consciously write movies that don't add up, and then turn around and feed us patch-jobs that seek to explain away his own craptastic writing. Sorry, I'm not up for it anymore. I'm not interested in him being remembered by the industry insiders for formulating the technique for evading the merrits of reality in filming. I'm more interested in telling a good story that could possibly stand up to his obvious reliance on special effects to tell a story. I'm not basing this on a self-centered understanding of the mythology or a presumption of ownership of the franchise, I'm basing it on the reality of guidlines that were set forth by the movies he's already created. By all means, lap up the clone wars animated continuation of his sub-par crap. I'm not doing it anymore. And to remain on topic, I'm not going to allow him to do it to Indian Jones. Sorry, but I get the concept of not craping in the same place I eat. But, you go ahead and crack your wallet and reward his arrogantly presumptious writing and behavior. I'm content that the burden isn't mine.

Feel better after venting, sweetheart? You're taking a silly romp of a movie awfully seriously.

Beast
06-01-2008, 02:35 PM
Feel better after venting, sweetheart? You're taking a silly romp of a movie awfully seriously.
No kidding. Someone needs a nap.

bigbarada
06-01-2008, 03:20 PM
Hey, how ever you want to justify a ****ty movie, you do it. And while you're at it, buy up all the prequel figures you find and stand in line at 1 AM for your tickets to the clone wars animated movie. Personally, I'm not going to fund Lucas' arrogant assumptions or faulty writing. I will not be seeing this movie, based on the tagedy of the SW prequels. I'm just not up for Mr. anti-Hollywood craping all over his own mythology so he can prove how hollywood he has become. Over the last decade I've watched him consciously write movies that don't add up, and then turn around and feed us patch-jobs that seek to explain away his own craptastic writing. Sorry, I'm not up for it anymore. I'm not interested in him being remembered by the industry insiders for formulating the technique for evading the merrits of reality in filming. I'm more interested in telling a good story that could possibly stand up to his obvious reliance on special effects to tell a story. I'm not basing this on a self-centered understanding of the mythology or a presumption of ownership of the franchise, I'm basing it on the reality of guidlines that were set forth by the movies he's already created. By all means, lap up the clone wars animated continuation of his sub-par crap. I'm not doing it anymore. And to remain on topic, I'm not going to allow him to do it to Indian Jones. Sorry, but I get the concept of not craping in the same place I eat. But, you go ahead and crack your wallet and reward his arrogantly presumptious writing and behavior. I'm content that the burden isn't mine.

I agree completely, Lucas is definitely NOT a genius, he's a sham. The original Star Wars trilogy and Raiders turned out as good as they did in spite of Lucas, not because of him. The credit for the greatness of those films belongs to other people infinitely more talented than George Lucas.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-01-2008, 05:57 PM
I agree completely, Lucas is definitely NOT a genius, he's a sham. The original Star Wars trilogy and Raiders turned out as good as they did in spite of Lucas, not because of him. The credit for the greatness of those films belongs to other people infinitely more talented than George Lucas.Is the same true for American Graffiti or THX 1138? It's been a while since I've seen the latter so I can't comment on the quality of that film.

bigbarada
06-01-2008, 07:31 PM
Is the same true for American Graffiti or THX 1138? It's been a while since I've seen the latter so I can't comment on the quality of that film.

For American Graffiti, I would give Gloria Katz and Willard Huck more credit for the script (they also wrote most of the script for ANH) and the cast for the performances. Also, back then, Lucas was smart enough to realize that he wasn't infallible. So he was willing to actually listen to his actors, screenwriters, etc. if they had a better idea. He seems to have forgotten that he's not perfect and everything is now "his way or the highway."

I saw THX 1138 and it's in interesting little experiment, but nothing great.

JediTricks
06-01-2008, 07:33 PM
No, you're right, it's a really lame excuse. And not to bang the whole motorcycle thing to death, but after pulling up some photos (http://www.hfm2.com/photopost1/showphoto.php/photo/6163) of that bike, I think it's probably a brand new Harley that's been detailed some to look old. So, not like using a '78 mustang... more like an '06 mustang instead of the real thing. ;)Yeah, I knew that "78 mustang" thing wouldn't quite work and would get caught. :D The worst part of this weak redressing is it's an Evo motor, just reeks of not that era. The kickstarter is set too far back as well, because it's a bolt-on or a dummy.


They could have customed out a real '56 panhead and made it safe, but what it really boils down to is that Shia did actually ride that bike (http://www.hfm2.com/photopost1/showphoto.php/photo/6181) some, and they'd never stick him on an older bike. (Steve McQueen he aint.)Even looking at that front end's disk brake is weird. And they could have given him training to ride an older bike, or just do a better job doctoring up this modern one. What's the sense in having gleaming chrome spokes and then a dirtied up everything else? I'd hate for them to use a classic old bike though, just because it'd get trashed in the process and there's so few of them left in the world (like the hundreds of '69 Dodge Chargers destroyed for the Dukes of Hazzard, only worse).

LTBasker
06-01-2008, 08:36 PM
I don't really blame Lucas alone for the drop in quality compared to the other Indy movies, we know Speilberg can be fallible in quality as well. Also, if I recall right, they wouldn't make the movie until Lucas, Speilberg and Ford all agreed on the same script. I'm curious how much they had to appease one another to finally agree though, and if that's the reason for the varying quality of scenes.

As for Lucas' ability in general, I think back in the 70's/80's he was able to do quality stuff, though he's best when not in full control. As well, I think senility has hit him a bit.

JediTricks
06-02-2008, 09:37 PM
I think it's the divorce and adopting kids that really messed Lucas' moviemaking ability up, look at ROTJ. Raiders was before his divorce and first adopted kid, ROTJ was right after, the qualities couldn't be more different despite being only 2 years apart.

Tycho
06-02-2008, 11:11 PM
I think it's the divorce and adopting kids that really messed Lucas' moviemaking ability up, look at ROTJ. Raiders was before his divorce and first adopted kid, ROTJ was right after, the qualities couldn't be more different despite being only 2 years apart.

There's a lesson for Tycho's Foundation for the Bolstering of Misogyny (TFBM) somewhere in there.

But please don't confuse the acronym TFBM for something else it also can stand for.

JediTricks
06-02-2008, 11:16 PM
There's a lesson for Tycho's Foundation for the Bolstering of Misogyny (TFBM) somewhere in there.

But please don't confuse the acronym TFBM for something else it also can stand for.
You do realize that by saying that, you're promoting marriage, right? My point was that Lucas' best work came while he was married to Marcia Lucas, yet without the sentimentality and mindset-change of children.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-02-2008, 11:20 PM
There's a lesson for Tycho's Foundation for the Bolstering of Misogyny (TFBM) somewhere in there.Do you have run-ins with Ladies Against Bias In America?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-02-2008, 11:24 PM
Is there a reason to show Greedo getting beat up by Anakin? Not really.
Is there a reason you keep bringing up that deleted scene over and over? :p ;)


I agree completely, Lucas is definitely NOT a genius, he's a sham. The original Star Wars trilogy and Raiders turned out as good as they did in spite of Lucas, not because of him. The credit for the greatness of those films belongs to other people infinitely more talented than George Lucas.
I suggest you read The Making of Star Wars by J.W. Rinzler, which came out last year. Get the hardcover version if you can.


Hey, how ever you want to justify a ****ty movie, you do it. And while you're at it, buy up all the prequel figures you find and stand in line at 1 AM for your tickets to the clone wars animated movie. Personally, I'm not going to fund Lucas' arrogant assumptions or faulty writing. I will not be seeing this movie, based on the tagedy of the SW prequels. I'm just not up for Mr. anti-Hollywood craping all over his own mythology so he can prove how hollywood he has become. Over the last decade I've watched him consciously write movies that don't add up, and then turn around and feed us patch-jobs that seek to explain away his own craptastic writing. Sorry, I'm not up for it anymore. I'm not interested in him being remembered by the industry insiders for formulating the technique for evading the merrits of reality in filming. I'm more interested in telling a good story that could possibly stand up to his obvious reliance on special effects to tell a story. I'm not basing this on a self-centered understanding of the mythology or a presumption of ownership of the franchise, I'm basing it on the reality of guidlines that were set forth by the movies he's already created. By all means, lap up the clone wars animated continuation of his sub-par crap. I'm not doing it anymore. And to remain on topic, I'm not going to allow him to do it to Indian Jones. Sorry, but I get the concept of not craping in the same place I eat. But, you go ahead and crack your wallet and reward his arrogantly presumptious writing and behavior. I'm content that the burden isn't mine.
This begs the question, though . . . why in God's name did you sign up for a Star Wars forum in January 2008 if you've hated everything about SW in the past decade?!? With everyone else who bashes Lucas, at least they joined when they still liked him and/or his movies (or seemed to).

Mad Slanted Powers
06-02-2008, 11:30 PM
I think the overall story from the prequels was bad, because it wasn't the story we were promised in the original trilogy, but that is an argument that has been had before...I don't think we were really promised much. It was mostly speculation.

bigbarada
06-02-2008, 11:48 PM
I suggest you read The Making of Star Wars by J.W. Rinzler, which came out last year. Get the hardcover version if you can.

