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View Full Version : At present, how do you think you'll feel about Episode 3?



Tycho
10-21-2003, 01:25 PM
There's no spoilers allowed in this thread.

The new movie is about a year and 7 months away.

Some of you have read the spoilers, and some of you know only what Lucasfilm's determined is O.K. to let leak.

Still, others of you have just been unable to not speculate on what the movie will bring, knowing nothing but the information you have from having seen Episodes 4, 5, and 6.

Finally, many of you have opinions about where the Star Wars saga has traveled with the hindsight of having seen Episodes 1 and 2.

At this time, how do you expect to feel about Episode 3?

plo koon 200
10-21-2003, 01:59 PM
I've heard some crazy stuff and if it is real I think it will be on par with the rest of sequels despite what we know about a certain characters apperance that I'm really looking forward to.

If what I heard on TFN is not true then I think we are in for one heck of a movie.

bobafrett
10-21-2003, 02:22 PM
I think there should be an "undecided" catagory in thr poll. I have no clue if it will be better, the same, or worse than the other Star Wars films. I try to avoid reading anything about the next film, so I have no opinion on the subject, therefore I am undecided.

angellus
10-21-2003, 03:29 PM
I think Episode 3 will be awful, regardless of whether all the rumors are true or not. Lucas is more concerned with visuals than telling a compelling story and these new films are suffering because of it. Look at it this way: everyone's chief complaint about Episode 1 was the inclusion of Jar Jar. So Jar Jar barely appeared in Episode 2 and it was STILL sub-par. And the reason for that is these new films lack what made the original films (notice I said "original" and not "Special Editions") so wonderful: a great and timeless story, memorable dialogue, and character development. What's more, the visuals look way too clean and computer generated, which is pathetic coming from a man who once said CGI should be used as a tool to achieve what filmmakers otherwise could not. You mean to tell me Jar Jar couldn't have been a guy in a costume? Or the Clones? Even the behind-the-scenes material pales in comparison to the original films! I remember being fascinated as a child learning how they filmed the Battle of Hoth. Now all Lucas has to say is, "Every element in this shot—other than Obi-Wan's ear and Padme's left breast—is CGI." It's really sad, considering how incredible the story of the fall of Anakin Skywalker could have been. Instead, Lucas has only succeeded in raping my inner child. I'm left wondering if he conceived the original trilogy by accident—Or maybe it was those darn Midichlorians...

Darth Durden
10-21-2003, 04:03 PM
I agree whole-heartedly, one hundred percent with what Angellus said. I used to be a complete Star Wars freak, but not so much now, and it can be directly blamed on the prequels. I know there are some of you out there who think that Lucas can do no wrong, because that's how I felt for a long time. But the bottom line is that the prequals have completely destroyed what could have been the ultimate saga. Thanks Uncle George for taking our money and leaving us with a big steaming pile on our door step. The acting in these movies is AWEFUL. Especially both Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen were the worst actors I have seen put in such major roles. Looks like Georgie decided to put all his money in the CG than in talented actors. Making the movies 95% CG was the worst thing Lucas could have done. And the sad part is that it's not even good CG. Look at the Lord of the Rings movies, now there's some good CG. He should have been more loyal to what the fans wanted instead of making an ILM test reel that's 2+ hours long. I used to collect the Star Wars figures as well, but now I just don't want to, I just keep checking this site to see what's coming out, but I no longer have any intention to buy because they're just not worth it. SHAME ON YOU GEORGE LUCAS FOR GIVING THE FINGER TO YOUR FANS AND RUINING SOMETHING WE LOVED!!

derek
10-21-2003, 04:39 PM
why did stillakid register two new user names to post the above two replies? :D ...........just joking stilla! :crazed:

InsaneJediGirl
10-21-2003, 05:01 PM
I am undecided,but voted it will be about par with the prequels,possibly a bit better.If I think of the prequels as a scale of good-to-bad,with TPM equalling bad,AOTC equalling so-so..my theory is E3 should be better:)


Instead, Lucas has only succeeded in raping my inner child.

Better call the cops,thats a felony :eek:

Kidhuman
10-21-2003, 06:54 PM
Well, I am looking foward to it. It will be our last SW movie.I hope he doesnt shatter all expectations.

Mandalorian Candidat
10-21-2003, 07:24 PM
While the first two prequels were somewhat disappointing to me, I remain optimistic that G.Lu will be able to crank out a decent finale. The potential is there for EP3 to be the best of the six, but it will only turn out that way if 1) he takes constructive criticism on his storywriting like he had with EP4 and EP5, 2) doesn't surround himself exclusively with yes men, and 3) makes the movie fun like the first (or should I say last) three were.

I've stayed away from spoilers so I don't know what all is purportedly happening, but G.Lu needs to make the story and action fun and thrilling. Heck, ESB was dark but it was exciting and had a thriller edge to it.

skeeziks22
10-21-2003, 07:49 PM
There will be a lot more left undone than i had thought before Phantom Menace came out. I thought the Saga would be nearly completeonce these three movies were complete. EI nearly nothing happened (anakin shows up, and the sith are uncovered). EII more happened, but still just the beginning of the clone wars. The cartoons will help stretch that war out (as the books and comics do now). I don't know where EIII will end (will we have twins?)... but there should still be about 20 years in between EIII and EIV... leaves a lot of room for good novels... cartoons or even a tv series...

I think EIII COULD be the best of the saga, but I doubt it will. I think there will be too many explosions and battles... and not enough head games like the original three (let's torture Leia and blow up her home world and kill Luke's family... then we torture and freeze Han and tell Luke who daddy is... then finally we have the face of of father v. son) EIII has the potential to be the most tragic, and most psychologically disturbing (at least for the characters) of the saga... let's hope it is.

Val Da Car
10-21-2003, 09:51 PM
Maybe he is get the special effects and combat out of his system with the Clone Wars cartoons (I know some ppl hate fodder that relates to EU but oh well) but I hope he can balance the midpoint of the story arc with special effects without HAMSCREWING it up.

I think he is so sensitive to telling the story that there will be reshoots until the last 3 months before the movie comes out in 2005 (along with the Transformers movie that Hasbro has sanctioned).

I get this from the Autograph my wife got from Peter Mayhew (Chicago Comic Con) and he stated that he is going to Austraila in March of 2004 for filming his scene. What are they going to do with him...copy and paste him on screen 100 times over (like Agent Smith in Matrix Reloaded) for the movies?

bobafrett
10-21-2003, 10:34 PM
Thank you for adding the "undecided" catagory!

jedihunter25
10-21-2003, 10:55 PM
I think it will be my favorite SW movie. The only thing that bothers me (from what I heard) about it is..........well, I can't say, this is a no spoilers thread!!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-21-2003, 11:00 PM
I think it's going to be positively awesome. I loved both of the prequels (I think that makes me 1 of 35 people who loved both of them :D) and i think that Episode III is going to be comparable to ESB in its dark tone and storytelling. So much is supposed to happen and from what i've read it's going to be pretty exciting.
I must say that a solemn tear will fall when the movie ends and the screen cuts to that vacant shot of space and the words "DIRECTED BY GEORGE LUCAS" come up. For it will be a hella depressing film due to its content and the fact that's it's the last SW ever. :D

RussUAE
10-22-2003, 12:38 AM
I adore the prequels - I think it comes from the fact that we've seen so much more of the star wars galaxy.

