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View Full Version : Lightsaber thoughts and questions...



seanmcfripp
10-24-2003, 11:09 AM
A thread in the ATOC forum got me thinking about something. It would appear that Obi-wan and Anakin are going to duel each other other with their respective blue-bladed lightsabers. Something about that just strikes me as being a little odd though. I'm not sure two sabers of the same color are going to be as visually striking as the contrasting colors we've seen in all the other films.

ANH: blue vs. red
ESB: again, blue vs. red
ROTJ: green vs. red
TPM: blue and green vs. red
ATOC: blue and green vs. red

In ATOC, it seems Lucas very deliberately had Anakin and Obi-wan armed with different colored lightsabers by the time the duel with Dooku occurred. Anakin's two-saber attacks are much more stimulating to the eye because of the two different colors, and I think Lucas is concious of the asthetic it creates.

But I would imagine Obi-wan and Anakin dueling with the same colored blades would be somehow less stimulating to the eye and almost difficult to follow. The duels we've seen in the other movies have a wonderful rhythm because the great lightsaber sound effects and flashes of color are so perfectly coordinated. There is a fabulous dance of light, punctuated by hums and crashes. The very beginning of the duel at Bespin is one of the finer moments of all the films: two adversaries shrouded in the dark distinguished only by the color of their weapons. The swordplay runs almost like a dialogue. I feel that somehow, the colors play a very important part in creating that atmosphere. If Lucas had decided early on that lazerswords would just be one generic color (like a burning white, similar to the early concept art), then the "cool" factor of the lightsaber in general would be less and the duels would be somehow less dramatic. Imagine trying to follow the Qui-gon/Obi-wan duel with Darth Maul if everyone had the same colored sword. It would a big flashy mess.

My point is this...I'd like to see Lucas devise a way to have Obi-wan and Anakin duel with different colored blades. Appently this is going to be the greatest duel of all time, and I wouldn't want it's impact to be diminished because of a visual flaw. But how would he do it? I suppose he could have Anakin build his red colored saber at some point before they fight. But I remember reading somewhere that he builit the red one as part of his transformation into Vader. I suppose he could use Mace's purple one. My understanding is that Anakin is the one who eventually kills Mace. He could possibly keep his lightsaber as a symbol to the rest of the Jedi, kind of like a trophy: "I hold the weapon of senior member of the Jedi council. Now I am the master"...that kind of thing. It would be somewhat ironic that Anakin would hunt down and destroy the last of the Jedi with their head guy's weapon.

I dunno...this was just a weird thing I was thinking about and was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way. Lightsabers are one of favorite parts of the Star Wars experience. I remember seeing ROTJ in the theater when I was six. When Luke's Lightsaber popped out green for the first time, I remember turning to my mother, "Mommy, he's got a green one!". And when I saw the original teaser trailer for TPM on tv for the first time, I had the same reaction when Darth Maul popped out his second blade (this was before I had internet access, so the trailer was actually the first time i had seen anything for TPM). Maybe Lucas can give us one more surprise in the way of lightsaber gimmicks. But I do hope he handles the color coordination in the manner which I've described.

Anakin2121
10-25-2003, 12:00 PM
At the very least though, Anakin's and Obi-Wan's sabers are very different shades of blue. Anakin will be using the saber that Luke used in ANH and ESB -- it's such a light shade of blue, it's almost white. Obi-Wan's is a deeper shade of blue.

seanmcfripp
10-25-2003, 07:22 PM
Anakin will be using the saber that Luke used in ANH and ESB -- it's such a light shade of blue, it's almost white. Obi-Wan's is a deeper shade of blue.

I think that was just an inconsistency in the special effect. My understanding is that the original "glow" effect was created by a chemical being hand applied to each frame. I think they call it rotoscoping. Not really an exact science. In fact, Luke's blade is a different shade of blue in the two times we see it in ANH. You're right, it is almost white in Ben's house, and then a little more blue when training on the Falcon. But it is more consistenly blue in ESB.

When Lucas said he was doing the special editions, I had hoped that the lightsaber effects would have been one of the things he would fix (Obi-wan's blade flickering out, Vader's not being lit when walking up to the blast door, Luke's being different shades of white/blue). Oh well, no such luck. Maybe in the extra-special-with-sprinkles-on-top edition.

TheDarthVader
10-26-2003, 12:01 AM
To me it seems that we will see a blue vs blue lightsaber duel. I don't think it will be bad. But that's just my opinion.