No thanks, I don't trust any accounts of the making of Star Wars written after 1994. Too much revisionist history floating around these days.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-02-2008, 11:55 PM
No thanks, I don't trust any accounts of the making of Star Wars written after 1994. Too much revisionist history floating around these days.
Which is exactly why you would like that book. Everything in it, with a select few exceptions that are glaringly obvious, is taken from interviews and records conducted in the late 1970s. Or you could just keep believing what you want . . . ;) :D

JediTricks
06-03-2008, 12:18 AM
Do you have run-ins with Ladies Against Bias In America?I get it, that's so not appropriate! :p

bigbarada
06-03-2008, 12:21 AM
Which is exactly why you would like that book. Everything in it, with a select few exceptions that are glaringly obvious, is taken from interviews and records conducted in the late 1970s. Or you could just keep believing what you want . . . ;) :D

What are you talking about? Are you going to dispute the fact that Gloria Katz and Willard Huck co-wrote the screenplays for American Graffiti and ANH? That's not my opinion, go look it up on IMDB, check the credits for both films. If you read the annotated screenplays, it lists which lines from ANH George wrote and which lines Katz and Huck wrote. Most of the non-silly humor and almost all of the iconic lines from the film can be credited to Katz and Huck, not Lucas.

With that in mind, it's logical to assume that the situation was the same for American Graffiti.

Show me a quote from that book that disputes that.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-03-2008, 01:32 AM
George wrote the script in all its versions; Willard and Gloria only polished the dialogue, and it gives some examples. It doesn't mention any "iconic" dialogue, though I do not doubt that someone other than Lucas did most of or all of it.

Nevertheless, I'm talking about the big picture, not just the dialogue; I'm not re-typing the entire book for you or even picking out passages, I just think reading it would be an interesting experience for you.

bigbarada
06-03-2008, 02:09 AM
George wrote the script in all its versions; Willard and Gloria only polished the dialogue, and it gives some examples. It doesn't mention any "iconic" dialogue, though I do not doubt that someone other than Lucas did most of or all of it.

Nevertheless, I'm talking about the big picture, not just the dialogue; I'm not re-typing the entire book for you or even picking out passages, I just think reading it would be an interesting experience for you.

Fair enough. However, considering the big picture, I think my argument still stands. Lucas had little clout back in those days and was under constant pressure from the studios who were very unhappy with his rough cut of the film and had threatened to take the movie away from him and give it to another director. So he was constantly under the gun and the film was falling apart at the seams, but he somehow managed to pull a rabbit out of his hat in the editing room and put together one of the greatest films of all time.

However, without all the hard work from people like Ralph McQuarrie, Joe Johnston, Phil Tippet, John Mollo, Ben Burtt, Willard Huck, Gloria Katz, Alan Ladd Jr., John Williams, etc., then even Lucas' talent for editing wouldn't have been able to save Star Wars.

My problem with modern retellings of the making of Star Wars is that they are so Lucas-centric at the expense of everyone else who worked and sacrificed to make these films.

Anyways, I will check out the book at some point.

Droid
06-03-2008, 09:14 AM
I don't think we were really promised much. It was mostly speculation.

We were promised that a reckless Obi-wan Kenobi would meet Anakin Skywalker, be impressed with his skills as a pilot, and believe he could train Anakin as well as Yoda, his teacher. Obi-wan would take it upon himself to train Anakin as a Jedi. Owen Lars would not agree with Anakin's ideals and urge him to stay on Tatooine. Obi-wan and Anakin would be great friends and fight in the Clone Wars until Anakin, who was still a learner, would be seduced by the POWER of the Dark Side and become Darth Vader. Obi-wan would try to bring Anakin back to the good side and fail. Anakin would father two children, not knowing about at least the girl. The girl would have a close enough relationship with her mother than she would remember her mother whereas the son would not.

This is NOT the story we got.

I know the arguments you will make on how every bit of it that story was in the prequels. I do not believe it was.

But this is an old argument...

Devo
06-03-2008, 02:05 PM
Man, you know what I hated about this movie? The part where they jump out of a plane and that raft opens up and they magically float down to a soft landing, then go over a cliff. That's like, so unrealistic and it makes me hate Indy. I'm so glad I have my virgin trilogy.

Oh, what, that scene was in Temple? CURSES!!!!

I suppose I forgot about scenes like that. There just seemed to be a greater quantity of ridiculously implausible scenarios that the characters survived totally unscathed in KOTCS. The one I particularly buried my head in my palms for was the bit where Marion drives them off a cliff onto a huge tree* which then springs back upwards dispatching some russians. A) How could she know they'd all survive that? (obviously in reality they wouldn't) B) How could she go ahead with it knowing she was putting her sons life in danger (not the usual maternal instinct) and C) Why and how would she find it all funny??? She kept laughing and smiling at every death-defying stunt. I dunno I found it all too much.

Plus the CGI stuck out like a sore thumb - woefully distracting. If you have to use it to that extent don't use it at all - rewrite the scenes. CGI IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Then of course there was that boring middle with all the exposition. It had some good moments - unlike others I quite liked the snake rope scene - and Harrison was great - but overall I thought it was a bit crap.


*oddly this bothered me more than indy surviving a nuclear blast by hiding in a fridge - I had heard about that scene beforehand so I was prepared

Mad Slanted Powers
06-03-2008, 06:29 PM
We were promised that a reckless Obi-wan Kenobi would meet Anakin Skywalker, be impressed with his skills as a pilot, and believe he could train Anakin as well as Yoda, his teacher. Obi-wan would take it upon himself to train Anakin as a Jedi. Owen Lars would not agree with Anakin's ideals and urge him to stay on Tatooine. Obi-wan and Anakin would be great friends and fight in the Clone Wars until Anakin, who was still a learner, would be seduced by the POWER of the Dark Side and become Darth Vader. Obi-wan would try to bring Anakin back to the good side and fail. Anakin would father two children, not knowing about at least the girl. The girl would have a close enough relationship with her mother than she would remember her mother whereas the son would not.

This is NOT the story we got.

I know the arguments you will make on how every bit of it that story was in the prequels. I do not believe it was.

But this is an old argument...No, I won't say that every bit of that was in the prequels, but not every bit of that was promised. For instance, we weren't promised that a reckless Obi-Wan would meet Anakin. We only know that Obi-Wan was once reckless. You also tie all of those things together as if they are connected. You make it sound like Obi-Wan took it upon himself to train Anakin because he was impressed by his pilot skills. The only things you mentioned that I would say the prequels fail on is the Owen thing and maybe the Leia remembering her mother thing.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-03-2008, 06:32 PM
The one I particularly buried my head in my palms for was the bit where Marion drives them off a cliff onto a huge tree* which then springs back upwards dispatching some russians. A) How could she know they'd all survive that? (obviously in reality they wouldn't) B) How could she go ahead with it knowing she was putting her sons life in danger (not the usual maternal instinct) and C) Why and how would she find it all funny??? She kept laughing and smiling at every death-defying stunt. I dunno I found it all too much.I got the impression that she saw something done there and got the idea. Then she disappeared for a bit, and then showed up with the plan. So perhaps she took some time to evaluate the situation. I'd have to see it again though.

El Chuxter
06-03-2008, 07:02 PM
And Owen being Obi-Wan's brother.

Sorry, if he didn't agree with it, Lucas shouldn't have allowed it in the ROTJ novelization, and in several other EU works over the next 19 years.

Tycho
06-04-2008, 12:45 AM
I'm going to agree with MadSlantedPowers on this one.


We were promised that a reckless Obi-wan Kenobi would meet Anakin Skywalker,

Obi-Wan recklessly caved in to his desire to avenge Qui-Gon and charged Darth Maul, nearly losing the fight because he ignored the danger of fighting someone else who could access the Force.


be impressed with his skills as a pilot,

No one else but R2D2 saw how mishap after mishap led Anakin to destroy The Revenue. Everyone else might have thought a podracing champion (which Obi-Wan had at least heard about) also had the skills to fly an N-1. In the end, it was the result that counted in the Battle of Naboo.


and believe he could train Anakin as well as Yoda, his teacher.
Obi-wan would take it upon himself to train Anakin as a Jedi.

Who knows what Obi-Wan believed versus hoped for, but he promised Qui-Gon who'd taken responsibility for Anakin in front of Shmi.


Owen Lars would not agree with Anakin's ideals and urge him to stay on Tatooine.

Obi-Wan told Luke "He didn't hold with your father's ideals and thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved." But that was also the same guy who told Luke that Darth Vader "betrayed and murdered his father," from a certain point of view.


Obi-wan and Anakin would be great friends and fight in the Clone Wars until Anakin, who was still a learner, would be seduced by the POWER of the Dark Side and become Darth Vader.

We saw that, except they decided to Knight Anakin. However, Vader said, "One I was the learner, but now I am the Master." We did see that Anakin never achieved equal rank with Obi-Wan, as the latter became a Master on the High Council, and Anakin was not accorded that rank. "It's insulting!"


Obi-wan would try to bring Anakin back to the good side and fail.

I guess he was trying, but he was mostly arguing with him before and during their fight on Mustafar. Obi-Wan let Padme do most of his begging and pleading for him, prior to that.


Anakin would father two children, not knowing about at least the girl.

Done.


The girl would have a close enough relationship with her mother than she would remember her mother whereas the son would not.

"Just images I guess. She was kind, very beautiful, but sad." Uh - images can be projected by R2D2, and no doubt Padme's official Senate record had videos of her speeches, etc. Still, Luke actually seemed to have just minutes longer with his mother, having been born first.


This is NOT the story we got.

In some ways, I can agree with you Droid.


I know the arguments you will make on how every bit of it that story was in the prequels. I do not believe it was.

Did I make the arguments that you knew I would? :D

JediTricks
06-04-2008, 03:04 AM
Take your prequel arguments to the prequel threads, there's only 2,368 to chose from.

Droid
06-04-2008, 09:24 AM
In some ways, I can agree with you Droid.
Did I make the arguments that you knew I would? :D

You made the arguments I knew you would, but I am really pleased to see you admit that in some ways you agree with me. I think that is what drives some us who critique the prequels nuts. We say the prequels don't match up with the original trilogy and we know the arguments that will be made to defend the prequels. But even after analyzing the arguments we still think they don't match up. I will acknowledge that there are very few direct plot flaws that can't be explained away by some strained logic or twisting of a point of view or just stating original trilogy Obi-wan lied in every bit of dialogue. But prequel defenders will rarely ever admit that sometimes things don't always match up or that you have to look at things in a tortured way to find the stories match seemlessly. So thanks, Tycho! I feel this was productive.

Back to Indiana Jones!

jedibear
06-05-2008, 12:34 AM
Take your prequel arguments to the prequel threads, there's only 2,368 to chose from.

*CRACK* yeah, this is the Indy thread...just heard that whip crack... :)

JimJamBonds
06-08-2008, 02:58 PM
*CRACK* yeah, this is the Indy thread...just heard that whip crack... :)

He was just talking about Club Obi Wan. :laugh:

Blue2th
06-08-2008, 07:38 PM
Anyone ever notice that Irina Spalko sounds like the Baroness?

jedibear
06-08-2008, 08:09 PM
I love Cate Blanchett's delivery in this movie! The line of the week at our house has been:

"Do not toy with me Dr. Jones!"

She's terrific...

Been pouring over the "Making of...Complete Indiana Jones" over the weekend...great read...and it made me want to see KOTCS again, especially after reading some of the BTS accounts and some about the making of the new film.

One example was reading that Guy Armstrong was the fight/stunt coordinator on KOTCS...knowing that now adds a new level of excitement to watching scenes like the excellent hanger 51 sequence...this is the same man who brought his talents to bear on "Casino Royale" recently...the opening chase of that movie is one of the best Bond action scenes ever, and he brings that same hyper-real, visceral intensity to Indy...running across those rafters, taking on Dovchenko...it's just amazing to watch.

And yes, Lucas was really insistent over the years about the "alien" angle...a lot of compromises went back and forth to massage that into the story and make it work for all involved.

Not seeing the movie for a week and then checking it out again really makes me appreciate it even more. It's like listening to a new song by a band you like and not really getting into it right away because...it doesn't sound like the last one you really liked. They added some different instruments to the new one and it just sounds "off"...but before you know it, you can't get the new tune out of your head and you can't believe it didn't blow you away the first time you heard it...

"Kingdom..." is like that to me...a little different than the rest of them, yet with enough of the familiar to make it work. I love this film...

Tycho
06-09-2008, 12:39 AM
I was supposed to see it again today, but my friend I'm going with had to cancel on me. We're rescheduled for Tuesday I think.

What I don't think is that I can stomach it 3 times, so I better wait for him to see it for showing #2 for me. It may grow on me now that I know what to expect. I'm actually curious.

I never thought it was a BAD movie. It just wasn't special to me, either.

Blue2th
06-09-2008, 09:31 AM
I love Cate Blanchett's delivery in this movie! The line of the week at our house has been:

"Do not toy with me Dr. Jones!"

She's terrific...


She's terrific in many ways :love:

My friends and family have been saying for many years:

"Ve have vays of making you talk Dr. Jones!"

Bel-Cam Jos
06-09-2008, 04:34 PM
I am scheduled for another viewing next week with a friend of mine (who was unable to catch it with me opening day), and I hope to have read some of the Making of IJ book, too.


He was just talking about Club Obi Wan.Or the number on Jock's seaplane.

:stayontopic: :whip: :pleased: :Indysmirk:

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-12-2008, 12:35 AM
You kids see that the Darabont Indy 4 script leaked online this week? I was able to find it after hit several dead ends (curse you, Paramount!) and while I've only read a bit, including the ending, i can't help but wonder how awesome this flick would have been. Granted, I loved KOTCS quite a bit, but this one has a different tone, albeit darker, and far more intense.

Points:
- there is no Mutt
- Marion and Indy still end up together
- Sallah and Henry Sr. are at their wedding, both drunk as hell. Sallah gets another kiss from Marion and then sings a song, drunk.
- Indy is tempted but the knowledge of the aliens, but finally turns away, realizing he wants Marion instead of whatever the aliens are offering.
- Indy's pal is Russian, instead of British
- the aliens are REALLY DEADLY and intense, Indy caps one (He does shoot first, btw).
- A lot of stuff is there that we saw in the film, the fridge, ants, skulls, etc.

Anyway, if you can track it down, i'd recommend it. :thumbsup:

Droid
06-12-2008, 09:11 AM
You kids see that the Darabont Indy 4 script leaked online this week? I was able to find it after hit several dead ends (curse you, Paramount!) and while I've only read a bit, including the ending, i can't help but wonder how awesome this flick would have been. Granted, I loved KOTCS quite a bit, but this one has a different tone, albeit darker, and far more intense.

Points:
- there is no Mutt
- Marion and Indy still end up together
- Sallah and Henry Sr. are at their wedding, both drunk as hell. Sallah gets another kiss from Marion and then sings a song, drunk.
- Indy is tempted but the knowledge of the aliens, but finally turns away, realizing he wants Marion instead of whatever the aliens are offering.
- Indy's pal is Russian, instead of British
- the aliens are REALLY DEADLY and intense, Indy caps one (He does shoot first, btw).
- A lot of stuff is there that we saw in the film, the fridge, ants, skulls, etc.

Anyway, if you can track it down, i'd recommend it. :thumbsup:

Well apparently this long lost script isn't the Holy Grail everyone thought it was. Marion's still back? Another wedding? Still aliens? Still the fridge?
NO THANKS! I don't care who is writing it!

Tycho
06-12-2008, 11:56 AM
I haven't seen Crystal Skull for my 2nd time yet. I'm just going to go by next Tuesday if my friend doesn't move on it any faster. He must have been busy as I haven't heard anything.

Meanwhile, I am now starting to watch Young Indy, Volume 3 and am enjoying that more. Pernilla August (Shmi Skywalker) appeared in the first episode as the mother of an Italian girl that Indy was romancing. It wasn't an impressive role really. She was much better in TPM. In fact, other than meeting her for Young Indy, I don't know what else contributed to Lucas and McCallum being so enarmored with her that she was picked to be the mother of The Chosen One.

I really liked her in TPM, though, and her brief appearance in AOTC was crucial to the storyline.

Slicker
06-13-2008, 10:09 AM
I went and saw this tonight. It was pretty "meh". Thankfully I'm leaving tomorrow to go out to sea so I don't have to here how wrong I am for not liking it. :rolleyes:

Blue2th
06-13-2008, 10:17 AM
I went and saw this tonight. It was pretty "meh". Thankfully I'm leaving tomorrow to go out to sea so I don't have to here how wrong I am for not liking it. :rolleyes:

Well then we better tell you before you leave how wrong you are for not liking it.:razz:

JediTricks
06-13-2008, 04:42 PM
I went and saw this tonight. It was pretty "meh". Thankfully I'm leaving tomorrow to go out to sea so I don't have to here how wrong I am for not liking it. :rolleyes:
You were totally wrong!!!!

... for going to see it in the first place. ;)

2-1B
06-14-2008, 01:07 PM
I went and saw this tonight. It was pretty "meh". Thankfully I'm leaving tomorrow to go out to sea so I don't have to here how wrong I am for not liking it. :rolleyes:

Thankfully you didn't like it, or else you'd have to hear how wrong you are for liking it.

Tycho
06-15-2008, 03:52 AM
I saw Indy 4 for my second time tonight. I decided to stay for another movie after I saw Hulk.

I liked Indy better the second time. I knew what to expect and followed the story much better this time. I'm going to watch the other 3 and then evaluate it all from that perspective.

Tycho
06-17-2008, 09:12 AM
I just learned a lot about Ernest Hemmingway from the Young Indiana Jones series.

4 generations of his family committed suicide.

His depression and anger fueled his writing - heh - sounds very familiar.

He struggled with WWI war injuries and health concerns most of his life. That also sounds familiar.

He moved on from woman to woman, though he married them - 4 times!

He won a Pulitzer Prize and the Nobel Prize.

He hit and missed with his writing. Sometimes the critics tore him a new hole - and like I said, other times he won the Pulitzer and Nobel.

In Young Indy, he competes with Indy for the affections of an Italian girl who ends up screwing over both of them.

Hemmingway's controversial stories include one that tells the tale of a young soldier who's penis is blow off by shrapnel during WWI and how the depressed young man struggles to go on with his life, whereas a majority of men define their hopes in life as tied to their sexuality.

It's interesting to me, because when I wrote "The Library," I held nothing back concerning my unconventional philosophies and spared nothing when it came to describing sex and violence topics. Literature is hardcore graphic and accepted as such, whereas the big push for censorship is in film, such that what might be OK in a novel, is deemed pornography on film.

jedibear
06-17-2008, 11:45 AM
....and if you look closely, Hemingway could be considered one of the inspirations for the "Mac" character in KOTCS, right down to his appearance. That's what clicked for me anyway....

Aren't those "Young Indy" episodes great?

El Chuxter
06-17-2008, 01:19 PM
Hemingway also wrote the Dick & Jane primers still used by kindergarteners everywhere. They were his most complex work.

God, I hate that man. William Faulkner should've popped a cap in his arse. I guess he just secretly delighted that Hemingway couldn't digest his grammatically correct 50-page sentences.

Tycho
06-17-2008, 01:42 PM
Hemmingway was also a strong proponent that men should be men, and to the point.

This appeals to me and correlates with how I was taught by my own father.

I think it feels terribly wrong to see men acting in feminine manners and I feel ashamed of myself if I catch my own person behaving as such.

That is why I think some who DO behave counter to their sex at birth actually have to consciously TRY to do so, and thus DECIDE to be that way (unless circumstances, like the lack of a manly father-figure, aided their development in that manner). Anyway, after determining that they've decided upon any counter-behavioral pattern, I also determine that they must be pursuing that path to get attention. Thus it annoys me.

Hemmingway was making a statement in support of common gender identity - and that must be deemed OK and politically correct as well.

RooJay
06-18-2008, 02:28 AM
Thankfully you didn't like it, or else you'd have to hear how wrong you are for liking it.

OH SNAP! I heard that!:thumbsup:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-18-2008, 01:31 PM
I watched it again yesterday and enjoyed it (again). I did see more character development than I did the first time, though I still think it would have been great for Mutt to use his motorcycle in the jungle chase and then have to give it up to work for his family as opposed to just having it taken away from him. I also noticed Henry Sr.'s theme when they showed the picture of him, which was a really nice touch.

I went into it wanting to answer a few things, and they still weren't 100% clear. So the alien/being that the Russians took from Area 51 . . . he DIDN'T have a crystal skeleton, but was just a "distant cousin," according to Spalko. What about the other ones they had found earlier, though? I thought she said they had crystal skeletons. Why wouldn't they just use that one, then? Or did they already return it to the temple years before?

Also, Ox had already encountered the Ugha. So why did their little hidey holes have the covers? Did they just make new ones, or what?

jedibear
06-18-2008, 07:18 PM
Glad you liked it (again)...some of my thoughts on the questions you posed in blue...LMK what you think...




I went into it wanting to answer a few things, and they still weren't 100% clear. So the alien/being that the Russians took from Area 51 . . . he DIDN'T have a crystal skeleton, but was just a "distant cousin," according to Spalko. What about the other ones they had found earlier, though? I thought she said they had crystal skeletons. Why wouldn't they just use that one, then? Or did they already return it to the temple years before?
Use one for what? Assuming you mean as a "psychic transmitter"...well, she did comment that "the skull doesn't speak to everyone" and for the psychic properties to work at the height, they'd have to be together (like the 13 at the end of the movie) to truly function as the "hive mind". I think that was illustrated pretty well during Spalko's final encounter when the skeletons all merge to become one and then the being reforms in it's "original" appearance.

Also, Ox had already encountered the Ugha. So why did their little hidey holes have the covers? Did they just make new ones, or what?
Presuming that Ox had been gone long enough to be in the Sanitarium carving out all that material(clues) on the walls and floors, I think it's a safe bet that the Ugha could have replaced those earthen covers in that time. As Mutt pointed out in the hallway, that torch had been used recently, so it's a fair bet the Ugha maintained the tunnels in addition to guarding them. Just some thoughts anyway...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-18-2008, 07:51 PM
Use one for what? Assuming you mean as a "psychic transmitter"...well, she did comment that "the skull doesn't speak to everyone" and for the psychic properties to work at the height, they'd have to be together (like the 13 at the end of the movie) to truly function as the "hive mind". I think that was illustrated pretty well during Spalko's final encounter when the skeletons all merge to become one and then the being reforms in it's "original" appearance.
What I meant was, why didn't they take the skull/full skeleton to the shrine if they already had one? Or did it have to be the specific skull that had originally been taken from there? I suppose that makes sense, but they didn't really say that in the movie.


Presuming that Ox had been gone long enough to be in the Sanitarium carving out all that material(clues) on the walls and floors, I think it's a safe bet that the Ugha could have replaced those earthen covers in that time. As Mutt pointed out in the hallway, that torch had been used recently, so it's a fair bet the Ugha maintained the tunnels in addition to guarding them. Just some thoughts anyway...
Yeah, that makes sense. But they looked pretty ancient . . . I guess it could have at least been a few years.

RooJay
06-19-2008, 01:06 AM
Also, Ox had already encountered the Ugha. So why did their little hidey holes have the covers? Did they just make new ones, or what?

Perhaps they'd used different holes to hide in when Oxley had first stopped by? Maybe they didn't use any hidey holes the first time around at all. Could be they just wing it and try something new every time folks come snooping around. It's more likely than a scenario which has them all scrambling to their same old hiding holes each time someone comes near so as to pop out all at the right moment and be all: 'Booga-Booga!'

Bel-Cam Jos
06-27-2008, 11:42 PM
Saw it again today for my third (and probably final) time. It was just as fun this as before, although I found myself searching the sides and backgrounds more (still can't find the R2 & Threepio carvings).

Beast
07-13-2008, 04:20 PM
Here's a look at an interesting Indiana Jones IV DVD Boxset from Amazon.De.

My guess, it will turn out to be a Best Buy Exclusive in the U.S.

Since they had the helm and masks for 300, V for Vendetta, and Harry Potter.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-13-2008, 05:04 PM
Here's a look at an interesting Indiana Jones IV DVD Boxset from Amazon.De.

My guess, it will turn out to be a Best Buy Exclusive in the U.S.

Since they had the helm and masks for 300, V for Vendetta, and Harry Potter.

I wonder if those are the ones from the museums that were said to be fake this past week? :p

Regardless, if that's the BB exclusive, i'm ALL OVER THAT. :thumbsup:

Tycho
07-13-2008, 07:00 PM
Well, stare into its eyes for an hour or so to find out.

I want to see what you'll post after you get back. :D

JediTricks
07-13-2008, 10:49 PM
Geez, that paperweight looks better than the actual movie prop.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-13-2008, 11:20 PM
The seams on it are weird, but if the price is right, then I may get it since it looks pretty cool overall.

When does the DVD come out?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
07-14-2008, 09:05 AM
The seams on it are weird, but if the price is right, then I may get it since it looks pretty cool overall.

When does the DVD come out?

I looked it up on DVD Afficionado and they said 10/28. I don't know if it's confirmed or not. :thumbsup:

JediTricks
07-14-2008, 10:33 PM
The seams on it are weird, but if the price is right, then I may get it since it looks pretty cool overall.

When does the DVD come out?What seams? The one between the base and the pedestal? Looks tight to me.

If you mean the box, that's a CG mockup.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-14-2008, 10:48 PM
What seams? The one between the base and the pedestal? Looks tight to me.

If you mean the box, that's a CG mockup.
I was referring to the lines on the back half of the skull . . . they looked like seams to me.

JediTricks
07-14-2008, 11:04 PM
Oh, the skull seams. I thought you meant for manufacturing. Those look normal to me.

Beast
08-12-2008, 09:16 AM
Looks like Oct. 14th is the DVD release date. And even better, Indy in Blu! :D

LOS ANGELES - Indiana Jones entered the atomic age in his latest movie. Now he's joining the Blu-ray era.

The blockbuster "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" arrives on DVD and Blu-ray high-definition disc Oct. 14, distributor Paramount announced Tuesday.

The first "Indiana Jones" flick in 19 years, "Crystal Skull" reunited Harrison Ford in the title role with director Steven Spielberg and executive producer George Lucas, who collaborated on the franchise's three previous installments.

The film moved the archaeologist-adventurer from the 1930s of his earlier exploits into the nuclear age of the 1950s.

"Crystal Skull" will be available on a single-disc DVD with just the film or in two-disc DVD and Blu-ray sets. Extras in the two-disc sets will include a segment on how the new movie evolved over its long development period; a production diary including glimpses of location shoots in New Mexico, Connecticut and Hawaii; and segments on makeup, visual effects and the crystal skulls at the heart of the action.

A DVD boxed set with all four movies also will be available.

Paramount and Lucasfilm have not yet announced when the first three movies will be released on Blu-ray.

"Crystal Skull" has taken in about $770 million worldwide, including $314 domestically.
Hopefully they'll release a boxset of the first three movies for Christmas 2009.

Beast
08-12-2008, 12:53 PM
Full specs are up for the DVD and Blu-Ray on DVD Active.

Reposting the Blu-Ray info and linking to the site for DVD. :D

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Paramount Home Entertainment has announced 1-disc ($29.99), 2-disc ($39.99) and Blu-ray ($39.99) releases of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull which stars Harrison Ford. Each will be available to own from the 14th October.

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: Blu-ray

Disc 1:

• Indiana Jones Timelines
- Story Timeline: Showcases the key events of the “Kingdom of the Crystal Skull” storyline.
- Production Timeline: A Making-of chronology for “Kingdom of the Crystal Skull”.
- Historical Timeline: Dives into the real-world historical influences

• The Return of a Legend - The evolution of the new film and a tribute to the legendary hero and his creators.

• Pre-Production - Follows Steven Spielberg as he creates animatic sequences, Shia LaBeouf as he learns to swordfight and captures the reunion of filmmakers and cast on the soundstage.

Disc 2:

• Production Diary: Making Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
- Shooting Begins: New Mexico (HD)
- Back To School: New Haven, Connecticut (HD)
- Welcome to the Jungle: Hilo, Hawaii (HD)
- On-Set Action (HD)
- Exploring Akator (HD)
- Wrapping Up! (HD)
• Warrior Makeup (HD)
• The Crystal Skulls (HD)
• Iconic Props (HD)
• The Effects of Indy (HD)
• Adventures in Post Production (HD)
• Closing: Team Indy (HD)
• Pre-Visualization Sequences
- Area 51 Escape (HD)
- Jungle Chase (HD)
- Ants Attack (HD)
• Galleries
• The Art Department
- The Adventure Begins
- Cemetery and Jungle
- Akator
• Stan Winston Studio
- Corpses, Skeletons & Mummies
- Aliens & Crystal Skulls
• Production Photographs
• Portraits
• Behind-the-Scenes Photographs
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull.html

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-12-2008, 02:53 PM
I never like blurbs on the front of DVD packaging, but it's not too horrible. The features sound pretty sweet.

Beast
08-12-2008, 03:02 PM
I never like blurbs on the front of DVD packaging, but it's not too horrible. The features sound pretty sweet.
Agreed. Hopefully when the first 3 come out on Blu-Ray, we'll get similar fully loaded editions.

Tycho
08-17-2008, 06:51 PM
I'm back to watching my Young Indy DVDs - Vol 3.