I've so far avoided all spoilers, so am incredibly excited about EpIII - definitely the potential to be the best star wars film.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-22-2003, 01:30 AM
I am sure I will enjoy Episode III. I liked the other five movies, so why should this one be any different? I guess I was one of the few that thought Episode I was great. I liked it better than Episode II. Maybe the prequels don't compare to the original trilogy, but with all those years for people to build the movies up in their minds, it is understandable that many people would be disappointed. On the other hand, I didn't know what to expect. I was just a fan who wanted to know what happened to make things the way they are in Episode IV. After 16 years, we finally got a new Star Wars movie, and I thought it was a great way to start the saga.

I was recently rewatching the Bill Moyers "Mythology of Star Wars" interview with George Lucas. If you haven't seen it, I would recommend it. There were also some great editorials on TheForce.Net. I would recommend these as well: Why I Loved Episode I (http://theforce.net/jedicouncil/editorials/093001.shtml) , Episode I is Star Wars (http://theforce.net/jedicouncil/editorials/100201.shtml), and Why Episode I is Brilliant (http://theforce.net/jedicouncil/editorials/100401.shtml). There also used to be a great article called "The Case for Jar Jar", but it doesn't seem to be there anymore. I did save a copy of that for anyone who might want to read it. All of these sources do a great job of explaining why these prequels are better than many people give them credit for.

2-1B
10-22-2003, 01:41 AM
I don't expect to like it more than AOTC because I really love the main characters (Ani, Padme, Obi) and I don't want to see what's about to come. :cry:

Regarding the details of the movie, there are some unconfirmed spoilers which sound REALLY cool and some unconfirmed spoilers which sound REALLY lame.
I can't make an honest prediction as to how good or bad it will be because I don't know if what I've heard is true or not (I expect most of it is bogus ;) ).
However I do really like Hayden, Natalie, Ewan, and much of the rest of the cast so I expect I'll find much to like about the movie. Just not as much as AOTC . . . but I could be wrong. :D

Tycho
10-22-2003, 11:43 AM
There will be a lot more left undone than i had thought before Phantom Menace came out. I thought the Saga would be nearly completeonce these three movies were complete. EI nearly nothing happened (anakin shows up, and the sith are uncovered). EII more happened, but still just the beginning of the clone wars. The cartoons will help stretch that war out (as the books and comics do now). I don't know where EIII will end (will we have twins?)... but there should still be about 20 years in between EIII and EIV... leaves a lot of room for good novels... cartoons or even a tv series...

I think EIII COULD be the best of the saga, but I doubt it will. I think there will be too many explosions and battles... and not enough head games like the original three (let's torture Leia and blow up her home world and kill Luke's family... then we torture and freeze Han and tell Luke who daddy is... then finally we have the face of of father v. son) EIII has the potential to be the most tragic, and most psychologically disturbing (at least for the characters) of the saga... let's hope it is.

I agree with Skeezik's hope for E3, however I disagree that the prequels set so little up:

EPISODE ONE showed how Palpatine manipulated the corporate greed of the Trade Federation to come to power as Supreme Chancellor - and yes, it did show that the Sith were operating behind the scenes, and let Anakin be discovered. That Qui-Gon was involved, and that he was Dooku's apprentice, may yet have deeper meaning. I don't know anything about that, but Lucas should take advantage of all the possibilities it sets up to surprise us with something in E3, with all kinds of answers to new questions that have arisen, including Anakin's dubious birth. But the establishment of his mother as a character who's loss you relate better to, having known her, was also necessary to bring out Anakin's believable rage against the Tuskens, and start him on his path to resenting the Jedi (as was his independent way of trying to excell by himself, leading to his podracing championship as well as his impatience with Obi-Wan). And he met Padme.

EPISODE TWO really showed how Palpatine manipulated a crisis he created (with Dooku) to get him emergency powers and command of a huge Clone Army. I mean that was one key point. Part of the story had to deal with Obi-Wan's discovery of the army, where they came from, and how Palpatine legally maneuvered to accomplish this. Not to mention that the Rebellion against Palpatine's administration has started with the Separatists, but we've always seen a Rebellion against Palpatine in all but 1 SW movie. Some developments could be logically hypothesized. The other thing E2 did was explode Anakin's attitude with Obi-Wan, based on his need to achieve, and how he turns that into goals of protecting those he loves (his Mom, Padme, and even Obi-Wan who he attempts to rescue), and where he fails he loses control and the ability to emotionally hold himself together: disobeying Obi-Wan's order to stay on Naboo, Mace's order to stay on Tatooine, broken next, and charging Count Dooku, ignoring any inclination of using teamwork against him, because Anakin was mad he got captured in trying to rescue Obi-Wan (who seemed ungrateful) and Padme got caught in the line of fire and then possibly severely injured by falling out of the gunship Dooku had his escorts attack.


All the character intrigue is actually back, IMO, if Palpatine will be brilliantly revealed in how he manipulated all these things to happen, including Anakin's fall. The other issue in it is what the Jedi Council knows, and Obi-Wan and the other main characters (not on the Council) do not. There seems to be subtle hints with the looks that Mace and Yoda give each other, and the way they react to Palpatine.

Lucas could really impress us with Episode 3, and I think it will change the way a lot of you look at Episodes 1 and 2, thereafter.

jedi master sal
10-22-2003, 12:34 PM
I think this movie is going to ROCK! It definitely will be the best of the Prequels and better than one or two of the originals, IMO.

No secret in saying this that the fight between Obi-wan and Anakin should be amazing.

(Here's a little theory-not based on any rumors or spoilers-but just a theory)
During their battle, Obi-wan activates the "slave" device that was refered to in EPI. It can be said that this was never removed just deactivated. Then during the battle it goes off. This would partially explain him being, "more machine than man", now. Regardless if the battle takes place in or around Lava as we've been told for oh these many years. Only the Force is keeping him alive and Palpatine should be the one to recue him. Thereby sealing their relationship and Anakin's hatred towards the Jedi.

Just a theory I came up with.

angellus
10-22-2003, 01:58 PM
You can't really say "nothing was set up by the prequels," but I don't blame people for feeling cheated by what has been set up thus far. Yes, we've seen Palpatine manipulating everything and planting the seeds of the Empire, but the larger and more important story here is the fall of Anakin Skywalker. And to me, Lucas has dropped the ball at every turn so far.

First of all, why does he have to be nine years-old in Episode I? Lucas argues he wanted to show Anakin's inherent goodness, but this could have easily been portrayed through his actions as a young adult the same way Luke's goodness was in A New Hope. Couldn't the prequels have begun with Anakin a young man and already serving as Obi-Wan's apprentice? Couldn't the backstory about his being taken from his mother and possessing a dark side have come out in the dialogue? No, of course not; Lucas couldn't sell as many backpacks and Podracer video games that way.

So now instead of an appealing hero, we've got a little kid who demonstrates his tremendous potential for using the Force by destroying the Droid Control ship...BY ACCIDENT! "Oops! Uh-Oh! It's on automatic pilot!" You bet it is! At least Luke had to TRY to use the Force. There was trial and error and the sense that Luke was on a difficult journey. Anakin is a bystander to his own destiny.

And to make matters worse, wasting time in Episode I rushed everything that came after it. Why does it seem like Anakin and Padme fall in love in about 14 minutes? Because Lucas should have introduced their ADULT LOVE—not "Annie's" kiddie crush—in Episode I and had their relationship grow throughout Episode II. Instead it feels forced and they fall in love simply because the story dictates they have to.

This is why I think Episode III is going to be awful. I grew up imagining how cool the story of Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, his betrayal of Obi-Wan and the extermination of the Jedi would be. Not to mention the Clone Wars, the rise of the Empire, and the birth of the twins. Instead, all that good stuff we've been looking forward to for 20+ years is going to be crammed into one movie and not treated with the time and respect it deserves. Episodes I and II have barely scratched the surface of what could have been a great story, and I highly doubt the final chapter can make up for all the short comings of the preceding films...no matter how much money Lucas spends making it look pretty.

El Chuxter
10-22-2003, 02:14 PM
I think, unless it's a huge epic film that dwarfs the extended cuts of the LOTR films, there are too many things we want to see that simply won't fit. I'm trying to stay somewhat spoiler-free, but here's what I want to see in this movie:

The birth of the twins
The revelation of Darth Sidious
The death of Count Dooku
The exile of Obi-Wan and Yoda
The Jedi Purge, including fitting deaths for my favorite doomed Jedi (Mace, Kit, Saessee, Plo, Aayla, and Ki-Adi)
A swordfight to end all swordfights, set above the swirling magma of a lava planet
The death of Jar Jar Binks
Enough background info on Bail so not just us hardcore fans will know exactly who he is
Mon Mothma, Jan Dodonna, Garm bel Iblis, Sate Pestage, and possibly Wilhuff Tarkin
A concrete answer as to why the droids know nothing in ANH and beyond
Whether Stormtroopers are clones or recruits
A scene involving Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Sidious that reveals why they're so scared of him
Lots of Teek, most likely fighting mouse droids
What are midichlorions?
Why did Qui-Gon speak in AOTC?
Why can some Jedi vanish?
What does "Balance to the Force" mean?
What is the prophecy?
What is the Son of Suns?
What species is Yoda? Are there more?
Why was Luke considered safe with Anakin's stepbrother?
What was the final straw to turn Anakin against his friends?
Sidious kidnapping a red-haired baby girl to act as his "Hand" certainly wouldn't hurt

If it answers all these (and more, I'm sure), it can be the best. But I doubt it will. I'm voting "on par with the prequels," since I expect it to be better than TPM but I doubt it will match AOTC.

Edit: Tycho, I've got to disagree with you about how much TPM set up. Everything that was revealed in that movie could have been worked in as dialogue in AOTC, particularly when Anakin and Obi-Wan first appear in the movie.

Tycho
10-22-2003, 02:36 PM
Movies are about showing, not telling. It's a visual medium. So I disagree.

There is a movie out there, it's like a philosophy movie, that's actually really good. Where these scholars (they're real scholars, not movie stars I believe) walk around an old castle that has torture rooms and servant quarters, and all they do is talk about the human condition and society's evolution.

I mean that's all dialogue.

Now Phantom had a lot of politics and dialogue and fans complained. The majority consensus around here that I'd noted was the fans want ACTION.

So Lucas merely showed, instead of told, how a 9 year old had an overconfidence issue, a knack for doing things only his way, a kindness that motivated him to do things like start the N-1 fighter up to help save those he cared for, and Lucas worked all his visual effects around that idea.

If you're really interested in an extended dialogue movie, I'm serious when I say that the discussion held by these 4 philosophers walking around this old medeival castle is actually a fascinating movie. Star Wars is just an action-effects medium, and things are shown, not told. That's the way it's always been.

El Chuxter
10-22-2003, 02:48 PM
I'm not saying TPM is bad or shouldn't have been made (like I'm sure a lot of folks will). I simply think that there was a lot of talking in TPM to set up things that probably should've been shown. It's the only SW movie that I actually fast-forward through sometimes, and I think stillakid had an excellent point a while ago that the entire (rather convoluted) creation of midichlorions to explain Anakin is strong in the Force could've been solved by a simple shot of Anakin using the Force for something mundane like reaching for a wrench.

Since a lot of TPM is talking heads, the same info (and the basic plot of TPM) could've been worked into AOTC in just a handful of lines worked into AOTC.

Like:
OBI-WAN: Be mindful of your feelings, my young apprentice.
ANAKIN: I try, Master. But I feel as if I'm a nine-year-old slave boy again. I can't explain exactly what I felt when I first saw her, and I can't help feeling that same way now.

or

RUNE: I want Senator Amidala's head on my desk! She and the Jedi ruined my business.
DOOKU: Patience, my friend. After all, you will not be doing anything quite so clumsy and overt as blockading an entire planet this time.

Okay, those are pretty rough, but I guess they're some pretty basic examples of what I'm getting at. Some minor script changes, and Lucas could've started with AOTC and had two movies to finish the saga.

jad
10-22-2003, 03:25 PM
I've actually been looking forward to episode III the most since GL started working on the Prequels. I always thought that episode III really would be the best because it would be the final wrap up and everything by that time would be explained, atleast all the important stuff that is. I absolutely love ep I and II, not as much as Empire ( my favorite of all sw films), but I really do enjoy these new films. I can understand why some people don't like the new movies, but I just can't understand why, even after 3 or 4 years, they still have to be so overly negative, loud, and abnoxious in their viewpoints. I try to accept and respect the fact that people have the right to their opinion, but it's come to a point where they just need to stop freaking out about movies they don't enjoy and just shut up. It does ruin some of the enjoyment for fans who do love the new films. Not to mention 4 years later, hearing the statement "Lucas raped my childhood" has to be the most tired and unfunny statement ever. Just my two cents...

jpc1193
10-22-2003, 04:27 PM
Episode II was pretty lame, especially with regard to some of the special effects.
Some were just awful!
Anakin and Padme looked rediculous riding the Reek.
The special effects in Lord of the Rings blows it away.
George better get a bit more realistic here.
Story line: How could Padme possible fall in love with a jerk like Anakin?
If this stuff continues in Ep.III, I will be highly disappointed!
Don't get me wrong, I'm a dedicated SW fan, with better than $12,000.
in merchandise. Nevertheless, I expect better results from the originator of one of the greatest sagas of all time.
I think he needs some new employees with fresh ideas.
It's probably too late for that.
Oh, well............

plo koon 200
10-22-2003, 05:02 PM
That scene with Anakin riding the Reek is the one thing that made me dislike AOTC more than any film. The movie was good until that point and then after that I noticed how fake the movie looked. I bet if it was not for that scene I would have care less how video-game like the Clone Wars battle was like or how horrible Jango looks like in the Droid Factory Chase. I probably could care less about the rest of the love story but this scene made it awful, and I mean it made AOTC awful. There is no excuse for that scenes existence.

plo koon 200
10-22-2003, 05:04 PM
One more thing I 100% disagree that LOTR special effects blow away SW's. They both look the same and are equally crappy. Like the Balrog in TTT. Gandalf is a CGI looking man. I hate to say it but LOTR does not stack much higher, CGI wise. What makes CGI good or bad is the way it is used.

Bad CGI
Ani riding Reek

Good CGI
Kamino

If you need more examples I will gladly provide them.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-22-2003, 07:12 PM
So now instead of an appealing hero, we've got a little kid who demonstrates his tremendous potential for using the Force by destroying the Droid Control ship...BY ACCIDENT! "Oops! Uh-Oh! It's on automatic pilot!" You bet it is! At least Luke had to TRY to use the Force. There was trial and error and the sense that Luke was on a difficult journey. Anakin is a bystander to his own destiny.


No. Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try.

stillakid
10-22-2003, 11:05 PM
why did stillakid register two new user names to post the above two replies? :D ...........just joking stilla! :crazed:


;)


For months and months I've posted similar thoughts in a torrent of opposition here at SSG. But as I've said all along, the only staunch defenders of the Prequels I've ever "met" have been here. There is literally no one on the "outside" that I know who believes that the Prequels deserve a first look much less continued discussion. This isn't just me and, as those first couple posts prove, it hasn't been all along. Diehard fans will love whatever is released and that's just great. Really. More power to them. But in my experience, this amounts to a relatively small handful of people.

As for Episode 3, I never believe any spoilers mainly because there's no reason to. But aside from that, Lucasfilm has given no indication that the Episode III script was penned by anyone other than Lucas, so there is no reason to suspect that this finale will be any better (or worse) than the other two. When George writes and directs, he has his own unique style. We've now seen it 3 times from him (THX, TPM, AOTC). Those three left something to be desired and being that the situation is the exact same, it would be folly to expect anything different.

I am curious to see if he has the imagination to write his way out of the numerous holes he's dug for himself. It'll be worth the price of the ticket to see the result of that alone.

Darth Knight
10-22-2003, 11:31 PM
How i feel.

Episode 1 (ok)

Episode 2 (better)

Episode 3 (?)

fishyfett
10-23-2003, 02:11 AM
Hey, guys, I don't care how this movie will turn out, I'll still watch it!!! Whether I enjoy it or suffer thru it remains to be seen. But it better be BETTER!!! After all, it's the turning point of the entire saga. I'll especially enjoy the part when Anakin finds out who his father is .....................NOOOOOOOOO, it can't be!!!! That's not true!!!! That's impossible!!!!!

Hell, why do you think the Supreme Chancellor is so interested in training him anyway??? Midichlorians my behind. :p

plasticfetish
10-23-2003, 02:22 AM
I say "undecided." I am excited ... as I have been before every film since ESB came out. It's pretty hard not to be. I'm willing to let myself get excited and then give the film a fair chance ... watch it a few times, watch it on DVD when it comes out and then sit on it for a while. My opinion has changed for each of the five movies over the years. I do know that there are elements from both episodes 1 and 2 that I would have rather seen handled differently ... but I've come to enjoy them on the whole for what they are. They're good science fiction movies that try to incorporate ideas and technologies (sometimes successfully, sometimes not) that are perhaps more advanced or simply different than anything else that we've seen. In that sense, I don't think that the prequels have strayed too far in spirit from the OT.

As far as comparing them to other film series goes ... LOTR, the Matrix, etc ... man, I can't think of anything nerdier than arguing that the Lord of the Rings is cooler than Star Wars. I mean, besides the fact that there's simply no reason why they have to compete with one another on any level ... it's just lame. There's plenty of cheese to be had with LOTR, doesn't mean it's not super entertaining, just means that it's possible to pick anything apart with a fine tooth comb if you really want to.

So, I'll wait and see. In the mean time, I do like hearing the rumors.

angellus
10-23-2003, 10:40 AM
Not to mention 4 years later, hearing the statement "Lucas raped my childhood" has to be the most tired and unfunny statement ever. Just my two cents...

Didn't say it to be funny, bro, and I apologize if I offended anyone. I just feel the art of storytelling has been sacrificed for the almighty dollar and a chance to make people "Ooh and Ahh" at a bunch of pretty pictures. Maybe it's better that Lucas couldn't achieve all these visual effects back in the day because it forced him to focus on the characters and the story. The ships, creatures and battles were all stunning and remain so to this day, but the story was the heart and soul of the trilogy. And I don't think I'm alone in saying that the story simply isn't the focus anymore. Maybe you're right, maybe I shouldn't complain. After all, you can't change the past and Lucas is going to laugh all the way to the bank regardless of how we all feel. But Star Wars is the greatest myth of our generation and it's hard not to hold Lucas to the same standard he set for himself 26 years ago.

Jaff
10-23-2003, 11:30 AM
Lucas will really have to work hard to make this movie worse than other films. We have Vader introduced, Mon Mothma, the destruction of the Jedi, how can they mess it up without doing so on purpose.

stillakid
10-23-2003, 11:50 AM
Lucas will really have to work hard to make this movie worse than other films.

That's not saying much for the other films, is it? ;)

stillakid
10-23-2003, 11:55 AM
I just feel the art of storytelling has been sacrificed for the almighty dollar and a chance to make people "Ooh and Ahh" at a bunch of pretty pictures.


I'm personally being "challenged" by similar, um, obstacles this week as I shoot a project for Warner Bros. My particular cross to bear is the omnipresent restrictions placed on the content by Warner Legal which essentially dictates a lot of what comes out of that studio based on fear of lawsuits. It isn't pretty and it's very, very frustrating.

Lucas left "Hollywood" to become the consumate independent, which he has done quite successfully...except that he's fallen into the mindset of a studio exec as he clearly is making "studio exec" type choices in order to protect his investment and "ensure" box office return. Instead of just making a good story, those extraneous concerns are tainting what could be something truly truly great. :(

kool-aid killer
10-24-2003, 09:56 AM
I will like it simply because its a new Star Wars movie. I agree though that this movie has a lot of work to tie up, hopefully Lucas is up to the task.

plo koon 200
10-24-2003, 10:05 AM
Lucas will really have to work hard to make this movie worse than other films. We have Vader introduced, Mon Mothma, the destruction of the Jedi, how can they mess it up without doing so on purpose.

Umm, Jaff this is a no spoiler thread.

Tycho
10-24-2003, 02:09 PM
Use your best judgement about spoilers. But we're really talking about how we'll feel about the film, and suffice it to say: either what you already know about what's in the script surprises you, or it doesn't, and you like it or you don't - and if you know nothing yet, you either look forward to it or you don't. It will either be predictable or it won't.

Jaff really didn't post spoilers. There are just logical things that should happen or that we want to see happen, that tie up the Prequel Trilogy and / or Set up the sequel trilogy.

There will be an 18 year gap in the story though, and that's a given.

If so much has changed in the 12-14 years between E3 and TPM, then a lot should be allowed for in changes between E3 and E4 (ANH).

I don't expect everything to be tied up. And there's a great number of people out there that don't want it to be: they want randomness in the universe, such as in where Han Solo or Lando Calrissian come from; and Palpatine not also being someone's dad, etc.

I myself look at it as a modern myth, so I'm fine with it being the tale of a few families and some of my theories on where characters come from, and who they're related to. I like it more poetically epic, than a random tribute to too much realism.

I also hold true to the notion that this is a morality tale about the Skywalker family, and not a galactic battleground political story, or we'd have had more feed-in scenes of meetings with the Board of Directors of the Intergalactic Banking Clan, and a Shareholders' Meeting for owners with stock in the Trade Federation, including guest speakers from the Republic's military industrial complex, etc.

But in books the Rebel Alliance doesn't actually form into the organization we know in the Classic series, until maybe 2 years before ANH. Getting the plans to the Death Star that Vader chases after in ANH, was their first great victory - it says so in the opening title scroll of ANH.

I don't know what you all expect, but some of it sounds kind of illogical.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-24-2003, 11:19 PM
This is why I think Episode III is going to be awful. I grew up imagining how cool the story of Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, his betrayal of Obi-Wan and the extermination of the Jedi would be.

When did betrayal and extermination become cool?

jedibear
10-26-2003, 12:03 AM
...because it can be taken either way. Now I'm one of those who liked both PM & AOTC so I'm really looking forward to see how it all wraps up.
I couldn't stop myself and read some of the spoilers on other sites (there MUST be some galactic 12-step group for that...ewoks aynonomous anyone?) and if even some of it is true, we're in for an intense ride...

I'm looking forward to it!

fishyfett
10-26-2003, 12:15 AM
Pal-pa-tine, A-na-kin,

Palpatine, Anakin,

Pal-pa-tine, A-na-kin,

See, not only do their names have the same number of syllables, but they also rhyme. :D

Hhmmmmm........maybe there's more to this than just poetic justice. :p

Jargo
10-26-2003, 01:58 PM
I voted big pile of poo.

LucasBlows
10-26-2003, 06:47 PM
If everything we hear is true, and it probably is since everything that has been revealed sucks hairy ewok, this movie will most certainly be the worst of all the prequels. Lucas is suceeding in destroying Star Wars. First he wiped his butt on the originals by rereleasing them as the hideous "special" editions and now with the abominations that we now know as prequels George Lucas has defied the laws of physics by both sucking and blowing at the same time.

skeeziks22
10-28-2003, 02:28 PM
LucasBlows... you're pretty hardcore with your opinions. To each their own.
But I wonder why you bother keeping up w/ SW news if it seems to bother you so much.

The special editions were alright... the only thing he should have made sure was
correct was that Greedo's shot should have at least left a blaster burn in the wall... he can't possibly be that bad a shot AND carry such a lame gun.

E3 could be great like I said before... and as Tycho mentioned the 3rd film will
probably make me enjoy and even understand the first two movies more. I just get the feeling that when Lucas originally thought out the Saga he didn't have Anakin being so young at first sight. If he did Episode 4 would probably be Episode 5 or 6 (so he could tell the whole story of Anakin)...

I actually hope there WILL be a lot left unanswered in this film or else it will seem like a trilogy crammed into one movie... As it is now, EII could have easily been EI with just a few modifications... (that may be a statement made without thinking too much, but I can't see much to argue the idea)

By stating that EI and EII addressed very little I simply meant that by running through a list of questions that came up in the original trilogy how many have been answered in the first two prequels... not nearly as many as still remain. Not that they were bland and lacking of any pertinent information.

angellus
10-28-2003, 03:15 PM
The special editions were alright... the only thing he should have made sure was
correct was that Greedo's shot should have at least left a blaster burn in the wall...

Your only problem with that scene is there isn't a blaster burn in the wall? How about the fact that Greedo shooting first alters the dynamic of the entire scene? Let's face it, Han wasn't exactly the nicest guy in the galaxy when we meet him in the cantina, so it's totally in character—not to mention SMART—for him to shoot Greedo before Greedo had a chance to shoot him. The altered scene in the special edition turns Han from a hard-edged gunslinger into a friggin' wuss. And Lucas' claim that he didn't want Han to kill Greedo "in cold blood" is assinine. He had a gun pointed at his chest, brain trust! That's self defense, not cold blood! Maybe in the next special edition Luke will only fire his torpedos at the Death Star after it fires at—and miraculously misses—the Yavin moon.

And that scene is hardly the only thing wrong with the special editions. How about Jabba looking nothing like he does in Return of the Jedi? Or that totally unnecessary (not to mention fake looking) shot of Han running around the corner and into a platoon of Stormtroopers? And don't even get me started on the fact that Luke screams when he jumps off the gantry at Cloud City. That awesome scene went from "I'd rather die than join the Dark Side," to "If I knew the fall was going to be this scary I wouldn't have jumped!" Boring, thoughtless writing. And to top it all off, they used the Emperor's scream from Return of the Jedi! Come on! They couldn't grab an intern, shove a microphone in his face and say "Here, scream like a girl."

I'm glad Lucasblows brought up the special editions, because it just goes to show what is fundamentally wrong with the way Lucas has gone about filming the prequels: all visuals and not enough story. I mean geeze, his whole excuse for doing the special editions was "I didn't have the technology to do these things 20 years ago." You didn't have the technology to make Greedo shoot first? Or have Luke scream when he jumped? Just give me the original theatrical releases and a ticket to Lord of the Rings, please...

Tycho
10-28-2003, 03:44 PM
Well, answered questions from the OT are now:

1) Where did all the stormtroopers and military might of the Empire come from?

2) How did Palpatine gain control over it; where did he come from?

3) Where did Anakin Skywalker come from? Who was his family?

4) Why did Anakin not take well to Jedi training? How could someone capable of being a Jedi go bad? What were his motivations?

5) If Obi-Wan was so great of Jedi, why couldn't he deal with training Anakin?

6) Who was Luke and Leia's mother?

7) Where did R2D2 and C-3PO come from?

8) What was this mysterious Jedi Order and who were the Knights of the Old Republic? How did they operate?

9) Why did the Republic fall? What could have been done about it?

10) What were the Clone Wars?

11) How did Luke end up living with Owen and Beru?

12) How was Bail Organa involved, and when was Obi-Wan a General?


THE ANSWERS FROM TPM and AOTC:

1) Stormtroopers are probably Clones with armor that has evolved away from symbols of the Old Republic and has been replaced by symbols of the Empire. As the might of the Empire strengthened, Stormtroopers could also include enlisted and drafted random humans from across the galaxy, as time went on, and it hasn't been denied. But it's been pretty obviously answered for the most part.

2) Palpatine was the Senator from Naboo, and he most likely acted as Darth Sidious to set up a situation he could capitalize on politically, and did so, gaining emergency powers as he innocently protested that democracy could work in the face of the greed of special interest groups from "corporate galactica."

3) Anakin was a 9 year old slave boy, son of Shmi Skywalker, another slave. He had a dubious virgin birth, which may or may not be true, but he grew up wanting respect and trusting in his own ability to achieve goals and disciplines that he set for himself. To survive, he learned to cheat around the rules.

4) Anakin knew his mother and wanted to save her from slavery, and end its injustice as he saw fit. More of answer 3 lends to this answer. He also lost his mother, and had difficulty dealing with Jedi restrictions against unsanctioned missions, personal indulgements, and revenge. We saw that just as he could not blame himself for his slavery condition (which was true), he learned to never blame himself for his failures to either a) accept the Jedi training conditions and their consequences for his mother, and the lifestyle he'd chosen or b) accept that it was his fault, that bad things would happen that would terribly affect him, if he strayed outside of the rules Obi-Wan laid down for him - hence he winds up in an ultimately tragic relationship with Padme. Her fate, no doubt completes his downfall. But yes, he always only wanted just to be of help, do good, and be a hero.

5) Obi-Wan was a strict adherent of the Jedi code and didn't want Anakin and the responsibility of training him. But Obi-Wan's master, Qui-Gon, was the student of Dooku, a rule breaker, who taught Qui-Gon his own interpretations or dismissals of what was important to the Jedi code. In the end, Qui-Gon was killed, and Obi-Wan, barely ready to be a Knight, was charged too young, with being a Master to a boy who was too old to begin the training, due to Anakin's previous life experiences, discussed above, as well as Anakin's attachments to others he loved. Qui-Gon probably could have trained him, though Dooku could have remained a danger. We don't know when Dooku really thought of joining the Sith yet. Of course, Qui-Gon, had he lived, would have been susceptible to Dooku. Obi-Wan, however, was only too green and inexperienced to deal with an apprentice only 15 years younger than he was. In most societies, 15 is too young to become a father, yet a young father can handle it in various cases, because the child is a baby in a crib, dependant on the parent, not a podracer with a knack for finding trouble and powers they cannot control. It was doomed from the start. The only new question remaining is how much of this did Palpatine know or plan?

6) Padme Naberrie (Amidala) was Luke and Leia's mother. She was the Queen of Naboo, therefore giving Leia official inheritance of the title "Princess."

7) C-3PO was a junked protocal droid that may or may not have known R2-D2 before being scrapped and having a memory wipe. Anakin Skywalker found what was left of him and rebuilt him and gave him his name we know him by. R2-D2 was one of 6-8 astromech repair droids purchased by the Naboo to serve Padme Amidala's royal starship in basic and emergency maintainance. He is the last survivor of his droid crew from the Trade Federation conflict, and become an honored and trusted servant of Pamde's. The droid's union as counterparts was completed, upon Anakin and Padme's union in marriage.

8) The Knights of the Old Republic were governed by a Council of 12, including Mace Windu and Master Yoda. They maintained an ancient temple to their order on Coruscant, which was at least 1,000 years old, possibly 3,000 years old (Nomi Sunrider had the Jedi based on Exis Station before choosing to move them to Coruscant, years after Ossus was destroyed in the Sith War). The Temple has training and living quarters for younglings, who are taken close to their age at birth, to be raised in an ideal and sheltered lifestyle, until fully inculcated into the Jedi Way. Knights roam the galaxy on a life of continuous missions. They normally choose from younglings at age 13, to become formally apprenticed for about 10-12 years, with one Master. They become Knights themselves at around their mid-twenties. Most Jedi Masters training apprentices would be expected to be older than 30 (for a human master). Very old Jedi may live in the temple and serve on the Council or act as librarians, and other specialists. During the Clone Wars, it was asked of all Knights to become Generals, and their older Padawans to serve as Lieuteniants, commanding Clone Warriors and Republic officers against the Separatists. Jedi who could not be trained to become Knights, are put in diplomatic services or the Agricultural Corps, helping with science and political duties with the benefits of their extensive Jedi education. (Perhaps Palpatine is one of these Jedi who were never chosen? His Force capabilities are thus known to the Council, and that is why he is not suspected when he's on the same ship or in the same office with them?)

9) The Republic fell because of corporate greed and interest group politics that caused for stalemates in critical votes when systems like Naboo needed the results of fast action. Imagine the California fire response if Republicans and Democrats argued the point of sending out-of-state aid until every house had burned down! Well, Naboo, and many of the Separatist Systems were on fire, so they had to take matters into their own hands. It is really surprising that Padme herself does not become a Separatist. I wonder if that will change? Right now, her position is to reform the Republic, because if the Separatists succeed, they'll only eventually need a new galactic government anyway, and learn soon enough that their non-interference policies will only go so far, before their precious commerce is destroyed. They'll need a New Republic, but out of desperation, carefully manipulated by the Sith, they'll help a war-weary population choose an Empire!

10) The Clone Wars were the clashes of an illegally, and unsanctioned Clone army, supposedly created by the Jedi, fighting against independent systems who were trying to create their own destiny because the corrupt or stalemated Republic no longer represented them, and they were lured by the money and show of strength by corporate interests, to trust that their automated droid armies could gaurantee their safety and freedom. The droids could not respond with compassion, and the feeling was almost bred out of the Clones, and what resulted was a war that escalated into the destruction of civilization.

11) Owen was the step-son of Anakin's mother, therefore Anakin's step-brother, and his son Luke's "step-uncle."

12) Bail Organa was a Loyalist Party member who believed in fixing the Republic and stood naively by Palpatine's side, as the Chancellor's ally, until it was too late. He helped the Chancellor gain emergency powers, which sanctioned the Clone Army, and then called upon the Jedi to serve as its generals. Obi-Wan was a Jedi who obeyed his call to duty. He served all the Loyalists to the Republic as a General, not just Bail Organa, but the two may yet end up fighting on the same side in action, or at the speaker's podium. It will be up to E3 to show us anything more.



The Questions left for E3 are as follows:

1) How does Padme die?
2) How does Leia end up with Bail Organa?
3) What makes Anakin finally choose to fight with Obi-Wan with weapons versus words? (he's already mad at Obi-Wan and the Jedi about his mom).
4)What physically happens to Anakin? What are his wounds?
5) How is Palpatine alligned with the Sith? Who was his master? What is he? How did he get into service in Naboo in the first place?
6) When are the droids' memories wiped? 3PO, or both? Why? (can't 3PO remember Tatooine?)
7) Where does Han Solo come from? Is his destiny intertwined in all this so early in his life?
8) What's Chewie's story? Where does his morals originate from?
9) When does the Rebel Alliance form? What will Bail Organa and Mon Mothma have to do with it? How about Admiral Ackbar (NOTE - Mon Calamari is Separatist! - Sen. Tiikes is in AOTC, and in the comics and in the upcoming CW cartoon, Mon Cal and Quarren alike fight Palpatine's Republic)
10) How does Tarkin rise to power? (it's not really important. He just has fans).
11) How is the Jedi Temple destroyed? Are all the Jedi killed, or are they still hunted for 18 years after the movie closes?
12) How does Yoda end up on Dagobah? How does Obi-Wan end up on Tatooine?
13) Does Vader know his son survived? Does Palpatine?
14) Did Anakin have a father? Did Shmi lie?
15) What ends up happening to C-3PO and R2-D2? Are they lost so they can have their "Droids" adventures for the next 18 years? Is R2 trying to loyally get back to Padme, or serve her daughter?
16) Does Obi-Wan meet Darth Vader, once Anakin is transformed?
17) Will Lucas keep Vader's identity secret, as to make for a 12 hour movie?
18) Will Lucas keep the fact that there are twin babies secret for the same reason?
19) Does Lando Calrissian have any significant origin in all of the calamity following the Clone Wars?
20) What has happened to Boba Fett?
21) How does Mace Windu die?
22) How do some Jedi disappear?
23) Do midichlorians have anything to do with any plot point whatsoever?
24) Did JarJar Binks serve any further purpose to the trilogy as a whole?
25) Why did Count Dooku get involved with the Sith? Why did Palpatine trust him? How did they meet?

These are a lot of the issues that have been, or have to be, resolved by the Prequels.

JediTricks
10-28-2003, 08:33 PM
I just get the feeling that when Lucas originally thought out the Saga he didn't have Anakin being so young at first sight. If he did Episode 4 would probably be Episode 5 or 6 (so he could tell the whole story of Anakin)...

As it is now, EII could have easily been EI with just a few modifications... (that may be a statement made without thinking too much, but I can't see much to argue the idea) About Ani's age, I totally agree. And if you look at the illustrated screenplay, the writing comes off more as a kid in his early teens and many of the drawings in there support this. I think Lucas changed his mind 2/3rds of the way through and simply changed the kid's age.

As for Ep 1 being easily shoehorned into Ep 2, I've said that for years now, couldn't agree more.

fishyfett
10-29-2003, 09:35 AM
Unsatisfied w/ the answers or still craving for more??? Here's tip: Read the Books, people, and eliminate all the unnecessary questions plaguing your galactic puzzle. Sorry, the movies are for entertainment. For trivial answers, I'd rather read a book and perhaps discover why such event took place and why some individuals are the way they are. Point taken on OT Special Editions, they are made to entertain and wow the audience on special effects, hence Special Editions. Unfortunately, to some, these films didn't make for a better story. To me, I was content with these films. Even if they are inconsistent w/ the books.

Inconsistencies abound in SW continuity, so I won't even sweat it if not all questions will be answered in the final prequel. I thought at first AOTC will be the Clone Wars itself, but I was wrong. Who would've thought the Clone Wars will be made into a cartoon series?? Wars and violence for kids. Now, they really are gonna buy a lot of toy soldiers. Big G has a way of keeping things 'clouded' in the Force, so please take the blue pill and relax. Enjoy the movie when it finally shows up. :D

And leave the red pill to Big G and his staff!!! :eek:

skeeziks22
10-29-2003, 11:24 AM
The feel of the OT is completely different than that of the prequels for obvious reasons... The OT you follow a rebellion... made of a few talented, strong-willed and/or lucky beings who are frequently on their own fighting the system. The prequels we follow a few talented, strong-willed and/or lucky beings who are enmeshed in the workings of the government... fighting for it not against it.

My point is... if Lucas would have made E I-III first, with all these players and political intrigue, and big battle scenes (which may or may not be necessary) they likely would have been looked at with awe like the OT was during their releases. However, if you go back and try to make the second trilogy afterwards (E IV-VI) which is much more low key (until the end of Jedi) and less political (The rebellion exists and that is that)... I think SW fans would be really bored and dissappointed.

I think, if anything the prequels should increase fans' appreciation of the OT... they light up the background and put in place a lot of what we know has to be a really complex situation (but never really get to see in the OT). I mean... ESB may be the best of the OT, but why so... because it is so simple? Very little happened with the rebellion after the Hoth sequence... after that it was like a school yard squabble; Vader is the big bully and Luke, Leia, Han etc are the epitome of the less mature kids running scared... Luke finally gets fed up, but oversteps his bounds and gets whooped for it.

Do "we" not like the prequels because they have too many special effects, or because they are too complicated? Special effects are easy to pick on, but I'm guessing because they are too confusing... we really still don't know what's going on!

Back to the poll... Hopefully E III will be a great tie in with the OT... bringing things from really complicated (prequel feeling) to simple and linear (OT feeling)

Tycho
10-29-2003, 12:16 PM
Great Point!

stillakid
10-30-2003, 08:15 AM
Do "we" not like the prequels ...because they are too complicated?


Complicated? The Prequels aren't even close to being "complicated." Confusing, yes, but only because so much of what we were led to believe is being altered, so most of us are sitting here trying to figure out what the heck Lucas is thinking. Apart from that, the Prequel stories are about as cut and dried as they get. Lucas's own mantra to "cut fast so the audience won't notice" was in full effect here.

But you're right about the order of production...not that it takes much thought. Lucas himself has said this for many years, that he began with Episode IV because it was inherently more interesting than the, quote, "machiavellian" political story of the Prequels. Too bad he couldn't have stuck with that idea instead of running off on a soap-opera tangent.

Tycho
10-30-2003, 12:56 PM
Do you refer to the love story?

Well, that's how they explain Luke and Leia being born.

It also will surely have a lot to do with how Anakin gets involved in the political story, and how he falls to the Dark Side and joins to command the Empire.

skeeziks22
10-30-2003, 01:08 PM
I stick by my "Complicated" statement. If you simply look at the main characters actions I will admit that their story is pretty basic... BUT the reason it is simple for them so far is because they really don't know what is going on.

Obi-Wan has the best idea I think (except maybe for Yoda and Mace) because he isn't complicating things with relationships, so he can focus on the matter at hand.

How did Dooku get involved?
Who is Darth Sidious?
How did the Republic Army really get commisioned?
Who is being used and who doing the using?
Why is the Force so clouded, if only two Sith exist (and Dooku really isn't all that "Dark")?
What enables Qui-Gon to speak from beyond the grave?
Then there is all the political rambling in the background that simply muttles up anything that seems to be clear cut.

So, yes, I think these movies are much more complicated.

I am happy that these movies have raised more questions than they answered... and some things were revealed that seemed to come out of left field.

When the OT was still fresh and the only SW movies out there, I don't know how many people would have guessed that the Old Republic and the Empire are simply one evolved into the next. I think this alone makes the prequels intriguing and worthy of the SW universe

stillakid
10-30-2003, 09:45 PM
I really like the political intrigue (mystery) portion of the Prequels, despite it not making too much sense at times (not because it's "complicated" but because it wasn't thought out very well). Of course the courtship of Anakin and Padme is vitally important as it leads to the "creation" of our next set of heroes, but George could have toned it down a few notches and still gotten his point across. The IMAX version did just that and the entire story flows so much better for it.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-30-2003, 11:34 PM
6) Padme Naberrie (Amidala) was Luke and Leia's mother. She was the Queen of Naboo, therefore giving Leia official inheritance of the title "Princess."


I thought the Princess title came from Alderaan, not Naboo.



7) C-3PO was a junked protocal droid that may or may not have known R2-D2 before being scrapped and having a memory wipe. Anakin Skywalker found what was left of him and rebuilt him and gave him his name we know him by.


Is there a source that says he was a junked droid? From the movie, all we know is that Anakin built him, though I suppose he could have salvaged parts from junked droids. I can't recall if I read about it anywhere though.

Tycho
10-31-2003, 12:09 AM
It was in the novelization of the movie.

And you are probably correct about Leia's title being from Alderaan. However she would have been royalty from Naboo anyway, had everything been done right in a normal delivery.

fishyfett
10-31-2003, 01:28 AM
Ok, I got this quandry: Somewhere in the books, it was stated that Fett's armor is derived from the Mandalorian commandos that the Jedi defeated and wiped out during the 'Clone Wars'???? Clone Wars??? Then, I thought well, wasn't Jango the last of the Mandalorians after they fought both the Jedi and rival renegade commandos?? I know this wasn't not during the Clone Wars. When I first read the origins of Fett's armor, I thought the Mandalorians ARE the Clones. I guess in an ironic twist of fate, its pretty much true since they used Jango's DNA to spawn the clone soldiers. But the Jedi are their allies in this war!!!

I don't know what gives but somehow its does get a little confusing trying to make sense of its continuity. I give up. :confused:

Tycho
10-31-2003, 01:50 AM
Read the Comic Series "Jango Fett: Open Season"

History of the Mandalorians in a nut shell:

bby = before battle of Yavin in ANH (SW E4)


4000 bby - Mandalorians are marauding band of warriors led by Mandalore, a leader who taught his men - beings of different species - their own martial arts and code of honor amongst thieves.

4000 bby - Mandalore was defeated and pledged his loyalty to the Sith Lord Ulic Qel Droma. All Mandalorians became servants of the Sith. They became traditional enemies of the Jedi, directly for that reason.

3997 bby - The Sith plans to conquer the galaxy are defeated, Mandalore is killed on the Dxxun Moon orbitting the Sith world of Onderron. The warriors hide out there, possibly recruiting during raids, but culling the weak from their numbers.

Nothing is heard of the Mandalorians through the 1,000 year war that we currently know of. The Sith returned but fought without them. There certainly didn't seem to be Mandalorians at Ruusan, with Darth Bane.

Darth Bane did go to the Dxxun Moon after Ruusan, when he and Zannah were the last surviving Sith. He may have enlisted Mandalorians then, or they may have been long gone. This was 3,000 years later.

1000 bby - was Darth Bane's movement for the Sith to be reborn.

63 yrs bby - Mandalorians were working as mercenaries, sort of like "The A-Team," only several hundred strong (or larger). Civil war errupted within the ranks over what their moral code should be: blood work versus rescue missions.
Jaster Mureel was recruited into the Mandalorians ranks and rose to power to lead them fighting the Death Watch faction.

The in-fighting spread back to Jaster's homeworld of Concord Dawn, where he'd been the sherrif, so to speak. His replacement, was a farmer named Fett. His family was slaughtered and only one son survived: Jango.

Jaster adopted Jango and raised him to be a Mandalorian Warrior.

The Death Watch killed Jaster Mureel, and Jango saved his armor to one day fill it with a protoge that he'd train to lead the Mandalorians like Jaster did.

The Death Watch tricked the Jedi Knights commanded by Count Dooku, into wiping out the Mandalorians for them. Jango was captured and sold into slavery.

Jango escaped and wrecked revenge on the Death Watch, killing all of them including Mantross, their leader, and Jaster's former rival.

32 years bby - Dooku turned to the Dark Side and joined the Sith. As part of their plot, he recruited Jango Fett to be the source of new warriors for the cause. They'd initially make the Republic an army of professional soldiers, the ARC Troopers being the best trained in the Mandalorian arts, and armed similarly.

Jango requested an unaltered Clone, to be raised to be his protoge to don Jaster Mureel's armor and make the Mandalorians live again.

22 bby: Jango was killed by a Jedi.

His work was done on a need-to-know basis, or he thought Dooku had betrayed him, or had his plans collapse around him, when the Jedi took command of the Clone Army and used them against the Separatists.

Boba saw it as a failure of the Count's, but watched for signs of betrayal.

Mad Slanted Powers
10-31-2003, 11:28 PM
Thanks for the info Tycho, I'll have to read the TPM novel again someday. Other than the Episode I and II novelizations, the only other prequel era stuff I've read is Rogue Planet and The Approaching Storm. I've read the Jedi Apprentice series but not the Jedi Quest or Boba Fett books. I think the only comics from that era I've read is Prelude to Rebellion. I usually wait and get the trade paperbacks rather than get individual issues. Either way, I'm way behind on the reading. I've been doing post ROTJ reading and reached New Rebellion but stopped reading again. And when I do read, I tend to quickly forget all the details. I've got the Clone Wars timeline now so I think I'll try and follow that to keep up the events leading up to Episode III.

posty