Croaker
10-26-2003, 06:16 PM
I'd definitely like to see different colour blades.
That which makes the most sense is for Anakin to use a red one.
It's a clear signal that he has become the bad guy.
Doesn't matter if he uses one that he made himself or another.
Maybe he could find himself without a saber (again) and have to force-call the sabre of a fallen sith. (dooku or whatever).

I doubt they'd go with two of the same colour.

chewbacca71
10-28-2003, 07:18 PM
But I remember reading somewhere that he builit the red one as part of his transformation into Vader.

Remember, if it's not in the movies, it's free game. (not cannon.) It is entirely possible for Anakin to create a red saber under the tutiledge of Palpatine and then use that to fight Obi-Wan.

Not saying that will happen, but just remember, cannon.

seanmcfripp
09-06-2005, 11:33 AM
Since everyone is dusting off some old threads, I'll take a shot at it.

I think the blue on blue worked out just like I thought it would: it was a flashy mess. End of story. My wife, who is NOT a SW fan by any means, but likes to be supportive when we go see the movies, turned to me right as "The Duel" started and said "Why doesn't he have a red sword? Isn't he evil now?" I saw the movie later with my parents and after the movie, my mother asked me the same thing: "Why didn't he get a red sword when he became Darth Vader?" Again, these are questions coming from people who know little to nothing about SW, outside of what they remember from having seen the movies once each, so for them to ask the same question leads me to the conclusion that most casual SW fans had the a similar reaction. Lucas goes to all the trouble to set up the rule "good guys are green and blue, bad guys are red", then doesn't follow through with it? If Anakin has truly gone bad, then there should be some visual represenatation of it, especially a visual representation that Lucas has been so careful to maintain. The "hood up when he's evil" thing doesn't quite cut it.

I know it would have been hard to see a pink-lit sword against a lava background, but it still could have worked.

JimJamBonds
09-06-2005, 12:37 PM
I think the blue vs. blue saber was done on purpose, as the song that plays during the battle its a "Battle of the Hero's." Both swordsman are 'good' and its tough to say who to cheer for. I personally don't have a problem with both blades being the same color, sure it could have been a bit easier on the eye had the blades been different colors but like I said it wasn't a big deal.

Had the duel taken place a bit later on down the road Vader would have had a red blade, however remember that Ani changes 'teams' :p and then heads off to the temple and then Mustafar (with a quick side trip to Padme's). These events take place 'bam bam bam' there wouldn't be time to fool around getting a red blade. As Palps says in his office "we must move quickly... the Jedi are relentless." I think it was a matter of timing that prevented the red blade.

Devo
09-07-2005, 12:57 PM
I've only seen the film once and I seem to be the only person on the planet who doesn't have a pirate copy but yes I think the 2 blue blades detracted from the fight. I couldn't tell what was going on - who was attacking, who was defending and this was made worse by how fast moving they were. It would have made perfect sense for me had Palpy just given Anakin his Vader lightsaber. I was disappointed by the duel in no small part because both sabres were the same colour.

Also JimJamBonds, who to cheer for? For me it was a no-brainer - I wanted Obi-wan to kick anakin's arse!! (and I'm satisfied enough that he did)

kool-aid killer
09-07-2005, 01:37 PM
Palpatine wouldnt have given up his lightsaber. Despite his power loaning it could prove costly to him.

JimJamBonds
09-07-2005, 02:15 PM
Also JimJamBonds, who to cheer for? For me it was a no-brainer - I wanted Obi-wan to kick anakin's arse!! (and I'm satisfied enough that he did)

Leading up to the fight I think there is still a chance for Anakin to stay good. While Palps giving directions Anakin says "I agree the first move will be against the Senate." Palpers then says "Every Jedi including your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi is now an enemy of the Republic." Anakin responds to that "I understand." I took this to mean that he didn't agree with Palps but he would do his bidding. Since they have a little chat before the fight begins I think there was a chance for Anakin to stay good (of course we know that won't happen :) ). I agree that I wanted Obbers to kick butt and I think he did as well. :whip:

2-1B
09-07-2005, 02:15 PM
I loved the blue on blue fight and wouldn't change the colors for anything.

While some simple minded viewers might ask why he isn't using a red one, instead I appreciate the significance of Obi-Wan giving Luke the saber he pulled off of his old man after fighting him. Powerful.

Rocketboy
09-07-2005, 05:24 PM
I appreciate the significance of Obi-Wan giving Luke the saber he pulled off of his old man after fighting him. Powerful.Agreed. If not, then it would have been "yet another thing that doesn't make sense" or whatever.

How many lightsabers does Palps have? He had at least 2. His first was knocked out of the window by Mace and later he magically has another while foghting Yoda.