I am appreciating them possibly more than Crystal Skull. The documentaries are still awesome. I was just learning about Attaturk and the entire history of the Ottoman Empire - and basically, the post-Roman Empire world.

There was the Byzantine Empire seated in Constantanople (present-day Istanbul) first. It was a Eastern Orthodox Christian Empire before the Ottomans took over. They were not Muslim to begin with, but converted, yet practice religious tolerance almost for 600 years. That was changing by the time of World War One and everything around the Mediterranean and Europe was degenerating into rabid nationalism and religious persecution.

The documentary finally has some experts concluding that present-day troubles in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and that general region, as well as the Palestinian / Israeli issue, are not products of ancient rivalry, but very modern, post-World War One developments. There's good evidence supporting his case.

It was very interesting.

The world really is one retarded mess still. We are making progress - if we are to one day arrive at peace and freedom and the earth will be something like Gene Roddenberry's vision in Star Trek, but for every step forward, Iraq and Georgia are giant leaps back.

Blue2th
08-17-2008, 08:02 PM
I'm back to watching my Young Indy DVDs - Vol 3.


The world really is one retarded mess still. We are making progress - if we are to one day arrive at peace and freedom and the earth will be something like Gene Roddenberry's vision in Star Trek, but for every step forward, Iraq and Georgia are giant leaps back.

Yeah, I'm going to buy them all probably used as soon as the price goes down a bit.

That thing in Georgia, it's really about controlling a pipeline, isn't always about that? The other thing that never hits the news. :tired:

Jedi_Master_Guyute
08-17-2008, 09:33 PM
Yeah, I'm going to buy them all probably used as soon as the price goes down a bit.


My thoughts exactly; they need to drop quite a bit and then i'll buy'em. That, or I get some huge coupon or something that I could use. :thumbsup:

Tycho
08-18-2008, 01:56 AM
Maybe they'll go down in price. Maybe.

Look at Star Trek's seasons on DVD - they're always like $100 and the price never fluctuates. Mabye you get a coupon for $10 off another season if you buy the immediately previous one (Trek is Paramount also - like Jones).

So I just don't have my hopes up for you guys.

2-1B
08-21-2008, 05:28 PM
The more I (try to) think about Indy 4, the less memorable I find it.

I have no interest in ever watching this movie again. Sad.

Tycho
08-22-2008, 02:02 AM
I think that's quite rational of you, and it demonstrates taste (on your part).

Take care, Sir.

preacher
08-22-2008, 10:45 AM
The more I (try to) think about Indy 4, the less memorable I find it.

I have no interest in ever watching this movie again. Sad.

Indeed. IV was like Batman and Robin bad. And I will never watch either again.

2-1B
08-25-2008, 04:45 PM
Not that bad, definitely not B&R bad, but I just feel no desire to watch it on DVD.

Maybe my mind will change if I stumble across it again. :(

RooJay
08-26-2008, 01:20 AM
Ya know...even though I actually did enjoy Crystal Skull, I do think it could have and should have been a lot better. Still, it did deliver one hundred percent on the main thing I was hoping for - Indiana Jones! Even though it was generally a bit of a disappointment, the character is far to strong and too beloved in my opinion to have been even remotely ruined by the movie. It was really great to have Doctor Jones back and on the big screen, and I don't think any movie can diminish my enjoyment of the character himself! Honestly, they can't all be winners. Take Star Trek for example - if we hadn't suffered through the Motion Picture, The Search for Spock, The Final Frontier, and Generations then we never would have had Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, The Undiscovered Country, nor First Contact. Indiana Jones has actually even managed a better track record than that as I see it.

Tycho
08-28-2008, 02:32 PM
I just saw the Harrison Ford appearance in the Young Indiana Jones Adventures. It was in the 1950's in a car chase - about the same time frame as Crystal Skull.

It was pretty cool seeing him in action - and it was even more believeable than Crystal Skull was.

OC47150
08-28-2008, 02:51 PM
I remember that episode. It was good.

If I ever get the extra money (one day, maybe) I'd like to get the war years of the Young Indy Jones. I found those interesting. The History Channel has ran some of those episodes on Saturday mornings.

Tycho
08-28-2008, 03:59 PM
That would be Volume 2. I think that's also the first one that any store would be sold out of, were they carrying Young Indy. At least I had to go to 3 stores to find Vol. 2 and all of the ones I left empty handed from had Vol 1 and Vol 3, LOL.

OC47150
08-28-2008, 04:17 PM
There's one season 1 episode I've never seen that I want to: it's the pilot ep where Indy meets Pancho Villa.

I saw a behind the scenes special on how one scene was filmed (cutting and pasting horsemen) and have been dying to see it.

Tycho
08-28-2008, 04:26 PM
That is a great episode. That's also when he meets Remmy (spelling) - his Belgian friend that encourages him to come with him and join the Belgian Army to fight the Germans in World War One (which leads into all the action of Volume 2).

Tycho
08-30-2008, 07:14 PM
Ugggh. It's such a shame that Lucas doesn't finish what he's doing when he's actually doing something right!

The Young Indy Adventures won something like 23 Emmy Awards (or were nominated for that many and won a bunch of them). It's not like the show wasn't successful.

But they stopped!

Originally, Lucas wanted to make a story for every year leading up to Temple of Doom, the first in the films' chronology. But it stops with "Hollywood Follies" and Indy working on a western movie (with Wyatt Earp, and John Ford amongst others) while on a summer break from the University of Chicago (where he got his archeology degree).

They were also going to introduce Sallah and Belloq, and bring back Marcus Brody (Indy knew him already at this stage from their Boy Scout days in New Mexico as depicted in Last Crusade). Belloq was even Indy's friend at one point, before a betrayal when they were older, and a rivalry that turns deadly (bet it started over a girl, too!)

Anyway, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull references Indy going back to work for Military Intelligence during WWII (he was an agent of the French Intelligence in WWI - and now he will exclusively serve the United States in WWII). That is obviously a post-Crusade adventure, and with Harrison portraying a Cold War Era Indy, it would be strange to insert another actor in between Last Crusade and Crystal Skull - but the WWII era would also be an awesome era to explore in Indy's life.

Do you think Lucas messed this up? By waiting too long to do the movies with Ford?

Mad Slanted Powers
08-30-2008, 07:28 PM
I think the problem was that the series didn't do that well. I saw a lot of episodes, but there are a lot I didn't see or don't remember. It seems like it was a late season thing on ABC. This was on Wiki:


The pilot episode was aired by ABC in the United States in March 1992. The pilot, the feature-length Young Indiana Jones and the Curse of the Jackal, was later re-edited as two separate episodes, "Egypt, May 1908" and "Mexico, March 1916." Eleven further hour-long episodes were aired in 1992 (seven in the first season, four were part of the second season). Only 16 of the remaining 20 episodes were aired in 1993 when ABC cancelled the show. USA Network later broadcast the unaired episodes and also produced eight more episodes (each part of two-part television movies, making four TV movies) that were broadcast from 1994 to 1996. Though Lucas intended to produce episodes leading up to a 24-year-old Jones, the series was cancelled with the character at age 21.The first episode I remember was probably the Mexico, March 1916 one, so I probably missed the original incarnation of it.

jedibear
08-30-2008, 09:36 PM
I'm sorry to keep reading all the hate on KOTCS...makes me feel like an outsider for really liking it...I'm actually picking up a Blu-Ray player and making KOTCS my first BR disc...yes, I liked it that much.

I've been enjoying the "Young Indy" sets too...my only real complaint with then is...I wish they were in their "original" formats, with the openings featuring the edler Indy (with an eyepatch!...what a story that must've been) and Leonard Roseman's rousing opening theme (of which a small portion of can be heard on the DVD's menus)...but it's still really cool to get a chance to see these again.

jonthejedi
08-31-2008, 05:42 AM
You're not alone...my wife & I really dug KOTCS, and it's my 2nd favorite Indy to Raiders. Yes...I also wish the Young Indy boxed sets had the original, unedited versions with Old Indy & that great theme. There were(I believe on Varese Sarabande's label) three Young Indy soundtrack albums produced in the 90's.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
08-31-2008, 12:31 PM
I woudn't worry about it fellas; i too really enjoyed the film as I had already known that it wouldn't top my favorite film of the franchise, which was Last Crusade. To me, it does beat out Temple though.

For those of who have a PS2, circuit city has Lego Indy on sale for 24.99 and that means I finally got it! The other platform versions were full price though. :thumbsup:

Rocketboy
08-31-2008, 02:31 PM
I woudn't worry about it fellas; i too really enjoyed the film as I had already known that it wouldn't top my favorite film of the franchise, which was Last Crusade. To me, it does beat out Temple though.

For those of who have a PS2, circuit city has Lego Indy on sale for 24.99 and that means I finally got it! The other platform versions were full price though. :thumbsup:Is that a Labor Day sale or the regular weekly sale?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
08-31-2008, 02:47 PM
Is that a Labor Day sale or the regular weekly sale?

It's in the weekly ad and the back of it says "prices effecive 8/31-9/6." I only saw one copy when i was at my CC, but even if they're out, you can just grab an ad and have another store match it. :thumbsup:

Rocketboy
08-31-2008, 02:50 PM
That is more than likely what I'll have to do since my Circuit City rarely has advertised items in stock.

And after seeing the retarded prices on The Office Season 4, my money's goin' to Indy.

OC47150
08-31-2008, 07:16 PM
I figure ratings had something to do with it, too. And it probably wasn't a cheap show to produce, either. Going around the world to film episodes would be expensive.

Meeting a young Sallah and Belloq would've been cool.

scruffziller
09-01-2008, 11:14 AM
I'll chime in finally. I enjoyed the 50s theme and the communism awareness backdrop. The surviving the nuclear blast was great. :pleased: It seemed like a cross between Indy Jones and X Files. The nods to the other movies are what the fans wanted to see but I felt they came off gimicky. I would say it is a tie for last with Temple of Doom. To me, in this treasure hunting genre of movies, nothing will be top National Treasure 1.

JediTricks
09-02-2008, 09:46 PM
The Young Indy Adventures won something like 23 Emmy Awards (or were nominated for that many and won a bunch of them). It's not like the show wasn't successful.Except for ratings and fans, where it had neither.


They were also going to introduce Sallah and Belloq, and bring back Marcus Brody (Indy knew him already at this stage from their Boy Scout days in New Mexico as depicted in Last Crusade). Belloq was even Indy's friend at one point, before a betrayal when they were older, and a rivalry that turns deadly (bet it started over a girl, too!)Jeez, Lucas was already exhausted as a storyteller by '92? That's embarrassing. Belloq was his friend, of course! :rolleyes: And Kitster was Boba Fett and Obi-Wan's nephew, and Luke's eyes were closed when he first met Darth Vader so it didn't count...



Do you think Lucas messed this up? By waiting too long to do the movies with Ford?Lucas messed up, but that's not why.The problem seems to be that he exhausted his creativity about 10 seconds after the completion of Raiders.

OC47150
09-03-2008, 08:04 AM
I re-read the Raiders novel after seeing KOTCS. To say Indy and Belloq were friends would be an exaggeration. Acquaintances, rivals would be more appropriate.

Droid
09-04-2008, 01:26 PM
They were also going to introduce Sallah and Belloq, and bring back Marcus Brody (Indy knew him already at this stage from their Boy Scout days in New Mexico as depicted in Last Crusade). Belloq was even Indy's friend at one point, before a betrayal when they were older, and a rivalry that turns deadly (bet it started over a girl, too!)


I don't think Marcus is in the Boy Scout part of Last Crusade. The primary kid he hangs out with is named, I believe, Herman. I think there is a line "Herman's horse sick." Marcus is older than Indy and would not have been in Boy Scouts with him.

RooJay
09-05-2008, 12:53 AM
I don't think Marcus is in the Boy Scout part of Last Crusade. The primary kid he hangs out with is named, I believe, Herman. I think there is a line "Herman's horse sick." Marcus is older than Indy and would not have been in Boy Scouts with him.

Yeah, I'm with you...I never once got the impression that Brody was one of those Boy Scouts from Last Crusade. Especially considering that not one of them seemed to be British.

Is there some other material besides the movie out there that claims otherwise?

Also, I always thought Brody was not only a closer friend, but also a college classmate of Henry Sr. as evident by what I'd always assumed was the fraternity handshake they give each other inside the tank in Last Crusade.

Tycho
09-05-2008, 04:18 AM
You guys are probably right. I'll have to watch IJatLC again. But what you're saying is now registering with me as being correct.

Rocketboy
10-08-2008, 10:47 PM
Indy 4 DVD Exclusives (click for images) (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/08/dvd-exclusives-indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull/)

Circuit City - 2 Concept Art Lithographs

Best Buy - A giftset with a Sideshow Collectibles Crystal Skull and $25 coupon for SideshowCollectibles.com.
Man, that skull is freakin' sweet. I hope the set isn't too expensive.

Target - A “beautiful hard cover book from Palace Press with 80 pages of behind the scenes photos, including many never-before-published images.”
Nice looking book.

Kmart/Sears - Four Exclusive LEGO mini-posters. Each poster is a LEGO replica of the original theatrical poster from all four Indy films.
Also very cool.

Trans World - Exclusive Steelbook Packaging.
Trans World? Who?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-09-2008, 05:21 PM
Thanks for the link. I'm thinking either the Best Buy or Target ones . . . depending on the price.

Rocketboy
10-09-2008, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the link. I'm thinking either the Best Buy or Target ones . . . depending on the price.I was thinking the same thing. That skull is awesome, but the price tag may kill the purchase.

Blue2th
10-09-2008, 09:58 PM
Yeah, I'm liking that Best Buy one, and the coupon for money off at Sideshow would come in handy since I spend so much there. There again I hope it's not too expensive.

Thanks for the heads up on all this Rocketboy.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-09-2008, 10:10 PM
I was thinking the same thing. That skull is awesome, but the price tag may kill the purchase.

According to the BB website, the gift set is priced at $39.99.

No word on the Taget site about their exclusive price.

I'm leaning towards the Best buy one; or, it's on my christmas list. :thumbsup:

RooJay
10-10-2008, 12:56 AM
The Best Buy set is the same price as their Iron Man set, which I purchased this past week. You basically are paying twenty dollars for the Skull (same as the Iron Man helmet) alongside the retail of the 2-Disc Special Edition itself. If like me you are into the mini replicas anyway then they're a decent value. The Iron Man set also came with a fifty dollar Sideshow gift card which would have made it an incredible deal if their gift cards were ever usable on anything I wanted to purchase! The twenty five dollar gift card that comes with the Indy set might still be a pretty nice bonus for anyone who knows of something on Sideshow's list that they'd like to buy.

Bel-Cam Jos
10-11-2008, 09:36 AM
Indy 4 DVD Exclusives (click for images) (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/08/dvd-exclusives-indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull/)

Circuit City - 2 Concept Art Lithographs

Best Buy - A giftset with a Sideshow Collectibles Crystal Skull and $25 coupon for SideshowCollectibles.com.
Man, that skull is freakin' sweet. I hope the set isn't too expensive.

Target - A “beautiful hard cover book from Palace Press with 80 pages of behind the scenes photos, including many never-before-published images.”
Nice looking book.

Kmart/Sears - Four Exclusive LEGO mini-posters. Each poster is a LEGO replica of the original theatrical poster from all four Indy films.
Also very cool.

Trans World - Exclusive Steelbook Packaging.
Trans World? Who?Dang! I was hoping to get the k-skull, but that book sounds awesome. The question is: do I let the persuasive powers of the treasure warp my mind, or let the power of reading and knowledge enrich me? Do I buy both? :eek: I hope to not hear: "he has chosen... poorly." :dead:

Tycho
10-11-2008, 05:45 PM
Hmmm. I just want a simple DVD for around $20. That seems to be too much to ask for. Perhaps I'll wait long past the initial release and just get the basic thing later.

I'm not sure that I liked this movie enough to want collectibles from it. But yeah, it's starting to warm up to me.

I saw it twice in the theaters and I've always liked Harrison Ford.

Beast
10-11-2008, 07:32 PM
Re: Transworld Entertainment. They own FYE, Suncoast, etc.

It's a shame the Blu-Ray isn't getting the Crystal Skull with it at Best Buy. Well, unless you live in Canada. Then you can. Bah! I'll probably get it at Target, the book looks pretty keen. I'm tempted by the FYE Steelbook.

Here's the prices at the various stores, by the way.

Best Buy:

Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull $14.99
Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull – 2 Disc Special Edition $22.99
Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull – 2 Disc Special Gift Set $39.99
Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull Blu-Ray $26.99
(Free small bag of M&M's with any purchase of Indy IV.)

Circuit City:

Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull $13.99
Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull – 2 Disc Special Edition $22.99
Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull Blu-Ray $29.99

Target:

Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull $15.99
Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull – Deluxe Edition $22.99
Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull Blu-Ray $27.99

Indiana Jones 4: Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull – Battle Pack Toy Set $15.99
(Free $5 Target Gift Card if you buy Indy IV DVD and the Battle Pack)

Ji'dai
10-12-2008, 08:36 AM
Got the Adventurer's Special from Papa Johns last night. The pizzas come in an Indiana Jones box and have $3-off coupons for the DVD.

Unless WM has some type of deal with the Commemorative figure packs, I'm going to get my copy at Kmart. I like the LEGO posters. Hopefully you get all four instead of just one or some type of Hobson's choice by an employee.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-12-2008, 10:02 AM
Target's exclusive is 22.99, so it looks like the book doesn't add any extra $$.

Also, best buy has ALL volumes of young Indy on "sale" for $49.99 each. I still want those sets, but 50+ bucks each is still way too steep for me. I'll wait till they slide down even more........or I can have a friend burn them for me. hehehehehe

I'm still debating about which I want. I have no need for the Sideshow coupon (hell, if somebody here wants it, you can buy it off me?) and it is 20 extra bucks. I like the idea of the book though. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Blue2th
10-13-2008, 06:24 PM
Think I'm going for the Best Buy one early tomorrow. The skull looks cool, and I'll use that $25 Sideshow coupon to knock some off the price on the Utapau Clone Trooper which I was going to get.

Those Young Indy sets look tempting too JMG.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-13-2008, 07:46 PM
I've decided to hit the BB gift set too. I figure somebody is bound to scan the pages from the target book and I really want that skull replica. :thumbsup:

I know, B2! If i had 170 bucks to kill, i'd be all over them, but alas, I don't. :(

Blue2th
10-13-2008, 08:20 PM
I've decided to hit the BB gift set too. I figure somebody is bound to scan the pages from the target book and I really want that skull replica. :thumbsup:

I know, B2! If i had 170 bucks to kill, i'd be all over them, but alas, I don't. :(

You might be thinking about the Medicom ones. The SS one is $90, which is still pricey, but with $25 off is $65.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-13-2008, 08:43 PM
You might be thinking about the Medicom ones. The SS one is $90, which is still pricey, but with $25 off is $65.

I was referring to the Young Indy DVD sets! :thumbsup:

Blue2th
10-13-2008, 10:29 PM
I was referring to the Young Indy DVD sets! :thumbsup:

Ouch!!!!!!

Rocketboy
10-13-2008, 11:56 PM
When I bought Iron Man at Best Buy they had these little movie booklets that shows what it coming out for the month. The last page of the book had a 10% off any DVD coupon that I was able to use right then, so keep an eye out for it and save $4 on the Crystal Skull set.
:thumbsup:

RooJay
10-14-2008, 01:50 AM
You might be thinking about the Medicom ones. The SS one is $90, which is still pricey, but with $25 off is $65.

Last I checked the Sideshow 12" Indy wasn't on the approved Gift Card list - a lot of folks might not know this, but there are only a small number of select items on which you can use Sideshow Gift Cards. Almost all of it seems to be stuff no one really wants or can afford (remember how I mentioned that the gift cards cannot be combined?) judging by the length of time most of that stuff has been on the list. That's how they getcha!

On a side note, last weeks South Park premiere had some interesting and thoroughly hilarious things to say about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull! Anyone else see it?

Rocketboy
10-14-2008, 09:26 AM
In an email from Borders it says they have an exclusive fedora with the DVD.
Doesn't say what size, but I'm assuming its a mini fedora or something and not an actual hat.

Blue2th
10-14-2008, 09:50 AM
Last I checked the Sideshow 12" Indy wasn't on the approved Gift Card list - a lot of folks might not know this, but there are only a small number of select items on which you can use Sideshow Gift Cards. Almost all of it seems to be stuff no one really wants or can afford (remember how I mentioned that the gift cards cannot be combined?) judging by the length of time most of that stuff has been on the list. That's how they getcha!



Aarg! Guess I need to read the fine print. What's the point if I can't use it on a SW pre-order. Though I want that skull.
It's probably limited to "items in stock" or something like that. :(

Beast
10-14-2008, 01:10 PM
Picked up the set at Target today. Sorta annoyed that the discs are right in the book. But it's a realy nice set otherwise. Grabbed the Blu-Ray for $27.99. Already watched the movie, even better than the theater. Booyah!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-14-2008, 02:38 PM
Picked up the set at Target today. Sorta annoyed that the discs are right in the book. But it's a realy nice set otherwise. Grabbed the Blu-Ray for $27.99. Already watched the movie, even better than the theater. Booyah!

Nice owrk Binksy!!

and now, if you could be a lamb and start scanning the pictures from the book and e-mail them to me, i'd appreciate it. :p

Beast
10-14-2008, 03:14 PM
Nice owrk Binksy!!

and now, if you could be a lamb and start scanning the pictures from the book and e-mail them to me, i'd appreciate it. :p
Heh. Don't have a scanner my friend. Sorry.

Rocketboy
10-14-2008, 07:12 PM
I grabbed the Best Buy Skull set.
That 10% coupon I mentioned last night didn't work.
Ah well, I'm digging the skull anyway.

Beast
10-14-2008, 07:33 PM
I grabbed the Best Buy Skull set.
That 10% coupon I mentioned last night didn't work.
Ah well, I'm digging the skull anyway.
Yeah. The 10% coupons from Best Buy arn't good on New Releases or Sale Prices.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-14-2008, 07:36 PM
How big is the skull?

Ji'dai
10-14-2008, 09:11 PM
I got the 2-disc version from Kmart. The LEGO posters are pretty neat, but are small and are folded in half and shrinkwrapped with the DVD. I put them in comic bags with backer boards to keep them flat. Kmart also had $5 off any Indy toy purchase of $10 or more when you buy the DVD, so I got another German soldier with motorcycle.

Also picked up the blu-ray edition at Circuit City as a christmas present for my brother. Although the weekly ad says both 2-disc and blu-ray come with the lithographs, only the 2-disc standard version has them shrinkwrapped with the DVD set. The manager opened a standard set and gave me the lithographs out of it when I bought the blu-ray version though.

Rocketboy
10-14-2008, 10:28 PM
Yeah. The 10% coupons from Best Buy arn't good on New Releases or Sale Prices.I used in on Iron Man a few weeks ago. I figured it was because it was a "gift set."


How big is the skull? Thats what she said.
The skull itself is 4 to 4 1/2 inches from front to back. The base is about 2 1/2 inches tall.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-14-2008, 10:47 PM
Hmm, that's a little small (that's what she said). I'd like to see it in person first, I guess.

Blue2th
10-16-2008, 10:33 AM
Got my "Kingdom of the Plexi-skull" the other day.
Sideshow has a list of what you can buy with the gift card. Everything is kinda underwhelming. Hmm, I might buy a pack of cards. :rolleyes:

jonthejedi
10-16-2008, 01:57 PM
Anyone find any Easter Eggs yet on Indy DVD?

Bel-Cam Jos
10-16-2008, 07:52 PM
No time to watch, Dr. Jones... yet. Scanning through the book from Target, it looks cool (the discs are inside the book's front cover).

2-1B
10-19-2008, 08:00 PM
Anyone find any Easter Eggs yet on Indy DVD?

I heard there is a good movie somewhere on the DVD but I haven't found it yet.
Just kidding. :D

I got the Target set, I agree that the execution of the books is goofy with the discs being a part of it. Neat package overall, though.

I posted awhile back that I wasn't interested in ever seeing this flick again but I got the DVD and it is growing on me. :)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-19-2008, 08:02 PM
Could someone please post a picture of the Best Buy crystal skull either in package or next to the DVD for size reference, and also a picture of how the DVDs are put into the Target book? I'll be getting this for my birthday and still haven't decided on which one to get.

Rocketboy
10-19-2008, 08:48 PM
Could someone please post a picture of the Best Buy crystal skull either in package or next to the DVD for size reference, and also a picture of how the DVDs are put into the Target book? I'll be getting this for my birthday and still haven't decided on which one to get.Side by side with The Deuce.
Crappy cell phone pic, but you get the idea.

2-1B
10-19-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm too lazy to photograph my DVD from Target since it's upstairs but this is a close look...think of those clear plastic inlays for DVDs, with one disc nested above the other one, and they are inside the front cover of the book which slides out of that slipcover.

I like the Target set the best because it feels a little more classy, almost like a mini box set since it has the book. Plus it's much thicker than the standard keepcase you get with the other ones. Looks kinda cool next to the 4 disc Indy box set from 4 or 5 years ago.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/08/dvd-exclusives-indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull/

Also, the book includes a forward by Harrison Ford and some other pages of text to go with all those photos.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-19-2008, 10:19 PM
Thanks to the both of you b*tches. Hmm . . . I'm still not sure, though . . .

Tycho
10-26-2008, 04:35 AM
I just bought the regular Indy DVD. I think I might stay up really late this morning and watch it. Dunno.

But I didn't want any extra junk with any movie, so I bought one-disc, stripped down to bare-basics DVDs of Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Tycho
10-26-2008, 07:46 PM
I really enjoyed this movie for my first time. I saw it twice in the theater and was disappointed.

Now when I knew what to expect, I just sat back and really liked this one.

Go figure. But I want to watch it again, even.

A good DVD purchase!

LTBasker
10-26-2008, 08:54 PM
We got it yesterday and I gave it a watch, this is my second viewing as we only saw it once in theaters. I was hoping I would like it a little better the second time around, but I didn't. I didn't dislike it anymore than I already did though. Despite my ill feelings about it's CGI gratuity, lack of logic, and bits of cheesy dialouge that you can feel the imprint of Lucas' autograph, I still feel it's better than ToD.

Few things:
- The opening is far more enjoyable when skipping the "WE MADE AMERICAN GRAFFITI!!!!" sequence
- 2-3 Russian soldiers stop and wait for Indy to climb onto the top of a crate before they start firing during the Area 51 escape
- Mac was such a pointless addition, and should have died during the Area 51 escape
- I just noticed unlike the other films, Indy never really kills anyone except for the Cemetary Warrior - whom "shot" first.

preacher
10-27-2008, 02:07 PM
Rented it from a Redbox kiosk for a buck because my wife had never seen it. She lost total interest after the atom bomb scene.

I hated it more the second time.

A rip off even for a buck. Won't be adding it to my collection.

Droid
10-28-2008, 02:34 PM
I still haven't seen it and am glad for my choice.

I was in Walmart yesterday and they were running it. I saw thirty seconds of the scene at the atom bomb testing site without the sound off. I know they were going for a fish out of water gag having Indy in the "suburbs", but to me it just seemed like it wasn't Indiana Jones. It seemed like Lucas and Spielberg got together and cobbled together a script of sequences that originated by one of them saying, "You know what would be funny?"

preacher
10-28-2008, 05:13 PM
My condolensces Droid for you even seeing that much of the atrocity. The atom bomb scene is just lame.

2-1B
01-31-2009, 12:35 AM
I finally watched it for a 2nd time and it was better than when I saw it in the theater...but not outstanding. Probably my 3rd fave in the series after TOD and ROTLA.

I think it's better than TLC, at least.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-31-2009, 12:37 AM
I got The Making of Indiana Jones for Christmas and finally finished it yesterday. It's quite fascinating and fun. Now I really want to rewatch all four!

Beast
02-03-2009, 08:59 AM
Good news!!

There's been some unconfirmed rumors and quickly pulled news stories about this, but it's finally been confirmed. The Indy Trilogy is headed to Blu-Ray later this year!! Which means we may see something Star Wars in 2010.

From The Digital Bits:

Good news for you Indy fans... our industry sources have confirmed that the planned Indiana Jones Trilogy Blu-ray release this holiday season is the real deal. Look for it in the 4th quarter, obviously from Paramount and Lucasfilm.

Ji'dai
02-03-2009, 10:10 AM
I hope Lucas resists the urge to update the special effects. I think he already changed the cliff scene during the desert chase in Raiders.

I don't know if I'll get these on Blu-ray. I've got the standard def. box set and the A/V receiver I'm looking to buy will upscale to HD from a standard def. source.

Plus I'd really like to avoid buying any more DVDs if discs just become obsolete in a few years. I want to avoid the big VHS (and LaserDisc) collection I accumulated in the past.

pbarnard
02-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Good news!!

There's been some unconfirmed rumors and quickly pulled news stories about this, but it's finally been confirmed. The Indy Trilogy is headed to Blu-Ray later this year!! Which means we may see something Star Wars in 2010.

From The Digital Bits:

Good news for you Indy fans... our industry sources have confirmed that the planned Indiana Jones Trilogy Blu-ray release this holiday season is the real deal. Look for it in the 4th quarter, obviously from Paramount and Lucasfilm.

Careful what you wish for because you may just get it.

I'm already waiting for the complaints about how this and that wasn't included. Special Features, blah blah blah. You whined and cried and got it released. Than for getting what you want, you complain about what was included in it?

plasticfetish
02-03-2009, 01:22 PM
Indy on Blue Ray? Big shock there.

And even less of a surprise to know that several dozen versions of the Star Wars sextuplits will eventually be released. Blue Ray... Purple Ray... Pink Ray... Manta Ray... Ray Manzarek... I'm done with buying anything to own at this point if there's even a slight chance that it'll just be re-released a year later.

I'd say uncle George officially broke me of my DVD buying habit.

El Chuxter
02-03-2009, 01:24 PM
Does the Ray Manzarek Edition feature "Light My Fire" during the funeral pyre scenes in TPM and ROTJ?

Rocketboy
02-03-2009, 01:32 PM
Does the Ray Manzarek Edition feature "Light My Fire" during the funeral pyre scenes in TPM and ROTJ?No. That would require Manzarek not saying "Jim Morrison" for 60 seconds.

2-1B
02-03-2009, 06:42 PM
I bet they released it as a 4 pack only, which would serve 2 purposes:

1) Force people who already bought KOTCS on BluRay to buy it again.
2) Force purists who disliked KOTCS to purchase it in the first place.

plasticfetish
02-03-2009, 07:58 PM
No, they'll probably release them both as a "special" set including KrOTChS, and individually. We are talking about George Lucas and Steven Spielberg here. If there's any way to turn a buck off something, then they'll do it. I even hear that they're thinking about going back in time to release the Indiana Jones soundtracks on wax cylinder recordings. Crank it up!!! (Literally.)

JediTricks
02-06-2009, 05:56 PM
I dunno if I'm gonna bother. For some reason, I don't seem tempted to watch the DVDs all that often, and I don't have a big enough TV to really enjoy the films the way they were meant to be. This is a toughy though because once I do go HD, they'll look pretty weak on it, even upscaled on my PS3.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-06-2009, 08:07 PM
I don't have any plans to get a Blu Ray player anytime soon. Not until it gets to the point where you can't get regular DVD's anymore, or there is a Star Wars release that I really want.

TeeEye7
04-04-2009, 06:36 PM
Better late than never:

I picked up KOTCS at Target a few days ago and finally watched it.

Put me in the "luke-warm" column, folks. I wasn't exactly disappointed, but I wasn't exactly thrilled, either.

Tycho
04-04-2009, 07:15 PM
I've been playing the Lego Video Games and it makes me want to re-watch the entire series.

I own Young Indiana Jones as well. Who knows how much I'll be tempted to watch Indy?

Glad you liked KOTCS. Raiders and Last Crusade are the best of the films though. However, I think I appreciate Temple of Doom more than some others here.

TeeEye7
04-04-2009, 07:55 PM
Raiders and Last Crusade are the best of the films though.

That's exactly my assessment, too, Tycho. It's hard to surpass Raiders, and the Ford/Connery chemistry in Last Crusade was nothing short of magic IMO.

Bel-Cam Jos
04-05-2009, 09:28 AM
If we're gonna list 'em... [lists... drool]

BEL-CAM'S TOP TEN, ER, FIVE :confused: INDIANA JONES FILMS
10. ?
9. ?
8. ?
7. ?
6. ?
5. Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark (this should not be, but it is :upset: )
4. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (I know this is blasphemy to some, but I just never saw it in theaters, so it only has a video/cable vibe on me, sorry)
3. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (fun, decent story)
2. Raiders of the Lost Ark (classic, 'nuff said)
1. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (just a great punch-'em-out, scre-'em-all, white-knuckle-hold-on type of story)

TeeEye7
04-05-2009, 09:47 AM
10. ?
9. ?
8. ?
7. ?
6. ?


Perhaps the door is opened for Shia LeBouf to continue the series?

Tycho
04-05-2009, 01:10 PM
I think they should re-cast Indy - perhaps complete Christian Bale's rise to total stardom (as if Bruce Wayne and John Connor aren't enough), and when Bale is OLDER, have him play Indy during WWII.

I want to see the time in Indy's life between Last Crusade and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Apparently, he worked for US Army Intelligence (or was it the US Navy?).

They mention it in KotCS when Indy's loyalty is questioned as our government goes paranoid looking for Communists. One of the military guys defends Indy, citing his duty to the United States during WWII.

Christian (Bruce, John) Bale is my new favorite actor. Plus I love the way he can $#@#!!~ out any DP on the set of his m-fn movies. "Tough Guy" could easily be Indiana Jones, or if necessary, an older Mutt Williams.

But what would they do with Mutt in that timeline's future? Vietnam? I think I've been watching Sylvester Stalone do that.

They could do Mutt Williams in the Persian Gulf War (1990). He could discover previously never-before-heard tracks from Nirvana before Kurt Cobaine died. :rolleyes:

Mutt would be in his 60's by the 1990's though. There could be hope for Christian Bale's later work towards retirement.

Let's see: Mutt Williams will be in his 50's during the 1980's where he could discover Michael Jackson was once a black man. The very notion that he was once even a man could make a phenonmenal movie.

He'd be in his 40's in the 1970's (close to Christian Bale's age when he could shoot this). I can see it now: Mutt Williams and the Magic Dragon! The dragon would be the kind that puffs smoke if you know what I mean.

He'd be in his 30's in the 1960's. He could work behind the scenes to discover the plot behind the Kennedy assasinations and that of Hoffa and Martin Luther King, Jr. all the while, romancing a young Barbara Streisand (played by Miley Cyrus).

But I rather like the idea of using Christian Bale as he is today and having him play Indy in his 40's in the 1940's during WWII.

Or you could have Shia LeBouf play his own father, and make the WII movies with him as Indy in about 20 more years from now. By that time, with George Lucas his 80's, everything will really be all mixed up and Indy will fight the North Koreans in WW4. :rolleyes:

Of course if you have Christian Bale in the role, he can $@#$!-out Lucas and Spielberg, and "at last, we will have revenge!"

Ji'dai
04-05-2009, 03:35 PM
If we're gonna list 'em... [lists... drool]

BEL-CAM'S TOP TEN, ER, FIVE :confused: INDIANA JONES FILMS
10. ?
9. ?
8. ?
7. ?
6. ?
5. Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark (this should not be, but it is :upset: )
4. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (I know this is blasphemy to some, but I just never saw it in theaters, so it only has a video/cable vibe on me, sorry)
3. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (fun, decent story)
2. Raiders of the Lost Ark (classic, 'nuff said)
1. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (just a great punch-'em-out, scre-'em-all, white-knuckle-hold-on type of story)

10. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
9. ?
8. ?
7. Indiana Jones and The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor
6. Indiana Jones and the Stargate
5. Indiana Jones and The Fifth Element
4. Indiana Jones and The Mummy
3. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
2. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
1. Raiders of the Lost Ark

JediTricks
04-07-2009, 06:37 PM
Recasting Indy would be about as well-received as making another sequel to Attack of the Killer Tomatoes.

Bel-Cam Jos
04-07-2009, 07:14 PM
Recasting Indy would be about as well-received as making another sequel to Attack of the Killer Tomatoes.Would that be Revenge of the Squished? :D

preacher
04-08-2009, 02:25 PM
Recasting Indy would be about as well-received as making another sequel to Attack of the Killer Tomatoes.

In a world where "Joust" the movie could become a reality, and a new Three Stooges movie is in the works (with Jim Carry and Sean Penn), an Attack of the Killer Tomatoes sequel may happen.

JT, you need to watch you say man! You never know who in Hollywood might be reading!

JediTricks
04-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Oh, I don't doubt they COULD do it, I was talking about how well it'd be received. The studios can churn out buckets of crap every day, but the audience is ultimately responsible for their continuation or lack thereof.

Mad Slanted Powers
04-08-2009, 07:18 PM
Oh, I don't doubt they COULD do it, I was talking about how well it'd be received. The studios can churn out buckets of crap every day, but the audience is ultimately responsible for their continuation or lack thereof.I bet a movie called "Buckets of Crap" would do pretty well.

Bel-Cam Jos
04-09-2009, 09:37 PM
I bet a movie called "Buckets of Crap" would do pretty well.Directors? Farrelly Bros. Star? Kevin James. Budget? $85 M. Openign week gross? $47 M. Months to DVD? 2 1/2. :p

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-15-2009, 09:59 AM
I rewatched KOTCS a few weeks ago and still really enjoyed it. My only gripe is still that freakin' vine swinging scene. Meh!

And I found some custom DVD art to keep KOTCS in tune with the other dark brown-esque style DVD's. Anybody know where I can find more? My only gripe is that it seems to be UK based and has that large red circle on it.

Tycho
04-15-2009, 08:15 PM
I wished they'd made action figures from the monkey-swinging scene!

There could be all kinds of different monkeys :crazed:

They could come with pack-in trees with vines.

Then collectors could create a whole forest full of monkeys in the trees!

Then the vine-cutter toy could crash through the forest and chop up the monkeys!

Then they could come out with the Majarah from Temple of Doom with chilled-monkey brains dessert as an accessory!

JediTricks
04-17-2009, 04:47 PM
I bet a movie called "Buckets of Crap" would do pretty well."Indiana Jones and the Buckets of Crap", oh wait, we saw that movie already last year. :p