Devo
09-07-2005, 05:37 PM
I loved the blue on blue fight and wouldn't change the colors for anything.

While some simple minded viewers might ask why he isn't using a red one, instead I appreciate the significance of Obi-Wan giving Luke the saber he pulled off of his old man after fighting him. Powerful.

Thats a good point. However I still agree with the OP that it made it difficult to see what was going on during the fight and therefore, IMO, rendered the duel inferior to the TPM threeway for visual spectacle.

2-1B
09-08-2005, 01:33 AM
Okay, I read my post from 12 hours ago and that sounds kind of harsh, I didn't mean "simple minded" about anybody here and not really in a down-putting way. Just to clear that up. :)

What I was getting at is that yes, I understand why there might be the initial reaction of "why isn't it Red?" and I DO think that's a valid question . . . but from what I saw in the movie, things were moving pretty quickly and Anakin didn't really have "time" to sit down and make a red one. I'm thinking of Vader in RotJ when he tells Luke, "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber."

So,
Anakin lost his saber after a duel with Ben
Luke lost Anakin's saber after a duel with Vader/Anakin
Following that duel, Luke constructed a new lightsaber which he used against Vader/Anakin
Following Anakin's duel with Ben, he constructed a new lightsaber which he used against Ben 20 years later.

Talk about parallels ! lol lol lol

seanmcfripp
09-08-2005, 09:56 AM
Okay, I read my post from 12 hours ago and that sounds kind of harsh, I didn't mean "simple minded" about anybody here and not really in a down-putting way. Just to clear that up. :)

Too late! You called my wife and mother simple minded! Them's fightin' words. You know the drill: I'll be out in the parking lot so we can settle this like boys. :evil:

I'm kidding of course.

When I've brought this whole thing up before, most people say the same thing: "How else would Obi-Wan have gotten Anakin's saber to give to Luke in ANH?". It's certainly a valid question, but I've always thought there are million ways to write these things into a movie. I look at it the other way: doesn't it seem weird that Obi-wan just picks up Ani's saber for no apparent reason? I mean, we know he picks it up because he has to give it to Luke in ANH, but why does the character pick it up? What are Obi-wan's motivations? The Jedi aren't trophy takers, nor do they keep any possessions of the sort. I guess he could have picked it up to make sure that Ani didn't crawl up and retrieve it for one last attempt to fight, but Obi could have just kicked it in the lava. I dunno, the picking up the saber scene just seemed kinda forced to me. Everyone look at Obi-wan pick up the saber. Remember this when you watch the next movie.

I know Lucas tried to throw a little Le Morte Darthur into SW, so I always thought it would have been cool if Padme sort of ended up with it (like Gwenevere) and kept it safe until she met up with Obi-wan. Anakin could have officially renounced his Jedi loyalties by laying down his Jedi weapon and taking up a weapon of the Sith. Maybe Ani could have left if with Padme during the scene before he leaves for Mustafar (I don't know why he would do it, but I'm sure it could have been written logically). Then later, when Obi-wan comes to visit her and tell her that Anakin has gone dark side, she puts 2 and 2 together and shows Obi-wan that Anakin has left his saber with her and gives it to him, thinking maybe it be better for Obi-wan to have it (then she goes on to cry because her husband is evil, blah blah blah). I dunno, something like that, only better than what I've described.

It just seems like the lightsaber passing scene in ANH is very deliberate and somewhat important. There should have been more done in ROTS to set that scene up.

2-1B
09-08-2005, 12:29 PM
Too late! You called my wife and mother simple minded! Them's fightin' words. You know the drill: I'll be out in the parking lot so we can settle this like boys. :evil:

In that case then, would somebody please hand me my mouthguard and boxing gloves ? :D

Well, Obi-Wan did already know that Padme was pregnant and that a good number of Jedi had been killed. Some long term planning never hurt.

But really I think it's just as simple as Obi-Wan taking a remembrance of his dead friend. In our real world, I've lost some friends/family and keep a few of their personal belongings. It just didn't feel forced to me. :)

I don't think he took it to keep Anakin from getting it back. I doubt that Obi-Wan expected anything other than death from the carnage he saw on the riverbank. :(

JimJamBonds
09-08-2005, 01:04 PM
So,
Anakin lost his saber after a duel with Ben
Luke lost Anakin's saber after a duel with Vader/Anakin
Following that duel, Luke constructed a new lightsaber which he used against Vader/Anakin
Following Anakin's duel with Ben, he constructed a new lightsaber which he used against Ben 20 years later.

Talk about parallels ! lol lol lol

Didn't Luuke fight Luke with Anner's old saber? How could you leave that one out? :laugh: